County Board - Regular Meeting

8:46 – 10:01•SCSusan Cunningham

Yeah, I appreciate your words. And I know others will have lots to share as well. It truly, truly is a privilege to have known Dr. Taylor, to be cared for by Dr. Taylor, to be challenged by Dr. Taylor. And when I think of him, he's in a category of the top 10 mentors and just spiritual guidance folks in my life. I literally feel like his hand is on my head or on my shoulder or sometimes maybe holding back as needed. And I'm deeply, deeply appreciative of that. I will hold him as a mentor, both kind of on the practical and the spiritual side, as an incredible teacher in every word he uttered, i

10:05 – 13:11•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Very appropriate recognition of Dr. Taylor. There is one thing that sticks with me. He, like to all of us, he has been, of course, a mentor. He is Bedrock Arlington in all dimensions you can imagine and probably also in dimensions we have yet to discover. And I'm saying that because he was very adamant about the quality of what a challenge is. He was always saying, and he's quoted actually in his obituary with Arlington Public Library, he used to say that challenges The moment that you're striving and struggling and working for something, you cannot possibly appreciate ho

13:13 – 16:18•MCMaureen Coffey

Yeah, thank you. I'm a little bit newer to the scene than some of my colleagues are and I think what's amazing about Dr. Taylor is you really don't get far being involved in the Arlington community without knowing a handful of folks that come up again and again and again. And Dr. Taylor has been one of those folks, not because he viewed himself as central or key or a gatekeeper to being involved or part of this civic world, but because he truly knew more than almost anyone about this community, about the history of it, the meaning of it, where we've come from, what it meant to come from where

16:19 – 19:44•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Thank you, Vice Chair Coffey. Mr. Spain. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to my colleagues and for taking a moment to recognize at the time it is passing and who was a living legend in Arlington. Dr. Alfred Taylor, Jr. I came to know Dr. Taylor when my family and I moved here from Brussels back in 2009. And as I got involved in the local branch of the NAACP, come to find out there was a past president of the local branch by the name of Dr. Alfred Taylor. But even outside of all of that, you have to know his history, his past. He was also a son of Mount Zion AME Baptist Church in Arlin

21:57 – 24:51•MCMaureen Coffey

Thank you. Senator Howell and I have the great fortune of sharing an alma mater. We both went to Oberlin College in Northeast Ohio, which I did not know her very well by the time I was out of college. And here in Arlington, she only represented two precincts of Arlington and shortly thereafter her district was redrawn to not include any of Arlington. But I've always felt a deep kinship because Oberlin College represents so much of who I am as a person and how it shaped her, how it shaped me. Oberlin's one of the first schools that co-educated men and women as well as one of the first private w

24:53 – 25:21•SCSusan Cunningham

I will be very brief because you all touched on so much. But I would just say one of her lasting and last contributions to all of us was to loosen the rules around absentee voting. And so I suspect she would want me to remind you that voting is open on this floor. And you can early vote. And you should encourage everyone to exercise their right to vote in Virginia and everywhere else.

25:27 – 27:09•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. I had the opportunity to engage with Senator Howell just briefly in public gatherings, and her background, her experience speaks volumes. One thing that folks don't maybe say a lot about, as many do know, that she was also a school teacher, public school teacher. And to think about what our school teachers today are going through, and what she did, Senator Howell, that is, that service, again, that on top of, honestly, 32 years of public service as a legislator. I only did 26 years in the Marine Corps, but 32 years. I think... giving that much of your life, your tim

27:12 – 29:33•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I fully align with the comments of my colleagues. There is one thing that Sarah Howell, because honestly, I had a number of conversations with her on the hot topic that will be hot topic again of taxation in Virginia. And she was kind of more conservative than I would be. However, this gave us the opportunity to compare compare trajectories in public service. I remember her telling me that she started as a PTA president. in the 80s in Reston as an association, kind of a civic association president. So she is not only a part of Northern Virginia's enormous contribution and

30:37 – 31:00•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So yet again, we have lost a gentle giant living legend in Arlington, Ms. Donnie Lee Hill, member of Mount Olive Baptist Church on Johnson Hill. How many of you know what Johnson Hill is? Raise your hand. Arlington View, raise your hand.

31:05 – 31:39•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

As the chair denoted, many contributions to our community, more especially Green Valley, and I know we wish we can honor all the giants here on the dais that lose their life in memoriam, but Ms. Hill, in particular, once again, being a teacher in that service for 20 some odd years, over two decades to our community, is very noteworthy, so she's Definitely missed, we thank her and God bless not only her family, but thank them for allowing her to serve Arlington.

32:03 – 34:12•SCSusan Cunningham

Great. Well, I think all of our honorees would are looking down and are thrilled to see our young people stepping up and building a better world for all of us. We are delighted to have the winners of the county's first climate action plan youth art contest and their families here with us today. And you guys have done a terrific job sitting through the first bit of our meeting. You guys rock. Many of you know, but some may not, that the Climate Action Art Contest invited all Arlington students in grades K through 12 to imagine a more sustainable future and share what climate action means to the

40:58 – 41:32•SCSusan Cunningham

Great. Well, if you will bear with us, we'd love to present your certificates directly to you if you're up for it, or you can send your parent if you prefer. Your parent can come, too. So I will meet you down here, and we are delighted to share your certificate. I think there'll be some additional little goodies and pins later that Miss Fioretti will help you with. but you all are truly amazing and we are so, so grateful for your talents and for your commitment to our community and to our future. So meet me up here and we'll take a quick picture.

51:12 – 52:29•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll have the unique opportunity to present a certificate of appreciation from Arlington County Board to Eliza Ortiz. with gratitude and for recognition of her years of service to Arlington County as a member of the Transportation Commission from 2010 to 2016, and the Neighborhood Complete Streets Committee from 2014 to 2026, where she served as chair from 2017 to 2025. And this certificate of appreciation signed by the chair on this date, I am the liaison from the County Board to this commission, of course had a unique opportunity to spend some time with Ms. Ortiz since

57:27 – 59:30•MCMaureen Coffey

All right. That's as high as it goes. September is National Preparedness Month. We're grateful to be joined here by our Department of Public Safety Communications and Emergency Management. I will say that emergency planning is an area that I as a board member was a lot less familiar with before I got into this position but is truly integral to every single part of what your local government does. Emergencies happen with little or no warning and being prepared beforehand makes a real difference for individuals, families, and entire neighborhoods. National Preparedness Month is a reminder that p

1:00:17•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Nobody should forget to sign up for Arlington Alerts, okay?

1:00:20 – 1:05:11•MCMaureen Coffey

Yes. Very important. OK, next proclamation. We've got a lot of these today. Coming up on October 8 is Children's Environmental Health Day. Every child deserves clean air to breathe, clean water to drink, safe food, healthy places to live, learn, and play. Yet children are especially vulnerable to environmental hazards. And many of those risks are found in everyday environments where children are spending their time. Raising awareness of those risks and taking practical steps to reduce them is an important part of protecting children's health and development. Children's Environmental Health Day

1:05:58 – 1:07:35•SCSusan Cunningham

Next up, we have Urban Agriculture Month, which is always fun. So I will share a little bit, and then President Linda Ramirez-Blust, Renee Bouchard, Kelly Andre, Lynn Ray, and Becky Halp, or whoever else is here, should come on up as I read it. Urban agriculture connects our people to our community. It expands access to fresh produce, supports environmental sustainability, and strengthens our local food system and emergency resilience. Arlington's 445 community garden plots, which I'll remind you, Mr. Manager, still not enough. We have a huge wait list, but it's a great progress. And our 11 fa

1:08:23 – 1:11:35•SCSusan Cunningham

OK, next up we have Disability Voting Rights Week. And I think we have Adam Rizzoli from Rev Up Virginia here. More than 40 million Americans with disabilities are eligible voters. Disability Voting Rights Week reminds us that meaningful civic participation is crucial for having their voices heard. We observe this year from September 14th through the 18th, Disability Voting Rights Week is a non-progressive national effort led by the American Association of People with Disabilities and REV UP, which stands for Register, Educate, Vote, and Use Your Power. It brings disability advocates and commu

1:12:19 – 1:19:49•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

We're almost home. Good evening, everyone. Good afternoon. It gives me great honor and pleasure to be here for you today to present at least three proclamations at this time. The first one for the Ivey Foundation of Northern Virginia and your 25th anniversary. For 25 years, the Ivey Foundation of Northern Virginia has invested in people and communities through education, service, leadership, development, and philanthropy. Founded in 2001 as the charitable arm of Zeta Chi Omega chapter of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated. I don't hear anything. The foundation has built its work around mi

1:21:02 – 1:24:33•TKTakis P. Karantonis

So last two proclamations, but not least important causes that we recognize today. This one is very close to my heart. It is honoring National Sickle Cell Awareness Month. For those who don't know that sickle cell is a disease that stems from a disorder which is hereditary. Our red blood cells are formed in the form of a disc, and they are responsible for carrying oxygen in our arteries and veins. And their form, which scientifically is called the biconcave disc, is such that they can slip easily and carry as much oxygen to our vital organs, to our head, to our brain, and to our organs. If thi

1:25:15 – 1:30:44•TKTakis P. Karantonis

And now on to the last proclamation for today, which is a particular honor, especially for somebody who is an immigrant in this country. It is a proclamation on the occasion of Constitution Week. For those of us who weren't, who didn't have the the honor and the privilege to be born under the jurisdiction of the Constitution of our country. The Constitution really, the Bill of Rights and all the amendments, really constitutes the famous, if you read the famous poem under the Statue of Liberty, The New Colossus, it's literally the lamp beside the golden door. This is the document that has creat

1:31:57•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Chair, I think this concludes the reading of proclamations.

1:43:48•SCSusan Cunningham

It's in fact vestigial, but I'm very excited for the work that the team is doing here and a big thanks to our liaisons for taking on this one.

1:44:00 – 1:45:03•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, it needs to be said, in my opinion, that both the County Manager's Office, our CBHD housing has really timely detected the challenge. has timely discussed options with the county board, but also with members of the community already and with the significant decision makers and stakeholders. So this needs to be recognized because this is really well organized and eventually effective work. I want to just say that right now, there are no affordable units at risk right now. So we are starting now a process for decisions that will be effective in about three yea

1:45:30•TKTakis P. Karantonis

All right, thank you. So no bad surprises for anybody. No. Calm facing a challenge that we will face many times in Arlington. So thank you for this work.

1:45:43 – 1:48:03•MCMaureen Coffey

Yeah, I'm very appreciative of the staff. I think that this is a massive amount of work for us to take on, but it is so important. And to be so proactive about it, I think is also a huge opportunity. One of the challenges around any land use is all of the competing desires, hopes, and dreams that we all have. And I think it's really important to say to the community out loud that our real hope is to put commitments to affordable housing and the historic preservation at the top of the list in this process. It doesn't mean that there will not be other hopes, dreams, and desires that come out of

1:48:04 – 1:49:15•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

I'm very aware of what's going on in and around this neighborhood. And the county manager talked a little bit earlier about letter of intent, I think, or something. You have agreement through 2030. Well, 2030 is right around the corner, y'all. And as I applaud our efforts to get in front of this, to what the Vice Chair just stated between in all of that, what we're actually talking about is potentially some of our most vulnerable residents in Arlington and how they're gonna be affected. So again, we have two outstanding liaisons assigned to this and I'm very appreciative of staff getting us th

2:34:59 – 2:36:12•SCSusan Cunningham

So one question I had, well, first of all, huge, huge thank you. That was not just a lot of slides and a lot of information, but an enormous amount of pre-work to help ground the whole community in an understanding of how we've balanced these decisions over time and how conditions are shifting a little bit, and so we keep rebalancing. So thank you for that. I also want to elevate the bearing of the lead way back at the beginning, which is we have had no reported misuse at all, which is tremendous. So thank you to all of you and to all of our previous boards and to each and every one of our sta

2:38:17 – 2:40:59•TKTakis P. Karantonis

This is a very big topic. Thank you for the thorough expose. I cannot stress enough that if there is one thing that we have all, you know, collectively learned here is that transparency helps people to understand what has happened the last few years. You mentioned that we have a license plate reader since 2008. I remember when the first license plate reader technology was launched, which was after the London attacks in 2005, a huge terrorist event. you know, triggered the implementation of a technology like that abroad and then it was brought here for similar reasons. But there was back then s

2:41:05•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Yeah, so is that the only system or do we have another one that's permanently recorded?

2:41:41 – 2:42:18•TKTakis P. Karantonis

But are the action license plate readers permanently on? Or are they on a police cruiser, for example? It's on a police cruiser. So that's a random. I see what you're saying. That's a purpose-driven random recording. It's not a permanently indiscriminate recording. What I'm after is to say FLOC was the one system that was permanently indiscriminately recording. It was privately owned, nationally networked, and full of backdoors. And this is why we didn't want to continue the work with them. Is that correct? Yeah, if we could clarify.

2:42:45 – 2:43:11•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Yeah, so Mr. Chair, just to systematize that, there are systems that are permanently, indiscriminately recording. They are very, they're high, I mean, they are really five alarms for me. There are systems that are purpose recording, and it's random, and it's on certain, you know, very identifiable means, and there are event-triggered systems like red, red. Photo, red, photo, something happens. Yeah.

2:43:31 – 2:43:48•SCSusan Cunningham

Could I ask a clarifying question on Mr. Carantona's? Sure. I think there was an allegation there of backdoor access or there was a little bit of commentary there that I just want to make sure if we need to clarify that. I think much of that we had... You mean the national concern versus...

2:45:45 – 2:46:07•MCMaureen Coffey

I'll start back with the private cameras and feel free to phone a friend or the attorney if necessary. Are the private cameras on private property subject to the limitations imposed by the Commonwealth in this most recent General Assembly session? No. Okay.

2:46:19 – 2:46:42•MCMaureen Coffey

How we use it is separate. What I'm saying is that the private entities can choose to use their cameras however they want regardless, like what the Commonwealth did was a restriction upon us, other local government and law enforcement agencies, not upon anyone with this type of technology.

2:47:12 – 2:48:28•MCMaureen Coffey

Okay, thank you. Kind of backing out from the LPR conversation, and this may be a Ms. Hartel question, because I think a lot of the anxiety I feel and I hear is around the data systems themselves, the storage, the containment, what other systems they touch and how they interact, and how can we know? And I think... I have grown up through, in elementary school, floppy disks. And now we're here today. And so I have experienced almost all iterations of what data meant. And it used to be you could own and contain data in a physical sense. And you knew where it was. You knew where it went. Now in t

2:49:46 – 2:50:22•MCMaureen Coffey

Great. And so if we were to have concern around is someone external accessing our data, would there be the ability to look at metadata? Is there something that is still tangible attached to the data that would be able to show us or tell us if we did need to go check? Or is it I think a lot of us are worried about kind of like almost like the ghost effect of could someone get in and get out without us having any clue that it had happened. So I think that's what I'm trying to get at.

2:50:38 – 2:51:20•MCMaureen Coffey

Yeah, I think that's one thing I will express interest in, at least for myself, is I think from what I can tell, a lot of work has been done on our policies and on writing the words down in contracts and in procurement and saying it. And I think the next critical phase to me is how can we prove somehow that writing that all down matters and that it's being adhered to. And I think that that is one space where I may not be informed enough to know what that even looks like. But directionally, I think that's one thing that's really important to me.

2:52:13 – 2:53:40•MCMaureen Coffey

Yeah, go ahead. You named immigration as one particular element, but I think what it is really highlighting to be honest, is a concern around the institutions and the trust and the parameters that I think we've previously been able to believe have our best interests at heart, are following applicable laws and policies. And we have seen over the last you know, to most charitably, but really 10 plus years, the deterioration of our ability to believe that the people who are making those laws are following those laws. And so that's not you know, that's that is a widespread deterioration of norms i

2:53:43 – 2:56:51•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Well, thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Doctor, for your very thorough, I may say, presentation. I will first say that I believe we could spend a full day talking about this subject. Make no mistake about it. And so we have a short moment in time to capture some thoughts that we may have, and let's try to run with that. This is going to require a level of follow-up, not just this moment, for a host of reasons. One, you know, as a person, and I don't wanna go into speaking in the platitudes, but I'm gonna set the stage almost to what the Vice Chair just, you know, we find ourselves in this p

2:57:20 – 2:58:23•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Yep. So maybe we can work on that. And I'll just, I know we have a second round, probably Mr. Chair, but I will also say that to what Mr. Karantonis was saying, let's not be too naive generally. So whether federal government tapping into your phone, this is not conspiracy theory at all, because guess what? I'm one of the people that got a letter from the DOJ because I called someone. Well, people are listening. So whether you're talking about election security or whether you're talking about data being protected in places like Equifax and your credit reports, which lost all our data a few year

2:58:27•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

If data is lost from a vendor, data that is captured as it relates to recording LRPs, even though we only keep it for a brief period of time.

2:58:39 – 2:59:18•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Yeah. I'll have some additional questions, but Mr. Chair and colleagues, I think because we have a long day ahead of us, this may be some additional conversations and we may want to hear more from community stakeholders. I applaud the COB, the ITEC commission, the team and the police department and everyone. But we got to figure out from a framework to this policy in general, we're going to have to earn trust and confidence in our community with these platforms, because right now I don't think we have it. So there's work to be done.

3:02:12 – 3:03:27•SCSusan Cunningham

yeah I think I would just add that we are we will continue to be in a very fluid time and I think what is reassuring about the work we just went through and all the many many many hours of conversations we've had as well is that in the conditions that have existed we have made really good decisions about guardrails about balancing risk and reward and we will always have to keep doing that and in this particular federal administration the the conditions may change quickly more quickly than in in other times and so I would just keep that as the frame I think your intent I understand and I think

3:03:28 – 3:06:15•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Thank you mr Karen tonis thank you mr chair let me first say that I I fully agree with you that we as a board we probably I wouldn't say underestimated but did we didn't estimate correctly the implications of you know stacking new technologies as we go And we didn't calibrate properly a public consultation on this. And so this mistake we are not going to repeat. The second thing, though, is what we need to discuss as a community is what is privacy, what are private data, how should publicly collected data sets be managed, guarded, stewarded and audited, which we do already in a vast, in a very

3:06:17 – 3:08:11•MCMaureen Coffey

Thanks, and I will primarily associate myself with all the comments before, but really reiterate, there is no secret plan up here. We knew we had one decision we were certain about, and that was ending the Flock contract. There was no reason for us to wait. to proceed or announce with that decision until we had a full Arlington County level engagement plan about all steps that will come next and after this. Anyone who's been involved in any kind of Arlington County process knows that the plan for the plan can take weeks or months. And so, you know, I know there is a desire from so many of our

3:08:13 – 3:09:02•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Yes, Mr. Chair, and I would hope that we, at some point in time in the near future, will figure out what that venue will be. But I do want to kind of close with a question here. Actually, it's going to be two questions. Board Member Cunningham, you mentioned something about the flock technology, we lost this technology. I guess my question, Dr. Miller, I mean, with this technology going away, what capability, what did we lose? Because we were doing something prior to January, 2025. What capability per se, as far as policing and law enforcement, did we lose by taking away flock?

3:12:07 – 3:13:38•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Yes. Thank you, Chief. And I believe there's an expectation that your response and how it's conveyed, the technology, the argument will be, yes, we should keep it. because it helps solve crimes, it helps find missing persons, it helps find cars. I think you talked Dr. Miller a little bit earlier about some scenarios, some examples of how it's benefited. I think for me, showcasing that over the past several years, consolidating that so I can really digest it will be beneficial. And then lastly, I think what I would need is to answer some of the questions that have come to me about JD, how much

3:16:31•MCMaureen Coffey

It's just the staff. I mean... Oh, there are people here that we were going to have for closed.

3:37:09•MCMaureen Coffey

You're going to have to go for it this time.

3:51:43 – 3:53:26•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And as I was writing down my remarks here, I'm trying to come from a place of authenticity and being as genuine as I can. Because these type of moments are like once in a generation. I think all of us here on the county board, somewhere along the line before we arrived here, made promises to folks in our community that we were going to be champions of affordable housing. You know, there's a poem that talks about the dash It's not so much about when you came into this world or come into this world, or when you leave those two dates, it's about what happens in the middle th

3:53:29 – 3:55:02•MCMaureen Coffey

I am just so overcome with gratitude for what you all are doing to live, to have your career so dedicated to serving others and really thinking about the future and thinking forward and to live that into your retirement as well. I think this is the challenge of our time. And we haven't solved it yet. I think Arlington is probably doing better than most, but there's so much work going forward and there's so many people choosing not to think about the hard reality of where we head as a community. And I think senior housing is one of the hardest realities that we have. And so just so much gratitu

3:55:08 – 3:57:22•SCSusan Cunningham

I will just say it's been about a decade since I first kind of stumbled into this building to meet with Mary Hines about a number of things. And I don't know if it was the first conversation, but it was surely not long after that I was working on housing issues with our church and trying to figure out how to make a difference and how to bring the wealth of our community forward. And Mary heinz was talking about 10 club or various other things of for those of us who can let's just do it let's just invest and little did I know you guys were already a third of the way into the retirement project

3:57:26 – 4:01:01•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So Mel and Ken, I actually knew for your intentions, right? We had a conversation. And since then, I mean, the thing that didn't leave me and I always carried in the back of my head is what dimension, moral dimension of public service is necessary to understand in order to describe what you're doing. And I'm telling you, it's not about the dollars or the technicalities of the endowment, et cetera. It's about the fact that public servants in this organization here have been so invested in the mission of serving the people of Arlington that literally, literally gave it all.

4:06:27•SCSusan Cunningham

Well, I'm not getting the podium in it. All right. One, two, three.

4:07:48•TKTakis P. Karantonis

I know, I was kind of like, we didn't. That's a lot for a daughter.

4:35:18 – 4:35:35•MCMaureen Coffey

Okay. Thank you. And so I guess a very, very preliminary question. At what point on the timeline here was it communicated to big Tony's that they needed to cease the live entertainment activities until they received a permit?

4:36:06 – 4:36:19•MCMaureen Coffey

Got it. Okay. And the first time, as far as our inspections go, that we did not see live entertainment activities after that warning was in September, nine months later.

4:36:23•MCMaureen Coffey

OK, thank you. Are there any other establishments in Clarendon operating live entertainment without a use permit that we are aware of?

4:36:40 – 4:36:52•MCMaureen Coffey

Great. Thank you. And for the applicants, you know, I am aware that you all own multiple restaurants within Arlington. How many use permits for live entertainment does the Cordero Group have?

4:36:57•MCMaureen Coffey

So you are familiar with the process for live entertainment use permits for your other restaurants?

4:38:58 – 4:40:03•MCMaureen Coffey

Okay. So I think one thing I would highlight is that it is not our responsibility to figure out if everyone is doing live entertainment and ask them to get permits, it is incumbent upon the proprietors to know what the laws of Arlington County are and to comply with them, right? And so at the point where a complaint was submitted by Arlington County Police, that's why in January zoning began that process of making sure you all were aware that you were not in compliance with a warning to begin. And then I guess one of my questions is, it sounds like you were aware that you needed the permit and

4:46:45 – 4:48:43•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and Madam Vice Chair. And so I'll have a few questions. You know, Mr. Tony, and you should first know that I know, at least for myself, all of us here, we're big time supporters of our local businesses, right? We want all our businesses to thrive. but I often say to a lot of people there's a wrong way to do the right thing. Now you've referenced Cedric a couple times in your conversation. You've also referenced that you are a member of the chamber. You've also referenced that you're connected to a whole lot of entities within Clarendon. What is becoming hard for me and a b

4:48:52 – 4:49:18•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Yeah, we can't play hot potato. It lands with you, right? Yeah. So we heard a little earlier about... live entertainment continuing after you were specifically directed by the county staff that a use permit was required. Just once again, tell me again why you did that after staff said you have to get a permit. Why did you go forward?

4:50:25 – 4:51:07•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

I think some of my colleagues will have some questions, but I'll just leave you with this. Look, I've frequented the area. I know my kids who are and some of their friends have been to your place. Many folks that I know have been to these establishments. But if we don't follow our rules, then what good is it to have them? Right? I would just stretch it. And I think, quite honestly, I just want to say this again, that I want to believe that our staff is here to support every business in Arlington who extends themselves when they need that help. We know that. I've only been here a year and nine months, but I know our staff will turn over backwards to help you. Any other business in Arlington, okay?

4:51:15 – 4:51:59•TKTakis P. Karantonis

So I will. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will try to be brief. I need to understand a few things. And that's for staff first. So an application for a use permit was submitted at the beginning of March and was paid at the beginning of April. So what happens between, let's say, April, 9th of April and July that we have a citation by the police, a photo by the police? So there are three months. Is it normal that it takes like three months to process a use permit like that?

4:52:35 – 4:54:25•TKTakis P. Karantonis

So let's say by the moment that Mr. Cordero's business was cited, the application was now advanced and was preparing to be presented to us for approval, right? That is correct. So let me make a speculative thing. Mr. Cordero, I'm not here to lecture you about how to run your business. But what I understand is that you wouldn't be the first one who sees a situation in the market, wants to be nimble and react and do something, and then it takes us like three months at the very least to provide you with what you need. It's of course kind of awkward because you cannot go back to us and say, hey gu

4:54:47 – 4:55:12•TKTakis P. Karantonis

But normally, how do we handle that? Because, you know, you probably see that the business is really eager to get their, you know, application approved. Do we warn them? Do we give them any, do we hold any hands here to help them endure the time?

4:55:30 – 4:56:04•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Just to editorialize a little bit on that, this is exactly why we wanted a more nimble and agile handling of that. And that's the reason. I mean, here it's an obvious problem that you have somebody who is after all, not organically, but after all, trying to do the right thing, but then it takes too long and then they say, okay, let's roll with what we have and basically roll the dice and then it goes wrong. So that's how I interpret that. So thank you.

4:59:05 – 4:59:30•TKTakis P. Karantonis

I wanted to ask if there is a motion on the table, because if there isn't, I wanted to make a motion myself, but not the motion to deny, rather a motion to approve with conditions, similar to the next item that we say that we will approve, but we will check. on compliance in a reasonable number of months.

4:59:50•MCMaureen Coffey

I would also suggest that that gets run by our attorney and staff.

5:00:33 – 5:00:54•MCMaureen Coffey

Yeah, and I'd like to speak to my motion as well. Yeah. Yeah, just sometimes we get so caught up, we move on quickly. Yes. move that the County Board deny the use permit for live entertainment at Big Tony's a second moved in second s if you want to speak to the motion and and

5:01:00 – 5:03:46•MCMaureen Coffey

Perhaps buy him some time. So I have been really engaged in the conversation around live entertainment in Clarendon. I've been a resident of Clarendon for the last five years. I've actually been to all of the Credero Group restaurants. And I think one of the greatest challenges I have seen from Clarendon establishments is a feeling that we are never actually going to enforce our rules. And that if people just keep pressing, they can do kind of whatever they want, because the board is never actually going to deny their permits, because it is the business case that you've laid out. And I don't d

5:03:49 – 5:05:21•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Yeah, I'll speak to my second and echo quite honestly, look, a lot of what our Vice Chair stated, I am, I'm all in for business. I mean, I'm the liaison from this county board to Arlington Economic Development. Businesses are what makes this community as vibrant as it is today. And who better to talk to than what goes on there? Our vice chair is probably the only member of this board who's lived there, right? And see it every day. But I often said, and I said it earlier today, You know, there's a wrong way to do the right thing. And we must be disciplined as a board and leaders to the process.

5:05:24 – 5:08:24•TKTakis P. Karantonis

So colleagues, I have zero objections to the tone and intention of the motion. It is very clear that Big Tonists knew better and didn't follow the rules. And I fully agree with what I share, Kofi, that rules are there for a reason. And the biggest reason is that everybody else is following the rules, by the way. It's just a matter of fairness. What I'm trying to figure out here is that it is a lengthy process. intuitively a business-friendly process. If we want to be business-friendly, we have to be a little bit more nimble in this. That doesn't give anybody a free check to do whatever they wa

5:08:28•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

I'll second it for the purpose of, I mean, we need to get it up. Point of order, I don't believe a motion has been made.

5:08:42 – 5:08:59•TKTakis P. Karantonis

I will formally make the motion, Mr. Kushner. I move that the County Board approves the proposed use permit for life entertainment at Big Tonus, subject to the conditions that need to be displayed on the screen with the County Board review in eight months, that is May 2027.

5:09:25 – 5:09:48•MCMaureen Coffey

So my understanding is that these are the use permit conditions that would have been part of the board report should the staff recommendation have been an approval originally. I do not believe that they go beyond what otherwise would typically be included in a standard live entertainment use permit.

5:12:43 – 5:13:08•SCSusan Cunningham

Could I just go back and ask a couple questions? When you first had these discussions in January, were you aware of the time period? Did you guys talk about, hey, this will probably be before the board in X date? Were you aware of it being three months or one month or 25 months? Was that discussion part of the conversation?

5:13:13•SCSusan Cunningham

OK. And staff, would that have been something you would typically share expectations around?

5:13:46 – 5:14:00•SCSusan Cunningham

Okay, but your recollection is you did talk about it in April. I guess that would be your late March that it would be a three-month process, but that's not your recollection.

5:14:32 – 5:14:48•SCSusan Cunningham

So this is where my disconnect is coming from. And I know there's sort of three different folks on their side, and some emails may not have been opened. But can you clarify? Because I think we do endeavor to be clear about what the timeline is going to be.

5:16:54•SCSusan Cunningham

Is there anything you wanted to clarify?

5:17:37 – 5:17:48•SCSusan Cunningham

And so it sounds like you were, was there a date before the April 16th that they were trying to meet originally for, I guess, the April board meeting?

5:18:01•SCSusan Cunningham

But then there was a violation, although the violation wasn't.

5:19:10 – 5:19:21•SCSusan Cunningham

All right, who's, go ahead. So then can I ask just one last set of dates? When was the application submitted? When was it invoiced? And when was the invoice paid?

5:20:08•SCSusan Cunningham

And when was it invoiced to them? Is it automatic when you submit?

5:20:37•SCSusan Cunningham

And when did they submit the application?

5:20:43 – 5:20:55•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Mrs. Schreiber, it says here in the board report that applicant paid use permit application invoice and review of the use permit request was commenced on the 9th of April.

5:20:59•TKTakis P. Karantonis

I don't know, I'm reading what the board report says. So this is why we're a little conflicted here.

5:21:06 – 5:21:30•SCSusan Cunningham

Yeah, so I think there's a lot of layers here and unfortunately the non-compliance is making it harder to see through some of the layers but the, It sounds to me from those dates that there was no way they were gonna make the June or July meeting, because if technically they needed to be in by the 16th, but we didn't invoice them until the 17th. No, no, no.

5:21:56•SCSusan Cunningham

And do we know was it just one signature that was missing? How many bounces did it take to get there?

5:22:03 – 5:23:30•SCSusan Cunningham

We're probably not going to solve it right now, but I think back to Mr. Karantonis' point in general, at the macro level, I'm not sure that's going to happen here, but we do need to figure out how to have from the time you press submit to the time you pay be as tight as possible and then to have a potentially have a faster review or a very temporary review for new businesses, because three months in a restaurant business is a very, very long time. And even to hit that three months, you'd have to be it's really going to be somewhere between four and six months by the time you get stuff together

5:23:32 – 5:25:07•MCMaureen Coffey

So I just want to highlight, because I know we've been briefed as a board about the challenges of kind of the use permit governing principle here, right? There is no version of a use permit that can be approved without coming to the board for initial approval. And that is part of the broader research and looking into other types of ways to govern live entertainment and nightlife. And that is the long process upon which our two errands are engaged together. I think one thing I will also highlight is we've had other establishments who have had time pressure, who have come to staff and to the boa

5:25:59•MCMaureen Coffey

But that officer's... ACPD is not zoning.

5:27:00•MCMaureen Coffey

I hear your passion, but again, I just have to go back to, you knew you weren't supposed to be doing it.

5:28:02 – 5:28:26•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

It's not a, I just want to ask staff. So I heard this noise. So if the applicant was fully compliant today, Would staff otherwise support the proposed live entertainment use?

5:28:34 – 5:29:25•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

And the issue, right, thank you. And the issue to the applicant, again, is that you haven't complied with our ordinance, our laws here that we have. Totally. Right? I mean, I hear you. And I think you've also heard sentiment from my colleagues here that we understand that there's more work to be done to speed up this timeline from A to Z so we don't have all this, what you may have felt, this discombobulated. I mean, we feel like we understand. And you're talking about families and children. I mean, it pulls on all of our heartstrings. We get it. But as a governing body, we have to remain stea

5:29:27 – 5:29:48•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

Generally, most people are following the laws and they understand the process. So look, I'm not going to be able to, Mr. Karantonis, I hear you. I get the sentiment, you know, you did some time as a director down on the Columbia Pike doing Zipro. I know you get it, but I'm not gonna be able to fully support your motion.

5:33:02 – 5:33:20•SCSusan Cunningham

I just, I'm not sure how to do this except just discuss it, so feel free to rein me in as needed, but since the board can bring this back on our own motion, is there any chance of agreement of how quickly? There's no chance of an agreement.

5:40:13•MCMaureen Coffey

This is just how he likes to spend a Tuesday morning.

5:49:06 – 5:49:56•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm more on the side of giving the benefit of doubt here. I would be okay with a quantity of three violations. It's very all-encompassing, and, you know, a quarter or three violations doesn't strike me as unreasonable. But, Mr. Brodsky, I have a lot of respect for your comments, especially because you live next door. At this point, I am rather in the side of reasonable doubt. I want to ask something else about the extension of the opening hours. The rationale here is you have a harmonization of what the closing time for dancing and entertainment will be. So is that correc

5:50:33•TKTakis P. Karantonis

And avoid the mass migration from one bar to the next. Correct. Okay, good. I'm fine with both. Thank you, sir.

5:50:46 – 5:51:38•SCSusan Cunningham

Okay, just to follow up on the hours consistency. I appreciate the conclusion that having them staggered wasn't beneficial in its own right and to go to some more standard. But I think what we've heard from community members is that the location of the building, the materials of the building and the behavior can all contribute to more pain for those residents of all ages trying to sleep or live their lives. So how do we respond to that? Like I get the argument in the board report like why it's we've shifted from staggered to consistent, but why wouldn't we also for something that has a materia

5:54:22•MCMaureen Coffey

ballrooms layout, it would never be compliant for there to be live entertainment on their rooftop. Right. Given that it is not contained, it is an open air rooftop.

5:54:33 – 5:55:34•MCMaureen Coffey

Got it. I think that's important to make sure we all understand. I don't really have a question about 18 so much as thoughts. I don't view this as an endpoint to this conversation. I think that this is really kind of an intermediary place for us to rest while we figure out Everything else. It's certainly a lot better than not having it Because we haven't been able to figure out how to respond in some of these occasions where we've noticed repeated offenses, I think it's a very valid concern to bring up just the capacity of enforcement and so I guess one of my questions on that is you know if s

5:55:48 – 5:56:30•MCMaureen Coffey

perhaps fire code was not the best use of an example. I'm more saying if there was one inspection that revealed, yeah, I think Mr. Schreiber is starting to do the math that I'm alluding to. If there were multiple violations observed of perhaps of different combinations all at once or a fire code and then a zoning code, it could all occur pretty quickly, I think. Even, it doesn't have to be three full separate inspections in order to rack up three violations.

5:57:34 – 5:58:31•MCMaureen Coffey

Yeah. And yes. So in addition to that, I think These are the first, this is the first board meeting in which we're incorporating these conditions into anyone's use permits. And Will it change, I guess, any of our practices of enforcement to have this condition in such that, let's say there is an observed violation of a live entertainment use permit on the first Saturday of the month, would there be an intention then to do a re-inspection, let's say the following Saturday, rather than waiting you know, a month or two to come back and check the behavior. Is that part of our orientation here or c

6:00:46 – 6:02:13•MCMaureen Coffey

trying to sort through, I think like the purpose of the three violations as well, right, is trying to sort through what is a one-off genuine mistake versus what is a fundamental business practice. And I think I do share Mr. Brodsky's concern that if we're only inspecting once a month or if there's a violation and we don't actually go back repeatedly to make sure that it's not a pattern of business practice, that we're actually just going to be missing a lot. And I think to me that also kind of gets back to what I said on the prior item of just I think that there is a culture of disbelief that

6:15:06 – 6:15:21•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

So I move that the County Board approve the use permit amendment to increase the hours of live entertainment at Buena Vista subject to the previously approved and amended conditions with the County Board review in eight months, May, 2027. I second that.

6:15:28 – 6:16:03•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

I'll speak briefly. I know we've gone through a number of items today and And with this one in particular, and going through the staff report, and thank you to Mr. Brouski and everyone for coming up and giving their concerns. I see nothing quite honestly, in my opinion, that would cause me at this point to deny or do anything different. This is typically a consent agenda item that was pulled, but I am supportive of staff's recommendation, and so I'm fine with it.

6:17:06 – 6:17:48•MCMaureen Coffey

Yeah. I do want to express appreciation for Buena Vida improving. I know they're not perfect, but from where we were at with them a year-ish ago, I think it was, talk about a concerted effort. And so I'm grateful for that. I think there is still work to go. And I do wonder, thinking about you know, the open window issues, it's great that you all are calling directly to the venue to get it handled. Is there something from the staff side, like, do we want to know or be able to know about that? I just...

6:19:36 – 6:20:26•MCMaureen Coffey

Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I think you know, I'm like all my previous comments apply here I will have to grapple I think a little bit with the thoughts around the different building materials and construction and how that should or shouldn't play in and and particularly as mr. Defranti brought up the the legally defensible needs of our conditions So I think That is kind of a newer thought to me. It's not something I want to reject out of hand, but it's also not something I think I am equipped to grapple with prior to voting on this in this moment. So I think that's a good marker for addition

6:20:43 – 6:23:08•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So having a basic harmonization in things that can be harmonized like operating hours, et cetera, is actually today, we discussed that briefly before, is a relatively common practice in districts that have such mixed use like this part of Clarendon. The fact that individual businesses, individual building situations can vary is what is then absorbed in the collaborative space where owners, stakeholders, neighbors, the Clarendon Alliance, which I very much hope will be way more active in that space and work with the businesses because this really is a very one of the most

6:23:09 – 6:23:41•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

you spent here tonight, just for staff, can you get me up to speed on something? In all the conversations we've had tonight, but now here we are, help me understand the relationship of Clarenton Alliance, who of course, they're not here for whatever, probably don't need to be here, but what is the relationship between Clarenton Alliance, how you're working with them, with our businesses, and Clarendon when they have issues or concerns?

6:24:11 – 6:24:55•MCMaureen Coffey

And I can also speak a little bit to that, just that. Your liaison, yeah. I'm not this year, but I have been. The Clarendon Alliance, unlike a bid, is an optional membership alliance. So not every business or entity in Clarendon chooses to participate in the Clarendon Alliance, and they don't provide the same degree representation and business liaisonship type things that a bid would. I think Galen, the new executive director, is going to bring a lot in terms of what she hopes to be able to make Clarendon Alliance into, but I think historically they have not been involved really at all in this

6:24:55 – 6:25:48•JSJulius D. "JD" Spain, Sr.

I appreciate the context, and I think where I'm getting at is as we have these entities, whether it's you know, Clarendon, Roslyn, you name it, Boston, Columbia, Pike, National, the whole gamut, right? I just, for me, you know, the mission of most of these folks are to be the voice of their community. And how are we synchronizing all of this? I'm glad to hear there's conversations and understand that Clarendon Alliance's role may be limited, but there may be some some some work we can do again that's that's on the new executive director who is phenomenal to do that work I just wanted to kind o

6:25:49 – 6:27:26•TKTakis P. Karantonis

Welcome to Get to Know Her at Clarendon Day at the end of this week. That's one thing. In the last, let's say, five to six years, the Clarendon Alliance, for lack of resources, basically, has been weaker in their ability to liaise and work with the new generation of businesses in the Clarendon sector. Actually, the tradition of that, because I had the opportunity to remember this, was the other way around. It wasn't a public organization, a nonprofit organization. It was extremely well connected. The headquarters of Klarner was in Willows, and everybody would go there and get their marching or