City Council - public_hearing

Okay, good evening, folks. It is Thursday, September 24th. It is 5.09 p.m. This is the Binghamton City Council 2027 Budget Hearing Number 3. City Council is assembled as a committee of the whole. Finance Chair is chairing this meeting, and I will call the meeting to order. Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

Thank you Okay this evening. We're going to start with the fire department budget and we have New Fire Chief, Chief Edwards here presenting for the first time, I think, before Council. Welcome. Good evening. Thank you. You want to get up close to that mic, I think. All right. Just pull it. Yeah.

All right. So we're going to take a motion to open budget pages 66 to 71. I'll motion. Fire Department capital lines on 204 and 205.

All in favor? Aye. Aye. Thank you. Chief, would you like to start your summary?

So the plan is to do what they've done with the mechanic and have the helper be also with the fire union and not with the Teamsters?

Okay. But the intent is to add this, we will have to add this to the budget?

I'm sorry, add this to the budget prior to it being finalized at the end of this month? No, I don't think so. Okay, so we don't need to find additional funding to fill this line in this process. But we do ultimately. We do ultimately, but are we doing that?

And then timeline-wise, Chief, when that can be added and inserted back into the full scope?

So the timeline for that would be sufficient for starting in 2027, as far as what you need?

And that's in addition to the paramedic adjustment they already? Correct, it's not related to the 5%.

Are you able to project what your next major apparatus or equipment need is going to be or project a five year replacement plan?

Whether just projecting knowing what you anticipate needing.

Could you expound on what the charter states relative to avoidable fire alarm billing?

So at this low fee, I mean, I can't imagine the juice is worth the squeeze to try and enforce this policy at this cost, or at this fine, if you will. So you're starting to track every void of alarm at all these different addresses and you're whacking them for 25 bucks after the third time?

Yeah, I mean, just that amount of money seems, versus like handing out a parking ticket where, boom, you have a parking ticket. Like, the process is all there. It seems like this is very small potatoes for the amount of administration this might require. I agree.

Yeah, and I think, I mean, we, would be open to, if you're looking to introduce a request for legislation to change the language, happy to work with you on that toward the language that Corp Council just used. What did you say, greater de-incentive?

Chief or Megan is there any way you guys could determine how many of them are construction projects where the dust is setting off the fire alarm because I know that happens within the school districts when there's doing remodeling and stuff and how many of them are considered like would it be more it's one contractor doing it over multiple addresses and job sites versus it's just that one address

Yeah, I mean, I just know there was times even when we would work at Binghamton schools, you try to put plastic around all the butt, she rock dust, silica dust, it does set them off. And I mean, is it more repeat offenders versus addresses to where then I would rather see that we're digging the right people. To the offender.

What is the, so it makes complete sense to me under the fire department, what is the, it doesn't make sense to me under the, and this may just be lack of familiarity with protocol, in what way would BPD be involved? Burglar alarms.

This might be a Chuck question, but under personnel services, the grade change adjustment is a negative number. Can you explain the grade change adjustment and why it's a negative number?

It depends on promotion time, okay. Paramedic insurance, my frequent question about insurance, have we been that out recently?

we had a number of conversations last year around potential grant opportunities available to the fire department is there anyone in the department that's or elsewhere that's tasked with seeking new grant opportunities for department costs the fire marshal okay Are there any major?

Thanks Chuck. Are there any major grants that are really or contracts that are that are sunsetting that are close to ending and will that leave us with a gap in resources in any capacity?

Am I remembering correctly that we, in the 2026 budget conversation, broke out a line specifically to year-over-year address the turnout gear need?

I know you said something about the fire station. Can you give an update on the timeline and everything with the fire station?

You know how construction works. You never know.

So, Chief, two things. As far as ambulance billables, we have the outside ambulance billing service. We're paying for. How are our receivables, billables looking? Are we continuing to improve our recoveries? How does the revenue picture look and the value of the billing service?

Can you get some details for us before Comptroller's presentation, whatever date that is? Sure, like numbers. When we go over the revenue pages, yeah. Sure. See what they look like. Thank you. And then, so Chief, so broken out for mostly the fire headquarters is all of the different maintenance components and contracts we have. And then we still have the FEMA, FEMA, Siemens fee of $22,500. What are they actually doing for their fee every year as far as systems?

All right. I guess that might, unless you have somewhere else to go, that might conveniently bring us to your capital requests.

It's so hot So I think this goes back to design parameters for the station, which I wasn't around for. You and me both. I agree. I mean, it's literally kind of a greenhouse. There's big glass doors on both ends of the garage bay.

So even this is going to be running. So do we have an idea of the energy costs additional to that that we're going to have to budget for? I don't. But I'll get that for you. To heat and cool this extra space with these systems. Does this new addition integrate with your wonderful Siemens computer system that's costing $22,000 a year?

So that won't be working together with the rest of the building?

I mean, this is not directed at you, but this just seems ridiculous. Yes, agreed.

Do you have a mechanism to prevent the same kind of design challenges with the new station?

Okay. Okay. And have we, or if you, given, I mean there's reality and then there's design guidelines and energy efficiency standards and stuff. Was, do we know? if they built to maximum specifications as far as cooling capacity versus the anticipated load? This is kind of a technical question, but.

whether they undersized the system accidentally or, I'm trying to figure out where, you know. Where the problem happened. We're all frustrated at this.

Well, I got a question for Corp Council. So it seems like this seems to be a history, whether it was rec park tennis courts, Now the ramp on Water Street because of the apartments not being on top and the drains being wrong, now it seems like some of the design and the construction is not correct on the fire station. Why do we not go back after the developers and the contractors to recoup some of this money instead of to keep putting money in projects that we've already spent taxpayer money on to build in the first place?

Yeah, it just seems like, I mean, we keep spending taxpayers' money to build different projects, and the infrastructure's needed, but then that's the whole part of enacting lowest responsible bidder law was to prevent this in the first place, which obviously the fire department happened before, but it seems like this just keeps being a reoccurring event, and as a construction guy, I don't care if it's a union or non-union contractor. They need to do the job right, or they need to recoup the city for it.

And, Chief, I was racking my brain earlier this afternoon, and I haven't come up with the exact RRL or transfer, but please let me know if you remember. We already went back in to do work on the fire station, I think, for extra insulation and weatherproofing and such. Do you remember that? I don't. Am I the only one that has this memory?

No, I remember that. We definitely talked about that last year.

I just don't remember. But at least I don't think I'm crazy. I think if Mike remembers, okay.

Okay. All right. Not Mandela affecting myself. Okay. All right. So let's see, we can stack up on HVAC. Ambulance, as you mentioned, we're getting a grant for the ambulance. Senator Webb, correct. And then I think what Council Member Rathmell was getting at earlier was We've got the two large pieces of apparatus coming, the new tower and the new quint, right? Correct, yep. Coming, what would be, what's next on the horizon as far as, not just repairs, but like as far as your kind of mental thing, aging equipment and what we're looking to replace?

Chief, what's been the lead time for these vehicles? Like, obviously, I know with a lot of construction rigs being fitted, it's two, sometimes three years out. Is that kind of what you ran into with the Quint truck?

Just as a formality, I didn't open the fees page, but we discussed it, so motion to open. I'll motion to open page 208. I'll second. Page 209, thank you. Thank you. All in favor of opening 209? Aye. I'm sorry, 208 fire items. It's 208 fire. It's the alarm thing we talked about before. I just didn't open that page when I opened the other ones. All right, that's all. Any other questions, concerns, thoughts for the chief or from the chief? Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Is there a motion to close any of the pages?

Nobody's making a motion. Okay. Next on the hit parade here, golf budget. And we have Chris Strand joining us. Oh, and possibly some other people. But Chris Strand from Troon Golf and might as well have our Parks and Rec Director Pat McGinnis come down. That's what I did at the last meeting, and then Jen stopped the meeting, decided we didn't have a motion to open them. We literally stopped the meeting. Chuck came up and talked to her to have them do motions, and I thought we had this session last year. We didn't have to do motions, but I've now started doing motions.

Talk to your junior colleague. Okay, good evening. Chris, I think we've talked on the phone once or twice, but I have not met you in person. Welcome.

All right, so we've got your summary, I think.

We're going to just open the pages formally here. Sure. Motion to open pages 137 and 145 and 213. I'll make a motion. All in favor? Aye. All right, so everyone on page 137.

Can you explain to me, really quick, you said that it's worth it. Can you explain to me what about it is worth it?

Do, so you did add, you started with more of a high level reasoning in terms of weather for profit comparisons for the individual lines so there's a number of lines that fell far below the projected 2026 amount but I'm not seeing where those projections were lowered for 2027 to reflect what might be a more reasonable expectation

We have a reporting timing issue, and I asked finance to try and get updated reports before tonight, and here he comes down the stairs with them. So Troon reports to the city, and then the city puts everything into Munis, but the stuff that Troon sends us is not in the same format that goes into Munis, so it all has to be translated and entered. Correct. So these budget numbers were actually dating back to... when probably a long time I don't know April so we're missing in almost most of the golf season so yeah because I have I have kind of what you're seeing and I wrote all my own numbers in

All right, so now that we have some updated numbers in front of us, food and beverage concessions. We brought in a new food and beverage management position last year. We've invested in a new deck. I think we got some new kitchen equipment. And it looks like we're not necessarily seeing that translate to increased revenues this year.

Okay, but breaking down, I mean, it's still, you had 24,000 people walking through the door. With the significant improvements we were hoping for in style and type of offerings and the potential of using the deck, I would have thought we would at least meet what we were doing two years ago.

ProShop sales also seem to be about half of last year. Yes.

So, like, I don't clearly see Pro Shop, so somebody's got to be there physically selling merchandise, right? Yeah, whoever's at the counter checking golfers also sells the merchandise. So that's one combined position that's handling?

Next big item, I think, is probably the golf cart situation. Do you want to, so we've had, refresh my memory, how many golf carts? 60 golf carts. I'm sorry, 60 or 65? 60. 60 carts.

We need it here, too, inside of here. We definitely need to start talking about, that's another conversation, but we do need to make sure that people have access to this.

Okay, Patrick, since you're up here. Shoot, that was a mistake. So we have the deck, even though it's not ADA compliant. We're putting on new siding. What are the next capital asks, major infrastructure projects?

So as far as you stay open until the weather turns, right?

So we cross our fingers for some nice days this fall to get that round count up.

Just curious, your two cold might be different from my two colds. Is there a temperature cap, or what are you talking about here?

Sorry, I was talking here. How do people know about events at the golf course? Do you guys have like a calendar that you put up or?

I know some people said they wanted to visit the golf course but they were they didn't really know too much about it.

Is there any as far as Marketing and and and customer tracking is there do you have any idea any numbers on how what's our? Annual member turnovers it mostly the same folks are we adding new? new blood to that pool Yeah, we've been at a we've been at it. That's similar 190 ish similar member right similar overall number, but are we adding some newer perhaps younger folks at all or or I think you know that we're getting a

Different unique visitors, new unique visitors.

Not being familiar with your started situation up there, Just throwing this out there. Is there any merit to the idea of maybe keeping 10 or a dozen of the old carts without GPS that you can offer at a cheaper rate than the GPS carts in the spirit of keeping things a little bit more affordable for folks that are more conscious of cost?

got a question on the green fees so here on the munis report it says uh year-to-date actual is negative 478 000 and change but according to the budget line cr42027 it says encumbered or expended through 915 2026 negative 765 000 in change why do we have a difference

Yeah, I mean, I understand that, but I mean, according to this Munis report, this says all the way to the end of the month should be accurate, and then obviously that the budget that the mayor gives us should be accurate to the 15th. That's still over a $300,000 discrepancy that doesn't make any sense if you're waiting for revenues to come in to pay that out. How are you giving us two reports that are supposed to be dated around the same time, but yet have a $300,000 discrepancy?

Yeah, the 765 versus the 478,000. So what was given to us in the budget through 915 says negative $765,845.60. But according to MUNIS, as of 930, 2026, the year to date actual is $478,539.22. That's a huge difference to me. Lines are moving and we're waiting for revenue to come in to break it out when one is basically saying it's been expended through September, $765,000, and the other one's saying, no, we've only paid $478,000. Right.

Well, if that's the case, Chuck, because CNN says this report was generated today on Munis, how did you come up with the negative 765,000 then to be encumbered? Which report? So the Munis report, year-to-date budget report for the golf course that was printed, looks like the report was generated today at 258, states for line 42027, negative 478,000 is the year-to-date. Okay. Right. How did you come up with negative 765,000 that has been expended in the same line in the budget? Because that number would have come out first before this was generated today.

Anyone else have any more golf-related questions?

So I don't, we're not using cheap or, we're not using that language, but we are concerned about affordability for residents.

And we want to make sure that people get what they pay for, like, you know, that's.

So under the heading of business decision, when the club championship was moved multiple times, was that to accommodate higher paying tournaments that would then messing up schedules for members or? Potentially.

It comes back to striking that balance, I think, between residents and long-term users, of course, and trying to build a business, and it's a tough position to put you folks into, but it's essential to try and get it right.

Anything else? Any motion to close any pages?

No? Okay. Gentlemen, thanks for coming down. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. You may get a couple information requests for some more detailed... What was that? You might get a couple information requests for a little more detailed stuff. Sure. Understood. I'm particularly still looking at the food and beverage situation. And I... Now, looking at the new report, so Green's fees are only lagging We've collected like 84% of our projected greens fees, but cart rentals are only 57% of projection, which I would think they would kind of be more in tandem of projection to actual revenue, because m

The amount we raised, it doesn't matter from last year. It's the amount we've collected of that fee and the amount we've collected so far in cart fees versus the projection. And I would expect them if we were off to be close, but maybe not. Anyway. Understood. All right, thank you. Anyone wanna take a break for five minutes? we okay yes we want to push through take a break i'll motion to take a recess for five minutes yeah i'll second all in favor aye all right five minute recess everyone i motion i think canasta seconded i think or kenya i think can you second it

No, I just had a beef patty. It is. And then when you say something, it's like defensive, like how dare you say something.

So Bob, if we prove to purchase four vehicles,

costing a maximum amount of X number of dollars. Instead, they just bought five vehicles without telling anybody. Is that a problem? You've authorized the amount. It is bad. Why do you just get to go spend the extra money without asking?

Because what would have stopped them from buying? I don't know. Snowmobiles for the fire department instead with their extra vehicle money. I don't know. I would sort of say so, like we authorized four vehicles. That's what you told us you needed. and out they came in at a budget that's nice great we get to save a few bucks or we get to make a decision do we get to save a few bucks or do we get ahead for next year I think that's the purview of counsel HVAC system that doesn't integrate with the building system that we've spent millions of dollars on.

I call engineering tasks about it. The fire department didn't ask us about anything. Like, I'm sorry.

And again, we have Siemens contract for a building control system that now you're adding a large piece of that isn't integrated to that apparently.

I mean, I don't think our headaches there are over. I think we're going to have things going down the road. So might as well make that decision now whether we're going to... and did they warn us about that do they say we can do this but here are the risks or they're like oh we can do that you weren't here either yeah

No, I'm gonna grab one. I'm gonna go get a piece of pizza. Carol, aren't you also doing a moral degree? He's sort of tearing down the building.

All right, well, call us back to order. And we are going to have Parks and Rec next. Could I have a motion to open pages 83 to 92, 95 to 97, and 204 and 205?

Aye. Thank you. Let's turn to 83. Commissioner Pat McGinnis with us.

I would like to take a minute to thank you for generating this and being the department that has so far come closest to actually breaking out costs for overtime use and event related costs and things. So thank you for the time and effort and pie chart.

Pat, the board ups and police call outs, would you attribute those to, are those largely or almost entirely vacant properties that we're talking about? Why, can you help me understand why that would come out of parks and not something related to the code department?

the color gradation is a little challenging. Is it that's the 19 or that's the two percent?

That's fair. I think, has there been discussion So presumably, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're getting those calls, though, because of deficiencies in management within the code department regarding those properties. I don't mean management, largely. I mean maintaining the properties and the capacity of the... So have there been conversations around...

We're going to mow a lawn It's a pretty significant chunk of what we do So daytime impact I mean this is representing overtime and after hours, but daytime impact is significant.

Do you happen to have the former line? So what that equipment parts line used to be when it was under DPW?

I would imagine, I don't know if this is a Chuck question or a Megan question, do we have a recommendation for finding the money that isn't represented?

Looking for the page, I'm just curious. I know mistakes happen, but can you just maybe explain the oversight with this physician not being included? I'm just, what happened?

So we needed to have another one, so two.

Megan, I'm curious. So here on the breakdown from the Parks Department, it says the new rec leader is going to be $36,400. But what you have in the budget is the new rec leader is going to be $38,111, which is the same as what the rec leader is at the senior center. So which amount are you planning to pay the rec leader?

Okay, I was just confused because of the salary descriptions I got. It says rec leader deleted with no money at all, according to CSEA salary guide for 26, 2027. Thank you. I don't know what that is either. Okay, okay.

No, no, I'm talking the actual CSCA salary breakdown. And it literally has rec leader deleted 36,400 annual pay 2026 for 2027 to be zero.

That's the one in the... That's kind of why I'm asking, because I'm looking at one salary in the budget, one salary in your breakdown, and then something according to the CSCA salary guide that says deleted.

No, no, and I mean, that's obviously the union's contract, but like I said, when I'm looking at three different things, it's kind of confusing on where would the starting point be, because I could see where it was in parks that the rec leader was defunded there, and then it moved into for the... under the recs rec center for personal services and then you have one also at the senior center so it's just trying to match up the numbers page 83 has the deleted recreational leader yeah and then 89 is where it has it listed as 38 111.

So Commissioner, under your general operating supplies, we've got stuff for Summer Fun and Safety Town, and there's just one line for operating supplies for the rec center. Is that reflective of the current programming going on, or is that allowing for growth with the new rec leader and the new incoming programming?

I had a question too regarding that. Do you know how many kids you accept for Summer Fun?

It's my daughter's first job, and she loved it. She loved it the last two years. She's loved it, so it's been her first job.

I wanted to make one suggestion. This is from my daughter. I told her I was coming today. She asked me to ask you when you, next year, she's gonna work there again before she goes to college. She was wondering if there's a way that when the kids come, is there a way we can do better and take on the information we receive from children? I know that it can't be, like, you can't, you know, not take people because they have certain needs and issues, but she was just saying, like, there were some kids who weren't potty trained, and she, you know, just things of that nature so that's just my suggest

Okay, yes, and I'm gonna tell her that I, she asked me to ask you that.

Thank you. Just a... I didn't say that. There's a professional services line. We'll work on it. There's a professional services line under the rec center for $2,000. I just wondered what you said. Professional services?

It's a real beach. The South Side thanks you.

do you let's say your mention of the county youth bureau prompted this and this may also be a question for council member middleton and the conversations that you've been having has there been internal discussion about reinstating a youth bureau at the city level there has not to me um

so our so we're we plan to meet again soon we were supposed to have one on wednesday but i was out sick um but yeah that is something that we would like to bring back to the city of binghamton and that's kind of one of the goals to having it um but yes that that's up for discussion so that way we can do things i mean it's great to get that money from the county and things but kind of for us to sponsor our own like city of binghamton events and that's kind of where I mean I feel like out of out of everyone when it comes to like if something goes wrong like it's always like the city the city the

Senior Center? Adult Rec and Senior Center?

I can't believe there's not demand for a pickleball league or something.

Any long-term maintenance or capital needs potentially there?

While it's going to be housed under parks, this is not something that I'm doing in a bubble.

Do you know if that six million covers, so we've talked I think since the beginning of at least this council's term with the introduction of the hotel occupancy tax and that revenue going toward Morabito Stadium maintenance, contractual requirements for the city. Do you know if this six million covers that as well or would it, should it be considered separate from that contractual obligation?

I know also this has led to- Or our debt service, which is what the money from the hotel tax kind of goes towards.

Pat, when you say a mini excavator, do you mean a rubber tire mini excavator or one with tracks?

Can you share with me the plans for a first ward, the court specifically? I know last year we talked about that, and we were under the impression that it was supposed to be taken care of this season, but it hasn't.

So are you saying that that's Where is that included?

It was already included in last year's one?

So upcoming is what you're saying? They're in the application process right now. So the RFP that was just released, which would make those funds available beginning next September or October.

When I asked last year, I was told that it was supposed to be taken care of this year. So that's my confusion. I'm just trying to get a better understanding so I have a response for residents.

Do we need to double-check, confirm, make sure? What does that look like?

I get angry text messages and phone calls, so I'm just following up. And it's also a little bit of a liability, because if you try to use that, there's weeds growing through the cracks, and it's just not safe.

So that came available like this month? Just this month.

Yeah. So between now and next, I know the work that was done with the previous year, CDBG, for example, at Webster Street Park, that really advanced early summer, midsummer. So we're still looking at spring to summer, but this year.

The hanging baskets on Tompkins Bridge and Riverside Drive, like that, the basic stuff that we may not notice, but if those wither and die, we probably would get complaints.

Is there a department policy that requires the vehicles, the Bronco, the trucks to keep running even if someone is, so I see this pretty regularly at Webster Street Park, so the Bronco or pickup, whatever is in the It gets kind of driven up on the, and it just stays running for however long the person is checking on stuff at the pool?

So an F-250 won't do, you need the 350 for the plowing, is that?

Yeah, the zero term. And this brand anyway seems to run from like three grand to like 19 grand or so. I think it was the most expensive one.

And that meets the specs you need, not a six or $8,000 one?

believe it just ends up in the city general fund yeah it's in the it's in the general fund in the property cleanups line yeah but it's using their equipment so i mean obviously

So grass cutting, snow removal... Last year was 147,000 in 2025 revenue. 2026 so far 167,675.50. That's beyond just grass cutting, though. That's the other general property cleanup. Yeah, everything. And it's listed as public works charges, but it's really public works and parks, and probably mostly parks at this point that actually does it, right?

Any other parks, questions, thoughts, feelings?

Anyone good? Anyone want to close any pages? No, all right. Thank you, Commissioner McGinnis.

Sounds great, thank you very much. Yeah. Okay.

Councilman Cavanaugh. Yes. We are thinking that if we can have a conversation about moving personnel to adjourn for the night. Okay.

Thoughts? I'm open to have that discussion. Director Kendra Dease has been waiting very patiently. How do you feel about another evening? Do you really want to go?

I just have follow-up questions about the budget and the questions that were emailed is separate than the ones that we have for clarification.

I understand that that was short notice and that you may require some additional time to respond to that.

I just wanted to jump in. I think one of the reasons why Councilmember Murray wanted to and myself and Mike it's just because like after a while even though I know it's a short period of time like you're not really retaining information so it's kind of like one of those things like we really want to answer some questions but like just the day and personally me I'm coming off an illness so like my like bandwidth is kind of not a hundred percent that's just my personal thing that's why I thought about it but If everybody else is in agreement, I know Mike is not feeling well, I'm coming off an il

With apologies to the personnel director, is there a motion to adjourn then?