City Council - Regular Meeting

We'll go ahead and call this meeting to order. This is City of St. Cloud Council meeting, Thursday, September 10th, 2026. And welcome to our council meeting. In the interest of time efficiency and ensuring that everyone who wishes to address the council is given the opportunity to do so, the following will apply to all comments made by the public. If you desire to be recognized by the chair, please fill out a request form and present it to the city clerk present in the council chambers. Each speaker shall be allotted three minutes to address the council unless such time is extended by the mayo

Thank you, Pastor McKay. All right, and will the clerk please call the roll?

Here. All right, thank you. Also, let's take a moment to remember those lives lost 25 years ago, September 11, 2001. Obviously, those were families. Those were men, women, fathers. I mean, those were Americans that lives were lost, firefighters, police, horrific, horrific day. And it taught us so much as a country on how to unite and come back together. And I think those are lessons that we should always continue to go back and learn from and how we can always be one and find ways to find peace and get along and find unity. So I did want to go ahead and recognize that. Agenda update, city mana

OK, which is the first one? That one. Which resolution number? Public hearing three, ordinance 23. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yes, will the clerk please read resolution number three?

All right, and you can read them both in the record. We can do one at a time. And can I get a motion on that?

Mayor may have a motion for Ordinance 2633 to continue, please. Second.

We have a motion from the Deputy Mayor, second from Council Member Urban. Until October 8th. Thank you. All right, yep, as stated, and second from Council Member Urban. Will the clerk please call the roll?

And can I get a motion? Motion to approve. Motion approved. Council Member Paul. Second. Second. Council Member Fletcher. So that's a motion to continue to October 8th? Yes. Motion to continue. Will the clerk please call the roll?

All right. Moving on to, did you want to bring up the cloud carriers at the end?

All right, so you're good on that. Back to my turn. All right, we have presentations here. We have a proclamation recognition of Constitution Week. I'm a little sweaty on the way out here. I dropped my whole cup of coffee trying to grab on my laptop and also was a little frantic getting out here. So that's why I was a few minutes late. So here we have a proclamation. Whereas September 17th, 2026 marks the 230. We have somebody from the Daughters of the American Revolution. Come on up here. This is Liz Daly from the DAR. Thanks for joining us. So whereas September 17, 2026 marks the 239th anniv

And I'll tell you something else. The Daughters of the American Revolution, if y'all were here, I believe it was the last council meeting, and through the St. Cloud Veterans Council and this city council, we've authorized the Daughters of the American Revolution. They voluntarily purchased a plaque to be placed, and they're building a monument out there at Veterans Park here. And if y'all have noticed, we brought that park back to life over the past year with honoring our veterans and having those soldier city markets out there. If you've seen the new paint job out there, it's looking great an

And we had a presentation for Employee of the Month, but we have rescheduled that to a later date. All right, next up is the consent agenda. Next portion of tonight's meeting is the consent agenda, which contains items that have been determined to be routine and non-controversial. If anyone in the audience wishes to address a particular item on the consent agenda, now is the opportunity for you to do so. Additionally, if staff or members of the city council wish to speak on a consent item, they have the same opportunity.

All right, anyone in the audience like to speak on the consent agenda?

Okay. Yes, ma'am. Thank you very much. Yeah, and that was the question. We talked about this probably today. I spoke with staff, and I guess this kind of came up after this was advertised and you guys have already sat down with staff. Yes, sir. Thank you for clarifying where the money goes towards. So it's towards referees.

And I played at the little league fields. My dad was a football coach there. My little brother played, so I totally understand. And Council Member, sorry, Deputy Mayor Gilbert.

Thank you for all you do, firstly. I had the opportunity to coach for 26 years in both varsity football and Pop Warner football with Kissimmee and the St. Cloud Bulldogs. Two questions I have, and I don't know what the legal portion is, but you traveled eight games, four games are traveled. The other four places you go, is there a gate fee for those? And what is that average gate fee for? Because it might be Ocoee. I don't know exactly what your schedule looks like, but I know. You do travel to different cities?

I get that because I did it for quite some time with that because we had Mighty Mites, Junior Pee Wees, Pee Wees, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I think it was five different programs through the weekend and I apologize, I didn't pay, but I always coach, so I didn't know how the gate fees worked. But is there an opportunity, and again, I don't know, for a season pass for these families to help support it? We've done that in other venues where you can buy the full four games as a volunteer or as a sponsorship to go in and you just show that pass, and that would use that same money for those g

Council Member Irvin. So is the, I was just thinking about, because I grew up out there, played football out there as well, is the gate fee just to get into the football game? Can other, my concern is just somebody from the general public wants to go

harmony is a harmony trigger what do you charge the harmony kids uh ten dollars sir we actually just played harmony it was very it was very peaceful it was fun the one thing that came to mind when deputy mayor brought that idea up was A pass, these are the guests. The guests only. So to do a pass, that would have to be a league-wide pass.

You might have one to cover the four home games at. Again, I'm out of turn, and I apologize for interrupting, but we used to do, when I was coaching at high school football, we would have passes through the boosters club that would, you know, a certain amount would give you four passes, a certain amount would give you three. I'm just trying to look for alternatives to make it work for everybody, and I don't have the answer.

Well, what she's saying is these are different people each Saturday. Yeah.

We don't charge our own. They're not charging us.

You're like, if I go to France, I have to pay to go to the bathroom. Exactly, but here you're good. Okay, now I get it.

Yeah, that's why I was like, well, they only go once.

Well, I thought it was for all attendees. Because high school football is for all attendees. Yeah, that's true.

We all got to pay for high school. Even Harmony.

The other locations that you guys play at, are they also on city property or at schools?

Council Member Fletcher. I did not play out there, but I can make noise with the saxophone. There you go. Come on out. We have a home game. We'll take it. Council Member Paul asked my question, so thank you.

So you say, and even those fees don't cover the cost of the refs. Like you, you have to pay generate other revenue to, to cover those.

Okay. All right. I mean, I'm okay with allowing that to continue if it covers. It's not going into anybody's pocket, obviously. This is not. This isn't a money-making program. Zero. Dan, we spoke about this. So when the city took the park over. Mm-hmm. You all still have the concession stand. You have the equipment. You've got the means to still have this Saturday. Yes, sir.

And I trust you're not going to hit these folks up with too much of an entry fee to see their kids play? No, sir.

I'm okay with that, guys. What do you all think? I mean, we're not. They're already covering some costs that you weren't before, right? Yes, sir. Deputy Mayor.

May I ask the attorney legally what is our- You have a-

They've got to go in and go around the whole backside, right? That playground's still in the same spot.

Oh, that's right. We're going to get a new playground. I haven't been out there since.

We used to call them talk-a-toys and army men. That's what we played for before the internet. We actually played with those kind of toys.

Exactly. So how many home games? Eight days?

So we're talking about seven, eight Saturdays throughout the year? In the fall only. In the fall only. Yep. There's another league?

I mean, Dan, if we're allowed to do that just for those days.

So we'd have to... You just adopt it with that change.

Okay. Council Member Urban. I motion to approve item number two with that amendment added, however the wording needs to be.

Dan, we have to read that into the record first, right? Since we're pulling that for a separate vote.

We have a motion from Council Member Urban. Second. Second from Council Member Fletcher. Will the clerk please call the roll?

If you went to St. Cloud High School, you can get in for free.

We won't hold that against them. Yeah, we have another high school in our city now. Which I went out there for lunch a couple days ago. Beautiful facility. Beautiful, yes. All right, so that was just number... That was item number two on the consent agenda. That was item number two, so we've already done that one, so... All right, council. We're going to get a motion on the consent agenda. Or any discussion?

All right, council. Motion to approve the consent agenda. Motion approved. Council Member Urban. Second. Second. Council Member Paul. Will the clerk please call the roll?

All right, next up, we have a citizen's forum. Any person who desires to comment on any item not on this agenda is provided this opportunity to address the city council. Each person is requested to complete a sign-in form to be provided to the presiding officer prior to or as soon as practical thereafter the person addresses the council. And first up on the consent agenda, I'm sorry, that's the consent agenda, on the citizen's forum, we have Teresa Mailhot. You're first up. You don't want to be first? It really doesn't matter. Okay. Okay.

I've known you for many years. I've never heard about this.

Who doesn't like plants? You know, that's... You could use some plants to decorate your...

Well, you know, is this a Saturday or Sunday? Saturday. All right. Cause the 11th is a Sunday, right?

It is. Yeah. I was just looking at the calendar.

Please share the video on social media. Obviously, we've got a lot of stuff here tonight, but I'd love to see the video. Oh, okay.

So everybody brings different plants, and then they say, hey, I want one of these.

It sounds like a great community event. Deputy Mayor Gilbert.

I don't have a green thumb. If I try something, it's just I have to hire somebody because it just doesn't work. But this is not a for-revenue venue, I believe. And the first certificate I gave out when I became a councilperson almost four years ago was for our tree planting folks. We planted... Tree Advisory Committee. Tree Advisory Committee. And we plant trees all the time. And you don't know... what you know until you find out. And that was such a great advisory, planting 50,000 trees. And these were, again, volunteers, and we gave certificates out from the city. That was the first thing I

Yes. But I do think this council is something that we give back to the community, not only to the environment, also in planting. There's not many people that do that. So I'm going to yield back to you, Councilman Mayer. But this is the first I heard it, and this is really, really a great thing and I don't know how we can get it to become larger as we grow, but I'll leave that up to you, Teresa, because I know you do a lot for the community. So thank you for all you do. Mayor, I yield back at this time.

Yes. Councilmember, sorry, city clerk, who is that one? City clerk. Oh, Scott, what are you doing up here? Because I was like, Jeff Perry's not here.

You know, if it's not available, you could come out and join the veterans, the Soldier City. market out there and do it. But I know you need a pavilion.

Well, like I said, if it's not available, we'll be out there at Soldier City Market, and we do have a bunch of tables and chairs. Okay. A whole trailer full of them.

Well, I saw you made a post on social media. I'm like, okay, what is this, dirty what? Fingernail club. Teresa, what are you bringing to us?

I support that. Folks, do we need a motion on that? Consensus. They can work with city manager on the time and everything.

That's an amazing community event. What were you going to press it again? No, no, you're good. I don't have that. I have no control over that. Yes, you're good. Thank you. Thank you. So thank you, Teresa.

Yes, thank you very much, ma'am. Deputy Mayor Gilbert just passed out some information for us, so we appreciate you. If he can just stay right there, we're going to read through this real quick. And I think Deputy Mayor, well, first, Council Member Fletcher has something to say on this.

Thank you for your speech and thank you, Mayor. Partially what had happened was I had a conversation with the organization regarding the number of wreaths after attending the event last year. And I think some of us were actually out there. At the end of the event, you notice that there wasn't enough wreaths. So my thought was, let's let me allocate some funds to be able to make up that difference. Well, what had happened was, is that has to go off to purchase the wreaths, and then the wreaths then come down, and then they're placed by volunteers at this event. Right after that, there basically

Did this come from you? I'm sorry. Or did it come from you?

Well, we all are allotted, as council, a certain amount of dollars for special functions to go. And I have not allocated any of the dollars that I have. I have gone to the event. I think all of us were out there, or at least I've asked. And it's amazing. I mean, it's heartwarming. It's cool. And we're Soldier City. These are things that should be in our bodies and our souls as veterans that serve our country. So I don't know if I can donate part of my thing, because I don't know if two council people can... Before you do that, let's... Okay. But it's quite an event. So I'll yield back, but I d

Yeah, and I think that, first of all, thank you all for what you do with that. Thank you. And everything at the VFW as well. And I know Councilmember Fletcher, at the VFW, you spend a lot of time with those folks. And, of course, you know I'm with the Museum of Military History. I'm with the veterans all the time as well. And we've got the great Soldier City. We've got the Veterans Council. We've got, you know, everything we've been doing. And I think that was an amazing experience. Choice to for a council member Fletcher to allocate that $1,500 towards an amazing event The other fees though,

And I see full day of AV, so is that Jay? Yes, sir.

All right. I'm fine. On my side, just waiving those, the $1,070 for this event. I think it's... You know, they're not out there throwing a big party or they're not doing, there's no money exchanging hands. They're going in and honoring these veterans and that's what we're all about here in our community, so.

So you haven't had the DRC meeting yet? Correct.

Anything up to $1,500 of our permit fees, event fees.

One of the things I did speak to Chaski about and the organization is obviously we've been going through these different fees. And that's really going to change here, you know, with next year's budget. So, you know, I don't want to get in the situation where we're like keep waiving fees, waiving fees, right? So they're going to make adjustments to their stuff so that they have the fundraising efforts. And then I also mentioned to her to work with the St. Cloud Veterans Council to push, you know, the event for next year. And then they'll have the resources of everybody coming together so that i

um next year for them because it is a lot of work for chastity we have a meeting one o'clock tomorrow if you'd like to come and talk about priests across america i think i could make it i'll take my lunch break i work remotely awesome thank you yeah we have it actually it's once a month and it's the day after council meeting we have is it here second floor building department conference room okay one o'clock They would all love to hear about it. And you've got the president of the hospital, Brian Wetzel, is on that. We've got someone from Representative Stark's office, Senator Arrington's office. So it's a great group of folks in that room.

Yeah. Last year we've, we had it on our calendar of the year before we didn't even know. And that's where, and that's my fault. And we saw it, we got, you know, of course, you know, people said things, I'm like, well, I didn't even know what was happening.

Yeah, and I know Daryl and Charlotte Bass, they're involved in that as well with the American Legion. Yeah, not as much anymore. Oh, really? They're not? Okay. I saw them the other day at lunch over at the Legion. Council Member Paul.

I just asked if we can have Council Member Fletcher fill out the form like we did with the other ones just so it's documented. Thank you.

Oh, even for the waiver of the fee? I think city manager can... Is this not coming out of ours? It's a council collective thing. Okay. Right? Is that... There's not another form that...

That's the max, but that puts it. Okay, thank you. I got consensus on that. There's plenty of breathing room there to make the event happen. Thank you very much. Absolutely, yeah. Anything we can do, obviously, we'd love to see you tomorrow with the Veterans Council.

In everything you've been seeing in Veterans Park, Obviously, the city, they put up the money. They just painted the band shell, if y'all saw that. There was an Eagle Scout that came out and refurbished the cannons. Needs new tires still. We're out there every other week. If the VFW would love to set up out there, we'd love to have y'all.

Absolutely, yeah. Okay. It's free for veteran organizations. Okay. That's the whole idea is to get veteran resources out there and have a community day. Okay. I had no idea. Thank you. Food items. Council Member Urban.

One of the things just that the tent set up kind of reminded me is, you know, we have this is an amazing event. And we also have, I think, one of the best Memorial Day events in the entire state of Florida. Every year they got to set up that tent and everything. One thing I think this council should consider in the future, and I know with legislation coming up, we might not have the financial ability to do this, but to do a permanent shade structure there at the cemetery. for these amazing events I think would be helpful and would help encourage more people to come to these events and have sha

I agree. The tent out there sometimes is too short or too small for everybody to gather under during Memorial Day. It's a hot day, Memorial Day. Thank you all very much for bringing this forward. Thank you. I appreciate it. What is the date of Wreaths Across America? December 19th, Saturday. Thank you very much.

Absolutely. Yep. And please ask for volunteers tomorrow from the Veterans Council. Awesome. Thank you. All right. Anyone else in the audience like to address the council during Citizens Forum? Okay. We are moving on to public hearings. Will the clerk please read public hearing number one?

All right. Thank you, Coop. Anyone in the audience like to speak on this item? And City Council? Motion to approve. Motion to approve. Council Member Urban? Second. Second. Council Member Fletcher? Will the clerk please call the roll?

Let me have Ivy read this into the record for discussion. That's all right. I'm on a roll. Sorry. You're already going to number two. Please read out number two.

So what you're saying, Coop, is for the first time in 31 years, we're operating within our means.

Coop, I have a question. So with police and fire, you said it's 54 million? And what do we generate in ad valorem tax now?

And obviously, I've known those numbers. But I think it's important for you to say that out loud. I think everybody needs to know that.

And I believe in this budget we're already trimming down five new police officers that we were wanting to hire. So we're already kind of behind where we want to be without Amendment 3.

And Coop, can I pause you for a second? We have Council Member Fletcher and Deputy Mayor Gilbert that have some words here.

I just wanted to say, Coop, thank you, and thank you to every department director, the leadership of the city manager, and the the council's direction to basically put forward um the leanest budget i think that the at least since my time on council forward possible you know not using the prior year fund balance is an extreme effort i think it will affect every single employee in the organization every single department will be doing their part to save the taxpayers' and citizens' money. And I think everybody in the community, in the city, this council, directors, staff, should be proud of the

Just a few questions. Self-insured, when you talk about workman's comp, is there a cap on that, or is that because I don't want to go into it, but we're self-insured at one of my companies, but it's up to a certain cap, and then insurance companies take over after that. Is that where we're at, or are we 100% fully self-insured?

Usually there's a cap on those kind of insurance policies, self-insured until X, Y, Z, for hazards and emergencies and things such as that. So I just want to be clear. We still do have to pay insurance, but it's such a lower event because it's kind of like a deductible, you know, a million or $2 million deductible before we go into that insurance policy, which lowers that insurance policy by quite some bit. I just want any clarification on that, if I will. And thank you very much. What percentage of prior fund balance do we need to keep versus the Florida law? I know there's a law we have to h

Yeah, you still have to run a city through catastrophes or things like that. the folks here have been through that. You talked about 9-11. There's some folks that weren't even born 25 years ago, but this is something that we all know through COVID and things like that, that we have to keep a balance to keep the city operating for that. So thank you for those clarifications. I understand the police and fire are 53 to 50. I don't know how many times I tell everybody, you know, for our population, we're the safest city in the state of Florida. And for me, that's a great place to live. If you feel

I'm gonna yield back to you mayor. Those are just questions you have Running a city that those are things we need to know what costs are and how much it cost to run a city So, thank you very much Cooper. I'm gonna yield back to you mayor. Thank you.

All right. Coop, you can continue. I'm sure we'll have more questions and comments.

Yeah, Coop said he enjoys this stuff. When I'm having trouble sleeping at night, I'll just turn on our budget hearings and replay them on YouTube just to fall asleep.

Well, I just, I truly wanted to say I really appreciate what our city manager, finance director, and every single department has done to make this. This is my fifth time going through this budget process, and what the general public doesn't understand is all of the work that goes into every single department and every staff member at this city to put this together, and this has definitely been the most challenging budget year that I have had to deal with, and I'm sure there's a lot of challenges ahead, but I encourage all the residents to go through our budget, look at this QR code, take a loo

Thank you, Councilman Urban. Going through budgets is my life, and it's not pretty, it's not fun, it's difficult. I don't want to be lying to this, but I do know that there are services that we will not be able to provide after November 3rd if this amendment goes through. I don't want to press the panic button. I don't want to do that. But we have to realize as human beings that some of the services we have provided is because we've been able to provide them. And cuts are just that. And we were just talking about the police budget and cutting those officers, well, that's real stuff. And fire,

Yes, sir. Scott. Thank you, Mayor. Sorry, Deputy City Manager. Thank you.

No, you all hit the nail on the head. It's the staff that deserves all the credit, city manager, department heads, even Doug, the police chief. He stands through every one of our meetings and puts up with us over here. It's strange to say, but we've got the easiest job in the building. I mean, we get called all the names in the book on social media, but it's the staff that does all the work. And they're the ones that are going to have to work twice as hard this year because we've made those steep cuts. And the city manager is going to ensure that we can still get through this next year, regard

And I was here when the CFO came to town, and he did say our cities are not a problem. We are actually doing a better job than others.

All right. Do we have to vote on this? I think we do. Anyone from the audience like to comment on everything that Coop had to say? Or on this agenda item number two? Motion to approve. We have a motion to approve. Council Member Fletcher. Second. Second. Deputy Mayor Gilbert. Will the clerk please call the roll?

We're going to take a five-minute break.

Being back to order. All right, now, and will the clerk please read item number four, public hearing.

Anyone in the audience like to speak on this side? Okay, Council Member Fletcher.

The only thing that I wanted to say is, well, one, I appreciate staff working with the business owners. I know that we've spent a lot of time talking about this. I see folks here in the audience, well, at least one of them from our downtown establishments. At the last meeting, I was like, oh, man, we're continuing this again. I'm like, oh, my gosh, can we just, you know, get this across the finish line? But obviously the extension one more time did generate a bunch of discussion that I think has, we finally got it. I think we finally got it there. Unless anybody in the audience or council memb

Thank you, Mayor. I was at lunch the other day, and there was prominent business owners gathering together and talking about these ordinances that actually met. And to me, that's great, because these are our citizens, these are our business owners, these are our business operators that actually were meeting on this specific ordinance. I think some of the stuff was antiquated that was in here before, and I think we cleaned it up well. I just, it's so good when you see a community come together of business owners that have the same interest in working together for the best for the community. So

Yeah, I've seen him. It's a really good place to go.

City Manager of Kissimmee. Kissimmee's there.

He comes there, and Brian from Orlando Health St. Cloud. But it's not just for adults. It's a whole establishment. I bring my grandchildren and children. It's a great environment to be in. But it really comes from the business owners and the citizens. So I just have to thank them again for getting together, helping us figure it out, and make St. Cloud you know, the best place to be, which I truly believe it is. I'm biased because I'm a citizen, but we're down in St. Cloud at least three out of four weeks, weekends, enjoying dinner with my grandchildren at average age from 3 to 16. So it's a gr

Yeah, I'll say exactly what the Deputy Mayor and Council Member Fletcher said. I'm glad that everybody worked together to make this happen. I look at government as our role as getting out of the way so businesses can succeed, and I think this helps do that. I just wanted to say that I would be in favor of those food truck provisions, but it's my understanding we got to bring that back at another meeting. But I would be in favor in looking at that, and I know that the downtown businesses are in favor of that as well.

Yeah, I think that's a bigger topic, obviously, for food trucks around our entire city as well. I just want to point out, I think this accomplishes everything that, that needs to be done to differentiate between a liquor license and a 51%, you know, the five, what is that?

Um, cause that's what the intent when a business owner comes to us and that's where sometimes we get put in the middle of a fight and we're the bad guy because we're trying to fix a problem that comes to us that, that has not been resolved for a number of years. And I'll, I'll be honest with you. It came right to me and I'm sure it went to others and And I stood up for somebody, and then they backed away. And then, you know, all of a sudden it's a fight, and everybody's pointing the fingers at us, and we're just here trying to fix a problem and make it fair for everybody. So I do want to thank

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. We can go ahead and throw that in. That's just a temporary, if somebody's under construction.

Because that's an existing restaurant. They're just saying, is that something that's come up before where restaurants want to do...

Yeah. And that's why I just want to bring that up because that's not a permanent thing.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, we include that in this code or how do we do this?

Okay. Well, that way, if we don't have everything else worked out with the food truck stuff, then this is already scored away for a temporary. Yeah, then we can get an exception. Okay.

Ken wants to still eat there at fire within those three months. So, you know, if I do too.

Love it. Thank you, Jim. That's awesome, man. Congratulations to everybody working together.

And something I didn't know, actually, that restaurant that they stay open sometimes past 1 o'clock, the Crust and Crumb over there. Yes. That's an amazing pizza place. Yeah, they got good pizza. And a new pizza place too. Good pizza, good people. Great restaurants downtown. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Attorney, I'm not. That's a joke. All right. Any other comments on this item? All right. Council? Motion to approve. Second. Motion approved. Council Member Fletcher. Second. Council Member Urban. Will the clerk please call the roll?

I would like to talk to businesses around the restaurants and get a better understanding. So, yeah, maybe give some time to... I don't want to just do piecemeal things, maybe make it part of a bigger... Because we may want to say there's... Write it in that code for special events with food trucks.

Well, we don't know what it looks like yet. I mean, I can't give you input on that yet. I think we need to talk to the citizens or the business owners, the restaurants, and find that out. I mean, I don't think that's a major thing right now, is it?

Is it just for one person? Is that where it's coming from?

Um, does that include, so any alleyway, What is enclosed? I mean, we're going to find a lot of the trucks backed into these. I mean, there's going to be a bunch of them, I think.

Yeah, I, uh, thank you mayor. Uh, and thank you, uh, city manager. hard to describe this, but I've been to areas that food trucks have taken over and a hurt brick and mortar and just threw out picnic tables and games on and parties on and people would bring in alcohol by themselves and things like that. So I think this really needs a better look at it. An enclosed area, we mentioned the garage part, that makes sense. It's a walled-in cemented area. It's part of their infrastructure that they can do. It's not advertised outside that. I want to protect their brick and mortar. so they're not sett

CHAIRMAN BRYANT L. Okay. And I just wanted to put that on record, sir, and I don't know, but I just wanted to put that on record. A lot of things we have to put on record, so as we move forward, but I'd like to do this under a separate record. umbrella, if we could, city manager and attorney. So we have specific requirements for food trucks in the city of St. Cloud. I yield back to you, but those are things I've seen from the outside looking in at different establishments. Thank you, Mayor.

And that was my concern, and it's not that I'm opposed to that one particular one. Obviously, it's fully enclosed. It's been there before. I've eaten at that food truck when you had it there. It's not that I'm opposed to that. It's when we're talking about putting it into the code and leaving it so loose that we just need to look at it. Cause I can see with these alleys, let's just say somebody owns a whole block. You can stack about 12 of them in there and just, all you gotta do is shield the sides. And all of a sudden you got a whole row of them city manager.

If there's a business in there, then they can do it. I mean, what does that mean?

How do you say one business can do it and one can't?

Well, no, that's where we're talking out loud. That's where we're talking out loud.

Let us keep talking about this, and we'll give you direction one way or the other. Council Member Fletcher, we still have lights lit on here.

Thank you, Mayor. I think we actually might be headed in a good direction with this based on the conversations that you guys had. I wasn't there. You know, I've heard some things and whatnot. So the CRA, I mean, this is obviously we can't talk about, I mean, the purview. This isn't under the purview of the CRA, but the alleyway improvement project that we put on hold through the CRA program because we basically funded the parking garage and whatnot. I would recommend that we would let staff go and create something, like give us a basis. And then how we normally do, we just rip it apart as soon

Thank you, Jim. Appreciate you guys. All right, we have not voted on this yet, right? All right. Anyone else in the audience like to speak on this item?

Yeah, but I'm here. All right, moving on. All right, will the clerk please read item number, are we at number five? Five. We left that one on, right?

Thank you, Jeff. Anyone in the audience like to speak on this item? The applicant?

I thought Steph did a great job explaining the case, and I'm just here to answer any questions you have. Appreciate it. Yes, sir. Anyone in the audience like to speak on this item? All right. I'd like to be the first to say that any time residential wants to change their use to commercial, I'm 100% in favor of that. So thank you for doing that. Obviously, that increased our tax base.

If I may, Mayor, can we have approval on 2026-35, a motion to approve it?

We have a motion to approve. Deputy Mayor Gilbert, second. Council Member Urban, will the clerk please call the roll?

Sir, thank you for staying here and watching our council meeting. I know that's exciting. You might have missed reach or something like that, but this is much more than that TV program.

Thank you, sir All right, well the court please read item number seven

Thank you, Jeffrey. Uh, would the applicant like to speak on this item? Yes, ma'am. Yeah, please. You gotta come to the microphone. Can we get your name and address for the record, please? Your name and address for the record, please.

Okay. So you do have walk-in traffic? Is it advertised? Yes. As walk-in traffic?

Okay. All right. Anyone in the audience like to speak on this item? Any council comment from the applicant?

I would just like to ask for parking if there is going to be drive-up.

Yeah, is it in that building? Yes. There's only one building on that property, or is there a house, another structure?

Okay. I know it's a big piece property there, larger than this. Okay. And there's ample parking for that one business?

Okay. Still had to phone her then. Okay. What is the, the advertising look like? I mean, it's a conditional use.

No, I mean like on the, like on the windows, the doors.

Okay. No, like neon lights? No. Okay. And that's kind of what we want to... I wouldn't say... We want to discourage that kind of signage, right?

Yeah, and that's what I'm trying to not... I wouldn't like to see it like an entertainment area. Yeah. Of novelty entertainment. Yeah. I'm not saying that that's what that is. No, I understand.

I would not discourage any business, but I would recommend if the council would consider front lighting only, not back. This way, the front lighting goes onto the facility itself versus projecting onto the streets or somewhere that. But that's what I would say. The front lighting, usually you'll have a marquee, and you'll have a spotlight spotting that light, directing it towards the facility itself. Backlighting usually projects onto the public venues. So it's on the building? Well, if you have it in the front yard and you have a, a spotlight hitting that it will go on to the building. If you

Dan, is this the first of this type of business to come into the city? Have you seen this before? I think it's pretty interesting.

I have never. Talladega? What's that place?

Cassadega. Cassadega. I've never been. No, I haven't. I'm sorry. Have you? Some Dega. Yeah. No, I don't. There are people I know. Yeah.

Yeah, and mine, I like the idea of that, obviously. And you said it had, like, your business name, Divine...

But no, like, pictures or anything, right? Because that's what I, it's the...

But okay. That's the, that's the, that's just my view on the condition where it's that you're, you're talking about changing the identity of that area when you start putting that type of stuff and that impacts your neighbors. And that's my concern is it's the, the neighbors. That's fine. But I do believe in a business being able to advertise.

Is that... What are y'all's thoughts on this? This is a condition.

CHRIS RODGERS. GO AHEAD. COUNCILMEMBER FLEISCHER. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT WE'RE VOTING ON, RIGHT? SO THE SIGN REGULATIONS, AND OBVIOUSLY I LOVE WORKING WITH EVERYBODY UP HERE, WHAT MAKES IT A DIFFERENT BUSINESS THAN ANOTHER BUSINESS, RIGHT?

WELL, IT'S A CONDITION. WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO IT. WE DO, RIGHT. SO MY THING IS, IT'S AN OFFICE THAT SOMEBODY GOES AND MEETS WITH SOMEBODY what makes it, like, I mean, we already have sign regulations in our code. I don't think, because I believe our sign regulations in our code are actually pretty strict for what we have. Years ago, the council really put some heavy restrictions on signage. I don't think what we have in the code would be necessarily, you know, devastating to that particular area with what we have, but those are my comments.

And that is really the shape and the type of sign. But it's the imagery. That was my concern, is the imagery can change an area, right? And that's what I was asking, what is that? Yes. Is there going to be a big old palm on the window?

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. It's a novelty entertainment thing, right? Yes, I got you. Is it entertainment? I don't know what the proper term is.

And I'm not opposed to the business itself. What is that look?

Yeah, and that's really what the look is. It really starts changing the identity of an area when you start changing the outside. What you do inside, people won't know unless they go to get their palm read.

He's going to end up in Talladega. May I show you?

Can you put it on the screen? Is that able?

Okay, so... Can you show her on that and you can email it?

Ma'am, can you also email that image to the city clerk?

And because it's a conditional use, that's where it, more information the better because that's the.

Dan knows how to describe things for us. I'm just going to take a picture of it. Okay.

Just bring it to the attorney. He'll take care of it. He's sharp.

And the fact that it's a conditional use is that... All right, you can put it up.

When we say something similar, so this is a conditional use, so this is how we give the approval. That's all part of a conditional use.

I was just wanting a visual of what that size is. How big is this image?

And what is that? That's just some, what do they call them, tarot cards? I've never, it's stuff I don't know.

Because it's just going to be right next to another sign. It's just going to blend in.

It'll blend right in. Yeah. What I was thinking was, like, on the window, you're not putting a huge hand in.

Nothing wrong with Kissimmee. I love Kissimmee folks. And it's like tactical. That's my image, you know, that I'm trying not to have. No, I understand. And it's not the business. It's what's allowed, what's been allowed in the past in other areas. I agree. I agree. There's a way to do it, and I think you've done it the right way with this sign.

All right, if we can make that as a condition on that, you're good with that sign?

All right, we got a motion to approve with that condition of that sign. There's two other conditions.

Yes, for those conditions approval. Yeah. That's for the condition. And that's most, right? Correct.

Motion to approve with the conditions set forth by staff and the sign that was showed on the overhead projector as part of the record.

We have a motion from Council Member Fletcher.

Oh, yeah. I'm so sorry. Anyone from the audience like to speak on this item? I think we have Teresa.

Oh, yeah. She needs to, ma'am. She's got the podium.

Teresa, you have to address that. Oh, okay. But she should already know.

Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Teresa. Dan, the applicant said that it's consulting. I'm sorry. Counseling. Counseling. And that was something that stuck in my head is if it's counseling, that's a regulated industry. That's correct.

Dan's been here 28 years, so this is the first we've had this. So this is a new one, right? Yes, sir.

Nobody's accusing. Yeah. No, no, we're not. Nobody's gone down these allegations. No, no, nobody's allegating anything. Um, hold on Teresa. So I think we need to understand, is it entertainment or is it counseling? Well, I think when you, when you blend the two that, that I think that's where the concerns come in and not accusations, but there's concerns with that.

If you go to a restaurant and you order a beer and you drink 12, is it the restaurant's problem or is it your problem?

Well, some would say it's the restaurant. There's dram shop laws.

I understand what you're saying. User beware. Ms. Leo or whatever her name was, Cleo. I just don't know, and again, this is not my bailiwick. I would not do this because of my beliefs, but that's something I wouldn't do, but I don't know how you regulate on this council business. I don't have that answer. Yeah. So that is how we... Again, I don't have that answer. I just...

I got one more. My wife goes to beauty salon to get cut and color. Next thing you know, it's cut and color and she gets her eyebrows done. I just, I don't, I'm sorry.

This is a license. Is it like under DVPR is a clairvoyant?

There's nothing. I don't think there's anything under DBPR for this. I'm not sure. You know, they do, like, nails and real estate. Yeah. All kinds of other things. Okay.

But I think... To Teresa's point, I do understand what she's saying, is that if people go in there, do they have the full understanding, is this entertainment or is this, well, divine? Like, is this the, you know?

I've led a sheltered life, so I don't understand this.

Okay. Is it per the hour? Is that how this... Usually, no.

Yeah, I mean, kind of like what Deputy Mayor was saying, the cool thing about America is you can, there's a lot of different businesses. You can choose to patronize a business or not based on what you believe and what you want to support. So as the city attorney said, this is pretty much a zoning matter. So I would go ahead and second Council Member Fletcher's motion.

That's with the three conditions, the two from staff and the one about the sign. All right. We have a motion from Council Member Fletcher, second from Council Member Urban. Will the clerk please call the roll? Oh, did you have something to say? Oh, you already talked. Yes. I just remembered you had your light and you did speak. City Clerk.

Thank you for hanging in there with all the questions. All right, on to council action. Next up, the main event we've all been waiting for all night, our police chief, Gerke.

Chief, before you move on. Yes, I'm sorry. The school safety one, does that mean SROs too, that $12 can go towards SROs?

The School Crossing Guards goes back to us.

I'm sure the school district loves it, not just the 67,000, but it's safer. In that area, for the students in that area, obviously.

All right. First, would anyone in the audience like to speak on this item? Deputy Mayor.

Thank you, Chief, and thank you for all you do. This is something that I was proponent of as soon as I got on council because I have a nephew that runs charter schools. there was a fatality at one of the schools before the cameras came out and since the cameras, and these are volunteer teachers that sometimes do this versus crossing guards in person. And one of the volunteer teachers was walking someone across and they got hit and killed. And then next thing you know, while we put the cameras and they would go in place. So we got them working. And then I think the tail started wagging a dog be

Because I mentioned your name, he goes, and Micah is putting together a bill for this specific thing, but it has to go through legislators, so that's not going to be that way. So I asked the... I asked the board if we could set up a commission with Osceola County, Seminole County, and Orange County to get together with all the law enforcement agencies. And Mayor Demings and a bunch of mayors and council said, yes, we want the sheriff's office, we want the Florida Highway Patrol, and we want all the police officers there. Because what's happening now is these folks travel through this internet

And I know there's costs to do with that, but I think that, again, you and I had agreed upon, we don't want to... get one penny. We just want it to be safe. We don't want to have to revisit this after a kid gets hit or, God forget it, school crossing guard or multiple people. But I don't know, and I'm asking you because I think you're the best chief in Florida, probably in the United States, but I don't know that. But is this possible that we get these cameras back on and let the people, Vero Mobility, whoever, handled any of the legal issues, which I think they're doing. But I don't know the

It just takes long. So I don't know. Can you give me advice? Would it be possible to turn these back on and do that? Or do we need to wait?

And if I may comment on that, and thank you. You all right over there? I did ask for that meeting with Viral Mobility and the law enforcement agencies that we work with here and I took it a step further and did that with Metro Plan with all the counties that are involved and all the agencies because there are the county, there are the sheriff's departments, there are the police forces that are all kind of combined and everyone's looking at, and I truly believe it's another the tails wagging the dog, but I also believe in our police chief of his knowledge of law and what it takes, so I like his

Correct me if the definition is wrong. A UTC is when an officer pulls somebody over, then they know who's driving. With the cameras, they cannot put it on the driver because they can't identify the person operating that vehicle. Is that correct?

Okay. I need counsel's, any input counsel has, I'd really like to have it, and I really, our chief, is on top of this as well, and those are the folks I met with, Chief, and I know we didn't get a chance to speak, and I don't know I didn't get a chance to speak to counsel on this, but this is big. This is something we need to do.

And I trust the Chief's advice now and what it was in the past. I think we just keep holding tight. They're going to get it right because this is a problem plaguing a lot of folks.

Sometimes they get hit by two speed zones when they go down Michigan.

Sorry, Council Member Urban. Yeah, thank you, Chief, for your presentation. My jaw dropped when I heard that somebody was going 60 in a 15 on Michigan because that's an extremely busy school zone. And I know you guys have been out there physically. I've seen you pulling people over, so I appreciate that. I mean, Deputy Mayor, I absolutely agree. This is vitally important. We've got to get this back online as soon as possible. And I'm glad to hear that. Are you joining in the meeting with this company?

Yeah, I requested the meeting, Council Member, if I can, Mayor. I requested the meeting with the folks, with the chief involved, and I've also been part of the subcommittee with Metro Plan to address that through all three counties. So I volunteered on both bases to be involved with it because I believe time is of the essence, and the reason why is because if one person gets injured or one fatality, That's too many.

Yeah. No, I just wanted to say, I mean, hopefully you can report back to us at our next meeting after you meet with them, and we can have a little bit more guidance if they're wanting to pay for legal fees or whatever, but I'm glad that you're... taking the lead on this to get this prioritized. So I just look forward to hearing from you at the next meeting.

Well, thank you. I haven't got a chance to ask Chief to be a part of these meetings also. Commissioner Krabbe was designated by the governor, and Mayor Demings, of course, is the next police officer. So we're trying to get the right people in line to take care of these issues. Okay, good. He just got appointed, I guess, did District 1 in Orange County or something like that? Yeah, I think Uribe's 2, so he should be 1, but... 1. Thank you, Councilmember Irvin. Don't have the answer. I don't get to talk to you all about this, but... These are one of, you know, we all have certain things we go after. These are one of the big things that I think is important to the city of St. Cloud and also all of Osceola County and all of Florida.

Yeah, but we need to be clear on what's going to come of this meeting. We just want them to, if they're going to move the cameras, that's a whole different, that's what we really want. If they're not going to move the cameras... We don't want to entertain, okay, well, you guys are going to pay the legal fees if we get sued. I don't think we go down in those dark waters. Either they move them or we wait until legislation corrects it.

With Mike, the legislation, I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mayor, I respect you very much, but with the registration, it's going to be until next session. and we're trying to do a stopgap.

I understand, but you trust our police chief. 100%. And I believe that's what he's saying. Let's do this right. And I don't think we just let Veritas... Wag the dog. Whoever they are. Because what's happening is if we just let them lead us down a dark path and say, no, no, we'll be fine. We'll cover your lawsuits. We're going to keep them planted right there. We've already told them we want them to move them. I think we enforce that. And if they don't move them, we tell them to take them out. And then we get a company in that will put them in the right spot. And if we don't do that, then we wa

I'm looking at the chief's experience and expertise in the law. And that's where he's coming from. I just wanted to bring it to you as a counsel what research and what I've been working at. I'm not going to answer any questions here about what we should or shouldn't do.

You're in a great room with highly educated elected officials, the mayors, the other folks. Are there law enforcement agencies turning them on?

that's the meeting to have and that's what they did mayor demings uh wants to turn him back on the just mr crabby he was was he with florida i'll see orange county sheriff's office yes so they do but they don't have those answers yet so i i might be premature but i'm reporting to council of what the conversations are because i don't get to talk to you guys on a daily basis So they all are for getting it done. The process ease to get it done, Mayor, I don't have those yet. I, like you, would like to rely on our police chief to make those decisions for us as a leader of our community here. and a

I love these cameras, and it breaks my heart that they're not. Obviously, it was working. I believe it obviously was effective. That company, I don't know why they haven't moved them. Did they pull a permit yet? Have they attempted to do anything?

Then that's the path they need to go down and not just say, hey, we'll cover any lawsuits.

Again, I don't have those answers. I'm just reporting back to council. Yeah.

We want them to move them. That's if... And if they don't move them, we wait till the law changes.

With Micah, he's putting them together. We're working together. I don't have a stopgap for you, but that is something that is for legislation, but that's against the next legislation's areas.

Have we spoken with our government affairs lobbyists on this issue?

How many agencies do we know that have kept them on when they are outside of the school zone?

says they're safe in their interpretation.

The only thing I'm confident is they said they're safe enough that they would spend any financial liability in that. But again, I agree with you 1,000%, Mayor. I'm going to rely on our police chief and his knowledge and his knowledge of the law and his connections. to advise us as council of what actions to take next. I just wanted to bring up to council what I've been doing on the separate entity of the Metro Plan, which is mostly safety zones with e-bikes and different things like that. So I just had to bring that up, too, of what I did. in the meeting so so there's frustrated agencies out t

We've already taken public comment. Anyone else from council want to? All right. Chief, do you have anything else to add? No, sir. Thank you very much for the presentation and for answering our questions. All right. Next up, first reading and introduction. We have absolutely no first reading and introductions.

Are we getting any revenue? It expired two years ago, but are we getting the revenue?

Let the city manager tell you how much they paid. Take me a minute. I got it.

For what? 2025? Why did we collect that if the agreement expired?

We should have mailed it back. I was... What was it, $225? A little less than $300. $268, okay. And what do these things rent? I mean, there's signage all over it.

I apologize, but this is another thing I've been working on. The agreement was in 1996 when the original agreement became an agreement with 2020 Media. In 1997, there's an addendum to that agreement, and I don't have it with me, but I'm sure the city manager and council can get it to you. And with that, they're supposed to put shelters on the bus benches, and they're supposed to be starting shelters that actually... We're working with LINCS right now and Metro Plan. We have two designated grants for shelters on 192 that they're gonna be building with their agreement with LINCS. No part of that

City Manager. I just wanted to clarify about the payment. The last payment was $246.60, and it was for the time period of January to December 2025. So he typically pays us

His agreement expired in December of 24. Yeah, that's why I would not receive another... If we get one in, ship it right back. Right, I know, but you're acknowledging. The moment you cash that check, you're saying, okay, we can continue on.

So, again, we— Well, at this point, it's 100 percent because there is no agreement. And, you know, thanks for doing the work for us. So the next step is— For the taxpayers, so—

Just one more comment. I did call the owner of the business, or he called me to ask for a meeting. We had set up a meeting, and he no-showed.

It wasn't good for me. It just took the shortest meeting I ever had. All right.

Right. And I mean, nothing's really changed other than they entered into, I'm not going to use the word illegal, inappropriate agreement with somebody else while we still have it under contract. Right. So we're still within the due diligence time. We're still just moving forward on how we gave direction last meeting right yes october 20th october 20th we still have due diligence for another month and i don't even know what day it is september 11th a month and a week and a half um so i say we just keep moving forward and get real numbers on on renovations and and we don't have to drop it until

If we decided not to, we have a whole other council meeting next month.

Yeah, have we had anybody go in there and do any estimates since three and a half weeks?

All right. So do we have a roof number yet? Because that doesn't need inside access. Do we have a roof number? Do we have any numbers in the past three and a half weeks? I don't know. And we should have just kept moving forward like business as usual because we still have it under contract.

What we said was we were going to ask for due diligence time to do more investigation on the estimates for the repairs, and if they granted it to us, that's when we'll do the estimates, and they granted it to us. Well, so if they weren't, they were going to drop it that day. That's what that's what we agreed on. And so we're three and a half weeks later and we have nothing.

Yeah, I just don't want to sit. If we know your legal interpretation is we still have it under agreement. Why would we wait three and a half weeks to come back to us and say. Well, what do you want us to do? Well, I mean, you got us the 60 days. Let's get some estimates. Well, I think it's important as long as the council understands that. Because I think those numbers, I mean, how do you go from, well, it's going to take $60,000 to $400,000 to repair this. What the hell does that mean?

I think we would have made that last meeting. I think that's why we extended it out. We asked for the extension. They granted it to us. We still have that extension until October 20th.

We said, because it was one day prior, we said if they don't grant, drop it. That's what we said. If they grant it, let's go get estimates, get real numbers, and then we'll make a decision.

We have to act like that part didn't happen. Because it's not real. They can do that all they want and have their own opinion, but we do have it under agreement.

I'd just like to see real numbers. I mean, we get real numbers on everything else.

We can get window numbers. We can get roof numbers. We can get gutter numbers. I mean, there's a lot, and those are the big ticket items.

but we were gonna get estimates too. I mean, we'll play the actual video, because that's what we asked for, actual numbers in the meantime.

Because I talked to the inspector, and it wasn't as serious as it was. in the council meeting as it was relayed to us. There's no extensive termite damage upstairs. There were pellets. That's why he recommended a tent because there was evidence of WDO. But there was not, he did not see termite damage in the trusses where he saw the pellets. So let's not, we have to clear that up because that's what was said from the podium from our staff. That's not accurate. So that, that really makes it sound a lot worse. Oh yeah. It's all extensive termite damage up there, whatever, however it was said, tha

Yeah. We know it's an old roof. We know there's all this. So I just want to, let's get a more realistic number, because obviously those estimates that we got from staff were not real. How do you go from, oh, this costs between $20,000 and $80,000? I think there's a number somewhere in between. There's many numbers somewhere in between, a real number.

Colby's out of the room right now. Is he? What are your thoughts? We have time. Of course we have time. It doesn't cost us a dollar.

But we really have to do it. I'm sorry. I'd like to see what you'd ask for is a specific... evaluation of in and out while we need access to the facility also which i did not know that we are denied access right so we've been sitting for three and a half weeks and nothing and we're under if you go and tie a piece of property under contract and they don't grant your access you're going to get pretty mad it usually takes me about you know 14 days to get the inspectors, to get the contractors, to get the real numbers before I buy a property. Not saying that's the magic number because sometimes it

And that was my concern with last meeting is the numbers were so far apart of reality. I don't have that answer. How do we go, it's going to cost $100,000, but we put $200,000 of contingency?

Let's get estimates, because that's what we do in the contract in construction. You get estimates, here's what it's actually going to cost.

What is the process if they don't come to a security?

You saw the movie Money Pit, haven't you?

Oh, yeah. But that's why we had an inspection already. There has been inspection. And I spoke with the inspector on the long train ride back from Florida League of Cities down there. And I went through the whole inspection report. prior to the last meeting. And that's why I was asking questions. Everything that was coming back to me did not add up to the conversation with the actual inspector. It was made to be bigger problems than what actually came from the inspector's mouth.

I'm not going after staff. Let me tell you. My point is the appraisal was done on the actual condition of the property. There's that. The inspection's done on the actual condition of the property. The numbers that came at us were not real numbers. You can't go from 100,000, between 100 and 400,000. I don't know if that's exactly the numbers that were said. But how can anybody make up a decision sitting up here with those kind of numbers? They don't mean anything. That's not real work. That's just, I can come up with those numbers in five minutes. We can get a roof an estimate there. I bet Sean

All right. Coop's got something to say. He said we got a lot of extra money somewhere.

Because the inspection is October 20th. So the closing, what's the November meeting?

That's within 30 days of after due diligence.

It's just good to see all the numbers when we make decisions up here. That's all I'm asking for. And I'm not blaming staff, obviously, or I would have said that. They're not qualified to do roof estimates. Kevin's not a roofing guy, right, Kevin? You don't do roofs? You don't do plumbing? You don't do electrical? That's not your wheelhouse. You're an engineer, right? So that's where I just want somebody to give me real numbers so we actually make sound decisions for the With our tax dollars, I mean, I didn't think that was too much to ask. All right, city attorney, is that all? That's all I ha

That's two months from the expiration of the release, right?

And we're going to still move forward on designing during that process, right? We still have access.

It's not the guy that did the breaks, is it?

And that's at a no cost to them? Is that how we offer it up? Correct.

So I wanted to share some important thoughts. I believe a healthy community depends on our ability to discuss city issues with honesty, accountability, and respect. Residents hold different perspectives, ask hard questions, and can challenge decisions without resorting to personal name calling. As elected officials, we were elected to serve the people, not to engage in extreme or demeaning name calling. Public service requires us to listen, remain accessible, and be accountable to the people we represent. We do our part, making ourselves available and meeting with individuals. At the same time

So this would be a proclamation that you give directly to him?

I'm in favor of that. And I think October 1st is the last day, so that would be perfect.

Yes. All right. And then I, just for the record, I did meet with Bill Filson on September 3rd regarding their lease proposal and like to see when we will have a conversation about that because I know He's waiting patiently to hear back on what direction they would like to go because he has already invested into the pit and doing capital improvements as well. And he has future capital improvements he would like to do, but he just needs a decision on that lease proposal. So just wanted to bring that up. Is that your light for this? Yes.

Yeah, on that, I love the golf course. Love Bill. Great group of people. I mean, but at 70 years, I mean, we're essentially selling the golf course. None of us are going to be alive in 70 years.

We're selling the golf course, but not really. We're selling it through a lease. And so what are we getting out of revenue?

This is the last deal we'll ever make on this thing.

There's smoke coming out of his ear, so I really wanted to say something.

Well, I just think we don't need to be Ray Kroc.

Explain. I'll bring it by short detail. Ray Kroc went to San Diego one day and saw the McDonald's brothers making McDonald's the first time there's ever been industrialized burgers. So he stole their idea and then he bought their company. And the way Ray Kroc and McDonald's made the money was not by the building itself, was by buying the land and leasing it to the buildings and the franchisees. So Ray Kroc, the founder of McDonald's, made most of his money by 99 year leases for McDonald's to be put on him. So I don't think we need to be in that business.

I mean, I'm probably in the minority on this. Actually, I know I'm sure I'm in the minority on this because I'm an avid golfer, but I think having a golf course in your community is an amenity that not every city can say they have. And if you look at other cities like Orlando, like Dubstrad, other places that have municipally owned golf courses, they don't pay anything. It's an amenity that the city offers to the residents of the people. I'm in favor of the seven-year lease, but that's... Dubs Dread's free? Free? What do you mean, Dubs Dread? I don't know if it's Dubs Dread specifically, but t

Who owns the clubhouse and the event? That's a different issue. They do make money.

And Winter Park's in a much better situation than we are financially. That's Orlando. Oh, Orlando. It's not quite in the Winter Park? No, it's in Orlando.

You've been there? He's like the president of all of them.

So they had a 50- Didn't you just say that they can't get the free water from Toho?

Oh, that's a year. That's what they want to pay? Right now they're paying $5,000 a month?

Okay. And here's the problem. We are not like Winter Park. We're not like anybody else. We can't even afford to hire five new police officers that are much needed next year, or the 25 that's needed. We cannot sell ourselves short on anything. We own two buildings that can be restaurants. That one at the lake, which that's up right now, and we're limited in what we can make on that. So to go backwards and collect less, that's a disservice. Especially signing up, it's beyond our terms. I mean, that's really, I get it right now, it'd be great to, Bill's great. Golf course is great. Love the place

That neighborhood Walmart down there, they're paying $25,000 a month. And that's a hundred year deal. That's a 20 year five, you know, with four extensions, four 20 year extensions. That's a hundred year deal, which essentially they're asking for almost that 70. So, you know, I can understand a lease like that because that's all that. That's a ground lease. And, um, Yeah, I just can't. The numbers don't make sense.

I mean, if they want to pay us $25,000 a month, now we're talking some real numbers. Now we can hire some police officers. Now we can take care of our city and our residents. But that's going backwards. That's not helping us any. Love the golf course. I go out once a year with the Chamber Golf Tournament. It's fun. Our police chief won't ever go out and play with us. Dangerous or not. That's it. I mean, it's really, it is an amazing thing out there, and it's just, we just, we have limited sources of revenue in our city. Yes, sir.

I was listening to Colby. I didn't know if he had anything else.

I'm sorry, Colby. I mean, listen, I made my peace. I understand I'm not in the majority here, but I would just warn if... If they don't do a long-term lease, this golf course, which has invested a lot into this as a capital investment that they've made, is probably not going to stick around. And then we've got this property. Is it going to be apartments? Is it going to be... It's not going to be a golf course. Well, we've determined that. I mean, if we don't want apartments, we don't... I'm just saying, it's an open space. It's basically a park, an amenity for the residents. and it might not b

I would ask if we can bring it back and wait for Gorman to decide rather than just making a decision tonight. Oh, yeah, we're not bringing a decision tonight.

I didn't even talk to Bill about carving off some land and taking that out of the deal and saying, hey, Gohmann, look at this. Would this be a good hotel site? Some other use. Let us throw another restaurant out there. I don't know.

The golf course, where are we at right now with them? Do we know where we're at with them, where Gohmann is? Because Bill told me he was willing to cut out all that land. Is that... dealing, is that idea in the trash? Did he ever bring that up? So he didn't even care about my comments.

Yeah. And my concern amendment three is polling. We've seen the polling numbers. this is an important decision because if we don't, if we lose an ad valorem tax base, we've got to make up for it somewhere. And that golf course that we have to look at this as a business, you know, it's, it's love golf, love the sport. If you can call it a sport, call me. I don't know. I'm just, it's the hardest sport I've ever played. No, it's great. It really is. But we have to look at the numbers. Is it financially sound? If you own that piece of property, would you do that deal? That's how we have to look at

I think we just need more information. If Goldman's asking the question, is there a representation, let's push this, and I don't like pushing things. No, I'm saying there's more information that Goldman Young's waiting for. Let's wait for that before we make a decision on this council.

They're still waiting from the Gulf Force for more numbers, you said?

Let's put it on the table and get a full package, as the mayor said, even just like this building. Let's get a full package before we talk about it.

It's like the neighborhood Walmart. John Joyce built it and sold it. It was purchased the day it opened. Yep. April 2014.

I don't know if anybody knows this, but the financiers for the St. Cloud Golf Course is the founder of Discover Park.

Perfect. Can we just wait for more information? And, Kobe, I get it. Municipalities are great. Golf course is great. My kid's been out there. I think it's a great links course. There's very few links course also, and it's 27 holes, which is another valuable. I don't want to lose it, but I don't want to give away the farm. But I think we do really benefit from having a golf course here.

I completely understand that. Somebody's got to knock out this power bill. I would like to get some more information and have a more educated decision in the future.

It's your time. No, I'm still. I'm sorry. Sorry, Council Member Ball. Oh. Yes.

I'm sorry. City Attorney, are you down? You good? Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. All right.

When I go downtown to the businesses, because I do shop at some of them, eat down there, and hang out as well, I always speak with the business owners. And recently, one of the concerns from a business owner, and I know Tisha has also met with the downtown business group. And some of them used to have, like, sidewalk sales and a pop-up shop, a tent where people would come and put the tent in front of their business. And then also, as a group, they used to have events as well. One of the concerns was the special event, I think, where is it each business have to do the special event or is it und

I mean, it helps that I can relay it back to them, but I just told them I would bring it up because they do watch the meetings and they can go back and hear from themselves of what actually was said in the meeting. But I just wanted to bring that up. And the last thing I have is that Just for the record, we did all receive the email from Ms. Erin Jinks regarding the St. Cloud Citizens Foundation. I know Dan responded to the city council, and then our city manager responded back to Ms. Erin Jinks, but I just wanted to put that on record, and I'm done. Thank you.

Yeah, I just had the opportunity to meet with the South Florida Water Management and their field office over there. Great meeting, great group of people. It brought me back to the, was it Hurricane Irma or Ian? One of those where we had the flood risks and all throughout the city and all the pumps and everything that had to be set up. and it's just great to have a great partner there. They work year-round to do a lot of things, not just that, but especially during hurricane season and the floods. It was very educational and great, and I would encourage the city council, if you haven't already,

Yeah, I believe Council Member Paul and myself, we've gone out. Have you all been out there yet in South Florida? No. I went out there, oh God, what year are we in? When it was under construction. I knew the contractor out there, Dutch McGinnis is his name. But yeah, what a cool facility. Nicole gave you the tour and that whole crew. I sit on the East Central Florida Regional Planning, it's a long, Regional Planning Commission with her as well. All right, Council Member Fletcher.

Um, I just want to reiterate, um, thank you to staff again for all the budget work. Um, and then also to the council for the wreaths across America. That was a big help. Um, I did want to bring up, um, I believe that I had asked for a resolution to be brought back for the mobility fees and I'm wondering why it's not here again.

Which is, I think, why we've been talking about it.

Sorry, Sean, I was just commenting. So my thing is, so we had a discussion several meetings ago, and we added the, we were talking about commercial, and then I asked for the residential portion. Then at another meeting, I asked, let's bring back the residential portion only. I don't care right now about the commercial. I want the residential brought back to raise it back to the 100%. When we're looking at the budget with the mobility fees and we're trying to generate revenue, going back to the 100% makes sense. When we had our joint meeting with Osceola County, the first thing they said was, h

Because I think with the You know, it was advertised. It was advertised, it was approved at a discount. The development community, all of the associations, they were all aware that this was a temporary discount and it could come back at any other time. And I don't think it's more restrictive. They all are aware.

So what happens if we move forward anyways? Because we don't necessarily have to follow every county, every city, every jurisdiction.

And I don't have a light. So what's the point of, why not just say, here's what the fee is? Like what's the point of having a discount and playing all those, the numbers game when you just say, here's what the fee is. And then if you got to raise it, you do another study. But now.

So the 15% applied to both commercial and residential, not just commercial?

I do think a better... Because the formula, their methodology is challenged. Exactly, right, yeah. It's all based on the methodology. Now I understand why the need for a discount.

So the way that the discount came about back when we were going through the seed study and all that stuff is they were threatening lawsuits because of what they considered too much of a price.

All of them. All of them. They were fighting it. So working with the Homeowners Association and all the other entities, the thought was like, all right, let's discount 15%. Let it all work in. Let it all get under play, you know, so that there wasn't such a big hit. And then come back at a later date, and raise it. So now that we've adopted, at a 15 percent discount, everything is in play, now we can't raise it back up, is what we're being told. As easy as was initially... We can't simply, yes.

I do believe that- But that also brings the commercial up.

Is that what we're talking about on this? The mobility piece?

Is that on my desk maybe? I've never seen a draft.

Right. Okay, that's why I just caught up with them the rest of the week.

So that's where the... And you can't treat it like the building permit fees where you just vote to reduce it like we do. If they were collecting too much money, we can't just start collecting less?

I'm glad this council started having that discussion months ago. At least we've got a path forward.

You're up next. Okay. I'm just paying attention.

You're still up council member Fletcher.

You have, um, that's all I have. Thank you, man. All right.

Thank you, Mayor. Just so you know, the Florida Turnpike expansion is ahead of schedule. It's all the way from here to Miami. I know it sounds slow, but we're about a year ahead of schedule for completion of it. Go to Florida Turnpike FDOT and look at where we're going, but it is ahead of schedule. Just FYI, four years ago, A ton of asphalt was $400. Today it's $1,200. Just so if you want to know why costs are associated with it, it's the cost of materials. We do have $1.5 billion already allocated for Osceola County for new streets and roads and things such as that through the Metro Plan area

Oh, it's not like right by the Florida Mall with all that traffic.

No, no, but you have somebody walking you, but you actually have a blind experience where you're going and your centuries pick up. It's wild because then your hearing gets better and your feeling gets better, but it's a blind experience, but everybody here is invited to do that.

I've done it. Oh, you've done it? Yeah. I just want to invite everybody because it's interesting. It's like, whoa, because close your eyes and walk across the street and hear the horns and hear everything gets magnified because of our census. But that happens, and everybody here is there. The Lake to Lake Trail, we're meeting with Osceola County, and it's going to go through Okeechobee. I'm fighting for it to come through St. Cloud because it will be the last stop, and I talked to the city manager about that. before this really desolate area to bring the bike trail from lake to lake. There's a

Yes, asphalt lane. And then it'll be incorporated in what we have here. And it'll go through St. Cloud all the way down to the lake. From Okeechobee going up? All the way north, yeah, to Ocala.

Walker Ranch is probably, that's part of the reason we're doing Walker Ranch. That's a Walker property?

That sidewalk's going to cut all the way down to Okeechobee? It's going to come through. What I'll do is once the- I remember you talking about connectivity, but I didn't realize it's- Yeah.

We won't have that tourism, that bike tourism. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE EVER BEEN ON WEST ORANGE TRAIL. THERE'S DEFINITELY SOME TOURISM THERE, SO WE'RE TRYING TO WORK HARD. SO I VOLUNTEERED TO MEET WITH USVILLE COUNTY AS ONE OF THE METRO PLAN MEMBERS ON THAT SUBCOMMITTEE. SO I'LL UPDATE YOU THEN. GET US A TRAIN, MA'AM. GET US A SUNRAIL. I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH SOTO. I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH CONGRESSMAN SOTO TO DO THAT, AND WE MET WITH METRO PLAN. SOTO MET WITH THEM, AND I MET WITH THEM. SO WE'VE GOT THE INITIAL AND THE CITY BROUGHT IT OUT ALL THE WAY FROM THE AIRPORT THROUGH ORANGE COUNTY DOWN THER

Well, they didn't, and I don't know why. And other than that, I would just like to say thank you guys. I think we're getting a lot done, and I think this council I appreciate letting me report to. I don't get to talk to you about that, but that's what I've been doing over this past month, and I'll continue to do so. So thank you guys very much, and I yield back to you on this, Mayor.

All right. Well, hopefully we'll have four more years of you on that board. I think you love that thing. You're making progress, I'll tell you. Yeah, also, I was at the firefighter soaring in ceremony. Thank you, Chief Miller. Amazing job, as always. Yeah, you got to hold the baby. I know the city manager was jealous of that. A little jelly. I want the baby. No, that was so cool, especially with the firefighter had his two sons up there, and when the families are a part of it, that's a special moment for those folks.

Oh, I saw even more family members. The dad was explaining, you know, that's my daughter over there, that's my son. You hear that, Chief? Well, the other side, you're not green. I mean, green, green, green, green.

Let's get it on. Um, no. What a great experience. Always. Uh, I wasn't able to make the last one. The deputy mayor was the last one. And I know you had a bunch of them coming in and, uh, we're pretty much there at the 48. Are we pretty close? Sorry, I didn't mean it. I know you're playing Bejeweled or something over there. Something else other than that.

Fireboat's coming online. Can you show me some video of that?

What do we get? We, we got three 50 from the state for that.

Yeah, and if you just go back to like the past five years, and you know, that's probably when you ordered the ladder truck, and now you get the fire boat, and we got three new fire stations, and so we're gonna break ground on the public safety complex. I mean, we are really putting the money where our mouths are. We're really taking it serious when it comes to public safety.

Yeah, and as our city grows, obviously, you know, you can't stop the growth. We all know that. And we all say, well, we can manage the growth. This is part of managing the growth, is keeping up with the public safety. And I don't think the public really sees that. That's a huge part of managing the growth. It's keeping the crime down. Chief, did you want to add to it? Oh, you're walking up. That's right. I am now. Would you agree? That's a major component of managing the growth in our community. It's not just voting on this development or that development, annexing this one, that one. Ensuring

First advocate with the drones. Orlando had to copy us, right?

Absolutely. Used our footage. Yes. St. Cloud's footage. That is correct.

And these are long-term investments, especially the fire headquarters we're about to open, right? I believe the week of October.

Yeah. And Dan knows this. It's cyclical. The development of these projects... You remember when you did city hall here and you essentially in those five years you did lakefront city hall, the PD, there were a number of projects that became the turnpike. I mean a lot of capital improvement projects and fast forward 20, 25 years later, now we're at it again with, you know, we've got the public safety complex, we've got the new fire headquarters, we've got how many, how many fire stations in the past five years?

We've got the first ladder truck. I mean, it's just an amazing time to sit on council here.

And RoboDog's coming, too, right? Sorry? RoboDog?

Look at all these amazing things we've got. And it's just so cool to be a part of that. Because five years from now, I think it's just going to be kind of flatlined again. And then another 10 years after that, it's going to go right into another round of these type of projects.

Yeah, because there's many phases of that. Okay. I just want to thank you guys.

Yeah, the age of cameras, it's interesting, isn't it?

Thank you. Yes. They're walking around with these.

Appreciate you. Um, I just want to point out the, um, obviously y'all know the past month in August, we had some issues with St. Cloud mobile home park, uh, OUC city of St. Cloud stepped up, um, made sure that the power, everything was operating correctly and everything the city has done. I know the city manager and staff have done everything they can up to this point. Um, along with the city, uh, at the city attorneys, uh, with his advice, Council Member Paul, myself, we've been out there. City Manager brought some food out there. We went out there a number of times. Even I think the second t

Yeah. And when I, you say staff, the chiefs, both of them assisted with everything. I know you were out there, chief Miller, Bob Detheridge was out there as Pete chief filling a bunch.

And I just played my role. We all have different roles here and we all come together. And when we have situations like this, I, I wouldn't say we weren't prepared for this. I think that we just all kind of had to come together and figure it out and to help our folks out. But I think maybe we need to discuss. if this happens again in the future. We obviously know we've got the fire chief, and he knows his roles. I'm glad that we have Richard over at Osceola Response Team now as a tool in our chest, that something like this happens, we can pick up the phone, we know he'll be there. That's someth

With that being said, we have an information section here for everybody. I know everybody loves to hear this stuff. Friday, September 11, 2026, Veterans Council meeting. Wait a minute. September 12th, right? No, September 11th.

Gotcha. We're almost there. Yes, Friday, September 11, 2026, Veterans Council Meeting, 1 p.m., City Hall. Thursday, September 17, 2026, Special City Council Meeting, 6.30 p.m., City Hall, Council Chambers. Thursday, October 1, 2026, Community Redevelopment Agency Meeting, 3 o'clock, City Hall, Council Chambers. Thursday, October 8th, 2026, City Council Meeting, 6.30 p.m., City Hall, Council Chambers. Reports weren't listed. Number 11, Fiscal Year 26, Community Redevelopment Agency Minutes, May 7th, 2026, Economic Development Advisory Committee Recommendations Letter. And with that, this meetin