City Commission - workshop

Okay it is 2 30 and we have a study session scheduled dealing with water line replacements and water rate discussion so I will turn it over to the city manager to get us started.

A couple questions. Yep. Debbie, if I could. Sure. When we had such a large fund balance back in 22, Yep. 23 million and change? Yes. Was there some bonds that were put out or something to get the balance up that high or had that just accumulated?

Okay so it was really an intentional increase in those rates all right and we had you mentioned the 40 million and the 40 million do we have any other debt currently out there we do and we'll look at that here in about three slides okay last question then the intra fund transfers just I mean it shows an expense of almost nine million where does that go

And I'm kind of a newbie. Sure. Who do we pay a franchise fee to?

And I don't know. The things that you told me, just $8.7 million.

It seems like the vehicles would come out of that particular bucket. But thank you.

I'm... I've... I said before, I'm one of those with privilege. I water my lawn. I guess I'd be interested in knowing, does any other community have a tiered water rate structure like we have?

I know Commissioner Davis and I talked about this a while back. I forget if it was during the open meeting or just in private conversation, but we try to be very frugal with our water. And I know my water bill last month was right at $400,000. And that's some of the rates proposed, but I know it's a seasonal type thing. And I think that that time period was the highest water bill of the summer. As I take a look down the road, that 400 could jump up to potentially about 700 or leading on it. And I mean, it's already an additional tax, I think, this time of year.

And one more follow-up. Is there a base usage in the first quarter? I mean, is there a basement to it? I have some privilege. A minimum winter quarter average? I've had winters in years gone by where I haven't been here.

Well, does that apply? I guess what I'm getting at is... In years gone by, I've had winters where I've used no water. So is my base zero?

So total borrow was about 191 million? Yes.

Currently, I see some of them are retired.

the mandate, are we to pay for that? Does, how does that, there's, is there a state program, a federal program that pays for that?

Over a like they say a 20-year period but that's also a discussion whether that's doable for some community so a lot of discussion about lead service line replacement yet and who's going to burn the cost yes so we do have I'm sorry go ahead well follow up to your question were you referring to potential federal government assistance for the public and private either or either yeah so the discussion was The federal government, is it looking at helping with the private side as well?

And have we identified the public side, the lead pipes? Have we identified that? Are we pretty confident on what we have accomplished?

Couple follow-ups, if I could. When was lead piping outlawed?

And then the solder was like 63 or something, wasn't it?

And if I had a home built before 1950, how would I as a homeowner self-inspect that?

But they're... I don't know, lead is magnetic and- Yes.

I'm just trying to increase my knowledge, and thank you.

bringing in a professional engineering firm or consultant for that because none of us are water experts and- Yes. Above our pay level anyway, our pay grade.

And Black and Veatch is who did the Southwater plant also, correct?

Will they come in and present to us then and explain to us exactly what needs upgraded and why? And then will they also discuss, I know there's been concerns about the chemicals that are in our water. They'll discuss how those additives are there and why they're there and so on and so forth?

Help me here. The Southwater Treatment Plant and the downtown, do they both... Does the south one take out of the river too, or is it all well water versus this one being both?

We'd be on the verge of losing our payments on the $18 million of debt, the debt that expires in 31. But we'd be, as it stands right now, looking at adding approximately 58 million.

Couple couple questions. Back in 2014. The city commissioners. Agreed or decided that 8 miles per year. Needed to be done. on the water lines. I know looking at it here, the 2013, the 15, we had nine, we had almost nine, and then we had, it dropped off, probably waiting for them to get done. But anyway, the miles of the projects have kept going down, the cost has kept going up. A couple of things I'm looking at on this, to me, It seems like when we're doing more miles, we have more bidders as a rule. And it seems like when we do more miles, and we don't know this anymore, but I would have to t

Just a follow up, Mayor, if I could, and it's probably more of a comment. But again, the commission back in 2014 talked about that eight miles per year. The need hasn't gone down, if anything, I'm not going to say dropping the ball. I'll say different priorities over the last five years. Our miles per year really has kind of fallen off the falling way off the pace of where we need to be.

future years and I'm gonna look to Commissioner Davis here but I know a lot of the thing you know we were budgeting two to four million a year but a lot of that because we were doing cash and we and again there's that balancing act everybody wants to replace more line but nobody wants in you know their their mill their taxes to go up or their or their fees to go up well that doesn't work so we've always tried to balance that so now we're at a point where we're gonna have to look at you know, raising, you know, fees to be able to pay for additional miles. And I think we have to be very, you kno

One final point I want to make on behalf of the community. We have some real costs coming up. With the new water plant, I've heard fire station number five mentioned. I've heard in conversations gone by the possibility of a new police station. We're talking about the new maintenance facility. All projects that run extreme dollars. Now somewhere along the way, I think priorities have shifted a little bit. During that time period where we talk about the money not going as far, we did find $15 million, give or take, for the river renewal to go into that bucket. I believe about $9 million in plann

Again, we talk about whether we get more bids or less bids. I wonder, you know, if you start going with larger projects, does that limit the number of companies that can bid because of the bonding? I don't know how that works.

That brings up one final thought, and maybe I said that a couple minutes ago as far as a final thought. But with the mayor's comment, I don't have any agenda against deal. But there's a rumor out there that they're subcontracting the water line work. And I know contractors use subcontractors all the time.

I know the people on Dover are eager to see it come to fruition, obviously.

Does that help bring out a more honest conversation? I'm kind of joking, having it in the church.

I think we'll get to a slide that gives a little balance on that maybe because when engineering is done outside outside engineering cost is what between 10 and 25 percent of a project usually something like that.

Backing up just a little bit. The .1 sales tax.

Does that mean if the rate right now hypothetically is we have a 9% sales tax, it would become 9.1? Yes. Okay.

Without the spatial districts, our total sales tax is what, 9.75 now in Salina? No. Or what is – or where are we at?

2.75 and six and a half nine point two five That wasn't on my radar to answer I just I couldn't remember Because we just recently, you know, the voters did the half, you know the for the camp or sent for the for the jail That was the last one That kicked us up.

Well just on that I guess I'd like it as an option. We have a high percentage of seniors in our community, and I think as a rule, they spend less money, because they have less money coming in, so it would impact them less, perhaps. Just throwing that out there.

Plans yeah and I mean there's you know we have to weigh all the things one of the things that when I was looking at this and thinking about it is the with the water rates the one thing I kind of liked water rate versus you know doing a mill levy or property taxes we have companies like the hospital and and schools and churches that that use water and they don't pay a property tax so that's one way to capture money out of those entities that aren't paying a property tax so so sales tax is the other one I've we have a large draw factor I've always been and I know Commissioner Davis I disagree on

The part that he was referencing that I don't agree is that those of us who live here have to pay that same tax. And if you walk into a store and 10% of your money is gone before you even pick your item off the shelf, I think there's something psychological about breaking that 10% barrier. But I always thought water would be the perfect solution. use of property tax because it's, I mean, between fire, police, sewage, water, I mean, there are not many basic things that governments need to provide or take care of. But we're trying to get something for nothing. And these are 100-year-old pipes. I

We better get to the options. We only have about 15 minutes left.

Hire it out. And pay 25% of your cost. Which would reduce the amount we could do.

Quick question. Off the top of your head, what's the financing cost for $120 million?

And again, I know this is all over the board, but what would an average water bill be for a normal household?

Without the summer rates of watering or whatever?

Yeah, yeah. So a 50% increase of what is it per month for...

Quick question before we wrap up. Plan C. Pros, design and manage in-house. Cons, requires two additional in-house staff. So you're saying you could manage it, but you'd have to hire additional personnel.

Do we need to make a decision today on the 2027?

Okay, it is Okay, it is for Thank you. It is 4 o'clock. I will call the September 28, 2026 line of city commission to order. I will look at staff for confirmation of the Kansas Open Meeting Act required notice has been properly provided.

Will those who are able please stand for the pleasure of allegiance and a moment of silence.

Okay, thank you. Here is a list on the resolution that lists the dollar amounts for petty cash handling. If there's no other comment, I will bring it back to the commission for action.

We have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda items 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, and 4.4. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That item passes 5-0. That will lead us to administration.

Start to my left or right? Sure. Doesn't matter. I have one or two. The 2027 budget, if the shelter were under the city control, and I'm glad we're here today to talk about approving this RFP, but the 2027 budget of $1,020,000 and less the fees, $858,000 and change Did that include anything for a vet? Because I know it had been talked about adding a vet to our...

Yeah. The issue of non-dog, non-cat animals being picked up, it looked like that went kind of back and forth in this issue.

Or in the community even, even in Salina.

My question is, we've gotten beat up a little bit because of bats and because of this. Yeah, we would not be handling those things. What do we do as animal control now when we get that call? Is it, do we say? Just that we don't provide that service. We don't provide that service, okay. That's it.

I didn't mean to... Oh, no, no problem. If that animal was considered a threat...

Okay. And... There is a proposal to increase the animal registration fees. I'm assuming there are a lot of animals in Salina right now that aren't registered. Assuming the public advertisement that goes over well and people are encouraged to bring the animals in, do those fees go to the city or to the shelter operator?

So that would be another source of strength. Okay. And I think that's all of my questions right now. Yeah.

A couple questions following up on the Saline County dogs and cats. I think we need to make sure that we have that worked out, you know, because I think part of our agreement when we took over the animal shelter and gave the county permission the health department was that we would take care of animal control in the county.

On page eight, it talks about pit bulls and offering those out for adoption outside of the city of Salina. We've been doing outside of Saline County for different reasons. Is there a reason we're going to change that?

That was just one of the points. The other thing is because, you know, obviously a vet's not here every day. And so if they're sick, injured, stray animals, whatever, and an animal has to go to a vet, is that our fee? Is that a fee paid by them? How do –

Perfect answer yeah and I don't know what the answer is I just that's just one of the items I think we needed to to have an answer on it's addressed in their initial agreement and we just need to work through it and make sure it is what we want it to be and what they want to be yeah other than that I those are the questions I came up with I believe from looking at it so mayor I have a a quick follow-up comment

Animal control, as it has been, seems to a lot of the community that has needed help has been less than responsive. And I'd like to think under the purview of the police department, available or responsive. I don't know what they might get wrapped up in in the shelter. I would think in the police department world that the chief will find something for them to do in their free time, but it seems like when a call came in they could be dispatched probably a lot quicker than what they are currently. And one One final comment before I'm done is, you know, it really is unfortunate with everything th

an enormous amount of time with this this year and perhaps over the last two three years just for clarity the police department is under direct city control understand yeah okay just didn't make me think of something is animal control are we on call 24 7. Yeah we are okay I just

In terms of they won't be cleaning the animal shelter or dealing with any of those things they won't be vaccinating animals or checking them in they'll just be dropping them off so they should have more time and I don't I don't know how we work that as far as with animal control personnel but I would think we'd want somebody on call you know typically so we we can cover the 24 7. So an injured dog at 10 30 at night on a Saturday the call goes to

Go to the police department. And then it'd be up to them to call, okay.

And I don't know if, because of people not knowing what to do, if they call Prairie Paws, I would guess they would have an answering machine or something that would direct them to the police department. We'd want to make sure that, so, okay. Okay.

Mr. Mayor, before we go to the community, I see Brandon getting out here. Do we have any questions for Brandon, or does Brandon want an opportunity to speak for a couple minutes?

I think we've asked. At least I have the questions I had. So I appreciate it. And obviously there's work to be done. Absolutely.

We're eager to get started. Does in Manhattan... Are there instances in which your own veterinarians are not available and you I don't know what the outside source would be there, but use local veterinarians.

And I don't know if this is a question for Matt or for staff, but a little timeline because, I mean, if we approve you today, you can't come in tomorrow. So a little guidance on the time frame between now and when Prairie Paws would actually take over?

This has nothing to do with this but by accident I was driving east and went by your facility in Ottawa so that's a nice looking facility. Did you guys build that or was that already there from the

Okay okay just one question about probably three of you for under the transition cost the computers tablets and hardware do those then become your property or are they owned by the city we would supply our own Kind of as there was $3,750 in the transition cost.

Okay, and the uniforms, the city would be?

Right, well, I know that it was just included in the transition costs.

Okay. Anything else? No I was just some of these I was just wondering why they weren't just put into the first year annual cost as opposed to separate then we'd pay an increase every year on that so I'm glad they put it as a single cost okay so all right thank you Matt thank you for being here yeah thank you thank you appreciate you guys did I say who could it said didn't somebody say Matt

I wrote down Matt. Sorry. I had Matt down for some reason. Okay. Okay. Any other questions? If not, we'll accept public comment. Please leave your comments to three minutes and give us your name.

I think address the commission. I guess what complaints are we talking about?

Yeah, those would not fall under animal control.

We're kind of talking about this prairie pause right now.

They stay with the city? Those complaints would not go to prairie pause. They stay with the city then? Yes. Okay. Thank you.

We're talking about the Prairie Paws contract right now.

No, I'm saying any comments on Prairie Paws agreement. But that was what part of the agenda. Norm, I'm not going to argue. We're talking about Prairie Paws right now. Thank you.

We're going to call him a little bit of everything today.

That's prairie paws that's part of the contract we're right now we have a contract with the county and so we're going to have to work through all that how we do animal control for the county and also prairie paws in their deal it does talked about animals within the city of Salinas so that's all to be worked out yet in the final agreement I mean the the reason I asked because I want to be sure that the city is not able to sabotage prairie paws this go-around like

I can guarantee they get a fair shot. We wish them success.

I don't know if I'd call it a watchdog because I'd call it a partnership. Well, we call it a contract. A contract. We have a contract.

After the revenue, we would have received 1,020,000 before.

Okay, thank you. Okay, anyone else? Okay, I will bring it back to the commission for action.

I'll move. that the City Commission accept the Prairie Paws proposal and direct staff to begin drafting a contract to be brought back to the City Commission for approval as soon as possible.

Second. We have a motion and a second to accept the Prairie Paws proposal and direct staff to begin drafting a contract to be brought back to the City Commission for approval. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That item passes 5-0. Thank you. Thank you, Brandon. Thank you, Brandon. Okay, that will lead us to item 5.2.

I have one. Natalie, the COLA, the 1.5%. Yes. If somebody's performance is not meeting the standard for unsatisfactory, do they still get a COLA adjustment?

All right, just my gut would be that anybody, if their performance is not satisfactory, I just, yeah, I don't think they should be getting any raise. And I know it's COLA, but anyway, just my thoughts.

OK, any other questions? OK, any comments from the public?

We have a motion and a second to approve resolution number 26-8377, adopting the staffing table, position classification, and salary schedule for 2027. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? That item passes 5-0. That will bring us to item 5.3.

Okay. I will look to my right to start any comments from the commission.

There are actually some suggestions here that I hadn't even thought of. I think, let me do a long-range suggestion first. Our study sessions have become a bit long. Bridget and I remember them when they were in the smaller room. We did have the opportunity for more citizen input and sometimes it would get down to a free-flowing conversation but that sometimes is a Nice environment in which to get comments from citizens. Our study sessions usually take the entire hour and a half, and there isn't any opportunity for public input. Written comments, and I like to answer written comments. Some of y

Thank you. Well, on that same topic, I think if we were going to do that, that somebody should still be able to sign up on the day of the meeting, at the start of the meeting. I think we could ease into it by even just having a list on a clipboard where they would put their name, print out their name, perhaps phone number, and just a topic they want to talk about. But they could do that on the day of meeting. First one arrives at the meeting would be the first one at the podium, if they so choose. That form could state that we're only gonna have, or we're only gonna allow perhaps five speakers

So we're saying per topic, are we speaking open forum? Are we talking because if you have agenda items, I guess that's, Commissioner Rimp, I guess that's my question. I'm not sure where we're at as far as both of you talking about topics.

Yeah, and I really don't have any problem with either way. I think the mayor has, I think the current policy already covers The way things should flow, he has the autonomy to take corrective action on the spot if it needs to happen. Again, I think we need to be more responsive and I would be fine. In fact, I would prefer no change at all, just everybody to be civil, which has already been mentioned at least once, perhaps twice by the other commissioners.

Yeah, as far as the sign-up, I guess we could try it. My whole concern about the meetings is the conduct. I found it to be somewhat... Hard to run a meeting when I have people yelling from the crowd. And we've managed to work through that. I've probably been a little more lenient than I should have been. But what really bothers me is when we have somebody from the public that was speaking, and then we had people from the public attacking that person. We're up here we're we know that's liable to happen I don't think that's fair when we have someone from the public being attacked by the others i

I'd just assume think on it right now. Okay.

I think we should keep doing what we have been doing. I think it was a great review. I think the best option is to table it to some day in the future if it were needed. but I think the message has been sent. One of the biggest, again, topics of frustration was pretty much taken care of tonight. We just continue on.

And before we get to public comment, one of the things I think Commissioner Davis made the comment, I wonder if we should do Think about doing staff. And I don't know if anybody else has seen this in other organizations where you do staff, public, and then comes back to the staff and commission. Because Mr. Winhold's question had been discussed, and we had it in the blue sheet. And so if he would have done that during public comment, if he would have come first, then we would have been able to address it easily. later on when we were discussing the deal.

Sorry, I'm paying attention. I apologize.

We're just talking about this. This isn't open forum yet. Yeah, we're just talking about the policy for- Speaking. Yeah. So we're not talking about roundabouts or all that. That will be later, right? Yes. Okay. You'll get that chance. Okay. Okay, thank you.

If we have a discussion, can we go out in the hall? Okay, thank you. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, Lori, not to interrupt. This is an open forum.

Maybe somebody limited wasn't here. I think they were talking about other communities, what they did.

Right now we're not putting any restrictions, so we're not putting any restrictions on anything. So those are questions we'd have to answer if we put something new into place.

Again, we're talking about You're kind of in open forum territory now. Do you have any comments about the process of...

Okay, thank you. Okay, if there's no other comment, I guess we are planning on leaving look at the other Commission everything is Status quo for now. This is okay Okay, that will there's no development business That will bring us to other businesses or an item a commissioner would like to bring before the group.

I Have a couple I my understanding the the rebate program change, maybe Jacob or somebody could speak to that. I know Jacob, you have mentioned a couple of months back about a water update, and I know we spent a lot of time on water earlier, but specifically as it relates to the rebate program.

Sorry. Follow up on that would be last meeting I mentioned, maybe it was a meeting before, but I'd like to see a water committee of citizens that can take a look at the testing, take a look at the parameters because we We put a policy in place that allowed a rebate that Commissioner Davis talked about going back to January 1 of last year. And as I understand it thus far, not one household has qualified. I think it would... I think it'd be better if we had a citizen committee taking a look at the data and maybe having some input on the parameters. Another topic. Sean, thank you for the apology.

Well, we always hear the bad. I just wanted to throw out an attaboy for you. I don't have anything else, Mayor.

Commissioner Lindquist? I have several things. I think some things came out at the last meeting that I wanted to address. One of them was there was a $5,000 incentive for individuals to move to the state. First, I thought somebody thought it was the city money. It's actually state money. Yeah, that was what it is, is the state of Kansas has a grant program that if we bring in individuals to community that would have a household earnings of at least $55,000 a year, they get a $5,000 incentive to move here. I talked with the Chamber of Commerce, and they've had 12 individuals for sure, and they

Is that how we tested your property? The first test. Okay.

I guess she could. I don't know what she's trying to do. I don't know if she's still here trying to find somewhere more convenient for everybody in your neighborhood. I don't know.

I guess we'll... I don't know who sets those up. Do we or OCCK?

What may help that discussion, I know other places around town, There were signs up this new bus stop coming, basically. Yeah, I don't know what happened. Just find out if a sign was ever placed there.

I would go to Sean Hennessy when you're talking to him.

Sean, could you have her sit down and give, or at least not, thank you.

Could you pull that microphone down maybe a little bit? I'm not sure if they can hear you. Okay, thank you.

Okay. I don't think he has seen that. If you would get that to him.

Okay, anyone else? Okay, if not, I'll accept a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. We have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed?