City Council Committee - Regular Meeting

All right, good afternoon. Sorry we're a little late. Today is, what is today? Thursday, October the 8th. That's right. Welcome to a special called Planning and Zoning Committee discussion over data center legislation. I'm gonna read the focus item for this meeting. But just to clarify, the Memphis City Council session from Tuesday is still in recess and do some things that were brought up regarding the legislation. Here we are. So the focus item, this is all available to the public. We can provide you copies. But the intent of the meeting today, and we're planning to go until four o'clock, if

The focus, discuss the proposed data center legislation listed in our meeting materials. That's gonna be all the ordinances that were held. And review the existing zoning framework with the Division of Planning Development. Of course, Attorney Wade is here as well. We're all looking for clarity. And that is why we held the items. That is why we're here today. So I'm actually gonna ask Councilwoman White to get us started. I know she had some questions from the meeting, and I believe we're gonna start off just kinda looking into Rhonda's ordinance. Though, and one more thing, as we work through

I just wanted to know from Director Ragsdale, right now in terms of permits and those things, are you able to give us how many are pending right now or if there are some pending permits or applications, things that are before you all for review as it pertains to data centers?

To clarify, for the two facilities that are already in operation, when you say building permits, are these permits regarding any expansions, changes to the building, what kind of permits are they?

Okay, and for you, for the ones that you're talking about now, are these pending ones, or are you saying what we have had in the past? These are pending?

And so that goes, my question was going to be for Attorney Wade. You kind of touched on it, and I know that President McGowan said that there would be about six months before anything went online with them. With the, and the reason I'm asking this is to kind of level set for what it is that we're getting ready to do here. In terms of what we're trying to regulate, even if it's an a pause, not a moratorium, whatever it is, what if any impact would it have to the application or permits that are currently in review?

Because nobody else can get into the business. Let me interject on that. This is why I'm so glad we're all here. So we were about to vote on something yesterday. And we're sitting here having this discussion, right? We need to be understanding these things before we pass legislation about something that's so important for all of us, including foremost the people that live right next door to the one that's already here before we examined or had an opportunity to examine anything. So I'm so happy we're having this discussion. And Attorney Wade, I'm going to offer this. So from what I can see, I

Well, I just wanted to just get one thing straight for the record, because this has been something that's been confusing. And this is not for my sake. I know the answer to it. But for the general public, in terms of anything that we pass, for instance, the moratorium that's being proposed, that will not stop existing operations. Is that correct?

And for the record, on the agenda at the next hearing, President McGowan is ready to come down here whenever to answer any and all questions that come out of this, because I know we've already referenced MLGW.

All right, we've got council members in the queue. This is great. Councilwoman Logan. Then Carlisle, Walker, Warren, and the chairwoman. Go ahead.

Thank you, Chair. And thank you for that opening, Ms. Away. I want to make sure that it's noted on record that we have a certain responsibility as the council. We have a certain jurisdiction and purview. And we're elected to ensure that we represent the constituents, represent our city, and our natural resources, and our land based on our purview. And the sooner we do that, the more the more energy and time we put into that, it's gonna be better for the constituents. And this thing about the moratorium, whether it's the moratorium or whether it's a year, whether it's 18 months, whether it's to

All right, thank you, Councilwoman. We've got Councilman Carlisle.

Thank you, Chairman. All right. So we have a very good framework for a lot of in-depth discussion, some news, some covering some older stuff, but bring it back up. I guess for me, instead of just diving in, my question is, can we just reframe where we are? Like, we're kind of starting the dialogue over, but we already kind of know where everybody's driving to, meaning, like, Director Ragsdale, in the standard use permit or the special use permit vernacular, in a general term, like, It's a wide net based on a definition in the UDC that triggers a series of events, broadly speaking, yes? And in

Well, I think people are scared. Well, excuse me. Yeah, no, go ahead, Chair. Let's have a conversation. Absolutely. Look, I agree with everything you said, but I think other council members are hearing from constituents, and I think That we're still learning the differences between the four pieces of legislation that people worked really hard on to try to do. And so I think we're all kind of going.

But is this a participation thing where it's like because they worked hard on it, we need to hear it? Or if we know that they're not going to do it, why are we being disingenuous about it? And again, the moratorium has been addressed. We know that there are certain things that we can't do. And I'm just trying to get us back to the business of the city as fast as humanly possible.

The problem— Okay, wait, pause there. So do we say that now?

They have to demonstrate that. But I want to ask Councilman Carlisle, do you know whose ordinance has that in the text? None of them. No. Yeah, I mean, with all due respect, he doesn't.

With all due respect, I don't have to know that.

That's why I've got counsel. Off the top of my head. But you're about to pass a law. I'm not about to do anything.

I'm making the law and I'm trying to get there.

That's exactly right. But do you want us to run?

Would you clarify what you said? With all due respect. Showtime is not my thing.

Location process, right? Correct. Okay. Yeah.

With new specifics that you've added. Yeah. Okay. Councilwoman Walker. Or wait, Councilman Carlisle.

Yeah, I mean, it still poses a question. Like, again, this thing's going to go for first reading today. It's going to come down to the, like, again, I'm happy, and I'm sorry I haven't memorized every document. It's not to be disrespectful. It's because I've listened. intently to each and every argument that has been made and again i'm just i'm not trying to disrespect the process i think we can have these information sessions and they're important but sometimes i think they are what causes us to get down so far into the weeds that we again forget at the very end what the outcome was which is w

And so the point is, why do we have to look at what's on the table now instead of just saying, hey, we've discussed this. These came out. There wasn't a lot of agreement.

I think maybe you missed the opening statement.

that's what we're doing is we're talking about the existing ordinance and all the other ones so that we can build a consensus it's just and maybe that but you'd actually did miss that so you know like I you know JB gave me grief for not being here you know I talked too much I talked too little like I'm in here because I want to drive this to resolution because in the weeks preceding up to it it seems like it's been a like difficult to do that and it's not a direction to you it's like Again, I want to do the work, but I don't have five days to give to this, like in a row. I don't. I don't have

And that's my wish is what I think people want, which is regulation as soon as possible.

I want to clarify what you're saying. So I want to understand. I want to understand what you were saying. It's very simple. Are you saying a special use permit is the way to go to?

It is the simplest thing. fastest and accomplishes the outcome to start and by the way no piece of legislation is perfect it is it should be watched it's going to change i mean i talked to somebody that sat in the room with the man for 30 minutes at a meeting and told me that in this person i have a huge amount of respect for said that guy is thinking on a totally different plane like again i say that to say that the world is evolving so rapidly it's going to need to evolve Like it's going to need time, but like this, but we wanna make it so complex that we just continue to kind of beat the bu

Attorney Wade, did you agree with that? Did you just say that you agree with that, but we need to continue the conversation?

So are you saying yes or no? Are you saying that the special use permit is the way to go, but yet we should continue to have these hearings that inform the public? And like you said, those are two things that can happen at the same time. So to get to the point to where we're protecting ourselves, what do we need to do? Point blank.

And at the same time, we can do the hearings for education. Absolutely. Educate the public, ask questions. Absolutely. Because the questions and the things that we're having a hearing on are not things that's under our jurisdiction anyways, but we are having this discussion.

And I think, look, I want to interject. I mean, we all watched on TV and heard of the announcement just like everybody else. And I think people tend to forget that. So that's, I'm excited that we're having these hearings. I understand where Councilman Carlisle is from because I wish we had all this done yesterday, you know? But that's the intent of these hearings, is exactly that, right? So for an example, on Tuesday, October 29th, we've got community environmental protections, noise, water, air quality, neighborhood infrastructure, presentations and discussions with MLGW, TVA, health department, TDEC. Anything else we want to put in here? Let me say one more thing. One thing I'll omit it. We'll also be able to say what we control and what we don't control.

Well, I have an electric car, so, you know, I don't make too much sound.

Will they be doing that? Will DPD, will they be making, I mean, that recommendation?

Their adequate may not be our adequate. We need an ordinance to determine our adequate.

So that's on the agenda to dive into next time. You see what I'm saying? We're going to tighten that up. Yes, and I'm sorry, I keep interjecting. Councilwoman Walker's in the queue next. I keep interrupting too. No, this is good. All right, so Councilwoman Logan's good. We're gonna go to Councilwoman Walker. And we're gonna keep doing this for another two hours and 15 minutes. So if we move fast, there's a lot of people in the queue. Go ahead, Councilwoman Walker.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I am glad that we are doing this today. I feel that it is overdue. And although I have been in support of the moratorium for the past three meetings, I just want to go on record and say, I feel that this process has been rushed, and we should have been doing something like this months ago, and that's not to throw anybody under the bus, and I hope it's okay for me to say it because I'm saying it, but... Mr. Ragsdale, you came before us. I was at home with my arm in a sling, but Councilwoman Cooper-Sudden asked you to come here and talk about zoning as it relates to data

So you're saying upon acquiring a parcel?

Okay, thank you. And then about the sound and the noise, so there's an opportunity, so anything that, any way that we would address the sound and the noise, would it be inside of this, what we're working on, or that would be something additional, outside, supplemental, too?

All right. Councilman Warren. Hey, actually, for the record, we've got Councilwoman Cooper Sutton, Councilman Warren, Councilwoman White, Councilwoman Logan, Councilman Canale is here. Madam Chair Swearingen-Washington, Councilwoman Walker, Councilman Ford. We've got the full body here. Councilman Smiley, Councilwoman Easter-Thomas, Councilman Carlisle. Oh, I'm so sorry. We're missing Councilwoman Green. So everybody, but Councilwoman Green. All right, Councilwoman Warren, go for it.

Thank you. You know, one of the things that I was hoping we were going to do is to get this information out about what Alan had done with all our ordinances. And I just want to make sure that the public understands that what we're doing is if within three readings that his ordinance law will be in place. Okay, and that allows us to have the DPD regulation of those. Is that correct, Alan? That's correct. So when we read that, so we're talking about Four weeks from now, we potentially are going to have ordinances that can control what we legally can control based out of all of our other ordinanc

Okay, so just for people who are looking for a moratorium, what we're telling you is we can have regulations in place in four weeks, and that's what we think we need to be able to pull off. Now, here's the thing that I want us to be able to think about while we're here, and I want us to be creative about it. And some of the things that Councilman Spinoza brought up about community benefit agencies, some of the things that the assessor brought up about how we can tax differently for use in the amount of money that comes through a facility. I mean, there are things that I think that we legally c

He said he wanted to hear his colleagues' comments.

He did, but he also asked, and I want to say something too, I promise. Attorney Wade, I felt like he directed a question towards you.

We would protect the legislation if we sent it to Nashville and tried to get it through.

Let me offer this, Councilman Warren, and I say this humbly. On this calendar, the fourth meeting is community benefits. So if you want to champion this, I know. What date is that? Let me finish real quick. JB's moratorium ordinance says capital fund and benefit concepts, operative fiscal terms. He had some stuff, he had language in there. Confirm fund contributions, do not assume a binding, half percent obligation. None of that is in Logan's, none of that was in yours, Councilman Warren's, and that's cool, I'm just saying factually. Spinoza's had a contractual 5% growth dividend with discreti

No, I mean, I think that it's, back to Councilman Carlisle's point, is where do we want to be? Okay, what do we want to have in place? We want less pollution, water protected. We want these facilities that are bringing us income, we want them to be able to come here safely. Okay, right now, everyone, the idea that the community has bought or been sold is that somehow if we pass a moratorium All the construction is going to stop on Colossus II. There's going to be no more air pollution, that everything's going to be fine, but that's not going to happen with the moratorium.

That's right, there's work to be done. There's nothing.

All that does is potentially damage our ability to get income into our city that we need. So in four weeks, we can do everything possible based on what our legal ability is right now. And I believe anybody who knows that is going to be Alan Wade, and that's what he's telling us. We're doing it. We're doing the work right now. So to do anything else to pacify people who are out there with incorrect information and are doing things for political purposes so they can win campaigns, you know, I mean, in my mind, you know, we have to be the grown-ups in the room.

Thank you, counsel. We have to be the grown-ups in the room. Thank you. I'm literally about to push mute. Thank you. All right, Councilwoman Walker.

So I like to think that I'm one of the grownups in the room. I know you are. And so let's, I just want to take a minute or two and talk about this thing about they're going elsewhere. Elsewhere where? Because wherever else they go, there will be a process. There will be a process. These entities are not going anywhere and just host up. so to me that comes across like a threat and then we never get names of these entities we never get names or locations or people we we never so this area for me in this whole process has always been questionable because we never get the who the what the when and

But with respect to Mississippi and the lawsuit, would they be offering people a buyout if they didn't think they were going to win the lawsuit?

All right, is that something that we can change, should change? add to the UDC, to the ordinance that's before us?

Can you confirm that for us the next meeting? All right. Yeah, right. Well, that's what happened last time. The comment was we still need to be notified again. We're not trying to serve as a block on growth and good things. Yeah, and this is all unprecedented stuff. So maybe we could look into that.

Of course not. Yeah, yeah. Hey, and I want to do this real quick because I want to ask you this. So on my ordinance, there's a moratorium that was indefinite. So just by acclamation, this is actually for the record, I want to make my ordinance expire on December 31st, 2026. That's reasonable. So that's done.

Yeah, so now for the record, that's on the individual one that I did, but let's hypothetically walk through it. It was a moratorium, but you were still allowed to do everything. The only thing that was a moratorium on was final approval. So that means that a business could come to us, a potential data center, go through all the processes,

Well, and I humbly see that as a compromise because... you know, doing that and putting that timeline on it. We already have essentially a moratorium that's 45 days or 90 days while the process is going, but it also protects us from somebody sneaking in under the old rules. And then once we get the process done, it could be four weeks.

Councilwoman Easter Thomas, she asked me when she was in the queue about 45 minutes ago. Sorry, Councilwoman Easter Thomas.

Yeah, I always got lots of notes. Thank you, Chair. I just have a few questions, and I guess they can all be geared towards Attorney White. And some of these have started to be talked about, but since we're in the thick of the sausage making, I figured it would help me with the thinking. So thank you to the staff who did the comparison and summaries, though, also. What's the proposed... an intended time frame of the ordinances, 5985 and 86. I heard Spinoza say end of the year. But is there like an intended time frame for ordinance 5986?

So 5, 9, 8, 6, just to clarify for the public, anybody watching this Councilman Warren's. Um, and then there was, I didn't see a number on Councilwoman Logan's. Um, if that's what you're asking on the report, we only had three. Or is this that so that may not if you've got numbers on five, nine, eight, two, which is a substitute ordinance.

That's the moratorium. That's J.B. Five, nine, eight, five, nine, and then five, nine, eight, six.

Ron, the one that was presented to us just Tuesday.

What number is that? I don't know that there was not a number yet. OK, but that's not the resolution mentioned. That's the resolution is Cooper Suttons, right? OK. So are we not considering Logan's ordinance? Which is 5982.

Is it the unnumbered one that we received Tuesday? The one that weighed comprehensive.

Mr. Chairman, would you mind cleaning up the record? Would you mind, Mr. Chairman, would you mind cleaning this up? Yeah, I'm about to.

I'm sorry. I was listening over here. Yeah, exactly. All right. So for the public who are watching us do this in real time, she didn't have an ordinance number assigned to hers yet because we recessed in the magical way that we did two days ago. So here we are, and we're talking about her ordinance without a number, and we just found out, we all did in real time, that it's 5-9-8.

Okay, and it's first reading on consent.

Okay, so back to the question. I'm still in the queue. Oh, let's not get... Come on. 5985? You have... It's four ordinances and one resolution.

Yeah. 1, 2, 2, 5, 8, 2, 8, 5, 8, 6, 8, 7, 8, 8. So five ordinances and a resolution.

Five ordinances and a resolution. And from what Attorney Wade just said, the resolution has been bundled into... No, no, no. No? Okay. Okay, never mind. So the resolution stands alone.

Okay. Back to that helps the question there. Well, the first question. So what is the proposed and intended time frame? I guess this is towards the makers of these ordinances for y'all's ordinances.

Yeah, so I'll start mine was after third reading approval. everything would go. But once J.B., Councilman Smalley had his, mine was introduced, Warren's was introduced, now Logan's, so we're holding them.

No, I'm sorry. Time frame is in for how long it would take of what you put in the ordinance to actually become law and regulation.

So like the moratorium is clear, 18 months, but what's the time frame for every? Okay.

So I had a moratorium in mind, indefinite.

Yes, Councilwoman Logan is saying that within hers, and we mentioned this earlier, hers had a 45-day analysis period and then a 90-day final period to where it's done, right?

OK. So out of those five, which ones include a moratorium? Because earlier in discussion, more than two talked about a pause. So which ordinances actually have a moratorium?

um so it was just so so three of them have a moratorium no no okay so let's explain the difference in a pause and a moratorium there yeah yeah a moratorium well they're about the same so three of them got a moratorium

Yeah. Hers did not use the word moratorium. It just said 45 to 90 days. But she mean, but it's a moratorium. Essentially.

Okay, just making sure. I just want to make sure because I'm sure these are the same questions we might have going on, but especially if we have five different ones, it makes sense to see which ones they actually look at that are saying the same thing. So does yours, Wade, that you put together comprehensive, does that have a moratorium or a pause in it?

And I want to move to amend it to now, but I'm going to wait.

Because in all honesty, as we work through this, I think everybody's seeing what we all agree with. And so I feel like yours is leading the way. Sorry.

Because three out of five sound like a majority. So another question is, so for the UDC update, and this is 5-9-8-6. So is this saying that the zoning regulation will be included in the UDC update or will it have to be added later? And I guess that might be for Wade and Rex.

separate from the UDC update? Yes. Okay, but codified into the actual UDC? Okay. Can you and this is accent different questions about the particulars of the separate ordinances to you, Attorney Wade. Can you tell us for ordinance 5982, which is the original moratorium by smiling, what is legally risky about it? And with it, does the exit clause not help the legal risk if there isn't?

Who says reasonable? The judge? Yes, a judge. The judge decides what's reasonable.

In your opinion, do you think that reasonable, reasonability gets helped by the exit clause? or that's still up to judge's determination if we have to cross there.

But this is what the legal things may say.

Okay. Okay. Thank you. Next question. Outside of the original ordinance 5982, the other four, are community benefits language...

Nah, not right now. Not right now, attorney. Wait.

All right, turn away. I'm still in the queue. So for I know for these zoning and permit regulations, this is a question possible. Not trying to get any trouble here. But if we're doing zoning and permit regulations, and if we are considering making data center special use, because that's what it would be. I know that we cannot grandfather in Places, companies, entities that are already present.

That's what you're saying. Yeah. I hate that term also, but I couldn't think of another term, but I hate it. So we can't un-grandfather them in. And it applies to expansions, but not current. Is there something that can go in special use permits that are time-based renewals of zoning or permits within special use? Has it been done before?

Time-based renewals. No, we can't. Can't do like every two years you have to renew your permit. No, man. What about continuous operation? Like if they stop for a certain amount of time, Is there something that, oh, you stopped for 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, now you have to re-go through this process that we put in and your un-grandfather status doesn't help you in this?

And this succession plan would apply to everyone, not just those who are after the time period of when the zoning came in place.

Okay. Can I use my time for his one question? And I got one last question. It's in the same vein.

It's just on that same thing about, what about transfer of beneficial ownership? It's like we treat hotels or assign... where they're basically non-conforming, but they've become grandfathered in or whatever. If I transfer my ownership in the hotel, I still have to come back and get re-approved, right?

Last question, Chair. Any of these five ordinances or resolutions, can the state preempt or override any of these?

And which one is it? 5, 9, 8, 6, 8, 7? Yes. The one you did? Yeah. That's the only one they probably could withstand? Is it because it doesn't mention a moratorium or because it just specifically does zoning for special needs?

Alright, so we've got an hour and three minutes left. We've got 12345 council members in the queue. I'm loving it. We're legislating today. Councilwoman Cooper Sutton.

Thank you, Chair. My main and my biggest concern is zoning. And I want to know how quick can we, how fast, because this is very critical, can we get these out of the neighborhoods of 38109, 38113, 38127, 38107, and 38109. I know zoning is where we have our legislation power. I mean, it's just so much with these numbers that are going on, but I want to focus on how are we going to maneuver and get these out of our black, predominantly black, high industrial, out of these black communities and near from our schools. How fast, how soon can we start working on this part?

So we're just, in the zoning part, we're just going to

I understand that, but they need to be out of our communities. They need to be resolved.

Okay. Well, as long as we can get this done quickly, the permitting part, that's what we have control over, right? Okay. And so we can pause the permitting part. I mean, we can regulate. We can have eyes on the permitting part of it.

But it'll still be in these industrial places. Is that what you're saying?

That's what we're doing here together for the next four weeks.

I'm trying to find the source of that annoying sound. Sorry. First time that's ever happened. All right. Councilwoman White.

So I wanted to find out. So I think we're two things. One, now look at the camera when I say this, and I hope that you all play it. Because even some of my colleagues on this body has made it as if we have delayed or attempted to delay a moratorium. And I hope that after this working session that people realize that we have more in common than we did differences. And had that moratorium gone forward on Tuesday, it likely would have failed simply because we didn't take the time and do what we're doing right now. But back to this, my question is, if we take the one we have from Allen, which look

You better be wasting taxpayers' dollars. We don't have any money right now. I'm sorry.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Councilwoman White. You good, Councilwoman White? No, I just have one.

And so for the going forward, what we have here, what we need to do, a separate resolution for... the pause, like how would it need to work in terms of the necessary pause that needs to happen? Will we be able to amend?

You're talking about, so let's just say the new one, and let's just toss the numbers out.

on the 5987, where it talked about, and this is the question that Nadia talked about, the industrial, and since you're here, I want to ask you, you know the spot where the gas station, it wanted to come in District 1, that it was industrial at Fraser Raleigh and O'Allen, and it said I, and I was like, why is this I right here in this residential area? And since this process has started, there are a number of those areas in the city. So if we go blanket industrial, will that cover, I mean, how is that going to fare?

So we'll talk about that Monday, October 19th. Yeah. I'm looking at you, man. All right. Councilman Smiley. Councilman Smiley.

Really, hey, Mike, please, Alan. Alan, microphone, microphone, please, yeah.

Councilman. Hey, if you don't mind yet, I wasn't talking to you right now, but I'm asking you to explain just a little bit to the body. Cause I think people are trying to understand.

Thank you. That just clicked with attorney way.

Let me ask Brett this and Attorney Wade. So tomorrow, if a data center wanted to come to Memphis, could they build and start like the way it did last time and just go right next to a neighborhood?

Okay. No. Okay. So we're pursuing 5987, which is... That's right. Hold on. So real quick, the question was we still have to vote on it. So 5987 was what was presented to us as going for first reading tonight, right? Once first reading, the gavel was banged this afternoon, that can't happen again?

Okay. So, and I made a... an acclimation, so I made an acclimation on my ordinance that's one of the one that's being held to where there's a moratorium until December 31st, 2026. So we would have to add an amendment to 5987. Okay, that's all, I'm just throwing that out there. All right, okay, okay. Council, well, and that's, and thank you. Yeah, that's what we're here to figure out together. So anyways. This is good.

And it puts a timeline on us to do our work is what I humbly think. But am I talking out loud? We have an hour and five minutes left. We've got four council members in the queue. We've got Councilman Warren, Carlisle, Councilwoman Walker, then Councilwoman Logan. So Councilman Warren.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I just want us to try to remember what we're trying to get to and what we've got. So what Alan just said, if we're considering legislation, okay, that already has, you know, the ability to pause anything coming through, then we're protected. Is that correct, Alan? Okay. And right now, not only are we considering your legislation, but we've got two others that are in there that are on pause now that we've been looking at that have moratoriums, Councilman Smiley's and Councilman Spinoza's. So we're already protected because we're still considering those legislations. Is that correct?

Okay, so no one can come in and put a data center in while we're considering those things. When we do your legislation, let's say we pass that in two weeks, okay, is there anything more that we can do to actually prevent data centers from coming here legitimately. Councilman Smiley was acting or thinking or trying to figure out how we could block data centers, because that's what this is about. People are scared of AI, they don't want data centers, they don't want the things that come with them, All we can do is regulate where those things go, like the noise and other stuff. And we're looking

Real quick, just to clarify. It's our legislation.

Passing the one you brought, the combination legislation.

Okay, and we have no legal authority to do that. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay, so what's going on is our community has been fooled into thinking somehow. No, no, JB. Say my name. I didn't say your name.

We've had a great, we've had a great, we've had a great, let's go. Hey, councilman, I'm going to let you, I'm a councilman, but let's keep other councilmen, I mean, come on.

If I misspoke, Councilman Filey, could you tell me how I misspoke, sir?

All right. Hey, real quick. You're muted. Real quick. I just want to say this. Councilman Warren, I want you to reply to him. I want you to reply to him and just y'all keep it cool. We're going to keep going after this. Okay. Thank you.

So what I was trying to say is part of what you said was our community wants to ban data centers. I didn't say you said that. I said that's what's out there is people don't want them. So that was the point I was making. And we do not have the ability to do that. And a lot of people seem to think we do. It's not within our purview. So if we can't do something legally, And we've got people out there trying to get the community to think we can. That's a bad thing. Thank you. I'm still going. Councilman Spiley spoke for 20 minutes and I spoke for three minutes so far.

I've been interrupted twice. We've got Councilman Carlisle.

Do you have a question regarding legislation?

But I was talking to our attorney about that. Okay, go ahead. And I'll bring it back again. If we're unable to ban data centers, what is the quickest way we can regulate data centers? Is that to pass the ordinance that you brought that combined the legal things we can do as a council? Can you use the mic, sir? Okay, so I want us to hear that because we're still in the idea that somehow if we do this moratorium, that's going to do something other than this. So we should just do what will get us there more quickly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for explaining that. All right, council, we've got Councilman Carlisle, then we've got Councilwoman Walker and Logan. Carlisle.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can we step back to vested rights? Because I think that's a key point that I want to understand a little bit more. I understand at a layman's level, when we're going through zoning applications, if I'm going to change zoning on the underlying rights, like the actual property rights, I'm getting those rights vested in me, but if I'm buying land that's already zoned industrial land, Is it still the same vesting rights because I'm going through the permitting process? Where's the nuance there for me?

So the trigger in and of itself is the application under the current rights, other than if it were zoned something else, because then they'd have to go through that, yeah. All right, so this goes back to the question of, like, the economic environment, right? And the question of, like, will you apply? I got a question downstairs, like, would you apply and rush? And I think the question is, it depends. Like, it goes back to, like, what the administration will do, too, right? Like, so under Mayor Strickland, things were under review for quite some time. I just don't know that process nuanced eno

Attorney Wade, you got an answer for that one?

All right. Great point, Councilman Carlisle. I mean, all right, we've got Councilwoman Walker.

Attorney Wade, and anyone who wants to respond, with everything that we're considering today, which is the best path to renewable energy? Because I know that there are some things that are not...

And that would fit best in yours or whose? That's in mine. Okay.

Okay, and finally, so what I'm thinking in terms of percentages, you know, or maybe even on a sliding scale, by in so many years you're 35% renewable or starting out, you need to be at least 20% renewable. So I'm thinking along those lines, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that.

Okay, thank you. And one more thing. To the media, can you all do a story on renewable energy for data centers? There's a lot of things that you all have not been reporting on as it relates to this, and there's tons of information out there. There are many, many data centers across the U.S. that are operating using renewable energy, some of them 100%, as well as internationally. And finally, China has a data center that is completely underwater. Thank you. I yield the floor.

We've got one more. Thank you, Councilwoman. We've got one more councilmember in the queue, Councilwoman Logan, and then we'll wrap it up. Councilwoman Logan. Thank you.

Thank you. I wanted to say, even though the data centers currently are mostly out south, this process is about the entire city, because there are other areas in our city that are vulnerable. So because it started in the south part of the city, it caused me as a legislator to look at my district, to look at the people that I answer to and what's important to them as well. And the same things that are important to those that live in your district, Councilwoman Walker, are important to people that live in my district. And so looking at this holistically is not the South or the North or where, it'

Thank you. All right. So with that, here's the plan. We're going to have another meeting as a body, hopefully again on Monday, October the 19th. The agenda is community environment protections, noise, water, air quality, neighborhood infrastructure impacts, MLGW, TVA, health department, EDGE, and other relevant industry experts. Thursday, October 22nd, community voices, public engagement. Tuesday, October 27th, community benefits and economic growth, and then address any outstanding items. So if council members have questions, amendments they want to make, obviously we'll make them today, but

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, everybody, for being here today. All right, this meeting is adjourned.