Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Will you both meet? Good evening. I'd like to call the meeting of the Planning Commission of September 14th to order. First off, we'll pledge the flag. If I could get people to rise, so we'll.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. With that, I'll do a roll call. Commissioner Harbaugh? Here. Commissioner Roach? Commissioner Havel? Here. And Commissioner Tiernan is here. Have we heard from Grinke or Stuckenbroker?

OK. The first item before us, I think I have called it to order. So approval of the final agenda. Can I get a motion? I'll take that a second. Okay. We'll vote on it. So Commissioner Havel? Aye. Commissioner Roach? Aye. Commissioner Haber?

And then Commissioner Tiernan is an aye as well. So we have on our agenda public comment, and that would be for anything other than 200 San Marin Drive, if somebody wants to approach the Planning Commission. OK, if not, we'll move on. So we do have one thing on our consent calendar. I was not in attendance at that meeting, so I will be abstaining from it. But I will entertain a motion to approve those minutes or to amend them if need be. So moved. Yeah. Second. Okay.

All right. Any discussion? Are we okay? No, it's fine. Okay. We'll vote on the motion. Commissioner Havel? Aye. Commissioner Roach? Aye. Commissioner Harroff? Aye. Okay. And then I am staining. So we have a relatively new commissioner, Ken Harroff. Do you want to say something to the public? Welcome to the Planning Commission.

Yeah, I can very briefly. This is actually my second meeting, but the first one was so long ago, I can't even really remember it. We've not been that busy lately. Anyway, my name is Kevin Haroff. I'm a three-year resident of Novato. having moved from Larkspur and the Greenbrae neighborhood down there. I'm an attorney. My practice is getting wound up a little bit now that I'm 72. So I don't have to work as hard as I used to. At least that's good. While in Larkspur, I was also on the planning commission for the city of Larkspur for two years, I think. And after that, for eight years, I was on th

For now. I appreciate that. Welcome. So the next item on us is unfinished or other business in which we have none. So we're up to the public hearing tonight. This would be 200 San Marin Drive residences. I think Senior Planner Zitelli is going to present this.

Excellent. So let me first poll the commission, see if they have any questions about the report or what you just said. Anything? Are you okay? We're all okay. Okay, so before we get on with the public hearing, this is a good time to announce if we've made site visits or had any interaction with any of the principals. I have visited this site. I walked it this weekend, as well as previous times. And I did meet the applicant, at least one of them, I think a couple months ago at a social function. Didn't talk about the project per se, but I did meet the individual.

Well, if we can get the applicant to come up and tell us about your project, please.

Thank you. Is that the extent of your presentation? Good. OK. So commissioners, do we have questions of the applicant of what just got presented to us? Yes. Commissioner Roach, somebody you could approach?

So I have a, for either of you, I have a question in regards if we could go back to the slide that shows the entrance on the San Marin Drive. The actual picture if you could go forward once if I could look on the top left Is that the entrance on the San Marin Drive for that townhome?

OK, there you go. Sure. Got it. Thank you. Then if we could go back to the, I'll call it the fourplex, the four squares, we could shoot back there. The plan? Yes, please. Thank you. Not to Go back a little bit. Sure.

Okay Thank you right there Okay, so Please help me out if you could I'm looking at the south west corner And if I see the sidewalk For the Townhome there and Does that go in? I'm missing it. That is a door going into the residence, or where does that sidewalk lead? Do you see what I'm talking about?

Sure, point. Yeah, go ahead. Are we talking about? Correct. Not that one, but correct, right there. Yes.

Great, thank you. Got it. And then relative to the northwest corner, the smaller of the eight town homes, was there any discussion at any point in time with the city relative to the potential changes? And this might be more of a city question that I'll come to you on, but as the idea of the San Marin Drive redo gains momentum, I don't know what type of infrastructure is underneath that curve, if there is any at all. And this is a hypothetical, but was it ever discussed or was the conversation bridged of, hey, what if we make that a hard right turn at this point in time and make that townhome t

OK. Those are my initial questions. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Commissioner Harroff? I don't have any questions at this time.

Perhaps I do have a question for you, Jeff. So in light of the design of most of San Marín being re-sawn, and I'm not exactly sure the architecture style, but why did we choose to go to Mediterranean versus what's largely out there?

I see. I see. OK, did you want to elaborate?

I see. I see. OK. And now my understanding that we're going to underground some of the utilities, but once you need authorization or approval from the city before, the PG&E will talk to you about that.

That sounds a little frustrating. So it is currently in that island, right? The power pole?

And so what you're suggesting is that it just come from the current pole underground into your property?

Thank you. Does that mean I'm kind of familiar with the intersection, but the power poles that you're talking about, are you stating that there would be Two then, one on either side of the driveway, is that correct?

That will also tie into the one in the intersection? Yes. Okay, I gotcha.

Good luck with PG&E. Thank you. OK. Unless there's something else, we'll move on to the public hearing. Fair enough? OK. OK. With that, I will open the public hearing. I do have one card. And I would request that if members of the public want to come and talk to us, fill out a card so that we get the record straight of who the speakers are. So with that, Susan Wiernick.

Thank you. I see we have another person approaching the microphone. Yeah, welcome, sir.

Thank you much. So if there's anybody else from the public that wishes to talk to us about 200 San Bernardino Drive, this is your opportunity. With that, the public hearing is closed. Bring it back to the Planning Commission. Commissioners? Questions?

Yeah. This will be for the city. Garbage pickup. How are we going to address that? Will there be Sunday night, no parking, Monday 6 AM to Monday noon? Because if you have the trash bins, They need a place to go for the garbage truck to be able to load it up. Or will that garbage truck have the capacity to be going down the private road? I'm not quite sure what else to call it.

Okay. I was kind of concerned about the logistics on that one. Appreciate that. No problem. That was one of the concerns. Then I was wondering about, okay, so we put in a stop sign on the curve, correct?

And then with that said, if we're looking at that right now, oftentimes when I live nearby, and if you look closely in between where that car is parked, closest to the property, and the people walking, believe it or not, you have cars moving into that, parked into the entrance of that curb is where I'm going with this. So you may want to consider having no parking from this spot to some other spot. I don't know, but it's something to raise awareness on so that individuals don't think that it would be okay to park the car up next to the stop sign or something along those lines so it becomes pro

Commissioner Harroff, any comments or questions?

I just wanted to follow up on the public comment about the architectural compatibility of the design of this project with the surrounding neighborhoods, because it does look like it's kind of incompatible. So I was curious to know what both the applicant and staff thought about or how we all got to the point where that particular design approach was adopted.

And you had a slide, I think, showing some of the alternatives.

OK, and can maybe elaborate a little bit about what you understood the considerations for adopting this particular approach were at that level?

Are there any other properties that have a similar look and feel to this project?

OK. Any other sense in terms of what the public interest would be and how this would look? Any other feedback you've received?

So yeah, this is one of those projects like someday somebody's going to look at it and go, whoa, how'd that happen? So I think we can agree on that, whether it's this architectural style or another architectural style. We've got a 37-foot vertical surface on the street. How tall you all think these roofs are or this ceiling is? What is that? 15 feet maybe? 20?

All right. So tack another 15 onto the top of that. So just call it twice this. So you're a pedestrian walking your kid to San Ramon. Hey, Johnny, let's go to school today. You're looking up. 37 feet. That's huge. That's massive. What's the nearest, highest building to this? I mean, that's taller than Harvest Market. So this thing's going to stand out. I'm sorry, I'm not going to call it a sore thumb, but it's going to stand out. It's going to be distinctive. I mean, however you want to market it, it's going to be bold. It's going to make a statement. Yep. So the question is, what kind of stat

So if we're talking about height, what is the setback from the sidewalk to the building? Eight feet?

Kind of find a plan that gives us the full... But the point being, it's not literally next to the sidewalk.

Got it. And for the record, there are roofs that mimic on San Andreas across the street from that. Also, yeah, you could call it a I wouldn't call it a sore thumb, and I don't think it's a middle finger to the neighborhood either. I welcome this. I think this type of design is warranted at that corner. You take a look across the street at the office building that's basically empty, the one-story piece. Nothing's going on there. It's the aesthetic that might be disconcerting to people. It's also the aesthetic that is part of the challenge and the fun. And if we'd look hard at the town homes tha

So let me pose a what if to staff. So one of our resolutions is to approve the design review if, for whatever reasons, let's say it's deadlocks. What does that trigger?

So Okay, so assuming other approvals happen, it could be an isolated item that just that gets dealt with.

So it wouldn't preclude them from going forward, for example, with PG&E and saying, yes, we have an approved project. Let's deal with utilities.

And I will say that I am not really comfortable stepping into the role of design review. I mean, that's why we have that committee and have them do the role that they do. The game has changed somewhat in that there's those styles the objective standards that become the sort of templates of the styles are getting around in and I have done I think Planner Zatelli had said that California whatever the California ranch the style that is not one of the six is there's actually other styles that have been articulated and So let's assume we deadlock and design review says, you know what? Tough luck. W

So was that the Craftsman style is one of the six styles?

Is there any priority in terms of what type of roofing they would like to see?

Okay, any further discussion? I would throw one other option out there.

Well, I had a few more questions. Oh, I'm sorry. Let's proceed with, and we'll get to you.

So I'm curious, so Design Review seems like they're asleep at the wheel as far as massing and community character goes, but I'm curious to know what the school district thinks of it. I see that Mr. Nell is in the audience, and I don't know if he's willing to speak to this. But this is a huge departure from the prevailing massing community character, architectural styles in the community, size and scale. So I mean, you're not compelled to come up and speak, Mr. Nell. But I am genuinely curious what the school district has to think. Have you received any comments from the school district? I have

It looks like they had lopped a story off of the design.

Indeed. I think at this point, I'm ready to take action. Oh, excuse me. I did want to hear from the applicant. So you've heard us bounce around design review and looking for alternatives and what have you.

Okay, so hold the line. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you So I guess my question is I don't know if this is for you or for you Steve We don't want to slow down a process and we don't want to have property sitting the way it is for another 40 years and Does this conversation about the architectural nuance of the buildings themselves slow down the process of going forward with the project?

detailed elevations They'd have to go back and do the same for a different architectural style and that will take time And I think you had suggested that if we continued that one aspect of this that perhaps it could be just done through the Planning Commission and then off to the City Council I

and say, come back to us in 30 days with a craftsman.

But then, yeah, leave it up to the council to deal with this item.

CHRISTOPHER COLEMAN- Well, let's talk about this a little bit. Tudor would look ridiculous. Victorian doesn't fit. Main Street, it's not the Main Street. I mean, it's San Maran. But Craftsman, I think, would be too heavy. So it leaves us with Mediterranean contemporary. Yeah. And contemporary and Mediterranean are kind of similar. Again, my concern is mass and bulk, overall visual prominence. So what if we had a condition or a modification that took white off the table and replaced it with a more earth-toned siding color?

Meaning remaining all that is and getting a different tone. to create a better visual aesthetic.

Because right now, and this is for our commission to decide. So we can make that condition. The city council can always reverse it if they think it's ridiculous. But that's a modification that we

Okay, so taking with his suggestion, so in that design review resolution, we would suggest using some different aspects.

I don't necessarily know if we need his opinion.

No, I see the dilemma. Paint color is the easy change, for sure. No, no. And I think you're going the right route. If that's what you're being directed through other bodies that are appointed by the city, I get that. But at the same time, everybody's got a slightly different take. I mean, I don't want them doing land use, per se, any more than I think they want us deciding what colors go on buildings. Nonetheless, we have a resolution in front of us that says, you know, one way or the other, we're supposed to address design review. Yeah, Commissioner Roach.

If there's a nuance to the color, which is part of the compromise, which is why we're here in the first place, take the when. Seriously, that's an opening that I'd like to... seriously consider. As long as that doesn't begin to throw cogs in the wheel of the process that's already moving forward.

Yes. OK. So let's have Commissioner Havell weigh in on that. You've got an opinion?

Let's just get this, like, the commission just needs to make a decision on this. This isn't bartering. This is not a negotiation. We're having a hearing, and we just need to make a motion.

Well, here's what I suggest. We have, I think, six resolutions before us, or five, that we work our way through these resolutions when we get to design review, if we need to put a stop sign up for further considerations or amendments. So again, let me ask questions or further discussion before we move forward with action. I think we're in a place. So the first resolution for us would be the general plan amendment. Is that accurate? That is correct. So I would entertain a motion whether to recommend to the city council the general plan draft amendment as presented.

OK. We got a second. OK. Any discussion on that motion? No. OK. I will make a couple of comments. I was part of this commission that approved the work lofts that were there previously, and I supported them. It's really unfortunate that that project has moved on. But that was many years ago, and it did move on. I see it as an infill site. And so as much as I think it's good for us to try and modify some of the design, I am very uncomfortable stepping into the role of a design review committee. I think otherwise I'm going to be able to support these things. So at any rate, we have a motion on th

Commissioner Havel? Aye. Commissioner Roche?

Aye. Commissioner Haroff? Aye. And Commissioner Tiernan's an aye. So master plan PDP resolution. That's our third resolution regarding this. Again, this is part of the, I believe, SB 10. Can I get a motion to approve or to at least recommend to the city council? I will move to approve. OK.

I'll second that. OK. Just to clarify, it's a recommendation to the council.

These are all recommendations of city council. Yeah, we do not have the ultimate authority here at all. OK. So Commissioner Havel? Aye. Aye. Commissioner Harroff? Aye. And Commissioner Tiernanton, aye. So here's the one we want to talk a little bit about. So the floor is open to accept a motion to recommend the city council design review resolution on this project.

So I'd like to make a motion to the City Council that they adopt The design review approval with a modification that the citing colors and Treatments are of a darker earth toned nature Do I hear a second

OK, we got a second on that. OK, further discussion.

OK, so the motion before us is to approve the resolution but recommend to the city council further dark colors or more earth tones. Is that accurate? That is correct. OK, I'll take the vote.

Just to clarify, to recommend their consideration of that. Correct.

Right, right. Yeah, we're not specific that it would be burnt orange or that they'd make that decision. Commissioner Havel? Aye. Commissioner Rosch? Aye. Commissioner Haroff? Aye. And Commissioner Tiernan is an aye. So then we still have, and this is the undergrounding, the VTM. Is that correct?

Correct. OK, so we have another resolution before us.

It's identified as VTM resolution. I need a motion. I do believe that concludes this action before us. That's correct. When might it, for the public's edification, might this go to the City Council? i believe we're looking at an october late october date uh but we will send out notices again before that hearing so the community will know the exact date of that okay okay i appreciate that um with that we're up to general business um thank you um i i would like to hear the current status of our fireman fund project and where we go from there

Okay. Anything else you want to share with the planning commission?

And I know you sent around a planning commissioner's sort of seminar or workshop for county stuff. Is that happening?

September 30th, and we need the RSVP by the 18th.

Okay, I think I already expressed interest in it, so I don't know, but I'll follow up.

Well, we've been asked to RSVP by the 18th. Of this month? For the 30th.

Also, I'm disappointed Derby left before we could soak them down at Finnegan's.

Well, enjoy. Thank you. Okay. With that, the meeting is adjourned. Thank you.