Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon. It's 1 p.m. We like to start on time around here. So we're going to call the meeting to order. And of this City of Santa Barbara Planning Commission, I've got to remember what city I'm in. for Thursday, September 3rd. And Ms. Common, can you please give us a roll call?

Thank you. We'll move on to preliminary matters. Do we have any requests for continuances, withdrawals, postponements, or addition of ex-agenda items?

Okay, excellent. So then we'll move on to review and consideration and action of the following draft planning commission meetings, minutes, and resolutions. August 13th planning commission minutes, and we also had a resolution on Hot Springs Road, and then we'll also... move August 20th Planning Commission minutes. But before we do that, Ms. Carmen, do we have any comments from members of the public on the minutes?

Terrific. So why don't we break the minutes up? Let's start with August 13th Planning Commission minutes and the resolution from August 13th for 1 Hot Springs Road. Are there any comments on the minutes?

Yes, Mr. Chair. I abstain from this. I wasn't here at that meeting.

Okay. Okay, does somebody want to move the minutes and the resolution? I'll move. I'll second. Okay. Give a roll call, please.

Thank you. Mr. Chair, that isn't an abstention. I wasn't here, so I don't vote abstain pro or con. I just wasn't here. I'm not included in that count. Thank you.

It would be an abstention. It's an abstention. It's an abstention.

I... Well, he didn't vote on it, and he wasn't present.

We have these little Robert's Rules of Order differences, but thank you. Okay, thank you, legal counsel.

Let's move on to the August 20th Planning Commission minutes, and any comments on these minutes? I know you were here for that. Did you want to move those minutes?

Yes, I would love to move those minutes. Thank you. Okay.

Who would like to second that? I'll second. Okay. Can we have a roll call, please?

Thank you. Thank you. So let's move on at this time for public comment for items not on the agenda today, but under the Planning Commission agenda. jurisdiction. Do you have any comments in the public? Did I get that word out right? I think I did.

Okay, thank you. So we can move on to the item of the day, 33 East Canamadillo Street, Liberero Theater. This is discretionary applications under consideration for the Planning Commission to hear today. One's an exception to the height limits to allow a community benefit project to exceed the 45-foot height limit. And then we have a development permit to allow the construction of 9,957 square feet of net new non-residential development. And also, we may need to make the finding that a CEQA determination that the project is exempt from further environmental review. So I think I covered that. Wh

Okay, thank you, Ms. Ernest. So now we're going to call the applicant up and we're going to allow the applicant to have up to 20 minutes, and then we'll ask Commissioner Butler, who's here, thank you for coming from HLC, if you want to comment after we hear from the applicant.

So would everyone like to come up and introduce yourself?

And if you need to, we'll give you up to 20 minutes.

Okay, you guys are finished. So you have two minutes and 45 seconds left in case you need it later on for rebuttal. So this time I'm going to call up Commissioner Butler from HLC. Would you like to comment? And I know you will. We worked together for a lot of years. And also, can you maybe incorporate into what you're going to say about the Paseo a little bit and talk about that? Thank you. Keith Butler.

Thank you. I'm going to ask you a question, though. Is there a donor wall now, or is that something being proposed to have a donor wall? That's proposed. Proposed. Where is that being proposed for? Inside the courtyard. Inside the courtyard. Correct.

the new entrance into the facility. Okay, thank you. And one other thing, what about the gates? They put some gates in. I call it an alleyway, but I'm from New York, but if you don't want to call it Briseo, but they put some gates in. What did HLC think about the gates themselves? I know you asked us, we'll talk about operational later.

Do you have a comment, Commissioner Waller?

Yes, I just wanted to talk about the gates for a minute. Thank you, Commissioner Butler, for being here. Um, did you have any discussion about, I noticed in the minutes that it said that you wanted, um, PC to weigh in on the gates. Um, did you have any discussion about, or recommendations from your commission as to how you felt the gates should be operated?

Thank you for that answer. Okay, so did you have a question? I think at this point, thank you very much. I just wanted to have us ask questions now in case you don't want to stay for the whole meeting, but you are definitely welcome to. Thank you. Okay, so at this point, we're going to turn to public comment, please.

Thank you, Ms. Common. So now we'll close public comments, and we're going to move on to Commissioner questions first. and then we'll get the comments and we'll start with, oh, it's a nice surprise, Commissioner Balke, you're first. I'll go first. I don't know how that worked, but anyway. Your name came up.

Okay, it's all good. A couple of questions. I'm trying to figure out who's the right person. It primarily deals with historic preservation. Is there a historian in the room? Do you have your person here for that or... Not, okay, I'll just ask these questions and the right person can come up to the podium. Is the Libero on the National Register or is it just on the city's landmark status? Does the city know that? Does anybody know that?

Okay, thank you. Okay, this is probably to Mr. Shields. And I presume this is how the city, we use the Secretary of Interior's standards for design review for city landmarks and the state would also require that. Could Mr. Shields come up and outline sort of those distinctions you made between, because this goes back to my history, which is one of the things I did in the very first part of my career was manage the Old Town Historic District, the Plaza Historic District in Orange, which was on the National Register. and did the work to create the second largest historic district in California,

Chair Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna start with mr. Ernest first just going I want to thank you for the revised conditions of approval. You really have saved me a lot of time asking questions about those. I just have a couple other questions on those, on the revised ones. There was a condition in there, and I didn't see it this time, and I want to make sure it's not there, to consolidate the two stormwater reports into one. That's gone now?

Okay, okay. I would make a comment that I just don't think we should be creating extra work for applicants since it's two different stormwater done at two different times, but unless there's a really good reason. And then Let me go through this.

Oh, okay. So on page four of the new conditions of approval, there's a facility use fee agreement. And I'm just trying to familiarize myself with this. Some of these things seem vague to me. I know you didn't write them. And it basically talks about will require full compensation to city through a facility use fee agreement, including assessed costs that may not be listed in the downtown parking fee resolution. Well, where are they listed and how is that decided?

Can we name downtown parking then instead of it will be worked out through the city? If downtown parking is going to work it out, I imagine the manager of downtown parking will be responsible for that. Is that correct?

Thank you. Um, I just think that would be good. Okay. And then I, this is another one and I'm getting picky, but I, I'm just, I would really like us to get more specific in these. So we're not having applicants going all over the place. Well, I thought this guy was doing it. No, this department does it, um, on page six. After certificate of occupancy is granted, all stormwater treatment improvements installed will be subject to water quality testing by city staff to ensure they are performing as designed and operating in compliance with city stormwater MS4 permit. Okay. Who is city staff in th

Okay. I would appreciate that. Just so applicant knows where they need to go for this or who they need to ask. And then on page 10, and I'm sorry I didn't get this to you before because this didn't come in until yesterday afternoon, or I didn't read it until yesterday, actually this morning. On page 10 of the C of A under F, well, before F in It says a final report on archaeological monitoring shall be submitted to the city. And then you go down to F3, and it says the same thing again. So that's just a repeat. I think that's a repeat.

Oh, okay. I wanted to ask, that's all I have for you, Ms. Ernest. Thank you very much. So I wanted to ask the landscape architect, I'm sorry I didn't get your name. There you are, yeah. Are you doing any permeable pavement in the project?

You're not? No. Okay, thank you. So you're not... Not considering that for... Not in terms of stormwater improvements. You can come up if you want.

Okay. Okay. That's great. Thank you. Okay, and then my, okay, and I'd like Ms. Clark to come up, please, thank you. Oh, I should have asked Mr. Shields where the swimming pool is, but I forgot. Ms. Clark, I wanted to ask you about the gates. Yes. So what is your recommendation? Since we're asked to give HLC our thoughts on the gates, what do you feel is the right thing to do about the gate closure?

And, okay, so you have a different approach, I guess, than HLC, who wanted them closed only when you have private, or who suggested some member, some commissioner suggested that closed during private events. So what happens when you are not, you're not open, so you talked about, safety of staff. So if you don't have any staff there, you know, and you're not open, why can't they be open?

Have you had, have there been problems? There have. There have. And are these documented by the police department or?

I appreciate it and that's all I have mr. Chair. Thank you.

Chair a Couple there's a I'll just go through my list. There's a walk drain and floor drain, walk drain on the west side of the main building between you guys and the El Centro building as you walk down this discussed open corridor, paseo, whatever. Where does that go? I mean, where does that drain drain to? Because drainage is a big issue with you guys. So I'm curious, is it being reconstituted in some way? And it also catches the roof drip. of the old central building in that pathway. So I'm curious about that.

Okay. It is on your property, actually. It's on your property.

Okay. But this one is not in the plans to reconnect it in any way. Okay. Thank you. This may seem to go back to what my esteemed colleague, Ms. Wiscombe, just referred to as getting into the weeds, but I have been involved in some design discussions about several buildings in town where the issue of hand-troweled corners as opposed to steel-troweled corners will create more of an Adobe look. And you were describing how the architecture is going to work. Are those corners, is that exterior surface, is the intention to give them a hand-troweled look like old Adobe really has? And my point, the o

OK, because it's surprising. As you know, it's surprising how windows and doors and corners give the building its feel, even to people who don't know what they're talking about.

Thank you. And while I have you at the mic, if you would answer another question for me. I, have you given any thought to a historical plaque?

To go somewhere. And I say that, you know, you guys missed a couple things. Like you said you're across the street from the. Julia. Julia. You're also across the street from the Cota Knox house. And the Cota Knox house was built by Mr. Libero. I don't know if you know that. But his mother-in-law, Miss Coda, got her house wiped out when we laid out the Haley Street grid. And so he said he'd build her another one. So that little brick thing right across from your driveway, he built. And I think you also know, we mentioned it on site, that it isn't just a building. I mean, the first fiesta was ce

Well, and it gives it some depth, the building. Insofar as the plantings, are they seedless olives?

Okay. Yes. And the bougainvillea, because there's so many people coming and going around that thing, is it a thornless bougainvillea?

Okay, so I would suggest that also. Thank you very much.

Well, that is an interesting twist. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have no other comments. See where you take it? Direction? Okay, I actually have a question for you. And actually, did you ever get your pool on top of the Canary Hotel?

Well, let me tell you, this guy was, Commissioner Bonwell was on this commission back then.

Way back then when, yeah, we were asking for that. Yeah. Very briefly, there was a prohibition against that whole floor being used because it exceeded the height limitations. And so there was a draft in the Planning Commission Conditions of Approval said conditions of approval now lost to history. So they just go up there and have parties now willy-nilly because nobody remembers the original one.

You're going to get me in trouble with the city of Journey. Okay, anyway, so I do have a question as long as you're up here. It has to do with the new building on the roof. Is there a parapet around the whole exterior?

Is that counted toward the height, the six feet? Excuse me one more time? Is the six feet counted toward the height of the building?

Yeah, the city does count that. From another city, I always say, which was a little different, we didn't count parapets as part of the height. It was almost like a projection.

Thank you. Okay, so we're going to turn to Commissioner Balke again.

I had one question I sort of forgotten. The subject's come up, which is stormwater. I understand that stormwater is very, very hard to deal with, especially in downtown. What is your plan and how are you going to meet our are in regional water quality control boards. Very, very strict standards.

That's probably the most logical place for it.

Okay, so in your case, you actually have a spot for it, so that's the whole thing with downtown. A lot of properties have no spot for such things. And so, okay, just wanted to know how you're going to handle it.

Thanks for your patience. Oh, of course. Um, I want to talk about the gates again. Can you talk about the hours that you'd like on the gates being closed?

Um, talk about the hours that I like or what, what is your preferred hours of closure on the gates?

Okay. So they'd be open... most Saturdays as well.

Somewhat related. Was there any wise or was there any talk or thought about putting another gate where the yellow brick road is right now, where the Paseo essentially is and, If not, why not?

Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Those are my questions. Thank you.

I think that's why we were asking what your preference would be. You said it is a private Paseo or whatever you want to call it, and that's why we were really asking what your preference would be for the hours. I think we probably would put them probably in the conditions of approval here. Is that?

Because they're the ones who actually came up with the concern and wanted our opinion on that. Okay. And as far as landscaping goes, I know we've talked about landscaping a little bit, but that goes back to HLC also for the final approval. Okay. So at this time, I think we'll move on to comments. From commissioners, we'll start with Commissioner Barnwell.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am 100% in support of this in every category. Insofar as that hot topic of that pathway, that's private property, right? And there hasn't been any establishment of a public easement through that. And when you speak of it being an attractive nuisance, I have much, not a little, but much personal experience with walking down there and seeing people just spending the night, et cetera. And I agree with you. I also would send to the HLC that I think it should be open during business hours, and the rest of the time it's not, if that is the preference of the operator. And that

Okay. Thank you. Um, did the city administrator want to say something? I have a city administrator as a speaker. I guess they're busy talking. So we're going to move on to Commissioner Bauke in the meantime.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. First off, I definitely support the project, and I would like to thank Mr. Shields and the entire design team of threading the needle, as I call it, between the Secretary's standards the HLC's requirements and standards and finding that thing that looks like it fits but isn't a copy. And I think he did a great job. And as I got more and more into the details, more of these things were done better than I expected. So I definitely want to commend you for that. I'd also like to commend the folks at the HLC because, I mean, saw your project a number of times and they provided

Thank you. I thought that was the policy. That's why I brought that up, that we could It's not a recommendation. We can make a condition of that when the time comes.

Mr. Chair, since that came up, I didn't know we were going to get into that. I definitely support basically the theory of basically hours of operation as to when those gates should be open. Do you have a preference of hours? The hours would be the hours of operation.

Hours of operation, okay. Well, that's a general way of stating it. That's a good way.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm really excited about this project. I think it's really wonderful and there's a lot going on downtown and it's pretty exciting. I definitely support the idea that Commissioner Barnwell brought up of the historical plaque and also I think the donor wall, but I think they should both be done with HLC input. We're not designers up here and I think that that's That's where they belong. But I think both of those are great additions. And just on comments on the gates, I support the business hour concept that Ms. Clark provided. I think that's the way to go. And Commissioner

So thank you Thank You Commissioner Peterson Thank You chair.

I absolutely support this project. I think it's beautiful and the addition complements the building, I think, very well and almost balances it out. I'm not an architect, but in many ways, and control for saying this, the north side of Libero, it's barren, and so when you look at the renderings, the windows there and how it steps down makes it look more complete. I think it's beautiful. I am uneasy with the loss of the alley in New York or the Paseo here. And so I understand, yeah, I support the hours of operation. I understand this is private property. I'll go along with what seems to be a maj

So I get to say something now, right? When you chair in the meeting, you don't have to say a lot because you're running the meeting. And this is such a wonderful project. I mean, it's like a love fest here. I think it's a great project, and I definitely support it, and I guess Paseo is going to be any place you want to make them in the city. There's so many, as we were discussing. You're going to put the gate after, because when you go through the alley, Paseo, I'll call it, you go through it, you'll first come to the entrance into the parking lot when you're coming from Cana Medillo and you'r

Yes. I'd like to move approval based on the findings set forth on page 12 and 13 of the staff report, findings A, B, C, and the CEQA exemption.

One second. Could you put that up, please, on the screen? I think we'll have that in front of us. I think that was at the end of your presentation.

There we go. Go ahead. Is there another slide, too?

The findings are A, B, and C are set forth in the staff report on page 12 and 13. along with the required discretionary actions as set forth on this slide. With the following modifications that the conditions of approval be revised to be reflected as set forth in the September 2nd, 2026 set of conditions with the modifications as expressed by Commissioner Wiscombe. with the hours of operations for the gates to be When the facility is operating I'll second the motion.

I think a commissioner was gonna beat you. Oh sure. Sorry Okay. Do you agree with the motion? Do you have anything you want to add?

No, I don't think we need to add the thornless bougainvillea I think you know that we don't need to get that picky I I think that covers everything. The thing is, are our comments going to be included? Because I think a lot of us talked about the historical plaque and the donor wall, and I would like to see HLC review those things. That would be a comment that I think most of my fellow commissioners would agree with.

Yes, absolutely. Anything else? Otherwise, we'll take a vote after. Do you have a comment, Commissioner?

Not to add, but there is, I personally feel there is something being lost by a gate closure at night, and I just want to put that on the record, that I feel, yeah, we are losing an essential Paseo, but I understand the reasoning for it, but so much HLC, I'm balancing it in my head.

Okay, great. Thank you for that comment. Are we ready to vote, or do you have something else?

I just wanted to say to staff, I wanted to back up Ms. my esteemed colleague Ms. Wiscombe's comment about adding the Creeks Commission as being the group that was going to monitor these things. I think it always helps these reports when there's an identity associated with those otherwise loose, loosey-goosey, you know, assertions. So I'm glad you're doing that. Thank you.

Okay, we're going to go for a vote now, but I do want to thank staff for all the work you've done on this, Ms. Earnest, and staff, and also the applicant. So thank you, and we look forward to seeing this built in the near future.

Yes, just go ahead. I failed to thank Ms. Ernest for all her hard work, and that's on me, my bad. But thank you so much for everything you did and for the revised conditions of approval. I think that made them more flexible and made it much easier for the applicant, which is what we're striving for. Thank you. Okay, great.

So if we all remember the motion, I know we had a first and a second. Do you want to do a roll call, please, Ms. Conley?

Thank you. Okay. Okay, so now we're gonna move on to the, I guess the administrative portion of the agenda today. Committee and liaison reports. I have one actually from the staff hearing officer meeting yesterday that I do wanna, I think there's something really important took place at that meeting that I wanna report on. So. It was a very lengthy meeting. It was almost three hours of meeting. There were four items. I'll talk about the first two first. Tess Harris is the steering hearing officer. Two items, I'm going to mention them because within 10 calendar days, they can be appealed to the

Mr. Chair, is that the Presidio Springs?

Okay. So that's Kitty Corner from the old Tino's Market there, the Italian market, just to place it for everybody so they know where that is. Yeah. Yeah. And it comes all the way to Garden Street.

So, all right. Thank you very much. Did they talk about the community? There's a community meeting hall in there. Did all of that get included in the discussion?

Yes. Yes. And they're going to, there's outreach to the, uh, to the senior community there. There, there is out, they are, they're out, they're doing outreach and, and I, I, and there were some speakers, uh, who lived there and I, I thought it was, um, As far as the hearing went, I thought everything was covered very well. I'll just leave it at that. I don't think we should talk about it too much more, though. It could come before us. We don't know. I have one more question, if I may.

Was there a discussion about the historical component of that property? Not too much. Because that's the first spring. That's where they got their first water when they came to Santa Barbara.

That's why it's called that. Okay, thank you very much. Moving on now to, are there any other, are there any other reports? Maybe someday someone will surprise us and come up with a report. So any other, is there any discussion of subcommittee workshops today? Okay, otherwise, I guess we're going to be adjourned. Everybody have a wonderful Labor Day weekend. And there's no meeting next week on the 10th. But on the 17th, we're meeting at 1230 for a lunch meeting. And then 3 o'clock, we have an item coming before us. Okay, thank you. Bye.