Board of County Commissioners - Regular Meeting

As we always do, we'll begin with a Pledge of Allegiance and a moment of silent reflection. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I hope everybody is doing well today. It is a beautiful Thursday after all, and up first on our agenda as always is Priority Carol and Commissioner Kyler. We will start with you today.

14:06 – 18:30•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Okay, thank you. And I mentioned in closed, and I talked with District 7 engineer yesterday some, and we talked about many topics, but... One of those, and I'll check with CCPS to see where they are with it. I know a Manchester Valley student was hit last year crossing Route 30. And I know there's grants for walks, and that is a pretty rough situation on Route 30. They also have an emergency gate at the back of the school, and I don't know whether they let kids use that or not, but I'm going to check into that. And then the other topic that came up, and I'll get more information on it, but evi

Well said, Commissioner. Thank you. Commissioner Gordon?

Well, thank you. Good morning, Carroll County. I want to bring up first one of the things that I think is on everybody's minds this week, which started Monday, which is back to school. And Carroll County Sheriff's Office was heavily involved with that. We had Deputy Harvey with a video on Facebook. I do truly appreciate all our SROs. I had a great video of him welcoming kids back to school. But Monday started a new school year, and I want to wish all our students, teachers, administrators, and staff a successful and rewarding year ahead. Obviously, it's a great time for our students to learn,

Very well said, Commissioner Gordon. I will add to that, especially the point about the email scam. If you have any doubt whatsoever, don't hesitate to contact this office to verify whether it's real or not. And again, very well said. Commissioner Guerin?

Yeah, thank you. Good morning, Carroll County. Just briefly, previous two comments mentioned the fact that schools started again And anecdotally, I think I've seen my share already of people not driving safely around bus stops. You've got to stop when you're supposed to stop. When you see those flashing lights, just stop. It's not worth it. I've seen unsafe driving recently for some of our road crews. People complaining about having to slow down and stop It's always farming season in Carroll County no matter what time of the year it is and you've got farm equipment on the roads and I've again

Thank you, and it reminded me, the other night I was at a function and ran into an old friend from the Board of Education who used to be our budget director, and Mr. Brillhart, and we were talking about how he was one of the ones that got the cameras on the school buses, and how he had to advocate for years in Annapolis to get the approval to do that. And when they started seeing the statistics, they had a pilot program, and they started seeing the statistics, how many people were running those those lights, they finally showed a picture of a boy that almost got hit because he went around and

Very well said, Commissioner. Thank you very much. And I want to thank all my colleagues, as always, for their hard work and their dedication and involvement in everything going on in the county over the course of the past week. So very briefly, I want to touch upon three quick things. Commissioner Krebs already very capably talked about the Veterans Shuttle, that Veterans Independence Project, in conjunction with Bill Murphy, uh... the cal art foundation uh... bunch of guys from uh... vip including frank valenti jason sidok mike pennington uh... and commissioner gordon and commissioner krebs

All right. And I promise there is a reason why I brought Rich up in the media center. Commissioner Gordon, I believe you have some kind of certificate of recognition. I do.

If we could have Mr. Turner and anyone else that wants to come up forward to the table, please.

You can pull them up if you want, by all means. Did you like that segue? I did like that segue. That was quite a good one.

So obviously all of us know, but I want to just give you a second, if you could, just to give the public that's watching any just general information about what the Community Media Center does, because obviously you all are a huge asset and a wonderful addition to our community. But just to give just some general overview for anybody that really might not be aware of all that you do.

34:09•KKKenneth A. Kiler

And tell them, and everybody should know this, physically, where are you? Because to me, you come in through Westminster career, you know, it's confusing.

Well, as you mentioned, you know, the public has the opportunity to come in and use your equipment and technology to better understand how to create media. I had the honor of seeing that a number of years back with the Boys and Girls Club when they came out, and it was just absolutely exceptional. They got to, you know, one minute they're standing there behind the green screen and they're, you know, swimming with fish. I mean, you name it, you guys can do it. So it's impressive. But then... The one thing I did want to mention that the Community Media Center does quite well also is that you als

Well, thank you very much for coming in. I'll just say very briefly myself, you really do a vital and really important public service for the community. And I think for me, more than anything, you do it in such a professional way. You forget that you're watching a stream from a nonprofit. You might as well be one of the big cable news broadcasters or something. You guys do a phenomenal job. whatever it is you're covering, whatever you're documenting, you are recording history. And I certainly appreciate and respect that and thank you for everything that you do for us.

40:23 – 40:51•KKKenneth A. Kiler

All right. Thank you very much. And you said it, but CMC is one of the jewels of Carroll County. Involved in MABE and now MACO, Carroll County works together better than any other county in the state. And you guys are an example of that. So thank you. And the two behind you, I've never seen you not want to talk. So I like this.

I want to grab a photo. Let's do it. I want to have them come up. Maybe we should stay up. Yeah, we'll stay up here.

41:02•KKKenneth A. Kiler

You need to bring everybody up. Yeah, bring everybody up.

you thank you very much congratulations all of you congratulations thank you very much congratulations congratulations congratulations thank you very much thank you guys thank you congratulations thank you thank you for coming in thank you thank you congratulations so you're the reason they work so well with the neighbors

Now, also speaking about September 11th and emergency preparedness, whether it's man-made or natural, disasters and emergencies are going to happen. And so I believe, Commissioner Guerin, you have a proclamation. I do.

It is Carroll County Preparedness Month, and I see Director Hawkins and I see some of your crew, if you want to come on up to the front. And I'll go ahead and start off with the proclamation. How's that sound? Is that all right? Okay. Okay. As Commissioner Bigliotti mentioned, planning and preparing for emergencies and disasters of all kind is the shared responsibility of every community, every business, every family, and every individual. And Carroll County Preparedness Month, in coordination with National Preparedness Month, provides an opportunity to highlight the important role of individu

Very well said, and I want to say thank you to you and everybody for what you do for us anyways, but also thank you for coming in to do this every month. I think it really is important that we are prepared. And the other interesting thing about it, too, and we've seen it with previous storms as well, when you're prepared, or disasters for that matter, whether they're manmade or whether they're natural, if you're prepared, that means you're not taking away from emergency services. But the other aspect of it, too, in our county, and we see it every time that there's an issue. You have people, ci

Thank you. Photograph? Yeah, let's do it. I think we can go down four.

All right. Up next on our agenda, item number two, contract renewal for Evolve Software Project Docs Registered Trademark ePlan SAAS. SAS. SAS. It's called SAS? SAS. It is SAS.

Awesome. Well, thank you very much. Are there any questions, comments, or direction from the board?

Move the Board of Commissioners to renew the contract with Evolve Software for Project Docs E-Plan SAS in the amount of $84,445.80.

53:01 – 53:35•KKKenneth A. Kiler

have a motion do we have a second second we have a motion we have a second is there any further discussion um semi off the subject but um we had carol media here and they complimented uh gary davis who has been big with the connectivity between much of the county i want to thank you guys kind of before you um that was the i.t here played a big part of that and uh It's not easy, but you've done well maintaining it. So thank you.

We have a motion. We have a second. Is there any other discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right. Up next, item number three, exercise option to purchase through Ag Land Preservation in the State Program or MALF, the Aloha Farm LLC for Karen Hecht and Gregory Eden and Edward Harrison and Jill Turner. Good morning to you both.

Any comments, questions, or direction from the board?

56:22 – 56:37•KKKenneth A. Kiler

How do, uh, How do you decide whether it's a mouth easement or not? Does the landowner request a certain one? Do you decide it? Does your board decide it? How does that decision made?

Sure. Any other comments, questions, or direction from the Board?

Move the Board of Commissioners grant final approval for the Aloha Farms LLC property to participate in the MALF program. Second.

We have a motion, we have a second. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much.

Any comments, questions, or direction from the board?

Move the Board of Commissioners grant final approval for the Edward Harrison and Jill Turner property to participate in the MALF program. Second.

We have a motion, we have a second. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much.

58:49 – 59:02•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Do you count... qualifying soils in within trees, or is that one of the reasons this one's 62%? Because there is, there is a fair amount amount of trees on this site.

Move the Board of Commissioners grant final approval for the Karen Heck and Gregory Eaton property to participate in the MALF program. Second.

We have a motion, we have a second. Is there any further discussion?

I'll just mention I appreciate JP and Jackie, your work on these particular properties i know these things take some time and uh appreciate all your work to extend some of the ag pres down to that southwestern part of the county thank you very much for all your efforts we're glad to get the applications really so uh i think we have a few more different places so good thank you yeah i like seeing all the color together it makes it good yeah it's not everybody always wants to do it but it's nice to see them we do too thank you

Any other comments or questions? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much.

Up next, item number four, exercise option to purchase of the Rural Legacy Program, conservation easement on the Jacob B. Fisher and Mary G. Fisher property.

1:02:48 – 1:03:08•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Do you know, uh, did they buy the entire property? Mr. Fisher did buy the height tower property all the way to hoods road. And, and I know, uh, they got there before the winter and cooperated with hoods road on their snow fence. They they're already good neighbors.

1:03:11 – 1:03:32•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Did you want to make, I can, since, since this is the only one not in district four, um, I moved the board of County commissioners exercise the option to purchase a Royal legacy program, conservation easement on the Jacob B. Fisher and Mary G. Fisher property in the amount of 1,000,031,941 dollars and eight cents.

We have a motion. Is there a second? Second. We have a motion and a couple of seconds. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you both very much.

All right. Up next, item number five, grant approval to submit application and acceptance of award for maintenance training for green stormwater infrastructure. Good morning to you both.

So this is a two day conference seminar, for lack of a better word. Are these like two 12 hour days? Because if they are, I'm going to recommend Tim Burke represent the county at this.

Two eight, you can do that, Sam, right? Two eight-hour days?

1:06:00•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Is this classroom or field or a combination?

Any other comments, questions, or direction from the board?

Move the Board of County Commissioners approve the submittal of the grant application and acceptance of award to the Chesapeake Bay Trust Outreach and Restoration Grant Program for the Maintenance Training for Green Stormwater Infrastructure. Second.

We have a motion. We have a second. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. All right. Up next, item number six, grant an approval to submit application and acceptance of award for willow pond replanting.

Was there anything specific that affected the trees the first round?

Thank you. Move the Board of Commissioners approve the submittal of the grant application acceptance of award to the Department of Natural Resources Adaptive Management Program for the Willow Pond Replanning.

Second. We have a motion. We have a second. Is there any other discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you so much. Thank you both very much. All right. Up next, item number seven, request to amend the Carroll County FY2027 program open space annual program for the town of Manchester.

Any comments, questions, or direction from the board?

I just have a question about open space money in general. So the towns get their own open space money, and then we get open space money. How does that work?

And then are they able to apply for other special? There are certain things I know they can apply for special, but how's that different from that county?

And I think they're very good about applying for that stuff.

I know our county, they've always been, at least most of them, very aggressive in going after that money and done a lot with it.

Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. Any other comments, questions, or direction from the board?

Move that the Board of County Commissioners approve an amendment to the FY 2027 program open space annual program for the town of Manchester, changing the project scope from a new pavilion to resurfacing the existing tennis courts with a pickleball overlay and pond refurbishment at Christmas Tree Park and Piney Valley Park.

Second. We have a motion to be the second. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much, Bob.

1:11:33 – 1:11:56•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Thank you. Before we start the next subject, I'll get with you, but I actually got a voicemail early this morning from Hampstead Lions about Leicester Park and the pickleball there and them talking about wanting to coordinate. So I'll look at it, talk to him, but I'll throw it in your lap. OK. Thank you.

All right. Up next, item number eight, we will move into the work session for recreation and parks field restoration.

That doesn't sound very recreational. Thank you.

Is that this? No, it's different than this? No.

1:16:13•KKKenneth A. Kiler

So you said five community coordinators? Five part-time. So they share some rec councils?

1:19:26 – 1:19:48•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Yeah, and holler if you're going to cover it. So the Rec and Parks Advisory Board, they evaluate capital projects. They evaluate self-help projects. Self-help projects are funded all by us. And self-help is more money than us.

1:19:56 – 1:20:08•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Oh, yeah. But it's no open space money. The open space money is all capital projects and acquiring property. And they do a five-year plan evaluating that or?

OK. You're most welcome. I just had a question about staffing. So how do you determine staffing? I just noticed they're different. So is it by how many people they serve, how many programs? How is that determined?

Well, I just was looking. It seemed like there's 11. You said there were 11. One, two, three, four. So they all have a part-time and a full-time.

So why is the only one that doesn't have a part time is Freedom. That's the biggest.

Well, that's why I was wondering. I guess we've sort of been waiting for the allocation, the report about numbers of people in the programs. Is that going to come? Oh, that's this. OK. So I didn't know if it was based on that, because there are a lot of different. You have different volumes of people to take care of. That's why I didn't know if you based it on volume or you based it just on everybody gets the same thing, no matter what the volume. OK.

1:22:17 – 1:22:41•KKKenneth A. Kiler

And then historically, and you mentioned it a little bit, they had a lot more duties. Some of the individual rec councils were supplementing the pay for some of them. The county was paying them, and some of the individual rec councils actually paid them something, too. And I don't think that's happening anymore. I don't believe that's happening anymore. Because you've beefed it up.

There's a question on this slide. Yeah. So the first one says all citizens in Carroll County who meet the . How do we do it? Some of these councils have people from other counties playing. How do you prioritize the Carroll County citizens versus somebody from the other counties? He runs on the border. I mean, I know Mount Airy has some overflow, and I know we have some.

Do we have a problem that some folks can't get in? I just thought I remember at one of your events somebody was having a challenge. Because Mount Airy is part in Carroll and part in Frederick County. And we want to make sure that. The Carroll County citizens all have a chance to have an opportunity.

Unless they want to share some fields in Frederick County. We have the opposite problem. We don't have enough fields, so our kids are going to Howard County. And I guess they've got plenty to welcome us, because I don't know that people are getting turned away.

So their citizens come in and use our fields, and we don't charge them extra, but we have to pay to use their fields? It seems like if we're going to open registration to their folks, it's usually higher registration to cover what we have to get their fields for.

I'm just suggesting that if you If we're going to welcome those folks in, they shouldn't charge us for the fields. Anyway, that's up to them, but we're going to make sure.

We don't charge for our gym space. That's what I'm saying. We don't charge. I understand what you're saying.

I don't know about the rec councils, but I do know in Howard County they have a resident discount, they call it, for the adult. I know we have a lot of people that play pickleball that come from Howard County and Baltimore County. But in Howard County, you look up their places. First of all, they're more expensive. But they call it a discount, which is charging people out of county more. They have a discount for in county.

No, you understand what I'm saying. I just think you've got to make sure that we've got limited space. And if they're going to charge us for it, you want to make sure that we're getting some equity. Equity back. It shouldn't be for the student necessarily, but maybe it would incentivize the county We don't have to charge them. We're in some ways accounting to not have to charge us for the fields.

It's a new sport everybody's playing. Girls are playing, I think, too.

Can I ask you a question about some of these? Yes. So on these schools, they're obviously all different. I know there's some that have. Childcare. They do daycare. Correct. And they use their gym, so they can't get in. So how do you balance that out? Let's say basketball season. How do you know if there's really availability for the programs for the council? Because if the school has daycare, and let's say the daycare lasts until 6.30 instead of 6, or I don't know the timing, but you haven't done this for so long. I don't have long practice. Let's say practice is an hour. So how does that work?

What I'm trying to figure out is if, this just came to my attention, that certain schools have daycare, I guess, are they for-profit daycares, that they actually get the space and they

So obviously, we need the schools for these practices. And if they're not available at different times, let's say one's available at 6, but this one has a contract till 630. Is there any way that we can make sure that there is similarity between schools when they're doing the, I don't know if the school system does the contract or if the actual school does it, because from what I'm understanding, it shortens the time, the amount of practice time that they have available to school because they're different. So this elementary school might stay at 6.30, this might stay at 6, because they want to

Especially in the wintertime when they're doing basketball, whatever the schedules are. Right. But I just think. there should be an opportunity to have a discussion with them about they're holding up the whole gym for a handful of kids because they haven't been picked up yet and they can't schedule a practice. So then you can only get two teams in one hour and then If you do it too late for elementary school kids, it's past their bedtime. So you have a very short window. And that's a concern that I've heard that it seems to be different. And maybe they're not aware of it. And if the school sys

They would just be cognizant of that. And if it's possible, if it's just a handful of kids in there, that they could ask them to go to the cafeteria or go just sit in the lobby for the last 15 minutes so that they could actually have their full allotment of time.

Any other questions on that slide? The only reason I'm asking that is because I found out, and I've been out of the rec leagues for many, many years, but when I hear some of these costs that these parents are paying to play basketball because we have to rent space. I go to church, $185 for registration. I used to be like 15, but I'm dating myself. But $185 seemed like a lot. And if you have two kids, that's a lot of money because they have to rent space. For rec, we should be able to provide space. And if we can free up some of the, I'm not sure how much it is, but if we can free up some of th

1:42:24 – 1:42:35•KKKenneth A. Kiler

On the facilities, in the book, you list Panther Plaques under North Carolina Council. I don't think you have it on the slide.

1:43:27 – 1:44:04•KKKenneth A. Kiler

And it's confusing. And unfortunately, they had it sold and that fell through. Actually, the group forfeited their deposit. They're ready to try to sell it again. But in theory, the agreement will be up before. Because I was worried, does that agreement pass to a new owner? and uh but that's yeah it's only half a year left it's probably not an issue and then uh you list uh leicester park which doesn't really have much facilities it's it's a park but it's more of a passive and pickle bell

1:44:44 – 1:45:20•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Their original intention was to upgrade those fields. I'm hoping a new owner maybe wants to do that, but the current owner isn't interested in field use. People walk the track. And when Ron Schroers was there, they had some football games and all in a stadium, and he focused on a little more. Of course, he's been gone for a few years. So, yeah, it's private, but like you say, it was a past commissioner's put a...

How does it work when it's a school-owned field and a lot of these school-owned fields look like they're in poor shape? So how do we deal with that when it's a school-owned field?

Do they allow the rec councils to improve the fields?

1:47:54 – 1:50:55•KKKenneth A. Kiler

The original joint use agreement, which was the facility use agreement in the old days, was based on the fact that the rec councils did a lot of improvements at the high schools and the middle schools and therefore that's why they got priority usage and hopefully it's still the same way north carroll high school well every school but man val north carroll rec council has probably rebuilt the fields our joke used to be when they did spring garden they do they do fields for phys ed And then we make them and we even talked to the school system about some. They put up backstops for our softball fi

I just didn't know. So that was a choice, and there's none that are in excellent shape. Well, I'm just saying, from their point of view.

all right um the other question on the well this might come later but i know in the high schools that some of them have limited fields and depending on playoffs and stuff sometimes it goes into their season so how do you adjust for that like if you're playing in a lacrosse season and you've got to have a certain field but you can't get it until halfway through the season. How do you count that for a high school field? Because sometimes their seasons go longer because they don't know. Basketball is the same, I guess.

But how do they plan for that in the rec councils if the county has first choice, but it's unanticipated? What do they do?

Sometimes it's unanticipated. Is that an issue of the overlap, or do they just not use those fields?

Well, it could be. Or do they, I think it was, I'm trying to remember what school it was, I think maybe it was Century, that they can't get onto a certain time. I don't know if the school system holds it out for that time in case, or do they just wait till it happens? You know what I'm saying? How do you plan for that? Or do they just keep their own use of facilities until through their possible length of season? Is it an issue?

And I'm trying to remember, it seemed to me there was a reason that they couldn't use it, because they couldn't get it till the middle of the season. So in other words, it's sort of, I don't know how it counts in here, but it sort of counted as, hey, this is available, but it really wasn't because they used it longer into the season.

We just need to keep that in consideration as to what we really have available and what's not. You know what I'm saying? It's not so simple as you know. Right. You definitely know. We're trying to figure out what that looks like. 100%.

1:54:58 – 1:55:19•KKKenneth A. Kiler

I think, can you comment a little bit? It used to be spreadsheets. It used to be, was the AD any good or not? But now it's electronic. So does that still have its problems or is it pretty clean, this electronic system?

1:55:50 – 1:56:56•KKKenneth A. Kiler

that they did not want to have to do multiple calendars and and the high schools I'll hear from probably John O'Neill the high schools are poor schedulers period on any events and it's funny copper mine the old tennis place on on 42. that's their biggest headache is that the high schools don't schedule proper use they they've had games have to Stop in the third quarter because they didn't schedule enough, you know, and when I when I asked them copper mine, what's your biggest issue? And they said how the high school schedules, the the wreck, the others, they schedule pretty well. And again, an

1:57:15•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Who does that scheduling? Does it all go through the community coordinator, or do individual programs get on that electronic system?

1:57:32•KKKenneth A. Kiler

So if I'm soccer, I need to talk to the community coordinator. One person. I probably don't have the right terms for people, but you're doing well. Contact them and they schedule it.

And I think that's key. And we need to make sure that the rec councils are following that model where they're reaching out to the coordinators because it's the only way you're going to figure out who's using what field. So let's make sure that's occurring. And then as far as the high school goes, I mean, I can only imagine the elimination of the AD positions at the high schools probably isn't helping. That situation either, but it sounds like it was already difficult to begin with so the

Coordinators? Paid staff. Yes. Where are they located? Where are they housed?

I don't know if there's any opportunities. I know in Baltimore County, where I came from a long time ago, I think that they have staff, I don't know if they still do it, that is a joint staff in the school. So that same person, I mean, now that we're doing away with that, I used to think it was a shame for the athletic directors that are scheduling things because they were good teachers, too, and you had to take them out of the classroom and put them in an administrative position, losing their teaching talent. But is there any way to have that person help coordinate at the school and be housed

It just seemed like it worked very well.

1:59:22 – 1:59:46•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Baltimore County has... an office at most of the schools they have paid people Frederick County had paid people um that that would cost millions of dollars I think did uh did Linton Spring get a rec room it was supposed to yes they have a community they have a community down I think but that's probably the only one that has one

I was just thinking more of the high schools. But just to have someone that would be, I'm not saying putting extra people in, but it's how that person would be used if it would be more efficient. That they were there sort of with hands on with the high school stuff. So they were, I don't know if it's shared. I'm not sure how Baltimore County does it. I don't know if they need extra staff. But if we've got people in each of these areas, I mean, we have five of these coordinators and we have, what, six high schools? It's just a thought to see how we could coordinate and help them and help us and

2:00:25 – 2:00:47•KKKenneth A. Kiler

One last thing on the electronic system. I apologize. And then I've got questions at the end on communications. So I'm back. I'm the soccer coordinator. So I got a schedule through the community person, the Rec and Parks person. But I can look at the system. I just can't manipulate it. Correct. But I can look at it. If I want to see what's open or when I have it, I can look.

Is that because they have the ability or they want that ability? So how do we know what their needs are versus what? So this means, if I looked at a one and looked at a three, do I assume they all want three or do I assume some might just want one?

I guess what I'm trying to absorb from all this, what are the needs? Maybe you can come up with that later. Are we satisfying the needs of what each uniformly? If the younger kids practice once a week, are they all getting there once a week? If the older kids practice three times a week, do they all get the opportunity for three times a week? I'm just trying to make sure. We're looking at apples and apples for... whatever it may be. Because you're right, it might be once a week for a younger kid, but it's hard to tell that.

But if I were to, somehow through all this, we're going to gleam what the needs are in an equitable way. And I want to make sure that the way we claim it is going to be that they see it that way because they agree with our analysis of it.

Hopefully they've all seen this and they've given you the data. This came straight from them. So when we're looking at it, we're just trying to look at it with an equal kind of eye of what their needs are. And if somebody thinks they need five times more, that's unreasonable. If it's all level, you know. Okay.

And does it change based on who's got lights and not? Because it starts getting dark. Does that have an impact?

Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out so that there's somewhere equitably that there's lights. If you have a rec council, you've got this many teams, that they can, when it gets dark at 5 o'clock, I guess that's pretty late now. It's November. That might not be an impact for football and fall sports. It's just something to consider, that they all have that same opportunity.

I guess we're trying to get to it. What's how many fields based on your enrollment, your registration do you have? If you need an X size field and your registration supports it, how many does it support? I'm worried about the age. It's more about what their needs are on the certain size fields.

Well, it depends on your catchment area. You're not going to turn kids away. If you have Carroll County citizens, you have a big catchment area. That's why we have to make sure we have it done in an equitable way. Because you might be in a bigger catchment area if you're a rec council. Certain rec councils, they're not necessarily overlapping. So I know what you're saying, that it's not necessary. If you've got 1,000 kids versus 10,000, it's different.

Indoor space is probably a little more tricky, but it'd be nice if we all would be looking for opportunities. It's so much better for indoor space if you can hook it onto something that's already there. And I think one of the best decisions years ago was when they put the extra space onto the Southscope Senior Center. I think it was around $800,000 came from Rec and Parks. And because you're sharing infrastructure, you're sharing your bathrooms, you're sharing your parking lots. So the more opportunities we can use to take shared space and use it, it's very cost-effective. So whoever thought o

2:11:52 – 2:14:35•KKKenneth A. Kiler

And I've got some questions about communications and on Liberty. Rec and Parks, I don't think, is involved with the building committee. CCPS will have a building committee that goes through curriculum needs, space needs, whatever. And I thought I've always said the county commissioners can find the worst school site possible in Carroll County and give it to the schools, and that was Man Val. That has one gym, and it's horrible. It has a wrestling room that's actually called a gymnastics room or something, and it's shared. It's horrible. How can we make sure you guys are represented on the buil

2:15:05 – 2:15:30•KKKenneth A. Kiler

evolved into what the the bylaws purpose work for they wanted it as a 501 or whatever for donations and business doesn't need to donate to a you know it never it never was what they wanted it to be right and and so yeah it's i can understand that it's tough you know what is their purpose right and i and i'm not sure

Ted, I believe you may want to add something.

2:17:55 – 2:19:22•KKKenneth A. Kiler

how much are we willing to pay in order to get what yeah i and i don't think we should pay we we pay for everything they do anyway um they need two gyms and they need to serve the community as well as their stuff and that was another question i have on your advisory board um years ago when when i was on it the Carroll County public school rep never ever missed and I used to pick on him you know we're term limited and you you're on here as long as you got the job but they would come and that discussion would happen at the advisory board some you know and and uh And I just I personally think we

Well, and I think it's a good conversation to have. Because, again, it's economies of scale. And the times that we have, and I don't remember how that all worked, I remember making the full-size gyms in some of the schools. That was a brilliant idea. Because elementary school gyms, some of those, Freedom Elementary, you hit the walls. But I think all the middle school gyms we made larger. I think some of the new elementary schools were made larger. And that's a smart investment for the amount of money that it costs. So we should have a conversation with them. Ask them. I know my daughter teach

Well, I'll tell you what. A million and a half, we got money. I mean, that is well worth the investment. So how do we get on that conversation? Can we contact them to say we'd like to have a seat at some point?

2:21:20 – 2:21:47•KKKenneth A. Kiler

And we had that in the 90s. ebb valley was supposed to get a larger gym a rec office and uh the linton springs did and then it kind of went out of the budget it was in the advisory board's capital budget um and i forget 800 000 and it could be i'm not saying it's for sure but when we did up valley the enrollment went the enrollment had gone down and we didn't get very much state participation so it's possible

that it was done. I can't remember. It was a long time ago. But I know that school had need, and then it dropped, and we barely got any state participation in it. So it's a possibility that county commissioners might have said, hey, we're putting in more than we were supposed to. So it's possible. But I think it's something we should be trying to, Deb, if you could just get in touch with them, ask if we could have a seat. And then think, we've got to justify it and quantify it. Anecdotally, I think it would be great. But even for the little extra space for the coordinator, or if they could hel

2:22:27•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Baltimore County had a key. I guess Frederick County, you did too.

2:22:42•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Sunday night, you could unlock and go in there. Yeah.

All right, so I want to make sure that Commissioner Guerin and Commissioner Gordon, because I know I think they both have something that they wanted to mention or ask, so.

Commissioner Gordon, or? I just have one really brief question, which you can, if you could supply this later, I think it'd be ideal for the five of us. So under the field inventory and conditions, it lists good, fair, poor, non-usable. You already mentioned non-usable can be for a variety of reasons. Can we get definitions as to what actually falls into those? Well, not just non-usable, but what is good versus fair? I mean, we can all make an assumption, but I'd like to actually see what those specific categories and what falls into that criteria, if we could, when you have a second. Thanks.

Yeah, to that note, do we have this electronically as well? If not, can we get a copy of this?

That'd be great. Thank you. And also, really appreciate the discussion about the construction piece. You have to ask yourself, well, we're already giving them money, so why it shouldn't be that hard to at least start the conversation about additional space when we are building new schools, and we're only doing that right now at Liberty. If I can remember correctly, it's just Liberty High School, and that's just starting out. So That'll be down the road, but it's not gonna solve some of our issues right now. I feel like this is, I appreciate both of you. This is a conversation I think that's in

2:26:46 – 2:27:10•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Commissioner Guerin, and so you're saying the $5 million should be evaluated by the Advisory Council also, but what about we specifically gave enough money, I think, to do the third phase of that part. Should that go through them too, or should they have everything?

Well, I think it's fair to say that. I mean, so you're talking about Krimgold Park Phase 3 money. That's a separate amount of money, this money for field use.

2:27:18•KKKenneth A. Kiler

Specifically for that. They can't change that, but should they?

Yeah, there is a there is a framework for phase three, which already existed. It's a master plan. So and I mean, of course, like I would imagine that probably gets shared with the advisory council at some point. If it hasn't, I'm sure it already has or it will. But I don't think there's much question as to what phase three will involve. But if we need to tweak and change things, certainly or if they can speed it up. Exactly. I mean, that's why I think the advisory board and you know, you're very familiar with the advisory board.

And you were on it and people are willing to put in the time and effort to to so you know, in terms of the 5 million, and trying to make some tangible improvements to, you know, whatever fields fall within that criteria, I think the advisory board is a great place to start. And they've got a lot of information. Now they've got this packet, they've got this. I think that I just want us to be careful. I just want us to be careful that we don't get in the weeds too much on this. Because again, there are so many variables. The biggest one being regional availability. North Carroll may have a bunch

2:28:31•KKKenneth A. Kiler

We're paying at Pantherplex. We're paying at the other copper mine facility for both fields and indoor.

So, but my point being, even if there's a field available someplace, you know, you can't expect parents to get in a car and drive for an hour. So now it's this region, there's so many variables. So I think we need to be careful.

2:28:49 – 2:29:10•KKKenneth A. Kiler

But that's a good point. The electronic system, does that help with that? Can I, if I'm the soccer coach at North Carroll, can I look at Westminster's? Can I look at... Yeah, so, yeah, hopefully they'd say, wow, there's a field... 20 minutes away, not an hour. Yeah, that's a good point.

So, you know, it's not easy. It's not an easy thing for us to try to fix, but I'm glad we took the actions we did in this last budget. I don't know when the last Board of County Commissioners did something like that, but we did it, and we did it in a big way. We allocated a lot of money to trying to fix this problem, and, you know, I'm glad we're here where we are, but I just want to make sure we're giving Rec and Parks and everybody the...

some guidance of what they need. If I may, I'm sorry. Commissioner Guerin, I think you have a point there. I don't think we're going to get to it today, but my suggestion for everybody would be these criteria about what we're looking for, we email to Bob and Lee so they can compile them, and then once they have a list, we can discuss it in the next open session that we have and determine that that's the list that we want to move forward with. So I think that was a sound idea that you had.

I was just going to mention for Krimble, while you're on it, It might be better for like you're the people that you are going to use crim gold down there. They might want to relook at the plan and just see and sort of sign off on it or see if there's things that have changed. The people that are actually going to be using it, whether their needs change, you know, you're Jordan and yeah, that's probably an evolving discussion.

And we've had, we've had meetings and if there's any changes, um, that we need to make, we can certainly do that, because I think it's still early enough, but I do want to get started.

You want to make sure that, just because it's a 10-year-old plan, that this is still what their needs are. And I'm just looking at Hodges Park. I'd also ask that group. I rode over there. I'd never been there before. I've walked by it forever. I never drove back. It's a mess. You have a picture of it right here. So on some of these, like if that was filled in years ago and it took a bunch of money, if it's going to cost so much money, the question is, is it worth it to do it there, or should you try to if there's somewhere else. I've been on, I've tried, I talked to the state, I had a call wit

It might not be worth it. We could put solar. If it doesn't work, maybe put solar farm there or something.

And I think that piece is missing. And the other thing is, in the long term, I know in Loudoun County, where my granddaughter plays, Every one of the high schools have beautiful turf fields. My granddaughter is seven. She said she'd never play on grass again. But they use those all weekend. And the little kids play sideways. And they have just tape that goes on the ground. So they can have four games at a time. And so it's used constantly by the community. So I don't know if there's a long-term plan. The school system sort of valued that a number of years ago. But it's something to think about

All right. Well, thank you, everybody, and thank you very much. We will get you the e-mails with the criteria that we think might be considered, and then we'll talk about it again in open. Not next week, though, because not all of us will be here next week, right?

No, no, no. Yeah, next week. Right. There's two that will be absent.

Right. Okay. So we will not schedule it for next week. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right, up next we will move into the public comment portion of our...

2:34:12•KKKenneth A. Kiler

I probably have more questions, but I'll email you. I'm happy to answer them. And I will email you about Hampstead lines. Okay.

And we'd like to hear back from what the rec council says about all this. Have they seen this yet?

What's that? Have they seen this documentation? Well, they will. They will. Because we've got to get this group going with the advisory. And that will bring in some representatives. So we've got a plan for that. I think, well, I say we. I think Rick and Parks has a plan for that.

Deb, do we have anybody here for public comment? Matt, do we have anybody on the line for public comment?

All right. Thank you very much. We'll now move into the admin open section of the agenda. Does anybody have anything today for admin open? All right. Hearing none. I need a motion to approve the closed minutes for cybersecurity from August 27th, 2026. We have a motion. Do we have a second? We have a motion. We have a second. Is there any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Uh, we will now move into agenda review. Good morning, Wanda. How are you? All right. So first up, agenda review for the week of Monday, September 7th. Monday, Se

I'm going to scratch from that because it's the only weekend I can go see my daughter.

Okay, no worries. So Commissioners Gordon, Kyler, and myself will be attending Saturday.

2:37:09 – 2:37:30•KKKenneth A. Kiler

And I can get information if somebody's interested. At dinner the other night, a guy invited me to Upper Coast thing and touring the new building down there, and that's in the evening because I told him I can't do it in the morning. He goes, and I'll forward everybody when I get it. It's in the evening. They'd love to have us.

Yeah. Thank you very much, Commissioner. Thank you. All right. Saturday, September 12th shows nothing on the formal calendar. Sunday, September 13th, Commissioner Kyler has the podcast. Does anybody have any corrections or alterations for the first week of our agenda? All right, hearing none, I'll move into the second week of our agenda, the week of Monday, September 14th. Monday, September 14th, 3 o'clock p.m., Transit Advisory Council with Commissioner Kyler. Tuesday, September 15th, 9 o'clock a.m., Planning and Zoning Commission with Commissioner Gordon. 12 o'clock p.m., Former Students and

2:39:50 – 2:40:21•KKKenneth A. Kiler

At 6 p.m., from 6 to 7, that is the Arts Council actually giving the commissioner award that we all judged. I want to try to make it there, but... um at the community college there's two games following the thing so uh um i'll put me put that down and put put me down for that what um what what day is that um thursday the 17th thursday the 17th

All right, and I've got it on there. Okay, so I've got it on my counter. So yes, I'm gonna go to the community college thing, and then I'll probably go to the Arts Council since I'm already up here.

And Wanda, if you could add me to both of those as well.

All right. Thank you, everybody. And then Friday, September 18th at 1230 p.m., the Manchester Fire Department Chiefs Crab Feast. And then Saturday, September 19th shows nothing on the formal calendar. And Sunday, September 20th, Commissioner Gordon has the podcast. Are there any other additions, corrections or alterations to the second week of our agenda?

2:41:07 – 2:41:27•KKKenneth A. Kiler

The Manchester Fire Department's Crab Feast. Can't be that day. I'll have to look and what the date it is a I'm not here, so I definitely won't be there, but be. I don't think it's that day, but let me double check.

I know I have those emails, so that will be pending then for the Chiefs Crab Feast. Does anybody have any other alterations or corrections for that week? All right, hearing none, I need a motion to go into closed for land acquisition and then to adjourn thereafter. So moved. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. We have a motion. We have a second. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? All right.