City Council - workshop

Excuse me, I'm sorry, my screen is dark, so I can't put, I could ask a question, thank you. Cherie, when you're looking overall at your projections, On sales tax, do you break out sales tax at all by category in terms of your projections when you get down into the weeds of it? Or do you just look across the board?

Thank you, Madam President. Sure, in the second bullet there, the stay below table property tax cap, is that the 5.5% cap that you're referring to there, or is it a different number?

Councilman Hengim? Thank you. Cherie, on the one-time expenses, the first line, and getting those, putting it into those funds, that makes sense to me. But can you just talk a little bit about, like, what's the level that you're trying to keep those reserves at, if you will?

Keep it at a healthy balance, if you will? Yes. And without getting too specific, like what defines sort of a healthy balance in those categories?

I'm just curious, in prior years, you haven't highlighted or delineated a rebudgeting number or process. And I'm curious, I know that in prior years, many departments have underspent their budgets, and so there have been excess revenue, excess dollars that have been swept forward into other budgets. Why highlight that? the 12.3 in this budget cycle as opposed to just handling it in the same fashion that you have previously? Is it because of the specificity around how you want to spend those dollars in 27?

Yeah, so that's the dollar amount and the specificity, as I said. And so again, I know in prior years, whether you've highlighted it or not, there have been instances where departments have underspent their budgets. And so that just gets rolled up into the general fund and carried forward in the normal budgeting process.

Yeah, thank you, Madam President, and good morning, Cherie. Good morning. My apologies for being a few minutes late. I was coming from the MAC meeting, and that went a little bit longer. This is a real specific question. Do you know that the building demolition, you know, the .3 million, so 300,000, is that the structure kind of near Corpus Christi Church on... I think it would be Beacon Street, because I drove by it the other day, and it's the one right along the trail that we did by the railroad tracks, and it has some, like the plywood in the windows, there's holes cut in it, and I wondered

31:38•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

Shree, and that total with the new revenue, is that less their salaries? Is that the total without those new position salaries? Is that the true up number?

Councilman risley, thank you madam president. So that goes exactly to my earlier question or comment is that should had you chosen not to rebudget those dollars? It would have gone to the. The reserve fund, and I also just want to comment and you've heard me say this last 3 years. I'll say it again. The. industry average of 16%, 16 point whatever percent is fine as a sort of a benchmark or a metric, but I've always advocated for a higher level of reserve dollars percentage. And I think Mayor Souther's prior for the same reason that because we are so susceptible to the ups and downs of sales ta

Thank you, Madam President. Yeah, Sheree, just curious, do you have a practice of

That's great. Thank you, Carly. And how would you, and I don't know if you want to answer for Carly or Carly wants to answer, but how, like, if you were to grade yourself on, you know, that forecasting, like, how close have you gotten? What's your, I don't know how you measure that, but.

Thank you, Madam President. In regards to the classification adjustments, I know you just mentioned 15 to 20 different positions for that. Is that outlined anywhere?

Thank you, Madam President. Jen, do you by any chance, these are just straight numbers, do you have an idea of percentage-wise how much closer we're helping our police and fire get to comparison of the front range? As you certainly know, we're losing folks to other departments because we're really behind. for payment for police and fire. So do you know that? Do you have that by percentage, like we're going from, and I know it varies depending on the market, and I know that's a complicated figure, but.

okay we know the percent that each rank is moving but i don't know then how far that leaves them away from the market in terms of long-range planning is there a plan to you know like a third the next year and a third the next year or or how are you what's the plan for getting to market rate

I'm guessing this is where we need to start talking about revenue increases, yeah. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

50:20 – 50:45•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

And just for clarity, is that 179? I mean, is that the pages under, I'm not gonna have you look, but under fire in our books, that's where that is, right? Under the 178, 179 that she's referring to when you see those? budgeted and then amendment, that's where we find those to see the percentages to answer your question. Is that correct? I can find that there.

51:03•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

Right, and I do see the PSST breakdown. That doesn't matter to me where it's coming from. It's just, to Nancy's point, where's the percentages of it, and where's the needle moving?

51:21•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

Yes. Okay, I wanted to make sure that was. Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, thanks, Madam President, and good morning, Jen. Good morning. On that same topic, that's a concern of mine. I think several of us up here have talked with maybe representatives from the fire department, not those who are in the room right now. but about concerns that although there are increases in pay and as a percentage it's not a small number, it doesn't really, we're treading water. We're not making up the difference with other departments which are, essentially uh taking our trained uh you know firefighters from us and they're going there for less work and more pay so you know my co

Okay, then I'll hold any other discussion unless you want to add something else to that.

Thank you, Madam President. You said that this doesn't include PPRTA funds, but when I look at the Public Works expenditure budgets, that obviously does include PPRTA funds. So you'll walk us through how you reconcile that?

Thank you, Jen, for that explanation. And I'm assuming there are probably grants you apply for that maybe don't even make it into your expenditure, or maybe not. But how do you determine what seems more likely to actually put in the budget book for expenditure, given that you don't know?

And I recall, and you typically highlight which positions are grant funded. So it's kind of clear for the most part, which things in the budget book are,

Thank you. This is a helpful graph and I don't think I see it at least under the expenditure section. Would it be possible for me to just get a copy of this that I can put in my book?

And just for my colleague's knowledge, I asked too, and I believe these were sent to us. Yeah, these slides were sent to us this morning, so we haven't had a chance to look at them yet.

I wanna hope that I can stick in here, thanks.

Oh, you want it for the book? Yeah, okay, thanks.

Yeah, I was trying to notice here, is parks in other,

So that's just TOPS, but in TOPS is a totally different piece, but yeah, it's acquisition of land and some maintenance, but I mean, there is nothing here for parks.

Is there a breakout for that 10 million? Cause that's not the number I was able to come up with. I came up with 525,000.

Because I just got two, the resurfacing of a swimming pool and then $25,000 for, I forget what it was. Oh, for the master plan that they put together. So I didn't really see anything else that was related to parks, but if there is more, I don't know where that 10 million is.

1:10:11•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

I don't see any questions, so let's recess for a 10-minute break. Thank you. Thank you. We're in recess.

Just, I just want to be sure of the numbers. I jotted them down, right, Chief? But good morning to you. Morning. 768 out of 839? Correct. Is that right? Correct. And what's the gap there? That's like 40, you probably, 70, that's 70 some, 72 or three with over short, right? Yes. Roughly. How does that compare to a year ago? About the same?

And so that's good news. Out in Huntsville, I spoke with a gentleman who's from Douglas County, and when I mentioned we're having some it's a challenge to fill these slots even though we have the slots, we have the pay. He was real skeptical and he was like, wow, we get more applicants and we know what to do with all our, he didn't say all their positions were filled, that's what he was implying. And so he kind of rolled his eyes. How would you respond to that? What's the difference between Douglas County Sheriff's Department and CSPD as far as filling slots and attracting applicants?

Okay, thank you for that. Sorry to go off on a sidebar right away.

Yeah, I understand that there's a pay difference between sworn and non-sworn, like the community service officers and stuff like that, but I've never asked what is the pay for a typical police officer, give me a range, and then what would be the range of a community service officer, which is that kind of backup type individual so you know when we look at rangers or other components you know what what what am i looking at in like the ranges there i've always kind of been curious and i've never asked that question i'll i'll uh look to uh chuck to maybe or heather get to some numbers on cso's but

I'm actually comparing sworn versus non-sworn. You know, like the community service officers, okay, which drive around with the green...

So it's just shy of double, right? Just shy of double. I've just never have understood that correlation and this was appropriate time to ask it.

Excuse me, Chief. To piggyback on Council Member Lineweber's question, when you said $102,000 first class, are we talking about someone who's graduated the academy and they're coming first line on...

So I would make the assumption in the scaling, we're talking somewhere between, I'm doing public math here, about 92 to 102K over that scaling timeframe. Is that accurate assessment?

Councilman Hingem. Thank you, Madam President. Chief, on the impound lot, can you remind me why there's such a drop in that expense? And also, if we get any revenue from the sale of those cars?

Do we, have we ever auctioned those cars and do we still do that?

Thank you, Madam President. Chief, quick question. El Paso County, and I don't know if I'm going on the wrong track here. When it comes to the crime lab, are they leveraging and using our crime lab? And if so, do they contribute any funds to the crime lab?

And I guess for budgeting purposes, we do capture that from a regional perspective, not specifically from this city budget?

Yes, going back to the technology, it seems like El Paso County Sheriff's Office came to a different conclusion regarding the use of cameras. Have you taken a look at what their decision criteria were and how they reached that, and does that change your view, or is that incorporated into what you talked about, putting controls and stuff in place?

Yeah, thanks, Madam President, and good morning, Chief. In that last, those few sentences you said, you know, then we'll get rid of our flock cameras, but we don't really have flock cameras, right? We have Axon.

Okay. You know, you talked about, hey, we're solving crimes more efficiently like this. Are there some crimes you think we wouldn't have been able to solve without ALPRs or the technology that we're using?

What kind of effort is there for PR about that, for publicizing it almost on a weekly basis so citizens see the upside to what you're doing or what we are doing versus just the concerns about privacy?

Okay, and I think that's really important because I think if things are popping up in the local news once a week or in the Gazette or on social media, not waiting for them to come to us to get the story or go to our website, but we're sending something out, that will help. That will... explain to citizens why is this worth the concerns about privacy? What difference is it really making? Because I believe it really, it does make a difference. And I think it has saved lives and will save lives. And it also, you talked about it as quality of life, but it allows PD to deal with things like the mot

And then perhaps it goes back to where we started with 768 out of 839. And if we had 820, we could deal with that. So we need to fill those positions. Okay, thank you. Councilman Leinweber.

I remember a discussion, and I don't know if it was last year, it might have been the year before, about using technology to help our patrol officers be more efficient, particularly with the amount of time to fill out reports and stuff like that. Have you leaned into that kind of work? I mean, because if we can keep an officer, if he can finish a report 50% quicker, he's got 50% more time on the street, right? Have you looked at those kind of technology things?

Good. I mean, that's a key part about technology. I think I just wanted to focus on a little bit is that there are other benefits. And I didn't understand that Axion was one whole suite of things, which included like the reporting that they have to do.

Okay. And then I'm trying to understand the, you know, we've been discussing the 9-1-1 authority and the whole deal of that. Are you comfortable with where we're kind of moving? I mean, I think I just like to hear an updated statement about what your impression is about what's happening there. And are we going to get a fairer shake, you know, from those funds? Because there's a reduction here, which... I guess I'm not understanding the reduction on page 389 in our books. 2.2 million, I'm trying to understand what that actually is reflecting.

Thank you, Madam President. And ironically, I had that with an asterisk next to it because that was gonna be one of my questions. So thank you for covering that for me. But I just wanna thank you and the rest of the team definitely for your leadership and really leaning forward on that. That was not, it's not an easy task, but I'm glad to see everyone to include council leadership. all leaning in to try to get this one right. But the question I did have is specific to the real-time crime center, and then of course looking at some of your requests. I'm a big fan of the RTCC, and to your comment

So no expansion in manpower, but definitely in technology, correct?

Councilman Williams. Thank you, and thank you, Chief, for all of your hard work. Since we've gone kind of down the axon rabbit hole in the technology, could you just describe how the real-time crime center works? Because I feel like there's almost a perception that drones are in the air 24-7, information is being collected and stored constantly, but can you just talk through how it how it actually works in real time and kind of how that engagement works with the entire public when it does take place sure absolutely so it's it's it's um very fluid obviously the primary way there's two two

2:11:11•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

Looks like that's it. Well, I guess not. That's when Donaldson is slow to the punch today.

I had a tissue in the way of my button there. It messed me up. Chief, one other question about this ALPRs, because I know this is a concern of some people with more like the flock cameras. Do ALPRs register any decals on the back of the vehicle on the bumper?

And why would that, I don't want to interrupt you, but when you continue, say why that might be useful. Sure.

And also, even if they had the license plate, if the person took the license plate off, you still have something else that identifies? Yes.

And I know the concern among some citizens, I just think this is useful to this be recorded that, well, you know, the government's going to find everybody who has an NRA sticker on their vehicle and they're going to get them at some point. But there is a reason, a practical reason. that a sticker on a car or vehicle is useful information in case you don't have the license plate. You kind of laid it out. Or in case the license plate is switched. They steal a different license plate and stick it on there.

Okay, is there anything else to add on that? It's not just to round people up who have... whatever, go COS stickers in the future.

And I'll just point out, I'm an NRA member, so I don't have anything against the NRA, thanks.

2:20:46•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

I have a question from Councilman Donaldson.

And thank you, Madam President. And Chief, if I understand this right, then we should subtract $3 million from grants on this slide.

so and then chief vasquez kind of pointed out the uh hey this is our authorized strength 839 of sworn we're at 768. for you i took a picture you know what is your authorized then what do you actually have so our sworn authorized strength is 516. we are right there with our training academy that we have going in there but when they come out we are probably going to be a couple down

Okay, so you're probably at about 514, but there's just a continuous leak, so to speak, of firefighters leaving and then you're filling it back in. Are those that are leaving, and I won't go one minute on this, those that are leaving, are they retiring? Is it 50% are retiring, 50% are going somewhere else?

So that's new that we're losing that many.

They're staying on the front range. They're just going somewhere else for better pay and less work. Okay, maybe we can talk more about that later on. Thanks. Okay, thanks.

Councilman Hingem. Thank you, Madam President. Randy, I'm going back actually to the 2025 actual, and you dropped in administrative positions about nine, I think, more or less. And so you've had almost a full year now to operate without those, and you're not reinstating those in this budget. Can you just help me understand how you've managed without those? Where has it been like, okay, that was okay? Or where are you really missing?

So, yeah. Okay. I think it's important to remember the impact on overall level of service and effort and in the loss of those and. Yeah, okay.

2:30:41•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

I have a question from Councilman Donaldson.

Yeah, Chief Royal, can you say that again? I heard call volumes going up, but I didn't hear the numbers.

And can you just remind us, what percentage of those are medical?

And so the 83,000 is the projection for 26, that's what you think you're gonna have? Okay, what do you think it's gonna be in 27?

Okay, and what will you be doing then? Hmm, good question.

I'm not sure exactly what my question is, Randy, You know, as I look at these priorities, and we're talking about the 2027 budget, I just am also really aware of the impacts that aren't necessarily outlined here of not keeping up with call volume, of not retaining and attracting talent, of not addressing those health and wellness, all of these are paramount importance. And Council Member Rainey and I have been meeting with you and with Chief of Staff and with police to talk about these needs from a longer-term perspective. And I just feel like it has to be said, not that there's anything we ca

Right, right, and the apparatus, and what percentage of your budget would you say is kind of really capital, basically, versus...

Okay. And I know those are huge expenses as well. Well, I just wanted to make a statement about it because we have been talking about it, and we're coming up on an election cycle for our municipality. We don't have a tax initiative on the 2027 ballot, but I think it needs to be a part of the conversation for people who are running for mayor and for city council because we have to start. Making it clear that this really is not sustainable.

Right. And you may or may not have paid attention to our work session with parks. And, you know, while parks isn't directly so closely associated with safety in the same way. It's a really important part as well. And their situation is pretty dire as well. So we've got some conversations to have. Thank you, Chief.

Thank you, Madam President. You've just repeated something that was said earlier, and it is that we are losing trained firefighters in an unusual amount to other local agencies. And our pay is lower, and we've received a letter, a presentation, from the local five, kind of laying that out by position with different agencies in our area and we're pretty much at the bottom, I think. So, I think it would be, I know it would be appreciated and it might slow some of the loss if we were able to increase that, the currently recommended increase for the fire positions by an additional 1%. And I think

So that would be a minimum for me. That would be the minimum thing we should do. So about $20 million.

And what I would say about this is that Health Foundation fund was created for the health of the citizens of Colorado Springs. 80% of the calls are medical calls. And this is, I think, an excellent way to use some of the fund, which has grown quite a lot recently because of what the stock market has done, to take some of that profit and just direct it right towards something that will make a big dent in a problem which we need to address. So those are two thoughts from me. And then my final question to you today, Chief, will be what is your prediction for the Broncos tonight?

Thank you, Madam President, and thank you, Chief, for everything, and close the entire team and staff. I know we've been going at it for quite some time, and while you won't be here to see the end result, it's definitely because of your hard work, leadership, and effort that help us to where we're hopefully going to get The one thing I do want to emphasize before I ask my question is, you hit something there and it's in your very first bullet, keeping up with city growth and we are growing, we're growing very fast. And I keep saying this, And not to make light of it as a joke, but it's just a

and the last thing i want to mention uh... especially since uh... my colleague councilmember donaldson mention this uh... in regards to apparatus and and you know fine funding i'm gonna bosh this up so many to help on here what's the name of the the engine truck that actually has all the tools on the backside of it to get inside vehicles. It has all the hydraulic pumps on it. It's like on the back right side. It's a ladder truck also.

And that heavy unit, from my understanding, we only have one, correct? Right. Of a city of a half a million people, we have one. And I believe there's other municipalities, they have definitely more than one, maybe two or three. And that one heavy truck has to cover the entire city. How often is that truck on the road?

But once again, for a city our size, we should have two or more, not one, trying to cover the entire city.

Councilman Williams. Thank you, Madam President. Sharae, when you did the overview and outlined all of this, you mentioned there's $9.4 million that we are not going to get due to our TABOR revenue cap. And I think listening to both chiefs talk today, I think they could both use the $9.4 million I'm not entirely sure it's going to happen in my lifetime, but I think at some point in time, we need to have the table conversation. I had the luxury of running against Doug Bruce. The 1st time I ran for office and. Spent an hour and a half with him on the phone, and it was evidence that anarchy was t

Thank you, Madam President. I just want to say one more thing because I never get a chance to say it on a public platform like this. The job that you do, your leadership, and the rest of that team, when it comes to the International Firefighters Memorial, thank you. I think we need to, as a city, we need to lean in a lot more into that, but just thank you for your leadership. If I don't get a chance to say it again right now, just thank you for your leadership and making that a world-class event.

2:52:56•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

Those are the great use of our dollars that need to be spent on those types of functions, in my opinion. Councilman Hingem.

uh thank you madam president i just need to give my fellow council member rain a little heck for not remembering the name of the truck because you did just go to the fire academy he did a pass he didn't want you to bring it up that's great thank you so much thank you all appreciate it

2:53:31•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

This close to noon, we're going to break five minutes early. Lucky for you, we have a 30.

2:55:57 – 2:56:18•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

good afternoon we are back in session for the city council 2027 budget work session and next up we have parks recreation and cultural services good afternoon schuyler good afternoon madam president pro tem risley and council members appreciate the opportunity to talk a little bit about our budget

2:57:05•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

I do have a question from Councilman Leidenweber.

I'm sorry, you just struck one of my issues. In your master plan, you've made a statement in here since the year 2000, general fund funded maintenance staffing has declined from 85 to 24 full-time, so you've gone from 85 positions to 28 positions. But then it goes on to say that you're growing, you got 41 positions from TOPS funding, but I'm just confused by that. When you talk about, on that last slide, you actually said that you had, if we go back one, You have 93 positions in parks, maintenance, and operations. And then I'm seeing on your master plan, it says that you have 28. So I'm trying

Okay. Because ultimately I'm getting to the place where, again, you've said that you're going to need to add 90 plus additional full-time equivalents over the next 10 to 15 years in your master plan. And so I'm trying to understand that. kind of when we look at this, you say 93 there, is that because you're gonna possibly lose some other funding? I'm just trying to have a better grasp of that question about how do we get our parks in better shape?

All right, just going into this, I just want to understand what that statement was and how this relates to the number I just looked on the screen here of 93.

And this question may be very similar, it's just that Golf Enterprise has 10 employees, but certainly there's way more than that. Is it, when I go there and I see all the others, it's a concession for like the Valley High Restaurant Club. Do you know, just off the top of your head roughly, like how many folks there are working on a regular day at Valley High and then over at Patty Jewett, yeah?

It's not even too important. It's just amazing that we only have 10 full-time employees to run two golf courses.

Yeah, it still seems amazingly light to me, but okay, thank you.

and if you look it's pretty much right across the board funded in the exact same way so to your question earlier councilman lineweber that kind of gives you a little bit better of a breakdown yeah this is part of why we got downgraded with uh tpl parks park scores because we um so we're not making up any of the positions that we lost in 2026 we're not making up any of those so no okay

Councilman Hincham. Thank you, Madam President. Hi, Skylar. Hi. In the special districts, the SIMDs and GID, is that increased just strictly because of the projection of increased sales tax revenue, or we're not adding any SIMDs or GIDs?

Thanks, Madam President. Schuyler, you just said, hey, TOPS properties, we can't generate any, essentially any revenue from them. Just allowing things like a trail race, trail run, through the TOPS property or bikes, mountain biking or racing, to me those are, especially if it's flatter, it's low impact, what do you think we could generate from the TOPS properties through activities like those?

So we just spoke with, who was it? Glenn Carlson. No, it wasn't Glenn Carlson. It was Sports Corp. Is it? Davis? Yeah, Davis. And we talked about this, that there are events that we won't be able to get because of the trail. We just don't have the trails to pull it off. We have to... go out, bend ourselves into a pretzel to not go across the TOPS property. So I for one would certainly be really interested to see what a realistic projection would be if we were allowed to use the trails that cross them for not motorized motorcycle racing or anything, but low impact activities. So I think it'd be

Yeah. And, you know, I used to work in the Forest Service in a wilderness area, Bob Marshall Wilderness. I love solitude and quiet. A trail run, you know, with just people running through, running. I think is something we could balance the benefit to revenue generated and we can maintain and acquire more versus just absolutely not allowing any kind of activity which is for profit like a race to occur. So I would be very interested in that.

Yeah, as you're going through this list, I just like to understand or I think I do understand that really most of your capital improvement funding comes from other sources like TOPS or from the enterprise within or from the golf course enterprise within or PPRTA, stuff like that. Really just so all we have is kind of We're only using $500,000 to do the Wilson Pool and $25,000. But I did notice this, the greenhouse repair. Isn't that a shared thing? Because, I mean, not everything developed there goes to parks. It goes to public works and other things. I mean, they replace trees. I mean, they d

And that's what I'm thinking about with this greenhouse. Why is it still with you if forestry is with, is it just because you guys have more need of the?

So they're doing their own trees and stuff. They're not getting it from our greenhouse. That's what I'm trying to understand. I kind of thought that the greenhouse was doing everything.

So they're buying trees and stuff to do their own stuff, okay. Well, and I just bring that up because I've heard about the tree issue that we're gonna have with all of our ash trees.

Yeah, that's why, when I look at this capital improvement project, it's assigned to you. Well, it's kind of, that particular one's more of a shared one because I'm thinking a lot of different departments use the greenhouse is what my thought was.

So what we're showing is $410,000, that's the part that insurance is not covering?

Well, that's why I didn't pick it up before. Correct. I just got a new sheet.

Okay, so it's probably an accurate statement to still say that from the general fund, we are funding $525,000 worth of stuff because that 410 is going to be refunded. So it's not really truly something we're investing in. We're just getting an insurance payment.

Thank you. Just sticking on forestry for just a moment. Do you happen to know, I know the emerald ash borer is a really, really significant concern, and I've talked with Matthew Puckett about kind of long-range plans and saving the trees we can and budgeting long-term for which ones are going to have to come down and so forth. But is there, I guess, what's the amount that forestry will be able to utilize to manage that long-term significant cost that's going to be to the city to manage that problem?

Oh, right. Yeah, this isn't Public Works. I'm sorry. You know what? Yeah, I'll save it. Yeah. I'm sorry. I apologize.

don't see any nope i do see one councilman williams sorry i just had to get right back to the right page um just two quick things that caught my eye um and again you may or may not have to phone a friend because it's kind of in the weeds but you've got um vandalism related maintenance And it's like $150, I feel like you've got to share that with some other department because that's a very small number. But I guess that's a broader question, like if and when there is vandalism, where does that come from? And given how small that number is, I feel like maybe it's more of a Chief of Staff questio

That's the reason it jumped off the page. Yeah. It is on 369. 52291. I just didn't know if I missed it someplace else. There's another bucket.

So this is probably just the general fund bucket, which is why it's, you know, I feel like Kim might have the answer to something or at least.

And then just one more question on that page. You've got $116,000 in credit card fees. I'm assuming that's, are we not, we're having to pay those because of the credit card usages at the facilities?

Yeah, I guess this might be actually a quick question for Shrey. On page 553, there's this kind of five-year plan for capital improvement projects, and What I noticed is that there's a lot of things, how does a capital improvement progress get assigned to a year? Because none of the parks, I mean parks is basically void of any future assignment. So for the next five years, there's really nothing that was allocated to parks for the next five years.

So when we look at some of these different ones that have been projected over the next five years, it's because we couldn't really get it all done in one year.

So there was, on page 57, where it kind of talks about operational budget requests, and I imagine these are requests that were made but were denied, but they're listed, right?

Because some of these things kind of look, I mean, there's a graffiti machine, there's a couple, I mean, they kind of feel like they're capital improvement projects. On 58, there's some lists that are kind of in the parks area that, Some are staffing, but then other things seem like, I mean, a graffiti machine, that doesn't sound like, that's not a staffing thing. So I was trying to understand why were there things like that here. So there's requests made here in this page on 58, and then in the back of the book, On page 563, there's like four pages of park stuff that's listed out. That total,

So how does something get like on the five-year plan? There just isn't any mechanism that gets them there or?

Okay, I'm just trying, I mean, I'm just, again, when I see a number that's 310,184,700 in requests, and there's no plan. There's no, I mean, those are just hanging out there. that's kind of a challenge, and that doesn't include the ones that were actually put forward in the first part. I think they are separate because they're not listed twice.

Well, I guess my thinking is that if you get on the list, like for the next five years, you kind of can plan. And so all these other departments have gotten on the list.

3:42:39 – 3:42:53•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

Thank you. Next up, Public Works. Hi, Rich.

Good morning. I was joking, you must be in some other time zone. I don't know. So you touched on something just now that I was curious about, because when I looked at the unfunded positions, I saw that Public Works had 12.75 FTE unfunded, and yet there's this proposal to add this pothole crew of four additional individuals or FTE. I'm trying to understand and reconcile in my mind why, whether it was your department or someone else, is asking for four additional people to fill potholes when there are 12.75 other unfunded positions that continue to remain unfunded. And when I look at what those

It does, but again, I would argue that some of the other unfilled positions, in my view, would be more high level and more critical to the overall operation of your department.

I appreciate that. What does a pothole crew do in January or December when it's too cold to fill potholes?

Sure, and not to beat a dead horse, but again, I'll just maybe highlight that within traffic engineering, you've got 32.75 FTE, and there are several traffic engineering roles that are unfunded. And again, I can see the argument that having an inspector too out on the street inspecting projects in the right of way helps to move the needle and move things forward more rapidly. You know, PPRTA projects or 2C projects or repair projects or what have you.

3:56:20•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

So how many pothole crews do you have today?

3:56:51 – 3:57:05•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

Well, I thought I saw, correct me if I'm wrong, four pothole crews in the budget completely. Okay, so you have four pothole crews, not talking trucks. That's what I thought I saw. You're just asking for another pothole crew.

3:57:26 – 3:57:46•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

I know intimately, and the 2C prohibits city employees doing that work. However, it doesn't keep them from contracting out. And so, I don't know, best and highest use may not be to add four or five EFTs when the 2C could contract it out. And wouldn't you agree filling potholes is just the band-aid?

3:58:12•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

And we have $80 million a year, or $80 million in 2C.

3:58:20 – 3:58:39•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

And so when you're talking best and highest use, instead of adding four more that could go to Councilman Risley's point, other departments to be filled, yeah. You could have 2C, but they'd just have to use outside contractors. They cannot use city employees.

3:59:05•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

And that takes care of the potholes on those roads. So you used the stormwater scenario, so I used the 2C scenario. Councilman Lineweber?

yeah i just want to just confirm i mean um the way this kind of works like this summary that we have on page 57 it's the summary of uh general fund operation budget requests okay yeah those were unfunded requests yeah but these are all the requests uncle so some of these did get to make the list

But that's what I'm trying to, I'm trying to understand the process because the potholes didn't, they weren't on this requested list. But I've seen other ones like in the parks, all the park stuff that made the list did go over. I'm not sure I answered that. And several of the other ones too. So I just didn't, it suggested that it wasn't on the original list. Oh, okay. I just didn't know the process of how did this pothole thing come up when we, like to Risley's point, when we had all these other things that was probably maybe your first priority.

It came in from another list. It's not on this list.

And I understand that entirely. I have obviously been looking at parks with a microscope, right? the two things that are getting funded, the master plan and then also the Wilson Ranch are on this list. So that led me to assume that that's the way it was, that this was the request list and then off of this list is what actually made the funded list.

All right, thanks. Can I ask a quick one just on that real quick? Sorry. I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. Is those pages, the 57, 58, 59, if from those pages it was funded they ended up at the bottom of 56. it might have i feel like these are all the things that were above and beyond like here's our first blush of the budget things that didn't make the first blush ended up on 57 58 and 59 and then if they managed to make the cut then they're at the bottom of page 56 correct okay thank you sorry council Right, exactly.

I was trying to figure out who, I was like. No, that's right, so.

I've always been interested in the pages 57, 58, and 59, every budget year. It's basically, to me, what the city needs, but we can't afford, right? Right. It's unmet level of service, if you will. Yep. So what gets to the bottom of, in this case, page 56, is really what gets prioritized. And going back to process, and I got to admit, I haven't been paying attention every single second of today's discussion, but I've been trying. I think what I heard was these priorities came out from conversations with all department heads. Is that accurate and fair?

Is, is, The term, are we parsing words by calling it a pothole crew? Because I think what I'm also hearing from you, Rich, is that's not, we're not gonna hire those people and they're never gonna do anything but potholes, correct? I mean, it's really, I mean, I'm just trying to understand, because it kind of matters. I mean, honestly, it's a little political, right? When it gets down to what do you prioritize, it's what do you really care? Your priority is your budget.

a big family around the table who gets the best piece of you know meat yeah but i mean i don't want to diminish the needs of other departments they're real yeah yeah yeah no for sure i mean it's hard right it's hard to yeah yeah choose what to prioritize but i guess i guess that's ultimately i think the conversation we're having and the the healthy tension that may exist sometimes between city council who represent all the city but also you know the mayor also represents all the city and where does this input come from it certainly comes from citizens and what they care about and you all hear

Oh, Councillor Henge, I'm sorry. You're up. It's okay. Just going back on that bicycle tax. Yeah. And maybe you said this before, I'm sorry if you did, but I'm assuming those dollars go directly to capital improvements that will support bicycle infrastructure.

4:15:21•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

I don't see any at this, oh, Councilman Rainey, slow to the punch again.

Thank you, Madam President. This is more of a quick question. It's not on, I saw it on your unfunded list, the geographic information system analyst. Yeah. Looking for like a senior and then a technician. How many do you currently have?

Okay, key thing that you just mentioned, they were unfilled. Prior to, okay. Yeah. Thanks for that clarity.

Councilman Hingham. Thank you. This actually reminds me, and this might be a question for Sharae actually, but on this unfunded request, I know this last year a lot went on there that we haven't recovered, but there have been other positions on there for a long time. Is there a way to... or maybe it doesn't matter, but is there a way to categorize what just we lost versus ones that have been on there and felt the need for the last five years but we haven't had the funds? Do you know what I'm saying? Am I making sense?

Well, I guess I'm kind of thinking really holistically about, for example, the long-term trend of parks, which has just been continued to go down, down, down, down, down. And, you know, how do you avoid that, or how do you pay attention to... It's probably a conversation for later, but thank you. Of course.

4:18:52•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

Thank you. We are going to take a 15 minute.

4:20:55•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

Yeah, we're gonna take 15, so we'll be back around 2.17. We're in recess.

4:37:21 – 4:37:54•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

36. Good afternoon, and welcome back to the City Council 2027 Budget Work Session. And next up, we will hear from the airport. Good afternoon, Alex.

4:41:01•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

Did you plan the airplane to go overhead during this presentation?

4:45:50•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

I learned that this year. Councilman Hingem.

Thank you, Madam President. Clearly this is not my area of expertise, but $1.5 million just to do a design? Just for the design?

Okay, it just seems like a lot of money.

Have you consulted with our parking enterprise manager about this? Yes. Okay, just because I know that's her expertise, yeah.

Yeah, thanks, Madam President. And Alex, the covered parking, you're thinking about doing hail proof, is that right?

yeah you mean uh like to cover the the areas where you drive in between the rows also versus just the actual row and in between correct yes that's what we're talking about okay yeah i can see the advantage to covering the whole thing and more expensive but it's truly your car is not going to get hit from the back or something the covered parking out there now is it is it uh is it a material or is it metal

yeah and the uh i think we talked about this a little bit kind of one of the decisions is do you do which would be better to have that covered parking right up close to the airport or on the other side of the short-term parking out where it's long-term is that right you're still still subject to uh a decision um

Councilman Hendren. Yeah, and are you or would you be willing to consider solar on top of the parking? Absolutely, yes.

4:50:52•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

We have a question from Councilman Rainey.

Yes, can we go back one slide? The VMAT at 22-5, from my understanding, the FAA is pushing a $12.5 billion initiative across all airports across the nation. Is that something that they're gonna be paying for? So these particular vehicles and what they're gonna be responsible for with the onboard transponders to help out the air traffic control tower? Is this 25K something that we have to pay for? And if so, why, if they're gonna be pushing this initiative?

Thanks, Madam President. Hi, Alex. This might be a good place to ask a couple of the questions that I've been kind of trying to grapple with. As it relates to implements and just total passenger count, what's the status of the international terminal, and how do you anticipate that factoring in to the 2027 budget, and I assume that it's a completely sunk cost at this point. You guys built it, even though it was uncertain about how successful that would be, but talk about what the plan is going forward.

It does. So if it's status quo and you're keeping it open just as a potential overflow if somebody needs to land an international flight there, that tells me then obviously we're continuing to pay the TSA agents to sit there and maybe most days they don't have anything to do or do you only bring them in when there's a flight that's anticipated. I mean, how does that work? Because that's an ongoing expense that I wouldn't call part of the original capital improvement sunk cost.

And so if we're seeing a loss in aviation activity and obviously revenue associated with that, What are you doing to try to offset that loss, and what are some of the other... One of your priorities was diversification of revenue. What is that? Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Okay, thanks, I'll probably have some follow-on questions about the peak innovation side of things, but I don't wanna delay your presentation.

That's right, that's my job to delay the presentation. So, Alex, what was I gonna ask you? Oh, the international Should we call it a terminal? Is that what we call it?

The funds to do that, where did those funds come from? Were any of them with federal dollars through grants? Was it all? Yeah, go ahead.

What are the amounts there on that? Do you know?

Okay, but about $4 million. So it's good for us to know, because otherwise you're figuring, is it 10s, 20s, what is it? So about $4 million. And that gives us the ability to now go out and attract an international flight, right? Without it, we couldn't do that. Correct. Correct? Okay, so it's something of, it's not productive at the moment, but it was an investment which hopefully will pay dividends soon.

Okay. And you talked about the CBP agents. Are they officers probably? Are they there now or has that already been terminated, that contract?

Okay. but there's not a date yet set for that?

5:03:24 – 5:03:42•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

Yeah, I just was curious, admin versus personnel. So, person- Line for admin and miscellaneous, but admin, and then you have a line for personnel. Is administration not personnel? I just want the clarity between, you see the admin- Oh, yes, yes.

5:04:10•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

I'm not gonna say it, I get it. Councilman Hingem.

Thanks, I missed whatever was funny. Okay, okay. My question is about advertising and marketing. So I know LART, when there's requests for LART dollars to go to advertising, it has to go to the chamber. Why, just help me understand how it can be in this budget and then LART advertising has to go to, or LART dollars for advertising for the airport has to go to the chamber.

Well, you can do the weeds later with me if you want.

Thanks, Madam President. So this is obviously in the budget book, net increase of approximately 40.7 million for peak developer fees. I'm assuming that's what that is. So what is the value of the sale of the properties in total? What's the total? that you anticipate to get out of these deals, and you probably can't name specific names unless they have code names, but how many projects are we talking that you anticipate closing in 27? So let me unpack that a little bit. I can ask it in pieces if that's easier.

And so one project that I will name, because it's been discussed publicly anyway, is Project Honey Badger. Is that one of the ones that you anticipate? Yes, sir. Okay, so my understanding of that project alone is that it would bring about $60 million to the airport bottom line. Am I wrong in that?

So obviously I'm hearing some incorrect information somewhere out there. They may be combining some things. Where are we with the purchase and sale agreement for that project? My understanding as of now, it's on hold.

And so whether it's that project or any other project, your budget is predicated on land sales to help offset losses in operations, is that right?

Isn't that the whole purpose for having a business park associated with an airport? I mean, these are done all over the world and the reason is to offset the costs associated with operating an airport and subsidize the operational expenses.

So to indicate in the budget book that an increase of approximately 29.3 million in revenue, mostly due to planned sale of property, public parking and interest income, is that not really an accurate statement?

Yeah, I get that. But it seems to me that maybe one of the allowed uses of those revenues that I'm talking about would be for things like metro district expenses or other things associated with the property that was purchased through those FAA grants.

but not for just anything. So again, if sales don't go through the way that you're projecting they might in 2027, it seems to me that you have an underlying problem in terms of meeting some of the expense expectations for infrastructure that's been put in and maybe even paying off some stormwater management costs and some other things that have already been incurred. Is that true?

If they're operating, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but if they're operating expenses, that means you should be able to pay them now.

5:16:18 – 5:16:38•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

I don't see any questions. I'm waiting for those late button punchers before I conclude. Thank you. Thanks for the air show. It was very good. I know, I know, but we heard it. I hope you felt comfortable.

5:16:41 – 5:16:54•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

Thank you. You're welcome. That does look like that concludes our report out. So now we will have a wrap up with Charrette.

It's not necessarily a follow-up item, just more of a request. On the very beginning of the slides, the property tax slide and the question I had brought up specifically about the cap, if you can just add in there, especially for public purposes, what that percentage is. I know it's 3% locally. That way people don't get confused with what's happening at the state level with the 5.5 versus what we do here locally at 3%.

5:21:25 – 5:21:54•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

For sure. You can give us the timeline and then I'll just have staff collect them from each individual council member so that it's one sheet and not nine. Okay. That might help you. So if all of the council members can email or speak to staff what their specific requests are, then sure, I can get one email. And there might be multiple from... There might be one from multiple people, and that way you're not getting nine. Okay. And so we'll do that. For sure, just give us that date, though, so that we know. Right.

5:22:15 – 5:22:26•LCLynette Crow-Iverson

And on the hearing portion under wrap up, should I change that to rebuttal or should I keep it wrap up? Thank you. Thank you. All right. We are adjourned.