City Council - Regular Meeting

It is 7.10 p.m. on Monday, September 14th, and I wanted to call the meeting to order. City Clerk Coffey, could we have a roll call, please?

Here. So I just want to remind everyone, We have some new faces I see in the audience today that you do need a parking pass on your car if you're parked out front, and those can be found right downstairs. And I'm going to start by reading a statement about public commenting during our meeting. So public meetings are a limited public forum, meaning that there are rules for commenting at these meetings. Comments on non-agendized items must address matters within the subject matter jurisdiction of the city, and comments on agendized items must relate to that specific item. If comments do not fall

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

City Attorney, do we have a closed session report?

OK, well, we have a proclamation today first for the 50th anniversary of the California Coastal Commission and for Coastal Cleanup Day. And I believe we have Deirdre Martin and Lynn Adams in the audience, perhaps. Do you want to come up to the podium since we weren't able to get anyone from the Coastal Commission today? So we have our own Earth heroes here. WITH US. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT. SO PROCLAMATION OF THE CITY OF PACIFICA IN RECOGNITION OF THE CALIFORNIA COASTAL COMMISSION'S 50TH ANNIVERSARY AND COASTAL CLEANUP DAY 2026. WHEREAS IN 1972 ALARMED BY THE SANTA BARBARA OIL

Thank you so much, Debra. Would any council members like to add anything?

I liked it last week. We started with Myra.

It worked out really well. Okay. Well, I missed that. So go, Myra, go.

I think we should always start with you. Don't forget your mic, though. Pull your mic down.

Cleanup day is my day. So I will leave anything behind and I'll be there. In Pacifica, our coastline is part of our identity. But we also know how vulnerable it is. And I appreciate all of the volunteers for cleaning up our coastline and beaches. So thank you so much for everything you do. So if it wasn't for you guys, I don't know how the city would look like. So thank you so much. Thank you.

I'm always excited at school when I see, you know, school, beginning of school, your stuff is just dying down, and then I see the poster for Coastal Cleanup Day, and everybody starts getting revved up for that. And at Cabrillo, there's a green team that is organized. Cherie Chan's been involved with it and others, and so we're very excited to see that happening and look forward to participating again. Thanks.

It's so good to see you both standing there together. It's like the dream team right there. And I found myself getting a little emotional because the work that you have done and the opportunities that you have provided for our community, it's just priceless. So many years of young people and old people and everybody in between coming together just to clean up and care about their community, right? There's not, talking about politics or anything like that. It's just we love our community and we want it to look beautiful and we want our oceans to be safe. So thank you so much for providing our c

But I will be thinking of you and there's groups of my students that are gonna be there with bells on. Awesome, thanks Mary.

How lucky are we to live next to that? How lucky are we to have the council meeting next to that? How lucky are we to have people looking after that like you in this community? We're lucky to have you here doing that for us to make this such a wonderful place. If you think about the human body, You think we have four limbs, a torso, and a head. You take 15% of that off, pick a limb, pick a head, pick a torso. That's what we'll be missing. 15% of the community is the ghost. You guys are warriors for us. You're saving us. You're keeping us whole. Thank you.

Thanks. And you know I love you and all the work that you do and all the education and inspiration you provide to our children too that grow up just taking care and cleaning up by default because that's what they've always done and it's the right thing to do. I can't wait to hear what the final slogan is about the octopus. I do want to take a minute to thank the Coastal Commission too, though. I mean, I know we weren't very happy with them at our last meeting about our short-term rentals and, you know, sometimes there's disagreement about policies and so forth in the city. But, you know, you l

Yeah. And I'm going to present this to you all on Saturday, right? Do you want a picture or anything today to celebrate? Not necessarily? Okay. Okay. Love you both. Bye, guys. But I will open up public comment on the proclamation. If anyone would like to say something, you can come up and fill out a yellow card afterwards. Do we have any raised hands?

I'm sorry, but that's not the topic of the conversation now. You can make that statement during open public comment.

We're only talking about the beach and the ocean right now, yes.

Can you unmute yourself, Judy? Can we go on to the next one and come back to Judy?

Go ahead, Carrie. Go ahead, Carrie, we're listening. Is he muted also?

We're not hearing you, Carrie. Okay. Do you want to try Judy one more time?

It's about the Coastal Commission and Coastal Cleanup Day.

We've got a couple of other items first, so, yeah, you'll need to wait.

All right, I'm going to close. I don't see anybody in the room. I'm going to close public comment on that item now. Okay. Our next special presentation is from the Fogfest Organizing Group, the 39th Pacific Coast Fog Fest. So I want to invite Teresa and Rhianna to the podium for a special presentation.

Thank you. Thank you both so much. Excuse me. I think the council wants to make some comments and be able to thank you from here. Yeah, you have the block. Oh, yes, there you go.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you guys for everything you do. It seems like it's easy, but it's not. This is a lot of work. So, and for me, when I wasn't involved with anything related to the city, so I usually come to Fogfest. And... This is where we gather as a community. So thank you so much for everything you're doing. And hopefully we can help out if you guys let us know what you guys need. Maybe ahead of time. It's kind of late right now. But thank you so much for everything you guys are doing. We appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you.

I was reflecting on our long history with Fogfest and thinking about our son, who's 33, who had the opportunity to march in the parade with a respite care group. He was about six, and it rained. And he was not happy. He was the most unhappy-looking parade marcher I think I've ever seen. But that was a long time ago. And there have been... endless involvements. There are so many opportunities to volunteer because this is truly a community event put on by the community for the community and the benefit in the end for the community groups that work at Fogfest to raise a little money for their spe

Thank you both for being here. I think the community needs to really understand how much work you have put into this year. So there was some really big transitions, right? Folks that had been working for a very long time who kind of stepped down just a little bit. Maybe some of them stepped all the way down. I mean, we have John in the audience there, right? So I know you still have your little fingers in there every now and then, John. But you really stepped up. And I don't know if you realized... what a lift it was going to be, but boy, did you do a great job. And I got to be the liaison. So

It was like the same three notes. It was great. Anyway, there's lots of memories. We all have a lot of memories and we can just make some more this year. So thank you both so much.

I definitely want to echo the comments in terms of how much time and how much effort and how little people really understand how much goes into this. But that's part of what makes Pacifica great, is people like you coming together to make this a community where we all care about each other, lift each other up. And this is our biggest, brightest, make us shine, even though they call it Fogfest, is still going to make us shine out there in the community. And I really appreciate all the work that you and all your volunteers do to try to make this happen. Thank you so much.

Before you go, there are other people out here that are very involved in the Fog Fest. We have Marty, who's in charge of all the entertainment. Yay, Marty. And then I saw Robin walk in. And so, Robin, how long have you been doing the parade? Banana years, like 25 years. So thank you. Thank you so much.

And I have one card from him, but if anybody else wants to speak, please do fill out a card. And yeah, Teresa and Rhianna, I just really want to thank you for stepping up because I know this wouldn't have happened without you this year. And It's becoming more and more challenging every year with the cost, especially since the Gilroy shooting, you know, the cost of police. I'm just trying to keep everyone safe, too, while having fun. And most of that, they do such a great job. It's in the background. You don't really notice, but you know they're there if anything happens. And this is really a b

One more thing, if you don't mind, we have to give a shout out to Kathy Johnson. She's not here tonight because she couldn't be, but that woman has put in some significant personal time over many decades with Fogfest.

Great. Thank you both so very much. Thank you.

All of them. Yeah. I'm going to clap. I'm going to clap for real. So we'll take public comments online first. I just want to make a reminder that this is not about general public comment. This is only about Fogfest. So do we have any raised hands, Emily?

And let's cut that off for now. So Jim, please go ahead.

That's not now. This is only about Fogfest. So I'll let you know when it's time for general public comment. Thank you. All right. I have a card from Martin Anaya.

Appreciate you. Thank you so much, Martin. Okay, I don't have any other cards, so I'll close public comment on that item. Okay, and then that brings us to our... Consent calendar, items 1 to 11. Are there any council members that want to pull any items? Seeing none.

You can ask questions later, too. It's just if you want to pull an item. You don't need to pull one, so I can just take public comment while you're looking for your comments. Okay. All right. So, again, I'm opening up public comment online first for items 1 to 11 on the consent calendar. Again, this is not general public comment. That will come next. Do we have any raised hands?

This is not general public comment. That will come next. Thank you.

There are no raised hands. I do have two cards from the audience. First is Jose Quintana from the Pacifica School District. Oh, here you are. Come on up to the microphone, please. And then Michael Wellman is my last card. So again, if anybody else wants to make a comment on the consent calendar, if you could fill out a yellow card and bring it up front, please.

Okay. Yeah, we're not asking any questions right now. We might after public comment.

Okay, thank you. Okay, those are all the cards I have, so I'm going to close public comment on consent and

Through the mayor. Excuse me, city attorney. When the council heard the item three years ago or something, I had to recuse or go in the room and be locked up until the voting was done. Would it be appropriate to pull this item out separately and vote on it and not have me vote? Do I abstain from this item?

And the reason for that is because I'm a school district employee. Thank you. Thank you.

I do have a question on the budget items that were listed. I saw two different charges for Sierra Club. Are you talking about item one, the disbursements? Yes. I'm just trying to check and see what's going on here. This is for the Sierra Yellow Cubs. And I see a charge on August 14 for $7,465 with 37 cents. There is another charge on September 4th for $8,686.51. And I just wanted to know who's taking all of this taxi. Who is using all this? So I wanted to clarify that and find out.

I think that's part of our senior program, but Scott, do you want to say a little bit more about that?

But I heard that the program was discontinued when, remember when we were cutting on the budget, that you said that only like eight people were using it. That's why it was discontinued. So I thought about it when I saw the charges, but then I thought, I didn't have time to look at when you say there was so many people using it, that's why it was taking off. But I'm not sure if... Is it still in use?

But that's not the one that you discontinued?

And maybe could you give us, like, I know this is a funded, you know, program. So is that possible to find out how many people are using this one too?

If I could just comment on it, it's a beautiful program, and it's been running for a few years now, like five years. Yeah, and it's also, it was encouraged by the age-friendly programs task force, and so that was really great. Yeah, it's really wonderful.

I thought about it when I looked, but then I thought, okay, we are trying to save some money here, so what's going on?

Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Vice Mayor Wright.

Yes. There's so much information that we put out there all the time, and I first want to appreciate staff and their extremely thorough answers to so many of my questions being one of the most prolific question askers. I just wanted to understand, and for the public's benefit, how does the public have access to your responses to council member questions?

And just in the interest of being able to better educate the public, would it be Would it be hard to put that on Connect with Pacifica, or is that just too much? Because a lot of them seem very germane to a lot of the issues, not just my questions, but all of our questions. And if they're not asked from the dais, the people that are watching from home, either on TV or online, may not have access to the full information that us sitting up here have, or those that have taken the time to take the responses from the back of the room and read I was just wondering, could we at some point talk about

Once again, I want to express how much I appreciate all the staff's work to answer these questions. The first one's an entire page response.

Are they connected to the meeting minutes?

So we had one question from the public about the school district workforce housing and identifying which of the units were being built in this first phase. Is that something that we have an exhibit in the staff report that can be pulled up or perhaps the applicant can just describe it.

So my understanding is the permits are and the building permits too are for the full 70 units but Right now the project is intended to be phased and maybe the applicant can talk a little bit more to that in terms of the schedule and what they're thinking.

Through the mayor. Yeah. In the staff report, it says that there was a planning commission meeting on March 20th, 2023. And then later on April 24th, 2024 city council approval of a resolution. Would it be, would the exhibits in those staff reports include information that people might have interest in?

I, too, did not see those. those exhibits because I was in the room with the door closed for the city attorney. But they are available through our website on that date, April 24th, 2024.

And that distinguished the phasing? I don't remember that being part of that meeting.

But perhaps the applicant can can speak to just roughly which units are being built now and what's happening with the other piece of land in the meantime. Thank you so much for coming back up, Jose. Thank you.

Uh-huh. But at this point, you don't know when the second phase will happen, is my understanding.

Okay. So... Just if we're looking at the plan sort of horizontally, right? Because it's mostly parallel to Odstad. Left side, right side. Which part are you developing now? Just to give the public a rough idea.

So that should all be clear once they're reviewing.

Okay. And then just to confirm what Community Development Director Updegrave said, so you're building all 11 of the below market rate units as part of this first?

All right. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you. Excited to see it really start construction.

You need to talk into your microphone. Item 12? Is that part of the consent? No, that's not consent. Okay. I think we're done with the consent calendar. Would anyone like to make a motion?

I move we approve the consent calendar as recommended and lock her up.

I accept the friendly amendment of our esteemed city attorney.

Thank you very much. All right, so that brings us now to public comments on items not on the posted agenda. Oh, you're fine. So I have 14 cards in the room. How many do we have online?

Okay. I'm going to give 10 more seconds, and then we'll close that queue. And we're going to start with the online comments. So do we still have three?

So the attorney, I'm not sure this relates to items within our jurisdiction. Give a warning. Yeah, so I just wanted to warn you that this doesn't seem related to items within our jurisdiction. So can you please keep it on topic to items within the City of Pacifica jurisdiction? And if not, I'll have to cut you off. So please go ahead again for now.

I'm sorry. Your comments are off topic and I'm going to have to cut you off. Okay.

So I'm sorry, but your comments are off-topic and not within the subject matter jurisdiction of the city and It's therefore disrupting of the council meeting. So I'm directing the city clerk to remove you Oh, this is your warning. I'm sorry. This is your warning So if you're not able to keep to a topic within the subject matter jurisdiction of the city, I will need to cut you off Right away the next time so please go ahead

The city attorney is telling me that you are off topic, and I'm going to cut off the microphone. Please do so, city clerk. Thank you.

Thank you. for your patience in the room. Okay, so I'm going to ask people, I'm going to call three names at a time and if you can line up because we do have a lot of cards and we've got a big item still to get to tonight. So Dustin Davidson followed by Lilo Ranero and then Kimberly Finale are my first three cards.

Thank you, Dustin. Okay, Lila, followed by Kimberly, and then Pete Shoemaker.

Thank you, Lila. Kimberly, Pete, and then Ren Murphy.

Thank you, Kimberly, and Suzanne. Pete, followed by Wren, and then Brennan Duck.

Thank you, Pete. Ren, Brennan, and then Sebastian Strasser.

Thank you, Bren. Brennan, Sebastian, and then Gloria Stofan.

Okay, thank you. Sebastian, Gloria, and then I said this wrong the last time. Elisna? Elisna?

Thank you, Sebastian. Gloria? Stefan? Is she here? Maybe she's one of the people that had to go out. Elizna or Elizna, I'm sorry. Remind me how to pronounce your name.

Thank you, Alyssa. Rhianna Karstad, Tyler Cabana, and then Mike Pachmanaban-Cabona. I'm sure I butchered that one. Hello again, Rihanna.

Okay, Tyler Mika, maybe not Mike, sorry. And Jeff Haley.

Leslie, Mike, and then the last card I have is from Jessica Shepard. Hi.

Thank you, Leslie. So Mike and then Jessica.

Thank you, Michael. Jessica and then Sue Degree.

Thank you, Sue. With that, I'm going to close public comment. And I'd like to make a slight agenda change, if that's okay, and allow the city manager. We have some special guests in the room and an announcement tonight.

Thank you so much. We're so excited for this surprise and this wonderful decision for Pacifica, Daly City, and Brisbane. Council Member Bruce, would you like to make comments or ask questions?

Sure, absolutely. City Manager Piccolotti, thank you for coming in tonight. When I saw you walk in, I'm like, okay, what's going on? So this is wonderful news. Thank you and welcome. Welcome. And it's very obvious the support you have in the room by everyone who's standing back there, and that means a lot to all of us too. So I look forward to getting to know you, and thank you for your service. Congratulations.

Congratulations on this great achievement. I'm glad that your wife had the opportunity to pin your badge. Thank you. Family is an important part and a forgotten part on how much they sacrifice as well, not just you. And your continued commitment to our community and your assurance that you're going to be more present here in Pacifica is greatly, greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your leadership. Frankly, I was hoping it was gonna be you. I am so glad to see this come to fruition, as I'm sure so many in our community are. Thank you for joining the team. Thank you.

Welcome. and I'm very happy that, remember our meeting with Daily City, and the fact that you are right in the middle, Daily City breathes fame, so I really like that. And also, I'm looking forward for a new chapter for JPA, and I think this collaboration is gonna be a great collaboration from now on. And we are very happy to have this, I would say friendly relationship within the cities. They were here to support each other. So I'm very, very happy. Welcome. Wonderful.

Congratulations. Thank you for choosing us. I always say that because I know you have a lot of options. I like your statement. Leadership is not rank-dependent. I believe the same thing, and thank you so much for voicing that. I can tell you're well supported already, and it's going to be a good run. Thank you. Thank you.

I happened to meet with Scott Perham this morning and got a sneak peek at the news, and he was just effervescent in his excitement at you taking over this position and him now filling in in your role as the laborer. representative too. And I think what you bring is something that's really been missing is really an understanding of our coast and the dangers and the water and so forth too. You know, we have such a beautiful place here, but we have a lot of hazards too. And it's so important to have someone who has lived here long enough to see, you know, some of these disasters and tragic desks

Yeah, we could all come up. And other firefighters.

I'm going to reopen public comment for just a moment. City Manager Piccolotti.

Thank you so much for coming to join us today, Tom and Nick. Okay, closing public comment. And I think we need a little break. So I'm going to suggest we take. It's almost 9 o'clock. Take an eight-minute break until 9 o'clock.

All right. This brings us to item 12. Public hearing text amendment TA 129-26 initiated by the city of Pacifica to repeal and replace article 41 density bonus program and article 47 city of Pacifica below market rate inclusionary program. So community development director Updegrave, welcome, and Hart staff, welcome.

CAN I JUST ASK ONE QUESTION AS YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THE PRESENTATION. I HEARD COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR UPTERGRAVE SAY THE DENSITY BONUS ORDINANCE IS REALLY ABOUT UPDATING TO STATE LAW AND THEN THE OTHER IS MORE OF A PACIFICA CODE. IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE HAVE jurisdiction over as a say in? Could you just highlight those as we go along?

Okay. Thank you. Before we go to council questions, I'd love to hear from Our planning commissioners, welcome Chair Hauser and Commissioner Davis. Do you want to tell us a little bit about your process and your lengthy meetings and where we are now?

Okay. Council, are there some clarifying questions? I know. And we'll open. I've got a bunch of questions, too, and we'll Is there anything pressing before public comment? I only have one card from Suzanne and she's not here. So I don't know if we'll have public comment, but anything you want to ask before? Anything you want to ask before public comment?

Thank you, Sue. Go ahead, Kimberly Finale.

Thank you, Kimberly. Do we have anyone online?

Okay. Oh, Suzanne, glad you could be with us. Please go ahead.

Thank you, Suzanne. There are no other raising hands. Okay. And with that, I'll close public comment. And if I can follow up on a couple of those questions, can you tell us a little bit about the Nexus study? I believe Heart is leading that, right? And what information is coming out of that, and should we wait?

Okay, thank you. And from your point of view, is there any reason to hold off on this until that is done? I assume we can come back with any modifications fairly quickly. Maybe that's a question for Director Updegrave.

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you. And then just to follow up with Kimberly's question, my understanding is, you know, I mean, the density bonus applies to mixed use projects. And these ordinances aren't what define the other benefits, child care. I know there were some density bonus exemptions for child care provided on site if the city had a shortage. But otherwise, those kinds of community benefits are defined elsewhere. Is that correct?

So I'm going to ask for Council lights, please, because I saw lots of people were eager to start.

»» Thank you for asking about the next study. Because that was one of my questions. So thank you, Suzanne, for that. That was confusing to me. »» Yeah. »» Like why wouldn't we wait for data? But I appreciated the explanation. So thank you. »» Okay. »» Now you can do lights. »» Okay. I smear right.

Sure. I'd like to start by thanking staff in particular for working on this and closely followed by our planning commission. I can't tell you how comfortable I am sitting up here knowing how professional and thorough they are. And in the interest of full disclosure, I did have an ex parte with our chair, Hauser. Okay. Well, I just want to be clear. So this is a question for Samantha Updegrave. Considering that we seem to have a history here of not doing things when we should do them, how often should we be updating this policy?

Well, thank you for wrestling this alligator. I appreciate it. In your consideration for the in lieu fees that you were looking at, what size of units were you analyzing? I don't think it was basically this size.

Yeah, the impetus of that question was I saw the rental unit number at 349,000. Tried to imagine what it is I could build for 349,000 and then thought about, well, what if somebody had two kids and they wanted to live in that place? And it would be a very tight fit. So that was what the concern was. Another concern that came to mind, the other day I was, as I'm getting older, looking at the typical life expectancy for certain groups. And then as I was going through this ordinance, I reflected on that. One of those groups, doesn't matter who it was, it was 69 years. So if you take 69 years and

So in the event of there were a generational secession, it would still be on the initial 45-day clock. The clock would not reset as it was passed down from a deceased parent to a living child still residing in the unit.

And do you understand how it is that I, for one, see that as defeating the purpose of helping families build generational wealth?

Just as a follow-up to that question, If someone sells what was a deed-restricted affordable unit, I mean, you're still appreciating the value some, aren't you, if it's been 20 years that you've owned the unit?

Okay. Believe it or not, that was all the questions I had.

Okay. Council Member Espinosa, if you can use your mic, please.

Thank you for the presentation. I do have, this question is like, I'm kind of like, because we don't have, when it's a development, we request so many affordable units. We don't want the developer to have the option to give us money instead of giving us the unit because what are we going to build with that money? It's practically never going to happen. And right now we're using some of this money for other things. So I would like to stay with the amount of units that we request and don't give them the opportunity to buy us the unit, give us money for the unit, I would like to see that unit bei

I'm a little concerned because we, well, the city doesn't have, we don't have a lot of land to build affordable housing. And we haven't been able to build any affordable housing. And if we have the opportunity to keep the percentage that we would like to have, And also it will be good for people with different social status to live in an area that they don't feel segregated, that they have people from different income levels and they can still live there. So that gives them an opportunity to feel like appreciated and not only a whole bunch of people living in an affordable housing area. So I f

Council Member Berry. Thank you for that question because I was going to ask the same questions and I really appreciate it that we're kind of on the same wavelength here because I was very concerned about making it too easy to just pay the fees and I think they can afford these fees so I don't think the fees are too high. I would like to see them higher actually. I guess what I'm concerned about and Planning Director Updegrade said something about how the in-lieu fees will be spent. Can you tell me a little bit more about the structure of the fees and is there a strategy on how to use them in

Female Speaker 2 It's on packet page 397. I had some questions about that, too. Female Speaker 1 397?

Yay. But yes, maybe I needed an example. So a simple, clear example. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much.

I JUST HAD A FOLLOW-UP TO THAT PARAGRAPH. AND I NOTICED, AND I'LL COME BACK TO YOU, GREG. SO ONE OF THE OTHER, OH, SHOOT, I LOST MY NOTE. ONE OF THE OTHER FEES, OH, FOR THE ADMINISTRATION OF RENTAL PROPERTIES, IT SAID THE CITY CAN CHARGE FEES FOR THAT. THAT WAS ON PACKET PAGE 402. So can we not charge for inclusionary monitoring costs and administration costs so that those don't have to come out of the housing in lieu fund? Because I've just noticed how, I mean, the money that we had from the Harmony One project has just been whittled away, whittled away at paying administration fees and never

Okay, well, thank you. That's something I definitely would like to look at. I have a question about the fees.

Mary, to your point, I wanted to... The fees are expensive, but I was saying if they are so expensive, how are we going to build affordable housing if the fees are so expensive. But I would like to have a different fee for affordable housing to make it affordable in a way.

Well, this is for market rate developers to opt out of building affordable housing. So you want them to pay a lot of money so that we can build the affordable housing.

Well, I understand that. But I was saying, if we build affordable housing, so they don't need to pay an in lieu fee. OK. So that's what I wanted to know, if they had to pay the loan fee.

It's only if you're not building them. Okay. That's correct.

Greg had a slide. Oh, Greg's next. But Greg already talked twice. I know.

Oh, you're not. You're not done. You're still up, Mary.

I just wanted to have planning staff reiterate why it is with the, it being able to be called up or appealed to council, why they're not comfortable making some of these decisions. It's planning staff or planning commission, both.

But then we miss out on all your wonderful land use experience and expertise. And I value that so much sitting up here as a perspective, as part of the consideration.

And how does that differ from a staff report that we would get from you when we were reviewing the item, other than the staff time required to make the staff report?

And that brings up another question. When is it that we find out whether someone is going to want to implement in lieu? Is it at the time of application or can they do that AFTER ENTITLEMENTS. LET'S TAKE A WILD EXAMPLE, SOMEPLACE LIKE ON THE COAST THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE 1200 UNITS IF WE APPEAL THIS, CAN THEY BUY THEIR WAY OUT OF THE AFFORDABLE UNITS?

And I'm sorry, I really should have thought of that before.

Could you put that on the screen for us as well, please? We can have Minnie Karen up in the corner.

Thank you very much. That makes me feel much more comfortable.

I want to go back to this issue of fees and appropriate use of affordable housing fees whether in lieu or What was the other one? Housing Action Fund that Is there a place in this study that's being done or elsewhere were these that appropriate and potential uses of those fees is codified and

THE REASON I BRING IT UP, AND THE CITY MANAGER ALLUDED TO SOMETHING I WAS THINKING, THE IN-LIEU FEES WOULD BE USED FOR FILLING THAT GAP FUNDING, THAT I ASSUME, I CAN ONLY IMAGINE, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU GET ADDITIONAL FUNDING THROUGH HEART OR THROUGH THE COUNTY PROGRAMS. BAFA presentation three times now, it's all imaginary conjecture for me because we haven't done it in Pacifica. So I put myself in the place of one of those places. They refer to two projects in Daly City, two projects in South San Francisco. And I've heard about various projects throughout the county. And so I always kind of go, hu

That's helpful. And that's not 15% every year that you can use and take out of that?

Yeah. And economic development staff too. Okay.

Thank you. I have a few questions that I want to, if it's possible, to pull up the staff report, page 397. because I think it'll be easier to see them. And while that's being pulled up, I just want to do a time check. So I'm hoping we can finish everything by 11, and we don't need an extension. That's our goal, and we'll check in.

No, that's right. We still have to go back into closed session, but to finish the regular meeting by 11. I'm hoping we can do that, but I know we usually do a check-in at 10.

So... And I need you to be mindful. I have to go to work early. So if you just don't...

All right. We're all right anyway. Okay. So just a general question about the in lieu fee payment. So at the bottom... Item 4 says the council shall approve the in lieu fee alternative if all of the above requirements are satisfied. So this seems to me to say that we don't really have a lot of say if a developer is proposing an in lieu fee and we don't really want to take it.

Okay. And is that 20% something that's limited by state law or?

But that number was recommended to us. Like, if we wanted to make it 25, could we make it 25? Or are there limits to make it reasonable as part of a nexus study, et cetera, et cetera?

And then that's what triggers like a takings risk or something that you're making it so that it's just an impossible...

Because I've got a few more questions. And then on item three where it talks about the use of the money, can it also be used to buy land for affordable housing? I guess I didn't see that as a specific possibility. Yes. yes yes okay that would fall under the provision of affordable housing okay great okay and then um on the next page um item d the off-site preservation option um d is in david right here on the screen now um does this help us with rena at all or this does it not if So I mean, if they're providing units, then we count those. If they're providing money, hopefully we're building un

WONDERFUL. THAT'S SOMETHING. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME GETTING TO THOSE NUMBERS. LEARN SOMETHING NEW EVERY DAY. THE LAWS ARE ALWAYS CHANGING. I WASN'T JOKING WHEN I SAID THERE'S BEEN AT LEAST 100 CHANGES IN STATE LAW.

Page 398. April 1st, 2027. And a little bit further down because it goes on to the next page too. So this is just about the appraisal of the land to get a valuation. And it says costs associated with the appraisal will be borne by the applicant. I think I've learned from Council Member Espinoza that appraisals can be done a number of creative ways. And I want to make sure that the city is driving the appraisal process and not the developer.

Right. But if we're presented with an appraisal... We are...

I wanted to make sure of that, because I didn't see that clearly in this language. And then on packet page 400, There's a combination option, which also includes a portion of land. And then this one doesn't say the city council has to approve it, or the land is really, the land seems to be more up to the city council to make the decision whether we want to take it or not, or the planning commission will make that decision. But with this one that includes land as part of it, is it still going back to we have to approve it if it's reasonable and meets the laws?

»» But if you think that line needs to go someplace else.

Samantha from Planning Commission. So could you tell us what you are seeing there? Because I'm not, you know, most of this ordinance, I'm like new here. So could you explain it to us, please?

Right, right. And especially for the last one, because some of the others, it talks about the city council, but this one didn't say anything.

Through the chair, can I ask a follow-up on that? From a fee perspective, how do we recover all those additional costs from all the staff time to put all that together to bring it to council?

Can we address the language that Samantha's talking about? So let's just not jump into other things. Let's fix that. That way we can move forward.

I think that's what they were talking about, is whether should the language be moved from that.

Yeah, and then we just had a little diversion here, yeah.

I think it's important. Okay. Yes. Okay, so would that be an amendment that you'd make

Thank you. From your city attorney brain. Yeah. Right? Okay. I think two more questions. I think we need clarification. On packet base 401. the for sale BMR units at the bottom. 4707. And actually scroll down a little bit further. Goes on to the next page. So this item two says for sale BMR units shall only be occupied by their owners. Renting, leasing, subleasing, or subleasing shall not be permitted for more than two months in any year. What came to my mind was our short-term rental ordinance that now allows for more than two months in the coastal zone. So might this be a conflict with that?

: And perhaps owners and their family. Female Speaker 2, M.D.

And then I think I brought this up at our study session, but one of the difficulties I'm hearing about affordable housing and multi-unit buildings that have HOAs and HOA fees are just the burden of those HOA fees, right, that make the projects unaffordable. And I didn't see anything in here that touched on that. Is that something that's being considered in the NEXA study? I mean, can we restrict raises and HOA increases?

That's all I had. Do you have another question still?

I would love to express my appreciation to legal staff and give them fair warning that I intend to make a motion including inheritance language and fixing that language we discussed earlier and fixing the fee adjustments around the in lieu of fees as well.

Okay. And then you had several questions for us that we haven't talked about or answered. So one was the opt-in investing. I don't see any downsides in that. I mean, do you see any? I do not see any downsides. Because, I mean, if they choose to accept it, they'd be paying more. They can pay an NLUFE, but they'd be paying more than they were. That's correct. Yeah, okay. Do we want, like, a vote on each thing that you're asking?

Yeah, I think it would be helpful for us to see it on... on the screen, too. If we could just, like, exactly what decisions we are making, please, because there's been a lot of different discussion tonight. And also, you know, after seeing the Planning Commission's work and then having all of these new options, to me, it was just like, I don't know. Yeah. Yes. It was more than I bargained for.

And Samantha from the planning, so like I said, don't be shy. We want to hear from you.

It's just a way to say, to be. Speak up. We want to hear from you.

»» Okay. So this was something you wanted a specific vote on or this is just part of approving the ordinance? clarifying that that's in here and been added.

Well, no, but I was asking about this in particular. So we don't have to do a separate vote on this because it's in... Right. It's just in the ordinance.

And we've prepared those and provided them in attachment H. »» And just as a follow-up question to that, at some point you mentioned that anything can be called up. But under the planning staff recommendation, You know, some of these projects are ministerial, and so nothing would ever be in the public. You would just be doing this yourself. So how could it ever be called up if we don't know about it?

But how do we know about it? Like, I have no idea what you're doing right now with all these different projects that you're processing.

And to be honest, I want to follow the Planning Commission recommendation. It makes me feel much better. And I won't say anything. I'm ready to go home.

I think part of the concern, and for me too, and this is where I'm leaning towards the Planning Commission's recommendation, is that there were some shady things that happened with the Harmony One fee. in Luffy that were the units and a dedication of land were part of the agreement that was hard won by the public. And then somehow something happened that didn't come to the public where all that changed. And, and especially if some approvals are happening that aren't in the public eye, you know, at least while we're sorting this out for a while, I personally would rather see any alternatives co

They call it do on call. They don't have to sell the property to another person.

Okay, and before we get into that, it's 5 to 11, so I'm going to make a motion that we extend the meeting to 1115, and let's try to be fast and do this. My concern with all this is that we haven't really thought it through and it's really late. And the nice thing about a reset is that it means that it still continues to be an affordable unit for generations or otherwise it becomes a market rate unit at some point. I understand what you're trying to do with generational wealth. But I also heard that the property still will be increasing in value, so a family would be making more money over time

Yes, that's an amendment. That's what I was going to say.

Yeah, because I want to revisit it, because what I heard was, like, usually this happens, or generally this happens, and so to have a little protection would be nice for them. But we don't know what that looks like tonight.

People aren't going to build generational wealth through this vehicle, so we're just fooling ourselves if we're trying to say that that's one of our goals. It's just not true. So that's what it is I'm trying to address, and I'm okay to be outvoted on this, but I just want to speak clearly that I want future Pacifica families of lesser means to be able to build generational wealth.

Absolutely, and I don't think you're being outvoted. I think we need to, I would like to address it, to see it on a future agenda.

But there are many components to that. That's why the city attorney wanted to, if you want to give the property to the widow with three kids.

Yeah, I would definitely like to see it on a future agenda so we can talk about it more.

Okay, so are we at the point where we're just looking at the revised language from city attorney?

No, because there was a fixed income or fixing the adjustments. for the recapturing of fees in lieu of that I didn't think was in there that the gentleman mentioned that we could do for the alternatives, the additional staff time fee, that additional fee.

Oh, but I think that would come with the next assessment.

I think that would come later. Exactly. Yeah, that wouldn't be part of that. I just want to make sure we address that too.

I see a little concern from Chair Hauser, too.

Okay, Samantha. She's still shaking her head a little bit.

If you have an amply clear suggestion, please make it.

What about just the city council shall review and make a determination in accordance with the language below or something? Yeah.

I think we will move on. Does someone, if there are no other questions, can you put up the motion that we need to make and as amended?

Okay. Well, I move to introduce an ordinance of the City of Pacifica to repeal and replace Article 41, Density Bonus Program, and Article 47, Inclusionary and Below Market Rate Housing Program of Chapter 4 of Title IX of the Pacifica Municipal Code as amended by Assistant City Attorney Karen Murphy.

Thank you, staff, heart staff, planning commissioners. It's a team effort. We really appreciate you all.

So I'm not quite adjourning yet. Are there any council communications that are urgent tonight? I'm just asking. I don't see any. And no more say so. Okay. Well, I would like to, I know we did this a little bit last time, but maybe not as officially, but I'd like to adjourn our meeting in honor of Alex Ferguson, who we dearly miss. and whose life we will celebrate in a manner soon to be determined. All right. Good night, everybody. It is 11.06 p.m.