City Commission - Regular Meeting

Welcome, welcome. Thank you very, very much. Oh, we need a couple more minutes.

We don't have all the materials yet. Hey, welcome everyone. Today is August 31st. It is 317 p.m. And we're here for a budget workshop discussion. Mr. City Clerk, if you would, please call the roll.

I'm here. Thank you very much. And also on the dais with us is Lisa Truong, our Chief Financial Officer and Assistant City Manager. Thank you so much for joining us. Today we're going to review the budget for fiscal year 2026. 2027 is recommended by staff. And we also have a package of information regarding Amendment 3. Mr. City Attorney, if we could, Let's start off the meeting. We've never had one quite like this before. We've had many budget workshops before, but we've never had one quite like this one. Could you please begin the discussion and issue the special rules that we have for today

So we have to be very careful, commissioners, how we treat this information to keep our questions factual and to rise above any possible allegation here that we are either favoring or disfavoring or advocating for or against the measure that's going to be on the ballot because the state has made it illegal for us as city and local officials to do that. They are, of course, free to do that, correct, Mr. City Attorney? And state officials are free to do that as well. It's just the local officials, is that correct, that are prohibited from having?

And for that reason, lamentably, even though our city charter does not call for public participation in budget workshops or any workshops, today we will not be, and I know that there are several members of the public who are here, we will not be taking a public comment today. There will be ample opportunity for people to speak up at the podium of the people when we have our budget workshops prior to adoption. But this is a special meeting. And in the abundance of caution, in order to keep any allegation from arising that we are advocating either for or against any measure, the only voices you

Mr. Dodge, before you continue, could you, or maybe Ms. Chong, if you prefer, Whenever we see this list, and we've seen this list in every budget that I've been part of in the last 22 years, people walk away saying, well, I don't understand. You have $596 million. But not listed under these codes is property tax. And so it creates a... a difficulty for people to understand between how much we collect in property tax and how much the total budget is and why money from other parts of the budget can't be used for different parts of, say, funding that is supported by property tax. Could you just s

If you could speak into the mic a little bit better, thank you.

So when a Pembroke Pines resident is reviewing this 596 and they see all these line items, we are not able to use, for example, budget code 504 or budget code 201 or budget code 127 to fund things that are in the property tax line item under 001. Is that correct?

So in other words, if we were to lower the millage rate that you're proposing from 5.917, excuse me, 5.9197 to 4.9197, we would have to come up with about $20 million worth of cuts. Is that correct?

Are you able to go back, let's say, 15 years? I know that we're going back some years here, but it's the 11th consecutive year of aggregate millage reduction, which is pretty profound. But are we able to go back further in time, if residents should ask, so that they could see a longer trend line of what the millage rate has been?

So this is basically a preview. This isn't the first budget hearing. This is a preview of what the budget's going to be.

Dodge, if I can interrupt you. So, City Attorney, just so that we're clear, there were two statutes. One of them was the... One of them was the... the vote to put this on the ballot. And then the other one that started this year was to begin reviewing budgets for a 10% or whatever. Is this presentation in satisfaction of both?

Does anyone wish to be heard on the budget? I see some hands. We'll start with the vice mayor.

I wanted to thank the manager, because we had a long meeting especially when it comes to graphics. The most interesting, and I've seen this one before, the general fund 10-year millage rate history, that's wonderful. But for folks in government, we all understand it. To me, more powerful images are not only the following slide, which is general fund aggregate millage rates and taxable value comparison to top 10 Broward cities, but also in this book, which I'm thrilled to read probably tonight and tomorrow, the page 20 and 21. Because working in communications for my 21-year career, Many times,

Yeah. I don't have a book. It wasn't provided to me.

Is this the PDF that I asked you to... Okay. Yes, the same book. Okay.

Well, I didn't know what this presentation was going to be tonight. Okay. I didn't have my questions answered that I had submitted. I know staff is working on it. And I look forward to seeing that on Wednesday, so I can be prepared on Thursday. Correct. Okay, so 21, I just need, because I don't have the book, and I want to follow the Vice Mayor.

I'm talking about page 20, so it says. Okay, so I want to. Look at a community, at the top it says community profile comparison to local cities, 2026, 2027. Got it. I'm starting there, but I'm also going to reference the next page. But that's the kind of information that I think is important. Oftentimes through no fault of our own, and I'm not going to speak for Commissioner Rodriguez, but being a comms professional herself, I'm sure she has thoughts as well. Sometimes our city gets grouped with potentially other neighboring cities in this county or elsewhere. as having unreasonably high milla

And now my eyes are starting to challenge me.

We have cities listed, Coral Springs, Fort Lauderdale, Hollywood, Miramar, Pembroke Pines, Pompano Beach, and Sunrise. You have their populations and their general fund expense budgets. This is also critical because it shows that you get a pretty good deal living in the city of Pembroke Pines. Those are just my comments. Mayor, back to you.

Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner Schwartz.

Commissioner, City Manager Dodge, how much money was set aside for commissioner town halls?

That was a different response. I had six months ago Well, it costs money to have a district to town hall.

Town hall meeting yeah, yeah if district commissioners want to like engage I think Commissioner I can't hear the same magic.

Yeah, I recall you saying that there was an expense to that. Now you're saying there isn't one.

How much money is set aside for my colleagues to have outreach meetings? Are you setting aside $2,000, $5,000?

Constituent engagement. If we want to turn the lights on and have a gathering of First Amendment exchange.

Commissioner, the city manager said that any expenses along those lines would be attached to the city commission budget. I didn't hear that. Yes, I heard it. So I'm just letting you know.

Maybe I didn't hear you because I couldn't hear everything he was saying. So is it under the commissioner budget is the question. Mayor, why are you answering for him? I'd like to hear from the city manager, not my mayor. Okay. Okay.

Are town hall meetings funded at any expense that might be associated, funded from the commission budget?

OF COURSE, IF WE ASKED FOR CURTAINS OR GREEN COLUMNS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THERE WOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL EXPENSE, RIGHT? OH, ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. GO RIGHT AHEAD.

SO, SENIOR MANAGER, CAN YOU FIND FOR THIS COMING THURSDAY, CAN YOU FIND A I guess a line item in the budget that we can look at, we can count on?

Thank you. The remaining questions I'll be receiving from administration on Wednesday, so I'll reserve my time for that to review.

Thank you very much. I took a very hard look at this budget, as I do every year and as I have every year that I've been here. Pembroke Pines is considered one of the leading communities in the United States in which to live and raise a family to business, retire, recreate, or enjoy. We are a beautiful community with excellent infrastructure, a lot of natural beauty. We have A quality schools. We have a very forward real estate market. The number one concern among realtors in Pembroke Pines is not enough inventory. There are many more people willing to move and wanting to move into Pembroke Pin

I think that's a point well taken. Mr. Dodge, is there a way that we can put together something that, you know, a sample trim notice or a sample tax bill that shows people, you may pay this, but this is what we get here in Pembroke Pines? We can do that as a slide.

Anything else? Mayor, quickly. Yes, sir. The manager mentioned the $70-something million in savings to residents. That's $70-something million to taxpayers because we have a commercial contribution and we have a residential contribution to our general fund. So it's anyone who pays taxes within Pembroke Pines benefited from the $70-plus million savings in the function sourcing. Is that accurate?

If possible, can we break down the residential contribution to our budget through property taxes?

Anything else on the 27 budget? OK, moving on to the next portion of the presentation. Mr. Dodge.

Ms. Dodge, I have a couple of questions for you. So on your slide number four.

So you project that in year one, the increase of the homestead property tax from the current to $150,000... will generate a revenue loss to the city of $18 million and change. Is that correct? And then in year two, when the Homestead exemption increases to $250, the loss will be an additional $32 million or a total of $32 million for the two years?

OK. So if all homestead property tax is eliminated in your third chart, the reduction is $51 million, basically. Is that right?

OK. But in chart I can't find it exactly. But somewhere here you said, so in year one, when the homestead goes up to $150,000? Yes, Mayor. There will still be property tax payable to the city for any property whose assessed value is above $150,000. They'll just pay it on the balance. Is that right?

So if your property was assessed for taxes at 160, you would pay the millage against the remaining $10,000 in values, right? Is that right?

Okay. Similarly, in year two, when it goes up to 250, if your property is currently property tax assessed at more than 250, you will pay on that balance. But if your property is assessed at less than 250, then you will pay nothing. Is that correct?

Are you guys following? So then, what things could a homeowner do to hold down their assessed value? Mr. Dodge, would you hold off on, for example, expanding? doing certain repairs or doing certain maintenance improvements or adding, I don't know, a pergola to your home or putting in a pool or that kind of thing, are there things that homeowners can do to sort of slow down what their assessed value would be?

So without any way advocating for or against it, one of the strategies that homeowners could use to contain how much they'd pay is to manage very carefully how much they contribute to the taxable value of their own property by not doing certain improvements that they might otherwise do. OK. And the city of Pembroke Pines also passed, I believe, a second homestead exemption for seniors. And I think we also passed one for disabled veterans.

So would that be added? No. Or would that be part of? All right, so that special benefit would go away, Mr. City Attorney, or we don't know?

No, what I'm saying is, let's say I'm Mrs. Jones and I'm a widow, or I, I, I took advantage of a second homestead exemption, which this city provided many, many residents are, or Mrs. Jones might also be a, a widow and a, a veteran. And she comes in and said, wait a minute. I don't want 150. I want I want $200,000 because I'm a veteran and also a widow. Do they get the $200,000? Or does the passage of the city's additional homesteads in the past get wiped away? We don't know. I don't know that answer, Mayor.

But if you weren't a senior or you weren't a veteran, then you only got the $25,000. No, I think you still get it.

It's $50,000 for all of us except for the school board. We've been up here for a very long time as elected officials. We all benefit from a $50,000 exemption. If you're a homeowner, there's additional widows. It's $500. You have military veterans who are disabled. They get a reduction. It's all taken off of the taxable value, not the assessed value. Let's make sure we're not projecting a possibility of what could be. I'm not projecting anything. I'm asking staff a question. Allow me to finish. Talk about projections. We can only talk about facts. Thank you.

I'm asking a question. Please, please. Well, you're out of order now. I'm asking a question of staff. My question is, this commission passed certain additional homestead exemptions. And my question very simply is, do they get added to the state's promulgated 150 or to the state's promulgated 250, or are they assumed as part of the 150 or 250? Yes, no, I don't know. You don't know.

OK, we have to ask that question because I don't know either. And I'm not exactly sure how that works into this. But I think that we should anticipate questions from people who have those additional exemptions that they might be entitled to more than the $150,000 or to the $250,000. And frankly, I think that under any set of circumstances, whatever a taxpayer is entitled to, they should get it. So I'm asking the question. I don't know the answer. All right.

Because otherwise, the senior who is a, a widow or the senior who is a taxpayer who is a veteran gets no special exemption over and above what everyone else would get. So my question is whether or not how that applies. And I'm not sure that I've heard the answer to that question. And professional staff is saying they don't know. And I would ask them to inquire about that question. Mr. Dodge, you said to me in a previous meeting, and it's possible that I misheard you, sir, because we're following this, but I thought you had said that if all of property, well, first of all, let me ask, Mr. City

So it's possible that the ballot question language and the bill itself don't completely align. Nonetheless, it's coming before us in November. I'm not here to quibble about that. I'm here to ask, is the legislature, if they wish to, capable under the language in the bill of eliminating all homestead property tax?

And would that include the school exemption? So in other words, let's say that they read the bill to mean, no, the school exemption was really for only the first two years, but we have the authority under the bill to eliminate all homestead property tax. Would that be something that they could decide to do?

So they have, so it's your legal opinion that under the current language of the bill, they have the authority to eliminate all homestead property tax?

And Mr. Dodge, if they were to eliminate all homestead property tax, I thought you had said to me in our previous conversations that the impact to the city would be about $60 million, though here I only see about $50 million.

Well, I guess, I don't know. Through you to the CFO, Ms. Chong, have you calculated what the total amount of homestead property value? In other words, if we got zero in homestead property value, what would that amount be?

Yeah, what would the difference be? In other words, what would the shortfall be if Pembroke Pines was deprived of all homestead property value?

That was going to be a... Because I thought the 50 million was only to 250 of homestead exemptions.

Now, there are cities where that coincidence wouldn't happen. I'm sure. Cities with much higher values. But in Pembroke Pines, what you're saying is the 250 basically amounts to no homestead property tax collection for the city government.

My question is, After the 250, there will still be homestead property taxes coming into the city. Are you saying that they're de minimis?

Oh, so the number would grow to 79 million?

I must not be explaining this right. So under your scenario, after $250,000 in homestead property tax exemption, we lose a total of about $50 million. It's $32 million, you're saying? Yes, $32 million. Okay. So it's 30 because it's 18 the first year and 30. So these are not cumulative numbers. Now I'm following. Okay. I've never seen this chart before. That's why I'm asking. Okay. Okay. So if we lost all of property, a homestead property tax, it would be $50 million. Yes, sir. At that point, if we lost all of $50 million and we increased no taxes and we increased no fees, would we, Mr. Dodge,

I'm being very patient because sometimes the hardest questions to answer are the very simplest ones. If we lose the... After the 250 is done and we are in the hole for $32 million.

OK. Point of order, please. What is your point of order? OK. The city attorney. Yes, sir. What is your point of order? Allow me, sir. Go ahead. OK. City Attorney, I am uncomfortable with projections and assumptions of who may lose their job and who may not. I am uncomfortable hearing. Your point of order is overruled. I'm going to challenge the chair. I will challenge the chair at this point.

Is there a second? Is there a second? It dies for lack of a second. Sir, you are out of order. Sir, you are out of order. Thank you. Your point of order is rejected. So let me go back to the comment that I was making. So at the point that the homestead property tax amount is removed from this budget my question to you is Mr. Dodge without increasing taxes without increasing fees relying only on cuts are you able to run this government are you able to make payroll in police are you able to make payroll in ambulance are you able to make payroll in parks or Well, let's just take the police and th

Is it 74? Because then I'm going to ask you, what is the police payroll that's attributed to the operating expenses that are attributable to property tax? Those are the two numbers that I need.

And it would be reduced by $32 million. So if you take $32 off $112, you're left with $80, right?

So that 80 million would have to stretch still into 133. Otherwise, you have to cut police and fire because you've cut everything else out, right?

OK, so just to review, the manager has said that the combined total for operations for the rescue and police is $132 million, and that 112 is what the baseline is currently calling for. And if you take 32 out of that, you've got $80 million left. You with me, Ms. Dodge? And that 82 million somehow has to cover the 133. Is that correct? Did I follow that right?

So that's why I tried to pinpoint my question. What is the ad valorem contribution to rescue and police?

My question is only ad valorem that goes into rescue and police.

Okay, so we have to back that out. So how much is the fire assessment?

Maybe this is getting to where I'm simply looking for the amount of money that ad valorem, total ad valorem, pays into rescue and policing. OK. So if you can get me that number,

That will answer my question. Mayor, if I could be helpful. We have 62.

No, I don't need you to be helpful. I need her to be helpful. Thank you. We have 62% of the budget.

Yes, I understand all that. Is fire and police. Thank you. OK, we have a fire assessment fee of $400. Thank you. And we have the number of accounts to get billed. Lisa, please. Yes, sir. Just back it up.

Right. I thought it was about 30. So 30 for rescue, let's just call it 30. And police is how much?

$20 million. So you're saying that if we have $20 million in ad valorem for police and $30 million in ad valorem for rescue, we can cover that budget with the other revenues that are coming in that are untouched? Yes. I don't see how. I don't see how that number, you all need to gather together and figure out that calculation for me. I am trying to determine whether the 80 million that's left after the 32 comes off the 112 is enough to take care of both the rescue portion of fire and police operating costs. That's what I need you to work your calculation up on. I don't need it right now, but t

Over the summer, I reviewed some of staff's budget projections and the impacts of Amendment 3. Staff worked extremely hard putting that work product together. In accordance with, and city attorney helped me out, FEC 106 dot something, any information gathered using public funds whether it be the printing these things out or keeping the lights on, can only be based on verifiable factual information. 106 also precludes government from making projections or assumptions of what ifs. It can only be based upon actual information that our finance director, Ms. Chung, produced. Mr. City Attorney, do y

Right. And the law was changed in 2022. with respect to how information is what government can and cannot do regarding Amendment 3. So I'm going to be very straightforward. I want to keep myself in this box. I am uncomfortable with the first slide that the city manager produced. because it's based on assumptions. No growth rate, meaning that Marty Kerr's office sees absolutely zero percentage of increase in property values in Broward County. Period. Or at least in Pembroke Pines. A zero increase in property taxes. Now, I don't recall being a resident of this county for 37 years where property

Mr. City Attorney, do you have a problem with the legal presentation of the city manager?

Thank you, City Attorney. And 106.13 is very explicit that the information that is provided to electors and how it's distributed to electors, there are rules that follow that. And this presentation The second one, none of us had an advance copy of it, correct? None of us saw this in advance? Colleagues?

He handed it as soon as we got here. So please make sure, Mr. Dodge, that whatever information is being produced like this, is being captured in identifiable cost so that we're in compliance with 106.113. Mr. Mayor?

Mr. City Attorney, are we even close to out of compliance with the state statutes applicable to the commission as questioned?

OK. So do you see any obstruction in in sharing this with the public at large?

OK. And a follow up for 106.113 specifically, the city of Penrith Pines And all cities in Florida cannot mail this publication out. We cannot email this out to electors. It can only be available in city halls. Is that correct, city attorney?

So if the city commission decided to mail it, we'd be able to do it under the statute?

City attorney, I want you to look at it again. I'm not going to ask you to do your homework. But I want you to take a hard look at the new definition of electors and communication under 106.113. There has been a significant change since the last time this came forward. Without objection. Mr. Mayor?

All I'm saying, Mr. Dodge, with the greatest respect, how you just answered that could have been a footnote in this slide. It was. It was. He said it's there.

It's based on, it's tagged to the current fiscal year. It says it right there.

But that's not how we just answered July 1, 2027.

Okay, thank you. So to be clear, people are entitled to use this material, which is now public record, in their personal capacity without generating any cost to the government free and clear of any of the state's laws.

I think that's a very, very good point. I think that's a point very well taken. And I would encourage anyone in the community or certainly any of us as elected officials, if you have ideas on cost cutting for the city, and this certainly includes our budget committee, the Citizens Budget Council, who, Mr. Dodge, I'm sure, Ms. Chong, I'm sure will be presented this information. Bring that forward. We believe that we are running a lean government here and that we have a history of running a lean government. We covered that point, certainly I did, in the discussion that we had about the fiscal 27

And that's why it's so important. When we go into these budget meetings, that we not get a bunch of grandstanding of, you know what, on second thought, I think we should go ahead and lower the millage by two mills or whatever. Whoever makes that suggestion had better come here with some homework about what they want to cut. Because that's an idea that's way too attractive to say no to unless you've come in empty with no information. It's just rhetoric. or grandstanding, and that's no way to do business. That's just no way to do business. So if somebody has an idea for cost-cutting, bring it fo