Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I do have one correction, page eight, just on the top. It's just missing commissioner. It just says May asked if this would be. So it just needs a commissioner in front of May. That's it.

I'll set a motion with the adjustment to adding commissioner to page eight on the top before commissioners maze name. Second.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. What I just wanted to bring to everyone's attention is, so the church that I go to, the gentleman who does the security, his name is Norman Reen. He is a retired NY, New York State police officer. And he has taken upon himself to do a 9-11 remembrance tribute and exhibit throughout Florida. So this year, from September 9th to the 12th, it's at Winter Garden City Hall, if anyone is interested. It is taking up three and a half days. He's got somewhere along the lines of like 30 tables of memorabilia. He always invites first responders, military, Gold Star familie

Thank you. And thank you for that invitation. Excuse me. something that I probably will be going and attending with my son. I appreciate that. Just in reports, I wanted just to let everybody know the things that I've done through the month. Just attended and watched the Citizen-Led Parking Committee meetings. If anybody doesn't know, the Citizen-Led Parking Committee is being shown on YouTube every Thursday, and it's also open to the public. And they're meeting in regards to the two possible sites, uh, for, for garages. So if anybody's interested in that, um, you know, it is open. Um, I attend

Thank you, Chair. Only two quick notes, and this is more so for down the line. Commissioner Tedona actually reminded me of it, but the city of Claremont is doing their 9-11 memorial service on the Friday the 11th, and I believe it's at 10 o'clock at the Arts and Rec Center. And then also they have Sips and Salsa on the 19th as well. So definitely two important events in our city and would love to see folks out there. That is all of my report.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hello, everybody. I'd like to bring to your attention why your vote counts. Your vote is the voice. Soldiers have sacrificed their lives defending their freedoms that include your right to vote. Honor their sacrifice, making your voice heard. Your votes help choose leaders and shape decisions that affect your community and your future. Every vote matters. Everyone. So don't think that you're the only person. One vote's not going to matter. It does. Our votes can make a difference. Join us on September 14th from 6 to 8 right across the street at the Claremont City Cente

I have nothing to report tonight. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just briefly, I am also a member of the Green Waste Committee, although I missed the bike rides. But the work that we're doing and the recommendations that will be brought back to the city, I think are going to be extremely important for safety for those who like to ride bikes and how to connect the city. So as my colleague said, you're welcome to attend those meetings. Thank you for mentioning the right to vote and how everyone should exercise your voice, whether you're doing it in person or mail in, your vote matters. Please, please, asking everyone to take the time to

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Gates, if you don't mind, sir, I have a few questions. Yes, sir. Okay, so you're leasing the property. How long is your lease for?

Okay, and this will not violate your lease at all, correct? Say that again. This move of the CUP would not be violating the lease at all, correct? Excellent. Okay. Since there's no embalming on site. Correct. Okay. It's going to be coming according to the packet. For the record, it's going to be coming, the deceased is going to be coming from Orlando.

Now, I noticed in the packet when planning and zoning, read it back to me, I noticed it says no dressing of the deceased. Okay, now you know it's going to sound like I have no sympathy for the dead, but I want to be honest with you. When you transport a deceased body, it's going to move. It's going to rock. It's going to roll, especially if you come from Orlando. So it's going to be hard. This is really hard. Will you be touching up like any portions of the body? Because that's considered dressing. That's why I don't know if you want to take that out.

All right. As is. Take care of that. There'll be no overnight. It's only going to be one day, one day only, or is it going to be like a two day? You're not going to have a two day event.

Okay. Yes, that's exactly what I'm asking. Thank you for that. Okay. And, uh, cause you have no refrigeration on site, correct?

Yes. Uh, Okay, so far, you're sounding good except for one simple part.

Okay, I've been to your property. I'm allowed to go to your property. I'm allowed to see physically your property. I've been to your property two days in a row because I couldn't believe what I saw. I took some pictures and I handed it to our planning and zoning department. And if they could show them one at a time, so this way the audience and my fellow commissioners can see. Okay. Okay. First picture is the spa and the nail salon. I count three cars. Next picture, please, sir. Next picture is a different angle on it. From the spa all the way down to where that white SUV in the other car, tha

Sorry, it's hard to hear you for some reason. I can't hear that. I think I heard what you said. I'm sorry. So you're parked in a handicapped spot right now and it's not supposed to be there. Okay. Because on your location, I believe you only have two, one in front of the nail salon and one in front of your establishment. See, the problem I have with this, okay, I count 15 and that was random days. 15 minus 25 is 10. Okay. I had a lot of applicants in the six years that I set up here come to me and ask me, could you approve this? And I said, I cannot because you don't have sufficient amount of

You saw those cars there by the business. You have a viewing. It might hurt their business. That's why it is. To me, it's important for the parking. So my question to you, not a statement. is do you think it's right that you take up the whole parking lot from your so-called tenants for their business?

Okay. Well, I must have missed it because when I was there two days in a row, your parking lot at the church was empty. So the staff must have parked in the parking lot for that last picture you saw. My final question is, You're basically having a viewing, okay? And I understand that. So from the viewing, it's going to either cremation, cemetery, or back to Orlando. So let's say it's going to the cemetery for burial, okay? Will you have like a recessional burial?

Okay, and since Highway 27, State Road 27, no Highway 27, I was right the first time, and State Road 50, if up to my beliefs, PD cannot escort you on major highways. So who would be out there directing traffic? On 27th.

Great answer. Great answer. Thank you. That was my concern with the traffic. But unfortunately, I cannot approve this due to the fact because you have limits in amount of parking. I'm sorry, sir. I think it might be a great idea, but... It's too small of an area to have 70. I count 90 altogether. I just found out 90, that it's 90 people altogether, and you only got 25 parking spots. You got 55 across the street. 25 plus 55 comes out to be 80. Okay, so I'm just trying to get into my head to find a medium where, you know, we could work with each other, but... That's a lot of people. That's a lot

I think I can work with this. I think Vinny brings up some very, very good concerns. But the fact that you have support from neighbors around you. If I can ask, I guess one of my questions is in terms of the parking for the church, obviously on Sundays, that's the fullest. But if you could estimate during the week how full, in comparison to the open and closing hours of the funeral home, how full does your parking lot get, I guess, in comparison to the adjacentness of the funeral home?

Gotcha. Okay. No, I was just curious on that in terms of, you know, what it looks like during the week. Yeah. I completely understand the heartburn in terms of those parking spaces, but the fact that you have that quote unquote overflow parking space, gives me a little bit of a better feeling on that. Um, and that's the only question that that's the only real question I had in terms of that, that overflow parking. So that's all.

I appreciate, uh, Commissioner Nemex bringing up the parking. Cause that was one of the issues that I had. He brought up some interesting points though, that I didn't, um, think about, which were interesting. And so I'm adding that to some of the questions that I'll be asking you. So I know the parking is based on, and it's probably for staff. So this is going to be a staff question because this is more based on code. So the existing building is 4,950 square feet. There is no additional square footage that he's adding to the existing building. So the existing building is 4,950 square feet. So

Okay, so based on that, we're looking at 70 seats, which actually is more like 89 because I counted all the seats, which included the chapel and the offices and the conference room. We have 89 seats. So that includes, I guess, for the visitors and the existing staff. So based on 89, if you divide that by the 25% parking spaces. Well, if you divide that by the four, it comes out to 22.25. So if you round that up to 23 parking spaces, that leaves only two and we're sharing space. So the question that was not answered or wasn't provided, and I know there was a letter from the salon and the salon

So we don't know what the salon needs on that. So that's questionable on that because I didn't pick that up until Commissioner Nemec had brought up the pictures about the salon, and it seemed like it was a pretty full place. I understand there's going to be overflow parking. I understand that he's going to be using that. And how much overflow parking is available across the street? That's the question I have.

All right. So we have 25. Yeah. We have 25 at the existing. Yes.

I would like to just, it's in the packet. I believe you have 55 spots.

Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. So 25 for the salon slash funeral home and then 55 for church. Okay. So we are in need of, For you all, so that helps with the overflow. There's enough there for that. Now, going back to your services at the church, you're saying on Wednesdays you have 15 cars. And what about for the regular service? Are you a Saturday or a Sunday service?

Okay, and is that a full house there on Sundays? Yes. Okay, so then those 55 cars, 55, sorry, parking spaces are used up.

I understand that. I was going to go back to that. But thank you. Because I wanted to make sure I put that on record. Yes. So your hours of operations are... There's a lot of information here. Oh, yes. Right here. So Monday through Saturday from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. Okay. So Sunday, it's free. 55. Okay. So we got 55 plus the 25 for $89.

seats now in regards to your services do you usually get a full house or do you have more than the 89 or more than 90 you know so far we have not nothing okay can i can i interrupt for one second can i ask just for the record um i guess the average from your own information your own thoughts what is the average number of folks that you would have for service reviewing like at the funeral home you said how many people normally have like an average like an average for service or just the viewing, uh, whatever services, the funeral home.

No, it's okay. And I appreciate the commissioners jumping in because it helps. It's helped speeds up and it helps. Um, cause I know, I think they know where I'm going with on some of these questions. So I appreciate it. That's not an issue for me. Um, I see that there is a condition that we added on there for the location of the overflow parking. The question is, and I think was added, you will have a staff person that will manage the flow. Are you all going to be putting cones down just for safety issues because of the, since it is a street that people use?

Okay, perfect. And then... The question that I have, which we don't see a support letter from, is the mortgage company. I believe that's to the south. Is there entrance and exit on the south side onto Cluster? Do we know? Is there anybody here from... It says Southern Insurance on our aerial here. So the only letters that we received were from... The salon from the church and from Musco Lighting. Correct. So where is Musco Lighting on that map?

All right. So you're – I see the church. That's the church? That's the church. That's the church. Yes, ma'am. So then did we get a letter or did they want to participate, the people from the Southern Insurance or Mortgage? I'm asking staff. Did they provide a support letter? Because they would, I believe, be affected with the traffic or the parking –

Yes. John, and I'm not, I don't go down the streets very well and I don't know if anybody else can jump in in regards to cluster Oak. Um, if the mortgage company would say, for instance, it was packed and there was people crossing and there was, you know, a lot of people there, would they be able to leave their property and go, I guess, down to Brogdon Drive and then get off on US 27? They wouldn't be obstructed.

Perfect. But I see that there's, Even if they were there, it seems like they can go the opposite way and go to Brogdon Drive into US 27. Okay. I think that's all for me. And I appreciate, again, the commissioners for jumping in. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, honestly, all my questions have been answered so far. So if you could keep going.

Mr. Chair, all of my questions have been asked as well.

I'm pretty good, except I actually found something. Christian, you're on the line, right?

Excellent, because this one's for you. So... And actually it's weird because it kind of ties into the second thing we're going to talk about tonight as the commission. So I want to clarify something because when I was going through this, you guys are citing, or let me go back to the page. Staff's report that on page 12, staff report, it says, I want to clarify this resolution 2026. section 86-144D as the source for the CUP criteria. But the ordinance that we're discussing tonight identifies those criteria under section 101-212C. And the reason I ask this is back in April, the Emanuel Temple Re

anything in the 80s in our code okay so we need to make a correction to this resolution then before we move forward because we're citing on page 14 section 86-144 and then later tonight we're also discussing discussing 101-212 for the same four cup findings so is that something we need to correct before it goes to council

Okay. Um, Thank you, Christian. I appreciate you answering that. It caught my eye because we've talked about it in the past. No other questions, Chair.

I got if you commissioner may would you want me to go first or. Yes, the one I did forget to disclose that it is speak to a local funeral parlor. to pretty much find out the way of the land this is brand new for me so i just want to know the procedures of transporting a body and so on i was going to say you were very knowledgeable about it i didn't know if you had done some work or anything new york we went attended a lot of funerals Unfortunately. And, you know, I'm sorry. Maybe you might not have a big showing, but all the funerals that I've attended, they were standing room only and lines w

I'm trying to understand. On the south side of the church building, okay, there's the electrical, I believe it's called, the lighting building, the lighting company.

Yeah, Musco. Do we have an amount of staff members that are there?

Okay. That helps. That answers my question. Back to... Mr. Drake, I'm trying to find a medium point, Mr. Gates, between us, okay? And I do apologize for that. For some reason, time for a new phone. Okay. Is there any way, because the parking is a big thing with me. Is there any way you could have smaller amount of audience for the viewing? Because right now you got 70. Okay. Is there any way we can we negotiate? Can we work out that you have a smaller viewing? So this way it'd be less cars and traffic on the road. That's the way I'm looking at it. I'm sorry. I'm trying to work with you.

right so my initial question was are you going right now you have 70 seats in the viewing area are you willing to you go to you tell me well what's it's your business i don't want to interfere with your business but you know that it seems like the parking that i currently have is adequate for the 90. it's because i have 55 plus the across the street

I'm just asking out of curiosity. Well, no, you're entitled to ask me a question, and you're the applicant, and I'll be more than happy freely to let you know. I've denied a lot of projects that came across my desk because one parcel. Now, I understand, for example, you have your church. That's two separate parcels, two. Okay. For example, there was one with food trucks. The reason why it was denied was because there was no place to park. The land was 10 spots. And they said, oh, we could park in this shopping center. And that wasn't satisfactory with me. It's because, yes, you will have an at

Right, I agree, but that's not a business. It's not a business. This is a business. You're asking us to change the resolution, and you're putting a very large... To me, 70 seats in there, plus an additional 20. So that's a lot of seats. I've been voting like this for the past six years. I really wish you could find something so I could change my vote for you. I really do. You seem very sincere, and it's a good project. It's just... Rules are rules, and I hate saying it like that. It really does.

Yeah, you know what? I would like to ask my fellow commissioners if they're okay with that. I am.

So just as an example, when my mom passed, at the time we went to Claremont Funeral Home off of Mohawk. Yes. And it was view only, but with all due respect, that gentleman was very specific that his room only held 30 people. So, I mean, mom didn't know that many people down here, so it wasn't a problem. But he was, again, he was very, very specific that that's all he could hold. That was the maximum that he could hold in there, if that helps.

Yes, sir. Thank you. That does help me. Ms. May, Commissioner May, I'm sorry.

No, there was no interruption whatsoever. Thank you. You're, again, bringing very good points. So my question again is to staff because I'm concerned about the salon. I don't know how many, I've been to that salon before so I'm trying to remember how many seats or how many chairs that place has. So I know that they're okay with it now, but once you have the 70 people, it might become a problem. So I don't know if there is a ratio of how many the salon can have versus a ratio of what the funeral home could have. And just because I've been to places where they have reserved parking spaces, where

Yeah, no, thank you very much. And, uh, yeah, I calculated 2,178 square feet for the, um, for the salon. Um, and then we do have enough handicap parking now that we are increasing the number of, um, Because I know we're looking at the handicap parking based on square footage of the building, but now that we're increasing the number of visitors, do we have enough handicap parking now?

Thank you, John, for all the clarity in regards to the code and all that.

i think i don't have any any further questions thank you mr chair i don't know if it's a question or a comment um listening to the discussion from my fellow commissioners um i've had the same concern when i read this about parking the number of parking spaces my question to the owner is even though you've gotten the approval from the other businesses saying that they don't mind Is it possible, knowing that a salon business fluctuates, that she may have days where she has an overflow of customers, you may have a service going on where you have an overflow. We know how funerals go depending on t

Okay, I can go with that because I would hate to say that you would impede her business and then her livelihood is impacted, her customers are discouraged, and they decide, well, we're not coming back to you anymore because we always run into this problem. So as long as something like that could be worked out, then I can support you.

I would like to enter a motion of approval with the conditions that the language get changed in the resolution exactly what commissioner Hoynston said about providing adequate parking for your fellow tenant in the nail salons or whoever that tenant might be in the future also I like to add The maximum viewing is 50. I calculated it. It comes out just barely enough. Okay. And the reason why I say that, sir, it's because Commissioner Hoinstein hit the nail on the head. People don't stay for the whole viewing. They come and they go. And that was my main concern with the safety of traffic coming a

Is that okay, Paula, to meet your needs? Commissioner Todona, to meet your needs, is that okay as well? We hit a good soft spot.

Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Kramer. You need to also add... Approval with the correction changing wording from 86-144D to now state section 101-212. So it's just changing where the language is coming from.

Do we have that? You got that? Do you want me to repeat it? Because, I mean, I wrote it down. 86-144B to eliminate that to 101-212. I'm paying attention. I'm learning with you. I got you. That was a good call, by the way. Very good call. All right. That's my motion. I'm looking for a second.

Mr. Gates, I want to say I wish all my applicants was easy to work with like you. You made it very hard for me on this decision. Good luck. I'm sorry to speak out of turn.

So I think my biggest concern with some of the edits, when I read it, It sounds like, in my opinion, that it's too much that we're trying to comply with House Bill 399. And me personally, I think we're just giving up way too much stuff. community character, neighborhood feel, no longer being sufficient, things like that, having to keep incredible records to have any type of denial. So it's just in my opinion that the wording should stay there if it gives us a leg up to fight, for lack of a better term. We always seem, and again, it's my opinion, that we're placating and complying, but I've bee

Thank you for that. I got to tell you that. I enjoy a little bit more redundancy and the minutiae of the wording that was made quite adequate to me when we met all together to that roundtable meeting and we discussed how there were a subsection to a subsection of another subsection to a third subsection of why we could actually, which actually vindicated this committee into how we actually do our deep dive. So it was due to that, going down to the minutia of the code, that, again, it vindicated to all of you why we do the due diligence that we do. The other thing, and you're not here, my hando

Okay. So, and now, Holland and Knight also goes on, because I asked the question, again, this is Google, okay? I didn't speak to anybody. How to fight 399. Local governments can fight and manage the impacts of 399 by establishing strict, objective compatibility standards, creating airtight written records for project denials and recalibrating fee structures, which 399 takes away. Additionally, decisions need to be based on use traffic counts, which we don't count on for some reason, even though my fellow commissioner showed a picture of wall-to-wall traffic, environmental limits, which we don'

Hey, Christian. So I read through this, and I think you added, I agree that we're trying to make it more objective versus subjective, especially with this HB 399, because it does require every local government to adopt objective, measurable criteria in its comprehensive plan and land development regulations, which is the reason why we're here to try to get these changes done work. when it comes to legalities, at least we'll have facts versus just because we just don't like it. Um, so, you know, I, I'm just going to go through some of the things and I think, um, I put my thoughts down as well.

Great. I mean, violate's a pretty strong word, so... I mean, if they don't violate the land development code, I'm, I'm pretty good with that. So, uh, I, I understand the, the, the taking out of the proposed use may be considered desirable at the particular location because then that becomes subjective, which can open up, um, questions. Um, so I, I, I do agree that you're trying to put the guardrails, um, into this, into this ordinance now. When it comes to the additions that you added specifically under transportation, utilities, stormwater management, and then I have some additions and Oh, so

And I noticed, you know, when you try to do a multimodal, which is a pedestrian and a biker on that street, especially on 50th, there is no bike trails, it becomes a problem. So I think that we need to be specific on size if possible. I think that our standards should start looking, we should start looking at a minimum at least of eight feet. That should be our minimum. That should be our standard instead of the four to make this a success for the future. In regards to utilities, I talk about it all the time. I don't see anything about trees in here. I think trees has to be part of our infrast

Thank you, Chair. So I have mainly just two questions and one's a double hit, I guess you could say. And this is kind of just from my own edification for the public as well. In terms of, yeah, I know. In terms of the role of the checklist, I think on the last page, for my own information, is this essentially going to be just an internal tool for development services? Or is this kind of going to be like a checklist for applicants as well to kind of look at or developers? Or is there going to be an essential tool essentially a completed copy included in our packets from staff. And the only reaso

And yeah, and I think just to follow up on that, you know, if it is to be included, I think it may be good to essentially have staff kind of provide a, you know, either a preliminary or an initial, you know, condition met or, you know, condition not met or, you know, something that they may need, you know, if they need something else, maybe they can add that in as well. just so we have a better understanding of why that decision was taken. And the reason I'm saying that is kind of just alludes to the last point is when I was on council, I was obviously on there on a time where we had a number

Yeah. And also, you know, it may save time and energy. So. All right.

First of all, I'd like to thank Commissioner May for taking two of my questions. I swear, I think you're bugging my house, but that's something different. My most concern is I'd like to bring this to staff. Are you comfortable with these changes? Are you, that wasn't, that's not the question, director. Are you comfortable with these changes? I don't mean to put you on the spot. Because you have a lot more experience than I do at this. You've seen rules come and go. That's why I'm asking if you're comfortable with them.

Excellent. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Cruz. Appreciate that. Question to counsel. I noticed that you have a lot of strikethroughs. That means you're deleting And I noticed that you have a lot of bold underline. Is there anything you might have forgot to put in this that we don't know?

Oh, okay. Let me restate it then. Did you leave anything out of this?

Thank you know further questions right now for Council.

Thank you. I don't have a lot of questions actually I just want to talk a little bit about the checklist and clarify in section D. It says transportation system adequacy is that where we're covering parking. Because much like solid waste, parking is, as we saw tonight, was a big issue. I'm just suggesting if parking is not under the transportation that we add another bullet point, councilor, that says parking.

Good agreement. I like that. I was assuming, which makes any sense to me.

Yeah, I just didn't know whether it's part of transportation system adequacy. I am not sure.

And then the only other suggestion I have about the checklist is that – under a where it says i love this idea of postponement denial denial without prejudice approval or approval with conditions um that maybe we add on to the checklist what are those conditions so that as we're making our notes here check they've got the future date essential missing information i'm sorry does not violate the city's comprehensive plan check use is not detrimental to health safety and general welfare check Use does not violate the land development code. Well, maybe there's something in there and it's approval

I think the postponement also is we've tabled. Correct. So it should be postponement is part of the table process as well.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. All of my concerns really have been addressed. I don't have a problem with the words violate. I think we need to have something in there strong, so I'm good with that. I definitely agree with the transportation where we're talking about sufficient size length that would be specific. that were specific in those. I also agree with Commissioner May with the trees and the greenery. Definitely with the checklist, I was wondering about that. Is it something that we're going to maintain? Is it something that's going to be documented so that we will have a reference in case somet

Does that answer your question, Paula? His last part. You got it? Great. Where's the IT guy? Yeah. Because it does what it doesn't to me.

But I think it's a check and balance. Right. I think it's a check and balance. And I think it's important that we have a checklist to ensure that thing. I'm a process person. To make sure the process has been followed. Make sure everyone looked at everything that they're supposed to look at. I can go back and say, well, on this date, on this checklist, you checked off that this said X, Y, Z, and now you're telling me something different.

Correct. That's what I'm saying. Because like you said, you brought up a very good point. Can we legally, let's say we get into a lawsuit, is it going to be documented?

I just want to jump on what Kramer was saying in regards to, you know, we don't see parking, but I think just looking at what Mr. Tunona had given us here, traffic counts and infrastructure capacity is so important because of, you know, lack of water. We need to make sure that development that comes to the city, that we have the infrastructure in everything. roads, traffic, water consumption as well. That's it.

Just two things real, real quick. I kind of like the term adversely affect, overviolate. because I think it gives us more latitude to deny something. You can call a gray area what you want, but I could see getting into a pissing contest with an attorney over the word violate. I think adversely affect gives us a lot more room to maneuver that we do not agree with the CUP. I think number four should stay in there. The proposed use may be considered desirable at the particular location because I still think that gives us a minor leg up on community character and neighborhood feel not being suffic