Town Commission - workshop

It is six o'clock. It is September 9th. We are here for a town commission workshop on the budget. If town clerk Mr. Jones could please call the roll.

Okay. We will stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance. We will have a moment of silence and then I will read the civility pledge and then we will get down to business. I will read the civility pledge. The town commission and the staff of the town of Melbourne Beach pledge to conduct all public discourse in a civil manner. The mayor and all members of the commission will treat one another with courtesy and respect and ask the public to do the same towards the commission, each other, and towards staff. We will be respectful of one another even when we disagree. We will direct all comments toward

Okay. It is a little strange, though, because normally public comment, it's when we're going to vote, but budget, we don't. So it's a weird gap in our rule. But if there's no objection from the commission, then that's what we will do. And we'll be able to have public comment as well live. So see no objection that we will do that.

I will read them, though. I think that's what the. Go ahead.

Any other public comment? seeing none we will close public comment and i will turn it over to the town manager to present the budget item um really housekeeping though we did get um so there's the document that's online that's the packet and then we got last night um an additional yeah so i think it's a revised budget message so um there is and it may be referenced uh a revised budget message that is 16 pages and that will be as as we have done since i've we will supplement um online when the clerk is able to hopefully shortly that's correct there is also i provided a little memo it's just um

and whether under our existing policies and procedures, there's some provisions in chapter six and chapter nine that talk about extra compensation, and there is a state statute, I guess, where there's some issues. I believe that we have to have a written policy on this under the statute, and that under our current handbook, policies and procedures, the sort of scenario of what is happening may not be allowed, but that, Policy and procedure can be amended. It's not even a resolution. I mean, but although we could amend it by resolution, but Because the way that those are currently worded they i

but is that phase one? Because I remember understanding from the original, because this had started right before I was even mayor, but then, and talking to the former clerk, that what they originally had was, it was basically three phases of scanning that were contemplated. Phase one was like sort of all the old minutes, you know, packets, these old, you know, sort of records, because, you know, it goes back to whenever, but minutes, so even minutes in the 70s or 80s or whatever. There was phase one. Phase two was the things that you're talking about, building department records, like all of t

But they are related. MCCI, they're all like, they're subsidiaries of each other.

Okay, so the clerk is still handling parts of this. Yes, the clerk is still. Okay, that was not clear.

Well, I'm glad you got that opened up. Yeah. Yeah. So it could have been. Yeah.

Ah, okay. So that does make a bit more sense then.

increase of duties and salary it's sort of a specific project based um and then whenever that is done like it would go back to some normal you know what we don't want to do is never define it and have it be indefinite because it's quite a bump up um and under under i think under the law you can do something like this but you have to have a written scope and definition and it cannot exceed six months And then you can have it go a second six months, like basically on the manager approval, but you do have to have some written, and it would require some modification of our existing policies and pr

But the project part of it is, because what I understand, I was looking at the book, it looks like there was two different amounts. There's like a, basically a position bump up. She's not just going to be the office sort of clerk. It's more of an executive assistant. um that there's a bump up related to that that's sort of indefinite uh because it's yeah and then there is a project sort of management but i could be wrong so tell me that that's also just related to that that would not be indefinite that that's under the duties of what she's going to be doing as my executive assistant oh so that

So then question, because that does change some of this then. Okay. Because I did not clearly, I misapprehended that. So you gave me the office clerk and then the town clerk position descriptions. Yes. is there a pre-approved position description with duties and base salary for this position that you are basically bumping her up to if not we we would need to have that written up okay um we have a draft of it okay yeah jenny and i are just parsing that out okay because that covers the policy then that if there's a written description then okay and i don't have to worry about some of the other b

Sure. So the comment on the updated budget message. So thank you for meeting with me. And the items that we discussed and were in there are captured in there now. So I'm satisfied with that at this point.

So the package that we got for the budget for tonight to 4.6 point that is the same package that we got but last week, that's the same, it's the same budget, same numbers, okay. All right. All right, so for, in addition to the updates we've made in the budget message there, the other part of this, the actual budget aspect of it that I'm interested in seeing is that, so a large part of how A large part of how the 4.6 budget came about is that we're really not funding stormwater. We're funding it at a much less level, right? So we're really not significantly funding stormwater. So that's how...

I'd be in favor of that. Anybody else want to speak or opine?

Oh, go ahead. Yeah, just speak freely, Vice Mayor.

Thank you so much. It's a neat idea, and it's kind of like a neat safety policy if the bond didn't go through. Just to educate me, the funds from the parking have certain restrictions on them. Can we go over what those are?

Are you asking me, or who are you asking?

I'm not, I'm not. I'M NOT SITTING WITH YOU, SO I CAN'T REALLY LOOK YOU EYE TO EYE, BUT... ALL RIGHT, YEAH, SO...

I'D LOVE TO MAYBE... THE FINANCE, SHE'S READY TO SPEAK TO EXPLAIN. GO AHEAD.

And they, was that a question that you would pose to them? Yes, and it's a response they gave me. And you got a good written response. Okay, perfect. Thank you.

Yeah. Well, I do think stormwater, though, benefits the I mean, because, you know, if that area floods, I mean, you know, I mean, it might be that we would say that that has to be if the money is going into stormwater, then we might need to allocate it to stormwater in the vicinity. I don't know, but. But I do think stormwater, I mean, we're such a small, 1.4 square miles, when we have a huge rain event and things flood, it does, I mean, it's the whole area, but I don't know.

well i do think that like so when you have a bond you it is very restricted there's like a certain set of rules where things are really restricted or when you have an assessment that goes against property itself so like if we have the stormwater assessment that's that does have to be restricted if we did but that wasn't what i was talking about i know but but this is sort of fees these aren't assessed against land it's basically just a fee to be able to park on an area so it is a BIT DIFFERENT FROM ALL OF THE RESTRICTED DIFFERENT LEVELS OR TYPES OF RESTRICTED FUNDS, WHICH I KNOW THE FINANCE MA

would love to read that the email that you had if um just to be able to understand it but i do think that somebody said that they checked some of the other cities coco india atlantic that have parking that they do use a portion of their money specific to that area and then they do roll it over so there's a bunch of other cities that do similar but i mean i i definitely think that we would need to have at least a we like a portion of it that would go to that area but

So they said that it had to be tied to it, but they also sort of said, well, we're not going to look behind the commission's decision, essentially.

Well, I mean, I know like, even with the assessment, the fire assessment, if we eventually do a fire assessment. So there are some things that like that are in our fire department, but that are not. but you have to really like segregate those. So like the Marine Rescue Unit would not we wouldn't be able to use fire assessment money for the Marine Rescue Unit, but that would be something where we could say, OK, we'll be able to segregate that out and we would say a portion of parking funds can go to fund that, whereas the fire assessment goes to fund all the things you're allowed to with fire.

So I'm looking at an email that was provided to me when I was asking about this earlier here. And this is an email from an individual at the, uh, the state Florida department of, uh, state, um, to, uh, the town manager. And it says per our conversation and upon review of the lease agreement, there are no conditions in the lease that prohibit or require any funds generated by using the land be used in any particular manner.

Okay, so no conditions. That's pretty clear.

Could you just provide those? Of course, yeah.

Okay, is there more discussion or questions on that? I mean, I think it's really... Go ahead.

Hey, thank you so much. So, you know, I think it's always good to have a backup plan. I think Commissioner Reed's thinking ahead, you know, if we don't vote for that bond, we're going to be in a lurch for stormwater. We're also gonna be an alert if the voters vote out property tax. That's another good reason why we should not go back to the rollback rate and keep our millage the same, because we've gotta be prepared that something might go wrong in the future. So covering our bases, I think is a big responsibility for why we're here, why we're doing this and why we're having this discussion. S

I have a question. Were you able, you had said last week that you would get it this week, you didn't know when, but were you able to get the, there's two different, you have them or whatever, they get updated, but the $500 or more sort of capital items inventory and then the $5,000 or more?

But do you think you'll be able to get them by Friday? You said this week. I'm hoping. Okay. Because I understand they're just things that are in the system that get printed out.

You and I had met, I think, August 16th. I requested it then, and you had told her to get it, and then I've requested it several times. And then last week she said she would get it this week. But now it sounds like I won't get it this week either.

As I understand, it literally exists and it just needs to be printed. Perhaps the reason why... there's pushback to printing it is because it exists, but it's not been updated in a while, and so it's stale? No, it's not that.

And nobody could just find that document and print it?

but we i mean we've had this bsna for a while but it's never been used before for the budget function going forward next year it's going to be is what i've been told we've been always using these sort of excel and so that's sort of the the problem historically why it's not it's not the commission's fault it's more of just the antiquated use of Historically, the Excel and not the BS&A budget software that we have and pay for but haven't utilized in the past and are getting trained to utilize going forward next year, correct? Correct. Yeah, so I mean, that's not our fault. I'm not trying to plac

for the Commission not including other boards and J lack has been here through most of it oh yes yes mm-hmm my other just sort of standing complaint though is also going to be that none of these have the mandatory minimum requirements that are code chapter 15, section 15 require and that the town attorney did opine orally that are required, but still, I don't know if the final document's gonna have these required columns or not, but.

No, they don't. I mean, you literally read, there's nothing that, there's this very specific language in section 15 and well i mean i don't know what i don't know what else i mean is it just the names of the columns that yeah i mean for one it's because the uh the actual is different from the odd the later audited so the fiscal year 25 is the last audited budget and it says that you have to have the so it's essentially when they go through because they made they in the budget there was i think there was like maybe 200 000 of things that had to be reconciled and changed like It's not what you a

No, no, no, it's a set of language, it's language. The manager has it and it's, it's in your, it's in our town code, it's section 15 . and it's the mandatory minimum requirements, and it says, let's see, and it's for proposed revenue and expenditures, it requires, I mean, it's like an entire page, because there's A, B, and different ones apply to different ones, so read the memo that I provided. It's got for each, like for expenditures, it's supposed to have this, and it tells you which section, whether it's C or D,

Yeah, because here's the thing. If that is what they actually are, great. I mean I just what I want is I want to track the language of the requirement because later on you know somebody you could say oh well that's not what it actually is but if we certify we track the language and you say yes that is what it is then you know somebody can't later say oh well that's you know it we didn't we didn't do that it says actual it doesn't say that language that's not what it is like track the language and then I'm good on the columns so it's just the column names that yeah make the yeah track the leg s

I gave you that example. It's like, here's what the column, here's what they would look like, and here's what they would be.

In parallel columns opposite the several items of proposed expenditures, there's different language for revenue or for expenditures, but this one is 15-4D. In parallel columns opposite the several items of proposed expenditures, there shall be placed an amount of each line item in the approved budget of the previous fiscal year, the amount, then it has common, so that's one, that's one column. So it's about parallel columns. Then column two, the amount of each item actually expended during such year to the time of preparing the budget, that's parallel column number two, plus estimated expendit

I mean, and truthfully, next year on the budget, there's gonna have to be like a lot more columns and it will be mandatory by the state. So it's gonna have to sort of change anyway to be expansive because you'll have to have four years back. so this is already going to have to change next year anyway but i i and i would suggest that you guys can change by ordinance that provision to be like here's the four here's the four columns under town code that you have to have or whatever so it's clear okay are we prepared to have public comment um i don't know i mean anybody comment madam mayor

If the staff is able to make those changes that you recommended, would you be in support of this budget and vote for it?

I mean, no, I haven't. I've been waiting for these things that I was told last. It was like, okay, we'll get them to you this week. And now I'm being told, you know. So, no, I mean, I think that we could cut taxes. I actually went online just because I was curious. You know, these cow she vets and different things, they actually can give you a fairly – They're running that, like, there's less than 25% chance that the property tax amendment's going to pass. They think it's not going to pass. So, you know, I mean, and again, we still have the FEMA money. I feel like we need to figure that out. I

This is money that we spent that is obligated that we should be getting back. Which we do not have, but. So no, I mean, I, you know, I would vote.

we're basically negotiating this budget and you you started the conversation saying you weren't going to vote for a budget i'm still in i'm still entitled to ask for information i mean like to ask that the budget itself comply with the mandatory minimum requirements of our town chart code i mean like even if i'm you know i mean how can i even say what i'm going to vote for if

Keep getting, you know, getting wouldn't. And I was just thinking if they made all these changes that you're requesting,

it might change your mind but it sounds like it's not what i have always said was get the budget in the proper format so we can actually look at the things you know like we budgeted but what did we actually spend you know and like because then we get a clear picture and that's the whole point of the budget process is for the public and for us to actually forecast and you know the entirety of the time i've been on this commission we've never gotten budget information that was forthcoming it's always been a fight but that's how do you forecast without it so if we got more information yeah I mean

SO I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO THE FUND 172. SO WE APPARENTLY HAVE CONFLICTING DIRECTION HERE. WE HAVE EMAILS THAT SAY DIFFERENT THINGS. I'D LIKE TO SEE US GO BACK AND GET AN UPDATED OPINION ON THAT. AND AS WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO ESTABLISH OUR POLICIES FOR THE SPECIAL FUNDS, WE WOULD NEED TO KNOW THAT IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH THE POLICY. SO I THOUGHT I HAD THAT EMAIL YOU TALKED ABOUT. I THOUGHT I HAD ALL THE INFORMATION. THIS IS RELATED TO THIS. TO ME, WE HAVE A CONFLICT OF FEEDBACK FROM THE STATE ON THAT.

If you have it, the updated one, could you read it, Ms. Smith, and then you'll provide that to us or provide it in the packet for whenever this comes back up? Yeah. For the public, too. That way they don't have to make a public records request for this email we keep talking about.

While she's looking for that, I have a very basic question. I think you probably answer it. I'm almost embarrassed it's kind of basic. So I always notice when we do the revenue, there's always this like 97%. And I assume it's because you have to budget for your revenue, and probably no city collects 100% of their, there's always some. Is 97, is that sort of like a standard number that most cities pick? Is there, does that?

Okay, so do you know what generally is our, I mean, is it usually around 97, or is it 98, 99 sometimes? I mean, I imagine in comparison to some other cities, ours is probably pretty high, like, but do you have any idea i could go back and show you sometimes we get we get more than 100 yeah it just depends yeah do you happen to know just with last year in terms of what we budgeted because it's always 97 i had a resident ask me this and i was like honestly i i don't know i think it's something every city does but um do you happen to know what last year did we collect 97 because it does seem like

Because we would generally only budget for 97% of the revenue, but if consistently we do receive 98, 99, 100% of it, even though we don't budget for it because you never know, but it is kind of a padded amount that we... Right, but we can't... I know, we can't... You can't budget 100%. But in our minds, we could at least consider that. I mean, it's almost...

So while she's trying to find an email, do you want to do the public comment?

Yeah, go ahead. We'll open it up to public comment.

Will you have, do you have those if you'll pass them up and I'll read them?

Yeah, I feel like we give precedence to the people that are in the audience.

I take issue to you acting like I've done something improper. You might want to look back at when you voted on short-term rentals, and I'm pretty sure you did not disclose your conflict. I don't think we debate with public comment. No, no, no, your comment is over, ma'am.

For what it's worth, after last week, because I was worried about the different votes and stuff, I talked to the town attorney. He was correct on the budget vote requirement. And so just so that everybody knows, you have to pass the final millage first before you pass the final budget. And there are two separate votes. And the final millage vote, if you go anything over rollback, it requires four votes. But if that passes, but it's the second vote, so if that passes at 4.6 with the required four votes, the very next vote Even it does not require four votes. So potentially Commissioner Reid I m

I mean, I had a nice meeting with Mrs. Stark, and there was a bunch of stuff that we talked about, and there was one, a couple ideas that she had said, yeah, that's a good idea, and she had mentioned she would talk to you, but I do hope that an idea for the fire department that I think that would be great to do, because we're gonna be having some fire assessment study, if the property tax amendment passes, because I think a lot of things, you know, we'll know in November, right? I would suggest that it would be a great thing for the town to use the Riverside Stopside Survey as an informal way

I'D LIKE TO HEAR THE ATTORNEY'S READ ON THAT VERBIAGE.

I'M GOING TO READ THESE PUBLIC COMMENTS. DON'T FORGET. THIS IS FROM BRUCE PICKETT. SENT WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 9, 930. PLEASE READ THIS AT THE COMMISSION MEETING. Bruce Pickett, 1501 Oak Street. We are currently out of town with a family emergency but are able to watch the meetings online. I was encouraged while watching last week's meeting to see that Commissioner Reed seemed amenable to the 4.6 millage rate with some adjustments. I was also encouraged that the other commissioners were accepting of his suggestions. Compromise can be a good thing. I encourage, request, even implore the commissio

There was an issue once in the past, but yeah. All right. Any other public comment? Seeing none, is there any other discussion?

Yes. The group of people that come up and attacked me in the past for, and I mean, despite the fact that I'm the fourth vote last year that got the funding, which was a huge compromise, but still I get attacked. But I mean, I think there's people that would like a tax cut, but they see how people get attacked on certain things. So they don't, that's really inappropriate.

All right, motion to adjourn. Second, all in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed? That carries 4-0.

That was a 5-0 to adjourn. I apologize. Because the vice mayor is present with us. He was sick and didn't want to get us sick, so he's on teams. So that was a 5-0 vote. I know I said 4-0.