City Council - Special Meeting

All right. Good morning, Councilman. Good to have you with us. Are we all good in the back? Everything's up and going. Okay. All right. I'll go ahead and officially recognize a quorum this morning. Welcome to September 14th, 11 o'clock council meeting here to discuss a tax rate. So we're going to call ourselves into order. We'll open with public comment. We basically have item 2.1 to go over today, and that is it. So at this time, I'm going to see if I think the city secretary just stepped out to the back. so we'll wait one more minute and then we'll do public comment. Do I have anybody here w

Alright, seeing nobody, we're going to go ahead and move into our non-consent agenda. Item 2.1, discuss and consider proposed tax rate. Mr. City Manager, who do you have running this?

Yeah, I think if we can pause real quick council, let's take this bite at a time. So questions on. The proposal so far.

Yes, sir. So walk me through. So you covered a lot and spoken really fast in a very short period of time. Go. So from where we were. A week ago or whatever it is. Walk me through what we had wrong very slowly and simply so that I can make sure that I understand it.

And so to begin with, were we using the same calculations that we've always used before we got into this?

So have our TAP calculations always been wrong?

But to go into this, to begin with, we were using the same structure, philosophy, and then now that we began to look at it, we say we did something, it wasn't correct. So we don't have the right debt number. Have we always double dipped on the TIF?

And then, so in our original budget, we had 20 million going towards INS? Correct. 20.35? Yes, sir. And after we've gone back and figured all this out, where are we on what that INS actually is?

Because I'm looking on this, on number three, it says INS is 17.8 million.

Then can you tell me, so what was the amount of property tax in our budget for 25-26?

And then total, if we combine M&O and INS for this year? For current year? Yes.

Then can you give me this number? If we take the maximum... The voter-approved tax rate, if we say we're going to have that, what would be the total property tax income if we take advantage of the full? Yes. How much more property tax revenue will we get? What will be the total amount that we'll receive if we do the maximum tax that we're allowed without a vote?

So we go on the no new revenue, we're actually getting some new revenue.

So if we take the maximum rate, that's $7 million more in property tax in this upcoming year than we got the previous year.

Because we're saying we got 60.5 million.

And in the no new revenue rate, again, I know that it has a misnomer of that, but the $61,437, does that include new property? It does. And do we know what the value of the new property is?

Okay. Yes, sir. So if we take the full voter approved tax rate, Even if you subtract the $300,000 out, just for numbers sake, $60,000 compared to $66,000, somebody's paying $6 million more in property taxes.

Right now, that's looking at about a 10% increase. Okay, thank you.

Are you sure you're done? No, but I'll reserve the right. It seems like you're thinking. Councilman Prescott, how are you doing over there? You got anything you need to add? Blink twice if you can hear us there, David. I just saw the one. Maybe there's a delay. Okay, let me jump in. I don't see anybody lit up, so if David has anything, just wave at us, sir. Okay, let's go back to the TIF, which is tiers, pulled out 291 million, then you put it back in to get to the 16.9 million. The reason that jumps off the page is we've been working on that 16.9, I'm sorry, billion, that 16.9 billion in tax

You're capturing the total tax and then you're paying it out 1.2 million. Correct. Yes, sir.

And I got my two tax assessors out there. So just want to make sure that both Potter and Randall County seen all this, like the structure, according to the tax code, everything's in the right box.

OKAY. I'm following along then on the tiers and kind of see what we're doing there. Are we budgeting based on a 98.5% collection rate?

And then typically we collect, what, 99.8% of taxes?

Do those monies eventually end up in that available fund calculation? They end up in our reserve?

Okay. Yes, sir. Let's go to your revenues here. Well, before we do that, let's go to your debt. Okay, so you guys got the email from Bond Council that I hit him up on last week. And so I was trying to run the total payments for everything. And so beforehand, you guys had in our budget, if you go back to the The very, well, the back section, it's like a page 1,034, 1,035, something like that. You had our total debt service, 66.3 million. And so bond council has our total debt service, 62.01 million on his updated report. And then that doesn't account for what could be coming that's proposed in

So then in walking this budget forward, I want to make sure that we have a good principle of, you know, we found an error, we've gone back through, we've recalculated, we've figured this out, but we're applying it to just one little area of our budget. We're not applying it to the other enterprises. And then specifically, like we have transfers that I still can't see the transfers that are going back and forth. And so, Mr. Freeman, I'll ask you in a minute, but Mr. Path, I saw your light.

That's great. I think my biggest hesitancy is with these large water and sewer increases that are proposed. And I get that we've got monies that we're going to need for wastewater treatment plant, but we really need to be considerate in everything when it comes to that enterprise. And so I still feel like that enterprise is very healthy. I also feel like we're going to see more volume in sales based on the way that we're metering now and so I would like to go back through water and sewer and pull all that let's make sure those transfers aren't shifting going anywhere they don't need to we had

80.4. At the no new revenue. Okay. So we're now doing a good job of separating our revenues out from our expenditures. Are we done with revenues, like in analyzing those? Okay. Would we be willing to take another look at our revenues council? I still feel like our licenses and business fees are under projected and then we see these sales tax numbers continuing to push.

So before we get into the expenditure side and trying to figure out where the money goes, what are you projecting when you're taking into account the total now with these new numbers for NNR and Vader?

Yeah, what are you looking at on the sales tax?

90.5, 91, OKAY. Council, I'm going to ask one more time for direction. You have roughly a $1.2 million deduct from what you've ran consistently in business and licensing fees that would contribute to this. So does anybody have an appetite for projecting that number back up to what the actuals are that have come in before?

SO WHAT WAS THE ADJUSTMENT? WHAT DID WE ADJUST IT UP TO?

SO YOU ADJUSTED OUT THE POV PERMIT AMOUNT, THEN YOU TOOK THAT AS YOUR FLAT NUMBER, YOU ADDED BACK IN 300,000 FOR GROWTH.

At this time, can you roll that together and give us the 287 number? So general fund went from 281, 287. What is the total if you take into account the additional numbers? All these changes? Is that Miss Lola?

While she's looking, the reason that this is important for anybody who's watching or paying attention, we're fixing to discuss like, which which rate are we looking at here? Well, if you don't have a comprehensive understanding of the total amount of revenues that you're pulling in, it's really hard to just lean into property tax alone. And as you know, property taxes. They don't support 22% of our total budget, they're more than that, but we're not running the city on property taxes alone. So I'd like to see exactly where we're at on the total for the NNR and the total for the Vader, includin

Yeah, so really more like $287 almost. It was like $286.6, right? Yes, sir. So gentlemen, we're getting really close to where we've got a good revenue source right there to cover everything that we're looking at. And then we still have an opportunity to move some of these monies around. So before we go on the expenditure side and move on with the calculations, does council have anything else they'd like to cover?

So sales tax revenue. So where are we forecasting to finish this year?

And so the original budget that came to us, what was the, I have 83.8 million originally when we started this.

Okay, but the original budget was $90 million?

And we had the budget all put together, raises, all that. And then now we have another $2.5 million.

And then you said that we are looking at about $61.4 million of no new tax revenue, property tax if it comes in. And then how much did we have budgeted in the budget to receive?

But what we have built, and then we factor in sales tax. So the good news is for taxpayers is... This no new tax rate can pay for what we've got in the budget.

Okay, so that sales tax putting it over and then this new calculation of the no new tax revenue rate means the budget that we proposed can be completely covered. Yes, sir. And keeping the no new tax revenue rate on property tax.

Okay. Council, anything further? All right. Mr. Freeman, will you keep going? Nicole, can you hear me? Yes, sir. Mr. Prescott.

I don't have any. I just wanted to make sure you could hear me. I don't have any comments at this time. Thank you.

We'll check back in with you. Thank you.

Real quick, sir. Yes, sir. So on the police side, this does include the additional steps that they ask? It does not. It does not.

Mrs. McMurray, you're here. Mr. Warren, you're here. So really appreciate you guys participating in our meetings and then participating in the homework. We just need confidence that our numbers are plugged in the correct way where they go. I don't know that we have a complete understanding of how the numbers get conveyed to you guys. So here's what I would like to make sure. Do you have documentation? So you certify these numbers when you sign them. And so do we send you data? Do you have paperwork? Is there a paper trail of everything that we've done so far? So start with Mrs. McMurray, if yo

Okay, that's good to hear. So, Mr. Warren, do you have everything as well on your side? I'm assuming we feed you data, you feed that over to Randall County?

Okay, yeah, I think that's really where I'm drilling in is, you know, if you were given a number of, say, 20.9 million, right, we're having a hard time going back through to see where did that number come to you, like, how did we get it wrong?

In the questionnaire? Yes. Okay, so there's a paper trail. So we can go back through that questionnaire. We can see that that 20.9 was placed on that, and then you just worked from that number. So if we find the error on our side, then we do what we've done. We come to you, and we have you adjust that.

Okay, and then the number that you are now working on lines up with, and this is a city staff question, lines up exactly with Bond Council's statement. Is that correct, Mrs. O? There we go. Thank you. yes sir okay um good well so council do do you guys have confidence that everything has been taken care of double checked documented so let me let me follow up on this so tell me again what went wrong here you want me to go

So in this truth and taxation form, we have to give you a number. and then you do some computations, and then you give us a number back that goes in the Truth in Taxation form?

Fortunately, I have not. Okay. Go ahead. Okay.

Have you encountered anything like this before with other taxing entities or having to verify? We have.

So I guess when you're doing your computations, you may say, hey, this is what it looks like, and they want more money or whatever. There's a disagreement on what the figure is.

Right. And I guess, and has the city ever come before in a kind of a, I mean, maybe a discrepancy before to try to resolve with you? Or is this kind of the first time that this has happened as far as you remember?

Would this particular issue be a one-time mistake, or could there have been some issues that we had previously that we just never followed up on?

So really the mistake this year was just the miscalculation of the debt.

And then just walk me through one more time how the error occurred on the debt part of it.

Yes, sir. I'm still trying to figure this rate out. Because if you take a simple calculation of 0.4307 times the 3.5, it doesn't get you to the 445252. So what is the difference in the way they calculate? What are they putting in there? Which also means that the increase is more than 3.5%.

Councilman, I know the 3.5 doesn't equate just to the pennies. It'd be nice if the state of Texas maybe had considered the communication piece of this more so than the computation, right? Because it's very difficult to communicate to the taxpayer what the actual is that can be approved on this side of the dais. That's only relevant if we're trying to push all the way up to that number, right? If we believe there's a chance we can take care of staff, continue to invest in the organization, and take care of our taxpayer down at a lower rate, then whether it's .447 or .5 or 452 doesn't necessaril

And so, you know, I'd say the warning flags that we sent up here were not minded. And so, what I would like is just to know that there's some sort of double check out there. that a future mayor and council aren't gonna sit in the position of trying to figure that out. So I think bond council and the debt schedule, I think audit committee, places like that would be really good for people to be able to sit that have the time to double check that. And then just looking at the rates and the calculations, I think it's a good one that we caught it. So I'm thankful that we've got a really good proble

This is a simple question, but I think since I've got... Your tax rate, whether it goes up or down, that's not the way to figure out if people are paying more taxes. Is that correct? So tax rates can go up, but your property taxes could go down. So would you say a tax rate would be the best way to determine whether we're collecting enough tax or not enough tax? I mean, there's another factor that goes into it, correct? Which is the values of the property. So if you're trying to do, I'm seeing this comparison being made, but we've had several years where we've gone down on our tax rate, but you

Councilman Prescott, we can't see you, but we still can hear you. Do you have anything you'd like to add, sir?

Okay, so he logged out. Did he text anybody that he has something to contribute before we move forward? No, not right now. We'll come back to him to make sure that there's nothing we skipped over. Thank you guys for speaking. Appreciate you. Thank you, Mayor. Okay, we've got a task in front of us here. Discuss and consider proposed tax rate. As you know, it can be the highest tax rate that you could pass, and then you could always consider something else. But I think with the painstakingly slow process that we've gone through here, I'd like to arrive at a rate that we know we're comfortable on

Well, I do have one more question about the budget, if I may. I wanted to ask, kind of focusing on reserves. So I was looking at our employee health insurance reserve, which is $6 million. And the last four, so a reserve just for education's sake, we have reserves. What are those reserves for?

But for a variety, I mean, we probably have 8 or 10 or 12 different funds that have reserves. And then we have ways that we determine how much reserve we should put back in each of these. I guess we have... Are these all policies? Is it staff determination? How do we determine what the reserves are?

Yeah. But basically, the reserve is set back for emergency purposes. Yes. Correct. And across the board, we have 60, 90, 100, and there's formulas. So my question is, when I go back and look at our health care claims, I've got, according to the budget, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, health care increase over the last four or so years has increased about 33%. It may be 32% or 31%, but would you disagree that we've seen significant increases in our health care costs over the last three years?

I'm talking about what we have budgeted and to pay out in the budget. For claims. Health care expenses, yes. A third would probably bid. So I guess my question is, why has the reserve for health care stayed at $6 million? In fact, I think this year, we're budgeting less than $6 million, $5.76 million, when it would seem to me that as health care costs increase, would not our reserve increase?

Well, yeah, because I got that information as well that you sent to me, and I think what our consultant said is generally a reserve target is 60 to 75 days. Yes, sir. And I think I was told that we are 48 days. So is our reserve just something that we go off a consultant telling us? Or is there not a city policy or a council policy on those health care reserves?

Yeah, well, and it looked like we ended up this year with about, I mean, when I look at, let me see here, when I look at what I was, you know, if we were to go to, I don't know, 60 days, we're about 1.7 million shy. I mean, at 48 days, if you take 6 million, divide it by 48, and you add those additional 12 days, much less if you add another 25 days of that. So my concern is, do we have enough setback for that. I know it's a reserve. We hope not to use it, but it seems like it's a little lower than it, than it should be.

Well, it just seemed to me, again, are we going off with the consultant? To me, I could see where, okay, as costs increase, our reserve needs to increase.

I would say that. Here's the other thing is, and again, this is just me looking at it, so I could be wrong, and most likely hopefully I am, but I'm looking at fleet service, and I'm just taking off what's in the budget and kind of what we're stating in the budget where we're where targets are, but it looks like fleet services may be below its stated target reserve. Risk management could be below after transferring, I think, about $3.7 million out of that fund. So I guess what I would like to see maybe hopefully on the 22nd, before we adopt this budget, can we get kind of a simple schedule for

Yeah, because I just don't think we need to be depleting our reserves. I mean, that trend could wind up being a real problem. So if we could kind of just get an update on where we are, whether we would need to change anything in this budget. or at least look at changing something in future budgets to make sure we have the appropriate amount of reserves set aside.

Okay. Um, really good. Well, I love the reserve questions. Um, I think we need to continue to dig in. I know. We were previously reserving too much because we were reserving a total. Uh, in the general fund to run the city, and then we had independent, um, we call them what inner. departmental or intergovernmental, interlocal, what do you call interdepartmental transfers? So with those, they were reserving on top of reserves. And so I think I have a lot of confidence in knowing we have our general fund reserve that's healthy. And now each one of these independent departments that are set up in

Okay. I'll take the 287 because I had it at 286.6. And so I think if we could say 287, what does that get us to here? If you're looking down the line, you guys are prepared to pull roughly 6.6 or 6.7 million over from reserves to balance that budget and keep us at our minimum or I'd say above our minimum. Is that correct? Okay, great. So what's not included in that in council, I'm going to attempt with, unless you guys want to pull the reins in, I'm going to attempt to try to negotiate a few things that we don't have included in this. One thing that would be helpful would be $600,000 for pay i

The other thing would be to just take a small amount of money and put it into what we could call a senior citizen's account. And when I say small amount of money, I mean just even $100,000, not even $500,000, but just to put it into an account, create something there that could be, I don't know if it goes through, parks and rec, if it goes through community development. However, we have good entities around town that provide services for seniors and they could apply to that. That money then could be able to get out into, you know, I hate to say it, but I mean, it's great organization, but like

Okay, so the beta rate would bring in $6 million more than what's been proposed with the 800,000 sales tax. Okay. I would say that if we took all of our pay increases, and this is very important to talk about the people that aren't in the room right now are our boots on the ground. And so if we want to continue to get, you know. mainline repairs at 2 AM and stay healthy in our core services and infrastructure growth and build out the city. I want to say it was somewhere around, was it another $400,000 to get an additional 1% increase?

711. So between the PD and the fire department, it was another 800 or so.

1.55 million. Across the board? Across the board.

And if we look at another 600K for the positional increases. We're at 2.1 million. And then my only other ask is just to start going down the senior citizens road. So that's 2.2 if you did 100,000. Yeah.

Well, I'm curious if I am looking at that. So I've always disagreed. I feel like we run a budget once a year and I feel like we have always communicated that we have annualized expenditures that are every year expenditures and then we have one time expenditures. And though I want to kind of, you know, drift that way and say, yes, a project that we go and do for a million dollars once that project is over, then, yes, we don't need that million dollars there anymore. But I believe the entire budget is a one time expenditure. We make one time decisions once a year and the healthier they are, the

Okay. Another one, while they're working on that debt service, 802, 925, right below that. What is that? We just spent an inordinate amount of time talking about debt service, and it's all built in on a whole other page. So why do I have $800,000 for debt service on this page?

Yeah, but they're covered already under INS. So, like, why am I double-dipping it, deducting it out of here? The INS goes straight into that debt. The INS is already calculated.

CAN WE LOOK AT THAT, STAFF, AND SEE WHAT THAT IS AND WHAT THE 5.5 IS? WE'VE GOT A COUPLE WEEKS BEFORE WE'VE GOT TO ARRIVE AT THIS. I PERSONALLY FEEL LIKE WE COULD PRODUCE A BALANCED BUDGET AND STILL STRETCH ABOUT $2 MILLION, PUSH FOR 4% PAY INCREASES ACROSS THE BOARD.

And Mrs. O, that is not already factored for transfers out of those budgets? Because, go ahead, I'm sorry.

Yeah, I think we're going to have to dig into these transfers quite a bit deeper because that goes back to the $8 million in transfers where we're seeing some of that that's hot tax, some of that's M&O funded. It's all special revenue related. Yeah. Super difficult to track the way we break it down on this, but then let's take a break and let's come back. Let's take 10 minutes. We'll regroup, and then, Council, I'll be quiet and listen to you guys tell me what your plans are. Okay, we'll go ahead and call ourselves back into session here. Councilman Prescott texted me that he's got to jump off

Yes, sir. So councilman, I wanted to give you a minute to kind of weigh in on what you'd like to see council do as far as a potential rate and any budget priorities that you're still pushing for.

You know, I think that, um. You know, the critical things to me are making sure that everything is covered that we've listed, but I definitely want to make sure that all staff sees a strong increase in pay. You know, I liked a lot of the things that you were talking about earlier. I don't know which rate that is because there's so many options that we have. You know, from the VADER all the way to the NNR, there's many options in there. You know, it's, I'm gonna have to lean on you and the rest of the council on the exact number. I like the direction we're going right now. I do, Amarillo Public

Real good, Councilman, appreciate that. Thank you. Mr. Path or Mr. Freeman, if I can go back to you guys, I think you guys wanted to clear up just a few things that I had asked, and then we can move back over to Council on what direction they want to go.

Yeah, we confirmed that. Total revenues. And that's 287, right? And that is the NNR or VADR rate, just for the record.

So let me go back. That's the NNR rate, I believe.

No, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not. So let me make sure we're saying it clearly. Let's say 286. and some change. We'll get the exact number. 287 may be optimistic, but 286 is our NNR rate total revenues. Right now you have a budget proposal that is 280.8. Then we add in the additional grants and transfers, general construction, which y'all are calling one-time expenditures to get to our 287.9 budget as presented. So Mr. Freeman, do you want to double check me and make sure I'm not miscommunicating that? That's an essential point here of what we're getting done. Yeah, I'm double checking right no

So, the no new revenue rate gentlemen is somewhere around 286 and then we still have a few additional monies that we can plug in. And so, Mr. Freeman, you had 800,000 that you were comfortable with in sales tax and then we had like another. $300,000 from licensing.

Yeah, that's where I'll get lost. If we go back and we try to say, well, it'll bring this plus that. Let's just keep our revenues totally separate. So no new revenue rate. brings in M&O, INS, and then when we go back through our projected sales tax and everything else that we've got in there, we're over the 287, I believe. I'm not going to say a million and a half, but that's roughly what I've heard when we are taking licensing and business sales tax as they're no longer projected, but they're actuals and what we're comfortable with. And there might have been an additional AMOUNT THAT WE WERE

YEAH, SO BREAK THAT DOWN I GUESS IN THE ADDITIONAL OPERATING INCOME THAT COMES IN FROM ALL OF OUR OTHER SOURCES And if you need a minute, let's make sure we get this number right before we communicate it out. But what I'm looking for specifically is the gross revenues that we would take from the existing budget that we're not messing with, but then considering the additional things that we're bringing in. I think we're over the 287. I'd just like to know by how much. From all sources, correct? Yes. General fund. Increase in sales. Yeah, all general fund. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, Council, let's go bac

Mr. Freeman presented that everything that was kind of given in the budget as asks and priorities would be covered under the old Vader rate, right? That's what we were looking at. Now the no new revenue rate we now know is equal to all that. It'll cover all of those proposed expenditures plus $1.8 million is what I heard.

So I think that's really good news. So whether that's 280.5 or 287 or however we get there once we walk the rest of the grant monies and all the other stuff that comes in. But that is what I'm looking to hear. So thank you for doing that. Council, it's almost 1 o'clock, and I've got to get you moving. So somebody needs to jump in here with some opinions. How do you want to spend this money, folks?

Thank you, Councilman. Councilman Reed, do you have anything you'd like to offer?

As we look at the no new tax rate, that's generating us $1.8 million more.

So should we be looking at ways to spend that? Or should we be a little bit more conservative? Is there any debt that we can write off? Because it is the taxpayers' dollars. And I agree with putting some money into the senior citizens. I know that we need a fire training facility, a new facility. I mean, that would be something that serves the public that I think if we're going to spend some money, that's probably where I would like to see it. You know, over the last few years, I think the courts have been looking for monies to renovate and do some things in the courthouse. There may be some o

Okay. Thank you, sir. Councilman Prescott, it's almost 1 o'clock. I know you said you had to jump off soon. Do you have anything else you'd like to offer?

Okay, thank you. Councilman Simpson, would love to hear your thoughts.

So our goal today is, today is our deadline to vote on a not to exceed. Correct. I would say this, because I've been hearing a lot of discussion going around the community, and people say, boy, our tax rates are low. And look how they compare. But I asked this question earlier today because the tax rate is only a portion of the equation. Property values are the other part. And what really matters and why I wanted to focus on this, what matters is how many dollars are we taking in? Because when we take in more dollars than we did before, that's a tax increase. Somebody's got to pay for it. Some

Thank you for jumping in there and kind of telling us where you'd like to land.

That is in the form of a motion, if you don't mind, and then we can second, and then we can have discussion, and then maybe determine where we're going.

Yeah, so we do have a motion. I'll ask for a second right now. Okay, I don't hear a second. Let's continue with our discussion. We'll come back to that because I don't think that's an incorrect motion. I don't know that it's the best yet.

And that's my concern. I think it's a good motion. It may be where we land, but right now we want to make sure that we don't put ourselves in a bind. I think that's what we're being asked to do today is what's the ceiling that we won't go above? And I just don't think it would be prudent to say let's set that as the ceiling because the only place we can go then is lower, which we may want to do anyway. But where that number falls, I don't know. it's uh that's going to be a tough question you know if we kept the rate where we are this year at the 4307 that generates a little bit more income als

I would agree. I like, can you hear me, Mayor?

I like that idea of setting the ceiling and then identifying if any additional data comes in. And if it is the proposal that Councilman Simpson said, then that would be good, but give us a little bit of room on the ceiling.

So let me clarify the statement. It's very specific the way I'm going to state it. This would be a proposal to keep the tax rate flat and still increase revenues onto the organization based on, I'd say, some of the financial health in the community. So that's a proposal to keep the tax rate flat. The NNR rate is how far below that? Can we get the exact? Is it one penny?

Yeah, so Councilman Simpson would be in favor of lowering your tax rate one penny to the NNR, and I may be as well. But then today, I think if what I'm hearing is I have a council that doesn't want to go to a Vader and go to a .5, .45 plus, then I still feel like we can accomplish everything that we're trying to accomplish, prioritizing some of the personnel needs that we have. And as much as I'd love to say, like, we lowered taxes, right? We have raised your taxes every year. We've just done it in the smallest amounts, you know, incrementally possible to still keep everything going. And I kno

I don't want anybody to imply that I'm not in favor of giving raises. I'm supporting a budget right now that does exactly that. But I'm just saying there's other factors that come into play on this. I don't want anybody coming out and saying, oh, Les, don't want to give anybody raises. I do. I realize that. But now we're talking, you know, it's like we found out last week at our Tuesday meeting, wow, we could get some more money. And instead of saying, wow, it's like, oh, can we go spend it? Well, this budget that we all agree to could be now funded without having to increase property taxes. A

Yeah, let's go back through that real quick. No new revenue rate accomplishes everything as proposed in your previous budget proposals, plus it generates $1.8 million based on the revised sales tax component projection.

But the sales tax doesn't factor into the tax rate. No. That's a whole separate rate. I'm just saying the property taxes, I mean, let's just go to property taxes first.

so when we do the no new tax revenue rate that's an additional eight hundred thousand dollars and eight hundred forty three thousand four hundred thirty seven that majority has been built in already that some property tax owners are going to have to pay yes so yeah okay so it's eighty thousand and then but just in last week we found and this is what i brought up before you know when we went into this budget now we're now we're finishing much better on sales tax My whole issue is why can't we provide more property tax relief and we could still be able to do this budget.

What would you propose? Councilman Simpson?

Oh, I've made my proposal. I mean, I understand that. some things can come up, but I'm just focusing on a budget. We've got the opportunity with this robust sales tax with $43 million of money that's been freed up. I'm thinking, man, at least one time we could look at the potential of being able to do this. I think the budget, it is what it is. I understand we have other needs, but at some point we're going to... That's probably one of the reasons why the governor wants to get involved in this. It's just being able to look at it. Because, you know, a property tax is, I mean, I don't have the o

And I would agree with you, but we're not here to make that final decision today. And that's the issue that I have. If we were a week away at the end of the month, what is it, the 28th? 22nd is first reading. Right. Would agree with you that's where I think that's where we should be but right now As we look at this and trying to figure out what that ceiling should be that we cannot exceed that I just think it would it would be It wouldn't be prudent on our part to adopt that low rate right now the no new rate and then find out that we needed something and I'm not seeing this.

I'd like to make it, I would like to make a motion that we accept the VADR rate for the ceiling and get the additional data and on the 22nd at the next meeting set the, I guess that's when we'll set the final one. I would like to make the motion to accept the VADR rate now.

I'll second it. Okay, I have a motion and a second for the ceiling to be at .45252 otherwise stated as the VADR rate. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR LEGAL COUNSEL. LEGAL, WHAT IS THE VOTING REQUIREMENT OF THIS? IS IT A 3-2 VOTE THAT'S NEEDED, 4-1? HOW DOES THIS ONE WORK, SIR? Just a majority vote. Thank you. I will entertain further discussion. I would start by saying I don't think we're moving up to that. I feel like we have been around this mountain so many times. We've double, triple checked numbers. Everything's come back like it should, I believe. I think the most we would be trying to spend would

I don't think we're hamstringing ourselves. We're just taking one option off the table. There are other options.

But this would not be the only option. There could be other options if we wind up, if something comes up.

So if problems come up, we could seek somewhere else other than the taxpayers to solve the problem.

Good discussion. Do we have anything further? Okay. All in favor of adopting the ceiling at the .45252, otherwise known as the Vader rate, please say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed? No. No. No. Okay, motion fix. I love this council. We have got to be one of the best and strangest councils of all time.

So you had a nays from mayor, place four, place one.

Do I hear another motion? I would make a motion that we set the ceiling rate at the 2526 rate at 0.4307.

Second. We have a motion and a second to set the ceiling rate at 0.4307. Otherwise, the existing rate from 2526. Any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

Dang it, we already used our recess. Okay. All right, council.

Mayor, since I don't have the data in front of me, what was that second proposal? How far below the Vader is that?

Thank you. Thank you. Go scoot back over right there point four four six is what you're proposing done, correct?

Okay So I made a motion I second Okay, I have a motion in a second on point four four six. Do I hear any discussion? I I would like to volunteer a very little discussion. If we are intending on moving up to that rate, then we should accept it and put the ceiling out there. Do we have circus music we play? But if we know that we have plenty of monies within the existing tax rate and you can keep the tax rate flat, what is the caution that we're exercising?

Well, all I'm saying is I'm not approving a ceiling above the no-due tax revenue rate. Not now, not in the future. Well, that one's already been burned. If we need it, we can find it somewhere else. So for me, I don't see how it doesn't make sense. But that's just me.

We got a motion in a second. Any further discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. No. Same as last time, Ms. City Secretary. Okay. I'd like to make a motion that we accept. 0.4307, keeping the tax rate flat as our ceiling.

Yeah, but I mean, there's nothing says I can't make this motion again. Are you sure? Well, I'm pretty sure Robert's Rules of Order doesn't limit me from making a motion. Do I have a second? I have a second. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

Okay, I'm going to call the vote. Okay, I didn't hear from somebody. I don't know if we've lost audio. All in favor of accepting the tax rate at .4307, please say aye. Pause. I'm sorry, not accepting. Approving the ceiling. I apologize. Say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No.

Motion passes with a 3-2 vote. Ms. City Secretary, let's double check those. Voting for the flat tax rate of 0.4307 as the ceiling was Mayor place two and place one. Voting against was place three and four. Okay, great. Wonderful discussion, gentlemen. Really appreciate that. And thank you guys for working towards a good, acceptable rate. Mr. City Manager, do you have anything before we get out of here today? Okay. Does staff have good clarity on what we're trying to accomplish over the next two weeks?

Okay. Because we've had council that would like to see what can be, um, One, what can be taken care of within the no new revenue rate, right? And with our ceiling of 0.4307, the existing rate, we would like to see if you guys can bring those back and help prioritize that and propose more or less just two different looks at it. Yes, sir.

Okay. Thank you. Mayor, would you please think about Amarillo Public Health, please?

Yes, sir. We can definitely put that one in there. Yeah, I think we've got that covered.

We've got some other requests that we'll make sure we pay attention to. Yes, sir. Councilman Prescott, you got anything further?

Okay. Appreciate you being on. Thank you guys for attending today. You guys have a good one. You're adjourned. Thank you.