City Council - Regular Meeting

Good morning everyone. It is 9 a.m., it is Wednesday, September 23rd, and we are having our council meeting here. One of the things I'm gonna say really quick is when you come up to the podium, you have to actually press the button and look for it to be read in order to talk, otherwise we won't hear you. Okay, we'll do a roll call. Karlo, for the invocation, please.

Next will be the Pledge of Allegiance. And if we have any veterans in the room, if you can, please stand. I know the Colonel can't stand, but everybody else, please stand if you're a veteran. Thank you for your service and our freedom. Do we have any announcements?

Our next meeting actually is tonight right here at 5.01. It's gonna be our city budget meeting.

No, okay. So we'll start off with our proclamations. The first one is our Florida Native Plant Month.

Kristen, will you please join me? It's my honor to present this proclamation on behalf of the city of Punta Gorda. Whereas Florida's natural resources are a foundation of our economy and quality of life, And Florida's native plants provide both economic and ecological benefits. And whereas native plants and their relationship with insects and other anthropods create the biological foundation for all ecosystems and life on Earth. And whereas Florida's native plants are adapted to extreme conditions and once established can survive heat, drought, and hurricanes better than non-native ornamental

If you all want to go up and get a picture, that would be great.

Mike, do you want to invite everybody else to come up and have a picture?

Anybody else associated with the native plants? No, we're proud of you, though.

Carol. It's such an honor for me as a veteran and knowing Post 103 and all the things that they've done and auxiliary is a huge portion of this. And they actually, to even testify, we had a drone show this year, our very first one. And who are the people who actually stepped up and helped out a lot is our auxiliary. So thank you so much for that. And with that, I'm gonna read the proclamation. Whereas D.N. McQueen American Legion Auxiliary Unit 103 has reached a distinguished milestone of 100 years of dedicated service to veterans, military personnel, their families, and the community. And whe

That's Carol's son, Matt, who also works for the city, which is fantastic.

That was awesome, thank you. What a great start to our morning. Next on the agenda is public input. The first one is anybody who wants to introduce themselves for a nominee for a board or committee. And if you want to do so at this time, please just state your name for the record.

Again, for a board or committee. One last time for board or committee.

Tim, please. Please, Tim, sit down. Thank you. This isn't the appropriate time to say anything, OK? This is board of committees. Thank you. Okay, seeing as nobody has risen, we're going to change to public input. This is where you can speak, okay? So anybody wishing to address the council on any matter must state their name for the record. Each person will be allowed to speak up to a maximum of three minutes.

Yes, you can go up and just state your name for the record, please. And you have three minutes.

Did you... Our city attorney just did. He was the one who did it. I think we were so engrossed in what you were saying, we didn't realize three minutes went by. I'm so sorry.

We can... Okay, council says we can give you...

Thank you. That was perfect. That was an extra minute. Yeah. It really went by fast.

Thank you very much. Do you need that to be dropped down? Okay. Does the podium go down a little farther yet? That's raising it.

Direction should be towards Council, please.

I stand on the United States. Please state your last name.

Tim, please take a deep breath and just speak normal. You're threatening to stab people on TikTok.

Tim. Anybody else wishing to speak this morning? Okay, we're gonna go ahead and move on then. Mr. Leskovich, do you want to read 3A?

Anybody else have any questions? This is open to public. Oh, great. Wait, sorry. Do it again, Greg.

Yeah, I'm opening it. Okay, we're gonna now open up to public. Anybody want to speak on this? Please state your name. You have three minutes and press the button to get

I think that's not, I thought that was on the advisory board. Oh, Sarah.

Do we have anyone else wishing to speak? Can I get a motion?

Sorry, I think you hit me first. Move to close public hearing. I second.

We have to turn people off here. OK. So we have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Discussion?

All in favor to close it? Aye. Aye. OK. Five. Yep. OK. So it's five. So no opposition.

Yes, I received a concern about on page 14, it takes all staff review and even new construction has to go to the HPAB. That makes no sense. And it will significantly slow things down. Can we address that?

Yeah, I don't think we ought to do that. I think we need to re-delegate decision-making authority to the staff that was taken away because we don't want to slow down progress.

I don't know if it's slowing it down. I think it's just moving it from one person to another. But you think it's going to slow it down? Excuse me.

My understanding was it was tough to get meetings with staff, though, which actually could delay it even longer.

awesome um yeah i'm not in favor of slowing anything down so just walk us through the process so if they have to apply with staff anyway wouldn't that be a good opportunity to have that meeting with staff but right now that would delay if they're going right to the historic correct that what i'm understanding i'm just trying to so the current process

So could we change it where the new construction is a little more streamlined? I mean, would that be helpful rather than the demo process? I'm just trying to figure out what's the best streamline. That's all.

It still would come to council even if you're making the decision? If it goes to staff, it still comes to council anyway we do it, right?

And I think that's something that we actually asked for is for it to come to council.

We have added a lot of time to a lot of processes, permitting and so forth, by removing staff ability to make decisions. And I think we need to re-delegate those authorities back to the staff who are trained and experienced in making those decisions. We are not.

Well, I guess the other concern is Just as we just saw, we didn't have a quorum, so the meeting didn't happen. So then what if they don't have a quorum of people? Now the meeting doesn't happen, and now that's even more. So I'm not warm and fuzzy with that. You know what I mean?

I agree with that. I think that would be logical.

Just thinking outside the box, and I agree, streamline new, but is there a way if we're finding that we can't, you know, if it's going to historic board and historic board doesn't have a quorum, can we just say, well, because you don't, you go to staff, you know, like it's an automatic from one to another so that we help keep it streamlined the best that we can. Mr. Leskovich.

I would like to ask then, how can we amend the ordinance to add the staff back in and remove any of the excess timeframe?

So it looks here what was Section 16.3 is your application of the certificate of appropriateness. And I actually do think that that needs to be followed through the historic board as well. And it is going to staff anyhow to send it to them. So it's always been that process. But I think that they are the ones, I think both are excellent people to do it. I think that we were looking at who has the approval of the certificate of appropriateness, but I'm fine. I think if we did it, we'd just have to look at section 16.3 so we could amend that part of it if we wanted to. Here, do you want it?

lined out approved by the zoning official yeah and now it's lined out crossed out to be submitted to the historic preservation board so if we just took that out and kept it with the zoning official is that what you're saying would be the best thing to do then so that just that one area would need to be it's not just that one area because when you're looking at the ordinance you have to look at it

Exactly. I think that's all we're talking about.

I think in previous when we were looking at zoning officials, we all agreed that it went to city council in a previous ordinance that when we were working on the zoning officials back earlier in the beginning of the year is what we had already changed that it was coming to city council. So I guess that's what I'm saying. It either goes to one or the other. And if we're worried that the historic board may not have enough people for a quorum, if it goes to the zoning official, I think that would be fine.

It doesn't make it, it doesn't change it. It still is 30 days if we're just changing it from zoning official to HPB.

16 of 34D. Shall be filed. It's actually with the circuit court.

Oh I see it 45 days But it still goes from something so yes you are correct But that would just be changed to the zoning official So C would also be changed to zoning official instead of the HPB.

So in order to save time and come back again, can we have you that you look at it, that it does flow with zoning official for certificate of appropriates. That way we can do it with those recommendations. So it flows easier because otherwise it's putting this onto the council meeting, which is actually delaying time for everybody once again. So especially for people who want to get this done today and have the, you know, six months started. So, uh, my question would be to go ahead and change it so that it, it, applies zoning official with certificate of appropriateness so that it can move alon

That's what I'm saying, is to give you the provision of doing it without it coming back to us, because then that delays time for our folks all of our homeowners and everything. So we want to say, yes, go ahead and look at this, make the changes that we are talking about today so it gets done, we can sign it, and then you just do the Scrivener's errors.

Yeah, I would like to eliminate all the excess reviews, re-delegate decision-making authorities to the people that actually are trained and experienced in it and not cause delays in just even making improvements to exterior even have to go through that. And I think it's more burdensome.

and so why then does it need to come to us I think most decision-making still does come to us and I think that's what we did so that was something that we decided like I said a few months ago when we talked about zoning official and their duties yeah

Way back, almost two years ago, we withdrew so much decision-making authority from the staff, and we've added a lot of more burden and time to the processes. And I want to go back to what it was before. I would like to readopt what was in the 2024 version and re-delegate those authorities.

So where are we at? So I think we're all in agreement we want to make sure whatever's streamlined, we streamline. I just don't, you know, however that looks. I agree that the historic board should be involved in it. I don't think it always has to necessarily come back to us. We know new construction doesn't. So where does this leave us with what we want to do today? And I agree with you, Mayor, that I don't see a reason why, if we want to make tweaks, that we can't pass it based on A, B, and C, and then you can always bring it back for a final review, but it's done. It's already done.

I think that's what I was saying, too, is, you know, just going again, talking about certificate of appropriateness to instead of having it go to historic preservation board only because of the worry that, you know, they might not have a quorum. So it streamlines it to change it to zoning official in any areas. And then also, Rachel had made the recommendation of the the slight changes in 8.1 h two to four. I think that's where we stand.

So then we could, I'm not gonna make a motion right this second, but so we could then, that would kind of be the motion. The motion would be to pass this today with those proposed changes. And the resolution. And then the resolution would come back with those changes. Yeah, is that correct? Yes. Okay. Are we ready to make a motion? I did have one more question, though. In regards to 717 West Marion, the lady that's here, where does she stand with that?

No. Not to bring it back to us. We're voting to have it happen for you to make the Scrivener's errors and then it's done. That way it doesn't come back to us and we're talking and having another half hour discussion on something that we've had several meetings on already.

Sorry. So then I'll make the motion that we're going to move forward with 3A with the discussed changes and directing city attorney and staff to make those changes and fix Scribner errors. But I'm making a motion to pass this today.

Hang on. When is the turn? There we go. Okay.

Okay, so we have a motion and a second on the floor. Anybody oppose this? Seeing no one opposes it, motion passes. Thank you.

So there is a resolution that is also attached to this. Does anybody have any discussion on the resolution? So you want us to make a motion?

OK. We have a motion and a second on the floor. That was Melissa Lockhart who seconded. OK. Anybody oppose this? Seeing no opposition, motion carries.

Okay, let's go ahead and get everybody settled in. Please, please. Oh, can we, I'm gonna ask that we have 6B done first, only because he's here. He's been here since.

Okay, Mr. Listakovich, can you go ahead and read 4A for us?

Anybody have any questions on this? If not, can we get a motion? You want to talk or, I don't think anybody, nope, okay.

Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second on the floor. I don't know who you're going to say for second. It was pretty even, so Lockhart. Okay, anybody oppose this? Seeing no one opposes it, motion carries. Okay, consent agenda. Anybody want to pull anything on the consent agenda? Yes. Can I pull 5A? Okay. So with the exception of 5A being pulled. I'll move to approve everything else.

Okay, we have a motion and a second to approve everything but 5A. Any opposition? Okay, motion carries.

The only thing I wanted to just be clear on 5A, I know that they're making, they're wanting to close a road this year and next year. And I wanted to make sure we still have in place where you can only close a year, a road once a year, right? That was discussed at the pre-agenda meeting.

It isn't. It isn't what? It is not once a year. I know we thought it too, but we were told it is not.

We talked about that several years ago. That I think with the exception of Celtic Ray, I think we had said that we weren't going to allow closures. When did that change? Do you know?

Oh, wait, wait. Rachel, I think it's trying to talk here, but let's Greg go off.

This is technically two different years.

Right, and I realize that, and that's why I wanted to make sure that if that was the case, that they themselves were aware of that. So just food for thought, this actually came about back when, before it was Ortega, it was the other owner, I think it was Social House, whatever it was called, and they wanted to close the street down like every other weekend, and we had a very long discussion about that, and at that time, that's when we had discussed that. So maybe something we want to discuss for the future, but that's where that came from, just so you're aware. So, okay. With that, I mean, I'l

OK. We have a motion and a second. Anybody oppose? No one opposes. Motion carries. Thank you. With the regular agenda, I'm going to ask that five Oh, excuse me. 6B be brought up first because we do have Naples Commissioner Bill McDaniels here today. Drove up from Naples to come talk because he is our chair for the Southwest Florida Regional Planning Council. And he's here to answer any questions. Is that okay?

That's Rachel again. You'll be here. Rachel's going to start. And sir, once she's done talking, when you press the button, when it goes red, then we'll be able to hear you. So red is stop. No, red is talk. Let's go. We're opposite here.

Yes, I did attend the Southwest Florida Inc. State of the Region, and I appreciate your position.

Right, but I do appreciate your position on Amendment 3 as well. And I met with Commissioner Taseo last week to ask why they withdrew. And he basically said they didn't find the additional layer of bureaucracy beneficial. And so they haven't been contributing or participating since I think 2018. That's correct. And so I'm concerned about that. I talked to some staff. After our town hall on our land development regulation not too long ago, members of the RPC were there. and then left abruptly without even participating. And our staff says that they don't communicate any longer. They've reached

Dr. Eckert, also, I think you explained on Monday to Mr. Julian about but had procedurally what we thought about, I think that needs to be explained again.

Appreciate you coming up You know my view on this is things have changed over the years You know a lot of these regional plannings were kind of put together back when other cities didn't have access to the technology We have now they didn't have access to all the information that we have now. They didn't have the planning departments Etc. And you know having a on staff, you know grant coordinator. So I think the landscape has changed and I think that right now with Amendment 3 looming over us and us trying to be tightening our belts and trying to find where we can cut, I think that this would

I did ask another question on Monday. My understanding is the RPCs were established to prevent negative impacts on one community from activity from another. And my concern is what is the RPC's position on Mosaic and the damage to the Peace River and our harbor, all of our seagrass and so forth?

So we've had them come here and help us with Central Florida and Southwest Regional. Did we pay a fee for that? We did not. that's the point I'm getting that is very valuable time and staff time. And I think that pays for itself with how many times they've come up here, and they're willing to come up here again, which is going to cost a lot of money if we tried to have our staff or hire somebody else outside of the regional council. And this isn't any different than any of the other boards. I know we pay quite a bit probably more with Florida League of Cities. And even when I had asked Florida

So maybe it would be something that we could ask if there's a consensus here to maybe have you come and speak on that to educate all of us.

No, on what you're planning. Oh, you'd rather just do a one-to-one.

So my question then is if we're going to wait on this, are we going to wait on all of the other ones that on the boards that we belong to paying them, which includes Florida League of Cities or any other ones that require an annual payment?

It's not a new expense. It's in our budget. That's the difference. It could be something that could be cut.

That's the difference. That's something. Janine?

Melissa. So when you say use for consultant, Rachel, what are we talking about? Are you talking about you can reach out and they will do the work for us? Or what exactly? Or is it just more of like a conversation? I'm just curious.

And have you had that same result with this now that you're here?

So again, I think that dollar to dollar, this is actually very valuable, which actually saves us a lot of money. And it will also help with the burdensome effect of our staff to actually maybe help things move along a little bit faster. And that's what we keep on talking about is having our policies and our procedures move quicker so that we can get things done. Melissa.

With that said, and with Rachel saying that they're rebuilding, I'm just not comfortable yet that you have everything in place. I think we should wait until after Amendment 3 and cut where we can. That would be my stance.

i think this is really good that you know even talking about what collard county is doing and how it's working on the budget that's a good communication for all of us to be learning and trying to work with and i think that's again where staff talks to staff to say this is what we're doing and this is how we're doing it and then it can come to council so i i again i'm talking about how valuable something is that should always have been in the budget i don't know why you know apparently again yeah people say you know they're off of old time so well it's like this so let's just be negative and th

It shows how good you are with budget and how we're trying to budget things. Melissa, you got something?

We have amazing staff. The staff is what's amazing. I'm going to make a motion for 6B to be tabled and to come back after Amendment 3. Is everybody done discussing it?

Okay, we have a motion and a second to table until after November 3rd. Anybody oppose it? Aye. Aye. Okay, motion passes to table it. Thank you, sir, for coming here. My honor. Okay, next is going to be 6A, letter of commitment for cost share.

Melissa. And how much are we committing to? It says the estimated total project is expected to be $1 million.

But we could be on the hook for at least $500,000 plus. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, again, trying to cost save and everything with Amendment 3. I love the idea of it, and I love the fact that there is a grant available, but I just don't see us putting us on the hook for that much at the moment. That's my opinion.

Yeah, and I understand we're looking at partnering with Advent and maybe others to help with the cost. So we don't know what the cost is going to be yet. And we're not obligated to anything until grants come through and so forth.

And I agree with that. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Rich. Go ahead.

And I agree. You know, this is for us getting the initial step to see if we can get a grant. It's not that we're obligated to this. We're looking at other means of trying to offset the actual costs that it would cost the city. So it's not like it's a commitment that we're doing it. We're just saying that we're committed to looking for the grant.

linear park earlier in like 2014 Melissa okay so if we did approve this today we're not obligating ourselves monetarily yet we're basically allowing you to move forward to see and that probably wouldn't be done you said till next year at this point right

Actually, I just have one more thing to say. OK, go ahead. That's why I was in the queue. No, with it knowing that we're pushing it out that far and we're not obligating at the moment, then I have no problem with that. So if you'd like to.

OK. We have a motion and a second. Anybody oppose this? No? OK, the motion carries. OK, next on the agenda is approval from city council to accept the shortlist ranking for auditing services and move forward with negotiating the payment schedule with the top-ranked firm Ashley Brown and Smith CPAs of Punta Gorda, Florida.

Thank you for doing that. I think it was properly weighted and rated and looks good. I'm ready to approve.

Okay, we have a motion and a second. That was Melissa Lockhart. Anybody oppose this? No, motion carries. Thank you. Thank you. And I do want to say, great job in expediting something to make it work so quickly. That was just awesome. And hopefully every other procedure that we do with all our procurement and everything is going to be running just as smoothly. So thank you so much for doing that.

Yeah, and I was just going to say, it was very fascinating to sit and actually pull the curtain back and see what procurement does. We all think we kind of know, but it's really very intricate. So I would recommend anybody that hasn't take a little tour to procurement and kind of see what they do on a daily basis. And yes, Julie did a fabulous job. So thank you.

I think you're pretty thorough. Thank you.

It sounds like we're really finally moving things forward, and it's out of council's control when it says 18 months to do something. I don't think we can expedite anything any faster, even though we always ask to. So it's not council that's doing it. But thank you. It sounds like we're going to have a lot of things happen all of a sudden, all at once. It's coming. Janine.

Melissa. Thank you for that. Yes, I think that it's strange. It only seems to happen in these meetings. If you go to Board of County Commissioner meetings, none of that happens. None of that happens. And I think it's because the commissioners have rules. They abide by them. I've been to many recently with having to go there for Animal Welfare League. It never happens, but it happens here a lot. And it's disheartening because it doesn't seem as if we are following our rules. County Commissioners read something at the beginning. I would love to share it with you guys. And the rules are followed,

I think if it's pretty simple to do, absolutely. Great. Janie?

Just as we're doing for phosphate. It's ceremonial. It's making a point. It means essentially nothing. But I did want to put that. I'd be happy to write it up if you want me to. Whatever you want.

OK. Just for agenda planning purposes. No problem. Thank you. Thank you. And if you want help with writing it, let me know.

You'd probably be really good at that. OK. Greg.

Yes, I wanted to ask about getting the revert or parcel situation on an upcoming agenda as soon as possible.

It's $400 besides the deposit. But then, I'm sorry, you want to answer that?

And it is true what Dr. Reichardt is saying is that there's a lot of organizations out there too good for the community and who would love to have that waived. But then where's that fine line? I mean, you know, do you charge people in advance for something so that you don't see that there's an admin fee? Or do you do things and try to get sponsors and then still have an admin fee? So it's looking at all the ways around. And I love the Rotary. I'm part of the Rotary. But we really have to be careful. That's a... slippery slope, and we're veterans, we love the veteran stuff, but I think we've go

Anything else? Steve, you wanted to pipe in?

Thank you for that. I originally had nothing to say. It is a little frustrating when we do have an outburst in here. And I appreciate it because we are doing a fine line with freedom of speech and what they have. And that's why I look to attorney Leskovich to decide whether somebody is out of line or not. You know, when you try to calm people down who are saying things, I think that the reason why we're a little bit different is because we say anybody can say anything. And I think the County commissioners make you fill something out and you can only talk on that topic. I think we've already di

OK. So just the first point of clarification, the Board of County Commissioners allows, at the beginning of the meetings, they allow agenda items only. At the end of the meetings, they allow public comments. So that's the only difference that we have. The difference of a commissioner meeting is they set rules that you are only supposed to do A, B, and C. So they set a tone, and that's the tone that's followed. Let's talk about TikTok. Listen, we're all adults. We're all talking about freedom of speech. Here we go. Let's go down that road. However, the TikTok that I made said nothing about stab

i'm glad that you clarified that because what i read it said in a meeting and it's talked about reminding yourself not to stab somebody and that's what i saw and if somebody else made it you know and that's our problem today is people are making memes that maybe you didn't do and somebody else did and i find that even with all of us it happens to all of us quite frequently and maybe this is a time we should start protecting each other to say That's false information and maybe contacting our city attorney or city manager and saying, please let this person know that this is out there and it's un

So with the protecting, are we going back to what our normal rules are? Is that you don't, what was the decorum we had up here that you criticize ideas and not people? Because that is certainly not the path we've been going down. So what exactly is our rule so we all have an idea of what we can expect?

So actually the decorum is for how we behave. That's what it's about is how we behave with each other. The public has the right to say freedom of speech. So it is different. It's how we treat each other here.

No, it's not just us. Especially in the commissioner meetings, they expect the audience to behave in a reasonable manner. And if they get out of line, they'll be dismissed. So it pertains to both ways.

So, for the record, I want to be clear. We are not going to run our council meetings like the county commissioners, where if somebody starts addressing a certain person, attacking a certain person, we will do nothing of that. Is that what I'm understanding? Because that doesn't happen at the Board of County Commissioners.

freedom of speech as long as they're not threatening you.

I was personally attacked this morning. And I didn't object. I didn't say a word. I think we all have. No, no. Not like that. Not in this council chamber.

Again, just going by Board of County Commissioners. He says, you know, at the beginning he reads a speech. You are to address, you know, not one single question. Commissioner, I think they said, I don't know. There's a speech that is written. If, you know, they don't allow clapping in their audience, they don't allow, you know, if somebody starts, you know, kind of verbally going at somebody, they gavel. They don't allow that. So are you saying that that is wrong, is what they're doing, or is that just what they've set and we're setting a different standard?

And the thing that I think really was concerning to me is when we had our civility, we have people here, like we talk about things here, people have the right here. Well, social media, some of us don't do social media for obvious reasons. But it's funny that they have the standard of you can't do these bad things to me here, but you can go ahead and do these things out on social media. So it's almost a double standard. I think that for us to have an open area, and especially if this is concerning council, I think that people should have the right, because they might come up here not with contr

And nobody's defending or even saying that there shouldn't be. Correct. In fact, that even came to us about do we want to limit it to agenda items. We all said no, absolutely. You all said no. The difference is when you're in this environment, this is a limited free speech environment, you also do not want to have the onus that people don't want to start coming to council meetings because they're intimidated. You don't want to limit people. So now you're discriminating against people that might want to come here, but they feel like it's a little bit of a circus, and I don't want to be here, so

And I'm afraid that with what Janine had said, it's because there's a little bit more interaction on social media that might not be what everybody wants to say, freedom of speech. And I think that's what causes these people to come here and react to it. And I think that's the huge difference. Well, if Council is doing something as their freedom of speech, then I believe that the residents, if they're offended by it, should have the freedom of speech to come and say that they were offended by it. That's just mine. Okay, so let's go on to public input. Please state your name for the record. And

Colvin should contact Missy. OK, thank you.

Yes, sir. You've got three minutes. Thank you.

Thank you, Gary. Yeah, not now in June. It's a little bit warmer.