City Council - Regular Meeting

Well, good morning, everyone, and welcome to City Council Chambers. We are ready to get started. Ms. Bryan?

Happy Hispanic Heritage Month to everybody. Welcome to City Council. Today I'm going to read this proclamation in Spanish for El Salvador.

Very good. Felicidades on the 205th anniversary of El Salvador's Independence Day. Congratulations.

Thank you, Mayor. And if the firefighters can make their way up. Thank you, Chief. What a privilege to read this today. Whereas the Insurance Services Office ISO has awarded the city a class one public protections classification recognizing the city's commitment to excellence in fire protection, emergency response and community safety and whereas A class one ISO rating is the highest classification awarded and reflects the exceptional performance of the city's fire department, emergency communication system and water distribution infrastructure. And whereas the prestigious designation demonstr

Well, Chief, congratulations to you and the entire team. And as Deborah said, receiving an ISO rating is one thing, but maintaining it is another. And all the audits and things that you guys have to go through to continue to have the highest level of ISO rating. You make El Paso proud. We know that this isn't something easy to achieve. And, you know, and again, as she said, maintaining it is something that we have to keep doing. I do want you to take one moment to tell us about the new rig that we saw on 9-11.

WELL, MY FRIEND, CONGRATULATIONS ON THE COUNCIL. AND YOU SAID SOMETHING RIGHT NOW, WE ARE ACTUALLY LUCKY TO HAVE YOU AS OUR COUNCIL. SO THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT YOU DO. YOU DO SO MUCH. YOU DO SO MUCH. AND YOU REPRESENT MEXICO AND YOU DO SUCH A GOOD JOB IN OUR COMMUNITY. AND EVERYWHERE I GO THROUGHOUT MEXICO, EVERYONE KNOWS YOU. Congratulations on this day. We're glad to be celebrating it with you. Congratulations.

Just leave it right there. I'd be happy to.

Thank you, Mayor. We could have the honorees come up to the podium. It's an honor to read today's proclamation. Perfect. So proclamation for the city of El Paso, Texas. Whereas there are over 61 million people with disabilities of all ages living in communities throughout the United States. And whereas there are over 38 million Americans with disabilities who are eligible voters. And whereas the disability community has a critical interest in policies and decisions made and enacted at local, state, and national levels that impact our lives directly. Whereas making sure people with disabilities

Good morning, everyone. It's good to see you guys again. And as you mentioned already, the right to vote belongs to every eligible citizen. And a disability should not determine whether or not someone should be able to enter a polling place and cast the ballot. So accessibility is your right, and we will continue to make sure we do that. I love that rev up. I absolutely love it. And I love the way Representative Nino read that. So rev up and congratulations on your day, you guys. Thank you. Thank you.

Now the mayor has suggested that we read the proclamation, then we go outside and take pictures in front of the car, if you all don't mind. Mayor, thank you for allowing me to read this. When I was outside speaking to a couple of gentlemen, we were all outside taking pictures with the cars and the mascots, when a gentleman came up to me and said, you know, at one time we were all against each other, and today we're here working together. And Mayor, this is a prime example of our community comes together and works together. This first paragraph puts everything into perspective. Thank you for al

Well, my friend, you said it best. And you guys do matter. And we thank you for all that you do for our community. You do so much that people don't even know. Turkey drives, toy drives. I could go on and on and on. but today we're celebrating you and we are so proud of the lowrider scene here in el paso and as you can see i think we have one of our drones up that are taking live shots of the cars and everything so we're excited to be celebrating this with you today And there's a huge, huge crowd behind you that's celebrating. And at this time, I'd like for those that would like to, we're going

And before we begin, Ms. Prine, I just want to read a quick statement. And again, as Ms. Prine indicated, public comment is now open. Each speaker will have the time allotted under the rules of order. Please keep your remarks within permitted time and maintain civility and decorum as required by our public comment conduct policy. Thank you. Ms. Prine?

No, sir. It's going to be to your left. Oh, OK. There you go, to your left. It should show up here in a second. There you go.

Ms. Pryor, let's move on and we'll bring her back.

Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Ms. Prine. I make a motion to approve the consent agenda with the following revisions. Page six, item 19, revised per the city attorney's office.

Page 7, item 21, revised per city attorney's office.

Page eight, item 25, revised per Representative Canales.

Page eight, item 26, revised per Representative Canales.

Okay, we have a motion. Is there a second? Second. All right, Representative Rocha.

Thank you, Mayor. I make a motion to pull item seven from the consent agenda to the regular agenda, please, for discussion. Second.

There's a motion and a second. OK. Mr. Ryan, we have public comment.

Okay. So we had a motion and a second with the revisions. Representative Chavez.

Thank you, Mayor. I'd like to also request to move item 16 to the regular agenda. I have a couple questions on it.

Okay, with those revisions, Ms. Ryan, call for the vote.

Let's take it, yeah, item seven, then we'll take number 16.

All right, so we can get the item on the floor. Is there a motion to approve? Motion to approve. Is there a second? Okay, Representative Rocha.

Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, Nicole, and thank you, Council, for allowing me to pull it to the regular agenda. I think it's really important to understand that also we have an increase in average first-time homebuyers as far as age goes. It used to be 28, and I think we're sitting more about 39, 40 years old. is what I'm understanding. And currently, it looks like the market, according to a discussion with the Greater El Paso Association of Realtors, is that people don't want big homes anymore. They want smaller homes. They want smaller yards. They want xeriscape landscaping. And since we

Thank you for that clarification. Actually, that was going to be my follow up question regarding that housing strategy. And the reason that I asked for the distinction between home where I asked that question was because there was a member of the community that reached out to redesignate the money over to home. But I wanted to be sure that they were included in that. Hopefully, if they're watching, they'll be able to understand that they are part of that. So thank you. Thank you, Mayor.

Representative Nino. Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, Nicole, and Ms. Mack. I know that we've had a lot of numerous conversations when it comes to affordability and ensuring that individuals reach home ownership to build that generational wealth has been a key advocacy for me. Even last year, I did make a request about the first-time homebuyer program, and I know I've had, again, many numerous conversations with you. You mentioned that the last grant or award we did was in 2021, is that correct? That's correct. But we didn't close applications until 2025, is that correct? And how many applications were we receiving annually?

Yeah, and I know that this specific fund is very restrictive, like even how you shared the example of there could be very limited improvements to the home, right? Because I know that there was some homes that I was looking at just to try to understand the program even further. There's homes that are listed for $150,000, $200,000, but they don't have anything inside the home pretty much. It's just the actual structure itself. So I know that there's very limitations of how to essentially be able to be part of this program as well. I know that we also had a, I mean, I'm grateful that you reached

Nicole, I didn't get a chance to get briefed on this, so I have a few questions. How many affordable units are expected to be developed from this?

OK. What what program modifications were considered as far as increasing or assistance?

Can you have the discussion item number 7.

OK. Ms. Frank, go ahead and call for the vote, please.

Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Joaquin. And thank you, Nick. The only reason why I pulled this is because the change order that's in the backup, Joaquin, says that the substantial completion date is 8-12-26. And then the presentation said that the completion date was going to be September 21st. So I just saw a discrepancy there and wanted to get clarification on that.

So maybe this is just a typo or maybe it was initially thought to be completed previously but it has not been done.

Okay, thank you for that clarity. One of the sheets says 8.12 and then the next one says the completion is 9.11. So there was just a little bit of confusion on my end there. Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it.

Okay, any other questions on item 16? I don't believe we have public comment, Ms. Frey.

Okay, I believe that brings us to the first reading of the ordinances.

There's a motion, is there a second? Second. Okay. Ms. Pryor?

She's, okay. I don't see Ms. Turner. Okay, Ms. Frank, call for the vote.

Okay, Ms. Bryant, let's take item number 20, please.

Okay, motion and second. You have a quick presentation, I see. I do.

KEN HOWARD JR.: OK. Any questions on item number 20? Ms. Ryan, we have public comment.

Okay. Council, if there's no objection, we've got members of the public and members of the media that are waiting on item 25 and 26. Are you okay if we move those up? Okay. Ms. Ryan, let's take item number 25.

REPRESENTATIVE CANALES, I'LL BRING YOU BACK. MAYBE THE CHIEF OR THE SERGEANT, JUST FOR THE PUBLIC, HOW MANY CAMERAS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? 150. 150? OKAY. REPRESENTATIVE FIERRO.

THANK YOU, MAYOR. Thank you chief. My first question was the question that representative can always ask is is 60 days the contract says X and we're saying 60 days does that You know, is that enough time? But but I think you had Thank You miss Mac you answer that question for us my second question to have it for both number 26 and 27 I'm sorry 25 and 26 is miss Mac and steaming and

No, I understand that. The question was for both.

Representative Acevedo. Thank you, Mayor.

So we've been talking about this for the last six months now, and I think there's been a lot of Heartburn and anxiety from the public on flock and overall I do feel that the the police department we went through one of the simulations about six months ago on how flock was being used and the guardrails that the police department put in and how 50 people had access to flock overall so In the time that we've been using Flock, I don't think there's been an egregious situation where people that shouldn't have been accessing the system came in and did something, right, Chief? Correct. Okay. And so o

Just a couple of questions, and this may not be for you, Chief, but thank you so much. And I fully support the item to remove them. They're not working. They're not functioning as far as we know today. But Ms. Mack? Per the contract and just real quick because I know that we've referenced it a little bit In the contract there's section 10.1 that says it provides that the city may not remove reposition reinstall tamper with alter adjust or otherwise take possession or control of flock hardware except as otherwise expressly permitted by the agreement and In regards to that, Ms. Mack, by any chan

If it's a breach in contract, let's say, is there a penalty that's associated with that within the contract?

OK. So it would be submitted, you think, to the city as a claim?

OK. Thank you. And this may be for you, Ms. Mack. Have you at this point been able to assess, let's say we bring in this third party vendor, what is the cost to the taxpayer to remove these cameras if FLOC does not respond or remove them themselves?

So in the interim, let's say flock doesn't respond and the city has to go and remove them themselves. We know that that's not part of what's included within the contract. where with the money come from in the budget. The money would have to come from contingency to be able to do this. Thank you miss Mac I appreciate it.

I'm grateful for the different questions that have been asked, and thank you, Chief, for always having that open communication. I know that I've asked numerous questions for the past year. I think it's also important to highlight that we're only talking about city right of way. There's multiple other devices that are installed in other areas, like Home Depot, for example, that we have absolutely no jurisdiction over, right? Correct. And I'm also grateful for the different concerns that were shared by the council in regards to ensuring that there's guardrails and protections for our community.

So we never entered into a new agreement. Now there was a letter sent to flock notifying that we will not be using their services. When was that letter sent?

On the 4th. And I know that the question was asked of what is the determination or definition when a commercially reasonable time period, and I know that that's a trick question, but is there statute or any determination as to when an equipment can become abandoned?

Okay. Yeah, I think it would be good to look at what we could determine as an abandoned, right? The reason I ask this is because, say that 60 days pass and then we start removing the equipment, what happens with the equipment? Do we take possession of that equipment? What are the next steps? Or do we turn that equipment back to flock? I'm curious to know as to what are we going to be doing with that equipment and what liability do we have when we start removing this equipment?

Okay, yeah, I think I really want to understand that definition of the time period, and I know that it's very difficult to make that determination, but I do think that if 60 days pass and say that we weren't able to remove them, but a year passed, at what time period are we saying they've abandoned their equipment and now they belong to the city? It's like when you have a lease, right, and you're renting something to an individual and you're using your property, you could give them a notice to vacate within a certain time period, otherwise they really abandon their property. Okay, I have no fu

Okay, there's a motion and a second. Okay, comments on the amendment? Okay, Ms. Bryant?

Thank you, Mayor. And thank you, Ms. Mack, for clarification on if there would be a cost associated with removing these cameras, if I could get an update on how much the cost would be, just so that I have that information, if it comes to it. Thank you. Chief, you put out a statement publicly. I'm sure most of us have already read it. I'm just going to read the last sentence of it, and I want you to expand a little bit on this statement, if you could. It says, the El Paso Police Department remains committed to providing efficient, transparent law enforcement while protecting civil liberties and

I appreciate the fact that you did put out a statement to the community because I think it's important that we hear directly from you as the leader of the police department. Could you maybe expand on that a little bit?

Yes, and of course, I think we can all agree that safety is a priority for all of us in our community. So we thank you for that statement again. Chief, I think it's important for the community to know, I think Representative Nino touched on this a little bit, that there are cameras already placed shopping centers and in other areas of our community that are not related to the cameras that we're talking about today that we're discussing today just just to make sure that we're clear on on who's operating what cameras do you know of any other law enforcement agency in our community that has camer

Are there any federal agencies currently operating cameras in our city?

Okay. Thank you, Chief. I appreciate it.

Okay, thank you, Chief. Ms. Friant, let's take public comment, please.

Okay, Chief, do you mind coming up one more time? So a question was asked by a member of the public. How would this affect response times?

Okay. All right, thank you. Okay, Ms. Bryan, call for the vote, please.

Okay, great. Ms. Bryan, let's take item number 26, please.

OK. Representative Canales, is there a motion? I move to approve. OK. OK. Representative Canales.

I just wanted to add that right now we're in an interesting moment as a society with AI really accelerating really quickly. And I feel that we need to have more regulations, more laws at the federal level, state level, and seeing how we could do things from the local level as well. I think from everything that Rep. Canales just mentioned, I just want to plus one. I was going to talk about the scientific poll, so I'm glad that you did that. But also as an organization, I think we have some lessons that we've learned from this particular contract. Miss Neiman specifically, I think there were que

OK. And so you would bring back, that would come back in 30 days, and that would be a binding resolution, correct?

But that would have to be through a vote, correct? Correct. Okay. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Mayor. Can Chief Pacillas please come to the microphone again? Thank you, Chief. And I want to start by saying that I know that this is a very important topic for our community that people feel differently about, right? But before we take a vote, I just want you to maybe go through the data of what this technology has helped your department with.

And I think all of us in some way or fashion, we use technology to facilitate our lives a little better for different purposes, right? Some use it at home, some use it with their personal devices. Your department uses it as well. Chief, they talked about response times, but I think you were talking more about solving crimes specifically. Has this technology facilitated your ability to solve crimes quicker?

And I want to talk a little bit about that, Chief, because as elected officials, we're elected to create policies, but we're also elected to provide solutions to the community and to provide solutions to the departments that run the city of El Paso. And so I... I I will be supporting this item today but I do think that we need to think of what the solution is going to be and if your department's not already tracking the data to see how quickly you solve crimes I think you need to start tracking the data to see a before and after picture of what you were doing before this technology was removed

Yes, and hopefully there'll be something else in the future that we can rely on that doesn't create so much controversy. Yes, ma'am. We hope. Thank you.

THANK YOU, MAYOR. THANK YOU, MAYOR. CHIEF, YOU AND YOUR DEPARTMENT CHIEF, YOU AND YOUR DEPARTMENT CHIEF, YOU AND YOUR DEPARTMENT PUT TOGETHER SOME, WE'VE GONE PUT TOGETHER SOME, WE'VE GONE PUT TOGETHER SOME, WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS OVER AND OVER FROM THE THROUGH THIS OVER AND OVER FROM THE THROUGH THIS OVER AND OVER FROM THE DIAS.

YOUR DEPARTMENT HAVE GONE YOUR DEPARTMENT HAVE GONE YOUR DEPARTMENT HAVE GONE THROUGH GUARD RAILS. THROUGH GUARD RAILS. THROUGH GUARD RAILS. YOUR DEPARTMENT HAVE COME BACK YOUR DEPARTMENT HAVE COME BACK YOUR DEPARTMENT HAVE COME BACK WITH THIS IS HOW WE'RE GOING TO WITH THIS IS HOW WE'RE GOING Has your department received any accusations of misuse from the public? Not that I'm aware of. You mentioned something just a minute ago about excluding, that this council is going to be excluding all of the vendors. Ms. Mack, is that what this resolution is going to read? Yes. So there's no other, even

Is that correct to smack this even OK so it's not forever, I mean this is just unless Council pre approves it. We're not going to use any of these technology.

Let's let let's ask has to sponsor trip is in canals.

Okay. Representative Fierro? Ms. Mack, with that clarification, that's not excluding Axion or other companies moving forward. That's how I understand it.

Without council's approval. That's correct. Yes. Thank you. OK.

Okay, before we take public comment, any other comments from council? Chief, go ahead.

Thank you, Mayor. Chief, so what is the solution then, in your opinion, in your expert opinion? Because public safety, as I mentioned, is extremely important to our community. We want to continue to support the department. I think all of us are aware that this is a very divisive topic right now. People want to protect their civil liberties. You said it in your statement to the public that you also want to protect people's civil liberties. So what is the path forward?

Thank you Chief. I'd like to ask Representative Canales a question. So in your agenda item where it says unless otherwise directed by subsequent action does that mean Representative Canales that we would have to ask the CM or the chief that we are intentionally wanting to enter into a contract for ALPR. Otherwise it shouldn't be proposed to us at all.

But if there was a grant opportunity in the future, then you're saying it shouldn't come before us, that it would have to be initiated by us, not initiated by any other city department. Is that correct?

Okay. I know you mentioned Flock, and then you put any other provider for the acquisition, because you want to make sure we encompass all types of providers for ALPRs, is that correct?

Not necessarily the brand. Okay, thank you.

Okay, and Chief, I just want to say, First of all, to your men and women in uniform, thank you. We are one of the safest cities in the nation. And I spoke to you just yesterday. I was in another state where you guys are the role model of what you do. And I can tell you that most El Pasoans are very appreciative of what you guys do. Thank you. Anytime you're a victim of crime, And anyone in this room, if they've lost a loved one or been in an accident or had that knock on the door where their kid may have been murdered, they want to use any kind of technology you've got to solve that crime.

so it's difficult the position that you're in and we get in we understand the guardrails and things that we need to have in place but i agree that we cannot paint the el paso police department for other bad apples in other communities and say that your department's doing that so uh i'm in agreement with you 100 and again thank you and the men and women for what you do for for el paso and keeping us safe we appreciate that you got it thank you you got miss prine public comment please

Absolutely. Thank you for that clarification.

Thank you. Okay, Ms. Bryan, call for Representative Chavez. This is the last round, go ahead.

Yeah, I'm sorry, it's the third time, so I appreciate it. Mayor and council, I, again, want to support this item. I just want to make sure that we understand that as council members, we are not, I don't feel as, I don't feel like I'm the expert in any one single department. I'm not the expert in parks, I'm not the expert on streets. I'm definitely not the expert in public safety. And while I understand that transparency is extremely important to our community, we want to make sure that any future action taken by the council is done by ensuring that the public is aware of it and that we allow o

Okay, there's a motion for an amendment. Is there a second?

She just said the action she's going to send it to this crime. While she said in that over.

Okay. Let me know when you send it, Ms. Pryor.

Mayor, if I may read it, is that okay with you? Please. Okay, thank you, Mayor. Move to amend item 26 to direct the city manager to refrain from entering into executing, renewing, or extending any contract agreement or other arrangement with FLOC or any other provider for fixed networked automated license plate reader cameras or substantially similar technology unless authorized by subsequent action of the city council following a proposal or recommendation brought forward by the city manager of the El Paso Police Department or a member of the city council.

Okay, discussion on the amendment? Representative Canales.

It's simply that the direction would have to come from the yeah, I think the confusion is the city manager said she wouldn't be bringing any of that towards city council again.

Yeah, but I mean when you're directing the staff to do something, Ms. Mack, what's your understanding?

Thank you, Mayor. And I think overall, I think the item as written really still allows for those conversations to happen. I think most of us have standing meetings with Ms. Mack, and we could ask questions at that point if they're considering something. And if one of us wants to put it forward for a vote, then we definitely can. So it's not prohibiting any conversations from happening.

I think the main motion still has a lot of that wiggle room for Ms. Mack to come to any one of us to say, they just found this new technology. Will you consider putting this on the agenda for discussion? I feel like that still gives us a good safety net and enough guardrails to move forward.

with this in a future another council can look at it okay represent rocha thank you mayor so quick question is that allowed because the direction would have to come from council as a body to add something to the agenda or for you to come and ask one of us to put something on the agenda so the process would be slightly different so in order for us say a new technology comes out

Is that because you don't have council direction, Ms. Mack?

So, Ms. Mack, are you seeing the amendment and the main motion as one and the same? Yes. Okay. Ms. Frye?

I think we're we're done with public comment.

Just a point of clarification on this motion. It's not necessarily just inserting those words. It's also removing a bunch of other words prior to that.

based on the based on the language that you sent because on the language that you sent it doesn't have um or other arrangement of block safety or another any other provider for the acquisition installation operation maintenance or use that's not part of the language you sent was prime so it's not just adding language to it it's it's kind of changing it quite a bit i defer to mayor protein travis

I'm not striking any language. I'm just adding additional language to include city manager and the department itself. Thank you, Ms. Prang.

So you're not striking any language you're adding?

So that's the exact thing that we would be voting on, not the language that was sent by email, correct?

But I think she's changing it now because it's not the same thing that we got.

Ms. Bryant, we probably need to unwind this vote. Until we get clear on what they're voting on. I stopped the voting. So let me make sure I can get it clear on what we're voting on. Representative Chavez.

Thank you, Mayor. Where it says, unless otherwise directed by subsequent action by the city council, I would like to add the language that was sent, which is A recommendation brought forward by the city manager, the El Paso Police Department, or a member of the city council. Without striking any other language to this. And again, I just want to make sure that we have clarity and we give options to the police department or our city manager to bring something forward in the future. Okay. If necessary.

I would just say that that would just be the language, the city manager, police department, city council, member of city council. So what we were sent by email is now changed to what Rep Chavez just said.

Representative Nino. Thank you, Mayor. Ms. Prine, would you be able to read the entire motion as amended?

Okay, any further discussion on the amendment? Ms. Bryant, call for the vote.

And this is the second time I'm speaking on the main motion. The other ones were for the amendment. Just wanted to clarify that. So I guess with this amendment passing, I, I know Ms. Mackey said that you took the amendment and the main motion kind of stay in the same direction. But I just want to clarify that we could still, I feel like it does, it does give you a little bit of more leverage to still go look for these things and bring them back at a future date.

Okay, that that makes sense. But I'm also just interpreting this. We are still looking for a LPR is based off of the amendment. And we could clarify that more next month when this comes back with with the reso but I that's how I interpret this that the city will pass it will still look for other options.

Thank you, Mayor. That is incorrect. I think that we are giving, throughout this vote today, the community a message that we are not supporting ALPRs at this time, and that any technology in the future, if there is one, that the community feels is aligned with our values, and that after a complete and robust discussion with their feedback and consent, we would move forward with. I think that's very clear today. Thank you, Mayor.

Okay, Ms. Farrar, we're on the main motion now.

And again, we're voting on the resolution, yes.

Main motion for the resolution though, isn't it?

OK very good. Now counts we have 5 additional items we can either break for lunch and come back or we could take these they're going to be relatively quick. There's a motion is there a second can I comment on this sure.

Right, so you can vote on that. Representative LeMond has a motion to break for lunch. Is there a second? There's a second. Ms. Bryant?

Scott, do you want the presentation we have in our backup or you just want to wing it the way you're doing it? I think I can just wing it. Fair enough.

Okay. Is there a motion to approve this item? Okay. Any questions for Scott? Okay, Ms. Bryan.

Okay, Ms. Bryan, let's take item number 21. Thank you, Scott.

All right. Okay. Okay. Steve, how you doing?

That was a holdover. Okay, Representative Rocha.

Thank you, Mayor. Steve, during this, and just to make sure that we understand and for the public to understand, there was outreach to the owners of these shops.

Thank you for that, Steve. I appreciate it.

Okay, there's a motion. Is there a second? Second. Okay, motion and second.

Okay, any questions for Josette? Ms. Bryant, we have public comment.

OK. Mr. Prine, call for the vote, please.

OK, Ms. Frank, can we take items 23 and 24 together?

Very good. Any questions on item 23 or 24 for Tony? No, there's no public comment. Mr. Ryan, call for the vote.

Okay, Ms. Bryant, I believe that brings us to the end of the meeting.