City Council - Regular Meeting

Can you hear us? I can. Can you hear me?

We have to modify the executive session item 12 to read the following. Executive session for Idaho code 74206 subsection 1F to communicate with legal counsel for the public agency to discuss the legal ramifications of and legal options for pending litigation or controversies not yet being litigated. but eminently likely to be litigated, and 1J, to consider labor contract matters authorized under section 74-206A, subsection 1A and 1B of Idaho Code. And with that change in language to item 12, we approve the agenda. Second. Second.

No changes to tonight's consent agenda move that we approve the consent agenda for the mayor to sign a clerk to test.

Not so much a question as a comment to the rest of council. Curtis did reach out to me and we discussed this a few weeks ago. I thought it was a good enough idea as a win-win all the way around for having this fence put up. It was good to bring forward and it was a good idea to have MDC be part of this. I think that's a great opportunity. I just want to make one comment because you're going to have to hear some of my historical knowledge that's totally worthless, but you're going to hear it anyway. ITD owned the right-of-way on Franklin Road, and I know that because back in the day, there used

What kind of useful life does this type of fence have? And what kind of maintenance do we anticipate? Or how frequently might we have to replace the fence or repair it? I mean, obviously, if someone runs into it, it's out of our control. But help me understand what a precast concrete fence will look like in 20 years. Sure.

Mr. Mayor. Thank you so much. This has been very interesting as well as enlightening regarding that corner. So then who becomes the keeper of the fence? Does that then lie in economic development or does parks get it? Sorry, Steve, because they've probably got more fencing. How we ask so often in development, who is going to track that so it gets done?

Curtis, thanks. I don't have quite the history with this corner as Councilman Overton does, but tell me a little bit about the neighbors. Tell me a little bit about the neighbors and have we talked to them about precast concrete? Have we talked to them about staining the inside and the outside? Do we maintain both sides? It seems to me that you would want to tear out the fence first, the existing fence before installing, but sounds like they have a say in whether or not the existing wood and chain link fence comes out. Talk to me about that process with the neighbors and how that would work.

Quick question, Curtis. On the projected cost, about $111,000, $112,000, is that a firm estimate, or could that number adjust up once they get in there and realize maybe there's a little bit more work than they have? Because if we have a reimbursement agreement of $125,000 from MDC, Just a little concerned if it turns out to be $145,000 because there was something there that they hadn't expected. And if that were the case, the city would, I would assume, be on the hook because we'd pay for it and then be reimbursed. So how solid is that cost estimate?

Mayor Mrakas, That's my tailor yeah I think i'm fine with it, you know really think it would be an improvement I drive by that every day and. think the the new fence would look nice and it would be an improvement to the city and taking advantage of the opportunity to have that taken care of makes some sense i just a little concerned if the costs were to exceed that but um it seemed like it's reasonable i guess maybe one question as a quick follow-up to my earlier one if i may um would the process look like? Because the city would take care of the purchase, the install, everything, and then get

Approved unless the NBC agreement supplants that option And that was that's a purchasing finance question so mr. Mayor to that to that and I'm just trying to make sure I'm understanding what's first here in this process because if we Essentially item number 10 having this moa between MDC and the city is is to enter into a reimbursement agreement of $125,000. If Curtis comes back once we have the final details and it's $155,000 or $165,000, I would not want to move ahead at that point. I wanted to make sure that the city could say, we're not going to do that anymore.

Okay. And I appreciate that. I mean, do we need to make a motion to approve the MOA here between MDC and the city on item number 10? Because I'd be happy to do that if that's okay. If there's no more discussion now, I would move that we approve the memorandum of agreement between Meridian Development Corporation and the City of Meridian for a row circle mobile home subdivision fencing agreement.

Not a question, maybe a question I had previewed for you, just if you wanted to walk us through the comparables and kind of how we stack up to a couple of the surrounding golf courses. I just think that's helpful for everybody in terms of the context that we're in.

Yeah, I think it's helpful. I just thought everyone would like to hear that we're about a dollar less than the average. I think that was the key piece of info. And you don't need action tonight, right? This is just feedback.

Yeah, and just on that, I've never loved that we're in the golf course business, but I accept that we are in the golf course business. That's where we're at. I did and do feel really strongly that covering our costs is really important. So I think there's a good reason behind increasing them. You know, I think it's still very competitive from what I had seen. So I'm in support of it, but I just thought that that background info would be helpful for the council.

Mayor Garrett, the golf course looks great, first and foremost. And so, Ryan.

So I was actually kind of surprised that we didn't up them more given how crazy busy it is. But I know that it's for the citizens and stuff. So I think that that's very reasonable. And I think you're on a great track to just make sure that we're recouping our costs. So but great job. Some of us worked very, very hard since we owned the dirt to get us into the golf course business. So good job.

Just looking at the information, 2025, we had about 49,997 rounds. Is that... I mean, how much more room do we have for additional rounds? Like what's our capacity? Are we, you know, cause it would seem like the more rounds you could get, obviously is a great way to get additional revenue without raising the rate. So I'm just kind of curious, you know, where that stacks up in terms of like what we could, if we could get 52,000 rounds and what, what does that mean? What does that look like? So I'm just kind of curious if you could walk me through that a little bit. I'm comfortable with sort of

Just a quick comment. So the average golfers go out and we seem to get really good feedback. But I've gotten feedback now from three different organizers of tournaments that have run out at the golf course. And I was impressed because if there was a time where you guys are pushed to the limit, it's when almost every single golf cart you have is rented out and you're pushing that course on every hole all day long. And the feedback has been tremendous. The quality of the course, the way it's run, how everything worked. I couldn't ask for more. It's amazing that we can do that and we're still a m

We were out there last week as part of the parks to her and things were just buzzing at Lakeview and it's good to see. I'm of the belief that it's it's a good deal until it's not a good deal and we've created a good deal for the citizens of Meridian It's good to see people out there utilizing this amenity that we're able to provide. Ryan, kudos to you because the course is beautiful and it's being utilized. So good work and let's keep making it a good deal. And thanks for the research. I kind of like to be that $1 below the average of everybody else. So appreciate your work on that.

Move that we go into executive session for Idaho Code 74-206, subsection 1F, 1J, and 74-206A, 1A, and B. Seconded.

There is one change to tonight's agenda. We're going to vacate item four, the executive session. And with that, I move that we approve the rest of the agenda as published.

Just really quick, I wanted to let people know I was out during the hearing on June 16th with my family on vacation, and I have reviewed about 80% of the materials associated with that hearing and most of the materials from this hearing. I do pride myself on reviewing everything. If there's a vote this evening, I will abstain. If it is continued for some reason, I expect I would be able to vote at that time once I've finished everything. Thank you.

Bill, if this road wasn't an arterial, would this, would staff recommend approval?

Mayor Mrakas, Mr mayor that's i'm sure bill, I know in the past, we looked at what the definition of like an adequate transition is for residential uses, how do you think about that, in the context of mixed use development like this one.

Bill, I know that you said that the north section is mostly conceptual, but the Williams pipeline runs right through that. Is the concept that we're looking at compliant with the requirements that Williams Pipeline has for what can be built on and around it?

Bill, you made an interesting comment or observation really about how the comp plan and the STARS agreement kind of collide here in an interesting way. Has that happened in Meridian where the two, you know, our code and our comp plan and the STARS agreements have kind of collided? If so, have we worked through that or is it always sort of kind of actually worked together fairly well?

I'm going to ask you to maybe go back in history or think a little bit about when we updated the comp plan. What's the reasoning behind the, I'll use the word prohibition, of having an arterial go through the middle of a project and sort of separating a project so that you have to look at them as two separate ones instead of one? Is there more... concrete, direct reasons why we did that? Or is it just sort of a general overarching philosophy that makes sense? Or is there something that's really driving why we made that change?

Mr. Mayor. Councilman Noverson. Just a little follow-up on what Councilman Taylor said. Bill, did planning staff ever try to work with the applicants so that we could be in compliance with the STARS agreement and the comprehensive plan? A more balanced approach on both sides of the road so that it would work with both?

Mr. Mayor, Ethan, thank you very much. Probably there's lots of concerns, but my biggest concern is the safety of the residents in South getting across Amity Boulevard. to all the great shops and things, grocery store, that you're going to have. So hematite will be built and cross with a light. Amity, is that the correct name of the road going in?

Mayor, so there is or will be eventually a light? Is this going to take a while? Is this going to wait for another development to go in? At what point will the light, because that's not going to be a safe crossing no matter how many great pathways we have until the light's put in.

Ethan, do you have a sense of how much the improvements for ITD and along Meridian Road, the highway, that you will be putting into this and then what the reimbursement amount would be potentially?

Mr. Mayor, where were we talking about on the map? Is that where south of, right, okay.

Yeah, sorry, Mr. Mayor. To the last person who gave testimony, she's made a mention about a notice being written in pencil. Can I get a little bit more clarity about what she was referring to, if she wouldn't mind?

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Ma'am, do you have any photos of that? And I apologize, I'm not there in person. You're probably just hearing my voice. But do you have any photos of that?

I'm glad you are here tonight. I've had concerns for quite a while about Meridian Road with ITD. My question is always the same. As Meridian grows, it's not just Meridian, but it's the boomtown of CUNA.

That is causing such a huge amount of traffic that's continually backing up farther and farther every single day trying to get to I-84. Every time I've asked for what's your vision, what's your plan, how are we going to fix Meridian Road when it approaches I-84 and deal with the backup on traffic, I've never gotten an answer. I don't think there's been a visionary plan for what we're going to see. And now we're going to have Costco out there and we're going to have all that growth around it. And now we're looking at this application. Is there anything new you can enlighten us with on Meridian

Mr. Mayor, follow up. I don't think you can say the Overland bottleneck when there's days it's past victory. So I'm talking about the fact that that bottleneck is going back sometimes over a mile back up and getting worse as we develop to the south.

Mr. Mayor, follow-up. I'd love to see that plan. Now, when you're talking about dual right-hand lane, dual left-hand, you're talking about Overland, or are you talking about...

Okay. What about I-84? Because I'm most concerned about most of that traffic that's coming in is waiting to get on I-84, and they can't get there. It's broken as it sits right now, and I don't hear anyone giving us a solution for how to fix that traffic issue as it gets worse.

Just got one quick one. Ethan, I understand the STARS agreement. I understand the improvements that'll happen on Highway 69. But I guess I'm not clear what improvements, if any, will happen on Amity Road between Hermitite and the intersection.

A lot of discussion about a STARS agreement. Do you have a draft agreement or conceptually like you have a high level of confidence it would be approved? Because what I don't want is to do this with if we are to prove it under the assumption we have it and then find out that's not the case.

Mr. Mayor. I was curious like what entity specifically would be on the hook under the stars agreement Mr. Mayor councilmember straighter.

Like a special purpose vehicle for this project specifically or?

Right. So to the extent that if the project became, God forbid, not viable because of a change, I was just kind of curious how that would play out legally. Okay. um that certainly would be a condition of approval for us and we don't have that was one thing i was taking a little bit of an issue with we don't really have conditions of approval right at this point you have conversations you've had but we don't have conditions of approval so it's a little bit tough to say well staff has suggested you've had a conversation about hypothetical conditions of approval but there are no conditions of app

Maybe a little bit of an ignorant question. We don't look at STARS agreements that often. It's rare when we have an opportunity like that. And I guess I'm curious, is there typically like some type of recourse? Is there like bonding? Like what kind of is the teeth behind your obligations in the agreement typically?

Got it. So you're going to have a signed lease from your anchor tenant that's going to give you the confidence to sign the agreement is basically your rationale.

Just back to the sign, not to like cause a stir with it or whatever, but just help me confirm from your perspective, you met the statutory requirement on time. It was legible. Help me understand from your perspective with the sign.

just want to make sure uh because the details matter was it posted with the sharpie by september 3rd or was it pencil on september 3rd and then sharpie later because i just want to make sure that yeah um mayor simpson council member straighter it was sharpie from the beginning okay thank you that's helpful thank you

Ethan, the mayor brought up one of my questions on the fencing, but you also heard some testimony about the transition to the south and the prior project seemed to have that approval. Now it's 20 and 25 units in those buildings, I believe. Any consideration on density there in those two buildings, any accommodations you could make there?

I have a quick question for Bill. Ethan actually brought up a little bit comp plan versus UDC. Does this proposal as it is presented comply with UDC? Or is there anything amiss with that?

Mayor Mrakas, Mr tell us when ever since not too late i'd sure like to hear from a ch D if mindy still online.

Yes, Mindy, could you kind of just give us a rundown on ACHD's plans for the development and timelines on Amity Road, both to the east and to the west of where this development would take place?

Just a little discussion here. I guess a question I have. Not sure where we'll end up here tonight. I know that I wouldn't be prepared to vote on approving this project without having the staff with applicant actually write down the conditions of approval. There's a lot here. So I don't know if we get to that point, but if we do, I wouldn't be voting on approval tonight anyway, because I'd like to see the conditions of approval written out and then have an opportunity to further refine it as a council if we need to. So that said, would we need to leave the public hearing open? Or would we clos

any other fine any other testimony limited to just those specific findings but i would leave the hearing open mr mayor i guess i'll make a if i may tell us so um there's a lot here obviously we've had a couple chances to look at this review multiple planning and zoning meetings and uh projects obviously been in the works for some time um kind of distilled it down to just a couple of things that are important to me as I'm trying to think through this a little bit. I've been pretty clear over my time on council about what I think about the comprehensive plan. I think it's a great document. think

So I'm gonna, I wanna be the counterpoint here tonight as we do this, but I'm concerned about this project and I'll tell you why I'm initially concerned. I feel like the STARS program and the money is driving this development, not us. We have a comprehensive plan. It's there for a reason. You can call it a guideline, but we update that because parts of our city change and we need to update that agreement. And as much as I'd like to see all those millions of dollars in improvements done to Meridian Road, in the end of the day, Meridian Road is still broken when you get to the interstate. None o

Mr. Mayor, since I sit in between my two colleagues here, I'll straddle the fence. There's an old adage of a man who tells a young boy to bring him a rock. And the young boy goes and brings him a rock, and he says, not that kind of rock. Bring me another rock. And I look at this entire project, and they brought a rock to staff, and they said, not that kind of rock. And they recommended denial. And PNZ looked at the rock and they said, not that kind of rock, and they denied it. And then they brought it to city council and we said, well, that's a different kind of rock than you had with PNZ, but

So if there's a vote tonight, which I don't think there would be because we don't have findings and I suspected the majority of council would be uncomfortable with that. I think it's not the rock for me to use the analogy. I'm still weighing it, to be honest. I'm really on the fence about it. I think the road improvements would be a tremendous help. It's certainly of great value. I'm also definitely not convinced that you guys have met the mark in terms of what our comp plan expects. I view the comp plan as a little more than a guideline. I appreciate there are different perspectives on it. On

Mr. Mayor, well, to continue with the rock metaphor, I think the rock that I have is closer, but still maybe needs some polishing. Like my colleagues, I'm really struggling with the three-story then residential in the south. I do greatly appreciate the fencing in the north, so I think we're making progress with the neighbors, but I'm just really not sure that we're completely there yet. But I think if we can see everything documented and continue the hearing and continue the discussion, I think at least we'll get more clarity regarding... where we could and how we could potentially get there.

I'll try to be brief. If there was a vote this evening for denial, I would be in support of that. I think that this council provided some pretty good feedback back in July about what type of rock we were looking for. And I think that's been largely in line with the feedback this applicant has heard from Planning and Zoning not once but twice, and the many, many conversations that they've had with our Planning Department. I would certainly urge the council to be cautious about approving this because I think that when you start granting kind of a multi-use across an arterial, the question that t

I guess the public hearing is open. I would be curious if the applicant would like a continuance or what they would like.

Ethan, hold on. So earlier, I think Bill said this, that you had discussed some conditions of approval, what they might be. Is that a list that, and I know council can add to this list, but is that something that Bill and Ethan that you've discussed previously? these conditions of approval would be, you both would be in agreement with what's there. And I just want to make sure you're both talking about the same list. There's an understanding that these things would be conditions of approval, understanding that we may have and that we would very well likely have additional things we would want

You know, I think there's an opportunity to not take all the options off the table yet tonight. I think that applicants heard some of the concerns and the sentiment from council. Obviously, there's been some discussion about what would be needed, but there's a lot more detail that staff would, knowing if council wants to see that. I personally want to see that. I would really like the two of you to sit down and for staff to say, here's what council is going to need to work with, and is that okay with you? You may very well say, we can't do that. That's just not going to work. I don't know unti

Yeah, I hear your frustration, and I'm very sympathetic, but at the same time, our staff recommended denial twice, and so did our Planning and Zoning Commission. And I would hate for you to have to walk away from this kind of opportunity, but at the same time, that's the business that you're in. So all due respect, but that's the risk that you take when you do these kinds of projects. I would recommend that you... do a continuance for a couple of weeks, see if everybody can get on the same page. And I don't think it should take more than a month, but I'm not going to pre-agree to hamstring our

Yeah, I think it sounds like you have something to share about Um, to be fair, we've never been at a point where conditions of approval could be presented to you officially. And I understand some of the process, but, you know, we will for denials here, but we've never, even as council, when we considered a little while ago, we, we were, um, yes, we tried to remand it back to planning and zoning as a lifeline. Otherwise the project was dead in June or July, whenever we saw it. I also think we're offering you an opportunity to keep the project alive because the project's going to die tonight unl

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So I guess the feedback I had so far was the applicant had agreed to put the fence in, which I think you noted. You had already provided a condition, kind of a condition, that four stories was too high in the north part of the development. And then in the south part of the development... I think that needs to come down by a story to maybe go back to the original plan because the neighbors seemed OK with it. Some version of that. I don't. And that's the problem with this request. And we're going to do our best, but. Until we see the conditions of approval, it's very hard t

On the waiver issue bill, I know that ITD has given approval on a couple of those write-in, write-out, but was there one that Ada County Highway District also needed to approve on the write-in, write-out on Amity? Could you remind me if they've indicated, are they okay with that write-in, write-out, or do we need to, I'm just trying to understand that.

Mr. Mayor, just on that, I personally am supportive because as I'm looking at the plan, it seems like would need those right in right outs to make it function a little bit better so i i mean unless the rest of council can weigh in i i think those i'd be okay with that i think we should have those

Mayor Mrakas, Mr Mayor. Mayor Mrakas, Also share also just want to say I know like Councilman kavanagh and others had some strong feedback and even if they would be against it conditions that would help make them feel better about it are always appreciated to even though you know it may not get you there, but. Mayor Mrakas, Just thought.

seen councilman counter shake his head so must have no additional comments mr mayor okay council anything else that you'd like staff to specifically look at or consider okay councilman i'm again just assuming since it's here in the in the presentation that hermitite is part of the project moving forward we don't need to do a condition on that um on that improvement.

I agree. Mr. Mayor. Mr. Taylor. If there are no other comments, I'd make a motion that we continue item number three, to October 13th, which is item H-2025-0007.

Real quick, I'll be voting no on this. My perspective is the council has already granted this applicant an opportunity, both with meeting with staff and planning and zoning, to address much of the feedback, similar in nature to what we provided last July. So I don't think that a continuance is needed. I'm actually more in favor now of voting for denial, so I won't be supporting the motion for a continuance.