City Council - Special Meeting

Okay, hello everyone. I am calling the special meeting of the Ross Town Council for Wednesday, August 26 to order. Town Manager Johnson, has the agenda been posted and are there any changes?

City Council Chambers, Thank you traditionally on a special agenda we include at the beginning, public comments, but I think it makes more sense to take public comment after item number four. City Council Chambers, So the order will be the presentation by staff and Gensler Council will ask questions, then we'll take public comment, then we'll bring it back to counsel for a discussion and input on future direction. City Council Chambers, And then we will adjourn Okay, so with that I will turn it over to number four town Council to receive a presentation from gensler regarding the validated civi

Because of your cough, right? Thank you, Krista.

Yeah. I mean, you could sit at the table, wherever you want to be. This is fine.

You have to talk into the mic because it's being recorded.

City Council Chambers, Thank you, that was really helpful. City Council Chambers, I just have one question to start out. City Council Chambers, If all the services were in the same building what kind of magnitude would the cost be to make the I assume it with the whole building would have to be an essential services act building. City Council Chambers, What kind of magnitude, are you talking about cost wise just a general.

City Council Chambers, I didn't understand you said something about reverting to the baseline program what what is baseline I don't see baseline here yeah.

And so but that that baseline is not an option the baseline is not an op well again the baseline is an option it's it's one that we feel is more difficult unless we reduce the program and you know I I know at one point it seemed like a lot of the program it was everyone's wish list but maybe it could be reduced is is that a possibility to reduce some things to make it fit

City Council Chambers, And then the. City Council Chambers, Study one. is doesn't have a fire station up front it phases the buildings in is that correct.

So there's space, but it's not actually intended to be used as a fire station until a whole separate phase. Okay. And then study two is the one where you've added administration to the current town hall, and then kept all of the public works in the existing building. We're recommending rebuilding public works, but all of the public safety.

Mayor Mrakas, So i'm not quite sure why, why are we talking about phasing isn't it less expensive to build everything up front all at once.

I was just I'm curious how different is this going to look from the beautiful design that all of us loved several months ago? How different will this look?

I have another question and that is the building to the right for the housing, you've pushed it off to the very edge. Is that going to be a problem?

Mayor Mrakas, Does the this spacing does this give you some concern about entry into the area parking into the area you've got more. Mayor Mrakas, land use so there's less is that a problem is that.

So the first thing that I wanted to acknowledge, are you aware that we had an operational fire station working in this building? Yes. With the police and the paramedics? Yes. Okay. So what I'm finding a surprise here is that you're saying that the fire department needs 3400 square feet. And we have just reconstructed Sleepy Hollow in our department, and it's 2400 feet with 400 square feet of a shared gym. So how is it that Sleepy Hollow only needs 2000 square feet, but we need 3400? Please, Kristen.

I'm just doing the fire square footage. There's paramedics at 1,900, 1,500 of shared, apparatus 3,100, and then the police station 3,800. What I would like to know is that, you know, sometimes if I go to buy kids and I go to the candy store and I say, how much candy do you want for Halloween or on Halloween night? You get a huge bag of candy and they want it all.

But, you know, we have to approach this practically. So I think that Sleepy Hollows and Fairfax said this is the size of the building we have. This is what we can build within it. But this plan looks like we went and took all these inputs Mayor Mrakas, From a very old study and said, oh, we have to build it this way. Mayor Mrakas, So let me ask other projects, you were working on did you interview the heads of the departments, did you work within constraints of budget and size and space, or do you just go to the department heads and then whatever square footage they they want you build.

Mayor Mrakas, Then there's a dialogue in terms of fire operations that needs to happen with the department yeah and what about police, why is, why is the fire department only 3434 hundred sure need a police station for 3800. Mayor Mrakas, And I mean if we're small town here yeah we've got to two officers on duty and the chief sometimes So why does the police station have to be 3800 feet.

City Council Chambers, And to be very crystal clear the Mary mcgrath. Mayor Mrakas, numbers you took was for a separate building correct for a standalone they were just putting those requirements here. Mayor Mrakas, Because what I think we all need to acknowledge is that everything was operating in 2025 here, we actually did it on the site in this even more constrained than what. Mayor Mrakas, You know you're saying the existing square footage is 8400 but you're saying we should move to 13,000 square feet, quite a big big additions, but we were operating with all these departments here in 2025

We're doing questions right now. That is a question. That wasn't a question.

Okay, I have one last question, which is the apparatus bays. Are you assuming we're keeping those apparatus bays that we have?

But didn't sleepy sleepy hollow did not destroy their bays they kept their bays when they redid the and their their bays were from the same era and the same size so I just want to be very clear they there are actual projects going on in the Ross Valley fire department where they didn't demolish the bays they didn't expand the bays they kept the bays as they were and they use them today in their project. They only eliminated the residential and redid the residential because they used the constraints that they had. And so I really encourage us in this process to realize it's not an unlimited wea

And I just want to follow up on the bays and maybe this is premature. given your timeline. But have you considered whether the bays need to be elevated out of the floodplain?

So I know tonight is our opportunity to give you input and feedback. But I would like to know which of these plans, which do you think is the best one based on the assumptions that you've been using?

Okay, so let me just ask you tonight, what exact feedback do you want from us?

Okay, any, Elizabeth? Shouldn't we also be looking tonight at the question that's come up, do we really want to keep trying to put this entire full program into this site, or should we consider what tradeoffs we might make to keep everything in one building and not phase? That's not really sort of on the table right now, it seems like. You've been given a program and you're trying to fit that program into the site, but I don't think we've had a chance yet to talk about, well, if we want to keep the site more or less as it is, and it may be just as one building, a one-time construction, where c

And you've been given a much bigger program than I think we have right now. And so it's not fitting. And with the council and the community haven't really talked about that yet. Understood.

I think it would be helpful to hear what community members think about where should we move. Do we make some inquiries about the program before we settle on a study plan? Or, you know, I would be interested in what community members think about this.

That's the next section, public comment. Assuming nobody has any more questions.

So with the, there was in the CAC plan, there was blocking showing different square footage for each of the departments. Did you look at that? Yes. Okay. But then you were told the direction was go with what Mary McGrath and the previous studies that were done by KPA for the square footage and not acknowledge what the CAC did. Is that correct? Mayor Mrakas, Okay, and then, did you look at sleepy hollow and we will wear that we just that the Ross Valley fire just did it. Mayor Mrakas, Really, you didn't look at that.

Mayor Mrakas, Okay, so if we asked you to look at that and what they designed and how they fit because even without the fire chiefs yeah we know he was a part of that redo we could use what they had done there to inform what we could do here. City Council Chambers, Is that a fair yeah approach absolutely Okay, thank you.

City Council Chambers, fairfax station 21 is also undergoing a pretty significant remodel so that's probably another another place to look yeah one of the question.

City Council Chambers, Is the speaking of the base, are we talking about the same size fire engine going forward as what we have now, or is there something different.

City Council Chambers, Okay, so we'll open it up for public comment, if you would come to the podium and announce your name and then make your public comment.

Anyone else in the chamber for public comment? Wayne?

approve it approve for the parcel tax would would have to pay for it that's my question thank you anybody else in the chamber anyone online zach no one online mayor okay so we'll bring it back for discussion

Discussion well listening to of the speakers that came up it I have a question so can I ask a question I'm going to ask the staff. So given that there's talk about the fire station in the plan or not in the plan, so what is the value of evaluating the Civic Center concept without a fire station? What's the value of doing that?

Okay. So I have a couple of comments. I mean, one is I don't understand where staff got the idea that we shouldn't, that we should be looking at a no fire station option. I thought the whole point of this was there are differences of opinion. Friends presented something plausible in December and January, and then the CAC presented a plan, and the council unanimously endorsed it, supported it, and it had a fire station, and it was never decided how the operations would be funded, but the entire council agreed that this CAC plan brings the community together, works for everyone, there's an optio

OK. Well, I do support phasing. I think phasing in this case is particularly good. You know, we really do have to keep in mind the paramedics and making sure that that space is available by January 20, 29. So and I think phasing might help in terms of where staff work. I'm not sure how, like plant study too, I'm not sure how that's going to look and is it going to be as beautiful and will we be as proud of it as we were at that meeting several months ago when we all loved the concept. I would agree that I think it's worth looking at Sleepy Hollow and Fairfax. I think it would be worth it for G

I'm the mayor, you go ahead, I'll be last.

Whatever you say. I would say the first thing is this is just a total failure of leadership. The fact that we're here at this point after we had come together with a plan to include a fire station, it's every meeting is some attempt to undermine the will of the people. And the people want their fire station. There's no doubt about it, and we'll know that in November. And I don't even know who is directing the staff. To do these things, it makes no sense whatsoever when we've already said we are trying to solve this puzzle of keeping our fire station and using the current facilities. So I'm sor

You know I don't think this is failed leadership at all I think the staff has been working really hard with Gensler I think there's an opportunity for everyone to sharpen their pencil not just on fire. City Council Chambers, And I agree, we made a commitment, we need to have space, an option for a fire station. City Council Chambers, that's our commitment that's what we agreed to on April 29 that's what we agreed to on may 6 when we. City Council Chambers, When we did the resolution to amend the facilities master plan, so we need to abide by that agreement and you know, keep the peace in town

So something that I'd like to be also included is you mentioned that the paramedics have this contract. It was all based on a completely different master plan I'm sorry I I missed that first part you said paramedics we have a a contract with them that refers to a previous master plan that we're redoing no it doesn't exist it it states and I want to correct David Kelly said it was 2050 square feet the lease agreement is 2150 square feet Yeah so what I would love as a part of this is we that was based on the facility's master plan that does not exist anymore that was where they took that number

be talking often about the entire project and ensure that can include the paramedic place. I mean, I think that it's been a challenge sometimes to get the building project on the agenda and have public comment, and yet the more times we speak about it, the more public comment, the more we deliberate back and forth. I think the closer we are to getting to where the community and the Council want to go. So I think we should, I mean, we should keep having meetings, though they're difficult. We should be sure there's public input. And if, you know, Julie, you mentioned sharpening our pencils, and

I'm really worried about the paramedics. I'm worried about the delivery of the facility by January 1, 2029. We all sat here and watched Krista negotiate with other people. And by the time the lease was negotiated, it was on version 27. And we know that a week before the paramedic authority board was going to meet, Ken Field said, oh, will house the paramedics for a dollar. And somehow all eight members of that paramedic authority board agreed that they would stay here and pay us $75,000 a year to be here in a new facility. And I am really leery of breaching that contract and opening up those i

I feel like we need to agendize it, I guess, to talk about it.

I don't think Elizabeth agreed to agendize it now.

I mean, I think it should be agendized in the context of our space consideration because if there needs to be a minor tweak to the way it's laid out or to the size, I think then we go to the RVPA board and say, look, we have changed our overall plan and we'd like to make some minor changes that we think still leave a beautiful facility. I mean, I don't think that that's, if they leave because of that, I mean, they're gonna leave as soon as they move in. I mean, that doesn't make any sense that a minor change means that we've lost the paramedics. It's also important to know that, I mean, even a

I'm not quite sure when, but I support agendizing.

Because to be very clear, the lease, if you read it, refers to the KPA master facilities plan. That plan doesn't exist anymore. So no matter what you may believe this lease is, it doesn't exist. That plan doesn't exist. We're changing it. So we have to obviously let them know what our new plan is and discuss it with them regardless, because that plan that references over and over doesn't exist.

We may not need much in the way it changes. I mean, maybe it's fine the way it is. It could be. I'm open to considering it. But that plan doesn't exist is the point.

I guess I would prefer to discuss the paramedic space as an agenda item as part of this overall, you know, space planning that's going on rather than putting a separate agenda item about the paramedic facility lease at this point in time. I think it's premature.

Mayor Mrakas, So I support that if we don't have a constraint saying when we come back oh well, we have to put 2150 because that's what's in the lease agreement. Mayor Mrakas, So that's that's the little chicken and the egg, then we have to agenda is it and talk about it, because I don't believe that that's what the least says the least says it's kpa. something similar to the KPA facilities master plan, which doesn't exist anymore. So we have to come up with a new plan. So we can agendize it or not. But we have to this is something that has to change.

Right, so Krista Krista said that, just to be clear, I didn't Krista said, we need to agendize this, we need to talk about this, if you change the square footage, she didn't quite say that.

What? What did you say? I said that sounds fine to me. Okay, great. Okay. I think that's great. Thank you. Any other comments since it's almost been two hours? Okay. Thank you all for being here.