Planning Board - Regular Meeting

You're much more, I'm still on a learning curve on this. I learn well, but I'm on a learning curve.

Morning, everybody. Happy Friday. Morning. Call the planning board meeting to order, please. Daisy, would you call the roll? member Finkel member Hogan member Ferringer vice chair DeFlois member Henson member Jensen chair Bailey I'm here would everyone please rise and join me for the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank you. Next item is approval of the agenda. Anyone have any comments, changes? Mary, did you guys want to modify something on this?

Anyone have any thoughts on that? Your call. Can we get a show of hands who's here for some of the new business items? And old business? I'm assuming there are more. OK, not a lot of hands. Well, I mean, I would entertain a motion from anyone on the board who wants to make any changes. Or a motion at all. No motions for the agenda? I'll make a motion. We can approve it as suggested by staff. We can move the new business in front of the old business.

All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? All right. Next item is a time-certain item. We'll come back to that in a few minutes. Mary, next meeting date.

All right. I will not be here for that meeting. I have a wedding to attend out of country, or out of the state, rather. I believe Hayden will be here for that meeting. All right. Approval of the minutes? Anyone have any comments? Changes on either one? I just have one nitpick on the July 31st minutes. There was a comment in there talking about an August 1st meeting, and it should just be changed to August 7th. I believe. And I would entertain a motion from anybody who wants to make one.

All right. And was, okay. That was for the July 31st minutes. Correct. Yeah. And so you want another motion for the August 7th minutes? Anyone have any comments, changes? If not, I'd entertain a motion.

All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? All right. Staff communications, I know you touched on what's scheduled for the next meeting. Mary, did you have anything else to add? No, sir. OK. Anyone on the board have any questions for staff at the time? OK. We have one minute, so I don't know if you want to move on to new business and at least read something into the record. And then we can pause and go back to citizen comment.

Yeah, there was an awkward silence. I made a motion. There was a second.

Thank you. So can we put a pause in this for one moment, and we'll go back to the time-certain item of the agenda. So this is public comment. Any items that are not on today's agenda, members of the public could get up and speak on anything that is not on today's agenda. And is there anybody in the audience who would like to do so? All right. Seeing no one, we will close that item and back to our business.

Site visit, no communication. Site visit, no communication.

Thank you, Mary Anyone on the board have any questions?

OK. Thank you. Anything else from the board? Do we want to hear from the applicant?

David, did you want to chime in while he's looking for that?

SITE VISIT, NO COMMUNICATION. SITE VISIT, NO COMMUNICATION.

SITE VISIT, BRIEF PHONE CALL WITH SOMEONE ON THE APPLICANT'S TEAM. SITE VISIT, NO COMMUNICATION.

So you've provided for grease traps. Is there a restaurant?

OK. And are there limitations for the amount of time? How should I say this? Is there a limit? to how long someone can stay in one of these units written into this so that it would not be considered to be a residence.

So if we approve this and it's not specifically stated, somebody could theoretically, once we approve it, stay for three months?

Okay. What I guess I'm saying is there has to be a measurement specifically. Does anybody else see what I'm saying?

Yeah. Yeah, I didn't see that one coming. I want to go on the record. First off, I think this is a fantastic project for that part of our community. It's a great asset having that down there, being a guy who's out of water all the time. I'm uncomfortable. I'm just looking at this as a hotel, a motel, whatever you want to call it. And it's the best of my ability. I don't think we have limited the Marriott, the Hilton, the Beach House, Old Marco Inn, any of these other places If this is a business and somebody wants to bring their boat down and pay the cost of staying in this place for two month

Yeah, I mean, residential use isn't consistent with our comp plan, right?

And we as a city don't really have a measure. I mean, you opined 30 days, but we don't have a measure on what constitutes residential versus non-residential. You know, at the city council meeting, right, back in 23, you know, Mr. Walker got up and he said, hey, and... I'm probably going to get it wrong, but something along the lines of, hey, listen, if a family lives here on Marco, they own one of these units, they use it for an investment, and their family comes down for Christmas and they want to put them up there for two weeks, is that residential? And I'm not asking for an answer, but it's

Yeah. But I was asking you, and I guess we're talking to you and David as far as our side of things before we hear from them.

Right. I mean, I'll echo what Jeff said. I mean, just from looking at it, I mean, it certainly looks like a nice development. I can see that, you know, people would use it.

Right. Could I ask a question? And this might be a David question, and then the applicant might chime in as well. But, you know, so if I understood the process correctly, there was a request for an official interpretation of a code. It went to Dan. Dan made the interpretation. The applicant didn't agree with that interpretation, so there was an appeal. The appeal went to council. The 5-2 vote happened. Some of the provisions of our code have expiration dates, like variances, conditional uses, things like that. Is there an expiration date for this ruling, or is it just it lasts forever?

Hypothetically, they get an approval. They get entitlements for this. There's nothing that prevents them from selling it. And that entitlement, I guess you'd call it, it runs with the land at this point, is what you're saying? Correct. OK. OK. Did you have another question for Mary?

Well, and I guess maybe it's just semantics, but I mean, right, when you say if they have a use, a conditional use that they want to operate, then they would come back in front of us. They would come back. If there's a use that's allowed by right, they would not have to come back in front of us, right?

Is that where you're going with that? I mean, that 30-passenger boat, that could be a shelling boat. They run you out to Kais Island, or they run you down to Cape Romano, and you walk around and pick up shells for the day, and you come back to the hotel. I mean, that's conceptually, hypothetically, right?

Mary, I don't have in front of me, what is the total number of parking spaces that in this development. Do you have a number?

So if we've got 45 rooms, let's say one car per room, and then employees and staff, the boats, there's no boats being stored there, right? Correct. So there wouldn't be any. I mean, you can't really say if someone had a, and I think the shelling thing is a great idea, you know, white horse key and panther key and all that. So if someone had a shelling boat there, we would assume a lot of it would be for the people who've rented rooms as, you know, Hotel rooms, but if you had a dozen people show up to get on a boat, it sounds like there's sufficient spaces.

As Brent brings up, I mean, it's a good point. Obviously, you have people parking on the right-of-way up and down. But it sounds like with that number of spaces, they should.

So this was once Moran's, and it was once a Marina, and it's just now going to be a newer version and bigger and better. So it's something that was there before.

It was known as Moran's Barge Marina. And it had a restaurant and boat slips. And I actually was there at the restaurant, because I've been here for a really long time. And I believe that, according to what I discovered, that the gas and diesel fuel tanks were removed in 2005. And then it was marketed for sale in 2016 to 2018. So this is something that was there previously.

I remember, Joan, with the sunken boats out in the back roads. That place was a disaster. It was.

It went to decay. And it's great that this is happening. I'm delighted to see that it's happening, too.

All right. Applicant? You want to hear from the applicant?

Anyone else have questions for the applicant? Yeah, thanks, Norm, for using the current data. That was one of my questions about whether or not we were using current data. So thank you for doing that. Gosh, no one else has questions, huh? So this is probably just sort of me blabbing into the universe. But we talked about... Marco Beach Ocean Resort and Old Marco Inn. And again, going back to the fact that this property is called out in our comp plan, those parcels per our comp plan allow either residential or commercial, correct? We've got village commercial. We've got resort residential. And

Absolutely, but it does allow both, whereas this parcel specifically does not allow residential.

Yeah, and I think... You know, bad contractors give good contractors a bad name, right? You've got developers in the past who have approved something. So you look at realtors that have listed some of these units for sale, Marco Beach Ocean Resort, Old Marco Inn and Suites, and in the listing it talks about, you know, you can rent it, you can live in it. And so that concept, right, to your point, perhaps, and I don't know all the specifics, but perhaps these were given entitlements to higher density by virtue of being a hotel. They've now sort of morphed into this weird... Both. Mixed. Right. M

Purely, as far as I know, that- And that was a hotel at some point, wasn't it?

This may be a question for the city. This may be a question for you, Bob. Sorry, I know you keep sitting down, but... You'll get your steps in. So my understanding of condo law, and you might know this better too, Brad, but to amend your condo docs would take a two-thirds majority, I believe, in the state of Florida. And so the reason I bring that up, if it's correct, is not that I'm so much concerned about the developer, Mr. Walker. He builds this, has every intent to honor the commitments to the city. How do... How does Mr. Walker or the hotel MANAGEMENT GROUP, OWNERSHIP GROUP, WHATEVER YOU

It's all right. It's pretty cold in here. I keep thinking I should get up and do laps.

Jeff. I just want to make a comment on this, Bob. I fully believe in what you're saying about being a hotel. Because my thought process is, financially, it's a much better investment to have it as a hotel year round. But we've been beating this horse for quite a while. And I'm amazed that the city didn't let this be a condo development back in the early 2000s. A mile down the road, you have Stevens Landing, which, with the exception of a restaurant, is a condominium complex with docks. I fully believe this is going to be a hotel complex, but I don't know what the negative problem would be if t

Yeah, I mean, the internet is great and horrible. So on the internet, you guys have a wonderful website. And I'm assuming you've seen the website, right? I'm almost never on the internet. I have not seen it. Well, then you're smarter than me. There are several places on the website. It talks about this exclusive curated collection of just, in one place it says 42, in another place it says 45, residences. And so I'm trying to make it as politely clear as I can that there's a couple things that give me personally some heartburn about this. I think if this were a timeshare, if this were a hotel,

I don't know that we could put that in our code at this point, could we?

I know. Well, you know sometimes I don't listen to you and Mary. I know, and that's fine.

I think what we're all concerned with is that usually we're the advisor and we send something off to the council, and we are the decider in this issue, and so thus I think we're being pretty careful on these questions that we're asking. Understood. You all agree with that? That's why we're in the weeds.

Yeah, I mean, we could just sit here in silence for a few minutes. You know, why don't we take citizen comment before we do a motion? Is there anyone? I know we do have a registered speaker. If there are other speakers that would like to speak after that gentleman, you're welcome to do so. If you come up to state your name, you'll have four minutes. But, Mr. Woodworth, you have the opportunity to speak. Yep. Yes, sir.

Thank you. Well, let's go through public comment first, if we could. Is there anybody else in the public who would like to comment on this? Yes, ma'am. Ms. Foster.

Thank you Is there anybody else in the public who'd like to comment All right, seeing nobody, we'll close public comment.

To the point that there might be some improvements required, I did talk with Jeff Poteet, and I was led to believe that there might be some Waterline sewer lines something they have to go to that property and if that's the case those costs would be borne by the developer In full is that correct?

Thank you. Mr. Mulhare, one other question I had, and I just don't recall this, but I know at the council appeal and then earlier today you did reference You know, you've got a long history here in the area. You were part of the comp plan. You said, if I heard you correctly, you were part of the, when this language, this carve-out language was put into the Marco Island comprehensive plan? Yes, I was the consultant, yep. And so do you have any context on why this, I mean, we've got one parcel that has a special call-out in our comprehensive plan?

So a couple more questions for staff, Mary, if it's okay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in this packet, we have some things that I'm not really accustomed to seeing as far as the notes from the plans examiner, the building code issues, things like that. We don't generally get that far into the weeds with this stuff?

And so if someone were to make a motion, You're looking for someone to make a motion with all of the findings and conditions as well as including the building code issues? Okay. And it's possible I missed it. I apologize. But a lot of our findings and conditions, we include consistency with the comprehensive plan, and I didn't see that in here. I mean, is that something that would be added if someone were making a motion?

Yeah, I just think from a process standpoint, it's something that we do pretty commonly though, isn't it?

OK. One other question I had, I apologize, Bob. I'll just keep you going all morning. The boat slips, are those going to be for sale? Will they be available for sale? Will any of them be available for sale?

Would they be part of the condo association? And this is where I don't really have the legal understanding to sort of figure this out. But would those be members of the board if they own condominium slips versus members of the board or the association, I apologize, who own suites? So you might have suite owners, slip owners.

So will some of them be transient slips then?

So if somebody wanted to bring a boat in there to go to your restaurant?

Yes. Yeah, the submerged land lease didn't allow for liveaboards. Yes.

All right. What's next? And I'm sort of asking this question just to put it on the record. Board makes a motion, and there's a vote for this or against this, the two paths that this could go. What does that look like for the applicant and for residents?

All right. Anyone feel like making a motion?

So let me speak to that. Do you mind if I speak to that real quick? So I think your question becomes more of a process question. And if I'm sitting in your chair asking your question, What's next? So you disagree with that assessment that there are uses that are allowed by code. If this were to get approved as an SDP, one of the conditions in here is that it must comply with all of the codes within Chapter 30. So then they do a plan, it goes to the city, the city's going to review it, and they're going to review it based on their interpretation. So that's where I'm getting hung up. How do we h

I have a suggestion real quick if it's okay. Sure. I know you want to talk, but what if as a condition of their application process they have to submit all of the NAICS codes? Because then there's a method for you to say, here's what they're proposing, here's where it is in the code, or here's where it's not.

And to me, maybe I'm oversimplifying this, but to me this seems like it's not a big ask. I don't know. So let me put it on you. I mean, if the planning board made a motion, motion was seconded, and one of the conditions was such that when the applicant comes forward with their permit application, they just further specify and NAICS uses to ensure.

Again, it's kind of like this morning we talked about the variance, right? Or the easement, right? We might be adding one sentence that is totally useless, but if it assuages somebody's concerns and it adds a little bit of accountability, I don't know. It's not the worst thing in the world. I have no issue with that.

Yes, sir. OK. I am going to make a motion. And Brad, I may be misunderstanding where you're going with the Marina thing, because I don't have your legal background. I respect you for that. My views when I see these things come in front of me is one of the questions I ask myself is, what is the value to the community in general? And when I get into this conversation about the use of the marina for charter boats and tour boats and this and that, Goodland, in the 30-some years I've been here, I've seen some good developments down there. But in essence, there's a really nice county boat ramp and a

And you don't have any desire to add the NAICS?

Well, what I'm seeing is the city, to me, from what I've heard from David and Mary, has a lot of guardrails in place already with this thing, and I just don't see the need to do that. So at this point, my...

It may help you get a majority vote if you're trying to go in a certain direction. Not that anyone can guarantee that, but...

David, what was going to be your add-on?

All right. So at this point, let's do that. I'll make a motion we improve the site development plan with the 13 conditions that the city's requesting. I will second.

I'm trying to do. Yeah. Thank you. That's the fine tuning that I was looking for there that I couldn't put together.

And were you also including the building code issues as part of the findings as whatever recommendation?

Okay. Sorry, I did not print the resolution. That's okay. I got the staff report, so I'm trying to save my paper.

Right. 13, right? 13 plus 1. Right. Yeah. Yes. There you go. And so you would agree to that?

Okay. So we have a motion. We have a second. Anything else from the board? All right. Daisy, would you call the roll, please?

I am going to vote no, but the item passes. Thank you, everyone. All right. We're going to party real quick.

Do we want to take a five-minute break for everyone, please? Okay, so let's recess for five minutes, please. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Next item on our agenda, just a discussion item, is that correct? Mary? Yes. Sherry? OK. And so where do you want to start off with this?

Mary, from a process standpoint, are we still following the right process with this? We're still driving down the road. We're not off-roading or going the wrong way or anything?

So the list of buildings that you gave us, that was for reference purposes only. That was not going to be part of a

Okay, yeah, so that list will not be a part of anything. Perfect. Where I lost a little bit of sleep about this was we make this change, or we suggest this change, and let's take a building that does not involve me picking on Joey, because I pick on Joey all the time, right? Let's look at the old Marco building. 1093 bald eagle if i'm correct right that's where zaza's restaurant is okay so we make a change in the land development code per your request council approves it office space parking goes down what does that do to the ability of the restaurant to add seats if it if it creates additiona

the other uses should be parked appropriately. Yes. Right? The city has the parking matrix. They have the Calusas and all that stuff. I know. Yes, you are correct. He's in my head, so it's fine. So if it changes, right, then that's my concern. The Caldwell Banker building, I don't know that I – conceptually have an issue with that, but again, you look at Zaza's, you look at South Seas Plaza, you look at Sand Dollar Plaza, you know, there's a lot of these, the Chamber of Commerce Plaza, where there is a restaurant component, and so I wonder what that does when you... Yeah, I mean, to be very cl

And so I don't know that I have a suggestion, but I'm putting out a concern that I may be the only person who has, but I don't know.

Absolutely I understand some of the context with you know clients who are trying to sell properties who can't because of parking issues and other places, you know give or take 25% of these buildings have a food or a restaurant component. So if there's an easy way to solve the problem for the 75% that don't, and I understand Mary's point that a restaurant could come in down the road and... We don't want to throw the alligator out with the bathwater. That's a great phrase.

I mean, does the board have any comments?

Can we have Mary draw up the ordinances and then move forward from there?

Do we have any citizens who want to comment on this?

All right. So it sounds like we might have a consensus from the board to give you some direction, right? I'm taking those as stated. Okay. No, it's just a discussion item. We don't need a motion or anything. We've got consensus. Okay. Okay, so moving on then. Board communications, anything from the board? Okay, if not, I would entertain a motion to adjourn. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? All right, we're adjourned. Thank you, everyone. Have a great weekend.