Town Council - Regular Meeting

Oh, oh, oh, oh. I think it's Frank. Come join us, Molly. We're live. You're live and in color. Okay I'm gonna call this meeting to order This is the meeting of the town of Bay Harbor Islands our regular council meeting today is October 14th and

It is 7.02 PM. And we will begin with the Pledge of Allegiance. And we have a special guest to do that for us. We have Esther Butler. Esther Butler is in fourth grade. She's a nine-year resident of Bay Harbor Islands, which I presume is the majority of her life. Her favorite TV shows are Victorious. And her favorite music group was just here in concert, right? Cat's Eye, did you go? OK. And her hobby is gymnastics. And she's a very, very good athlete with lights out speed. The Miami Dolphins can use you.

Thank you so much. Okay, the first item is the special presentation. You need to read something or am I handling this? All right, the first item on the agenda is a designation. We did a proclamation, actually, in memory of October 7, the Day of Remembrance. And we have a proclamation that just recognizes that on October 7, there was an incredible tragedy in the Middle East, in Israel, and that there were a lot of, it was a tragic day and there was a lot of death. So in remembrance of that, we have this proclamation that we are going to send to our sister city in the land of Israel to show them

I wanted to defer the item for the unsolicited for town hall. We are going to have, hopefully, one of our retreats in which we'll have many discussions about what we're thinking and what we're doing. I did talk to them. They did say this is the first step. But after thinking about it, I really think that we need to figure out what we want and what we want to do and not waste their time. I do appreciate them coming in. But I would like to defer until after our retreat.

I mean, I don't mind the deferral, but you know, we keep pushing these things back. I mean, if we're talking about, I mean, I know November, forget it's too crazy. I don't, you know, and I don't know what December plans there are, but. We've been without a permanent town hall for an extended period of time now. If we want to do it the right way, I get it.

We need to start moving on the concept and what, where, and how. I mean, the manager, I've talked to him about a couple different concepts. But we, as a council, we need to give the directions. And we need to, among ourselves, come to the conclusion of what it is that we want, where we want it, and how we want it, and the finances behind it. and what we have and what we're willing to do and what we're not willing to do before we listen to a presentation that I'm sure is going to be wonderful. I know they're amazing people, but I think that we have to first, in our mind, have some idea. And we

I think it's going to take several discussions. It's not just going to be one. Well, yeah.

But I mean, the concept and the idea, we have to do it at a retreat where we have it.

I don't think we'll necessarily come to it at the retreat, but sure. I mean, it could be part of the discussion as well. And I even told the gentleman from choir, I said, I can't promise you this will be the only time you'll be presenting to us because I'm sure they'll be coming back here and tweaking and coming back again and again until we have a final idea.

Right, but we need to have a idea or a couple ideas to even, for me to listen to a presentation and not have any idea what this council and what direction we're going in is, is a, yes.

But I think, can I just, I just, I don't disagree with what Eric said or the Vice Mayor said. If we do have a retreat in January, I don't want to rush anybody into decisions, but I think we need to come to a general concept at that time, at least for the majority of us, so that we can move on. Because if we have a retreat in January, and we talk about it, and we come back in February, these things just go on and on and on.

If we defer to January to our retreat, then we're giving up three more chances now, October, November, December, to talk about it. Well, we don't have a meeting in December.

We don't have a meeting in December or November between Thanksgiving and National League of Cities and other things like that. It's just it's not going to work out to do it in November.

I'm all in favor of doing the retreat. I've been advocating for that for a while, that we sit down and we all have a conversation and figure out exactly what we want. how we want it, what we want to design, where the location is, whatever everybody wants to put out. And it definitely has to happen at a retreat rather than at one of these council meetings, because we'll be here till 4 in the morning. But that being said, I will say a couple things. One, I agree with Bob, though, that wherever we do it, it's got to be one meeting to get the general concept out there. Because my worry still remai

I was going to say, why don't we decide today if we want to go out for an RFP, or if you even want to hear this proposal, or if you want it to come back a different time once we have several proposals in front of us. That's the assumption, that everyone wants to go out for an RFP.

I have two things to add here. One of them is that the actual agenda item, the way it's written, kind of points to one proposal. Hey, discuss some possible action regarding an unsolicited proposal. partnership to construct a governmental complex. And then this was presented as a proposal, not so much as a concept, hey, do we want to adopt a procedure under which we either do an RFP or we elicit proposals on a non-RFP basis like the attorney has suggested in previous meetings, not necessarily relating to this, but to other things. It wasn't really written like that. And the way the agenda reads

This is neither one of those. We're going record saying that.

All you have to do is lean to the left and ask it.

So we can't use this proposal as a pathway to elicit other proposals?

OK, we understand we can't award the project right now.

Hold on. Why don't we find out if we're doing it? I think that's the key thing right now. It's whether it's deferred. We're not actually on the item. Well, you guys started the discussion. The question is whether we want to defer or not. That's all I said. Yeah, so let's deal with that first. I don't think they need to defer it.

Mr. Manager, did you say that you wanted to defer this item?

OK, so now I go back to the attorney. This is under the deferments and new agenda items and stuff like that. Can the council make a motion to either defer or not to accept the deferral?

What were the options? Let's go back from the options that we were talking about.

You can always, I guess number four is accept.

Is that like the same thing as number two? You have to advertise it.

OK. So at this point, I'd like to take a straw poll type of thing. Who supports leaving it on the agenda and discussing it, or just deferring it completely? And I'll start with the lucky man on the end.

I support discussing it, but kind of slicing it down, not the entire item, but just kind of getting to the meat of it, what we preliminarily might want to do, and then decide that we want to do an R. So you're voting not to pull? Yeah, not to pull it.

Correct. I'd like to do that. Thank you. OK. You know I want to pull it. Right, right, you do it.

OK. Not to pull. Not to pull. Not to pull.

All right, so that's it. You have a majority not to pull, so. That's fine. Oh, sorry. That's not pulled. OK, you can. All right, guys. You didn't waste the trip completely. What else was deferred?

Hearing none. 12.1. If anybody's here for that, sorry.

All right. All right, wonderful. If there are no other future agenda items or anything like that, let's go to town manager's report, please.

Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Manager. We'll start with Elhanan to take council reports.

Yes. So good evening, everyone. I have just a couple of items. So first of all, I wanted to give some feedback that I received from the community regarding the past plan that was passed, I guess, at the last meeting. The constituents were very appreciative of the reduction in the rate. So I think that that was a job well done. And I know that you were even able, I think, to do some retroactive work regarding that. So that's very much appreciated. And obviously, we'll monitor it going forward. I was excited to participate as I'm a newbie in my first budget process, which I have to say went smoo

Bob? Good evening, everyone. Good to see you all. So I had the opportunity to walk through the park on Monday morning, the tot lot in West Broadview Drive. And I want to congratulate Adrian, our manager, and all of the staff who were involved in refurbishing the park. I think it's excellent. The equipment is really great because it's age appropriate for the little kids. But we've retained the equipment in the front of the park for the older kids, the landscaping, the new water fountain, the canopies overhead, which provide shelter, so to speak, from the sun. And I will say it's excellent. And

I was also at the Florida League of Cities conference for the policy committee. I serve on the growth management, or they keep changing the name. It's growth management, development, and so forth. Depending on what week you're there, they change the name. But that being said, I want to echo a lot of what Bob said there. It is essential. Look, this city provides services to residents. That's what we're here for. We're here because we're responsive, because if something happens, something you need, anything whatsoever, you pick up a phone, you walk over to any of the officers, you walk into anyb

Thanks. I think I forgot one important event. I wanted to thank the chief of police and the police officers who attended or put on the Coffee with a Cop one the other morning over at the coffee break. It was extremely well attended. And if our police department does that again, which I hope that they will, all of you here, attend it. Because it's a great event. Besides the fact that there's coffee and food and so forth, you had the opportunity to talk to our police officers and get to meet them, and for them to get to meet you as well. So it was an excellent event. And I thank you very much fo

CHRISTOPHER GRIFFIN- Hi. Good evening, everyone. I'm going to read some of my notes here. Hope everyone had a Shana Tova for all those who celebrated. I also attended the September 11th commemoration. It was a fantastic event. I really want to thank the police department, our communications director, and everyone who was involved in putting it together. It was a really special, really special event, and I appreciate it. I did have a chance to tour one of the buildings in town at the request of a resident, something that's going to be on the agenda coming up. I want to thank the chief and the t

Thank you. I also want to remind everybody, November 3rd is an extremely important election. Either way you vote, it's your civic duty to do it. And on top of that, I've told my kids, you can't mm if you don't vote. So. I'm not even going to think about what the film is. So, you know, especially to the younger people who, you know, they don't come out and vote. And so I will encourage everybody to come out and vote. I do want to thank Joel and his program, who is up for a, did you win it or are you up for the award? He's up for the work. The Children's Trust program is an extremely important,

A couple of things. I, too, went to the September 11th commemoration, which was definitely over the top. It was an incredibly professional event. I think Arlene Borenstein, our communications director, had her fingerprints all over it. And it showed. And I want to thank the town manager, his staff. I want to thank the police chief and his staff that created a very moving ceremony. It got right to the point. A little bit of a glitch with the star spangled banner or whatever it was. I'm just entering into the space that you guys set up. It was just incredibly professional and welcoming. And it j

I see no committee reports. So we will go to public comment. Thank you. Judy Martinez. Cindy, three minutes, right?

Congratulations. Take a deep breath, relax.

Well, I just made you a Cuban Jew. That's all right.

Well, you have three minutes to talk about whatever you want. OK.

If there's a second reading, you can speak. If it's not a second reading, there's no additional.

Which one would you want to speak about, is the question.

Thank you. OK. Thank you, Ms. Newhart. Carlos, can you do me a favor and just address the issue of who signs the minutes and when they sign? And there was no second signing of the minutes.

It's whoever's in office at the time when it's ratified signs it. It's as simple as that, Ms. Newhut. I want to say one thing, because if I can, real quick. Ms. Newhut, just think of it this way. Even if everything is signed immediately, the fact is somebody's term always ends. If we have minutes for the meeting on the last meeting of somebody as mayor, they get ratified. Even if they get ratified the next month, The old mayor doesn't sign the new minutes. It's whoever is in office at that time. It's as simple as that.

And can you confirm, Mr. Town Attorney, that that is entirely appropriate and there's nothing illegal about that, which is what this resident claims?

We had an issue with some of the old minutes, and we had to catch up. We're all caught up.

Do you want to help me? Yeah, I want to see it. Victoria Diaz, please.

Thank you, Ms. Diaz. Thank you. Just for the record, Tony? Do you know how much the annual pass cost last year?

And how much did it cost five years ago?

So I'm not sure exactly what the campaign is to reduce it now, but it has been absolutely the same for more than two decades.

And I've been complaining about it the whole time. It was 300 about four years ago or something. But still, it hasn't changed much.

You know what? it will take it into consideration, your comments. It's valuable to us.

That did just pass. It was proposed by Al-Khanan. And it was unanimously accepted by the entire council that, just like in Miami Beach a few years ago, they had a budget surplus. And they sent everybody checks back. from their real estate taxes. So we felt that the bridge had adequate cash flow at the time. And the council decided to reduce the toll for Bay Harbor residents.

Can I just say something? My daughter lives in Surfside. So she gets certain privileges in Surfside that are only for Surfside residents, like parking at CVS and the pool. I mean, there are benefits to living in each one of the towns. Leaving it at $350 that's been like that for the last four or five years and not raising it is a benefit to the 33154. It needs to be reciprocal, but it's not. Exactly. And so if you're asking us, and I understand, believe me, my daughter reminds me.

She's speaking for herself, by the way. I am. She's one of seven, so.

Right. But I have no, I mean, we are Bay Harbor. I understand.

No, I understand 100%. But let me just say, I agree. The issue is, look, I think we made it clear last time. We're open to having discussions with the other municipalities. But there has to be some benefit also back to Bay Harbor. Because one thing what everybody has to realize is we take these funds in for a reason. They're for the maintenance of the bridge. What's not being said in Surfside is that we also passed the ability for us to issue bonds for the replacement of the bridge. Those bonds will get paid for by Bay Harbor residents, by the tolls and everything else. It falls on us to do th

Just for your information, I'm not sure you've heard the recordings or watched the meetings or read the minutes. But there was discussion on this council eliminate the neighboring communities completely from the Bay Pass annual fee. I mean, eliminate them so they pay retail. And how much is retail?

$3.25 for two axles. Per trip. Per trip.

So the $3.50? $3.50 a year Bay Pass was a compromised position. Because I advocated for equal treatment to everybody in 33154. And I feel the same way you do.

It's not the size of the bridge. It's the motion of the ocean.

And also understand, I mean, I walked away for a moment. But I mean, the cost of replacing that bridge, which we're working on, is hundreds of millions of dollars. So we have a financial responsibility to make sure that we're putting away money so that when this new bridge replacement project commences in a couple of years or several years from now, we're able to fund that. I mean, we're looking for all types of financing from the state and federal government and county and so forth. As the mayor said, I mean, we've had discussions and we're probably going to continue discussions about the rat

Thanks, Ms. Diaz. Thank you. Norma Orovitz, can you state your name and your address, please? Yes.

Those guys aren't fetching about $1,000 a year total.

Norma, we want to thank you from the bottom of our hearts. I mean, I didn't even realize the part that you, the role that you played as far as the newsletter is concerned, and we're grateful for that. I know, for one thing, I did sit down with the manager, who was nice enough to share all your thoughts, all your ideas, and the results of the research that you guys did. And I think it was phenomenal. And we're moving on it. And we're grateful for citizens like you.

Abram Zanis. I would get the names better, but the handwriting is not really that great. And you know I got Avraham, right? Yeah, yeah, sorry. Say your name and address for the record, please.

If they get the certificate of occupancy before 1231, then that helps us financially?

So... What's the difference between the well and the...

You mean the office is not the first floor?

Just so you're aware, the town's been, we're going to continue to be very open to giving the additional hours. We want you there. We want to welcome you into the community. Obviously, you live in the community, too, as well. But we want to make sure the business is welcome, as well. It's just a matter of, I guess, coordinating right now. Because like the manager said, there was a time period for the extended hours. It expired. Doesn't mean it can't be renewed. It just has to be discussed first.

Rhys Dopa. Thank you. I'm all tied up here. You asked for it.

You're welcome. Just for informational purposes, not too long ago, I received a postcard or something in the mail from the United States Postal Service stating the fact that the Surfside post office had closed. And they're looking to relocate a post office to Bay Harbor Islands. They're going through whatever process the federal government goes through, seeking comment and whatever. So I know they're looking to be here somewhere in Bay Harbor Islands, but it's the federal government. And so they've got a process.

Watch the cables. No, the cable's on the floor.

Wait one second. We'll let you start over. We can't hear because we can't. We start the three minutes, please. Sorry.

Start over again, please. Start over, please. You have extra time.

There was a couple of other people that signed up, but for specific items.

But then they still have to speak now unless it's .

Yeah. Sarah? Go see her? Is she still here? It's definitely, oh, no, this is Sarah. She just spoke. I think she spoke already.

Is there anyone else that has public comment? Anyone else for public comment? OK. Public comment is closed. Next item.

OK, yeah. All right, the Consent Agenda's items that are typically administrative at best. Are there any items that need to be pulled? Any comments or questions on the items under the Consent Agenda? Do we need a poll vote, Madam Polk?

For consent. You've got $114,000 expenditure.

Is there a motion? I'll move it. Second. It's been moved and seconded. Let me just take, there's one public comment. Fran Newhut? Item 12.2.

Thank you. OK. Is there any comment from the council? There's nobody online, right?

And is there a second? It was a tie for moving it. I think Bob came in first by a hair. Do you want a second? OK. So it's been moved and seconded. I have a couple of comments that I want to make on this, because I know that in the recent past, we've experienced king tide. And let me tell you, I've been here on the island since 1993 and it's only been in the past, I would say decade, that I've actually seen the tidal surge come up when the weather is absolutely gorgeous outside and just water starts coming up through the drains. And I had never seen that before. And I know that there are some f

Can you, Randy, do me a favor. I love what you're doing. And don't be insulted by my lack of attention span for your brilliance. But can you put in a few sentences, to a layman, or let's say to a fifth grader, what this means, which my intellect is at the level. Exactly. Are these any changes that we're going to approve here, or the effects of what we're going to approve, and the side effects, which could be good, hopefully, from these changes that we're making? And how would it affect the residents?

One second. The way that we build will be different, the height that is required on the new map, yes? OK. Are we going to get better insurance because we're updating?

Cheaper insurance. I don't even want to know better. Just cheaper.

Less expensive insurance because we're updating the map and we're going to be able to access insurance. Yes.

But that's what I'm saying. We wouldn't have access.

But when do we anticipate that that might occur?

Right after New Year insurance in the old days. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Randy. OK, this is step one. Step one or step two? I choose two. OK, are there any other questions on this item? Please, no.

I apologize for that. OK, call the vote, please.

4. Motion carries. So basically, we voted for an increase in insurance rates. Oh, goodness. Protect us. Protect us. Randy, we were depending on you. OK. It passes unanimously. Thank you. Next item.

Is there a motion? I'll move it. Second. It's been moved and seconded. Mayor?

Yes, sir. So I had asked for quite this comprehensive, but I appreciate it. And I know that the town planner doesn't appear to be here this evening. But the reason that I asked for this ordinance was because Every time it rains, like even a light rain, a little palm frond hits a wire and the power goes on and it goes off. Sometimes like a dozen times and fries your utilities and everything else. So my concern was royal palms and other large trees growing up into our power lines and the ability, one, to restrict in the future where trees can be planted, the proximity to the power lines. But I'm

No, I agree with that. I just want to make sure there are enforcement procedures in there so that we could, if necessary, compel property owners to remove trees if they are growing into the power lines.

I just want to make sure there's something in there. That's all.

Bob, let me ask you a question. And this is not a trick question. It's just a memory question. Remember when JC was the manager, there was a point where we just compelled every single property on the West Island to have an inspection of their backyard, particularly along where the cables are, and then just They were noticed that there was an inspection, and they were noticed if there was a tree that was possibly touching or too close to the power lines. So what did we do? What was our procedure then?

I think I remember it was, I don't know whether it was FPL inspecting or somebody else inspecting. I remember there were door hangers on your doors letting you know that somebody was coming to inspect. And I think at that time, they did You know, trim. Talk about memory. I mean, when I first moved to Bay Harbor, there were all these like palm trees growing in my backyard. They weren't like royal palms, but they were smaller palms which grew high. And one day we came home and they were all gone. And I was a little annoyed about it, but then I realized why they were gone was because they were gr

Right. Because I remember them, you know, the ass blue trucks, they would go around the perimeter regularly. Yes. But the interior locks, not.

They're still going around the exterior. Right. But I can answer your question. Please. No, I remember when this happened. But there was two faults. There was one because we were pushing FPL hard because they hadn't done any maintenance for a while. Right. And then on top of that, FPL had decided it was time to do an evaluation of the poles. So they coordinated the inspection going into everybody's backyard, because they were seeing if it was time to replace certain poles, or strengthen, or whatever they wanted to do at the time. And they coordinated that with looking at and saying, OK, well,

But now that was a very important fact that you put into this fact pattern, because it was kind of an end run to compel FPL, not the homeowners, because they were going around. inspecting wooden poles that were leaning or just looked dangerous.

We had gotten into a fight with them at the time. Ron had pushed hard at the time to make sure FPL was going ahead and doing that. But that was the issue. And they did two and one during the inspection of the poles.

Right, right, right. So what can be done now to really kind of fast track the enforcement of trees that are violative of the easement and too close to the power lines? You know, I empathize and sympathize and relate to what Councilman Yaffe goes through, because I was on his grid as well. And it was almost like we were living in a third world country, the number of power failures we had per month, not per quarter. Right.

And just for informational purposes, I mean, the grids in this town are really strange. You know, I'm on a grid with like, I don't know, 30 homes. So my power will go out, and the people across the street, they've got power. It just depends on your grids. And if this ordinance has enforcement mechanisms in it so that if trees were affecting power lines, we can cite the property owner. you know, necessarily the property owner will then have to either get the tree removed or .

Is there any way that we can, and this is for you, Lindsley, is there any way that we can engage Chelsea Lund in just at least a campaign to inspect all the grids on the West Island and possibly on the East Island as well. I'm not sure. I think the power lines are more on the front rather than the back.

And if possible, we can get them to underwrite the cutting back of the trees, whether it be removal of trees or severe and high impact trimming of the trees.

They'll do that. They're still doing it, but they're doing it on a limited basis. And actually, it's probably a good time to start hitting them. Can we talk to them now? Because they really, they get booked during the beginning of hurricane season. Now we're near the end of hurricane season. Now it's a slower season. It's a little easier on them.

Just wanted to ask, you know, a quick run through of the entire ordinance. I see that there are height requirements for the trees. Is there any setback requirement from the power lines? I don't really see that.

OK. Because a lot of people don't realize you're doing landscaping, you plant this nice tree, and it's a reasonable height. And then five years later, it's like, you know, it's brushing against the power lines. It's touching the power lines.

And that's incredibly dangerous. I've seen palm fronds, you know, not just hanging with the arcs. They were arcing with the power lines.

Right. And that's what we've experienced because of the power going on and on and on and off.

Do we have an initial requirement to trim rather than to remove? If it could be trimmed and comply with the setback that it doesn't have to be removed entirely? The tree won't have to be removed?

I think if it's too close to the power line, because they grow so quickly, some of these trees, that it becomes a constant maintenance issue. So in the future, we need to be really careful about where trees are permitted to be planted.

All right. It's been moved and seconded. Poll vote, please.

OK. You know what? Since we're doing, since we elected to put 15.1 onto the agenda. I'm going to take that out of order because the guys are here for that. So we'll have discussion on that before, you know, we'll take that 15.1 out of order.

I'll move it because we have to discuss. We have to motion. I'll move it with that recommendation. But it's published for 30 days as far as publication.

Okay, so he said 30 days. Um, So do you second that for 30 days? Is that what you had in mind, like a 30-day window to solicit other proposals?

So we received, just so everybody knows, if we put it out for 30 days, there's an evaluation period.

Right. The retreat is not my concern right now. My concern is making sure that we give ample time to folks across the city, across the state, even across the country to come and solicit us for their proposals as well. I mean, I think 30 days might be a little short. The vice mayor just mentioned that there are holidays in between whenever we get to the holidays.

Just a little more time for the holidays and so forth.

OK, I think 45 is a good compromise. Ezzie, do you? Yeah, I concur with that. OK, do I have to take a motion for the amended motion?

You can make it 60 days if it's in December.

And then December, we don't have a meeting.

No, but we still have to have time. They have to send it out. It's not 45 days from today anyway. Right.

All right. So you second the 45 days? Yeah. OK. Now, getting back to, I guess, the discussion we had prior to really getting into the meat of the agenda, Carlos, you planted some seeds of doubt in our minds. I think the manager reminded us that we have P3 counsel. And manager, can you confirm to us that everything that is in our agenda kit relating to this item

All right. So I don't think there's going to be a lot of discussion on this at this point. But it's been moved and seconded. I don't have any comments myself. Are there any comments from the council regarding moving forward? OK. As far as more in detail? No, I think this is more of a procedural approval.

OK, great. So now at least we have a process, guys.

It's all tied in. So I'll make the motion. I made the motion. So you can second it.

For 45 days, right. OK. So there's been a motion and a second for the 45-day advertisement window. All those in favor, say aye.

And with the caveat that everything is compliant with local, state, and federal law. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? It passes unanimously.

And thank you for allowing us to torture you for about an hour. We're just glad you got it. You can stay for the rest of the meeting if you want. Yeah, yeah. Did everyone have a chance to look through this?

Yeah. I haven't met with them individually.

It's definitely a step in the right direction. And I appreciate all of you. You've sent a nice, handsome bunch of guys, and we appreciate it.

I have a question, which is the logo, BHI. I mean, that's Bay Harbor Islands. I mean, are we getting any fee from that? That could be negotiated. Technically, you'd read the bottom part. Civic Infrastructure Partners. Got it. Got it. You had it.

We thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you. OK.

I think the trees and their logo go over the .

All right. So back to the proper order of the next item.

I'll move it. Is there a second? I'll second. All right. It's been moved and seconded. Eric, do you want to make some introductory comments?

I think all of you know by now that this resident reached out to us. Your microphone. Sorry.

A resident reached out to us and asked us to come by and look at the situation with their parking. For the most part, I think we're used to buildings being completely demolished and rebuilt. And so there are no residents to worry about. But when a building is going through a renovation process, the people who are there are subject to everything that's going on. And so this particular building, A lot of the outdoor parking was being taken up by construction equipment during the day. It's actually not leaving at night. And also debris falling from two building sites on either side of this buildi

I have a question, I guess, to the attorney. Because this is a condo. Yeah. So because it's a condo, and you, Bob, would know, isn't it the responsibility of the condo board when they're going to do something to talk to their residents and to facilitate for them? Instead of each person coming to the town, isn't it the responsibility of the condo board to be able to come and work with the tenants of their?

So if I lived in a condo and they're going to do construction, so they're going to be required, the condo commandos or whatever you want to call them. I'd rather call them condo commandos. They're required to put a plan together with this ordinance go to the town and help facilitate them finding parking for them? And who is required to pay? Is it the individual, or is it the condo board's responsibility to help financially? In other words, who's going to be responsible for that?

And the permitting party is the condo association.

I just want to make sure. I went through this in Miami.

Well, it's up to the HOA if they want to, for whatever reason, charge the resident. They have to come up with a parking plan. Yeah, I will say this.

I think this is a good ordinance. I do think what it does, I think it clarifies certain things. I've had conversations with the manager about it. Because I do think we do have another way to enforce, but I think this actually makes it better. Because the fact of the matter is, You know, realistically, when a condo comes in or a apartment building, whatever it is, they are required. They have certain parking requirements that we have already. Now, the moment they remove them, they're now in violation. And they can go ahead and cite them for the lack of the parking. They can't just shove it out

I have a question. We know the nexus, the property that affected a couple of- individuals who were basically told by the HOA that your parking space that you have been using for the past several months or a year or whatever it has been is now being occupied by construction vehicles and that you're on your own. We present no alternative for you. Just go find parking for your vehicle. And the question is, when An HOA comes with plans for a renovation. Is part of the application process relating to the town like a timeline, the length of the project? Because I think in this case, the project was

But we'll know if it's a minimum. If it's beyond seven days, we'll know it.

Well, maybe we should incorporate somewhere in the application, is this renovation going to remove normal or is going to affect your number of parking spots? And then that would trigger this ordinance. Just ask them, hey, you're going to be occupying people's spots or guest spots or whatever it might be with equipment.

Right, so maybe on the application. Right, I think it should be written and signed under penalties of perjury or whatever. Does this application going to require a parking plan?

No. Yeah, I think that's it. Actually, I have a question for the town attorney. This ordinance is written, and tell me if I'm wrong, but it kind of plates the concept where the parking spot's owned by the HOA when it's a common area. There are times when a condo actually deeds out the individual unit spaces to an owner. How will that operate in that case? Because it changes. Now you've got a different scenario for purposes of permit. You said it triggers by permit. How would this operate in that instance? What was the question?

Well, in other words, what I'm saying is most condominiums these days assign parking spaces, and they are appurtenances to the unit. They go with the unit. So when you sell your unit, that parking space goes with the unit. So if you're doing construction work and you say to me, you can no longer use your pertinent parking space, then the association has got to make some type of accommodation. I mean, there's limited room. If there are no common element parking spaces where they can move me on a temporary basis, I think this ordinance addresses that you have to provide some type of substitute p

And also the issue becomes sometimes, it's not common, but there are times when you get spots also deeded out. These are detailed.

First of all, this is on first reading, so we don't have to get this deep into the weeds. But if it does pass on second reading, it might be a good idea to create a very short white paper or a memo that goes to all the condominiums that are in on Bay Harbor Islands that say, hey, look, we have a new ordinance that talks about parking plans when you're under construction. And just this way, at least they know and we've told them. It seems like we're all on the same page at this point. So if there are no other questions or comments, we'll take a poll vote, please.

Is there a motion? Is there a second? OK, it's been moved and seconded.

I have a question. This is for multifamily and single family? This applies to single family residents as well? I mean, I talked to the manager about that. I had some concerns about that. I mean, it's one thing in a building, but I mean, I understand. Listen, this is for public safety. If there's some type of incident in fire rescue or police need to approach from the waterfront, they need to know where they're going. So I understand the purpose of it. I wasn't sure that it should apply to single family homes, but you know, whatever the consensus is.

Yeah, I think it's all along the seawall. Now, I mean, my thought is that, you know, as beautiful as this is, um, you know, I think in order to fulfill this purpose that just a stencil that the town is responsible for doing just, you know, spray, you know, spray the stencil on.

That would be it. That's right. That was actually my issue. I'm actually the opposite. I think safety is paramount, but aesthetics do matter. And the idea of spray painting the sides of the sea walls. I can tell you right now, I'm sure some of the residents aren't going to be happy not to mention that. It's not visible at night, and it will fade away between sun and seawater. I also have a problem.

Just for the record, we stencil our parking spots. We stencil everywhere. I'm not saying I love that.

But the other thing also at the same time, there's another factor here is also the other option, the way it's written, it also says it can be secured up against the seawall. I don't think anybody's going to want to start screwing anything into their seawall either. So it leaves us really only option three, which means they've got to put signs that are going essentially put into their backyard facing out to the outside. I'm torn on this one, because there is a safety. The chief and I spoke about it. There is a safety advantage. And I think there's also a safety disadvantage, because now, if som

That was my concern about the single-family homes as opposed to the multi-family, the apartment buildings and condos and so forth. But in terms of the signage itself, I mean, if you walk the beach path in Val Harbor and Surfside, you see they have standard signs on the beach path so that you know it's the Val Harbor Tower or whatever. whatever condo it is, so that if you're coming from the beach path side as opposed to the front, you know what building it is. Yeah. That was my concern as well.

I mean, as far as safety goes, it's reflective. So it's not like an LED. You don't see it lit up. You have to look for it. You have to know where it is exactly along the seawall. But if you make a metal sign like this that has strong glue on the back, it can just go right on the seawall. drill it in or anything like that. And they don't have to have a big sign in their backyard or something. I'm not sure how well that stays.

Right, exactly. How are you going to fix it to the very strong adhesive that goes to the metal side?

I'd be more inclined. I mean, look, I'm still torn on this one. But I'm more inclined, because this is only a four-inch letter. It's going to be hard to see anyways unless someone's up close. But I do see the benefit, obviously, if somebody, the chief made a very good point to me that our officers generally are going to know where they are. But if there's a neighboring police force that comes over and wants to find somebody on the island, I think it's easier for them to find. Part of me is thinking this should just be something that's voluntary for the single family homes. The multifamily, may

I'm not loving it, but I'm not hating it. I can tell you sometimes, the fire department, when they're looking for a house, they don't necessarily, you can't see the address, even on the street. And so you'll see fire trucks sometimes make a right, make a left. They don't know themselves where they're going until they find where they're going to. So anything that puts the number out there and makes it clearer would be definitely welcome, for sure.

Yeah, and I don't think we should create two separate populations. This is addresses along a seawall. I know that the issues that come along with private homes.

First of all, what is the funding relating to this? How much do these things cost, and who's going to pay for it?

Right. And do we pass this through to the homeowners? It's robbery. $40. Yes, yes, yes.

But let me ask you one thing. So an installation goes to whom?

Who's going to actually install? We should do the installation.

Well, but there's a liability issue there, too. We've got to be careful not to have to do it. But we have to do it in a certain way to limit liability, because you don't want to have a scenario where someone places it on something, either damages it or puts it in an area that's going to be obstructed.

No, I would do it again. The problem is if you're not, if you're leaving it up to the homeowners, half the people aren't going to do it.

Right, exactly. I would do it in reverse. I would say, we are doing this on your home or on your condominium. And anybody that insists on doing it themselves.

You have a certain period of time in which to do it and get it done.

Right. But you must use this. Okay. All right. Period. Because there's got to be some uniformity, even though you see walls.

You'll never have everybody doing it. Jing, jing, jang, zing, zang.

So let me just ask you. So you guys moved it, but are you moving it as is or moving it just specifically with this sign that's going to be affixed with an epoxy?

Right. By the town passing through the cost of the sign. And unless it's specifically requested to be- By the homeowner. By the homeowner, yeah. Or the HOI, whatever. Right, exactly.

Is the sign just the blue portion or the background?

No, it'll be custom made, right? It's just the blue portion.

Just the blue, that's what I'm asking, just the blue portion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just the blue. Yeah, this is just for contrast. Okay.

But I'd like to have it that when you're deciding where specifically to put it on, the location, that you have an officer with you that the police department is there to actually make the determination. Yes. As far as. Yes. That's how we. Well, I'm saying not the building department. I'm just saying. Yes, absolutely.

No, no, I'm just saying, but I don't even want it just to stand by itself because the issue is if something ever happens and they come back and there's a liability question, I want us to be able to say, you know, police officers chose it here specifically for this was the highest safety. Yes. safest area. That's what I want to know.

Madam Clerk, can you mark this? He was wrong.

Yeah, he actually said he didn't make it. The maker of the motion needs to accept the amendments. I don't think we need a poll vote for this. The winner, I just want to move.

Just to clarify, is? OK, so yeah. I made the motion for the previous ordinance. I accept the amendment to the motion to include that we will only use

this design and that the town will facilitate and put in place on the seawall unless the resident decides that they need to do it and they only have a certain amount of time, 30 days after. And it will be with the epoxy. And it will be a pass-through to the condominium association or property owner who seconded it.

Who seconded Evelyn? Council member Rotten. I agree to the amendment. OK. All right. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? It passes unanimously. Not yet. OK. 15.2.

Discussion and possible action designating residential parking spaces.

I'm going to presume that this is in response to the work that you did with Norma. Is that correct? OK. Let me see. First of all, is there a motion and a second? I'll move it.

We're in the middle of another item at the moment.

Right. Yeah, we're in the middle of an item. Is there any questions on the council? About what? About 515.2? Nope.

Jordan, we're done with that. We're already done with that, so thank you. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? It passes unanimously. Next item. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for your hard work.

I think for the record, we should mention that we are moving to appoint Hilary Frankel to the Parks and Rec Committee. Good point.

So we're discussing it. OK, there's one application. Well, actually, there's one application, and it's Hilary Frankel. She really wants it. She applied twice. I was going to say, she really wants it. OK, is there any question or comment? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any opposed? It passes unanimously. I'm sorry.

Town manager, when we had our briefing, we discussed something about the porta-potties being off the street by a certain number. Yes.

Thank goodness. Thank you, Eric. Yeah, thank you. OK, item number 15-4.

Oh, you got it. You have it. No, no. Bob, it's your turn. I'll second.

All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any against? It passes unanimously. Next item, please.

Is there a second? Second. OK. It's been moved and seconded. Did you have a question, Madam Vice Mayor?

Yes. So I don't have a problem with giving homeowners specifically, not developers, homeowners the ability to put in impact windows and doors. I do have a problem. with developers getting a free ride, so to say, on the back of the homeowners. So if you're a homeowner and you want to change out your windows and improve for hurricane purposes, I think that should continue. I think if you're a developer and you're doing a building, that's a completely different story. And I don't think that funding should be there or that ability not to have to pay for that.

What about a developer building a spec home?

Same concept. In other words, if you're a homeowner, and you've been in your home, and now you want to change it. You're improving it. You're improving it. I think that the town should give you that ability and be positive of the fact that you want to fix your home for hurricane purposes and for financial. If you're a developer, whether it's a home or a building, You're doing it for spec. You're doing it to make money, which there's nothing wrong with that. But you shouldn't get the benefit of what a homeowner gets.

Well, nobody's building right now without hurricane glass on there anyways. I mean, they're just, it's standard. Nowadays, you have to just, if you want to be able to insure it, and you have more choice.

But they're getting a benefit that they shouldn't really get.

So if you're building a new building, to the building official, if you're building a new building, And obviously, you're using impact class. Is there some type of waiver for that new building? No.

So if you're building a spec home, you don't?

OK, so then we should just keep it the way it is? We should allow people who have homes, who want to upgrade their homes, especially when it comes to hurricane windows and doors, the benefit, because we want them to do that.

OK, so what is the conclusion? Was there a motion to repeal the waiver? OK. No other questions? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? It passes unanimously. Oh, no.

So the item in front of you is whether or not you want to repeal

So if you vote yes, you're reversing it. Right. So you're reversing it. OK. Because I thought it was, the way it was slid in there, I thought the title is to create the waiver. Right.

I withdraw. So we don't want to change anything.

We want to leave it as is. Is that the preference of the council to leave it as is? Is that what the discussion is? So it'll be waived?

It says the permit application must be received starting December 1, 2015, but I don't know the original date.

So why don't you come back with a change next time to clean that makes it more permanent. I think we're all looking forward to the idea of residents, if they're going to upgrade, getting the waiver, but not the multifamily, and just do straight across the border that way.

So you're just doing it for single family homes? Right. Is that what you're saying?

Well, this is already sunset, and it's gone. So just create a new one.

I understand, but it's still going on right now.

Why don't we, for November, bring a new version?

Yeah, and honestly, I'm not crazy about a developer having a waiver. No, they're not. They're excluded. And what if a condominium with 40 units have a program to change out their windows?

I want every unit, if somebody wants to put in hurricane glass.

Yeah, but in a condominium, we ourselves require uniformity in condominiums. That's fine.

Well, it doesn't require uniformity of impact windows. It's uniformity of style of a window. So whether it's a single hum or whatever it is and the color of the, what do you call it? The frame and the color of the glass, the tint and things like that. So they're all supposed to have specifications on file with the town.

But what if an HOA takes it upon themselves to do a special assessment to replace all the windows and the balconies? They can do that. And they'll have to pay a fee?

Listen, I think any existing property which wants to upgrade should have the waiver. Whether it's a single family home or a condo that's, you know.

The only exception. The only exception is new construction.

So in other words, if an older condominium decides to change their windows, they, just like a single family home, they shouldn't be penalized for trying to upgrade their building.

It's a benefit to the property and to the town. But we don't have to do anything, because according to the background, it says that The waiver remains in place until council takes action to repeal it.

Oh, OK. Oh, so leave it alone. It doesn't. But he also said that it actually sunset. He's just been left leaving it into effect.

But there's no mention of a sunset. I don't see a sunset right now.

Oh, then we don't have to do anything. Alex had said otherwise that there was a sunset in 2015.

When you come back in November, let us know whether it sunsetted or whether it just continued.

OK. No developer gets this benefit. But just do what you're doing until next meeting when we have some clean language. And I think you understand the direction of the council.

It applies to homes and buildings and not to new construction, the way it's written. Correct. And it's an indefinite waiver for existing structures. Until which time the council votes? I don't know that we have to do anything.

Do we have to put a sunset? No, we don't.

So you'll look, and if we do need to come back, come back.

But you may need to put in something that changes the date for the application to extend that. That might be the problem.

We'll leave it up to you to figure that out. All right. What's left? 15.7.

You get it, Stephanie. I didn't see any mention here of the item we discussed. Which one, Mayor? The pension and the interest rate, the rate that we had very, very lengthy discussion on. The discount rate.

Typically, the council has had an opportunity prior to ratifying the collective bargaining agreement to really go into session and discuss it and go through. go through item by item, as is, with any changes, just line by line. I didn't get to do that. Did anyone else get to do that?

I think one reason you said that you're doing a one-year contract is because we don't know what's going on with the Amendment 3. And so we don't want a longer-term contract at this point because we don't know what's going to happen with it.

So I think I'm going to vote for it. But the pension is super important to me. And the fact that we don't have that as part of an agreement is just going to just Huh? Yeah, but they're going to have a conversation with us.

Yeah, the opener. What is the definition of an opener?

Right, that's the first. And then the second thing to the chief is I'm not a big fan of 12 hours. We've done it before. And one of the reasons we left that was for productivity had gone down. We're going to do it for a year. I'm sure you're going to bring us data after a certain amount of time to let us know exactly the outcome of trying it again. I know that at the time, the chief diligently went over with us why eight-hour shifts were better for us and more productive. The men in uniform want 12 hours. But it's really up to them to keep it then. Because if they don't do what they need to do,

Let me ask real quick, Isaac, what you were asking.

But that's with you. Isaac, what I was going to ask was, what you were talking about, I know in the past we've had a closed meeting before the collective bargaining conversation. were counseled. I mean, we never did it individually. We would do a closed meeting with counsel, which we didn't do this time.

I have to tell you that we need to really concentrate on our pension. For those of us who are part of the pension board, there are some really important discussions that we need to have and decisions that need to be made. So although I have no problem with the overall agreement But the pension issue is a big issue. And opening it up in a couple of months, and then going it.

ELIZABETH BUTLER, JR.: And if we don't come to an agreement, then what happens? Does anybody have an answer to that?

CHRIS JERRAM, JR.: MPAS? CHRIS JERRAM, JR.: Well, I mean, one of the things, when we were talking about the budget issue, and how that would affect the budget if we did it. The concern was, or it's not a concern, but I mean, it was appropriate to have a discussion with the two unions before imposing that type of change upon them without going through negotiation. This contract was Our current contract right expired September 30, 2026. So we're not in contract right now. And I think it's important to have a contract. And I think it's good that we're limiting it to one year. And during that peri

OK, so tell me one thing that happens without a contract versus with a contract.

I don't know. I'd leave that to the chief. I mean, I think that anybody who is working without a contract would like to have a contract. And there are certain other provisions in this contract that were bargained for during those negotiations. I think it's always better to have a contract than not to have a contract. But that's up to the council. If you don't want to do it, then vote against it.

But that's one of the reasons why this was only for a year, besides the tax issue, besides Amendment 3. Because I mean, I guess you could put this off. I mean, you could spend a couple of months, or however long it takes, I'm not saying it's months, discussing the pension issue and put it off. ratifying this contract. I mean, that's up to the council.

Yeah, but then we're stuck with a year of, let's just say, we don't have an agreement on that. Then we could go into the next fiscal period and have the same issue. We're just kind of kicking the can down the road. Because had we taken action, and I understand the limitations that we had to take action, we're limited. But now, some of those guardrails went away. So now is the time to really.

Well, we don't have a contract right now. What was the difference between right now and a month from now, or two months from now? There's absolutely no difference, except we'd have more time to, you know, I know I really didn't get to look at the new contract. And you know, maybe the old, I'm presuming that it was just kind of a cut and paste with a couple of things that were changed, like the COLA.

Honestly, I think I kind of agree with you that we should have a closed door session and get some comfort level with what we're doing and really understand this contract that we're getting into. Because I know I didn't spend a lot of time on this.

I'm for all things law enforcement, and the PD knows that. But I want to reiterate what the vice mayor said, that I'm really not in favor of the 12-hour shifts. I think it really eats into productivity. And take an example where you have someone working on a 12-hour shift. If someone can't come in for the next shift and they have to lay over for half the shift, they end up working 18 hours. We're a community. And you wouldn't want a police officer being stressed or whatever it is. and not being able to do his job. And understandably so, if he's working for 18 hours and it's just not efficient.

It's not an emergency room. And even in emergency rooms, doctors and nurses make mistakes because they're tired.

I agree with you, Ezzie. I prefer the eight-hour shifts. But I think the way I'm looking at it there goes back to the same thing. This is a one-year deal. That's it. This is a prove-it time period, that if the officers want to have those 12-hour shifts, they better prove that they can stay just as efficient through this one year. I don't know if that's going to be possible, but it's worth giving them the shot for it. You know, I also, I would love to have the open, you know, I'm sorry, the closed session, an open discussion for us within the closed session. I'm just not sure timing-wise, you k

Yeah, well, it's not a few months. It's a year. And second of all, I think when Ron Wasson was the manager, there was one collective bargaining agreement that wasn't signed until a year and a half later. So we had no contract for a year and a half. and the town is still floating in the intercoastal. It's not ideal. It's not. Honestly, I don't think it affects the town. It doesn't affect the public safety.

I think we should, no doubt in my mind, that we should at least delay this one month So I've had a chance to really go through the collective bargaining agreement and understand it. And maybe we need to have a discussion first amongst the council to talk about the impact that the item, section 29, the pension, let's go through the numbers for us so we could present a proper negotiation including that. I mean, this three month window to open negotiations on either side, it sounds too fluid for me. I'd like something more concrete. That's me. It's the council that has to act.

Are we going to have a closed session as soon as?

We'll have a closed session. If you guys agree to it, I would have a closed session as soon as anybody wants it.

Right now, I've got the pending motion as is. So we'll see if that doesn't pass, then we have the other.

All right. So is there another second? Can you just repeat what you had said to me?

My motion is to pass it as is right now. Because my thought process is this is a one-year deal. We're already into the year. We're going to start negotiations on the three-year deal probably sometime by the middle or early part of next year. And we can go from there. But I think it's a prove-it year for them for as far as the eight to 12-hour issue.

Will we wait a month before we find out when?

And just for the record, personally, I don't really have a problem if the guys are bringing forth the opportunity to have 12-hour shifts, I have no problem with that. But I want to talk seriously about that rate of return matter, which could have, this year, save the town a million and a half bucks right but unfortunately but i think if we approve this didn't raise that up you know earlier so right timing was bad timing was bad

have gone into effect for this budget year.

I understand the concept. Yeah, and we could take this more seriously and do a three-year deal so we don't have to go through this.

There's no way you can do a three-year deal without knowing what happens with Amendment 3.

Right, and then we're doing this without knowing what happens to Amendment 3.

Amendment 3 is one month away. No, but it won't affect our budget for this part of America. It affects the next year's budget.

Yeah, but it affects everything else. You can't look at today. in isolation, in a vacuum. It affects everything else. If we're stuck with this.

If Amendment 3 passes, then that goes into effect in 2027 budget year, not now. So by the time it goes into effect, this is almost over.

I'm still not convinced that we should pass something that I haven't really studied yet.

I don't have a problem with this part, but I have a problem with the pension part. For us, you're right, we did not have ample time at the pension board to really get into it. I mean, we tried, and the timing was just off. But it's very difficult for me to do this without looking at the pension, even for a year, because it The following year, like Isaac says, the impact is tremendous. And if we don't take care of it right now, then next year, I mean, there are things that we- It's a valid argument. No, no, no. So I'm saying, why don't we have- But nothing prevents us from- Why don't we figure

And this is not an aggressive agreement. or adversarial move. This is just a logical move as fiduciaries of public dollars.

Let me ask this. If we did, is it possible time-wise to do the closed session, get everything else from there, and finish up the negotiations so that we can have this completed and on the November agenda? Yeah. You think you can do it in that time period with the negotiations? Because we're asking about whether or not we can package it all together. That's what you guys want. We want to make sure we can do it time-wise.

How long is it going to take to get that information? That's really the key.

When did we have that meeting with Chuck?

He banged out the first short projection in a couple of days. There's no doubt in my mind that if we schedule a date, he'll have to work a little bit of overtime and get what we need.

If you think we can get it, here's the thing. It's a yes or no. Do you think you can get everything done so we can have this as a final one package in the November 16th? For a one-year agreement. Yeah. Because we're not going to start changing the numbers on a three-year and start negotiating after the election. The time crunch wouldn't be available. But we do one year. Because not to mention, we're talking about whether it's eight and 12 hours. There's going to be other factors in there. But just one year.

To go through everything everybody's wants. Yeah.

Um, well, you know, right now it sounds like, you know, there's a lot of folks on the council that aren't so happy about the 12 hour shifts. So, um,

But that's why I want a one-year contract, to give them the opportunity for their 12 hours to show us what they can do. I'm not against it. I'm not a fan of it. I'm willing to do it, but I want to see.

And you're probably going to have to have some kind of closed session so that you don't have to go one by one by one.

Well, no, you need to do a closed session before November. You need to have the actuarial information and have a closed session with us in advance of November 16th, but also giving you time then to talk to the union again.

Would the closed session include all of us, or only the pension? Yes, all of us.

So it looks like that's everybody's one, so I'll withdraw the motion.

OK, and there's no second anyway. So the motion dies on the floor.

And let's make sure that whatever explanation you get, in other words, pensions for dummies, please make it very easy for all of us to understand what the implications or consequences of changing that provision. Because it's not a simple matter.

It can be somewhat complex. You know, Chuck Carr will be able to, provide enough information for you to understand it. Yeah, that seems right. It's not rocket science.

No, no, but I want to know what the implications are. And I want it just to be very straight forward.

Yeah, and we asked those questions during the pension board. And he answered them that there's no one that will be affected by this retroactively. In other words, everybody, they're not losing anything. They're not losing anything, the members of the pension. They're not losing anything. Moving forward, the only people it might affect are new enrollees or folks that are not in the pension plan yet.

So you're saying people who are in the pension plan now would not be affected by changing the interest rate?

I'd be willing to make a motion regarding the shift, but, you know, I'll defer that until... No, no, we'll do it in private. Having that in the closed session and with further discussion with our police department, I think individually we should, you know, gauge that.

Okay. Is there any other items to be discussed? No. Okay. We're adjourned.