Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Nice, nice. Everything went as planned and proposed and doing good?

Any objection for the Planning Commission to hear these two items together?

And from the microphone, name and address for the record.

I saw I wasn't here last month, and then I had a chance to relook at this. And I know that the body gave them a negative recommendation, but I really think that this should go through. And here's the reason for it. We're supposed to have a visual up here. Okay, John, you want to explain this?

Anyway, does everybody know where this is on here? Okay. So here's the thing. Here's the thing that if you look at this, and I think some of the comments from the last meeting was that we've not had one like this, but here's the thing about it. If that zone, which the frontage on the Lebanon Road is CG, correct? And I think this is coming in as CRC. But the thing about it is what I'm hoping will happen is is that someone will either buy both of these or this front lot will buy that because they don't have any room for anything anyway and with one lot there I mean we don't have a whole lot if y

here and most of us who live on that street in Tanglewood right behind that, the folks that I've talked to have a negative concern about this, concerned about the situation because the property right next to it, and we discussed this at the last meeting as well, has had some issues keeping it clean. And it's right next to the neighbors.

Are you saying this lot has had issues keeping it clean?

No, the one on the other side of the street there that has those three buildings, businesses right off of Lebanon Road. And they're stacked right behind the other. And I don't think a lot has changed. There has been plenty of opportunity for those other folks to develop, and much of that has not developed there yet. On the other side of Glenwood, that's still, as far as I know, most of that is vacant. And so they have a place to build at this point, is my perspective. But I know that we had the neighbor who spoke last month, as well and was concerned about it also and then i think luke mention

But my comment back towards that was that I felt like that they needed to come in together. So nothing should stop one from the other of acquiring the other should they want to do something like that. They come in and be replatted and done. My fear on this was if it is to develop independently with everything that they're requesting, I think it sets a very bad precedence. Because I can look at this map here in front of us right now just because they're parallel to Thoroughfare Commercial. that should we set this precedence, I can count four properties to six properties that would have the same

And so we would be struggling to have an access point on the Green Hill, possibly over to Tanglewood, that to me creates a monster issue at that, particularly the South Green Hill intersection. And there's really nothing we can do. And then I just believe that it sets a precedent. So if they want to come in together, they should buy each other and reply it.

Well, when they do that, they take a chance and have the contingent upon this body approving it. But if you'll look over to the east, that's Thoroughfare Commercial right there. You'll see the color, which is actually deeper than this whole lot. And this whole lot acreage is what, John?

An acre and a half, an acre and a quarter.

Yeah, 2.1. It's not very wide in the center. Yeah.

And I agree, but if we have to look at a site plan for thoroughfare commercial zoning on just this parcel, not because it's adjacent to the other, I think it creates a, and if they can meet our subdivision regulations, we have to approve. And if they don't ever combine together, that, it just, it scares the bejeebies out of me. And together, I love them together. I think this corner right here is a super valuable corner, and I would love to see it redevelop. It looks better since we got rid of the railroad tie wall out there. My father had his personal business in that building at one point in

Well, it can. um but but they would have a class d buffer as we all know so that would shield some of your obviously that would help in your there's a buffer on the other side too and it's yeah and i don't mind the buffer it's the ingress egress could they even could they even build yeah you're putting you're putting access in the middle of a turning line know he's saying could they even build a building with the buffer because these days creativity of setbacks as you can come to this meeting or yeah no no bounds well there would be there would be a class debuffer and you've got a good point t

yeah obviously attractive for someone to try to buy both of them or the tiger owner this to buy that because then you're just talking about the one classic man so you if if we open the same argument up for this property just look right there to your right on glenwood you got one deep right there and they're surrounded on three sides just like this property i don't think that i would desire to have that house turn commercial right there and it's kind of the same same argument there on now glenwood's not as traveled uh but i would say that those people on glenwood that that one house right there

You make a good point about it, Luke. There again, I mean, y'all gave it a negative recommendation. I would have voted positive. I'm going to vote positive tonight. Sure.

Sure. Yeah, and I agree with you a thousand percent that it's got good merit. I'd love to see the corner redevelop, but I'd like to see them replat and come in here for something appropriate and combine together. I think it's got a lot of merit to it, but just independently out there and the things that run through my mind of

uh of how and what could be put on there with this zoning in this land use plan um i don't know that i would be necessarily excited about it and the church next to it i think is also a daycare center that has quite a bit of traffic coming in and out of that uh area off of south green hill um as well um down here on the

On the south side of that, isn't it, where they come in now?

Commissioner Giles, anything good? No. John, you got anything else to say?

Anyone wishing to make a comment in regards to this item on the agenda, it's welcome and encouraged to do so. Please come to the microphone and name and address for the record.

We'll second that. It's a motion for a negative recommendation. All those in favor signify by saying aye and raising your hand. Aye. Against? Abstentions? There's a negative recommendation.

Kind of my thing on that, I would rather see the corner redevelop, and OPS is not conducive to the redevelopment, the discussion that we just had, commercial. I mean, what you're asking for would be desirable. Yes, sir. But it needs to come together. I know that that's hard to make sense, but if everything comes together as it is with the request, as i just said my fear is the access points on this and the precedence it's set uh with a one deep property with no direct access to a major thoroughfare such as lebanon road and then the potential access point this body would have to grant someone t

It's the access point on Green Hill that is one of the scariest points.

Because it's right into, you know, you can imagine if someone is coming, wants to go southbound on Green Hill, but then they want to turn into this lot, that they're going to push traffic back onto Lebanon Road because traffic's already queued up trying to get through the intersection going north on South Green Hill. and you've caused a malfunction junction right there probably one of our busiest roads in in mount julia to south green hill right so it's just good design and some good thought too there's merit um and so i hope that something has worked out and and i hope we get to see it again

North Green Hill Road, then that would take traffic off from Green Hill Road if they were going into this site. And as far as counting the lots, this is the only one that could have two ingresses and ingresses on two different roads unless these people down here combined lots together. You see what I'm saying?

My actual hope would be that if it were to redevelop, that the only access point would be Leavenham Road.

Yeah, I mean, that would be the best, but you probably want secondary somewhere just for safety reasons. I mean, we're talking about the one on Mount Dewitt Road for the circular. I mean, you would want that if that redeveloped.

You could actually shoot them out to Tanglewood over there to the back of that strip center.

Yeah. So basically if they want to combine together, come on, let's take a look at it.

Wonderful. Thank you. That is a deferral by the applicant. Item, let me read these three real quick. Item 8B, which is recommendation item back to the Board of Commissioners, review the annexation request for the Williams property located at 98 Tanglewood Drive. It's been deferred per request of the applicant. Item 8C, which is recommendation item back to the Board of Commissioners, review the plan of services for the Williams property located at 98 Tanglewood Drive. It's been deferred. per the applicant item 8d which is a recommendation item back to the board of commissioners which is the rev

Let me make sure I'm right on this too, Joe. You guys will... basically going to complete the entire road section extension of providence parkway all the way leading to this site so that road will be completed in its entirety correct the development of this site that is correct yeah so unlike what we did on the other side of providence parkway where it was three lanes for a time and then it ultimately got widened to five right this gets the ultimate five-round section at the central pike

start prior to the central pike interchange therefore allowing john hager whether or not it comes like this i'm sure that's a discussion between you guys and tdot uh out there but this would potentially give an access point a good access point so that the people on john hager continue to come in and out exactly

It at least gives an option or an access point right there with the folks that depend on John Hager while Central Pike is kind of messed up up there for a little bit or pretty busy with a lot of activity.

We're going to have a five-lane road sitting there as a potential option at least. Joe, would you guys be ahead of that 29 date then? Yeah, we're going to start construction this fall.

I can help you with that one. In the building?

I think that Mr. John made a note saying that we need postmaster approval in order to locate it there. Let's go ahead and ask for representation because I've got a lot of questions.

Yes. So that's going to lead me to one of my questions I have. Where do they park? You know, in the lot there.

so no dedicated parking for the mail kiosk it's not dedicated now shouldn't there be some that says so many minutes to park close to a kiosk I mean, like you have that when you go into retail places. I mean, restaurants, you normally park there a certain few minutes while you go pick up something. Would that not be consistent in this many units and have your mail in one place?

we come with how many spaces i mean i don't know this yeah this one todd knows i mean i don't i don't know how many i mean spaces would is is the norm for this i mean oh oh i see melvin really that's right one i know we offered the tail it might be two all right

Well, how many times does somebody go to the post office like I go every day and there's more than two cars there? I go almost every day.

I was in a Bixley Apartments the other day and I was with a lady and she was picking up her mail. And then it was probably in the afternoon people are getting off from work and they're coming in and wanting to get their mail in

So let's just carry on with concerns I have overall on this one as it sits. I asked staff to give us a copy of the putt itself, which everybody here tonight received a copy of it. And one of the main reasons I wanted to see this particularly is because I wanted to see how the original PUD proposed the parking and how each building was gonna be serviced by that. A couple of the big differences, you know, we had buildings or one building at the back on this position to the floodplain there, I guess, to the east of this site. I think it was set up at one point for some of the green space on the,

around 15.9 very well and then in in looking at the overall design we're like well let's do apartments and then hey we should get some room left let's throw three town homes in there um the logic to that one something that i've never seen in 22 years sitting here that you throw three town homes uh in the middle of all apartments um don't like that they could easily be converted back to commercial and commercial um percentage to come up because that was what was desired by this commission at the time that this PUD was approved number two is you've got the commercial and then the commercial does

10 sections that we've designed the parking to back into the drive lanes throughout this site on blind corners, blind intersections that I don't see that the travel around this site and the way it's designed and the way that the parking, the building elevations, I think everything looked great, but the parking configuration on this and how you're gonna drive and maneuver this site, I think it's really poorly designed. I mean, we have traffic backing out. I'm happy to show you my plan and show you my concerns on it, but... You know, in the initial plan, too, with where your northern parking is,

and and i was concerned about those three town homes as well it just looks so just pushing people together and in such a small small space here but the pocket park is that where that is behind the um the townhome units um is that a potential playground what is what is that meant to be i didn't see if i see the pool the pavilion and a fitness center. And I know that the designs of the apartments seem to be one and two bedrooms. Do you have three bedrooms there as well?

So it's probably designed for beginning homes and younger people, but they still have children sometimes. And I just was thinking that there's nothing much that benefits them in terms of a play area. I see that it could be there by the pool pavilion beyond that, a designated area. And that's a lot of people. It's just a lot of people.

Sam, I have a question for you. Is this, at this point of this project, is this one to where this body has the ability to put a trigger on the commercial versus CO?

i just want to make sure that the commercial component uh is done um i'd like to see to see it move forward but i think his parking configuration is laid out right now i've got concerns in regards to this and let me ask you one more question real quick the um the north side parking as you come in off of uh old beckwith road it looks like that entire north section of parking is off property yes it would be shared with that next development that's coming in the age-restricted piece okay you guys got easements and everything in place allowing that to happen okay was that necessary to get in compl

So you saw my concerns with some of the parking there. Couldn't lose enough parking to address all of those concerns that I shared with you. To me, it would cause you to lose that one right there, 3, 4, maybe 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. We would definitely be under-parked. 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. Roughly around 20 parking places is what it would lose. Do you have any suggestions for that reconfiguration?

Yeah. Todd, you're a traffic engineer. I know it's not a public road.

Make a couple of notes here real quick to make sure it's included in here. It's just some additional crosswalk striping. I'd like to see crosswalk striping at the sidewalk section. As you come in the north entrance, first parking lot to your right, you got sidewalk to sidewalk, no crosswalk, and that's adjacent to one of your main entrances. So just crosswalk striping there as seen in other places on the the development same thing in regards come through the roundabout on the east side there adjacent to the clubhouse building building 100 apartment slash clubhouse come through the roundabout t

further questions comments Commissioner Frank yeah I'm only go back to a comment I think Commissioner Armistead made about the mail room I mean yeah that's gonna be building 100 is going to be hard to live in next to that thing I mean you think about it I mean I want I get my mail every day from a mailbox but everyone gets their mail 300 people are going to be visiting building one a day and it's in the same building of 47 units and so somebody's going to be living next door to this and it's never going to be quiet and there's always going to i mean honestly the mail room should be somehow put

I'm not thinking about the clubhouse. I'm just seeing some other areas that are possibilities. You're talking about another structure?

You were talking about coming in to the north off of Old Beckwith and there's plenty of looks like a grain space there where a

i'm just very wary of the situation i agree with you 100 and i would like to see a playground in that just north of the pool there it's a perfect spot for it sam we'll come back to you real quick does this body at this point in time on this submittal uh this being a site plan request do we have the ability to uh to request to make changes to this Or do we have the ability to turn it down?

Well, the only thing I have about the pool is this neighborhood probably is not going to have a lot of children. It's going to be one and two bedrooms. So you don't have a lot of younger people that go out there and want to maybe see this kind of thing. Like when we go to Florida, a place, you know, they've got islands in the pool. Of course, it doesn't do anything for me. But, you know, kids and younger people, it does. So I don't know. I don't have a problem with the pool. But I think that they could do something with that building to make that kiosk separate or something. Because it's just

I got to be honest with you. yeah without the dumpsters without the mail kiosk the three townhomes give me a ton of heartburn our traffic engineer is good with the uh with the parking but i mean it just you could have that mail kiosk on there with those three townhomes i know that's not going to be equitable i personally think that that should review the staff comments

and and adjust accordingly pardon me i just wanted to point out that the final master development plan does have the three town homes so the planning commission should not have an issue with that very well

there's been very little site planning changes since fmdb no that doesn't change a poor design and it's a poor design it's poorly thought out poorly laid out it might be in compliance but there's just zero consideration to people that are going to live here i mean i just don't see how you can stand there and say that there's not i mean there's just it's in compliance we can say that uh outside of that it's no vision i mean i could keep on with adjectives but and if i may mention please what happens when you don't have

quality is that in the future then the rent will drop and you're going to have some situations and i never voted for apartments in my previous time of commission never And I do now because there's some places that I've had a total change now. But there again, the final design should be for quality too, not just quantity. Because, you know, time goes by fast. And so what's going to happen 20 years from now? If people are not satisfied and they have to walk all the way across for this, or they have to take the trash all the way across this whole development, and... And all of this, who's going t

please if anybody else has any additional discussion feel free and have it i'm reading some stuff personally over here i do have one more question please what if the postmaster doesn't approve this mail kiosk being located internally in building 100 i wouldn't i mean the postmaster

and here's my concern and this is based upon staff's comment as well um if we were to say hey you can get with staff to resolve some of these issues and move forward the fact that staff has already indicated that they've requested several things of you in their meetings and you have had zero willingness to work with staff in order to hear their concerns in regards to the site but yet continue to press the site forward is of concern in itself. So how can I put that back upon staff to say, hey, this body feels like many more than two dumpsters. This body feels like the mail kiosk is here. When s

john do you believe that the issues that you've heard from us here tonight if we were to make those conditions of approval that this would be able to be worked through uh by yourself and additional staff at the city and dumpsters i think that's about it

I'd like to see the flavor, regardless of the age.

Well, just to say that, I mean, don't get me wrong in my comments about the the mail room and all, but we want you to be successful. If you're successful, you're going to have a good business. Apartments are a business, and if they don't make a profit, they go down in value, and there's certainly not any pride to have in your city.

Come on. All right, thank you. Let's go ahead and open the floor for citizen comments. Any citizens wishing to make a comment, I welcome the courage to do so. Please come to the microphone and name and address for the record. Seeing no citizen comments, I am going to open the floor for a motion in regards to this item on our agenda.

i think the restaurant should have a dumpster for itself an individual dumpster for the restaurant most restaurants do have a dumpster and they fill them up so i know i had a concern in regards to some crosswalks we have additional dumpsters

mail kiosk access and parking to the kiosk so yeah yeah Anybody like to dare to craft a motion in regards to this? I'll make a motion to approve subject to the additional following conditions one is the addition of a crosswalk and I will provide my drawing to staff that I have here indicating these points in addition of the crosswalk at the north northwest sidewalk connection as you come in off the north side. Crosswalk again from the commercial to the parking lot. I'm going to include in that crosswalk section the extension of the sidewalk up to Old Beckwith Road. um a additional make sure th

Yes, sir. So I got your color palette and everything back here, and then you're doing texture on top of it. is the are you using the smooth form tilt up then is the plan that is my understanding i mean from an architectural standpoint there may be some stamping for texture uh but i do believe it's smooth form okay so the text the texture would be applied during the application of the paint paint or is it some kind of a stucco or drive it or i guess you know you can put the color out there what is being applied we just had a few of these commercial buildings over there in the area that that i l

Correct. Okay. Yeah, and just curiosity out of myself, how, you know, is it, We're just going to be a guy with a spray gun and spraying just direct Sherwin-Williams or Sherwin-Williams paint colors. So Sherwin-Williams paint colors to it. Or is he actually going to have a, you know, you actually got textured guns or materials or just adding that color to something out there. a different type of spray on material that would give it that kind of finish like the old school stucco you know that's sprayed on as well but then you put whatever color that you want to it red green or purple or whatever

don't think they're not really related to what we're talking about okay okay understood see one of the things that I've had and then my particular issues I mean you can see it it's not as evident as I thought it was gonna be but it is the PMDP i mean maybe it's it's as easy as saying your fndp building locations have to be the same at fmdp well right now it says approximate locations but exact i mean yeah because we can change that will make a huge difference just with those list requirements yeah it's funny how we don't see any of of this uh pmdp to fmdp when it comes to a laid out subdivisio

You know, we're a little off the topic of land use anyway. And I mean, yeah, there's probably trouble between holding them accountable. But we get land use plan amendment requests almost every meeting. I've had four or five in a meeting. So the development community, they're not afraid to change our land use plan. We shouldn't be afraid to change our land use plan. The problem, I mean, this is a question that i don't have a vote art's got a vote on it ultimately the the city commission gets to choose to amend the land use plan since they adopted it so they have the final say but the question i

know that is a perfect question for a county commissioner to answer and that's kind of that's right the central pike interchange you know i can see the the density staying north and or staying south of 40 and whatnot uh but then as central pike moves up through there And we get into some of our traditional properties, some of our older age properties and larger lots. I mean, you know, I wouldn't have imagined that you're going to go down 40 out of Nashville and say Mount Juliet makes three exits. Never in my lifetime I would have ever imagined that one. i sure don't want somebody's impression

well don't rub it in well i'm just saying and i mean because it is finally the boc's decision of what happens right but one of the one of the things that i think we run the risk at central pike right now everybody wants to be honest if apartments the whole idea of central pike was to flush out the traffic from the south side of the city to where it doesn't have to come and cross retail shopping center traffic. We just mix it all together there to get on the interstate. So the idea is it's just going to be like a great big vacuum, take all that away, take half the traffic off of Mount Juliet Ro

future and I can only speak for me but I think the rest of the Commission would probably say let staff work on this on what you were talking about before i think it's exciting what's going to happen on a golden bear and i think that's going to add a lot of some things that we wanted in the city and we're going to see that develop there as far as apartments are concerned i also understand where um when you have so many apartments together it can cause those type of troubles but we you know there's some other places that we don't have apartments that would probably be good places to have an apar

Yeah, one of the things that's coming to mind that kind of we don't think that things will happen out there. One of them, and you look at it today, you're like, man, why didn't we make this thing happen? The connection right there at now Volunteer Bank used to be F&M Bank. Everybody's like, oh, West Willis Utility ain't going to buy that property. It ain't going to be a boneyard or a scrapyard. an awesome opportunity to put our apartments right there at that location. And it is a bone in a scrap yard. We had a good traffic design. We had a good road design to come through there. We lost an opp

i think we're going to run out of time we're going to find ourselves in an awkward position because too many times i've seen ain't never going to happen and it's happened i think this one will happen too unfortunately please if i might comment dealing with the land use cement a land use plan you made the the the comment about all the land use how many of those did we pass how many times do people come in here and we give a positive recommendation And how many times is negative? So out of tonight, how many were negative? I know of one that I wanted to be positive. So how many of the others were

And that's exactly what they're saying. Fix that. So, yeah, I mean, I'll,

we can do our due diligence and you can do your due diligence but we're not going to stop them from coming to that podium and it's just a matter of what we do when that when that happens yeah i agree i get a lot of feedback from people you know you just do this or you just prove that this is you know you got property owners have rights and um we try to make a consideration towards that what would be um So her two things, let's cover first one first. So what John said there. So staff is looking at a potential regulation change. right now and the regulation change would be kind of focused toward

And put better teeth into what transition from PMDP to FMDP. Would it include language kind of particularly towards this multi-use and i.e. the commercial? Because as we've stated here, we feel like the commercial is the worm on the back of a big hook. and that the commercial may or may not, as I feel like did that plan tonight. Unfortunately, I was in a position where I had to recommend it for approval, but their commercial looked like they just threw it up there and really who cares?

you could add it to the code but it seems to work just having it as part of the PUD but they do have to submit a phasing plan and more scrutiny your phasing plan make sure the commercials in the saving time phase one but they could correct me if i'm wrong like the one that we approved tonight um they could come in and just do the residential could they not there is no requirement for them to do that commercial portion

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, personally, if I'm developing, I wouldn't do it. I mean, finding good tenants right now are a pretty challenging thing in that world. But finding people to buy apartment complexes are pretty easy in this world right now. and so can we put you know just a requirement commercial must be completed in phase one of these multi and and i think that that potentially solves a lot of problems if you and you don't need that to put triggers on ceos you just say hey commercial has to be done in your first phase not be thinking about and that is when they come in and build the residenti

and then you've got somebody else in here stuck with a PUD that they didn't get approved, but they own it now, and they're committed to build something they never even really wanted to build. It happens all the time, and that's probably your biggest headache, I would say.

Or just say it. Just say, I just want to build apartments only. Hell, I'd rather you do that, you know, than come in with one thing. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean – I would have rather given that complex tonight a variance on parking because I think that the parking and the roadways just lacked thought and creativity and proper design.

Go ahead, please. Okay, so don't we normally put the traders on the preliminary master development plan?

Right? So that's where we do that most of the time. And as far as the commercial, a lot of your apartments are coming in where that commercial is underneath it, like down here at... I wasn't here when it was approved that... Vintage stations. McFarland is what I'm thinking about. So, you know, in that situation, of course, the apartments obviously support whatever that commercial is down there. But there could be, that could be brought up to do. And that's something that I think it's at the preliminary master.

And also McFarland is one, I know they'll build their commercial. Their commercial will thrive on theirs. Oh, yeah. My issue with that one was the apartments just didn't look complimentary.

Well, that development is going to be awesome. It is going to be. They're going to have the outside arena thing down there, whatever you call it.

But then you take this one that we had to prove tonight. I mean, you've got some guts if you develop that commercial portion. And, and quite frankly, I mean, so we really don't have anything that would require them to build the commercial portion of that.

trigger should have been a put on them right when it was coming when it came in and that's what i'm saying that i don't want it to be something that we have to bring in memory to say hey let's make sure we put it on let's just put it in the regs and throw it out there and say that you have to do the commercial but we could have that on preliminary to have say it could be for example triggers it could be and then it would be addressed every time it would you see

It'll solve another problem. With the commercial being first, it won't be an afterthought. It won't be just something thrown together to be in compliance. They have to build it first. They'll be more likely to make it successful.

saying it the right way with each development versus having a blanket for everything might be a bit tricky but that's why we need the triggers on there and then we would address it it's uh but what commissioner franklin is saying though if you think about this they would make sure they had some tenants which would also take the burden off of our staff at the city to go out to try to find something coming in that would be part of it and it would you know and that and that that may alleviate some coming in it would reduce some coming in but we would have this and so that's why i'm saying i think

so that is what would be coming so that's item one that's something that staff is going to work on and bring back forward to us and that would end up being a recommendation item back to the boc for zoning regulation amendment yes okay so is it the desire of the city for us not to form a subcommittee and not look at the land use plan

OK. Fair enough. so we we brought that before the planning and we voted on that from the planning standpoint as a discussion item to this bot so i'll turn it back over and say what would the will of this body be to defer that for 60 days is is that acceptable 90 days what are a little bit more than that 90 days Just looking at, yeah, that'll give you a time to allow you guys to come to us.

Do you want to defer the committee 60 days and just decide then based on their feedback? You may want to just dissolve it. I mean, it could be. I mean, I don't know. But, I mean. If we wanted just to defer it 60 days and wait for staff.

That would be the will of the body? No objection to that? I'm necessarily not here to stir any pots.

We have not. We agreed at the last meeting to form a subcommittee to explore the land use plan.

just needs two more members appointed to her.

We're just saying that we're not going to take any meetings or further action. It's kind of been held up. I had some personal family issues come up over the last three weeks very unexpectedly and running point on that family had to take priority in this circumstance and situation.

Very, very, very unfortunate. And if I may say, didn't all and i wasn't here but didn't use sprouts as an example i mean you know didn't didn't they have two apartment buildings up there building yeah they did the commercial bars they're working on the commercial did the commercial look at all of that that's come out yeah so i mean um

there are good examples and yes yeah and i think that i mean you know you mentioned that on land use plan i'm not against departments either because we do need the density and we need the the housing options and provided here and i agree with commissioner giles that we there's you know i wasn't necessarily in favor of the one up on donovan road when it came in but appears to work it's we're getting the traffic out of there we put some road improvements on donovan but there's times where it's a question but You know, it's not what I assumed or thought it was going to be. I really wish we would