City Council - Regular Meeting

Okay, I call to order the agenda review meeting of September 15th, 2026. Clerk, please call the roll.

Thank you so much. All right, hey everyone. We will get started with item number one from the Department of Transportation.

Thank you. I can't talk enough about this. I've been talking about this for five years. And we've made, you, Simon, has made many applications to various funding streams with no luck. And we've knocked on many doors, whether it was FEMA, Army Corps, ODNR I'm sure, I mean you can give me the rundown of all of the different places and we were not successful. And so to be able to bring this federal money back to this area is quite an accomplishment. And as we transition from the Rust Belt to the Water Belt, we have to take care of our infrastructure and we're talking about the light poles, and th

You know, when people think these meetings can be boring, come on. Thank you, Officer Bilo. Councilman Driscoll, what's your recommendation?

I'll go SEP. I will say that when I got appointed to council and I had lunch with Councilman Morris for the first time, this and passenger rail were the two things he told me he wanted to get done. So I'm glad to see him making progress on this. One thing I'd say is when the design is done, it'd be nice to see what that'll look like because I think every time we get um an opportunity to work on our roadways to think a little bit about um alternate modes of transportation i think this gives us an opportunity to do that so i'm just you know interested to see what the pedestrian and cycling facil

Thank you for this. Thank you, Chair. I do have a couple questions. Why do you think our contamination rates are so high compared to other cities?

Thank you, and I'm glad that we have Sarah Stacey here because when I came home last night, everybody put out their recycling bins and their garbage, and I've noticed that there was some utility work in our neighborhood. There was a transformer that blew in the last storm, and so they were cutting down some of the trees, and they left the trees at the curb. And so the curb has had a number of brush, good piles of brush. I came home last night, where was the brush? In the recycling bin. So I don't know, do we have any kind of curbside pickup for brush? And honestly, if it's the utility company,

So in this situation, I'm going to guess that they don't know about the bundling. Is there any kind of educational materials that we have or Republic has, especially given with the new contract? Because even someone related to me said, I'll just call for a bulk pickup. And so I think that we have a lot more to communicate about this contract. And until we do that, I think unfortunately we're going to see people putting all kinds of things into the recycling, the blue recycling bins. So I don't know if maybe Joe from the administration.

And what I think that we really need to do is do that actual, like, and maybe they do that. Maybe they sticker things. I don't know. But in this situation, these individuals are probably not going to go to the website to be able to seek it out to get them the information. So when it's a noncompliant whatever it is, I'm hoping that someone is either tagging that or knocking on the door or having, I mean, I'm happy to help with that as a district person, but this just happened to be on my block. So, you know, I can't necessarily go on all the blocks. So I'm just trying to figure out how we as a

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, we have a marketing and communications department that we spend about a million dollars on each year. And there is no reason why MarCom cannot design something to put in the water bills regarding what you can do for recycling and what you cannot do. What is permissible, what is not permissible. So I call upon the MarCom department who is generously funded by this council to use that mechanism in the water bills because everybody looks at their water bill. If there's an insert in there, they'll see it, or if there's a paragraph about that. We just really need to

OK. So this company has done these audits before? They have done these audits before. So are we going to be doing this every year?

Well, let's see what the results are and then make a determination whether we need to do it every year or maybe every other year but we we've got to communicate better with the citizenry you know and we have we have new people that come into town we have people that forget what the regulations are we just need to really have it out there in print i agree with councilwoman morris they're not going to go to the website we need to make this consumer friendly easy for people to understand thank you mr chair

of course and before i go to council martinez i certainly agree with a great marketing communications department we also are asking them to do more and more and more in a modern world with the changing media landscape and so we have to be mindful of how many things we're messaging in one particular format or another that's the challenge i mean the truth is people want to know what's going to happen when their road is going to be redone and what impacts it's going to have and where they can turn left and where they can turn right And so we have a lot that we're trying to communicate to them and

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I thought most of my questions were answered until we kept talking about this. So a couple things, since Miss Stacy, you're here. I continue to have missed routes since we're talking about recycling and trash in District 2 around the Harvard River Road, Beverly area. For multiple weeks, the ink on the contract is not wet yet, or excuse me, dry yet, and we're still already having some of the same issues we had previously. So I just want to bring that to your attention. I did let Engage Toledo know. I even let the president of Teamsters know since he wanted to know. So I

Okay, so if you can, by way of referral, I'll put this in writing, just give us what the, I guess, recommendations were from last year, two years ago, however. And the reason I'm asking this is, while I think this is needed, $150,000 out of the general fund is a lot of money for an audit. And if we've already had them previously, we should have a pretty good idea what the issue is. And maybe we don't necessarily need a full audit, but maybe a modified audit and use some additional funding for marketing and education purposes. I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just asking, is this the highest and

I have one question too. Is there, when we do these types of audits, is there like a follow-up kind of best practice recommendations on some of these communication tactics that we can look at? I mean, I don't know that the firm to do the audit of breaking down what's in the bin is necessarily the right expert to help us with, you know, new maybe ideas in 2026 of how to communicate.

Thank you, Chair. One question. Is there somewhere maybe I'll do a referral. The do's and the don'ts. What is recyclable for the blue bin? What is not recyclable or what should not go in the blue bin? I'd just like to keep it simple so we could pass it out and give it to the kindergarteners and they would understand it. have to agree with other council members that everybody does not go on the website and to this day even when i recycle i have to think about what can this one do you have to wash this out what about the pizza box what those things and i think the educational piece And if we hav

We've got some good lights here. I want to make one quick comment, and maybe it would be an interesting conversation. And quickly, Councilwoman Pearson, does MarCom report up through your committee? Forgive me for not knowing that. Yes. Okay. I just wonder if it might be a good... not on the tactics and day-to-day activity of MarCom's, but the various channels we have and what those volumes are. Because the truth is, I would be curious, for instance, how many residents actually get a physical bill? How many have gone digital? What is then the relationship? Some of these communication streams,

We're going around the horn again. Councilman Sarantu.

Thank you. I also think those that do receive the actual DPU bill, if something could be printed at the bottom of the bill, again, that gets their attention. I know handouts mean that somebody's, they have to be inserted into the bill. I know that's going to take a little more time. But I would state for the record, according to our directory of city departments, there are listed seven people in marcoms. I know of at least five that are in there. So again, we've upped the staff, and again, I think that it is doable, that we just need to work together, your department with Maricoms, and get the

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm curious, and maybe it doesn't, but do you feel that this audit aligns with the Climate Action Plan, and which piece of the Climate Action Plan do you think it aligns with?

Okay, this is not a got you moment. I just pulled this up because I was curious if this is what you're referencing. Action 4.3, assess the Hoffman Road office recycling pilot. Is that what you're referring to? And use learnings to implement full recycling at all city facilities? Is that what you mean? Because this doesn't strike me as city facilities. This strikes me as.

So what part of the climate action plan?

Okay, I mean, I'll have to go through it, because I really don't, I mean, I appreciate, I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad idea, but to you, I think that, to me, the spirit of the 1% fund is specifically to address the climate action plan. So I'll submit a referral then for that. Thank you.

Thank you. Councilwoman Pearson. Yes. Joe, the piece that you're saying they're putting in the water bill, can we get copies of that? Because just like we're saying, they go in the water bill, some people have gone paperless, ditto. Anytime Marcom puts out something that goes to the community, it would be good for us to have it also so that we can pass it out at the meetings we attend. Because a lot of times with our neighborhood meetings, you know we have to make up stuff we shouldn't have to make up stuff and y'all making up stuff i mean come on let's not reinvent the wheel here sure so that

All right, I got a dark board up here. I think this is going to be, yeah, Councilman Driscoll, please, recommendation. So the Chair and Vice are out. You're up, buddy. The request was SEP?

I think it's number three. That sounds good. Number three.

Thank you for that. I do have one quick question. So, um, when this happens, I mean, everyone, everyone's experiencing this. I don't think anyone's shocked by this. Where does that come from? How do we, how do we cover that? I mean, you know, one point is at 1.4 that we weren't expecting to spend on fuel.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This might be a question for finance or for referral, but why is this not a budget adjustment?

I think Mr. Chair, that was along the same question I was going to ask, why wasn't it a budget adjustment? And actually, what other potential impacts are we going to have because of ongoing geopolitics that we haven't adjusted for already? I know we have the tariffs. I'm not sure what the impact has been in the finance. Maybe it's more of a finance question that the finance director can answer to make sure that we're adequately projecting the next six to eight months in our budget. So appreciate it. I don't have an issue supporting it. But I think the bigger question is financial impact to our

Thank you will go again to Councilman Driscoll.

I'm gonna go first reading on this. Thank you. Thank you.

We will have some questions. This appears to be super cool. I don't know if anyone else is ready to nerd out on this. A couple questions just from this little graph here. Does it measure easement, public-private property? Is that something we can kind of discern?

I think about the issues sometimes that we run into about like where is the tree if it needs to be, and if we could just have that in this database seemingly. That's super interesting. And then also from like a trimming standpoint, I think just might as well get it to you or Mackenzie Woodley Road is virtually Woodley to Central is virtually impossible to turn on now because the trees have grown over the side and people can walk under them which is nice you're under a little but you look left or right and it's tough stuff and I just wonder like is there any this seems I'm looking at it's like

I'm gonna have to have a nerd out session another time. This is really cool councilman Martinez Thank You mr.

Chair. Yeah, definitely cool Question though the is this a one-time 250,000 or is this kind of gets us to the dance and then there's an annual fee that we have to pay to maintain the system and update trainings and technology

Sure. So I guess my question is, so I get it, right? is there training involved is it an annual subscription are we buying to their ecosystem so to speak and is this a standard i guess i don't know enough about it that's why i'm asking these questions right so is it like i'm buying into the apple ecosystem so i have the apple computer now i have to get the all the apple software that is attached to it for additional fees

Gotcha. So it's all integrated and it gives us a very comprehensive database that looks super cool and easy to use. And, uh, constant melding can nerd out and, and have lots of fun talking with you guys about this. Awesome. Okay.

Yep, I'm going to not ask any other questions, I promise. Councilman Driscoll, you have your light on, and I'm going to go to you for recommendation.

Okay, I'm curious, were any of you present when, I guess, now Lake Erie West presented all their data? I think they said, they told me yesterday, Executive Director Spank told me that they presented it in front of the cabinet, so would that include any of you?

Okay, the only reason I ask is they presented on tree coverage as well, and we, in committee, we have our team of COG dues, and I don't want to double spend here, I guess, if another agency's already doing this, and so I want to understand better what it is that we're, what the difference is between what we're doing and what they're doing, because if they've already got that information, and if it is LIDAR, which obviously is better than somebody Individual and it can give you more information than somebody just going and telling you where a tree is So I'm not opposed to this, but I do think w

Before I go to Councilman Sorrento, Councilman Driscoll, would a clarification be helpful if we talked about what costly, outdated system this replaces?

I think so. If Lake Erie West is already using LIDAR and can tell us what our tree coverage is, I don't understand why we would do that as well. And their potential rollout of this is for everybody to have access to it, including council members and people in the district.

Your question makes me curious. What's the difference between maybe an aerial assessment of a canopy, You know, the difference in some of the hot spots, we've seen some of those heat maps versus kind of what this looks like, a ground level assessment of individual tree quality and inventory. Is that a helpful distinction?

Maybe just sending that out to council would be helpful.

No, I'm calling on you. I'm calling on you right now.

Yeah, I guess I would just want some clarification. If somebody from the administration can tell us by next Tuesday that what they're doing is not germane to this or vice versa, then we can certainly vote on it on Tuesday. I don't have any issue there. But if it's just because we didn't know what they were doing, I think we should probably go first reading and see if we can coordinate with them more on that.

So for clarity, should the recommendation be SEP and move it, or keep it first reading and vote on it next Tuesday?

Okay. We did a lot there councilman Sorrento Thank You mr.

Chair well tomorrow we do have that meeting with chairman Driscoll on Lake Erie West and we should ask that question and Find out so we we may have answers before the end of the week on that my my other question Perhaps you said this and I missed it. But have we ever done a survey of this type with the trees in the past and

Okay, because in the last two years, we embarked on a tree planting program throughout the city. So I'm just wondering if you have that data in terms of how many trees so far have been planted and the results.

Thank you. We have a recommendation. Before we move on, I have one more. Just a plea. Whatever the device is that is going to do this inventory, whatever it looks like, just put in a good word to whoever is doing this that we should dress it up like the Lorax. and just watch it happen just watch what happens in the world okay i love that recommendation thank you google the lorax if anyone's wondering what i'm talking about we'll go on um item number five i think you have five two right all right yes thank you um item number five this legislation is requesting to amend

Okay, we will go to Councilman McPherson. I just need to pause for just a second.

Yeah, because I just, the last part of that, I guess I want a clear understanding. If there's a resident that has a healthy tree in their yard and they want it removed, you're saying that they would have to pay to have that tree removed? Is that my understanding?

Quick clarification, where are you down by the way? Okay, no, it's okay, no? Quick clarification, on their property or public property? Like, I wanna remove a tree in my front yard on my private property.

That question gets filed under assume nothing. So thank you very much. Councilwoman Cramer.

Thank you, Chair. I'm going to just clarify Councilman McPherson's question. So the question was, if there's a healthy tree and it belongs in the city's area, we would charge the resident to cut that tree down if they wanted to and it was a healthy tree, is that correct?

Okay, got it. So that's kind of, maybe residents might be annoyed by the leaves or something like that. Okay, I got it. I appreciate that you guys are taking the time to look through the charter. I'm sure it's tedious But I also just want to thank you for thinking about pronouns I think we all need to think about pronouns and I appreciate that you mentioned that because it should not just be His yes, so thank you very much

agreed it's almost shocking when you run into those things out there but um yep good catch councilman srantu thank you mr chair so commissioner what percent of those that apply for a permit to cut down a tree on city property are approved i would i would say they're all approved but the percent of people applying to remove remove those and get a permit is very low it's not something you know

Trees in the public land. Okay, the tree lawn. What kind of a fee are you thinking of? Have you thought about a figure for the permit?

Right. Okay. And then one final situation I want to run by you. If you go down Lasky Road between Douglas and Secor, there is a medical office on the right-hand side if you're heading west on Lasky. They have a tree on their private property, but it's a huge limb hanging over Lasky Road. So I guess my question is, Do we have the ability to notify owners of private property where trees look very dangerous? We had that tragedy on Secor near Lasky Road. I don't know if that branch was actually hanging over Secor, but certainly somebody got killed and somebody got severely injured. So I just want

All right, thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Councilwoman Morris.

Just a real quick question. So there's a public tree in the right of way and maybe forestry doesn't think it should be removed. I do. I apply for the permit. Do I enlist a private company to remove it? Is it forestry that removes it? How does that work?

OK. I just wanted that clarification. I wasn't quite sure. Thank you.

Thank you. I was going to ask the question, but since you just kind of briefly touched on it. So if a healthy tree is damaging personal property, the department says, no, it's a healthy tree. We're going to charge you even though it's damaging my personal property. And so there's no recourse for the homeowner to recoup any cost to repair any said damages. But also now they have to pay an additional fee.

So if the tree has a limb that's on my house and the house gets struck by lightning as an act of God, it was a healthy tree. I had come to you prior and say, I have a concern. You say, okay, you can cut it down at your cost. I choose not to. Now it damages my house because that's what I was trying to prevent. Would the city be liable or would it still be me as a homeowner responsible for it? cannot answer i need more time to think about that question so i'll take it so i know it's a very specific question but but here's my concern right so if we put the onus on the homeowner to cut a tree that

Okay, so is there going to be some sort of guidance or informational? Because I'm guessing, it's just like when we changed the sign code, we had been operating for so long, for so, you know, a lot of people didn't know that they had pull permits, even though they should know, but didn't necessarily pull a permit. And then they said, oh no, it's the owner's responsibility, and then they get stop work orders. So I had that on, at a fairly, well-known grocery store in my district that it happened, right? So I'm trying to navigate this. I hear what you're saying, but I also want to be conscientiou

Can I ask a clarifying question? Sure. This is not bringing new permits into the code. This is just saying that there will be a fee associated with it?

Correct. So your hypothetical was true for the last maybe 100 years that you needed a permit to remove a healthy tree that had a limb hanging over your house. This is just introducing a fee with it. I just mean like I understand the hypothetical you're asking. I don't know that the fee necessarily changes the math.

Don't disagree, if I may respond. Don't disagree, I guess the big question is I didn't know there was a permit required. And I'm guessing most homeowners don't. I think you might be right. And then if we're going to do a fee, which is fine, whether it's $1, $1.50 or $1,000, I don't know if I'm comfortable adding a fee when we don't know what that fee is or if it's going to be based on a scale or something.

now you just raise another question right so now there was a permit that we didn't really advertise so no one really knows about but if it happens and you go through the process you can get a waiver or you can get for a fee you can get it removed right so that just raised a lot more questions about hidden permits what other permits are we not telling our residents about and then potentially Penalizing them if they don't have a permit that they didn't know that they were supposed to get so I think most people want to pull permits and do it the right thing and I get the whole right away and prot

I don't see any of the lights before we go to Councilman Driscoll. I mean, I just want to make a comment. It does strike me that this is what agenda review is. This is an agenda, and we are reviewing it. This does not strike me as urgent. I don't want to give Councilman Driscoll a recommendation, but it seems like the nice healthy process to get some of these answers and understanding would be first reading. It's up to you, sir.

I think we should go first reading. I think anytime we change the code, we should go first reading. So this will be first reading as well. Thank you.

Thank you. And thank you so much for bringing all this forward. Item numbers six through nine from the Department of Public Utilities.

Mr. Chair. So We're we're bids entertained and bids go out to

Okay. And how many responses did you get? Two? Okay. And are you at liberty to tell us who you're recommending?

Okay. Now, have they done this kind of work for us before? No.

Okay, and when does this go to the Board of Awards? This Friday?

Okay, all right. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Councilwoman Cramer.

So thank you. My question is, where will the spent line be taken for disposal? Is that going to be somewhere local?

Okay. So it will be used for fertilizer?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So obviously we've been following this in this committee for a while. So they were one of the three bidders that originally bid on this spent lime contract. Polcat was ultimately awarded, Rocky Ridge, and I think BCE also. I think they're based out of Northwood area, and they have a proven track record of responsible lime. uh... application so i have no concerns uh... with this potential contract uh... but i i'm going to ask you p on this thank you and seven

Just so I understand, so this is saying that they have inspected and they have found repairs that need to happen? Or is this proactively saying if we find that they need to repair, this is what we're planning on doing? Help me out.

All right. Just wanted clarification. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Councilman Martinez, what is your recommendation?

I got to tell you, every time permanganate pops on the agenda, I get all excited. That is one of the most elegant words we will review all year long. Just consider it for everyone listening. Councilman Martinez, don't rush it. What's your recommendation? SCP. Thank you.

Thank you. The other Teresa is not here today, and I am actually asking this on her behalf, and also perhaps Councilman Hobbs might weigh in. We have been notified that some of the hydrants have been put in the middle of a sidewalk, thus impeding accessibility for individuals, and so I don't know what street it was in Councilwoman Gaddis' district, but I know that Councilman Hobbs had one, I believe, in his district. And so I'm curious, what's going on with the hydrants?

Okay Do you and I don't know if you know this off the top of your head if not I will do a referral Do we know how many hydrants we have in the city?

And how many will we, we're doing 70 with this? Okay. And how do we decide what needs to be replaced?

And what is the average shelf life of hydrant?

You know? Yeah. They're important. It's 50 years. Oh, 50? 50 years. Okay. All right. You know, I talk about this a lot, but, you know, having had a house across the street from me that caught on fire, you know, having accessibility to water is a big issue, obviously. But even we're going to be having a meeting about some of the industrial accessibility to hydrants. Specifically, I'm concerned about OmniSource. and being able to get back into some of the private property. So, you know, I can't understate or overstate, I should say, the importance of hydrants. I mean, they're just, they're so important. So thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Councilman Sorrento. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I brought this up over the last few years, but we have a lot of hydrants in town that really need painting. They are ugly, and people take care of their properties, then you drive by and you see a hydrant that really needs painting. How often are we inspecting hydrants and how often are we painting hydrants?

Does one person go to the hydrant to pain or a couple?

Okay, I'll just bring it up because again, I get comments from residents and I know we only have so many people, we have so many dollars to work with, so I appreciate it. Thank you, thank you Mr. Chair. Thank you, Councilwoman McPherson.

um two questions you said you took care of the taking care of the fire hydrant that was on the east side the one in i'm going to say in councilman hobbs district are we working on that one too i would need that address i i don't remember that one off the top of my head if that was a new installation or if that was existing but i would need i would need to okay we'll make sure you get that in that that address Also, they're with curb stops and leaks. And we've had this one, the one over on, I do believe it's Giant Street. How do we, I know you determined that if it's on their side or the reside

okay that address that's a a senior a handicap you saw the lift wheelchair and financially they got the thing and sometimes i just think we just got to be good about helping our residents sometimes when you guys go out there and see some of those things i it's hard it is hard and we are

Because that's an $1,800 to $3,000 bill for some residents that's barely making it. And if we're out there, I know, I'm sympathetic for my constituents. If we're out there and if we can,

OK, so you won't go back out there and look at that one. Thank you. I appreciate you. I'm saying this because right now with water bills and everything that everybody is dealing with and then you get a curb leak and you call it and you got this. And then you think, hey, it's an easy fix. And then next time they come back and they tell you, no, you got you got the note on the door that says You got to call a plumber and that's a 1,800 to $3,000 bill. Here we are trying to pay our water bill, trying to stay current. I just think that I know we are having some financial issues too, but I just bel

Thank you. Before I go to Councilman Martinez, I just want to make a quick observation that the photo that I saw of the hydrant that grew up in the middle of the sidewalk, which looked like a bit of a miracle, it's the picture of the difference between technical accessibility and disability friendly. because in the several weeks and months after a sidewalk is placed in that photo it was true and in most sidewalks i've seen you have to kind of dig out further than the sidewalk which means you pour it and then you remove the little wood pieces and so there's a gap so now you have a tiny technica

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So this was a collaborative effort with my colleagues to address some nuisance hotel operators in our districts. This would roughly impact about 30 hotel motels that according to the auditor are in operation. And this basically would allow local control over a lot of the nuisance issues that we don't really have control over. As of right now, the state of Ohio is the one that issues licensing for the hotels and motels. We tried to work with the state to get some of our problematic hotels and motels with anyone who would be willing to work with us. So whether it was the po

Thank you. Just a quick question. Do we know of other cities that have done this and what the results have been?

Yeah, so in the memo that was sent to everyone last Friday, Maumee has something similar. A lot of the surrounding municipalities have it. We're probably the only large municipality that doesn't have anything like this in the state of Ohio. So it's not unheard of. We're not trying to over-regulate, but the reality is the state won't do anything, and it's best at local level to help make sure that we're enforcing our local regulations. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Councilman Hobbs. Thank you, Chair Melvin. So we just wanted to, I know that you all have seen and gone over the resolution and just is looking at, because there have been questions concerning the city's use and oversight of the flock system. And so this is, you know, residents have expressed concerns regarding the use, access, and sharing of information through the flock system under the control or supervision of the city of Toledo. And so this audit, we are hoping to have, as you all have seen from the packet, all of these things addressed and to be evaluated, audited. And if there's anythin

Thank you. Councilman Driscoll. Thank you, Chair. I want to thank President Williams and Councilman Hobbs, the Public Safety Chair, for taking this on. Edit, I guess I would have is I think a lot of people have some serious questions about this out in the community and I think it would be valuable. Most of our city in our city auditor works really hard, but most of our city audits take more than a few months and I think like an early check in maybe a month or two into this process. I think from the city auditor, depending on what the findings are, would be helpful from a transparency standpoin

Thank you, Councilman Hobbs. Sorry again, Chair, and I wanted to say SCP. Sorry.

Yeah, the co-sponsors are not here, but we have a packet from the Fair Housing Center and very patient members of this important organization. Thanks for listening to all of our talk of potassium permanganate.

I'm sorry. To get started, what is your position on potassium permanganate?

Pro, pro, I hear it. Referral. You've been so patient with us and we look forward to hearing what you have to say. We do have a four o'clock hearing right after this. Okay. I have a hunch that won't be an issue. I just want to let you know.

Thank you very much. Councilman Sorrento.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for being here today, Mr. Thomas. So my question is, is there not a state law that talks about retaliation? And how would this proposed legislation differ from the state law?

I'd be interested in getting that packet. Oh, sure. You know, it's... frankly it's disgusting what's happened for example executive towers yeah uh you know and i mean we really we really need to curtail this type of uh environment for people to live in where pretty much it's just a non-response to the best of my knowledge as one example right the landlord is not cleaning up the matter so um

And you know what's funny is those two buildings were tremendous facilities at one time. They just were unbelievably luxurious and people really took a lot of pride in living there.

Okay, well, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Councilman Martinez.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Actually, my question is more about the data, more so than anything else, and I don't want to bore this council, so I'll just have an offline conversation.

The question was more about the what? The question was more about what?

The data. the data because I'm curious about the LLCs because versus the S Corp, C Corp, you know, major corporations versus an individual mom and pop shop putting their building into an LLC to protect themselves from other liabilities into the grittiness of that stuff. That was kind of some of my questions.

Oh, okay, the first reading is what we're going to go with on this. That's what they asked for. Does that make sense to you?

You had an inquisitive reaction to me. Thank you for being here. I also would love to chat sometime, but the whole investor out-of-town situation is... It's such an important issue. Thank you for that, yeah. threading the needle of being business-friendly, investment-friendly, but with some values and caring about people.

Totally understand. And we have a light. If I talk long enough, Councilman McPherson.

know a slow thinker um and you just said that so is there a way that we can regulate or even look at that bad investors bad persons that purchase and don't do right by our citizens have are there

Yeah, because in some of the apartment complexes, the tenants were leery of putting their rent in escrow and doing it collectively. And I thought, oh, yeah, if you do it collectively and everybody's in on it, now you've got support. But a lot of them still did not want to participate in that. And they would rather pay their rent and live in disarray, for lack of a better word, but it's like, at least I have a roof over my head. If I fight or if I do something else, I may be out on the street. It's still not good, but I think in listening to a lot of the residents, that's kind of like where the

Exactly, exactly. So thank you, and yes, we need to, because we have, everybody deserves a clean place to live. They don't have to worry about mold and animals and those type of things and hot water. you know, are not afraid to use their restroom because of things backing up in it. And it was very disheartening to go in some of the complexes and see what people were really actually dealing with and still paying their rent.

Yeah, yeah, it is disheartening. And we're dealing with it more now because there's not a lot of places that they can move to. exactly and if you're on section eight you're limited to where and now the list is so long and so yes it is and that's why we're dealing with so many seniors right now on the streets yeah it does ultimately um lead to homelessness too to your point yeah i was astounded yesterday to hear that uh dr durant said that toledo public schools has over 2 000 2,000 young people, students that are homeless. It's shocking.

But thank you for your work. I'm done, Councilman Sam.

Well, thank you. As the screen says, thank you. And seeing nothing further, this meeting is adjourned.