City Council - Regular Meeting

Thank you all for being here. Appreciate everybody coming out this evening. Would you please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for

Thank you. Will the city clerk please call the roll?

Present. We'd like to take a moment at the start of our meetings to recognize young people that attend our meetings. We see them as being our next generation of city council members. Hopefully you get it in your blood and you want to come back and sit up here in the future. So thank you for being here and I suspect some of you will want to address us a little later in the meetings. I look forward to it. Moving on to the agenda, do I have a motion to approve our agenda?

Second. All those in favor? Aye. Motion passes. Presentations and proclamations. Item 2A on our agenda is a proclamation honoring one of our past council members. This is in memory and honor of our former former council member Robin Ferris. Whereas the city of Puyallup mourns the passing of former city council member Robin Ferris, who passed away on August 27, 2026, and joins her family, friends, colleagues, and community in remembering a life defined by service, leadership, and dedication to others. And whereas Robin was raised in Puyallup and was a proud graduate of Puyallup High School, mai

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, for some reason, Councilmember Adler and I have switched identities.

I actually, I think for a moment, all of the buttons were saying that you all are Councilmember Adler.

So we got it corrected now. Mr. Mayor, I would like a point of privilege after you've acknowledged everyone, please.

I have finished my acknowledgments. Go ahead, Councilmember Castamante.

Oh, thank you. If anyone else would like to speak, I would like to say a few words. Last week, I talked in my personal comments about former Councilmember Robin Ferris. And I wanted to make some comments tonight because she requested that I make them. And I want to live up to that promise. Before Robin Farris passed away, she asked me to share a story with the public. And I think, as many of you know, that Robin and I agreed on a lot of things. And we disagreed on a lot of things. But we were colleagues, our family. She was very close to my family. But she wanted me to share a story that I had

Thank you for that, Councilmember Kastner. And I think a lot of us feel We've worked with Robin, and I think we all are a little tenderhearted here tonight. And so I'd like to just give everybody the opportunity to say a few words if they're so inclined. Deputy Mayor Johnson.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'd like to speak, too, in honor of our former colleague and all the great work that she did here on the eight years. I, too, share some great memories with Robin. Her and I were elected at the same night, our first time to city council. I remember celebrating together with her. I, too, had a real fondness for her as a colleague and respect for her as a colleague. But, you know, sometimes we disagreed on a few things. But we never let that get in the way between us. We had disagreements, but it was really never this large feud. She didn't see me as her enemy, and I didn't

me that would be appropriate uh memoir for her grandfather and for her as one of our study leaders thank you mr mayor and seeing no other names on the list up council member adler is going to have to wait for me very good uh i you know i served with with robin for four years and and we You know, council members never agree on everything, but we agreed on a lot. And whether we agreed or disagreed, the one thing that I really believe about Robin is her heart was always in the right place. she always tried to do what she felt was right. And I just admire that characteristic. There wasn't much pol

Thank you. I'll be brief. I just, what I'm about to say, I said last week, during our council comments. But as the individual who has the honor and privilege of succeeding Council Member Ferris in the seat that she represented, and because she was a friend, this is tough, like it is for many of us in this room. uh as i often say and as i said last week i believe you die twice one when your body is done on this earth and the second time when they stop telling stories about you and as council member castema demonstrated tonight in in the story that council member ferris shared with him Council M

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. As my colleagues have mentioned here tonight, Councilmember Ferris was a staple in this city. Her and I got along, and even though we might not agree on a few things, we got along fairly well. Civility on this council was very strong. She understood that. Having conversations, having difficult conversations, even when You don't agree. And understanding how to get from point A to point B, even when things were tough and discussions were hard, she understands civility. She also thought she understood jokes. And some got them, some didn't. And she knew that. But the biggest

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Council Member Ferris was a very wonderful and didn't know what to expect sometimes with her as a person. But one thing she did believe in was the youth of our community. And some of my most fond memories of her were her And our amazing former council members, Dor and Shadco, would come to the youth center and just love on the kids. Lots of great memories decorating the daffodil float together. Lots of memories of Council Member Ferris trying to give tips on leadership. And again, just taking opportunities to speak life into young people whenever she had that opportunity.

Okay. I'd like to invite our friends of of Councilmember Ferris to come forward and receive the proclamations at this time and get some pictures. And anybody amongst that group that would like to speak, I welcome it.

I want to thank everybody for their patience with us. We had some tender feelings here tonight and delayed the other city business for a bit. I appreciate your patience. We have another proclamation, this one for the College Appreciation Week. And it goes as follows. Whereas the city of Puyallup recognizes the profound impact that higher educational institutions have on the intellectual, cultural, and economic development of our community, And whereas colleges and universities contribute significantly to the local economy, provide valuable educational opportunities, foster innovation, and prep

OK, we will now move into our citizen comment phase. Could the city clerk please provide instructions for public comment?

Thank you. Our next speaker will be Noah Reyes.

Thank you. Next, we'll hear from Chris Louis Antonio.

Thank you. Our next speaker will be Jim Jenkins.

Thank you. Next speaker will be Jim Jenkins. Oh, sorry. We want you to get it right next time. Sorry.

Thank you. Our next speaker will be Paul Wicklander.

Thank you. Our next speaker will be Dave Sunich.

Thank you, Dave. Our next speaker will be Valerie Dent.

Thank you. Our next speaker will be Noor Al-Bermani. Thank you.

Thank you. Next, we'll hear from Archer Grimes.

Thank you. Next, I'm struggling with the last name. Jessica? Degner. Degner. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next speaker will be Mitzi McMahon.

Thank you. Next, we'll hear from Leanne Mahaffey. Mahaffey. Mahaffey.

Our next speaker will be Nadine Weinreich.

Thank you. Our next speaker will be Andrew Lynn at Square Doe.

Thank you. Next, we'll hear from Rebecca Singer.

Thank you. That concludes the speakers that have signed up in advance. At this time, we give those that are present that might like to speak. I see a hand if you'd like to come forward. Please state your name and your district or residence.

Thank you. Anybody else like to speak at this time? Okay. Next on our agenda is the consent agenda. These are items that are considered to be non-controversial and likely to receive a unanimous vote. Council members have the ability to pull any item off for further discussion. Is there any such request?

Second. The consent agenda's approval has been moved and seconded. All those in favor, please so indicate. Motion passes. We now are going to start on our public hearing about the street vacation. a public hearing and first reading of an ordinance to vacate a portion of West Main between 6th Street Southwest and 7th Street Southwest and all of 7th Street Northwest between West Main and 2nd Avenue Northwest. We have our Development and Permitting Services Director, Courtney Brunell, to introduce the public hearing.

Thank you. And I will now open our public hearing. Each speaker is allowed two minutes. Nobody has signed up at this point. Everybody will get a chance to speak. Val, you want to go first?

Thank you. Any additional speakers? With that, I will close the public hearing. Do I have a motion to approve the first reading of the ordinance? Council Member Gilliam.

I would like to know how to proceed a little bit by making a motion to approve. How much time do we have to actually work on the concerns of the residents before second reading? What's the process here?

Okay. So team, council member team here, first of all, student safety is number one. Residential safety is number one. They're not two separate issues. I am very proud of Principal Sunnage. He came up here with, he listened to us. He put something together. I'm a little disappointed in the students. You advocated for your school, but you're not thinking about the impact that you have on the community. And that breaks my heart a little bit as a teacher. Thank you for sharing your mind. Thank you for saying, hey, this is important to us. But I'd also like to hear you say, hey, you know what? I'm

We need a precise. We need a precise number.

Yes. Keep in mind, we can postpone those meetings, too. Am I correct? In other words, if we give a date certain and we decide that we do, in fact, not want to have it at that date, we can set another date, correct?

So I make a motion to approve second reading. Sorry, forgive me. Whoa, forgive me. I make a motion to approve first reading and postpone second reading until January. What's the first meeting in January that we will be here for?

Okay. Well, maybe we should do the last one in December then, whenever that one is available.

December 8th, to allow the Puyallup School District to implement what they can as we work towards working with the community to be able to approve second reading.

Second. We have a motion moved and seconded. Is there any discussion?

Councilmember Kastner, do you? Yes, I do. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Actually, I have spent time observing the PHS campus under the current scenario. I've also gone through the Heffron report. I've also looked at the study that was done on Fruitland Elementary School, and you'll see why that is relevant as I bring that up. And if it's possible, I have a proposal. If not, I will just go ahead and ad lib it from there. But if you could put something on the screen, my observations I would like to be able to provide to the public. If not, everyone here has been given those observations. As you can see,

I'll second that. Yeah, I'll second that.

Thank you. Will you accept the proposed amendment? I do accept the proposed amendment. Thank you. OK, so we now have a motion and no amendments, which is the way I like it. Deputy Mayor Johnson, are you complete? Council Member Kastemann? I have another amendment, but I'll wait in queue. OK, Deputy Mayor Johnson.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Sometimes I've decided tonight to talk about this rationally and keep the emotion or my own personal preferences out of it. I do believe and know, without a shadow of a doubt, that we can come up a collaboration between the school city staff and council, and the neighborhood, no question in my mind that we can come up with a plan. I don't think we're there yet, but we're close because we'll get there. We can come up with a plan that will provide safety for the students and the neighbors. We can get there, and we will get there. In fact, I don't see it going without it. So

Darn it, Deputy Mayor Johnson, you threw a curveball. And I'm trying to think about that as I give my thoughts and remarks on this. That was very interesting. I kind of like it, but I think that Gosh, why did I have to go after you? I had to think about that one. But obviously, the biggest thing I think about tonight is obviously the mitigation of the drop-off and pickup. The solution is firm communication by moving the pickup to the north and northeast. And just add some more time to think about Councilmember Kastema's proposal and amendment. Councilmember Johnson does have some valid points.

Okay. I'm going to weigh in at this point. When in time, I'd like to start off by just identifying the magnitude, quantifying the relative magnitude of the problem. We've got 15 portables there. If we say 20 students come from each portable and end up crossing that street, some of them may stay in place. So assuming 20 at a time, that would be 300 students crossing 7th. those students have to be replaced by other students coming from campus. So that would be another 300 students coming from the other direction. So that's 600 students, 300 from one direction and 300 from the other direction. An

Thank you. So I certainly have a lot of thoughts and things to say, but I am going to try to keep this short and sweet. So a couple of things. to just be very direct and plain talk. So number one, I have said it before, I support the vacation of 7th. I went to Puyallup High School. I graduated almost 20 years ago. Many of you have heard me say this before. When I was at Puyallup High School, a classmate of mine was hit in front of the gym. This is very real to me. Obviously, the situation has not gotten better in 20 years, because that's why we're here today. So this is very serious and materi

Thank you. And I've been waiting with bated breath for, for, after your first proposal, Councilmember Kasima. I've been excited to hear your second.

Well, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Actually, I have an amendment to propose and it will be the subject. I just look at Councilmember Smokal has not commented, I think, on the underlying proposal that we have here. If she wants to go before me, before I propose that amendment,

With your discretion. I should have called on you first, Councilmember Smolko. My apologies. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Thanks, everybody. I appreciate also the amount of time in engineering design thinking as a STEM teacher. I love that, that everybody out here has done and my fellow council members have done. I'm hearing a lot of good ideas tonight, but I'm also hearing us start to become traffic engineers, and we are not. My skin also crawls at the us versus them Conversation, neighbors versus students, or the school district versus the city, that makes me uncomfortable, and I would love for us to get beyond that quickly. Everyone here wants students to be safe, and I think everyone also recognizes that the

Okay. Councilmember Kasten. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would like to propose an amendment regarding the Puyallup High School Good Neighbor Action Plan. I think that it has the bones of a very good plan. However, I think we need to put into this proposal that the city would receive an annual report. We receive a report. It doesn't have to be in person, but if we have to, if we ask them, they would do that. I don't want to do something onerous, but I do want to hold the school district accountable. So my amendment is to provide to the city an annual report on the status of the Good Neighbor Action

Council Member Gillian, are you willing to accept that amendment?

So I guess point of clarification. Certainly. We are going to approve the first reading so that the Puyallup School District has an opportunity to start implementing this to show to the neighbors that they are serious about hearing them. And we're going to come back for, OK, I believe also included is consideration of your map.

Right. Well, the initial amendment, as my understanding is, in the proposal, underlying proposal, this would be an amendment to that.

Yeah, I'm just trying to clarify what we're actually voting on. I'm confused.

Okay. Mr. Mayor? So the amendment, the motion as it stands now is to approve first reading with second reading scheduled for the end of December.

Does that include my amendment, initial amendment?

And that includes an annual report of this action step?

Councilmember Kasten, those two proposals have not been embedded into the motion at this point. OK, so before we go on to an amendment, we should vote on my underlying amendment, correct? if you want to include that as part of the thing.

Well, I'll call the question then. Let's vote on my underlying First Amendment, the one that has the 60-day pilot project. Correct?

Got it. Okay. Thank you. So we, so the, um, the motion on the table now includes, uh, council member Kastem is, uh,

Yes, okay, so we've got the motion on the floor. Is everybody clear on where we are at this point?

No. So to clarify, we are doing a sub-amendment, which would be to include Councilmember Castaneda's map.

It's a single motion that, again, I'll restate it again. The motion on the floor is to approve first reading with a second reading scheduled for December and includes the amendment which you accepted Councilmember Kastema's map, which you accepted.

So Councilmember Gilliam accepted his motion.

Okay, we will vote on Councilmember Kastema's will now call it an amendment So we are Everybody clear on we're voting on the map And there was a second, correct? I Believe there was a second.

If not, I'll second it. I provided that Councilmember Johnson

Okay, so no further discussion, I'm hoping.

Well, before it's passed on the first initial, I still have some discussion. I want some clarity on what we're actually proposing on the First Amendment when we get there. So I'm not done with discussion yet. I'll wait until Council Member Caston has completed that. No, no, I don't want that. But there are some other aspects to the initial motion that I want to come to before we go there on that discussion. So we can do your amendment, but before we vote on the initial...

Okay, so there's more discussions at this point in time. So Deputy Mayor Johnson.

Well, I think... What we're trying to do here is vote. What we did is we put forward the ordinance. And then now we amend it. And I have an amendment, my proposal, that is now I put forward. And now we have to vote on whether it attaches to the original ordinance that was proposed. And that's what we're voting for right now. I think I've given my argument. Yes. OK.

OK, so you don't want to have further discussion of that amendment?

Not on the amendment, but I do want to have a discussion on the motion before we pass that. Thank you.

OK, so we're voting on the amendment. It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Motion passes.

Now, I do have that second amendment. And that was the amendment dealing with the Puyallup High School Good Neighbor Action Plan. And I would like to propose that, if that's appropriate right now. Yes, please proceed. Okay. I would like to propose an amendment that we receive back on an annual base annual basis a report from the school district on the status of the good neighbor action plan as Presented to us this evening this one Second Motion has been moved and seconded any discussion?

I'm going to delete everybody's name off here so that I can see if anybody needs to discuss. So seeing no discussion, then I'll take the vote. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. OK, now queue back up again. Deputy Mayor Johnson.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'd like to, I don't want to offer a third amendment, but maybe kind of a council member, gentleman and gentlelady acknowledgment. I did hear a few of my colleagues say that in council member Castamore's amendment that we were going to look at that and have traffic engineers look at that. I also heard several of you say that my map could be included as possible discussion as part of that. Could that be expanded to that or do I need to make another amendment to include that as well or can that be by default as additional studies are happening that they'll look at this docu

Well, I can make a third amendment and ask that to be included in the continued discussion and evaluation, but if it's understood that they're going to view that in addition as kind of part of Councilor Acasima's overview of mapping, I don't need a formal discussion. I just want to make sure the staff has a chance to look at it as well as the school.

Okay. We'll carry that understanding forward.

Is everyone comfortable to include that understanding without a formal amendment? I need to make a formal amendment to put it on the record.

I just kind of wonder if we're overcomplicating things for the Puyallup School District. This is something they need to prove to the community that they can be good neighbors. So we need to give them time to do that. And they already have a lot of work poured into the map. It's been over a year, almost two. So I'm just curious if we're overcomplicating things. I want the students to be safe, and I want the community around it to be safe. And I just wonder if we're overcomplicating things.

Okay, I can continue to discuss that. So thank you for that clarity. If it does, if, okay, let's just back up. If in fact a re-look at this includes further vacation and that starts the process over, but we get it right the second time, it's worth the extra weight. If, in fact, closing just the one street and we don't add any more closures to that impacts 8th Street, then all the mitigation you want is not going to work. So I would like to say, could it be possible if, in fact, there were some studies done that show that some extra vacation would mitigate any negative impact on residential str

If I may. I was asking staff. I'll weigh in here. I think that starting a new process is going to recalibrate and we're looking years down the road to implement this. And I don't think that that's something that we want to entertain because of the thing. So I'm hoping that we don't see fit to consider that at this time. I will defer to my colleagues on that.

I'd rather get it right than look at extra time if, in fact, it's proven that extra closure need to happen to mitigate and protect the neighborhood to the west. But that being said, I do want to put that aside for now, and we'll let the process play that out. I do want to understand, is this motion, does that include the city yielding the normal valuation of $375,000 donation back to the school? We need to clarify that, because I'm assuming that is?

Right, so we're basically giving $375,000 to the school for mitigation improvements. I remember bringing that up publicly, and part of the contingency, I brought that up. Initially, the school wanted to do two street closures, which would equal to about three-quarters of a million. And I'm the one that offered, say, hey, listen, I'll be happy for the city to entertain waiving those 375 twice, contingently close both streets on 7th, as you originally proposed. Now it's come back, and they don't want to close 2nd Street, and so now they're asking for the 375. That wasn't what I proposed in terms

Okay, seeing no further comments, I'd like to... Councilmember King, I'm hoping you're calling the question.

I will shortly after my question to my colleagues. as it was noted, the $375,000 that the school district would be paying, quote unquote, for the vacation of 7th Street, only to then utilize those funds to coordinate construction of said curb and gutter and bulb outs and reconstruction of 8th Street and using a portion of those funds for that construction. The city essentially is giving the farm away. I just want to make sure the council is all on board with that and I don't believe that was ever really discussed in the initial discussions of that. I for one I'm not sure if I'm okay with that,

I'm willing to weigh in on that. I think the actions we're taking with vacating 7th Street is having a serious negative impact on our on some of our community and I am in favor of taking the 375,000 mitigation funds and applying it to mitigate some of the traffic impacts for the neighborhood. Council Member Smolko.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and I appreciate my fellow council member King bringing it up because I too has kind of been noodling on that this whole time. I'd like to interrogate the word equivalent in option one that would have us waive the $375,000 in compensation because we're saying the public will receive equivalent value through the 8th Street improvements. So then I just want to make sure, as Councilmember King mentioned, that we're considering that in our weight. I don't know that I would agree with Mayor Whitting about that being a gift. I think we have to ensure that there is truly equival

Councilmember Gilliam Thank You mr. Mayor in the school district presentation they did show the pricing of what it would cost to mitigate and Equivalency is not accurate because they're doing above and beyond so we are Offering and I believe it was in the first reading when we said hey, we're gonna pass this option that That 375 would be part of Their what was it? I believe it's like one point something million. I'm trying to look for it in the presentation here. But I'm in full support of supporting the school district in doing what they need to do to improve the quality of the residents arou

Thank you. The reason I bring that up is simply because we don't trade similar favors, if you will, to other builders in our community. We don't do that for mitigating traffic impact fees or anything like that in such a way to trade that out. And so my question is, why are we allowing that with the school district respectfully? That's the only question I have. And I'm just looking for some answers regarding that. So I'm not saying I'm for it. I'm not saying I'm against it. I'm just wanting to kind of get some clarity as to why we are doing it for the school district and where we don't allow or

I'd Just like to say that we want to take good care of about 1,800 of our residents. Maybe it's too simple an answer. Councilmember Gillian.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I can think of the AOB lot where we did sell property for $1 so they could build apartments for growth of our community. I can think of... how they're doing improvements for the street so that the senior citizens can park. I can think of, it's not an equal swap, but it is improvement for the community. And for us to be a good partner with the school district and to be a good partner with our residents, I don't see how this would be harmful in any way. So I hope that that puts your mind at rest, Councilmember King. And I genuinely hope that we can move tonight forward so t

I'm going to pause here. Second, City Manager.

I'm not gonna get into this I'm not adding to the sale conversation right now. But I do want to use that as an example of what I said earlier, that I really do feel as though council should consider with staff and the school district and neighbors, the community at large, on having a special meeting dedicated to this. I mean, we're getting real into the weeds. It's almost a quarter to 10. We still have students here. Most folks in here are professionals. You've been hanging tough with us since 630. And I just think getting to the later hour in the evening, I'm trying to be thoughtful of everyo

Sorry about that. I just want to thank everyone on the council for allowing that conversation to exist regarding the $375. And I appreciate everyone that came out tonight. And hopefully I'm doing everyone a favor by saying I call the question.

I appreciate your calling the question and I also appreciate your asking the question on the $375,000 because it really did get lost in the weeds a little bit. So the question has been called. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Motion carries. We have a first reading. Thank you all for bearing with us through our difficult conversations. We will now move on to item 5A. Those of you that have come about the street vacation, if you feel like you'd like to leave now, you're allowed to leave. We'll give you a moment. It's been fun all. OK. Item 5A, first reading of an ordinance amending Puya

Okay. I'm seeing people queuing up on this. I was hoping that this would move fairly quickly. And given the hour, do we... want to consider postponing the full consideration of this to a later date? Or do we think we can get through it quickly?

OK. Councilmember Kastema. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So you're not going to eliminate the Architectural Design Review Committee, correct?

Would they come forward with recommendations as to what we should adopt as a city?

I would want a provision that requires that. In other words, I understand you don't want them making every decision. And there's been many delays associated with that. But they're there for a reason. And their expertise, we need to at least consult them. Well, I would want that kind of provision that you shall consult with. Is that already like prima facie? So you already do that?

OK, you understand the gist of what I'm saying, right? Correct, yes. OK, that's what I want.

To keep the night young, I would like to move approval.

Second. Move to second. Council Member Adler.

Thank you. This is brief. I don't have a problem with this because I recognize the delays. But I just have to make the observation that this is the second time that we've had a board or commission come before us and have concerns about quorum or ability to have folks make the meetings or stay consistent, which really challenges the work of said board commission. So I just have to say that for staff, I hope that we're thinking about ways to continue trying to engage those that are prescriptive for our boards or community resident involvement at large. It's a concerning trend. mainly outside of

Just a question. Do we have an attendance requirement for these boards and commissions?

And are people missing three consecutive?

OK. We might want to consider tightening those up, but that's not a topic for this evening. OK. So the motion has been moved and seconded. All those in favor? Motion carries. We'll move on to our city manager's report.

Council Member Kastemann. I will pass. Thank you. Council Member Gillian.

I'm just going to do one shout out, and that is to our Deputy Chief Greg Massey is retiring next week, so his party's next week. If you know the man, he's done incredible work for the city of Puyallup and with the team with our Puyallup Police Department. So give him a shout out, send him a message, come to the party. It's City Hall, 4 p.m. here. Thank you. Please forgive me. Thank you. Public Safety Building, 4 p.m. next Tuesday. Be there or be square.

keep it brief I get to leave tomorrow for Tulsa to talk about you guys a little bit don't worry I won't name any names but I get to give a TED talk on Friday so I leave tomorrow and I'm going down there to give a speech called in the room where it happens encouraging educators to run for office so interesting councilmember Adler

Thank you. I'll just be brief and, again, give my gratitude to those who came tonight for the public hearing and stuck with us until the late hour. In particular, our students for being so poised, so well-spoken, and very engaged. Thanks.

Thank you, Mayor. I want to utilize my council comments to not reopen an item, but just for a clarifying question to city attorney or city staff. I want to know if I made a mistake in suggesting as an option to utilize that Sound Transit open lot if that was a subject matter that we could not entertain or have a discussion with the impression that I got from body language but maybe misread it was that was kind of a foolish question on my end and I want to make sure if it was that I stand corrected on that.

So I apologize for that. So I want to clarify, that is a viable option if the city or school want to go into negotiation to discuss possibly use of that?

I just want to make sure it's viable. If I was trying to suggest something that wasn't doable, I want to stand corrected on that. But if it's not, I want to clarify that to make sure it's a viable option. And so thank you for clarifying that question. I want to make sure I'm accurate in my recommendations really an elected official. I'm not a professional, right? So we're trying to figure things out as residents of our city. And I'll utilize that. Sometimes my ignorance is there, but we try to do the best we can to find solutions. I do want to just state, I am a little bit disappointed in, you

Thank you. And so the only thing I'd like to mention tonight is we're coming up on budget session. And as you all know, we have the opportunity to present some council member initiatives during that process. And I would ask that my colleagues submit those a couple of weeks in advance of our budget session so that staff has a chance to look at them and evaluate them and comment on them. So that's my request. And with that, meeting adjourned.