Board of County Commissioners - Regular Meeting

Sure. Attorney God, we're so grateful for another day's journey. We're grateful that you have closed us in our right mind. We pray that you'd be in the midst of this budget hearing, allow us to make good and sound decisions on behalf of the citizens that we serve. Thank you for every individual that represent the districts and every Employee that represent this county. I pray that you be our strength and our grace through all of these times in your son Jesus name You are a shepherd.

Mr. Chairman, if you will. Yes, sir. Because like each department or whatever cuts are being made or considered, I think we need a little bit more information. I want to be clear of what you said as it relates to the administration budget. You said one has been cut and the duties have been combined and another one with two. And all of this, you're saying what we're seeing, but you're not giving details. If something has been cut, what has been cut? Who has been cut? Who don't think so you can So, I mean I want I'm asking like what what's been cut because I Will try to wait but I still want mor

So you don't know who's been cut? Oh, I do, yeah, of course. Okay, it's public information.

Again, we can write them down, but even as we're going through. Can he write the questions? Oh, sure. Write your answers down. It's almost like this prison session is very generic. I mean, it's pretty, it's nice, but it's generic. It's not given detailed information. But thank you.

Okay. And I guess I'm asking because she stated that there has been a cut. So I'm asking, what has been cut? Proposed? You didn't say proposed. You said it had been cut. So I'm asking, what has been cut? Because I'm not aware. I'll come back to that. I'll come back to that.

Going back to the original questions, because again, this was very... generic, not detailed at all. Information is definitely in this big panther that I thought we were gonna actually go through, opposed to a synoptis of this budget. And so at the beginning, I heard 65% cutting of personnel.

Sorry, 65% of the budget is personnel that there were sent recommendations. I guess I'm trying to figure out who is this team that's making the recommendation. That's the first question. Who's making these recommendations?

Okay. And my original question was, when we first started this conversation, we were saying that, and I heard it very clearly, because I heard proposed cuts in most of the conversation that you stated, but originally you said a cut has already been made. And my original question was, what cut has been made? Special projects director. Okay. And that cut was made when? Today. Okay. All right. And so my concern becomes under... from proposed to actuality or reality, how we go from proposed to actually making these changes that has impacted or affected somebody's livelihood for 16 years that have

Wait, wait, wait. Back that up again. Hold up. You can't have five bosses.

So I've looked at this thing, and one of the things that just jumps out, so part of our cut comes because we're going to give $1.5 million to the Constitutionals.

So we're going to take the whole cut in the Constitutionals. You're going to have to revisit that. I mean, if we're going to get cut, I just honestly believe, guys, that everybody takes a little, and not us just take the 1.5. So to roll back, I'm going to get this straight. The rollback is, if we added, it'd be 72,409, right? Is that what you're saying?

But if we roll back, that should just be 1.2 million less?

So in general, the rollback should put us right back where we were, is my understanding.

Okay, so I say, hey, I want to roll back. Would that put us at the same rate we are right now with the increases in the property?

Okay, so I'm just trying to, I guess that Calhoun County mask catching up with me. And so I'm looking at 122,000 cut and I see the 1.5 million for constitutionals. And in my head, I'm trying to get it right because I get this, that we're going to have to. This person, that person, I get that. But that's where I am. And I do want to kind of understand more of the rationale with some of the reasons why we're going to take this road or that road. I mean, so I kind of, I do want to be a little more in debt. And I say that because we're cutting road and bridge, but road and bridge is already over e

So I don't mean that to be looking at you. I take that.

But it's kind of one of them things, guys, for me, it is. And the reason why I really want to go here is because we are going to have some very hard conversations. They're coming. And we are fixing to every poll I see is 70% plus. Now, I did go to a meeting with the governor, and the governor, who's leaving, said that there would be some kind of consideration for rural counties. And so you may turn around in December and not have near the pain that we thought we were going to have. Or we could turn around and realize that we're just not feeling the pain, that we ain't even close to where we're

Thank you, Commissioner Wood. Did the governor say he apologized for this mess? Because that's what he should have said.

You know, the thing, the problem comes... The problem with Commissioner Olney was talking about how he's going to put millions of dollars back in people's pocket, and that's how they settled it.

Well, that's how they got those million, 1.3 million that come in to vote in the last election, the way he wanted them to vote, and he promised them a tax cut, and that's what he did. So that's why we're in this mess. I could not speak to... the the directors and a good thing about not being reelected I can just say what I want to say I love it and mr. attorney I need you to bring me some information to human resources as zero zero one human resources department personnel that's a minus ninety four thousand eighty four dollars mr. administrator why is that I'm going through this because we cou

Can you tell me where you're at, Ms. Hall?

Oh, yeah. The first part of this big book that we should have gone through in June. Oh, I just took it out the front of the book, Tony. I was like, this is such a mess. It's not your fault, sure. It's the administrator's fault. It's right behind budget overview.

Okay, let's stop right there. That specialist position was doing what? Mr. Administrator, they were doing what? Because if we're going to cut, we need to know what they were doing.

Okay. I know. I've been over there. Okay, Mr. Administrator, what are some other things that are not getting done?

I want to know the specialists with some things that they were doing that you're cutting out. And I need to know what they were doing so that way we'll know what those services were.

I want you to answer. You went up there and cut Laura Bradley today. You fired that woman today. So now you fired her today. I want to know why these cuts are here today.

I don't blame you because you won't win.

I didn't ask you for cuts. I asked you to speak to the directors so we could talk. I don't care what you do. But I'm saying I need to know what's included in that $94,000.

Well, it's money. There it is right there. Well, the services that are being cut. We're telling people we're going to cut in these positions. Normally, when you, wait a minute, let me explain to you how budget really works, because she knows, but you didn't put, you didn't require anything to be put next to these. If you're going to cut $94,000, what you do is you put next to it what those services were, because that's what we've been asking for. What services are being cut? Well, you're the one who told them to do this, right? Yeah, all right then. What's the $94,000 for in personnel?

OK, so that $94,884 is not there. So that position, I just need to know what that person was doing. That's all. Because they're short-handed. There was no person in it. Okay, there was no person. Okay, see, stuff like that makes sense.

And that's on page 3? 3-2C. 3-2C. Okay, now, ladies and gentlemen, I'm looking. I'm looking on, what I'm looking at that list is on 3-1A, so they'll know where I'm looking at. Now, you see, again, I'm sorry. 3-2C.

That's on where it says total salary of the benefits that occurred, where it says that, $38,787.

Yeah, I can see the amounts. But you understand what I'm saying? On the comments, there's nothing.

Ms. Raynette, I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm just being honest with you. I'm looking at him to tell us why these numbers are here, because he's our employee. So I'm not looking at you to explain this. He's our employee, and we should have this information. Here. I went to each one of those that have a parenthesis around them or they have a minus sign in front of them. That was a cut. And so it was a cut that should be a justification. It's a reduction from last year's adopted budget. I know. I was an accounting major at one time before I got crazy and went into education. But what

I don't need a definition. I need to go to the next one, Mr. Administrator. On this, under that $40,000 on indigent hospital services, that's 001, $40,000 that's being cut. Tell me about that.

There's no definition next to that either. Pardon me? There's no definition of what happened there either. OK. Let's go to the next one. $83,000 public information office.

On that budget, if you don't mind. Yes, on point. That $83,000, that shouldn't have been all from general revenue for public office department. It's all from general revenue. Because I thought that part of that money came from another tourist development. I know that. But I just thought that that was included, that $83,000. So that was all from general fund.

All from general fund. Okay. So now, where's that defined at, Mr. Administrator? Mr. Administrator, where's that defined at? Where's the definition of these? See, this is not a good budget because it doesn't have the explanations out here to the side. And I was thinking that, okay, we're going to go ahead and get to it now today because October 1st is coming up. But all the way down this page... $284,170. That was a cut. That's in county administrator, county administrator. I know you should be able to tell me about this when it's in your department.

Explain what's been cut. I just explained. No, you didn't. No, you didn't. She explained something. I told you. But there's only one position. Sir, you can stop talking now. You're the employee. Remember. Now, I'm telling you that this is supposed to be defined. That's how we decide. You got people at the house right now saying, Ms. Holt, what are y'all going to cut? Ms. Holt, why did y'all cut that woman? I have no idea. But what I am saying is this doesn't make sense if it doesn't have definitions next to it. You're giving us a general PowerPoint presentation of a budget.

No, you do not. No, you do not. You do not have a definition by these items. You do not have anything next to that animal control, that $185,121 cut. Now, that's all I'm asking for. Now, we have gone over this before. When I first got here, back in the early 2000s, we went through budget line by line because we had to make some cuts for that 07, 08 year. So you see what's happening. And I ask for these to please let us go through this budget. If something's happening over there at the VA office, we'll be able, that gentleman can answer. We're not getting any answers. We're getting a PowerPoint

We had them. We couldn't ask questions about them because they said, the majority of the people up here said, well, you know, this, that, and the other. But we still didn't get a chance to ask the questions. And we still need to ask these questions. Mr. Woods, if you're there saying go to the rollback, we need to know what we're rolling back and why. And that's what I'm asking. It's not her fault. All I asked to do was speak to those administrators. I could have checked this all weeks ago. And I'll have some more comments in a few minutes.

Yes. I just too want just more details on the actual cuts, and especially when it comes down to positions. And well, I guess I shouldn't be looking at you because you Again, you're not my employee. When it comes down to these cuts and these positions, we do need to, let me just say what I would do. How about that? Because I always try to put myself in other people's shoes. If I had the opportunity to serve as interim county administrator, I would publicly have a conversation, like a meeting like this, with my board stating these are the cuts that we are going to have to make, and this is why.

You can get it. Commissioner Woods. So there's a balance here. And I realize that the balance has came to me. And I have the balance of people telling me about losing their homes. And they can't pay their insurance and their property tax. And I mean, I can't even go to the store. And that's what people want to talk to me about. And so for us, it's this thing that if we're going to cut $1.5 million because we're giving that to the Constitutionals right off the top, So who does go? And we can sit here and talk about who makes the list and who does this. I'd be glad for every commissioner up here

No, my hand was up a long time ago. I put it down because I got tired. Okay. Yes, it is this board's decision to decide on who is being cut at budget time. We decide on which departments, which positions we won't cut. That's what we do. That's why we are. You don't decide what people are cut. Sir, listen. We didn't tell you to fire anybody, OK? You don't have to. Sir, I'm speaking. So stop interrupting me. OK, now. We did not request you to cut anyone. We said. I have that authority. Sir, I'm still speaking. I don't care what you have. You have authority to be a male. I mean, just be quiet. OK

So. So what you do is this. You bring it to us, and you say, these are the positions I feel that should be cut. All I'm asking for is a definition next to them. All I'm asking for, and it makes it a lot easier, commissioners, as we've had before, that the directors came up and they explained what they needed to do, and it was out there to the total public. And you didn't have to go back and try to explain each one of these. It makes it a lot easier. Sir, I'm not speaking. I'm still speaking. We may not want the positions, not the person. There could be a vacant position in there. Boy says, don

So we don't have a director for COVID. Did you cut that position? For COVID? Yeah. The lady was over COVID. Who was working in that department?

You talking about the health coordinator?

Yeah, that. I'm not sure. Let me finish. That's what they were doing was distributing the COVID funding. That's what was there before. That's why we got a health coordinator.

Right. And are there any funds left in there?

OK, so that $100,000, approximately $100,000, will be spent during what? During this fiscal year. OK, but I'm saying, would it go out to the organizations that are distributing? Yes. All right, then. That's something that can be done. We can meet on an annual basis and take care of that. We don't need a person to run that department.

I know. I know. And that can be done split between another department. So that's a position that can be cut. There are several positions that I may feel that need to be cut. Commissioner Woods, Commissioner Green, and Commissioner Hampson. But we don't get to say so. So that's what I'm saying. We need to go through this budget. And we need, as I asked five months ago, let's just go through it and give it out to the people. That's for a skeleton budget. That's for a regular budget. Now, before also, Commissioner Woods, we have gone to the Constitution and say, can you take a 3%? We presented th

On point to what you're saying, Commissioner. I think that, Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. Do you, for me, we did the 10%, and I don't think we took it real. And now it's kind of like when you have this thing. I did. No, but the public's not getting it. And now it's kind of like, oh, my. And I think it's, we're late in the game. And I'm not going to say that we're campaigning. I don't think that's the.

But it's the educational side of this is what this brings to us. And I like the fact that you have things that you want to see. that you could take this instead of that. I absolutely, but I don't know. I'm the new guy. I don't know, Mr. Chairman, if they terminated people in the past.

Ma'am, I was going to finish up. Yes, sir. Yeah, we have cut positions in workshops, saying we don't want the, can you combine those positions? Can you do and share responsibilities? Now, we've done that before in the past. So it's not that we haven't cut positions. We didn't cut people. Because we decided two or three times we didn't need a coordinator over here. We needed something over there. And the board got a chance to have some input. This budget right here has no input, really, from the board. None. It has no explanations in writing of these cuts. And I don't care what anyone says. I d

Can I say something? Yeah, so my question is, how much time do we have? And I would love to let everybody have the opportunity to have a say.

I guess my question now is based upon the projected cuts, especially with staff. What are the projected savings? Mr. Administrator? Is it $3.5 million?

So we're going to say $3.5 million. Sorry? Three. Three? OK. And so how many jobs? Again, I just... How many affected? Yes. How many jobs, position, people? Are we talking about projective-wise? We're actually... It dealt with, I believe, 18... Not including positions that are not filled, just actual positions or individuals. 18 full-time. Five part-time. And do we have a plan to solidify those cuts if they become an actuality? What's the plan on making sure that the services are fulfilled, that our citizens are not shortchanged? And again, are those individual cuts or positions broken down in

OK. They said you need to cut the budget? Right. So again, again, that's fine. Come back with the cost savings. Let us see the cost savings. We didn't say implement the cost savings.

You going to take it out your general fund? As of right now, we have to come up with a plan before we just let these people go. What's the plan? Well, the plan. Let me finish.

Because I still have the floor. And that's fine. And again, don't have a problem with the recommended plan. that I would like, just like she just stated, there's a plan that y'all have. There's a book that y'all have that she's put together as a plan. I don't have it. As a board member, you got 18 four-time positions, five part-time positions that are being considered recommended to be cut. Recommended from by the director. I would like to see it. And even if I can't make a decision or say, oh, because there's day to day, at least we know what's coming. At least we know that these positions ar

I'm going to let you finish. And I let you talk, and I'm still talking. All right, go ahead. So again, that's a problem for me. Because now it makes me feel like, what's the reason that this was implemented today, same day notice? We should not do business like that with nobody. Nobody. Even if they got a rap sheet. Well, here's the other part. So you're going to talk. OK, go ahead. So again, my question to you is, why are we implementing recommendations that this board has not seen? And I said to all four other board members, we all should want to see the recommendations because it has become

Yes, the chair wasn't here. So he doesn't know. The chair been here for? He wasn't here. Those years that we were doing that, he wasn't here. So that's not true. Go ahead and finish. So I got my hands up next.

But you said a keyword. You did, but on point. Your keyword was projected. Right. But I want to hear this. Can you Google, or can you find out implementation? Not projected. Because we got to make those projections. Again, that's not the problem. That's not the problem here. Okay. And that's 2020.

Yes, thank you. As I said before, in June, when I went into that hotel, Franklin County was the first one that said they had their cut budget ready. They already had it ready. Mm-hmm. Why, Culler County had put this out before the public. They knew. And they got ready. And I came back here and said, let's get ready. No, we don't need to do that. They're going to think we're going to cut people. No, we should have done it then. And that way, we could have looked at those positions. What I'm saying, though, is this. You cannot sit back this long and wait. And the other thing is, how are we going

I'm sorry, I'm still speaking. OK, so now the bottom line is, if y'all got this little cheat book, we should have had it so we could look at it. Because when you go out that door, we're still going to have to explain it today.

Here's my question. No, I'm not finished. Because I'm going to say what I want to say today. Go ahead. And any other day. I don't need your permission either. Now, what I am saying, though, is this. We are going to have to explain this. I don't want to sit upstairs with the administrator and directors. It should be done right here in public so the public will know. They need to know. And it's a shame to go back in a back room and discuss the public budget, discuss the public services without putting it out front so the public can see it. If we can't afford WaysPro, whatever we're supplementing

And it needs to be done right here so we can hear what's going on with Road and Bridge. We can hear what may happen to Veterans Services, what may happen to the senior citizens. Stop this backroom mess.

Because they know the department. That's why. That's why. Hold up. I ain't going to hold up nothing. Let me finish. They know what they're talking about. You don't.

No, what they decided. They don't get to decide that. Well, they can recommend. Sir, you can say they can recommend and they can answer a question why that recommendation is there. We don't need to hear it from you because you can't explain it. That's all I'm saying.

No, it wouldn't be unfair because, see, what you're trying to do is take over what they're doing. They know their departments. That's why they made that decision. And we got to sit here and argue with you.

But let me say this. What I'm trying to say is this. You can't shield what is public record anyway. So whatever they're doing in their departments, that they can explain that. We can say, well, commissioners, we're going to cut. My recommendation would be to cut this position. I'm going to say, what were they doing? And then I can say, yeah, you know, that's a good idea. Maybe I don't think that's a good idea. Information is strategic. Because people want to know what their tax dollars are being used for. Like I said, when I called, when the lady kept calling upstairs last week, she couldn't g

Sir, I said I called upstairs. She doesn't have your number. The general public needs to be answered when they call. Okay, so that's what they need. If they have whatever, she was trying to get somebody, but whatever it is, we need to answer. Somebody answer the phone. Okay, but bottom line, back to what I said. Let the experts in the field that know what they're doing answer our questions. Let us go through them. Let us make some recommendations, and that way we'll know more about what we're doing. But there's no way that those other small counties came into the hotel and had their stuff read

I don't want an explanation. I don't. It's just too late.

I do, you know, I think tactically that this is probably not the best way that it should have went down to deal with the problem. One thing is it's easy to talk about who's getting cut. And you can be adversarial to it. And that's why I think that commissioners ought to be putting down what they think ought to be cut. And then that way you can make your own way about that. The directors, I tell you right now, one of the worst times I had for 20 years standing at that podium right there. Commissioner, it was like, I mean, it didn't matter what you said. It was a fight. And they were doing every

OK? They do. I thought you said that. And I don't know what list they're talking about, because I ain't seen one. Right. OK? But I can tell you right now that this is not going to be And we're talking about a million or two million or even up to three, depending on what we talk about with the constitutionals. Wait till we get six. Because they're talking about six is what it's going to be because we can't roll the businesses but 5%, right? And so when you're listening to what they're talking about, we're talking about $6 million next year.

Now, the thing I would say is, and this is where I realize that I might be the vote as the super majority. I ain't going with the record of what we were. But I did ask her because I keep wanting her to convince me. And there are other rates that would keep us at least where we were. Now, if we get to that evaluation and it doesn't get us there, I don't have a problem with that. But I don't want us to sit there and say we are going to raise taxes. People ain't digging it. I can tell you right now, I get more arguments over it. But I do. I think for me, my takeaway, and I'm done, I'd like to see

I was about to say, I'm still going to have the same questions about these items when I go down the list at the next meeting. So Mr. Administrator, if I get those explanations out there to the side, you can go write down each one of them. And it'll explain what those are. The other thing is that, as I said before, I'm willing to meet with them right here. And I could do my cut list tonight, too. No problem. But thank you.

Sure. I was just going to, when you mentioned all color, I went ahead and put it up as well. I went to staff and operation. And what it says that they did, they focused their shift towards internal department consolidation and reassignments rather than immediate layoffs. In other words, instead of firing people, they found something that they can do that would be more productive and beneficial to that county. Thank you.

I'll make it quick. Ms. Attorney, is there any state statute or ordinance or anything that says that we cannot request constitutional officers cut or to cut them?

What happens if we don't fund it? What if we fund it or do not fund it at what it was last year?

The reason I ask for the statute and all that, so one year we did not do raises on this side of the street. And across the street, they did raises. for those same positions and there was a big argument about that we cut back and um the others did not so that's what i'm saying it needs to be explained to them by the way some of the other counties um mr chairman you made that point of But they ran two budgets. That's what they did. But see, they did it early enough. And the commissioners had input. Now, what color county? We'll tell you that. They went in and they said, these are some things we

Mr. Chairman, what is the recommendation?

You know, we talk about these budgets, and then you never realize the impact. And so today I spent the morning with Senator Simon and Gallup Franklin, our representative. And part of the presentation from the school system was talking about those kids that we send for the summer work program and how it's helping jumpstart the technical. Wow. And for me, I sometimes get heartburn from your program. I mean, I don't want to lie to you, but then we don't really communicate well enough that when I heard them say that today, that GTI is growing. Because some youth employment. Because those kids are

You really make my day. But it's that thing, as we start talking about cuts, it's easy to say, hey, we're going to cut this. The other thing is, to the administrator, it's a tough job, and I appreciate you and the staff and all y'all working hard. and uh but i do i do immediately want every commissioner to sit down with y'all and have a voice never do i want to quiet anybody's voice up here and so as fast as you can make that happen guys

So we'll know what we're looking at, what's going on with those. And maybe Senator Simon and Senator will send more money. That way we can find some of you who they just send the money. They ain't doing nothing.