Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay, and this is the pre-meeting briefing. I am not John Baker. Mrs. Hensley, would you like to present administrative comments?

And I started getting a little woozy, and he's like, no, I'm good.

It was a late night. It was a rough morning the next day. All right. So discuss and review the agenda items. D1 is to consider the minutes of the September 8th Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. Do we have any comments, questions? No? Any corrections? No?

All right. E1 is to consider a specific use permit for a drive-through at 901 Keller Parkway. And Mr. Flanders.

And if I remember correctly, there are a number of variants for this property, right? All right. Do you all have any questions? I'm sure you will go over it thoroughly in the meeting. And E2 is the site plan amendment that he has briefed us on. Do you have any?

Alright, any comments, questions on this one? Okay, I figure this one will get quite a bit of attention in chambers. Alright, E3 is to request, consider a request for a planned development zoning change from single family residential 36,000 square foot lots to planned development residential 25,000 square foot lots. For 901 Johnson Road. And Mr. Adam?

And average lot size was like 32,000? That's correct.

size is 32, but the zoning has to be 25 to fit the 32.

I mean, the applicant knows what people will buy. I don't know that I would buy a really nice house that backs up to that bus corral every morning, every evening.

nor that it would have a wooden fence backing up to the bus corral.

So I get a question. I'll start with this one. If you had left at the original square footage, and what is the original? 36. 36. That's what I thought. So did it have anything about how many houses they could put in at 36? Or it was always, no, I'm changing this thing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it, got it, got it. Yes, okay. And I know who it is, too.

all right anything else before is to consider a future land use plan amendment for semi-public to and low density single-family to medium density single-family for 901 Johnson Road. Mr. Edelman, same property.

Thomas? Gina States. They came in, originally I lived near there, and they wanted to do zero lot line homes. And I fought it, and we won and got it 36,000 square foot. It stayed. This is the same thing. So I will not tell you, but you know how I feel. And I hope you appreciate my thoughts.

I do, and when I visited and talked to Mr. Lemon yesterday in our pre-meeting, he did advise that they looked for those that back up to Gene Estates to have similar property lines to give it a similar feel. It looked like most of them kind of matched up. I understand your concern.

Yeah, because I fought for it, and all of us fought for it, and we kept it 36,000 square feet.

I remember, the seven homes, right? The seven rooftops?

I mean, the whole June estates. And when they finally got it done, the first thing they did was come behind my house and clear it. First thing. And they did a clear cut. So, I hope you appreciate the work that we did to fight that. Because when you say you want to keep color the same,

and respect your opinion. Okay, thank you. All right, so that is all that we have. Any other questions or comments for staff before we adjourn? All right, if not, it is 6.44 and we will return at seven in Chambers. the regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission. It is 7.03, and we will call this meeting to order. We will start with the pledges. Mr. Lice, will you lead us?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands,

All right. At this time, we will allow the commissioners to introduce themselves. I will start with my right.

And I am Erin Farner. Chairperson John Baker is not here this evening. Now is persons to be heard. This is a time for the public to address the commission on any subject. However, the Texas Open Meeting Act prohibits the commission from discussing issues which the public has not been given three days notice. Issues raised may be referred to city staff for research, possible future action. Each speaker will be allowed three minutes to speak. We have three items on our agenda tonight that are public hearings. If you are here to speak on those, we encourage you to wait until those are called. But

Thank you. Commissioner Johnson? Second. Thank you. All in favor? All right, that passes. Item E is our new business. Item E1 is a public hearing to consider a request for a specific use permit for a drive-through at Seven Brew Coffee on 1.1 Acres, located on the north side of Keller Parkway, located at the corner of Keller Parkway and Pate Ore Road, legally described as lot 1R, block 1 of the Lee-Wayne subdivision, zoned retail, and address 901 Keller Parkway. Mr. Edelman. I'm sorry. Mr. Flanders.

Is the applicant here and wish to add anything? If you will, state your name and address for the record, please.

Okay. Thank you. Well, at this time, it is a public hearing, so we will allow the public to address us. But if you'll stay close, we may have questions for you once that closes. All right. Does anybody wish to address or persons to be heard on this? All right. If not, do we have a motion to close the public hearing?

All right, seeing as we have closed the public hearing, can we get a vote? All right, thank you. The public hearing is now closed. The commission now may ask any questions or comments. Mr. Leist.

Yeah, so just a general question, and I think since it goes into the next item, if the applicant could come up. We have this project. I won't get too much into the next item, but can you just talk to me about how you plan this particular addition to interact with the area as far as you're also planning to kind of do a facelift on this multi-tenant building?

Okay. And where, just so I understand, we frequent Color Donuts, so this is a very important building for my family. But so can you just help me orientate myself? What part are you going to, are you towards the east section of the building or the west section of the building that has the gas station?

Okay, so that makes it as furthest as possible from the other drive-thru business. That's right.

That's really helpful. My main concern was just that drive-thru traffic from Andy's not having two drive-thrus on the same side of the building. One just I think visually that's not great, but then two, that could pose some traffic problems in the parking lot. But those are the questions that I had. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah, I applaud the reuse of a building and the beautification. Congratulations. Great initiative. Me personally, I don't think a business like this could survive without a drive-through. I think this is a natural fit. I definitely could support it. Thank you.

All right. Thank you. So we have a motion on the floor. Commissioner Leist?

All right. Seeing as we have a motion and a second, can we call for a vote? All right, so that motion passes and you will be before council on October 20th. So we will move to item E2, which is to consider a site plan amendment with variances for an existing 12,117 square foot multi-tenant building on property legally addressed as lot one block. 1R, Block 1 of the Lee-Wayne subdivision, being 1.11 acres located on the northeast corner of Keller Parkway and Pate Ore zoned retail. And address is 901 Keller Parkway. Mr. Flanders.

All right, thank you. Commissioners, any questions?

Yes, actually, sir, this is the public hearing. I do have some questions if the applicant could come forward. And sorry, could we get the... On the slides, could we get all of the variances up? I think that would be the most helpful slide. I was going to ask for that.

Yeah. I think we were all going to ask Mr. Flanders to put that back up. There you go. Thank you.

Great. Well, first, I want to, like, this kind of project, before I serve, before we began serving on this body, I served in economic development and it's been important to the city just in general to revitalize this corridor, right? We have a lot of buildings here and then also in our 377 corridor that are very dated, great businesses in them, but obviously design standards in the 80s are different than now. I mean, to say Keller has changed is an understatement. So I see a lot of these variances are is it they seem to be just related to because if my read is that it's because of how like the

Yeah, so how much under-parked would you be if, for instance, we did a 30-foot buffer? That obviously strikes a lot of your parking, right? It's a full row of parking you lose. But how much under-parked would the property be?

And what's the staff, what's the parking requirement for this multi-tenant building? 61. I know it's going to be high because we have to use the highest use for the whole thing. So it is 6-0. 61. 61. That doesn't include ADA, though.

And how many exist today? How many are you proposing? Proposed condition with 58. 58? Okay, so slightly under-parked. And then if we lose 14, then you're at 44.

not going to call it a plaza but a large landscape area right there that exceeds the 30 feet in depth and how many with these um the the islands that you're going to install in the log because i believe there are none today right it's just it's just asphalt um how many parking spaces would you gain back if you didn't do any islands four four that's not that many um Kind of, I think where I would like to be on it is, my inclination is do the 30-foot, do the 30-foot buffer. I know that's a little intensive on cutting your parking out, but that plus you changing the facade of this building, it's

Yeah, I think... That's a fair thing to point out. Yeah. It's just really an idea. That's kind of the end of my questioning and wisdom on it. I want to hear where the rest of the brainpower up here goes.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Gentlemen, thank you for coming here. I appreciate your entrepreneur spirit. I understand you do not live here. So I have issues with one through four. I see concrete in your Keller is a city that has trees and has landscape. I cannot go along with this. So one through four have to be how the city wants it. Number nine, the fire lane 24 foot, that has to be a fire question. If they want 24 foot, it's going to be 24 foot. So the parking issues and all the other stuff, I don't have a problem with it, but I do not want to see the landscape of color change to concrete. So i

Is that, Sarah, is that, that's kind of your question.

Okay, I take back number nine. I still have a problem with one through four, and you know how I'm going to be. You've got to be, you don't live here, and I want to see the landscape better, not worse. I don't like concrete. Thank you, gentlemen.

All right, so I am the tree hugger, so I do respect Commissioner Scott. I was on the park board for many years. I don't, I have been going to that center and Keller Donuts since my son ran cross country in 2004. So we've been there a long time and miss the days of getting to go regularly on Saturday morning to pick up his donut holes. I'm okay with not as big a landscape buffer, right? It's not there today. It's a weird parking lot. You never know where you're going to park. I'm glad to see that you're going to stripe it, and I will know where the entrance is, where the exit is, and where my c

I don't know if Mr. Flinders can kind of show us. Maybe that would help.

So is there a way to pull that dual lane back further Because if you'll notice, the exit points where those two arrows are are right at the same entrance point from Paydor where the big red circle is. So if you have that divided lane all the way down to there, one, that first car in the innermost lane is going to have to cross out. We have a lot of young drivers. We're going to have a lot of young people. that just, to me, is problematic, and that's probably where mine would be a no.

I understand they have to come back for an SEP, right? No, they don't. Sarah, does the coffee shop have to come back for anything? This is an SCP and a site plan. We're good after they do both these things, right? So they don't have to come back. I just want to make sure they're not coming back to discuss any of the layout. This is what we're talking about today.

Yeah, because we just passed the SUP for the drive-through, which, get, no problem. I don't know where the exit is for the, if they're coming out the back. So I get that it's Seven Brew, but that would be my concern and something to potentially look at and address before you go to council. Remember, we're just a recommending body. On the front end, could you potentially look at moving your islands to more align with the entrances so that way cars are not backing up as someone's pulling in from Keller Parkway, right? Because right now if I pull in on the one that's to the furthest west, I could

Okay. Okay. So I don't know that I have a problem with the wheel stops. Hopefully there's not a whole lot of cowboy parking trucks that want to park in these that is going to not have a wheel stop. I know some of my other commissioners have probably addressed that with you. We've talked about the buffers. We've talked about the landscape. And so I will yield the floor to my fellow commissioners. Commissioner Johnson.

Thank you Chairman. So I do agree somewhat with what's been said and I was leaning a little bit towards before you had talked about it with maybe doing a smaller at least buffer because you know how it's just straight concrete to the edge and I do think parking and especially not understanding who we may have as future tenants is potentially needed and we're already a little bit short. So while I would love to have the huge front barrier, I can see the potential for not doing that. I know this is putting you on the spot, but if we would do any kind of barrier, is that going to potentially caus

So there's not even a room for even an eight or six inch at least grass barrier.

Yeah, even with a six inch or something.

Well, and I appreciate that, and I think that's something even that I'll reiterate for the public that's watching. We're taking a building that's existing. We're not taking a site plan that we're building from scratch up like we were for Cane's and Andy's and those that are beside that, that we could get the front. Right. So I do understand the limit because if I'm looking at it, what we're saying is we're going to take that double parking lot there and turn it into a single if we do any kind of landscaping in the front.

And then we really are limiting who can even potentially go in there. A restaurant probably isn't even going to look to go in there because there's absolutely no parking for people to come in and sit down and eat. So that corner is needing a big facelift. So I do appreciate you trying to work with that. I do think you were talking about, Commissioner, the drive-in through there. If I'm seeing correctly, is that not one of your grass medians right as you pull in off of 1709 so that they're actually not backing into that parking area, I mean the drive-in?

Yep. So you've got the, you have some barrier there. Do you see that? Commissioner Farmer? Okay. So you were wanting that to be bigger? Okay. I was just curious when I was, oh, the western. Yeah, the western one, what I was wondering is, you see how the entrance where, because you used to have the gas station there and the pumps. So the first one, would it not be appropriate to pull that median to where it, actually reaches to where the in and out is and match those up so that you don't have, it's matching the planter that you have beside that.

I just think that that would allow for more straight turning in. And it would even it up. I did have some concern, like Commissioner Farmer, on where I saw that it looked like the drive-through was ending I do think pulling that back so that it's, because you're going to have to get both those cars to turn. So if you have both of them stacked right beside where cars are parking, first off, you're into that sidewalk. So it would seem that the little bit of a sidewalk that's in that building, because it's not very large, that you should be able to walk over to pay or to go down to the school bec

And it does look like it's pulled back then. Or is that just even?

So that you would have the walkway normally that would be there that could walk to the pay door without being in the middle of a car. Okay. But there wouldn't be any, so since they want that because it's beside their building, that's where they come out, it would be difficult to do it in reverse is what I'm hearing.

Well, I was running them into the back street. Literally completely reversing. Literally completely reversing the flow.

You mentioned that there was people that were taking the orders, so I didn't think that... Since people were taking the orders, does the flow, whether it goes one way or the other, actually matter?

Okay. I think, yeah, if we can pull it back towards a little bit back behind that building and leave that side.

I appreciate that because I do think that would be a concern. Because it's a real short, and you obviously know the site, I mean, it's real short to turn in. It always has been. Right. So, yeah, I think at least being able... to put as much landscaping and trees that we can get into the medians that you're putting in. Is the two against the building? Are you planning on putting planters in there, those two that are up there?

Okay. So we'll have something that's going to be up on the front, which we have nothing now. We have a plain parking lot right now. Correct. It's not striped or anything. So, I mean, as I would love to see all the shrubbery, but I also would love to see this building renovated and active and vibrant in the city. And that where you get gas, whatever you call that little, the pumps, gone. Because it's been sitting there for a long time. And I know that's going to be a big mitigation when you go to take those tanks out and everything. So I do like that you clarified about the fire lane because th

All right. Mr. Leist, do we have a motion?

Yeah, two quick comments before I make a motion. One, I would encourage you, I think that, and I don't know if this needs to be in the site plan for council. I think it makes sense. I think it would be nice for them to queue single file to go underneath their awning, and that would take care of the traffic issue turning out, especially because you said with how narrow it is getting in and out on pay-to-work, having those two, like you're going to have two people turning in is double-wide, you can barely turn in and go out at the same time, right? So I think that they should queue in single fil

Maybe instead of doing a 30-foot setback, could you maybe see if you can change that to grass and get rid of the 80s orange whatever that is there? Might help a bit with that. I move to approve item e2 Commissioner Johnson second All right.

Is there any other? Comments, I think you've heard the concerns of the Commission regardless of how this goes, right? We will take a vote but we will now vote we have a motion and a second to approve and All right, so that carries three to two. We are recommending, body, you will go before council on October 20th. All right, thank you. So next up is item E3 to consider a plan development zoning change from single family residential 36,000 square foot lots to plan development single family residential 25,000 square foot lots for Providence. A proposed plan development on 20.93 acres legally des

Please, would the applicant like to make their presentation? And if you will, please state your name and address for the record.

Thank you very much. If you'll stay close, I'm sure that we will have questions. But now this is a public hearing. We have a couple people who have requested to speak. So first we have Brian Kutabak and then Lori Powers. Good evening, if you'll say your name and address for the record.

I apologize, but your three minutes is up I don't know if you've got someone else who can finish your notes for you, but thank you for coming forward.

Thank you very much. And Mr. Justin Starr. Just hold.

All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right. I don't have anybody else slated. If you'd like, if you'll please hand your card and then.

That's all right. No worries. All right. And if you want to come to the microphone and tell us your name and address for the record, please.

Very good. Thank you. All right. Is there anybody else who wishes to speak on this? If not, I entertain a motion to close the public hearing. Commissioner Johnson? Second. All right. If we can take a vote. All right. The public hearing is now closed. Do we have any commissioners who would like to ask any questions or address any comments? Dr. Scott, did you have a question? Yes.

Thank you, Madam Chair. that was asking about, are all the houses along that proposed area, are they one story or two stories?

So I don't think that we can ask that, but I think that you can ask that of.

Okay. Thank you. Question number two is on this area on the left, Is that a walking park or were you going to put a pond in there, you know, like the June Estates have right now? Is it just all grass, trees?

Help me out a little bit. On that side, is there any way that you could have another exit or entry? Or is it just it's all closed? Is that dirt? What is all that right there? Is that somebody else's property?

Thank you. UDC says 15% and you have 11.25. How many square feet is that? Would that push into lot 15? Is that what you're saying? Yeah.

Understood. Help me out with what they're talking about. So when they built their houses, there's barbed wire fence. They had to put their fence two foot back so they had to give up some property. Is that what they're saying? And they're wanting you to... Why couldn't you all just use the same fence?

And I'm gradually getting to my other concern, lots one through five. Can you explain why you went to 28,000 versus the 36? I did the math and did some, I basically look at your, you're going to lose part of lot six and it would just be an open space if you went to 36,000 and you could do it through one through five, but lot six would be lost.

I do appreciate your trying to stay within the 36. It's just that 1 through 5 is kind of disturbing. That's just my only issue as far as that goes. There was a concern about somebody doing three-inch trees versus five-inch trees. It would be nice if you could be compatible with the people that were already there. I think that you wouldn't have a problem doing it.

Okay, going back to the other side, is this open to the public, this little walkway, or is that this grass area, or did you fence that in too? No, it would be open to the public. Okay, so then your fences start at lot 15, it goes across. Yes. Going back to all your trees, I do like the idea, but One of the things I thought I heard you say, it's kind of up to the homeowner. So if the homeowner wanted to clear cut it, could that be possible?

I just want to hear you say, and it is in writing, that you're not doing a clear cut. Right. Okay. I just still have problems with one through five. You know, you know that. So anyway, if there was any way that you could work it and just increase the lot size to be compatible with the other ones and be compatible with the gene estates, that'd be much appreciated. And I appreciate your time, both of you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

All right, I have a few questions for you. I appreciate you not clear-cutting the lot. I do appreciate you working with the neighbors to the north on their fences and honoring the request to, if their HOA says it's an eight-foot fence that we honor, I'm sure you can't get back there to go look at them, and you did the best you could, and taking out the barbed wire. I'm sure everybody will appreciate that and helping them build those fences out to your fence line. I do have a problem with the fences next to the bus parking lot and the tennis courts. Lights, what kind of eight foot fence are you

Okay. You're planning an iron fence along opposite lots one through two. Okay. which is open to a parking lot, and that's a six-foot fence. I get that you're going to landscape it, but again, it's open to a parking lot in a gated community. I probably don't want people jumping over the iron fence. So, I mean, have you considered, I get why, but I'm not looking into something that's, you know, I wouldn't have a problem with a, your masonry wall there because I've got a parking lot on the other side. So just something to consider.

I think security and privacy probably would appreciate someone at the price point you're putting in there, because there's not something nice to look at on the other side. I get the iron fence next to the open space by the church and Gina States, right? But to follow on with Dr. Scott, on lot 15 and 16, you're going to put the fence and you're going to put a sidewalk, but are you going to put... Is there a gate or something to that sidewalk that blocks it into the neighbors? Because I'm, again, gated on the front side. I'm at a parking lot at school events and all. Is there a gate or something

And I'm sure that's an HOA thing, but, you know, I don't know if that's something you need to put into your PD to state whether that would be an HOA. Yes, you know, you know I'm park and rec. I'm out walking the trails all the time. I like that it's going to connect to a trail. I'm sure that others would, but the proximity to other events to me just seems like I would value safety and security over anybody being able to walk into that. Having the open space is nice and open on there, but if I was in lot 15, I don't know that I would want that open too.

So, you know, I like the trees. I'd rather you put in nice quality trees. I'm sure you're going to leave that up to the builders. I do like the neighbors, you know, asking you to consider what they have, but I'd rather you put in nice quality trees than just sticking in and saying I'm going to put in, you know, 10 trees and they all, you know.

Or not. And I know that you've done that on other projects, so I know that you value putting Quality items in there. So my last question for you is the lot coverage, that you're not meeting the 30-50 but asking for 40-60. That seems especially high, especially to Dr. Scott's concern on some of the smaller lots. What are you anticipating, and can you meet the 30-50?

I could give you the 30 if you give me the 50. The 60%... especially on those smaller lots, seems excessive, especially since the city doesn't count pools or things like that.

All right, thank you. With that, Commissioner Johnson.

Hit the wrong button, sorry. Thank you, Chairman. I do share some of the concerns that's been mentioned. I'll try and touch on some that we haven't fully talked about. I do want to hit on, I'm with Dr. Scott on those one through five. I would rather see one lot go away and kind of spread that out a little bit more so it's more equal to, if we're going to go down to 32 versus the 36, because most of the other lots are within that 32, to touch on that. I do see where the iron fence was at first. I was thinking, Erin, that's masonry, but it does turn iron behind that. So I don't know. It is backi

Thank you. So it's actually not been, I don't think it's been brought up yet, but when I saw this proposal, all I could do is stare at that gigantic bus parking lot and the lot's right behind it. And I mean, it's free market economy. I would never would I ever buy a house that backed up to a bus parking lot. But I'm also, and I'm not a big environmentalist like my counterpart here, but also I'm just worried. I think there's like 40 buses that park in that lot. And when they fire them up in the morning, And if the winds are from the south, I mean, I don't know if they can smell diesel exhaust u

Yeah, I mean, obviously I think the fencing takes care of that. I mean, yeah, it's just, to me, I'm like, my initial reaction to this was like, I don't think, like, I don't know that I would support this getting built because I think that, like, it's proximity that is just so strange to me. I don't think that's, as I studied it, that's not my position that I'm like a no on the whole project, but I just think it's very, I don't know. I mean, y'all got to sell it. Someone wants to live in Keller bad enough, I guess they'll have a yard that smells like diesel exhaust, but.

I already got my spot over another part of North Calgary. We're not leaving. It's just strange to me. It would be like a... 3,600 square foot lot backing up to a Walmart parking lot like that. It's just like, you just don't see it. It's very strange to me. But I get your, the lot is what it is. The school district doesn't want to sell their bus parking lot. So, I mean, and they just built those tennis courts on the last bond that got passed in town. So, they're not tearing down their tennis courts. That's really it. It seems like there wasn't a lot of thought in there because it's just a reali

Thank you. Thank you again. I'm 100% against what you want to do in one through five. I did the math. If you were to take away six and add 6,000 square feet to each one of those, that would make them one through five, 34,000 square feet. To me, that makes it more reasonable, and it goes along with what it is in the gene estates, close to 36,000 square feet. And that's my, how do I say that, proposal. Thank you.

Thank you, Dr. Scott. Commissioner Schlegel?

Thank you. Yeah, unique shape property for sure, right? So I know that was a lot of work. I just want to commend both parties for being so collaborative. I think that's really refreshing. You've got to get this through council, right? So if it makes sense to remove one of these 22 homes and make them all closer to 36,000 feet, that's going to be a decision you and your team will have to make, right? But provided that you can accommodate these basic requests, to make their backyards right, I think you're all doing the right thing. Again, you've got to get it through council and you know them as

Absolutely All right, I see that we have a motion on the table Motion to approve e3 Second all right, so any other comments All right, we appreciate you listening and your attention to the comments provided to you. So let's take a vote. I All right, that passes 4 to 1. You will be before city council on October 20th. All right, item E4 is a public hearing to consider a request for the future land use plan amendment from semi public and low density. single family to medium density single families for 20.93 acres, legally described as lot one, block three of Keller High School subdivision locate

All right, so this is a public hearing. Anybody wishing to speak on this, this is your opportunity. Seeing none, we have a motion to close.

I have a motion to close the public hearing.

Thank you. Commissioner Lice? Second. All right. All in favor, please take a vote. All right. That passes. So are there any comments? This is an opportunity to present for the Flop amendment. We have a motion.

We're not going to have public knowledge on this, and we're not going to talk to anybody. We're just voting on it ourselves now.

No one came up during the public hearing. Okay, public hearing. No, that's all right. Thank you. All right. We'll vote. All right, that passes. All right, this will also go before City Council on October 20th. We are a recommending body. You have another opportunity to be persons to be heard at the City Council meeting on October 20th. So please make sure that the City Council hears your vote and your concerns and comments so they will hear this on October 20th. With that, do I have a motion to adjourn?

We don't need one, but motion to adjourn.