Housing and Land Use Committee (2025-2027) - Regular Meeting

Will the Disaster Recovery International Affairs and Planning Committee return to order? The time is now 9.04, and this is a reconvened meeting of the October 5th recess meeting. If everyone can please silence their cell phones or other noise-making devices, that will help our cause. Members, in accordance with the Sunshine Law, if you are not in the Council Chambers, please identify by name who, if anyone, is in the room, vehicle, or workspace with you today. Minors do not need to be identified. Also, please see the last page of the agenda for information on meeting connectivity. My name is T

Kia aloha. Say it again. Kia ora na. Kia ora na. Well, aloha. Good morning, Chair. Good morning. I'm here in the chambers and looking forward to today. Thank you.

And we have Council Member Gabe Johnson is excused for right now, should be with us shortly. Kia ora na Council Chair Lee and aloha kakaiaka.

Aloha kakaiaka and kia ora na. I'm home alone in my workspace.

Thank you. Next up we have Council Member Keani Rollins Fernandez. Kia ora na and aloha kakaiaka.

Aloha kakahiaka, Chair. I'm at my private residence. It's fall break, so I have my husband, McKenna Fernandez, and my two minor-aged children home with me. They'll be, like, home and in and out. Mahalo, Chair.

Thank you. And we also have Councilmember Shane Sinensi, Kiel Orana, and aloha kakahiaka.

Kia ora na, Chair, and aloha kakaiaka. I'm here also at my private residence, Chair.

Okay. And also we have Community Vice Chair Nohelani Uu Hadjens. Kia ora na and aloha kakaiaka.

Aloha, Chair. Aloha, everyone. Similar to Member Rollins-Fernandez, it is clearly fall break. My husband just came home this morning and we have three minors at home with us as well.

Thank you. Thank you. I wanted to also wish Nahiku a happy sweet 16th birthday today.

He's probably still sleeping. Happy birthday, Nahiku.

This meeting of the Disaster Recovery International Affairs and Planning Committee of the Maui County Council is located on the traditional ʻāina of the kanaka o ʻiwi who never ceded their sovereignty to the United States. We recognize that Her Majesty Queen Liliuokalani yielded the Hawaiian Kingdom to the U.S. in duress under threat of violence to avoid the bloodshed of her people. We further recognize that Hawaiʻi remains an illegally occupied nation state by the U.S., as documented in a 2021 scholarly article for the National Lawyers Guild Review by Andrew Reid, adjunct professor of law. at

Oh, so how did it come to be known that?

Okay. I'm sorry. Sure. Mr. Ramirez, can you put up the lipoa on the screen for everyone to see? Again. Okay, so... That area that you see 100% shaded in red, is it because they've already developed into the buffer? Or what was supposed to be the buffer?

So kind of those black lines going through the parcel, the red parcel should be transit-oriented corridor instead of open space.

Okay. So we don't know why this particular project district or parcel is different from all the other ones where gulches were open space or drainage ways or streams.

Members, did you want to hear the conversation at the planning commission level? Okay, we would like to hear the conversation at the planning commission level that led to the open space being taken out.

Oh, that's why our people don't like us to do consensus, I guess. I guess maybe for Mr. Hopper, does having even the gulches and drainageways designated transit-oriented corridor mean that they can develop inside of the gulches or drainageways?

Okay. At this time, I'd like to recognize Council Member Gabe Johnson joining us to the proceedings. Kia ora na and aloha kakahiaka.

Kia ora na, Chair, Council Members, committee members. Sorry for my tardiness. I had a doctor appointment, but I'm here and ready to work. Thank you.

Thank you. So even with a transit-oriented corridor designation throughout the entirety of the Maui Research and Technology Park, from what Mr. Hopper said, there's other allowances to restrict development inside the gulches, the 100-foot buffer that other locations have notwithstanding. Ms. Komkowicz, did you have the Planning Commission Conversation regarding this.

unedited version okay um so let me find the one that is the official version because this is a little bit messy okay so um if we did want to put the coaches as open space back in we could do that too is that correct mr hopper

We'll come back to this one when she finds the document. Okay, moving on to page four of attachment 3B. There's three parcels in Waipu'ilani Makai of Pi'ilani Highway, which were changed from residential to open space. Mr. Weltman, do you have any background to provide us on why or how these three parcels change from residential to open space for Waipui Landing Gulch?

Mr. Ramirez, can you put up the picture? Okay. Do we know the ownership of the parcels?

Okay. Member Cook? Yes, Chair. Those are the four parcels that I've been advocating and working with the administration. They're for sale $6,150,000 for all four of them. Got to close by the end of the year because of the owner's situation. They reduced the price substantially. It's probably still overpriced because it's a drainage. But he did have entitlements, et cetera, et cetera. But I'm hoping the administration pulls the trigger and actually purchases those properties. It's critical that... We have control over it. We don't have to get a right of entry. This ping-pong back and forth of l

Okay, so I'll look it up and interpret it rather than get an answer?

It's open space does. drainage and getting in and fixing it up and addressing all the issues that meet within open space guidelines.

The community plan designation that we receive for open spaces is intended to preserve and manage lands for native Hawaiian traditional and customary uses while protecting sensitive ecological resources, scenic resources, drainage ways, and green belts. Open space areas support natural processes such as flood management and erosion control so it fits in um i guess legally although we haven't purchased it yet and we intend to purchase it by the end of the year it's okay to do open space even i guess we may not um pass the plan before the end of the year and so then

will know by the end of the year if we purchased it.

If we're unable to seal the deal, then is it still okay for us to designate a community plan open space or would we be prohibited from doing that?

I want to apologize if my question sounded rude the way I said it. I guess what I'm getting at is the digging out, the excavation and removal of sediment because that's not Hawaiian practices. That's like it is flood management. I don't know if grading permits and SMA permits would be involved. Maybe it's just too deeply in the weeds. I just want it on the record that is a very, very problematic part of our community that has been addressed, but we need to address it. So whatever land use would enable us to continue to do for the community to the best of advantage, open space is great. That's

So like taking the sediment out is like protecting the drainage way, so that would be allowed?

And Member Cook, I hear that you've been working with the administration on the acquisition. We did allocate some monies the past few budgets for wetland acquisition. Is that these properties that you've been working on?

Correct. Member Sininci, I believe initially allocated $5 million and I believe we added to it. So yes, I believe the funding has been allocated. As last year, we did $3.5 million for the north end of the collector, south end of the collector road that also has a flooding issue. So I believe the funding has been allocated. It's simply a matter of the negotiations and et cetera.

And have you gotten a recent update? Are they fairly closed? Does it look like that they can close by the end of the year?

The asking price is under the... raised value, and it's a matter of getting the 9th floor to have that sense of urgency. They're contemplating it. I haven't. Anyway, I'm voicing hope. I'm hopeful that they'll pull the trigger no later than November. It's a unique situation, probably not appropriate to talk now, but I'm hopeful. I have confidence they will.

I guess let this body know how we can assist because we're aware of the pictures we got from Mr. Kalanikawa on the flooding. And I do recall when Mr. Savio was proposing development here and there was big outrage because of the frequent flooding. So let us know if there's anything that we can do. So this one may be a revisit depending on county acquisition before the adoption of the plan. So if it looks like it's going forward, I think no problem with open space if it's still his land and it falls through. I don't know that we can do open space. So that's, I guess, depending on what happens in

Okay. Page 5 was the 27 undeveloped parcels that we had previously spoken to that spread across sub area 3, 4 and 5. So.

So it makes sense that the community plan designation would be residential and small town center. Then if the zoning is mostly residential or one apartment, for um on page six of attachment 3b for the honua ula wailea 670 um The CPAC accepted the map that was prepared for the Planning Department based on Planning Commission October 2022 approvals. The Planning Commission requested that the Department confirm the accepted Planning Commission map and make adjustments accordingly. And that's where exhibit 53 comes into play, which is number... Shoot, where's my crosswalk? Exhibit 53 is attachment

Um, Ryan, is it possible to show attachment eight on your screen? This has, um, all the sites and whatnot, but this is the map provided by, or it's the commission accepted map for Honuaula. And those blue blobs are the approximate location and size of site retention basins. The small little dots are, looks like state inventoried historic preservation. sites, the little red dots, the little green dots are cultural use sites. And there's one portion that says site 407751 features. And I believe I'm not sure where that corresponds to. And then there's a temporary ID number site. It's kind of weir

Oh. So they adopted a map with the fire station on top of a drainage basin?

Thank you chair. I think this is a good example of the complexity of a project. The importance of us putting things there. So if the drainage is there, and the conflict is there. It just sort of showing that the actual. Like, before they do when they go, they're doing the development, they're getting all the drugs and plants. This will all be ironed out. In my interpretation, they have to do a fire station, and if it has to be moved, it'll be moved, and they have to do the proper drainage. So it being overlapping like that wouldn't give them the opportunity to not do it. It just would have to

Yeah, yeah. I don't know if you can show at the same time page 99 of the draft plan which has the Honua'ula area of change. And I do see the Miko expansion and the fire station as a section that gives public quasi-public, but I don't see on the map in the book on page 99 representation of all the retention basins. So was that kind of the intent for exhibit 53 to show where, is this like where the retention basins are planned or where they exist?

Oh, so they don't exist yet, but that's where he plans to put the, or they plan to put them. Yes, that is where they are planned. Okay. And so are we confident that the public quasi public, um, is where it should be if they plan to put a retention basin where the fire station was going to be put?

Member Cook and then Mr. Weltman, or Mr. Weltman go first and then Member Cook.

Oh, okay. Oh, that round thing is a tank. That blue portion on this South Maui map, it seems like there's an extra rectangle. yeah so that's i think where the fire station was planned to go is just under that darker green dot on the upside yeah right there and that's also where the retention basin was situated kind of along the edge of that straight line so i'm not sure if that other side of the property with the water tank the round white with a blue shade dot is Honua'ula property as well. But yes, Mr. Weltman.

Oh, that's Wailea Golf property. That other side of the street line where his cursor is on. So the Wailea Gulf abuts the Honuaula. When you guys, when you got this map during the Maui Planning Commission, was it, who was the developer's representative? Mr. Chip Chase?

And then did the planning commission ask about the affordable housing being placed on a large retention basin and the fire station being placed on an intended retention basin?

Thank you, Chair. I think this kind of shows the zoning open space based on the map, the challenges to do it like that. I think having the criteria clearly outlined is important.

More like form-based code or something where you put a fire station somewhere on there.

And I share people's concern about the opportunity we have now versus later. And I think that basically, planning department, council, public works awareness, somehow, someway hold everybody accountable, but actually being pragmatic and realistic. So from my perspective, the affordable housing or workforce housing that they're gonna build needs to be in a really desirable spot. And so they haven't proposed it yet because they haven't done all of the, they've done a preliminary master plan. That's where we can really push back as far as where it goes. That needs to be in a good spot. The fire s

I don't think we got to the Wailea Gulf part yet, but... No, but I mean, there's just the map that we're looking at, the two blue rectangles there. Okay. So when you're seeing that this Honua'ula Drainage Master Plan depicting preserved sites was adopted by the Planning Commission as the official map, were the... retention basins designated by any particular color are null.

Okay. Well, we can get to the Wailea Gulf one when we get to it. We're just on the Honuaula portion or the Wailea 670 portion. And for that, on Exhibit 53 or the Planning Commission accepted map, I guess the question is, are the are we not depicting the drainage basins on the planning commission adopted map? And like, so what was the point of exhibit 53?

And we don't have any, like the retention basins wouldn't be like community plan open space designation. It could still be residential, even if that's where the retention basins are proposed.

Okay. I guess then, members, before we make our final decision on this map, shall we send a transmittal to Mr. Chip Chase asking about the proposed fire station location and affordable housing project and their proximity or overlap of retention basins as shown in their drainage master plan that was provided to the Planning Commission Exhibit 53. You guys do want to send a transmittal or?

Staff, can you? Okay, we'll send the transmittal and hopefully get some clarification before we have to make a vote.

Could we also send something to Public Works and ask them about the drainage, how their South Maui drainage plan, if they address this at all? Putting detention basins in now on that property is like throwing darts on a wall. it's like a detention basin is basically going to be done with the surveying on the property and the addressing the roads and all of the different stuff because the water is going to go to a spot and they're going to detain it so that it can drain. And so it's not something that's feasible to do now. Making it a requirement, which is, I think, Public Works on their gradin

So you wanna draft a letter to Public Works asking about how Honua'ula's drainage master plan correlates to their regional master plan, drainage master plan?

All right. So, um, We'll have to find out some more information on that before making an informed decision. Okay, next, sub area four, Wailea Beach Marriott. The CPAC changed the parking garage parcel from small town center as it was designated by the planning department to resort hotel. Mr. Weltman, any background on that change for us?

Mr. Ramirez, can you bring up that TMK for us? Okay, so it's currently a parking garage and Under the Kihei Makena plan, if you can show us, it looks like it's commercial or business commercial or mixed-use residential, something along, no, commercial. So they'd like it to go to hotel. Would this allow them to then, I guess, can you show us what the zoning is on that parcel as well? Looks like B1 Business Resort. Okay. So with a community plan designation of resort hotel, it is clear that potentially the parking garage is used for resort hotel uses, it wouldn't necessarily allow them to build

So it's as though we're departing completely from the Kihei Makena policy that it be maintained as a parking garage by giving them community plan designation hotel or...

Thanks, Chair. I don't see how it would really be a small town center to begin with if it's just a parking garage. I'm unsure how it benefits like the small town feel in Wailea as its existing parking. Also, it's 2.4 acres. So the idea of having like a resort on there is somewhat unfeasible with a smaller piece of property, but also... As Ms. Conkwitch just said, when you permit a hotel, you have to provide parking. So unless they're going to either demolish that as a parking structure, which, as we just heard, can't do, and buy another piece of property to accommodate what's already existing

Thank you. Anyone else have discussion? Charlie.

Yeah, I've heard of another hotel having the same problem with parking for their employees. and to the point where they're parking across the street and it's very inconvenient for the employees. So times are changing. The employees are entitled to park on property. So this is one way that some of the hotels are trying to expand their parking garages.

Okay, so we're pretty much good with the change from small town center to resort hotel. Anyone else? Member Johnson?

Chair, I'm trying to find some information on this and I did a search of the TMK and it looks like there was a analysis by the and it says they're doing the parking, but they're also doing 15 extension of the lanai patios. They're doing work on patios as well. Does anybody know about that?

So the patio extension is on another parcel that they own. Are they extending the parking garage as well?

It says construction of a new six-story buildings within the footprints of existing asphalt paved parking lot.

Do we know how many stories this will be?

So basically they're going to build another hotel over the employee parking lot. So they need to put the employees someplace else. And so that parking lot structure is associated with resort hotel use because their employees and maybe even their guests are staying at that parking garage is how it works.

Okay. But, like, remember, says, how would Small Town Center fit it better?

I thought I saw shops at Wailea also got changed designation to resort hotel.

Although after the fire was more local people, but... Okay, so... No, everybody's okay with the resort hotel designation for the parking garage. Wailea Gateway, two TMKs were changed from Planning Department designation of Transit Orient Court. oriented corridor to small town center which i kind of interpret as um less density less busy is that correct mr weltman that was kind of your um part of your discussion that it be less with the change from transit oriented corridor to small town center for yla gateway

Okay members, any questions, comments, concerns, suggestions for, um, where they are gateway parcel. Makes sense. Okay. And then here in sub area three is the one we just referred to small. The shops at Wailea at the planning commission went from small town center to resort hotel because it's primarily tourist serving similar to I guess what we did with Whaler's Village. Any questions, comments, suggestions there? Seeing none. Okay. And then on page seven of attachment 3B, it says Maui Planning Commission voted to recommend adopting the designations for Wailea Gulf from owner Christian Chan's

I don't think that's the fire station. That's the Department of Water Supply water tank. Yeah. The fire station is like more north on the...

It's just on the other side of that boundary line was the MECO substation and the fire station. It was on a different map, but... the Honuaula abuts the Wailea Gulf property. So if you remember when Mr. Ramirez showed us that and there was a blue square on the other side, that's the blue square on the other side.

Was that the fire station? I thought the fire station was on the Pi'ilani Highway at the other end.

Mr. Ramirez, can you show us the other parcel for Honuaula? Oh, sorry, not that one. Let's see. Page 99 of the draft booklet, if you can show us that.

Oh, okay. You got it. So, if this body decides to accept the White Layer Golf property, we would need to decide which map there's the... Is it Kealau O Wailea group had a different map? The owner had a different map with neighborhood center, which had got left off on the booklet version on this map. But if you do look on your booklet on page 79, you can kinda see that orange neighborhood center area on page 79 is there. So I guess this portion of the map with the orange on 79, would be what is added into page 101 if we did accept the owner's proposed map. So that's a question, if it gets accep

Is it parallel to the shoreline, that part?

Okay, so 1,000 feet long by 350 feet wide, changing from agriculture to open space. Do we know the owner of that parcel? Yes, Mr. Wellman, it's ATC McKenna. Okay. And they're okay with this, um. Changing community plan designation from agriculture to open space.

And, um, I guess, Mr. Hopper, do you know that this is an okay designation? What would be the process the county or corporation council uses to know that a landowner is okay with the community plan designation that we're assigning to them, like ag to open space? This won't be seen as a taking?

Okay, so that's your process is requiring correspondence from the landowner that they're okay with Ag to open space?

Okay. And then as we get this bill to Corporation Council to sign off as to form and legality, are these things that you want us to investigate or are you folks going to be going through it parcel by parcel to find the evidence as to why things are down designated? that don't belong to us? Or is this the work that you'd like us to be doing through this process?

Okay, I guess my confusion here is When court counsel goes through what we give them to approve for form and legality, is the assumption that we would have checked the background of a down designation or is that something that you folks are going to check each and every one? What is your role in approving us to form and legality and what is our role here?

Thank you, Chair. I was going to ask very similar questions to you, and then you kind of, you know, asked right when I was kind of raising my hand, so great timing, but... That's kind of what I, right? That was kind of what I was going to ask because granted I know that the, you know, this version of a layer of zoning, because we have so many, we have like four, is just one of the many. But as we're doing the H3, H4 process, you know, we have to get consent. And even though that's kind of a like for like, whether or not, however people want to interpret it, we did intend for like for like, and

Chair, thank you. I don't necessarily need it now, but I just wanted to build on your question because I think you're right. We're going to need to have something to back us up in order to make these changes. Thank you.

Thank you. So something Corp Council said about... Excuse me. Basically, if something is agriculture, if something is zoned as something, then that is the entitlement, right? I mean, if it's ag, it's not necessarily. So to change it from ag to residential, residential to hotel, hotel to something, is that the designation any form of an entitlement? I don't know. I'm just, that's what I'm asking.

Thank you, Chair. I misspoke. What I meant was from any of those things to go to open space. I mean, agriculture, you can farm it, you can do stuff with it. If you made it open space, you could no longer do that.

Sure thing. Terri? Yeah, I just wanted to know which property Well, was member Uhu Hajin talking about when she talked about PK4?

Good point, because if I put the TMK on south of Pu'u Ola'i, 21005108 into the real property tax map site, it shows a 489.432 acre parcel. So I guess the second half of the question is, how do we designate approximately 1,000 foot long by 350 foot wide section of a much larger TMK that has 489 plus acres? Is it CPR or subdivided? Can you spot community plan designate a small portion of a much larger parcel? Is that allowed?

That... the existing community plan designation is single family. Yes. Or the 1,000 foot by 350 foot wide, 1,000 foot long by 350 foot wide.

Okay. And I guess, I mean, would there not have to be like meets and bounds to identify it? Like, um, I'm not, is this the part that is Malka of Ahihi Bay?

Okay. So that section where kind of where his, um, Mr Ramirez, could you put your, yeah, that section where his cursor is, is what we're talking about. Thousand feet by 350.

Okay. So, we would, as it's currently zoned agriculture, I mean, community plan, agriculture and zoning is residential. And we're seeing to change the community plan to open space where we're definitely going to need the background to justify it to the lawyers, it seems if that's what we want to continue to have it be as community plan. Member Cook? Oh, that was a legacy hand up. Remember UU Hodgins?

Sorry, Tara. I'm going to change the conversation real quick, if that's okay with you. Along with your son Nahiku's birthday, it's also my cousin, brother, Conan, come on, UU Lindsay's birthday, and my nephew's birthday. Apparently, it was a very popular day to have children, which also means it's fall break. So I'm going to have to go to my nephew's birthday party in a little bit. When I leave, though, in about half an hour, you will be at Bear Quorum. So I just wanted to give you a heads up. I know my staff reached out to your staff, but I do have to leave to go to a birthday party. Oh, ther

Thank you and I think member Batangan is supposed to join at some time too. Charlie? Thank you.

I'm surprised we don't have a representative from McKenna. You know the thousands of acres we're talking about and nobody's here to explain anything.

That's yeah. Chair? Yes. I mentioned him yesterday. He's on vacation and he's available if you need him, but it depends on when we were talking about their properties.

So yeah, maybe we start a letter to Brad Anderson or McKenna and is the other L-shaped parcel near Pu'u Ola'i, that's not their parcel, right? That's another individual farmer's parcel? Yes, that's a different person's parcel. And that person testified at CPAC about changing it to AG that he was okay with it?

So Mr. Hopper, that's a good enough background explanation for Corp Council that they're okay with that one?

This one was from residential to ag, and it was outside the Maui Island Plan growth boundary.

Okay, and I believe this section that's going to open space is also outside the urban growth boundary, but we'll try and get correspondence going with someone from McKenna or Brad Anderson specifically about this change of the 1000 foot long 350 foot wide parcel if they're aware of it and they're supportive. Okay, so moving along. Mr. Ramirez, if you can bring up the next TMK 21005123, which is a Cahill property, which is changing from residential to agriculture. Okay, so similar situation to the previous parcel where it's outside the urban growth boundary and it's changing from residential to

Yeah, Keaho. Yeah, we did talk to him. Okay, so that one should be okay. Members, any comments, questions, suggestions, or concerns on the Keaho property? Kind of similar to the near Pu'u Ola'i. For the Makena one here, at the bottom of page 7, attachment 3B, it says, It has a list of TMKs, and it says that areas outside the urban growth boundary change designation from residential to agriculture. Mr. Ramirez, could you bring up, I guess, some of those TMKs if possible? And maybe... So this would be the first... That's the first parcel right there, and it's going from residential to ag. Now th

Okay, and it seems I may have misspoken. I saw that the location said McKenna. I looked up the third TMK on the Real Property Tax Map website, and this isn't owned by the McKenna Development. It looks as though it's owned by Harriet Tavares Trust, and there is an owner-occupied property, homeowner on that third parcel, 21006101. So it's currently residential We're going to change it to ag. It's somebody's house that they live in.

If you want to send a letter, you can send it to Tony Takitani. His mother was Harriet Tavares.

Oh, okay. You don't want to just send it to the address listed on the Real Property Tax website?

Can I hear you? Because Tony's an attorney, he probably handles the trust. Okay.

So I guess we'll need to send correspondence to each of the TMKs to let them know of the change in designation. Either Ms. Komkowicz or Mr. Hopper, this wouldn't affect the homeowner, owner-occupant, because their house is already built outside of the urban growth boundary, us changing the community plan designation to agriculture?

Okay, Mr. Weltman, as these changes were made at the CPAC level, was there any outreach to the property owners?

Okay. So I think we're going to have to reach out to all of those property owners and, um, discuss the changes with them. The fourth parcel is owned by the state. But Member Uhu Hadjian, go ahead.

Thank you, Chair. So I'm a little bit confused. If they couldn't be residential, how are they residential now?

Can somebody explain that to me? And then my second question is... I really I have no issue with maybe them going rural. But there are, as Mr. Hopper described, changes when you go to ag. So let's say they have to do some sort of improvement to their property, they have to do something to their property. They're existing non-conforming now, but say they have to fix a bathroom or whatever or a bedroom, then do they have to show the 50% ag if they don't already have it now because they're residential? And then we all just know that we made this change per state law where they can build more home

What year was the Maui Island Plan growth boundaries adopted?

So likely this was designated as residential prior to 2012. And then when the Maui Island Plan urban growth boundaries were made, intentionally these were left out? Is that kind of the history to which member Uu Hadjins was asking?

And then so with the even if it's zoned residential and community plan residential with the new ADU, like you can build two ADUs on a residential property, are they allowed to do that being that they're outside of the Maui Island Plan Urban Growth Boundary with their current zoning and community plan designation?

They're in the SMA, Mr. Oh, he doesn't have the filter for that. Let me try. See on my real property tax. It is entirely in the special management area. So they would not have been able to take advantage of the two ADUs because they're in the SMA outside of the MIP growth boundaries. So that apparently wouldn't be a taking. I guess, but I think, and then with the fourth parcel being a state parcel, do we still need to check in with the state about that or can we just do it to the state?

So I guess the correspondence to the state of Hawaii would be if they want to designate that as state conservation. I guess it's currently is zoned agriculture, I believe. Huh? Single family. Oh, interesting. yeah okay so um i guess we'll we'll try draft a letter to the state about this last parcel let them know it's zoned single family it's in the sma it's outside of the island maui island plan urban growth boundary and our intention to change the design community plan designation to agriculture unless they wanna us to if they want it to become something else like state conservation or someth

Okay, so you want us to reach out to the landowner and ensure that they're okay with the changing community plan designation?

Mr. Wilmer, do you... Do you recall? It sounds, I believe all of those properties at Maulaka are residential. And since the owner was on the CPAC, I'm just wondering, do you remember the conversation or anything like that?

Okay. Members, any further concerns for the Maluaka parcels? It sounds like they straightened that out at the CPAC level of which ones they are okay with going to resort or taking away resort hotels and which ones they want to keep as resort hotels. The last one on page nine of attachment 3B is 7000 McKenna Road. This is looks like Sturgis Trust. It's about 0.8 of an acre. So they supported the planning department's recommendation to designate it as rural residential and match the state conservation. There's an error in state map. State land use confirmed to be all rural. Therefore, the parcel

It's going to be rural residential and the landowner did speak to it. What was it under the Kihei McKenna plan? Rural. Okay, so not really a change, just to the rural residential. So, um, that looks like it's already been checked on. So no problems there. Any members, um, Mr member cook is at a legacy hand up. Okay. All right. So then moving through these policy ones that we already.

Right through. That's the end of the TMK by TMK changes. Ms. Komkowicz, should we go back to page three? Do you have the meeting minutes there about the BIPOA or the Maui Research and Technology Park about the drainage? Oh, Member Johnson, go ahead.

Sorry about that, Chair. Before we move on, and I know Council Member Uhaj's plans leave soon, can we take a quick recess? Because I've got to do a quick bio break, and I think we're out of time.

Sure, sure. Thank you for letting me know. Let's come back at 11 or shortly thereafter, and then hopefully we can backtrack on the things that we're waiting answers for. So 11.05, recess. Thank you. It's 11-12 and will the DRIP committee reconvene from recess? We're at bare quorum, so if anybody does need to leave, just let me know and we can call a recess. Circling back to page three of attachment 3B, we're asking the planning department what in it in the meeting minutes made them think that it should be the transit oriented or all the open space in the Maui Research and Technology Park shoul

Thank you. Um, I guess it's clear that they, um, thought that parks, I mean, it seemed like the conversation was completely around parks and where they were, but the open space is not parks and open space with where the drainage and gulches and things like that. So, um, like you said, it was kind of a conflated conversation where the majority of the things that they were talking about is parks and that parks could be done anywhere in transit-oriented corridor, but I didn't, and that they wanted it to not be reflected, and so they designated the whole thing transit-oriented corridor, but I didn

Oh, that would have been the last one, I think.

So the policy specific to Maui Research and Technology Park was for lands comprising Maui Research Technology Park, the provisions of Maui County Code 19.38. will guide permitted uses if there is any discrepancy between allowable zoning uses and interpreted uses in community plan designations. So it's saying that the zoning would take precedence over the community plan as the policy for Maui Research and Technology Park. Is that correct? Okay, and then you said the next part of the discussion was about the coaches and drainage ways being open space.

Okay. Maybe we need to hear that then. Okay.

Okay, and maybe you can send those pages to the committee. Member Cook, this area below Lipua or the Maui Research and Technology Park, does it flood out often? Yeah, below the... Maui Research and Technology Park. I know it's bounded one side by Waipuilani and it looks as though that with the Maui CPAC, there is a big open space along Waipuilani Gulch because is that outside of their property meets and bounds, Ms. Komkowicz? Okay, I know what you're talking about.

The property to the north of them on their boundary is Waipulani Gulch, and that's a major flood zone.

What about to the south of Waipulani? Does it flood a lot?

To my knowledge, there hasn't been any flooding on the high-tech research, the developed area. They have detention basins above, and they have detention basins in it. but on their property. Maybe did the CPAC, was there any discussion with that? I haven't. Up there, it's really, quote, developed. And the way it was developed, it has proper greeting and detention and all of that. There's flooding to the north of it with the gulch. There's flooding to the south of it. And down on South Kihei Road, not where Lapua hits South Kihei Road, but to the left, there's the wetlands. not far away, and the

So I guess members, this is something we need to consider. It seems as though it could be a policy decision if we're gonna exempt one development from having the drainage ways coaches be designated as open space. Um, I guess for Mr. Hopper, could other projects stay? Either it's a policy or it's not. Why would one development be allowed to be all transit-oriented corridor, whereas other developments, including the county parcels, the drainageways and gulches are... depicted as open space or is it a policy decision that we can make without um seeing like oh maybe the research and technology par

Okay, members, temperature check. How are you feeling on this parcel? We're not gonna make a decision, so I don't know if it's, it's not a, what is that called? It's not a straw poll, but any feedback based on all the information that we've heard so far? Member Rollins-Fernandez followed by Charlie.

Hello, Chair. So for the areas around the gulches that were recommended for open space through this plan process... I'm sorry, Chair, I'm speaking generally in response to Mr. Hopper's response to this parcel. So would something like... we're doing with h3 h4 well not we but what is happening with h3 h4 um where since we have the tmks uh we list the tmks um that would be rezoned from what it is to open space along the cultures and so then it would um be a bill sent to the maui planning commission um like before we adopt this like so that the zoning would change is that like Kind of what you're

It wasn't the community plan designation. It was zoning that I was referring to. But I understand your point about the area around Okay, thanks.

No, no, it was clear. It was clear about the. amending what we have in code about zoning, about flood mitigation and protection around gulches. But also, my question was about consistency with the community plan designation and zoning. So it would be a separate process to rezone what it is if it's not already open space where we are considering specific TNKs in the community plan for open space community plan designation.

and on the ground implementation of of the community plan designation so that's something the department i think which is the point right uh community plans should inform zoning so to make community plans as meaningful as they should be we should uh make zoning consistent with the community plan designations yeah i mean i guess

Yeah. Mahalo, Mr. Hopper. I wasn't talking about all of them. I was just talking about the Gulch's open space because it seemed to be the lowest hanging fruit.

Okay. Chair Lee, followed by Member Sinensi.

Mr. Hopper, I thought I heard you say if there's any development in the Gulch, did you say that? Any kind of development?

Okay, um, I believe it's already in the code prohibition of building anything in a in a gulch. I believe we passed that in the probably around 8990. Right around the time that we passed the PK for golf ordinance, because at one time you could build, develop golf courses in egg on egg land. So we limited that case. I just wanted to some clarification on there's a prohibition already as far as building in gulches. But my concern, Chair, is in one fell swoop over, I don't know how many gulches we're talking about. Is it hundreds of gulches? So I like the idea of, coming up with an ordinance to en

Okay. Member Sinensi, followed by Member Cook.

Hello, Chair. Yeah, I'm supportive of keeping those parcels and vouchers open space. I think we should let those people who want to build near them know that it's dangerous, for one, and that they would have to come to the planning department for zoning change. And I know Mr. Hopper mentioned flood hazard ordinance. Are there any like building standards for people that are in the or near the Gulch? Or does it have any, does the flood hazard ordinance have any building standards?

So if developers are developing along the coach, they would just need flood insurance. They wouldn't have to abide by or adhere to any of those safety standards.

Thank you, staff. Can you make a note on those ordinances for follow-up once we finish the South Maui Community Plan? Member Cook.

Thank you, Chair. I think to kind of zero in on this conversation, there's gulches and there's drainage waste. The gulches are not going to be built in, and they're not going to be covered. Waipulani is a good example, and although it's on the... It's on the flatlands, Mokai to Pitilani Highway. There's a big gulch, there's a big bridge there. The properties that we're discussing possibly purchasing, that's those properties. And they are basically in the gulch. The gulch has been partially built in and around. And that's the problem in South Maui, Kihei, because that's it.

And Mr. Savio is pursuing entitlements for that area.

Actually, he does have a bunch of entitlements, but he's like on the verge. He's not going to be able to do it. So fortunately, and we're not going to let him do it. Anyway, Malka, the gulches, the primary gulches are gulches and the setback from them would be appropriate. The challenge is the drainage ways on a map now, identifying those and designating them as open space is problematic because basically a lot of them, like Lepore Malka is an example. whatever drainage ways they had, they've addressed. And I wanna preserve the drainage ways as needed. I'm not opposed to doing the open space.

maps we're seeing now that aren't clear enough i guess i mean mr hopper did mention the floodway drainage ordinance and that ordinance doesn't allow for development in a drainage way is that what you said mr hopper

And Member Cook, what you were saying is an existing drainage way can be mitigated to put the water into a sediment retention basin or something else. So what you're saying is the open space designation for a drainage way could be addressed in another way by diverting it to a retention basin or addressing the water in some other way is what you're saying?

Yes, and that's basically done through the surveying and when you're plotting out the whole property and designing the flood flow. Like Kihei, with today's standards and the FEMA flood maps, South Maui would not be developed the way it is. There's a whole lot of areas that wouldn't, couldn't be built now. So as the rules and ordinances have changed and Mauka is different, the really key thing with Mauka, we need to make sure that we don't make it worse below. Okay. I mean, that's, I think what the CPAC and people are concerned about. We don't want to make it worse. We want to basically mitigat

I guess for me, a little bit of the concern with that is the county standards for development is, I believe, the 50-year storm, whatever that is. And in the past few years that we've been on the council, it feels like we've had a number of 100-plus-year storms. And so like if the standard is to build to a 50 year storm retention basin and the drainage way is altered to that colony standard, I mean, not that the original drainage way could have addressed a more than 50-year storm, but I guess that's part of the conundrum. Yes, Mr. Cook?

I think it depends on the size of the gulch, the drainage, because there's areas where it's a 100-year storm, like in Wailea and above. Anyway, there's areas up there by Wailea Highlands and stuff where you have to design to 100-year storm. Based on the area, the terrain and whatnot. I think Public Works could help us with this, Bombay.

Mahalo, Chair. So I was just looking at the code. And so is one of the examples, Chapter 19.74, Kihei Makena Project District 5, General Standards of Development. And it has steep slopes and ravines and ravine buffers. Keokea and Waipuilani Gulches have been kept. shall be kept of sufficient width to accommodate off-site and on-site flows and these drainage ways shall be kept in open space where appropriate. At least 80% of all ravine buffers shall remain in permanent open space. Ravines are defined as valleys with sharp sloping walls created by action of intermittent stream waters. Ravine buf

To align with that project district definition, Mr. Hopper?

19.74 Kihei McKenna project district five.

Yeah, I tried looking too. I couldn't find a map and it didn't specifically say like the other project districts. It kind of has like clues on what area.

Okay, sounds like a deeper dive on that before we get to decisions. I know two of our members need to leave in like four minutes. Charlie?

Yeah, I was wondering if Karen Komkowicz could find that project district, because I know that Wailea, for example, was a planned unit development, which you don't do anymore. And so I'm curious, there weren't that many big projects at that time was pretty much Wailea and then the R&T Park and then McKenna. But Wailea was a planned unit development, it wasn't a project district.

Karen, would you be able to find it real fast? I don't think in the next three minutes unless she has it right now.

Okay, so maybe the best course would be to go on lunch right now to return at 1 30, because I know we have 2 members that have lunchtime meetings. Just wanted to update you from our managing director on the Peter Savio parcels. that they're actively trying to acquire it closing is tentatively set by end of january 2027 if the council agrees there are other parcels involved as well as those parcels so um i don't know that if that we're comfortable of changing it to open space until like we close on it so that that would be a pending action but sure so leaving us off with some hopefully good new

All right, so I guess we need to consult with ATC McKenna, but we can kind of see it on the map. I think Mr. Ramirez can bring that up for us, but I guess we need advice from court counsel or planning on If we're changing the community plan designation for this parcel here that he's indicating with his mouse on our screen and they're asking for us to confirm, how do we get the meets and bounds if it's a small sliver of a 489 acre parcel? How will they know and how will we know the meets and bounds of what it is that we're designating as open space? I don't think we can just say the skinny parc

Oh, okay. And then do we know if Klaimi Judd is still a representative of the ATC McKenna? I thought they moved to like France or something.

All right. Um, so then that would be Brad Anderson now that we follow up with. Do we know if Brad Anderson is the new Clay Amy? Judd.

And so CPAC never discussed the meets and bounds of that 1,000 foot long by 350 foot wide.

Yeah, I think we can see it. I guess for the purposes of what we'll need to describe it, in terms of not how it's described here, right? Because that's not legalese. The skinny portion mocha of the, I guess, Mr. Nunakawa, how would we legally define that small portion that's a portion of a larger parcel that's like 439 acres. There's got to be some sort of legal way of defining it for the purpose of this ordinance.

But ag is allowed outside the open growth boundary, so that doesn't explain why we're changing it to open space or the meets and bounds, which I think we're going to need some sort of legal definition of what it is, what the meets and bounds are. and I think it could be okay to change it to open space. At this time, I'd like to welcome Council Member Kawanoe Batonga into the proceedings, Kia Orana and aloha wina ala. Aloha wina ala.

Thank you. We're on page seven of Matrix 3B. We're discussing the third from the bottom, EMK, which is the one that reads south of Puʻuʻolaʻi. It's outside of the Maui Island Plan urban growth boundary. And the CPAC and MPC recommended changing it from agriculture to open space and it's a thousand foot by 350 foot portion of a 489.432 acre parcel. We're not sure how to legally describe the Meats and Bounds, but the suggestion was to turn it to open space. I'm not sure why it needs to be open space because agriculture is allowed outside of the urban growth boundary, but I think it is Mauka of A

Okay, it happens to the best of us. Sometimes it slips us up to these paid professionals. Mr. Nunakawa, what would be the legal criteria for us to change that community plan designation to open space and define what it is area we're changing?

Okay, great. And then I guess when you confirm the appropriate way to describe it, then at that point we'll need to reach out to ATC McKenna that we're downgrading it or down-designating it from ag to open space and get their consent. Is that correct, Mr. Nunakawa?

All right. Member Cook. Thank you, Chair. My question, is it possible to designate a small portion of a large parcel? The urban growth boundary is a point of reference, but it's a large, this is about eight acres of 400 something acres. Is it possible to do open space instead of ag on one?

Thank you. Okay. So, um, Mr Nunakawa is going to follow up for us on if this is a good enough description and then we'll, um, correspond with Mr Anderson about the description and about the change in community plan designation. Um, then the last four parcels on that page we're gonna follow up with the owners um so i think that's the end of our um circle backs for matrix 3b is that do you have anything more stuff that we needed to circle back on uh no chair okay all right Are members okay with moving on from Matrix 3B? Okay. So since we're done with our review of section three, we're gonna cont

Okay. So I guess the recommendation is either to box it in orange or call it boxed in maroon. chair i'm sorry i didn't hear that last thing i was um charged my hearing aids it's it's uh i guess is it would it be considered a non-substantive revision because the last sentence on page 172 refers to designations being boxed in orange but they actually are boxed in maroon And then I guess that could be non-substantive. All right. And then the next question I think is about service business slash single family residential. I will note that it wasn't in Ordinance 2641, which is when the Maui County

Okay. So, um, is, is that a legal issue? If service business or single family residential was not a part of the existing Kihei Makena community plan, but we're inserting it here at the South Maui community plan. Is that okay?

Okay, if you're the lawyer, if you say it's okay, then we're okay with it, I think. And that includes P1 and P2 zoning.

Chair? Yes. So to interpret this, most compatible zoning districts or updated community plan designations, all of the ones in that column correlate with what we're calling it, like neighborhood center, residential, Yeah. B1, B2 for neighborhood center, B1, B2, dot, dot, dot, dot.

Correct. This table does not constitute an exhaustive list of all possible zoning districts for each of the updated community plan designations. Most of the existing community plan business designations can align with more than one of the updated mixed-use community plan designations. So just note that it's not an exhaustive list. I guess the major... change that I see that would be in the hotel column since we're removing A1 and A2 and then add H3 and H4 probably. And then, I guess, Ms. Komkowicz, do we know where Urban Reserve would belong?

Okay. Okay. And then, um, urban reserve could fit into transit or into corridor possibly.

Okay. And Mr. Nunakawa, were you going to make a comment that we're phasing out A1, A2 over a five-year period? So how would that work? Should we say A1, A2 in the resort hotel for the five years ending this and then it will be H3, H4 or how would we reflect that in the hotel column, resort hotel column?

Okay, we'll mark that as a revisit. Member Cook?

Is that, I mean, just, I don't know, but it seems like you take out A1, A2, and put in H3, H4 for just that, because you're no longer going to be able to do transit.

I guess part of the issue is we hope to adopt this plan in 2027, and there's still potentially two or three years, because South Maui was a five-year phase-out, and so this community plan is like an ordinance, that could potentially last for 20 years. So if we know that it's still going to be used for potentially three more years, how do we indicate that here?

Yes, sir, Attorney Cook. Got it. Let's just make sure Attorney Nunakawa agrees with you. Those are my questions about Appendix F. I don't know if anyone from the body has additional questions for Appendix F. Remember, Cook, is that a legacy hand up?

Since it's up. Oh, okay. Go ahead. I don't know how much trouble it would be to have a cheat sheet that so you don't have to look up each one of the zoning categories. But if you had alphabetically or for basically per category, like rural or just like the a cheat sheet that told you the density and dot, dot, dot. And planning may have it and it might be easier for them, but not trying to give anybody a homework assignment, but it seems like for a lay person who's looking at this and trying to identify what that means. So just not a formal request, just a suggestion.

Are you asking for each zoning district to say what community plan designation it could fit into potentially?

No, a booklet that says zoning descriptions. So it would be rural, a density rural.

I thought that this was the booklet that they gave us. That's like a cheat sheet, the community plan. You just want it pocket-sized. Okay, your mic was off. He said he'll scan the PDF and make his own pocket-sized version. Okay, does anyone else have any, looks like we're gonna have to revisit hotel. Maybe we can add urban reserve into transit oriented corridor or any of the business ones. Is that what she said? Ms. Komkowicz, urban reserve could fit into any of the designations that include business? Yes, okay. Mr. Nunakawa?

Okay, so you're saying that we can go ahead and make the change, take out A1 and A2 and add H3 and H4 right now on page 173?

I feel like to be safe, I would do sunset stuff because it is a contentious issue, but Member Johnson.

Oh, thank you, Chair. I have a question. I understand this is almost like a moving target, which H3, H4 might kind of throw a pickle in it, but I was looking at the Lanai Community Plan and they kind of have the same chart, but they're just saying like how many acres is the thing. They'll say like over here, like the hotel district area or the light industry and the heavy industry on this side, but then they'll just tell you how many acres in this. But we seem to have changed our community plans. This is like a totally different kind of information that's giving us, and I don't know the use of

That's why they gave us this updated community plan designation. West Maui was the first community plan area to have these updated community plan designations. So Lanai doesn't have them yet. And that's why the planning department went through every TMK and redesignated them according to the updated community plan designations. And the only... parcels that we had on Matrix 3B is where the CPAC or the Planning Commission changed the designation given to the parcel by the Planning Department. So Lanai is on a whole different.

It's very useful though in a way for me when I look at it as a community member, I'm like, oh, there's 100 acres of heavy industry. Oh, there's 100 acres of light industry. Whereas here, it doesn't have any of that kind of information. It kind of says, here's all these types of zonings that fit in And it's a moving target and then these things get dated. And I just was wondering why we were doing it that way.

Is that in your book in relationship to the zoning or to the community plan? Because as we go through and update the community plan, not always does the zoning and community plan align.

right the chart in the lanai community plan is acreage by proposed growth area and land use designations and this is kind of community plan designations and zoning districts so it was just interest i was interested in just um like the usefulness of the information for me when i look at that when looking at acreage i said okay that makes sense i could see why that's useful here when we have creating new zonings, H3H4, that's a moving target, and in a document like this, I'm just curious, maybe you understand a little bit better, but hearing that the West Maui Community Plan did something like t

I mean, I don't know that we should say that because if somebody has a parcel that is resort hotel and they lived in a unit, that's not illegal, right?

But it doesn't necessarily need to be an apartment. I know some folks on West Maui that have a single family home in hotel zoning and they live there or something. So... What is the difference if hotel doesn't include A1, A2, or resort hotel doesn't include A1, A2, could it be R1, R0, R2, R3? But it's not the most compatible with that community plan designation. Because it's not exhaustive. or we could just leave A1, A2 out because it said this is not an exhaustive list and add H3, H4.

And any comment as to why the acreage, like Member Johnson said, is not on there? The acreage by land use designation? You got away from that because it was tricky for South Maui or something?

I have an update on my parentheses. Oh, okay, sure. H3 and H4 is a zoning category, right? Just nobody's zoned that currently. So that could be added in that, just put it in there. And then the A1, A2 could be addressed in time. And like I said, there is like in McKenna, Houses that are on a hotel zone property that are residences. So it seems like you could have are in there too, or just doesn't have to be that detailed, but that is the case where.

I think 2, we can remove the a 1 and 2, because it does say it's not an exhaustive list and the 3rd column is supposed to be. The ones that. are most compatible. So I'll entertain a motion to amend page 173 in the hotel resort hotel row in the most compatible zoning districts for updated community plan designation column to remove A1, A2 and replace it with H3, H4.

So move. Move by Member Cook. But comment, well, I guess discussion after somebody seconds it.

Yeah. Seconded by Member Batonga and Member Cook, discussion.

Do we need to remove A1, A2? I mean, because just leaving it in there for now, because that's sort of what it is. I don't mind. It's fine with me.

I think by removing it, it doesn't mean that it's not currently in allowed use. It just is not the most compatible use anymore. So because that section says this table does not constitute an exhaustive list of all possible zonings, I feel like removing it would remove confusion further on down the line. Because right now, while this is fresh in our minds, we're going through the H3, H4 process, we all understand it. But say 18 years from now, nobody got around to taking A1, A2 out, and then I can see the confusion occurring. So further discussion, Member Cook? Member Batonga on any discussion?

Resort Hotel. The motion was to remove A1, A2 and add in H3, H4. This is not an exhaustive list of zoning that fit within, but it's the most compatible.

Okay. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, raise your hand and say aye.

I have no other proposed amendments for page 172 or 173. We do have the understanding from Ms. Komkowicz that urban reserve could fit in any place with business. like business commercial, service business, business multifamily, business industrial, but we don't need to add it in. It just says what is the most compatible zoning. So is there any other amendments on page 172 or 173 from the members? Okay. Moving on to Appendix G on page 174. Is Director Mulitao on with us?

Thank you so much. One of the items that we had received in testimony, I don't know how familiar you are with Appendix G, which is significant sites and area in South Maui. It's on page 174 and 175 of the draft South Maui Community Plan. We did receive testimony about adding Kalanihe'au in the Garcia subdivision to important sites and areas in the Kihei Makena plan region. Um, Are you pretty familiar with pages 174 and 175, or not so much?

When you are at the beginning, like on page II, do you have appendix G and what page that corresponds to?

And then I guess, so that was one question about the Kalani Hill. For Ms. Komkowicz, I did also have a question about number two, McGregor's Landing. Is that different than the lighthouse and McGregor's Point? Because I feel like that's more in, is that considered South Maui? It's like on the Pali. And so then West Maui starts at Ukumehame.

Sure thing, no problem. Okay, thank you. I do notice in red at the bottom, it says the above list is not comprehensive. It represents some of the well-known sites that are currently listed in the State Inventory of Historic Places and on file with the State and National Registers of Historic Places. Many more sites have not been surveyed for historic significance. Um, and this section or this appendix, um, looks as though it is a requirement of the Community Plan Ordinance 2.80B.070, which, um, says each community plan shall contain, amongst other things, a list of areas, sites, and structures

Um, so I guess the question is, um, has Department of OAB resources looked at these, um, sites? Are there any really significant sites that you folks feel are missing that should be added? And there was testimony about adding Kalani Hale, which is a part of the Garcia subdivision.

Okay. Um, I guess to me, um, you know, when we were discussing the Honua'ula project, um, the significant archaeological astronomy sites, um, were discussed and, um, you know, initially, I think that, um, modern people didn't recognize the significance of those sites. I'm not sure what they would be referred to, and I'm not sure that they were protected from Wailea 670 being developed, but would that be appropriate to include that they did exist in South Maui? And I'm not sure how they're referred to, but I I recall there was Kumu Mike Lee that could interpret those sites.

Okay, so those maybe if they are within the South Maui Community Plan region included in your update of significant places. I think another one that comes to mind is talking about One of the earlier implementing actions was to study to see how we could restore Pu'uhele. So then it would make sense to include Pu'uhele as a significant site, even though it's no longer... Yeah. But so we're... I guess I'm not sure the guidance on if it's a significant site that has been compromised by human activity. But we were looking into as an action, a study to see if it could be restored. What is the, The t

So maybe we designate it with an asterisk or something if it's been degraded.

Okay. Director Molitao, when you get us your updated list, I mean, I know it might be transmitted today, but is it cataloged by sub-area or not too much?

Thank you. And I can see how that is not here. Like, I do not know the significance of Vavaloa Complex, Alaha Complex, Waiakapuhi Complex. and I'm not sure how the body wants to address it, if we wanna put like footnotes of where people who are reading the South Maui Community Plan could go to to get more information on here, or if we wanna do like a little paragraph blurb for each one. I mean, I kind of I'm familiar with koa in terms of like fishing koa, but are there other types of koa?

Yeah, I think Member Johnson took us to Puʻumahoe on Kahoʻolawe to see that. Okay. I mean, I guess I think for me, my suggestion would be to put an asterisk if a site has been degraded, like the Naval Air Station Puʻunene or Puʻuhele. or hello, and then maybe if there are reference, if we know of reference areas that could give more information about a specific significant site, we could add a footnote for further reading for significant sites. Would that be okay, Ms. Komkowicz?

Okay, yeah, like now we have Google like they didn't have back in... 98, maybe, I don't know. Chair Lee?

Yeah, I was curious, Ms. Komkiewicz, about your comments about the Naval Air Station. If you're referring to NASCA, that would be Naval Air Station Kahului. So anyway, I think but what was in Puʻunene was the old airport. So I just wondered about that, because NASCA is not in Puʻunene, it's going on to the airport. So I was just wondering.

Well, yeah, it was the airport. It was the airport before. Okay, so, you know, if you ask any old timer, they'll tell you that's the reason why you call NASCA, NASCA, Naval Air Station. So just a point of reference. Thank you.

Okay. It says Naval Air Station Putunene was a major World War II U.S. Navy base on Maui located about three miles south of Putunene, which later served as Maui's principal commercial airport before closing in 1955. Yeah. Will you recall that?

No. What I'm saying is that I've never... never flown on any plane at that airport, but I know that there was an airport there. But if you're talking about Nazca, it's on the way to the current airport.

Yeah, it's where all the guys windsurfing like, right?

Yeah, yeah. You don't call that . That's what I'm saying. So there are two similar names. for two different places.

Okay, got it. And then I guess Google isn't as far along as I had thought it was. Like, if I Google Vavaloa Complex, it comes up Vavaloam and brings up other things. I think I tried Wayakapuhi Complex, and it brought up Waikapu. So I don't know if... Director Molitawa, if you know of any kind of reference material that may include like majority of these sites or something, please let us know and then we can like direct people to how to learn more about these significant sites if they'd like to.

Welcome back, member U'uhajins. Any new disclosure for us and how was Fun Factory?

Thank you. Fun Factory is actually really fun. The little bowling section is adorable. So the kids had a lot of fun. It was good to get the kids' wiggles out during, you know, fall break while they're all just at home. But I am back home now with my husband, Koa Hajins, and our son, Ehukai. I've been listening along as I drove up, except maybe for the last few minutes. But, Chair, are we on Appendix E? G. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

We haven't made any amendments on Appendix G. Director Molitao said that we are awaiting a transmittal from them of updated significant sites. We discussed the possibility of putting asterisks on significant sites that have been degraded, like Naval Air Station Puʻunene doesn't really exist anymore. Puʻuhele or Puʻuhelu have been degraded. And Director Molitao did inform us that it would be appropriate to add Kalani Hale as requested by a testifier and Oneuli Hale as requested by Member Sinensi. Member Rollins-Fernandez.

Hello, Chair. So what is the importance of keeping the Naval Air Station Pu'unene on the list?

I think that they just strictly brought forward items that were in the Kihei Makena 1998 plan. And from the internet, it sounds like that. station was closed in 1955. So in 1998, it would have still been closed. So I don't know if Ms. Komkowich has an answer. It might have been a policy decision by the 98 Council. But if you know any other information, Ms. Komkowich.

So I think if you'd like to remove it, it might be a policy decision, but indicating that it no longer exists or has been degraded, I guess, would be like a historical reference that it once was a significant site, although it's not anymore. We also for member Uu Hadjen's benefit, discuss maybe putting a footnote where people can look up more information on these. I thought it would be something that could be Google-able. but not so much. So if there is like a reference material that would help a South Maui community plan reader become more familiar, maybe we can add that on. We kind of discus

Thank you, Chair. We have the Director on the call, and he mentioned the Na'ulu Cloud Bridge, and I wonder, after that visit we just had is so significant. You mentioned a little bit, Director, was it the Koa'ua, am I pronouncing that right? the rain shrines and the things with the Nulu Cloud Bridge are so important. I hope they're not a little asterisk in being, you know, have been then created as well. But is there something you wish to add to that list in regards to the Nulu Cloud Bridge?

I defer to my colleagues and your director as you folks know much more than I do. So I'm willing to support what the body decides and what the director gives us advice on. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. And I think I misspoke that Puu'umahoe was on. my bad but um i think that it's in the the upcountry region so we wouldn't include it um significant sites that aren't in the South Maui Community Plan region, which is part of, I think, CPAC's issue and the other issue that the Community Plan area doesn't follow any kind of traditional Hawaiian land division, which is like the ahupua'a method. part of the problem with developing policies and actions because so much of what happens upcountry affects South Maui, but the community plan is specifically for this lower area. So if Puʻu Mahoe

So, um, It sounds like it's kind of a policy decision with guidance and are members willing to accept the guidance that the significant site should be located geographically in the South Maui Community Plan area because it's a land. I had also heard of the Na Ulu Cloud Le that doesn't just connect it from South Maui or upcountry to Kaho'olawe but in circles. Like, County of Maui Islands, is that a true thing?

Yeah, I think we did hear about... Lihauula on Kaho'olawe. So that's again the importance of the place names showing the connection from one space to another. But I guess it wouldn't be included if it's not in the South Maui Community Plan area. So we'll wait for that transmittal before we make amendments in Appendix G.

Okay, cool. So next up, FCH, the infrastructure report and the appendix H. I think that we did recognize additional CIPs in the implementing actions, and at that time, we said to include them in Appendix H. And then, Ms. Komkowicz, you were going to look at the priority number of where we should put those, is that correct?

Okay. Um, maybe it could be transmitted tonight then and then we can take up those that action. Um, possibly tomorrow.

Does anybody, Appendix H is on page 176, 177, 178, and 179. Did anyone have any other amendments beyond what we already moved? I mean, not moved, but duplicated in Appendix H as we were going through the implementing actions. We moved some of the CIP projects over here. I guess initially we only saw DPW, but there's also planning, DOT, NPO. Some of the ones here in the infrastructure report aren't noticed as CIP, like some of them, our plans.

Oh, okay. So it's not necessarily all capital improvement projects, but plans or projects or capital improvement projects that have to deal with transportation. Yes. Okay. So I think I would eventually add the route study. Would that be appropriate, Ms. Komkwicz?

Yeah, that was what I meant for the route study. The route study would identify, the location of the Mauka Collector Road route study with MPO to identify location of the Mauka Collector Road as one.

Okay, prioritize the identification, design and implementation of new motorway. Okay, so you're saying maybe we should just amend the language here to say, do a route study to identify a new multimodal transportation corridor through South Maui to Central Maui Mauka of Pi'ilani Highway, connecting Maui Veterans Highway in a manner that minimizes harm to the I-9. Do we have to mention the part about collector because how do we differentiate this from the Kihei Malka Bypass and the other transportation study that MPO previously did.

I don't feel the need to separate the multimodal part but to identify the collector portion of it because I don't want this route study that we're talking about or Mauka of Pi'ilani to be confused with the Mauka Bypass. Because remember, we were discussing the difference between a Mauka Bypass or a Mauka Collector Road, and the Mauka Bypass seemed like pretty pie in the sky, whereas the Mauka Collector Road seemed more doable. So... I mean, I'm okay with multimodal transportation being a part of it, but I just want to ensure that it's clear that we're talking about a collector road and not a b

I don't even think that was the NPO. If I remember correctly, that was the mid-range plan, which is done by the state.

Oh, okay. Well, I guess good that we didn't waste time and money then on it. So, revisit 1.15, amend the language to do the study. and then design and then implementation, clarify that we're talking about a Malka Collector Road. Is that sound okay, Ms. Komkowicz? I would need to come up with the verbiage on that for like splitting that one action number into like three, I guess.

It's 1.15 here. What is the corresponding number in the other section?

Okay. Okay, so we'll probably renumber it to something and then split it into a part A and part B maybe.

And then the county lead agency would be MPO. I had another question to like, In the low, medium and high priority, I think we had said at one time, if everything is a high priority, what is the point of doing low, medium, high? And I don't know that there's too many that are low priority, but. Does it make sense that one third would be low priority, one third would be medium priority, and one third would be high priority for it to mean something? It's kind of like, you know, I guess bell curve grading, but to the point of if everything is truly a high priority, then are we really prioritizing

Yeah, I do see a ranking system, but there seems to be for Appendix H just one low priority. And out of 13, so, I mean, I could envision maybe five high, the top five being considered high, the next four being considered mid, and the next four being considered low.

Yeah. So in the one-third, one-third, one-third, we're spreading them out over all the goals, one through five. Okay. I guess I can try to come up with a proposal after we do our marathon session. Because, I mean, if everybody is in agreement that if they're all high, then we're not really ranking them. and it'll be just a proposal which, you know, we can amend, Charlie. When is this marathon session?

Thursday at 2.30. Okay. Just checking. I thought today was, but okay.

Thursday at 2.30 ends the marathon session, and then we go back to weekly. But I just heard from member Uhu Hodgins, I think, about prioritizing one-third, one-third, one-third. Does everyone else feel similar, that we should prioritize kind of equally, or do we want to just let everything be high priority or majority of things be high priority? Because if that's the way we're going, then I won't waste my time on that. Member Sinensi is okay with everything high?

Chair Lee. I do like the 1 3rd, 1 3rd, 1 3rd because it's more realistic.

I think the 1 3rd, 1 3rd is practical and realistic, but I think that these were prioritized by a community. And so maybe we could have our... CPAC Chair, weigh in.

It's also difficult, too, because sometimes you'll have a low priority item, but it's easy to accomplish. It's a tendency to want to go after the low-hanging fruit, and then somebody's all like, well, why'd you do that one? It's a low priority, and it's like, it was easy or something, you know? Um, okay. Member Batonga.

Thank you, Chair. So for Mr. Holtman, when the CPAC considered the priorities, was there any sort of... Did you guys consider it as if this is important to me, therefore it's high? Or did you guys consider it in terms of like, amongst these priorities, these are the ones that we think should be focused on first?

Or order of preference amongst the given list.

And I think we do have some high priorities with short timing and some high priorities with long timing. I'll go to Member Rollins-Fernandez and then Charlie. And for your information, we've counted about only four items being low priority.

Mahalo, Chair. Okay, so as you just stated, some of them have different timeframes. Some of them have different department leads. And some of them, and they're, you know, different types. So like program, project, CIP. Those three. Am I missing one? I feel like I'm missing one. Anyway, planning.

Yeah, so I hear what you're saying about if they're all high priority, then really none of them are high priority because they're all the same, equal. But if we're going to try to figure out which ones should be should receive like the high um that perhaps uh it you know kind of be given a little more uh like of that that type of thought in separating it by type and by department um you know because if it's like just a couple i think there's a lot for like MIMA and public works or, you know, like as far as like evacuation and roadways and drainage. So like maybe like within like public works o

Yeah, I think that's a good idea to, regardless of if it's a project, a CIP or a plan, I think correlating it to the department, because most departments just have one director. And so if we pull out all the implementing actions for public works, we can't have all of them be high because Jordan is already dealing with all the things he's dealing with or all the things for MIMA, regardless if it's a project, a CIP or whatever, we can try and prioritize them in that way. For me, I think I would prioritize human safety as if it's a planned project or program that helps with human safety, that wou

And some of them are ongoing, right? And so, like, once the program or, you know, something is started, then it just keeps going. Boeing, um, Mr.

So we would look at our matrix on that for the initial number, action item number to help with the initial action item and then ranking.

Charlie. Yeah. Thank you. Um, I'm really not tied to the one-third, one-third because all of this is pretty arbitrary. What I'm concerned about is, Ms. Konkiewicz, did you add up all the anticipated costs of all of these projects? I would imagine it would be in the billions of dollars.

See, we don't have just one community plan to worry about. We have all the community plans to worry about. And so to say to the Department of Public Works, okay, we look at this as a priority, but they also have priorities in West Maui and every other region. My concern is that people are going to expect us to deliver on a number of these projects when we don't even have the money to do it. Not for every planned area, not for every region. So that's my concern. It's nice to prioritize, but my main concern is how do we get the money in the billions of dollars? And without misleading people to t

Okay. So you do have the totals or the subtotals?

Riley's pretty good at that. Pardon me? Seems like Riley could do that for us.

Yeah, I know. Maybe I'll ask him, how's that? Okay. Okay, I'll volunteer, my grandson.

Sure, be happy to. And then Jared can check it.

Thank you. Thank you, Member Rollins-Fernandez.

Okay, so I wanted to use Molokai Community Plan priority as an example. Okay, so one of the highest priorities is the relocation of the Pukau Fire Station. And it's taken over 10 years after, oh, I guess, eight years, 20s, yeah, 2026, 2018. Well, it's always been a priority. It was a priority in the 2001 plan too. But for the 2018 plan, We're finally moving forward and in year one, year two, they may have like allocated, you know, like 50 to 100,000 for a site selection survey. And then in year two, there was no money spent because there wasn't support for the sites that were selected. Year th

So, For the West Maui Community Plan, we did include way more things than what we thought realistically could happen. And then when Lahaina burnt down, a lot of the things became more viable. Like another recreation complex center, when we ended up purchasing a bunch of those lands from Peter Martin, now they're... with CDBGDR, I think, are considering those projects that I personally thought would never materialize. So I think, adding more but maybe also adding a disclaimer that saying you know subject to the availability of funds subject to the um you know the the things that we're not privy

Yeah. Because sometimes we only have a short window. We had, I don't know how many, a month or something to make that county version long-term recovery plan. Just having documented what some of the priorities are, even if at this time it seems like they're not realistic, if the situation arises, we're then ready, you know, like, say something were to happen in 2030, like, hopefully not a tsunami or something like that, but... then we'll be like, oh, in 2027, this is all their priorities. And when we rebuild, we want to be cognizant of these types of things. So that would be my suggestion is ma

Yeah, I think that's a good idea. It's important for the public to know that once we pass the plan, The administration is the entity that implements. So, you know, I think some reference to that is important.

Thank you. Yeah. And future councils will be responsible for funding them. So I'm sorry to disclaimer. Member Rollins-Fernandez, it has been uploaded to Granicus number 57, the scores for the priority based on CPAC polling. So we can kind of get... We'll have to revisit for action number 1.16 A and B. And then I think we did add some more CIP projects into here. When we added the CIP or other projects into Appendix H, do we have a draft version of that so that when we I guess prioritize or make any changes that were incorporating those or I'm not sure Ms. Komkowicz, some of the action items th

Okay, so we just need to make sure what we added to Appendix H meets the capital improvement schedule and financial element. I guess if it's supposed to meet the capital improvement, schedule then um projects plans and programs are they supposed to be in here or is it only supposed to be cips because it says in appendix h the actions related to capital improvement have been isolated and prioritized but we have some where the type is not CIP, it's project or plan or program. So is that correct? And it doesn't necessarily say, I mean, it has goal 2.1, which is a complete, balanced, efficient, an

Because what's in here now doesn't indicate that it should only relate to transportation networks.

Oh, that's a good idea. Let's come back at 3.35 if that's okay with the members. Recess to 3.35. It's 3.43, will the committee return to order? We were going to get a breakdown on the Appendix H from Ms. Komkowicz.

Okay, and so it doesn't need to necessarily be the transportation network. It could be any infrastructure item. So the items that we previously referred to Appendix H would be okay. Yes, correct. Okay. And then I guess we had discussed numbering the priority based on the department that was carrying it out. But if it's numbered overall, the department can just go, like for the infrastructure report part, the department can just go in the order that the items are in their department and we're using numbers instead of high, medium, low. In the implementing actions, I or somebody could make a pro

So if anyone wants to do that work or come up with a proposal, I'll see how easy or hard it is and come up with a proposal and see if the body likes it or not. Um, Ms. Komkowicz did say that she had further information on the McKenna open space parcel. One of her colleagues watched the video. So if you... This is in relationship to page... Matrix 3B or attachment 3B. Page seven, third from the bottom. Go ahead, Ms. Komkowicz.

And the meet and bounds were just as written?

Okay, and Mr. Nunokawa, you'll get back to us on the formal legal, how we should represent it?

The north end of that portion of the property appeared to line up with a TMK line, just mauka of it. So we could say the portion of the property in line with this TMK mauka and everything south, maybe, and describe it as a 1,000 foot by 350 foot approximate area, maybe.

And you'll just provide for us the exact verbiage?

Okay, thank you. All right, good to get that out of the way. So it's hard to work on Appendix H because I know we added some things in there. So I'll work with staff to look at the revised Appendix H with the things that we added in there and see if we can come up with the number, if I can come up with a proposal for the number ranking based on what we just received from planning, which has been uploaded to Granicus and is number 57. So it's when the CPAC members were polled, I think only 10 of them were there, but they kind of created a ranking system. So we'll try to cross-reference that. Um

Chair, if we could have comments from the CPAC chair.

Okay. Mr. Weltman, any comments on page 146 through 152?

The future is now. I like it. Ms. Komkowicz, do you have public engagement events through the planning commissions upon their receipt? It seems as though we should also add into the planning with the community, somewhere in there that the Department of OEB Resources came into being kind of in the middle of the process and that it was a little bit of a catch-up for them. I'm not sure where exactly. I mean, maybe on the research portion, it might be good to... speak to it. Any thoughts, Ms. Komkowicz?

Okay. Then we can mention about how we kicked it off with a site visit and an in-person meeting in the district and then... I guess that part can ultimately be updated right before finish because we won't know how many meeting days and things, but we're keeping track. And so in the Maui Planning Commission part, we'll add in, we'll have a sentence added in about OEB resources coming online. Um, And then, uh.

Okay, we can do that. There is a little discrepancy because we had sent it back. They transmitted it to us from the Planning Commission and we sent it back to get a little bit more work done. But we can mention about that as well. On page 148, I noticed that Under community engagement, you mentioned about the COVID-19 pandemic preventing in-person outreach options and what the department did instead. I was wondering about the Maui Planning Commission's review and recommendation if you wanted to mention in there about the August 8th wildfire, did that direct, did that affect the Planning Commis

So I see you mentioning the COVID-19 on community engagement and planning with the community, but not the fire. Is there a reason? Because I mean, I think it is important to the context because planning was heavily involved in the fire response as well. And then you guys underwent some changes with leadership and things like that. I think that kind of tells the story, not why we got it, like how we got it, but I mean, it gives some sort of explanation as to how we got here.

In the moment, you know, it's all you can think about. Like, I can't go in a mosh pit right now or whatever, you know. So, um, We'll wait for updated verbiage from you to mention about how the fire affected CPAC's review or something. Okay, great. Members, just raise your hand if you see anything else that you think should be added but is not. And then, so on page 151, talks about all the other related studies and plans that were used. Significant sites. We'll have to update this that we got some information from Department of OEB Resources as well. Director Molitao?

Oh, okay. For the part about significant sites, I don't know if we want to try and see if someone from OEB Resources could, because it says, see Maui County Resources Management Plan 1984, the newest version of such a plan. but we got a lot of the information from Department of, or we will get a lot of the information. So maybe we can request that they update page 151, significant sites portion with how they came up with those significant sites. Can, okay. How to use the plan? Mr. Weltman.

Year published. Ms. Komkowicz, is that something that you could provide to us?

Okay. Before we pass the plan. Okay. And then, um, all right. So those are some things we want. We want to see the year published from the planning department, uh, update of the significant sites portion by OEV resources. An update of page 150 about Department of resources coming on. And that's by the planning department and then. update on page 148 by the planning department adding in about how August 8th, 2023 caused like a month pause or whatever. And a little bit shifted the focus because I saw that one about like sounding the sirens for any kind of thing. So it did affect some of the poli

What if we just had a header and put appendices supplemental information?

I'll entertain a motion to amend on page 152 by adding a similar font and color header that says appendices and then put appendices includes supplemental information to the South Maui Community Plan. So moved. Moved by Member Johnson, seconded by Member Cook. All in favor, raise your hand and say aye.

Sorry, you guys are okay with that? Okay. The next part of the appendices is Appendix B, references. I'm just trusting here. And It looks like the years are here, so maybe we can pull that from here. The draft Kihei Drainage Master Plan ecological alternatives analysis is year 2020. So would that be the Kihei Drainage Master Plan pre-final report? Would that relate to that one, Ms. Konkiewicz, on page 153? The fifth one down, is that the same one as the Kihei Drainage Master Plan or it's different?

Okay, do we know which one is being referred to on page 151 or should we put 2016 and 2020?

Okay. So, um, I'll entertain an amendment on page one 51 to add, um, to strike what is written under Kihei Drainage Master Plan Pre-Final Report to say, Draft Kihei Drainage Master Plan Ecological Alternatives Analysis for Waipu'i Lani and Kulaniha Koi Districts 2020 and Draft Kihei Drainage Master Plan Waiakoa Gulch to Kilohana Drive . Moved by Member Cook, seconded by Member Johnson. All those in favor, raise your hand and say aye.

Okay. I'm not sure if we should also check in with OEV resources. Ms. Komkowicz, did OEV resource also provide their references to you folks? It's already incorporated.

Like for Appendix B, any source that they consulted in providing the information?

Oh, okay. To be added for references. Okay. Maybe also email drip.committee at maui-county.us. So those are to be included as references as well.

Okay. Sounds good. We can make that amendment when we get the links. I don't have really any other additions to the references. And then Ms. Komkowicz will let us know that to make sure that Department OEB got us all their ones. Appendix C is acronyms and abbreviations. I think we did add to this some of the abbreviations that we came across that weren't in there already. And we finalized DOM is Department of Management. D, Okina, O, Kahako, R is Department of OEB Resources. M dot. Oh, yeah, we wanted to add M dot versus H dot.

Okay, great, great. I can't think of any more that we would need. But if anyone thinks of one, we can add it in. Okay, moving on to... Page 159, Appendix D, Definitions. One note I had here. Drainage weight. Oh, remember Rollins Fernandez?

Hello, Chair. Sorry, for Appendix B. Okay. All the references, like the documents or that are documents or that can be like a screenshot of the website, if that's what the reference is, is there a location that all of the documents can be found? I was looking on the We Are South Maui page and I don't see it.

Okay. And the reason I ask is, you know, like some of them are articles or... press releases or that kind of documents, guidelines. And if at some point in the future the link doesn't work or it can't be found via search engine, if it's all in one location on the website, then at least it would be easier for someone trying to understand where, you know, that information came from the citation. It'll be on our location.

Is the intention to keep the We Are Maui site operating in operation indefinitely?

would it be something that the planning department could do to upload the PDFs to the South Maui We Are Maui site? Is it a hard lift?

under like a reference or resource section of the website.

Or add it onto the existing South Maui site.

Okay. So we understand that it might take a while, but the planning department could work on it. I did also see in the references section the years for the Southwest Maui Watershed Management Plan and Kihei Subarea Transportation Plan. So we can amend on page 151 to add 2019 in parentheses after Southwest Maui Watershed Management Plan and 2020 for the Kihei sub-area transportation plan. Entertaining a motion made by member Uu Hodgins and seconded by member Rollins-Fernandez. All those in favor, raise your hand and say aye.

Okay. We were on page 159. Mr. Hopper advised us, I think, Title 12 of the Maui County Code defines drainage ways and that definition in the code is not exactly the definition on page 159. So wondering if, for Corp Council, if we should have the code definition, which is a little bit more specific than what the plan definition is. which the plan definition just says a route or course along which water moves or may move to drain a region. And then I think in Title 12, Mr. Hopper read something much more involved. And so I'm wondering if you want us to have the code definition of drainage ways o

Okay. Is there a smart person out there? Ms. Nakata? Is that, because you understand words so well in the law, is that a control F that you could potentially do where the code definition of drainage ways would be the correct usage? we can do a search for the term in the draft plan councilmember thank you thank you um so we'll come back to that one maybe not make the change right at this moment because they're gonna check if it fits um the other thing that i have in my notes to address is um there is a lot of talk about native plants but we don't have a definition about native plants um so i do

Yeah. And then, you know, I think there's several resources that were mentioned, like the Maui County Planning Plan, which I think is amongst... listed amongst the resources, maybe Maui County Planting Plan, or maybe not. There's a plant inventory worksheet here. But...

Chair, on page 153, fourth one from the bottom has the Maui Planting Plan, third edition, 2026.

Okay. So I don't know if... Does the Maui County Planting Plan only list native plants, or does it make a distinction on what is native plants? You also mentioned at one point when we were discussing Policy 2.4.8, go native plants. Okay.

Okay. Does anyone know the definition of native plants?

So I'll make a note to revisit drainage way, find a definition for native plants. The reference to go native plants, should we put that in the resources section? Or sorry, the Appendix B references?

Remember Johnson, uh, 2.8 Oh B dot two zero two zero says native species means a species that occurs naturally in an area and it's not introduced. Would that be close? It's a species. I don't know if that's that fits, but it is in the code.

And we do like to be consistent. Maybe we just add plant species.

Well, all right. That's fine. I don't want to. But native species, you could just say native plants means plants that occur naturally in an area and it's not introduced. Because if we list them, there's going to be like, oh, well, add this one. You forgot this one. You've got that one. So it's just as long as it's not introduced, I think. But I don't know if we're getting in the weeds. Thank you. Thank you very much.

And then with your Go Native plants, was that a website or a book? Because I did find one. Authors Hillary Parkinson and Paul Arinaga wrote Go Native, Your Guide to Growing Native Hawaiian and Canoe Plants. Is that the one?

I think it's .org. GoNative.org. Yes. Oh, no. You can buy this domain for $3,975. I don't think that's the one. Shouldn't I just be able to type in GoNative.org and it would come up? It says GoNative.org is for sale. GoNativePlant.org. Oh, yes, that's it. Okay. This is where native plant enthusiasts meet and connect. Ooh, this sounds fun. Okay. So... We'll need to come up with a definition and then maybe we can put gonative.org or gonativeplants.org as addendum to the definition. Member Cook, is that a legacy hand up? New hand.

That's my hand. Whenever it's appropriate. the gray infrastructure on 159 and green infrastructure on 160. I think it could be clarified. Gray infrastructure, is that now a good time? We're done? I'll talk about plants? Sure. Gray infrastructure, traditional stormwater infrastructure in the built environment, such as gutters, drains, pipes, and retention basins. And then green infrastructure, drainage systems that slow down or control stormwater runoff to be used for non-potable use irrigation, provide additional environmental benefits, e.g. groundwater recharge, evaporation, reduced pollution

Yeah, I think the CPAC preference was for green infrastructure, but adding in language like to the extent practicable or as feasible, indicates what you're seeing that it may not always be possible, even though the community's preference is for green infrastructure. When we added the verbiage like to the extent practical or the extent feasible shows that maybe not all of the drainage can be green, even though that's the community's preference and priority. And then in those cases where it's not practicable or feasible, the other alternative is the gray infrastructure. So I do believe that the

I guess the trigger for me is gray infrastructure is a retention basin, which is basically a hole in the ground for the water to percolate, which is the same thing as a rain garden, but on a different scale. So they're kind of like hooli. Nuff said, I think you're correct as practicable handles of things.

And so the retention one is the one that holds it, yeah? Is the detention one that lets it out somewhere in the ocean?

No, not in the ocean necessarily. Oh, somewhere else. Detention basin captures the water like in Kihei on Lepoa behind the swimming pool. There's a detention basin. There's no outlet. Oh. It basically, if the water goes in there and it settles and it percolates down,

Because for us, by Leali'i, the biggest basin will let out to the ocean below. So when the other basins that were built for the temp housing overflowed during the Konolo storm, I think they hired Sakama Pumping to pump it out of those holding because they were starting to overflow and put it in the detention basin so that it could go out to the ocean because we had no other place to put it. all that water. It was gonna overflow and go into the Hawaiian homes in Wahikuli.

It's not that one type doesn't have an outlet. One type doesn't have one. Oh, it's not? I think it's basically the concept is it's not lined. It doesn't hold water.

I get confused. For storm drainage, so it's for... If you see it and it's all grass, Okay, I think that's a retention basin, but I get confused because the intent is going to fill up with water, but it's going to drain. It's like it isn't to hold water. It's not a point of wire. It's not storage. It's simply to enable capture the water and enable it to percolate in because you can't divert it to the ocean.

I'll look, I'll get my definitions clear.

Oh, I see what you're saying. There's inconsistency in... like part classification matrix repeats the part classification matrix, you mean?

So, I don't know, PQRST. So project district zoning should be before Puʻu Honua. These are, I guess, kind of non-substantive revisions that can occur during cleanup, OCS cleanup to, if it's not, There we can we can add it. Mr Nunakawa.

Well, drainage way is already in the code. So there's that. In looking at the definitions, I did see some more acronyms that were left out. Some of them are LEED, L-E-E-D, or BMP, Best Management Practice, or Multimodal Level of Service, MMLOS, but we can come back to those. Member Rollins-Fernandez?

Hello, Chair. Okay, so are we going to add detention and retention to the definitions? Is that why we're talking about it?

I think we were talking about it because we weren't sure the difference.

Retention is to retain water and detention is to hold it temporarily so it's dry in between storms. but I wasn't sure if we're gonna have that. I had raised my hand when we were talking about plants.

All right. So, native and endemic. Native is when flora fauna makes its way to a regional location like the Pacific without the help of humans and can be found throughout the region. like other Pacific islands. Endemic is when a flora or fauna is only located in one area, so like the different birds, for example, that evolved on each of our islands. We have some endemic birds, for example, that can only be found on Molokai. And so that's to a very specific region. And then the canoe crops,

are the crops that came with the first pollinations okay great um i think throughout the document we emphasize the prioritization of native plants but um i i wouldn't be opposed to say native or endemic to that region um as the priority and then maybe canoe plants and then everything else with minus invasive species, obviously. So that could be a scrub action we take where we go through and everywhere we see the prioritization of native plants, we could say native plants or endemic plants that are ma'a to that area. Or... I don't know if you can say ma'a, but...

Okay, so I guess in our definition of native plants, we should say in this South Maui Community Plan document, native plants implies native or endemic. And then say native plants are plants that, what you just said, and endemic are what you just said. Chair.

native species and endemic species and then put native plants in this document refers to either native or endemic species. Can we say plant species? Because we're not trying to refer to animals. Mr. Johnson.

Well, Chair, I love the discussion, but I do have to get going soon. When we finish this point on the plants, can we finish, or are we gonna keep going? I'm just curious what the plan is.

Oh, yeah, we can finish at the end of the plants.

I guess... Chair? Yes, Member Rollins-Fernandez.

In some definitions, it says endemic species are native, but not all native species are endemic. So native species would be inclusive of endemic.

Oh, okay. Member Rollins-Fernandez, do you want to come back tomorrow with a draft proposal for native plants or definition? And then we can say... And then we can say like gonativeplants.org is the place where you can look it up. So I assigned homework for a bunch of people today.

Okay, so that brings us to the end of our native plant definition discussion. Members, if there are no objections, I will defer this item with the understanding that our main motion as amended will carry over to the next meeting. No objections. Okay, thank you. This concludes today's Disaster Recovery International Affairs and Planning Committee meeting. Thank you very much, everyone. We will be convening a new meeting tomorrow, taking oral testimony once again. The time is now 4.42, and this meeting is adjourned.