Board of Supervisors - Regular Meeting

Is there a motion? No questions at this time, Mr. Chair. It's a public hearing, so.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Hawks, thank you for being here. We appreciate your time. It's good to see the applicant as well. Thanks, everybody, for being here. Just a little context. I know that there's been a request for a deferral. I would obviously support that deferral. I want to address not only the speaker's concerns, but provide an update for... really everyone not only the applicant but for the business owner that was here but for everybody else that mr. Phelps and I planning Commissioner spoken with one the applicant and mr. Phelps and I have met since since some some of these concerns

Yeah, I do have a couple. So the previous request, I think this was this last year or was this earlier this year?

Last year. Right in December. What was the previous request was what that we that we denied?

All right. And it started, I don't know if you can remember, I think it started like 150 or something like that. Yes, sir. And so we worked, well, not we, but it was worked down to about 95. Yes, sir. And we denied it. And then there was another case not tied to it, but came at about the same time. Can you remember anything about that case?

So, but we denied that too. Yes, sir. And one of the things that I remember out of the conversation was some of this land was A1. So we knew that the possibility of the developer coming back and wanting to develop some of it as A1 was real. is permitted, I guess. So what's the, how many units could we get on the A1 now?

If you just look at what is A1 already, it's 26 acres. I think we did a rough estimation of somewhere between 30 and 40 lots. For the A1 and if the C1 became A1.

So what's the... So applicant, get ready because I'm going to ask you how many units could be put on the A1 alone, not considering the C1. Can you or Ben or somebody tell me about the I guess one of the things that staff has brought to my attention is the line that was drawn for C-1. There's some story or history behind that line. And I think staff believes that that line, there is not documentation. I mean, it cannot be. There is some question about its validity as a true line. drawing for conservation?

Okay. All right. I think that's all the questions I have for staff.

and so the first person that signed up can we hear from the generally don't we hear from the applicant first before we hear can we hear from you if you like to sir yeah yeah let's hear from the applicant first and then we'll hear from the public Mr.

So I think when we met, we talked. You said the front looks like it perks, the back doesn't. And so the A1 side of it, let's say, take the C1 out of consideration. How many units do you think you'll get on the A1?

Andy, I don't know if you want to try to answer any of those questions.

Terrell, can you come on up? I've got a question to ask you. The access to the property, is it Washington Street exclusively?

All right. Thank you. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Sorry, just making sure I don't have to call you back up. All right. Thank you. Terrell, the continued statements about the floodplain, can you talk to that? Andy just mentioned you as it relates to DPW.

Right. So if we're rezoned and it becomes A1, then it comes back to you for plan of development, and then you follow the FEMA rules about what can be – developed on and what can't based upon this piece. Yeah. You're saying right now what you've seen, you're saying a lot of it is not on. Based on the current flood maps, yeah, it's not in the. So when you say a lot, you mean what, 75%?

All right. PFAS in the well water. No, you're not doing that. It's Bentley. Bentley, can you come up real quick? And I'm sorry, guys. I just want to make sure I ask all the questions before we go to vote. Have you found PFAS, Bentley, anywhere close to this particular area, if you can remember? And whales, have you even tested whales in this particular community that you?

Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, Steve. Mr. Yob, can you come down real quick and talk about Swamp Pink? So the last I heard, we had some Swamp Pink, if I can remember, Mr. Man, it was at the White Oak Tech Park. And if I can remember, I thought if an area was designated to have Swamp Pink, you couldn't even develop one. Does that sound right?

Okay, so would that type of permitting involved in this type of plan of development that you know of?

But my point is how do we, you know what I'm saying, like guess my point is how do we know that um maybe this is for ben i don't know yeah let me let me talk to ben for a second i'm sorry thanks steve i appreciate that yes sir so how confident are we before i don't want to have to defer this but i might have to if i'm not sure

All right. So, all right. Andy, I don't want to do this because I want to move forward with this case, whether I'm agreeing with it or not. but I'm going to have to defer. Now let me say this because I want to know for sure. Let me say this respectfully to the community, to those of you who I've been out to talk to, those of you who are online, respectfully. When we heard this case last year, early this year, we were not talking about well waters as the primary reason. We were talking about density. We did not want to add that level of density in the community, 200 new neighbors. We didn't wan

All right. I'm sure you didn't think that you would have been called up this many times. No, sir. I apologize. But get your exercise.

I move and thank everyone for your answering questions, community members for coming out. So, Mr. Newby, I want to do what I did before previously because I don't want to do this whole public hearing all over again. So how do I do this? I want to defer it for decision only. So I just say that?

And that means what? For the sake of the community?

Yes, sir. Okay. All right. Mr. Chair, I move that REZ 2026-100545, Beckley Bluford Investment LLC be deferred to the October 13th, 2026 meeting at the request of the applicant, I mean, at the request of the board for decision only.

Just talk through some of the proffers. First of all, I want to thank the owner for the owner police planning for the work that they put in to come into an agreement on trying to make this venue as safe as possible. So was something added today or in the past week? I know.

Okay, good. And the owner has security there when they have events?

And no open beverages going in or coming out?

Yeah, I think that's something that the operator is committed to as well. Okay. I think that's it, so I don't have anything else. Unless the owner wants to say something before we go to the public hearing part, if that's okay.

You don't have to, but just giving you the opportunity since you came all the way here from the other side of town.

All right, so real quick, I just have one question for you. And 30 seconds. So you have the event space, but you also have what else? What else do you do that is really creative for the community?

Mr. Chair, I move that we follow the recommendation of the Planning Commission and approve PUP 2026100750, Whitehead and, what is this, Cheek? Chalker. Chalker. Properties, LLC, with the recommended conditions.

Read what you said. Just read what you said.

I read it and I had to check. I was checking all the other ones tonight. I haven't seen that before.

That is... I respect that. I respect that. That's your way of saying, yeah, we don't necessarily support it, but we're not really against it.

I'll make sure I let Joe know when you came back how masterfully you explained that just now. That was masterful. Number 16, can you give me that in layman's terms? What does 16 mean?

So real quick, what's the history? So yeah, explain to me like, How did we get here? Because I feel like we're being very kind. We're being very kind. This was a business that was operating for a while without us really knowing that they were there operating as a business, right?

And we went out and issued a notice when In early 2021. And that came from?

Yes, yes, sir. Do you have any of the before and after pictures?

Oh, the, this piece. All right, so the one, go back to that one. So the picture on my left, that was from when? That was in 2020, Mr. Nelson. And the picture on my right is from when?

So you don't have any, so do you have any trucks back beyond, what are those, trees in the middle?

Right, so is anything on the back part of the property? All right, so you letting the grass grow back there, or what?

So right now, if I go back there, it's all grass.

What's the highest amount of trucks you have back there?

All right, so the plan to clean up, I'm assuming you're in that process of connecting the sewer and water, cleaning up, et cetera. Is that something that you, can you actually do that? You know what I'm saying? Yes. I mean, if we give permission, will you be able to do what is being asked of you? Everything that's in the proffers, I would do everything. All right, so I was feeling different because I hadn't talked to you. I was feeling different about this before you got up with my guy right there. So I feel better because you're going to make sure that we do what we need to do.

All right. Well, I don't have any questions.

All right. Invite me over one day so I can see what you do. All right. I move that we follow recommendation of the planning commission and approve RZ 2025-102340-DRB3 truck and LLC with the revised proffers dated September 8th, 2026.

I have a couple. I'd like the record to reflect I've been silent all meeting, saving up my time for this issue. All right, so I've looked at the proposed ordinance, kind of compared it to the state statute, and I note, you know, one, Virginia Code 46.2-882.1 does, it's fairly broad. It's broader than what we're proposing here, specifically that that particular statute allows multiple places where these cameras can be, be implemented, including highway work zones, high-risk intersections, pedestrian crossings to monitor for jaywalking, as well as stop sign violations. So relatively speaking, an

That's correct. And the scope of this is speeding in school zones very narrowly. Now, this does not expand the definition of a school crossing zone in any way. And it's, to be fair, the code definition of a school crossing zone is fairly ambiguous. It doesn't say like a meters or distance or anything. It's basically any area where it's necessary to protect children going to and from school.

Okay. Would it be consistent with existing school crossing zones? Okay. I didn't see in here where the hours of ticketing would take place.

Would it generally be an hour before, an hour after, or two hours before, two hours after? It would be tied only to school start and end?

So basically what's in place now as far as when the lights are flashing, would be consistent with the hours that these cameras would be operational?

Can I add one point? So, I was at a football game on Friday, crazy crossing back and forward on Airport Drive, thousands of people there, considerations for high impact times around schools too. I'm just throwing that out there. That may be contrary to what my colleague is saying, but I was scared for people crossing after the football game and before the football game on Friday, and it was a sold-out game, so it was thousands of people trying to get across the street to their cars, et cetera. And cars were flying through. It's dimly lit on Airport Drive, so maybe something to consider with su

Okay. And so when school is not operational during summer, things like that, or I guess maybe when summer school is in. So I say that to say this is not going to expand when the school zone lights are flashing just because we're installing these cameras. It's going to be consistent with what has always been the law for additional fines in a school zone?

Ms. Okay. So, I'm trying to make sure I understand the mechanism of how this is going to work. So, camera is installed, a photo was taken, and who was responsible? Would it be somebody from HPD or a vendor? I know we're going to contract or proposing a contract with a vendor for a portion of it. Who actually is responsible for taking it from the photo to a summons?

And when they validate it, they're validating it with what?

Okay. So somebody with the vendor is laying eyes on the photo, checking it with DMV, passing that information on to HPD. Somebody on HPD is laying eyes on it, verifying the photo, verifying the light, checking the DMV registration. Okay. And then a summons is issued, and I believe it said that – a summons has to be issued within 30 days from the violation. Is that right?

Ms. Okay. So there is then a rebuttable presumption that the owner is the person driving. So essentially the photo is taking, the camera is taking a photo of the vehicle. and the plate, and there's a rebuttable presumption that it's the owner of the vehicle through DMV that is the driver. And I say rebuttable because the summons and the letter that the person gets says, here are the ways that you can rebut this presumption. One way is to send an affidavit to the clerk of court saying, not me, here's who it is, and you have to include the name and address. The second way is to show up for the c

All right. So, the statute provides that it doesn't have to be served by the sheriff. The summons can be mailed, and I assume that that would be the practice that is employed. And then there's a court date. If the person no-shows for that court date, they don't get issued a show cause or anything like that, that then causes a second letter to be sent. Is that correct? Now, if that second court date is missed, then I would say kind of one of the heavy-handed portions of this is DMV is then instructed to put a hold on renewing the vehicle registration. Okay.

Okay. Is there some way that me... I don't necessarily pay a whole lot of attention to the mail that comes to my house all the time. Do we have control over whether there's special annotations on the envelope or something that calls people's attention to the envelope to say this is something you need to not just toss?

Yeah, it's actually part of the state statute is that it's specifically said you have to put it on your social media, you have to put it on your website, also including, I think, a link to the vendor. Is this something where there has to be like an RFP to a vendor and a competitive bid process, or how is the vendor selected?

Okay. And so how have we already identified a vendor that is preferred? Okay. none of them is flock, right? So, how do we know with a level of confidence that the vendor that is being selected is a vendor that is trustworthy?

Okay. And so the distinguishing feature of these cameras is that it is all local and in-house. So it is limited strictly to Henrico County Police and the vendor. And the statute actually explicitly bars any of the data from being sold. The data is not open to the public. The data cannot be shared with any other entity, cannot be used for any purposes other than non-traffic purposes. Ms. And it can't be, we're going to use this photo to prove that this person was in this area for some other purpose or anything like that?

Ms. All right. And 60-day purge? So how does I saw that and I thought that I couldn't reconcile that in my mind because if the statute allows 30 days for the vendor to issue the summons But the data can be purged within 21 days. How does that work?

Okay. But in essence, if the vendor has not identified it at 21 days, even though there's nine days left, it's not going to be issued? That's correct. Okay. There is a 30-day grace period from the time the cameras are installed, and that 30-day grace period applies to each specific location. Okay. So the rollout is, I assume, not going to be all at once. I know you've identified certain schools that you plan to place it at.

Okay. I know you've given that information to us. Can you share what schools that are planned to be rolled out first?

Okay. The statute has, you know, kind of a delineation between July 1, 2027, pre and post. And so it states that until from now, from implementation until July 1, 2027, there is a requirement for one sign to notify drivers. And then after July 1, 2027, it's a minimum of two signs, one of which must include a speed display. And I take that to mean a sign that says you're going X amount.

I thought that was a little, no disrespect to my General Assembly folks, but I thought that it would seem to me that you would start out with more signs because after a year, folks probably would already know that it's there. Do we have the ability to start out with the two signs and maybe even the speed display initially?

Okay. Okay. And is the thought that we're going to start with those identified schools, see how it goes with the expectation that it would be most of the schools, if not all of the schools in the county at some point?

Okay. So some schools may be tucked away in neighborhoods such that there really isn't an issue with speeding. Okay. This does not result in any criminal liability, no points on anyone's driving record, anything like that. And again, even if somebody misses the court date, then the sanction is possibly a DMV hold, but not a show cause, not a failure to appear, no snowballing effect of missing this.

and there is a requirement that every year we provide data to the General Assembly, and I think DMV, if I'm not mistaken, of how many have been issued, how much revenue has come in, so forth and so on.

Is there some thought to monitoring that on a yearly basis and seeing, you know, whether this is something that is working, reducing speeds or anything like that?

Got you. I think I understand the process and I'm always trying to make sure that there is a due process element to it. The fine, and I spoke about this in work session too, so the statute by max allows a $100 fine, and so what is being proposed is right at that max. I don't know that I believe that a $50 fine, which I know some neighboring jurisdictions start at, is more... more of a deterrent than a $100 fine. I don't think somebody's going to be saying, well, I'll speed if it's 50, but not if it's 100. But I do think that a difference in that could mean whether somebody is able to pay an im

Agreed, but the difference is in that scenario, you're interacting with a police officer. You know that you're getting the ticket. They know that you're the one driving it. You're checking off the boxes for a lot of assumptions that are being made when it's a photo camera as opposed to an in-person camera. So it's kind of like this trade-off to say we don't have the 100% certainty that we do when it's a police officer issuing a citation when it's a camera. And I think a lot of people, you know, you kind of get that visceral feeling. You get something in the mail where a photo was taken of you,

I have no questions on it. You gave us a fairly extensive briefing in work session about it. To me, all of my colleagues' concerns are valid. I appreciate her expertise in bringing them up. For me, it is simply about what the Chief just said. There's no way, shape, or form I would ever... find myself not supporting a way to keep these kids and families safe, crossing Mill Road, going to Glen Allen Elementary from a neighborhood right across the street. I have a couple of those schools that wouldn't be candidates. Springfield Elementary is one of them, just not a candidate on that back roads. B

I don't have a problem with the fine, personally. It's less than if you get pulled over, and I get that. I like the validation that you've added. I like the fact that it's specific to school zones right now. I do. I am with Mr. Nelson on that. After a football game, I can see the purpose of it, and I would like to work with our schools if we could activate these flashing lights. These folks don't just park in these parking lots. They're walking. These folks on Staples Mill from Glen Allen are walking across Staples Mill back to their homes after football games There's a safe signal crosswalk t

Uh, yeah, I had, I had, I had a lot of around tree said, Mr. 10 minutes of what I said. All the questions I had, she asked.

No, seriously. Seriously, I appreciate your line of questioning and all of my colleagues, everything they said. It's just two things. Anything that we can do to deter speeding. And so I like the $100 because I do think it provides shock value. It may impact somebody, but I guarantee you if somebody get if you get hit with that, you're going to make sure that you slow down next time you are in front of a school. I haven't received a whole lot of don't do this. And I would be shocked if I did get a lot of don't do this. Because one thing I believe most of us want our kids safe. So I'm all for it

Chief, didn't you share some data when we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, a month ago? Didn't you do like a study or something for each school? We did.

Are you looking for the number of violations?

Um, well, I had a specific question in, in, um, and I get it. I appreciate the questions about, um, this, I hear that often about flock. It's, um, uh, and I, and it, it, it is historically real that, um, citations, incarcerations disproportionately impact minority people, um, More than they do non-minority. So that's a fact. But I was, when we did this particular exercise, I was surprised. I think that one of my schools is one of the lowest, wasn't it? If you go and look at the one on Airport Drive.

But you talk about Highland Springs, which is 80% African American. I mean, the community is going through their majority African Americans. And ironically, that particular zone had one of the lowest speeding rates, um, which means that if we were using this system, it would have had the lowest level of accounted speeding violations. Yeah, and that is very much an area highly frequented by African Americans in our community. And I know that was just a test or a trial, but that jumped out at me when we talked about this exercise.

Thank you for all of the information, and thank you for everyone that spoke. I will say this. This is not a discussion about flock, and you all know how passionate I am about the flock conversation, and I hope that not too much time passes before we have that public conversation. But because I care so much about the flock conversation, I do not want it conflated with what this is because it, in fact, tends to harm the actual and legitimate flock conversation in my mind. There are, you know, law enforcement cannot be handicapped in doing its job. I certainly don't believe that. And school pedes

While he's coming up, Mr. Chair, you said two of your mentors was here. Actually, and I didn't even know it, but I've got three members here tonight. So I just want to let you know that... Beasley didn't claim us, but he is a member of Six Mount Zion Baptist Church.

And Reverend Chu and his beautiful wife, Lorraine, are here. So thank you guys for coming out tonight. So you see now that I have another job. So don't tell nobody else.

We had dinner at Lakeside today or from Lakeside today, right? We did.

Justin, could you go into detail on each of the 11 pages, please?