City Council - workshop

The planning board on the RV moratorium with discussions of how to move forward as any candidate. And then the TIF task force, I have no real details on that one. So I'm going to launch this. Charlie?

One other question you can address as you move forward. Is there, I guess I'd be interested in looking at if we could do options one and two, and if there's value in doing that. I see those as distinct, trying to address specific issues versus the larger scale option.

And maybe related to this part of the conversation it would be helpful for me maybe for other members of the council who are here to better understand when we had this issue before the council there was code speak about maybe there's an existing campground that maybe is going to do an expansion we have no information and so we moved ahead with the one that we've got I'm hearing second and third hand that there actually is something so I love whatever clarity there might be on on that piece that Councilor Lyons is trying to address with Part 2. I don't have enough information to understand what

Have you had conversations? Are you aware of?

So where to operate is the problem there.

So where does, so that language came from? It came from the moratorium. I understand it's in the moratorium. I'm looking for what the logic was in including that word. We work in both. We work in both.

And did legal rights issues on that? Again, I think it was discussed. I don't think so.

So we can look at, we've only got four councillors, but we've got a good turnout from the planning board. Is anyone interested in option three?

I would say that wasn't our intention when we were going through. And again, where this is a workshop, no decisions being made, or no votes being taken.

So others can address why it was gone towards before the vote. I wasn't there at the August meeting where that was decided, but... The idea was, I think, that there was a problem. From my understanding, the planning board said to the folks who were concerned, we can't do more, according to the fact that you won't go to city council. And they did. And the conversations, as you know, pursue from there. I'm frustrated that we had this reviewed by legal. And thank you for the recollection that legal said the word operate does not do what we think it does. I don't know what we do with that piece of

So if we're looking to be helpful to planning staff on what do we do with this thing, it looks like this time there's no interest in having you invest in number three. And with number one, it's the, I'm consistently hearing two things. It's the performance standards and the definitions so that we know what we're talking about. Is that doable within that two to three months at a minimal cost?

So I had, you know, after the meeting, the council meeting, listening to folks who were talking, and then there were just a few people left in the room, and it was... Is it the wife of the property owner? I can't remember names, but I think she was his wife. And she said, what I want to say to the neighborhood association is tell us what you are comfortable with and we'll do it. We don't want to go through this again. So that's, I think, that to me was a really telling point. I wish that conversation had happened or that, and I don't know how much of it had happened, but that's the energy on..

So I'll say part of my frustration with this, too, before our meeting, I went to the planning board site, and the most recent recordings were months old. I couldn't find any information about this. So I understood when the neighbors were saying, we don't know what's going on. feel like they're responding to what we're doing. And I know that the website is one of many things that we don't have the capacity to bring 100% up to where it should be.

I understand that it's everybody. We're all dealing with a community board capacity and yet here we are. Totally get it. But I can see that that was a challenge. I couldn't get up to speed on it in time. Getting back to offering direction to the planning board.

I'm going to interrupt for a minute. Brittany, is that your computer that might be doing feedback? Or Charlie, is that you?

Thanks. And I think to what Pat's saying, can you outline what you see in those bullet points?

And will that help with the conversation we've had about attend versus? No. The state does not differentiate between the two. Do we need to or not? Well, currently, our ordinance does not.

And that seems to make sense. But I think it's still a question about whether we subcategories depending on the performance standards. I would think the performance standards are going to be different depending on the activity.

There was talk that night about there's another one. Again, all the hearsay just confuses everybody.

I thought we made progress on that. That number three is off the table or since at this point. It's a very awkward situation where there was a campground looking to expand. But also, if this can get done in two to three months, that may not be hardship. so we're back to the option one and I'd love to see a legal opinion on the word operation that they can't operate because that was brought up and we were told by by legal that's not an issue would love to have that clarity for the planning board and for staff in case something happens and if it is an issue and somehow that was in error then we

seeing where there are issues and bringing those small spots up to... And the two that come to my mind in addition to this, there was the noise issue, and I wondered if our existing noise ordinance is sufficient, and we just need to make sure that that's there for them to know. And then lighting was another one that came up that night, and I don't know what to do.

And what percentage of the geography is the two combined? What's that? What's the percentage of those two combined?

It has some weird overlay of other places.

It is a decision to encourage housing specifically and making it without the cost of land being a barrier. I want to bring us back to the guidance we need to give tonight, even though I love these conversations that are there. Lisa brought up the other concern that was brought up at the neighborhood is smoke and campfires and fires spreading. We have an odor ordinance.

Do we have anything like that for any other, sorry, commercial, like the malls?

Well, I think this is an opportunity to refresh, update this ordinance if there are 13 components to it. I would assume you've already looked at them to see where there might be issues.

So you're talking about the height of the flames because they're 20 foot tall.

So the last thing that I want to raise is there was talk about transportation and the RVs on the roads, but DOT... has expertise in this, and they deem that to be sufficient road.

So it feels like that's along with the other things where you said water usage was covered, sewage was covered.

We've got two conversations going on. So, Rick. Sorry. No, I know it's hard for you.

There was heightened concern. I hear that. Heightened concern. Do you want to get a perspective from someone who knows traffic? So let's get back to what you all are looking for. So have you got what you are in the sense from this amount of the council? The only thing I can see for Charlie beyond, of course, supporting you all, is that clarification that operating the lawyer set, that does not mean we're shutting them down. And if we do this in two to three months, then we're not impinging on anyone who theoretically in the future might come forward with a proposal to expand or have a new one. Does that address concerns? Go ahead, Charlie.

I know when I voted for it, this was my intention, what you're looking at now.

And the one thing I'm curious about as you go forward is will you see a need for categories of campgrounds. A two pop-up tent campground is very different from an RV camp.

Thank you. I'll just add, as we wrap up, this is the only, the second time Planning Board and Council has met together. And I hope there are opportunities to do more of this in the future.

More than you could ever want. I don't know. You don't know how many I really want.

And it'll be the different half each meeting.

It goes back to the general fund reform.

Do you know what I'm saying? And I think that the TIF funds, there wasn't a lot of discussion of using them until recently because I think, like everything else, an abundance of caution to make sure that, like, do we have a plan? Is there a strategy? And now that we've got staff in place, so letting it sit while we, you know, the reveal that's had to happen in the city staffing infrastructure to get the caliber we've got, now we're ready to deploy. That's my sense of any weighting that came with how to deploy this, is to make sure we get it right.

So the one yes to all of that. on bringing it to council. Please, in your memo, link to the TIF documents or the TIF webpage so that we remember where to find all of the information that's there. And then also, because I think this is the first time that credit enhancement agreements are gonna be part of a hearty discussion for the council, a really good explanation as to what they are. It's different from TIF. They might be more... I'm trying to think of the right word for it. There's a different level to it that we want to make sure you're ready to answer questions and you have information a

And I think really being able to give that outline of why is giving tax dollars to a private developer a good idea, and being able to really lay that out. People may agree or disagree, but at least to have that basis of understanding ready for folks.

And again, a lot of it is just trying to understand why is this not a giveaway? How do we avoid it being a giveaway? That it has to be for public benefit and the project wouldn't help, wouldn't happen without it, all of that. I think it's going to be really important to highlight that. I want to throw a thought into the membership. And because the TIFs are about investing in the future, I'm not aware of any committees or commissions where we have a youth member. And I see that this goes down to 18, but that's not really youth. So if you would think about how ad hoc members...

And I like that advisor role, because they're the ones that we're building this for. and making sure that the city's, a kid who's growing up here. I love that. And from away, but let's focus at least for here. A kid who's here, what is it going to take for you to want to stay and raise your family here? Jobs, a place to live, a cool place where I can enjoy myself. Interesting. So I would encourage you to think about that as well.

It's a really good point, but the rules could be different for youth advisors. We could put an annual appointment.

Thank you. Anything else in prep for the November meeting for this?

There was a story in the BDN, I think it was the BDN, last week about Freeport all of a sudden having these huge housing projects come in because they have done their ordinances and zoning work and it's like now it's ready. And I feel like we're there with the TIF as a huge piece of... one of the tools that we've got to encourage.

All right, there are no members of the public here for a comment. We have staff hanging in because they love to be here. That is a genuine smile.

I'd say this really is the only economic development tool. I mean, this is how.