City Council - Regular Meeting

It was 109 or not, but the grass seemed to agree with me. It was all brown, so everything's dying. Before we get started with our regular agenda, we are going to first say that Councilmember Stephanie O'Banion is joining us remotely. You can see her on the screen from Santa Fe, New Mexico. I just want to make sure that she can hear us and we can hear her. Can you hear us?

Yes. Yep. We can hear you. All right. Also just going to ask you for your permission that if you were to drop off or lose connection, that we would be able to continue the meeting without you.

All right. Official arm twisting done. She will let us proceed if she has to drop off or if the connection is severed. Also, we're going to do a couple of things first. First is a Pledge of Allegiance led by Councilmember Daniel Booker. That's to the U.S. flag. We will then have the Texas Pledge led by City Clerk Amy Casey. And then John Holmes will give our invocation. So if you would please stand. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Let us pray. Dear Heavenly Father, we just come to you today for guidance, wisdom, help us to serve our community, help us to lead, keep the citizens of this community in mind as we deliberate tonight's events. Please be with those who are fighting fires or serving on EMS or police, those serving abroad and domestically. Help us honor you in all we do. In your name we pray. Amen.

All right. With that, we will call our meeting of August 25th to order at 5.32 p.m. The first item on our agenda is public comments. note on public comments as well as public hearing, which will also have public comments, but on agenda items, this is for non-agenda items. Again, the note is that we have a three minute time limit. Council member Dave Covington is the timekeeper and he will just raise his hand when you have 20 seconds, not 20 minutes, 20 seconds to land the plane. If you don't land the plane, someone will shoot you down. And so anyway, just giving you a warning. on that. So I ha

Thanks for the three minutes you paid for. Yeah, and just for educational purposes, if you go to protest your taxes, you can do that. As Woody said, you're welcome to. We encourage you to make sure you get the right value on your home because that's what's used for the rate that we set. We set the rate, not the appraised value. It's the combined both that sets your bill. And I would also encourage everyone to educate themselves on what we can control in this body is our tax rate and what it has done over the last two decades compared to our neighbors. Once you educate yourself on that, we woul

Right next on the list is our consent agenda items 4 through 10 can be enacted by a single motion. I believe we will be. probably removing one or more of these for separate consideration. I will read them all into the record. And if a council member wishes to remove one, they may do so at the end of reading these. So for the record, item four is adopting the minutes of the July 28th council workshop and the July 28th council meeting. Item five is adopting a resolution canceling the November 10th city council meeting because we are going to the Texas Municipal League meeting. Item 6 is adopting

Okay. Yes, Stephanie, same item. Thank you.

Move we approve items 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10.

A motion and a second to adopt a consent agenda items 4 through 10 without 7 or sans 7. All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed. All right. So, Sam, you want to?

All right. Thank you. Any questions for Sam? Any comments?

The total cost of the project is $85,000. Correct. And so they'll fund the full project, and then we will reimburse those fundings over the next two years. Or they'll wait until the two years and then fund the project.

And then as we move in the next year, we'll provide the two sides of the equation. There's the cost of doing the renovations and then there's the payment that we're making. I think that's the question.

Thank you. Okay. Any other comments or questions?

Sam, was there any discussion about why we would fund 100% of the project for the Bell County Museum?

people through those doors with no fee their lecture series is amazing it's a great resource for us but it's also a little bit of a partnership um especially if there's some collection of hotel motel tax on the other side as well well yeah i

I did just have one more question. In my mind, I thought it was a nonprofit that was running the museum. Is this purely... Run and funded by the Bell County, by just the county? Yes, it's the county operation.

This lies within the TERS boundaries, right?

That seems like it might be a good funding source because you've got city-county partnership funds going into the TERS.

The current motion is to approve the full 85 and Yeah, so I've held my comment. So we've got several things flowing together. And when multiple rivers, bodies of water flow together, there's typically a little turbulence. So that's why you're hearing a little turbulence. I think the number one that I'll start with is there's still a group, I think it's the Belton Women's Club. That's a book club. And they hearken back to the day when they wrote letters to the Carnegie Foundation to allow for us to have a small public library in this small little town. and so we got one of the Carnegie Librarie

I, I intend to vote no on the motion. Um, if the motion fails, I would intend to make another motion to fund the 40,000. Uh, in hopes of maybe going to the territory to look for the other 45,000. I think that could be a good way to to slice the pie here. And if we find the 40,000 tonight. That gets them started on the study and assessment.

So, was that a mail in ballot? Like, are we cheating already?

Are you saying I'm telling you what my intentions are here? uh and it's again it's not that i think the as everybody has said i think the museum is fantastic and i think that uh we can find a way to fund this um but i think uh invoking the partnership from teres would would be probably more meaningful so all right so that's where i'm at everybody loves a good motion to amend the motion just saying can we amend the motion you can all right here we go I make a motion to amend the motion to fund $40,000 in fiscal year 26 only.

Do we have a second? We have a motion to amend the motion to just fund the initial year's portion from Hotel Motel. Any comments or questions on that amendment?

That does not take away what Stephanie said about the caveat of must have a strategic plan.

Yeah, all this does is just change the funding amount from 85 to 40 for this year. Okay. All right. All in favor of the amendment, say aye. Aye. Those opposed? All right. Now we will go back into the amended motion. The amended motion is to... To partially fund the request from the county for 40,000 dollars to allow for the envelope study structural assessment, and that the other funds would come at a later date. Um, and with the caveat that we need to start looking at a tourism strategic plan, any comments or questions about the amended motion.

I have 1 question is there a timeframe on there for. high strategic plan? Does it need to be done by X?

No, I think, honestly, Stephanie, the bully pulpit, the pressure of the council with staff is going to be the time frame. How much pressure do we put? And so I think the fact that it's coming to a council and not a... I think that's probably a decent amount of pressure. So I think that that would be...

I think we're not... The item that we're discussing is not a tourism strategic plan. I think that... The suggestion is about as, uh, about as deep as we can get on. Yeah, that's correct because it's not an agenda timeline. I think we're getting out of that. That's correct.

Yeah, it would have to be published. So it's just a recommendation. Yeah. Okay. All right. Any other comments or questions on our amended motion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed. Right passes unanimously bridge over troubled waters. There we go.

Yeah. So, yeah, y'all get to do some parliamentary procedure with us. You got an amended motion like that. You the bingo parliamentary procedure. You don't get that every day. All right. Items 11 through 500 are going to take a minute. And so we're going to start with 11. We can only do one at a time. 11 is hold a public hearing and consider a zoning change from commercial highway. Thank you guys for coming. We really appreciate it. Zoning change from commercial highway to planned development commercial highway PDCH on approximately one acres located at 217 May Street south of Spring Street on

All right. Thank you, Tina. Before we start jumping into our questions and comments, this is a public hearing, so I would like to close our deliberation and open the floor. If anyone wishes to speak in favor or against this item, now is your chance to use your three minutes that somebody's taxes paid for and discuss this item. If there's no one who wishes to speak. Okay, here we go. Name and address for the record.

Bailey Eichenloff, 510 Creekside Drive, Belden, Texas. I'm the applicant. Instead of, we're not going to be doing six duplexes, we're just going to be doing five. The sixth lot will be taken away from TxDOT or by TxDOT whenever the expansion happens. So I just want to clarify that.

Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak in favor or in opposition to this item? All right. There being none, we will close the floor and reopen deliberations.

I guess before we get that far, has TxDOT finalized their plan? And we know exactly that the layout is going to be for the, we just found out about the jug handle and the back way into central, um,

Yeah, I think that I think honestly, the biggest concern, at least for me, is a lot of times people say about council or political action. It's like, why did they do that? And right now we have a proposal that is not a final design that's taking Popeye's. Asko and Taco Bell, those are underneath the highway. If I look at the jug handle, it's really you can't get two way traffic into the jug handle is only one way traffic that loop that's around. So inside the jug handle, that little teardrop looking thing, I don't think there's going to be much development. I think if you look at the numbers,

We understand. But those are also residences that then they start complaining about all the things. And so typically what you want is multifamily. Like you've got a gas station. I don't know. Let's say along 14, you've got a gas station who wants to put some kind of restaurant or maybe sell alcohol in it. And then you have residences behind them. And even then, you get some people that are upset, even with the buffer. And so I'm just saying, there would be no buffer.

They're pre-existing in Shirttail Bend prior to. There's also an existing Popeyes and an existing Taco Bell that will not be. Sure. Any other comments or questions on the zoning requests?

I just, I share similar concern, not so much about it being duplexes, but throughout this whole process, looking at I 35 and I 14, the only thing that's been consistent is that nothing's been consistent and we still have never gotten a final design. And so I hate for the owner of this property. to go through this and all of a sudden he's got that jug handle going through the middle of the property. Cause we don't know everything tech stock has told us pretty much a month or two later, it changes. And so, um, I'm just concerned as the word you, you know, I feel like it's preliminary. You know,

I think I understand the concerns. I guess I lean toward that liability of what might happen and the necessary due diligence for figuring out what might happen. I feel like that burden lies on the property owner more than it does us. I'm inclined to allow the zoning change with a proceed at your own risk cautionary word there. I don't think that something like this is inconsistent with what's down there and with what's likely coming, but we don't know.

I think ahead of the unknown amount of construction, the unknown final plan, we also allow the Popeyes to go in, the traffic backed up into the access road and blocked for thoroughfare at times. I just think there are too many unknowns for me to approve this now. Start building duplexes at the bottom of a jug handle where it's right next to the road. I mean, you have no idea about flow. How in the world will they get in and out during that process? It's just too early for me.

Yeah, the ingress-egress for everyone in this neighborhood is going to be difficult during construction because every road will be touched. And that's a 10-year plan.

Right Thomas questions or chair would entertain motion.

i'm i'm going to make a motion to approve agenda item 11 with the clarification that it is. 10 five duplex lots 10 total dwelling units.

Second. We have a motion and a second to approve the zoning change with the amendment of five units, ten, or five structures, ten dwelling units. Any comments or questions on the motion? All right. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed? Aye. All right. Passes, I believe, five to two. She voted aye. Stephanie, did you vote aye? Yeah. She voted aye.

All right item 12, hold a public hearing and consider zoning change from plan development, commercial highway to plan development, commercial highway with specific user use permit for a package store on approximately point. 039 acres. That's not very approximate. That seemed pretty exact. 039 acres located at 7379 West us highway 190 suite. 1 0, 1 is Tina.

All right, again, this is a public hearing, so we will close our deliberations and open the floor. If anyone wishes to speak in favor or against this zoning change for this specific use permit for package store.

You now have 3 minutes per individual for or against.

Thank you name and address for the record.

Thank you. Any other comments? All right, there being no other comments on this item, we will close. Mr. Mayor? Oh, I'm sorry.

Thank you. All right. Any others for or against?

Now we will close the floor and reopen deliberations for this item. Council's turn.

I just had a question. Is this a totally separate unit or is there when you go into the gas station access to walk over to it?

But I'll verify the floor plans. Whenever they are connected, it has to be able to be closed off because there's restricted operating hours. um there was some concern from the from the resident next door about um events and car shows and that kind of stuff have have we received any police calls or anything like that with stuff going on we've shared the information with deputy chief for gary and he's here chief would you address that situation

That was my concern after the, the note we received it. car show meetings or groups hang out or whatnot. That would still happen with a liquor store on premises. I would hope it couldn't happen.

Open consumption is illegal. You can't. Yeah, they can't.

I think parking lots included in those places, you can't consume alcoholic beverages in parking lots.

Just timing. I think the complaint was about the loud after hours. I think the concern was when it goes to 1 a.m. in the morning, not with it. And that was the complaint, I think, that came forward, is that they were in violation of our ordinances.

Any other comments, questions, or the chair would entertain a motion.

We have a motion a 2nd to approve item 12. Any other comments before we vote? I will, I will make a comment. I think. Times change. Some of us are old enough to remember. Belton was dry until I was a senior in high school, and so no alcohol. We allowed for alcohol purchase at one point where we allowed for restaurants to do it. We actually had the former pastor from the Church of Christ who actually voted for it. He said, I'd be a hypocrite if I voted against it because I go to Chili's and they serve alcohol there. So anyway, so we've seen a change in the demographic. I think the challenge wit

I've played that game and it's always delayed and it's hard and it is hard. Sorry, Stephanie. I'm sorry.

It's all good. All right. Item 13. Lucky 13. Another public hearing. Hold a public hearing and consider zoning change from Commercial Highway 2 to Office 2 with a specific use permit for a bail bonding agents and services on approximately 0.6 acres located at 3805 South I-35. Ms. Tina.

Again, this being a public hearing, we will close our deliberations. Open the floor if anyone wishes to speak in favor or in opposition to this zoning change. Now is your time. There being no public comments, we will close the floor and reopen deliberations on item.

Okay, we have a motion a 2nd to approve agenda item. 13 has presented any comments or questions. All in favor say, aye, aye, aye. I will slow down.

All right. Passes unanimously. All right. Item 14. Hold a public hearing and consider zoning change from Plan Development Expo PD11 Plan Development Commercial Highway to Plan Development Commercial Highway on approximately 101 acres located at 301 and 551 West Loop 121 and properties on South IH 35 service road. Ms. Tina.

Thank you, Tina. All right, I think put the page. Sorry. It is a public hearing. We will close our deliberations open the floor. If does anyone wish to speak in favor or against this item. There are no comments we will close the floor and we will reopen deliberations in the chair. Entertain a motion or comments or questions since we'll clean up for. I move we provide 14 second motion a 2nd to approve item 14 any other comments or questions before we vote. All in favor say aye. Aye.

All opposed? Passes unanimously. All right, item 15, hold a public hearing and consider a zoning change from light industrial to planned development light industrial on approximately 21 acres located at 702 West Avenue O. Ms. Tina.

All right. Again, this being a public hearing, we will close our deliberations and open the floor. We know this routine now, so anyone who wishes to speak in favor or opposition? It records you so we can transcribe it. So again, name and address.

Any other comments or questions? All right. We will close the floor and reopen council deliberations.

Well, with 120 feet of existing right-of-way, there's plenty of room to do that if it has to be done.

Yeah, just in the nicest way possible, I want to thank the county for getting out of our downtown.

I move to approve this item as presented. We have a motion and a second to approve this item as presented. For those who don't know, the Bell County Engineering Office is in the old bus depot that looks like a little diner downtown Belton. So that will open that up for future retail development. At least that is the hope and the plan. All right. Any other comments or questions? All in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? Passes unanimously. All right. Item 16, consider a final plat for ASCO addition subdivision comprising approximately 19 and a half acres located at 5353 South IH 35. Ms. Tina.

Thanks for staying. move and approve item 16 as we're saying.

Second. We have a motion and a second to approve this item. Tina, could you show us the map really quick? You mentioned about the water and funding and to and through. The blue line is the water line that is existing. Correct. You say to and through. Could you show us the area that would be, you know, Correct. You referred to.

Yeah. Okay. So again, I think that this is one of those things that we discuss again in the partnership category. I think regardless of who would move in here, developing that whole piece of property and taking that water line, it doesn't necessarily help them. They have access, but it does help the property to the north. And so it's a good economic development tool. And I will say all the work that's been done with economic development and with the engineers that we've had and staff, multiple staff members go through these projects to put utilities down this area allows for us to take action.

That passes unanimously. Item 17. Consider a final plat and variance request for the DBI Capital Way Warehouse Development Subdivision comprising 15.3326 acres located at Capital Way and Elm Grove Spur. Ms. Tina.

All right. Thank you, Tina. Um, comments or questions from council.

I'm excited 168,000 square foot of. To all flex space access to have 35 access to have 14 perfect, uh, area for that. Uh, I hope we get more. Uh, really, really am excited about this. I think it's great. Great for community, great, uh, potential employees, uh, and, uh, uh, good, good looking project.

186,000. You got more, John. Yeah. More jobs. And if you wouldn't call Woody, they're going to appraise this.

Call Woody. We're adding to our capital. Thank you for coming to the Belkin. Thank you for doing this project. We are truly excited about it. I know there was some concern about runoff in the area. I know that will be handled. We're going to treat the people right in that area. And I really would like to approve this or recommend approval of this item.

Second. We have a motion and a second to approve this item as presented. Again, on the concept of partnerships, you guys have been great partners. It's really nice to see that you guys took a risk in Belton on initial developments and that it filled up pretty quick and now it's time for new opportunities. This is a really good complimentary space. It's really nice to see Belton grow organically to fill all the different areas within our tax base to allow for businesses to have easy access to 35 to the things that they need in a community that supports them. And so we appreciate those partnersh

That's the best logo right there. No, no, the next one. That one that's on the whiteboard. That's a good logo.

Yeah, so I had the pleasure of serving on the committee. I thought it was really very productive. This is probably the most productive. I mean, we and Stephanie can share with this too, because when her time also on Chamber of Commerce, we've gotten really close a lot of times to unifying a brand around the chamber, around BEDC, around the city belt, and it's just never gone anywhere. This is... this is one that actually landed. So I think I'll just say this about my personality. I don't have an opinion until you ask me. And once I have an opinion, I'm not changing it. And so it's sometimes it

I'll go first, if that's okay, Stephanie. I will contradict you, David. I started with an opinion, and every time we met, I changed my opinion. And I just waffled back and forth between both of them, honestly. Every time they would show a different image, you know, this one with this image or this one with that image. Oh, yeah, I like that. Oh, yeah, I like that. So... I've gone back and forth a lot. Just want to give a sincere thank you to the folks that served on the committee. We had several meetings and lots of time spent together doing this. And like you said, I think we came up with two

Well, I'm sure I'm excited about this. I think I've been pushing for something like this for a couple of years now and a specific marketing plan for our community. And I would love to see either one of those in Texas Highways. It's seven o'clock. Bucket list. Any of those, Texas Country Reporter, any of that stuff. I'm just excited. Really appreciate the committee's work on this. I know there was a lot to it. It took a lot of time. hard to pick. And after seeing the committee's recommendation or go to that may be a little tougher, but so excited to have something to be able to use and really p

You mind putting both of them back up? Yes, sir. So my thoughts when I saw this one, my initial thought when I saw the, I'm going to call it number one and number two, number one on the left, number two on the right. When I saw the first one, it automatically reminded me of the Temple logo because they have a star like that on theirs. And whenever I think of Temple, I don't want Belt and Bullock anything like it. but that's what came to my mind first. I also, you know, when you see the five words you put up there, one of them was nature. I think that's one of the biggest strengths of Belton, a

Yeah, I think it's approaching marketing in the two different ways. Like the Apple brand, it's Apple. Like it's just the Apple. It's an icon. That's it. There are others that are more complimentary where that one's kind of iconic.

I got to go back. The one you had single that's longer, the Visivell and the number two. I really liked that one a lot.

And I don't want to complicate it, but I'll complicate it a little bit. You mentioned this is a Visit Belton effort. This is not the Belton logo. That being said, something like the one on the right, if you go back to the patches.

This, no, yeah, this could be the Belton logo. And the other could be the Visit Belton logo. Or vice versa. Or vice versa. No, I'm just, not to complicate, but... the thing is we we have probably four or five different brands within the city i think ultimately we would probably want to navigate to one and not to have this is the visit belton logo and this is not the visit level yeah i think eventually i think we want to go towards a direction a brand uh family um so i do really like how you're saying do different same you look at the one on the right you know say visit belton and have differen

Yeah, I think the visit one is the stamp that you then work the canvas around. So you're going to have a canvas of a thing, and this will be the stamp on it. So it'll be whatever the scene is. You know, kids playing, or if it's Buck and Bronk, or guitar, barbecue, whatever. This could go where the other ones stand. Well, I think, you know, ultimately designed by committee never works. And so this is not designed by committee. This is a, a, and it actually, it says receive a presentation and consider selecting. It says, consider. I would recommend that we just kind of, if we don't, if you don't

All right. So we'll just go down this row and just all the way and I'll go last.

I may surprise those of you who were in the room with me during the committee stuff. I feel like I was pushing pretty hard for option one during the... Especially the last committee meeting. And I really... What was... What I loved about option one was really like the red background that we were talking about with the guitar behind it, with the long horn behind it. I think that would look great on a billboard, on a banner downtown. But the more I thought about this, option two is, I think, more useful on more things. It can be dropped into a blank space and carry more meaning than option one d

Yeah. With 2, you could go like in a video where it goes through different and then stops on one of the badges. So I think there's a lot of things we could do with 1 and 2. And like I said before, I think 2 stands alone. It's a stronger standalone icon that can capture Belton in a single visual. where number one is very good for our events and street banners and pamphlets. So I think to their point, I don't think we should throw any of this away. I think it's always good to put it in our back pocket. But I also agree. I think two is the direction that I think would allow us to stand out. I wil

It's very antiquated. Nobody sees it or identifies it. descendants of morgan's point yeah but anyway but no i i agree and we have consensus i don't know if we need to vote i think that there was a consensus that we think that number two is the way to go but we also really like elements of one so maybe we can use it for special events or i don't know we don't want to uh yeah do we need to vote all right so okay i'll make a motion for option two as presented with further refinement down the line Second. We have a motion and a second to approve logo concept to any other comments before we put this to bed and we're all team players and we get behind.

All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Right. Passes unanimously. Thank you, guys. That went very well. Thank you, guys. This is, you know, we've talked about 100-year decisions. This is one of those kind of 100-year decisions. I mean, if we get behind it and we go forward and it's strong, I think this will be a 100-year decision. So thank you, guys. All right. Strategic plan. Item 19. Mr. Listie, we were receiving a presentation to invite public input on the strategic plan for this evening.

All right, thank you, Sam. Since we've had lots of questions and comments through the season of this, we'll hold those question comments and allow for public input first. So this also is a public hearing or a public input. Hearing if anyone wishes to speak on any item on the strategic plan, or in general, they may do so at this time again, 3 minutes. Mr Covington will keep the time. I have one person who signed up, but that doesn't mean that we have to limit it to one person. So the person I've signed up is Taryn Burnett. Is it Burnett or Burnett? Okay. Thank you. I know you've written it, but

Thank you. Anyone else wish to address the council on the strategic plan? There being no other public comments, we will close the floor and reopen. We've received the presentation. We've received some public input. Any comments or questions? There are no action items for us to take this evening. We're just taking comments.

You're talking about the strategic plan? No, the term point, just to throw that at staff. I would just say, we all have definitions of words. When you say design... Design to some people means you're designing where you're going to put the asphalt to put the five lane road or four lane with the turn lane. But design in this concept is it's multimodal. People use bicycles, people use feet, people use golf carts. We may want to see a design and a concept for a nature area that can be transversed on a gravel path. That's design. Design is not... Proving what I want to build is determining what mi

Sometimes it's nothing now, and maybe it's something later. To her point, it might be in 5, 10, 15, 20 years. It may change. Any other comments?

I just commented about that back when we were talking about it. When we spoke about it, we basically said we need to get to a point where we actually can make a decision so that your neighborhood either gets a yes or no. And with not having any kind of design, any kind of studies, We really can't sit there and say yes or no. So what we moved forward on was, hey, let's look at the design, see if it's even needed. It might not be, but y'all deserve an answer yes or no. And so that's really what we're trying to get.

Yeah, and part of design is traffic counts and studies, and that's just part of the scope. And again, I think we all have different definitions of the word design, and I think it's a hard word to express.

I do think that part of this, what will happen over the next year with the strategic plan on this specific item is that we will narrow the focus. We will figure out what's... do we think the need is for the space and i think that this time next year you and your neighbors will will feel like there's some clear direction set um so i think that we've got to go through the process and get the data so that we can make an informed decision but yeah and actually timing is good with the pipeline absolutely

which we were able to, with a good stewardship, able to allow us to generate some revenue that we can now use for some of that design that came from external sources. All right. We good right? Thank you. That's item 19 again. No action item required item 20 receive a presentation and discuss how we can take money from our I'm sorry how the proposed amendments for the fiscal year 27 city of Belton fee and rate schedule.

Is it an operation of a sprinkler system?

Yeah, this is to you. Okay. Right now it's just a presentation and discuss. So yeah, put a pin. Yeah. Asterisk.

So question on your with or without fire pump. I'm assuming that if you got just city water that has pressure, we can just use a pressure meter. But if they have a fire pump, we actually, somebody has to pump, kick that on and run it to make sure it gets the pressure that they need. Yes, sir. My only concern is what's our cost to do that? because what it'll be is it'll be, and again, it's, it's $50 versus 150. Anyway, I just, I think we need probably some more info on that one because it is a different, it's not a tomato, tomato. It's totally, it's, you know, tomato and apple.

What's our cost for operating credit cards? What do we pay? If somebody pays with American Express, what do we have to pay?

So we're setting a rate that's lower than our cost. It's essentially about we're about losing money, about about losing money. We're not about making money. We're about losing. Yeah, I think. Yeah, let's break. I think we need to. Yeah, whatever. I think it needs to break. Whatever the highest rate is. We said it assuming everybody will use whatever that. And I think it's more what's the cost, not what do we want to charge? We're just passing that on. That's a great comment there. Thank you.

And I sure would like us to be clear on the utility and use of a credit card. I think it says a dollar fee or maybe just the 2%. I don't know that both of those are included when we make notice about using a credit card for utility reasons.

Tell me how that works. I've got a couple of businesses I'd like to get rid of having to pay those credit card fees as well.

I'm actually against having a credit card fee. I mean, no business is allowed to do it. You build that into the cost. Only governments can actually add a credit card fee.

When I pay invoices, it says if you wish to pay with a credit card, it's going to be 3% more. It's a 3% fee. But people can say it's a cheaper rate to use.

cash but you're not allowed as a business to just say if you're paying with a credit card you pay two percent so you do yeah you can it's gone i know it happens but no it's totally legal anyway but this is just comment anyway so yeah some are for some are against but i'm just i don't think we should do everyone uses credit card now and the majority of people pay in the portal and i just think we need to build in the cost you shouldn't have a separate credit card fee

I have a, I have a, I have utilities, so I don't have to pay the fee. So I save money.

That doesn't get anywhere near our cost, does it?

So before we leave open records, you mentioned we're mandated by the state of $10 per video and $1 per minute.

Okay, that's what I wanted to go to because open records is not just body cameras. If somebody wants to know all the water bills, then that's not body camera.

So, and we can charge a labor fee and a what fee?

20%. Our labor. So if somebody is $80 an hour and 20% of $80 an hour is.

So that's what I'm asking. Is it the cost or is it the charge?

It's 18 an hour, basically. It's max. Well, as we start thinking about unfunded mandates, they're all, this is in the category of an unfunded mandate. We need to, we need to. please put a pin in this so we can address our legislature to allow us to charge a this or actual cost. Like we're not asking for anything other than just cost. It's not a, it's reimbursement. Right. Yes. So, so, okay. So for open records, so there's nothing we can do. So let me ask you this. If we can't change our fee and rate schedule on open records requests, why is it here?

We don't. It's the state. Yeah, we're doing, they're levying it, but it's not, it doesn't require council action. Right?

It would be really good because I will say every game that's played... The person who figures out the real rules, not what the person, like I play games with people and they read the rules the way they interpret them. But if you really read the rules, you find out you can beat them because they're not telling you the whole rules. It would be really nice to know the whole rules because here's where I'm going. The average on that is a worthless number. It's a trend. If you put that in a trend on a spreadsheet and see what's next year going to be based on the current trend from August to or anywa

Yeah. Yeah, they go, yeah, they get the, yeah, they put it on Facebook and get trends. Yeah. Well, we need to think about, like, if, you know, and this legislature may not be saying it, we will charge 10% plus a 50% royalty if it's used publicly. Does anybody say you can't have a royalty? Well, let's slap a royalty on there. I'm just saying, whatever, we need to think about where the rules are, and we need to put a disincentive for people to abuse the system that's outside of just a flat rate. It's just, yeah, anyway. My rant's over. We'll see.

So how can you go back to that? Yeah, I don't understand what that would come out to be like what's What do you change when it comes to the overall cost by doing it that way?

Um, kind of, but I guess what I'm getting at is you're, you're looking at what it was versus what you're saying. You want to go to the materials plus 10% plus equipment. If you take your average job, which I don't even know how you find that, but your average job, how much are you increasing the price of?

They have one of their contractors on Lake Road today installing a meter. Too soon, sorry.

So back to the non-residential rate, as 430, it's capped. It looks like we have citizens that are over 10,000 gallons that are paying more than non-residential commercial users. Are they typically high users of water? Or are these like... I don't know who a non-residential... No, that's all your commercial. But I don't know. Are these high users of water or low users of water?

The reason I say that is it's probably unfair to our citizens that are paying 50% to 70% higher than commercial for using the same amount of water. I see a disparity in the above 2,000 and not having the tiers because... But I don't know the data on how many users. It just seems, it just intuitively feels unfair.

I agree. I mean, you need to, if there's a rock quarry that's, you know, tearing through water, they should be paying a higher rate than someone using 2000 or a car wash or a golf court, whatever, whatever, you know, what you want to say. But I think there should definitely be more tiers in the non-residential.

Well, I will say We'll say that the rate study that was done was probably not the best rate study we've ever done. And because it's not the best rate study, every year that goes on past that study, it becomes more obvious it wasn't very good. And so we did not have a good rate study. And we're seeing right now a compensation of those of us who are trying to keep our grass alive that are now finding ourselves over 10,000 gallons. And a car wash...

It's paying for 30. And it's just, it's wrong. And I think that if we're going to go through rate study, that's good. But we still every year have to approve the rate, whether it was in the rate study or not. Rate study was a good idea or a bad idea. This year's got to be this year's idea.

I just think, and I like Council Member Albanian's leadership and say, hey, we can't continue to pile up on our lowest socioeconomic group with dollars and $10 and $40. We just can't. And I think this is a good thing. Honestly, I think our businesses get revenue for every gallon that they sell in a car wash. They get corresponding revenue for that. They can pay for it.

Can you go back to the meter size? Yeah. I'd be interested to know what increasing the commercial volumetric rate would do to this slide as far as revenue goes.

I don't like option three. Yeah, I like option three. No.

May not be the best plan, but it's a plan.

I also seem to recall that we got a rate study done and then the seven of us rewrote all the results from the rate study that we had. So I do feel like we've sort of set ourselves up for continuing to sing the second verse here.

I think option two is the best option presented. We can try to get to the perfect. We're never going to get to the perfect. Just, I think, on the fairness, you know, it talks about... Everything that is fair is not always right, and everything that is right is not always fair. And so we're getting into that here with water rates, and it depends on how much I pay per month, if I think it's fair or not. And if it's not fair, then obviously it's not right. So that makes sense. I think option two is a really good option to address the fairness from Stephanie's perspective. I think keeping... shavi

and somebody paying six that's all probably all a sprinkler system as well not the domain house line yeah so they've set that up to try to save some money and then they're really getting gabs if they use it yeah the only other thing i'd say is um

Back on the base rate, well, and this, if we go with proposed option two on the volumetric rate, we've tried year after year to keep the lowest user, their costs as low as possible to the point that I think it's been flat for several years now. just going forward, I don't know that it's realistic to expect that to be flat forever. I think at some point, we're going to have to be okay with going up a dollar at a time or whatever it is on that. So, while I think it looks like we can do it this year, I don't think it would be reasonable for the seven of us to expect that that's going to be that w

And if you really want to help folks who need it, those individuals are probably using 2,000 gallons a month. You know, we would own them ourselves and not using a ton of water. So I think going up on the 2,000 to 5,000, instead of trying to lock it in 375, you might have some more flexibility there.

Well, we kind of popcorn that all the way through. Are there any other, now that we've gotten to the end, other comments about the general or specifics?

I just had a couple I was taking notes on. The blocker truck fee, can you, I just don't, is that saying if there's anyone, say they have a flat tire on the side of I-35 and a blocker truck comes, they're paying $300? Okay, what is the blocker truck fee? Insurance. When do people get charged that?

Well, but I'm glad to hear it's not citizens because I would have an issue with that.

The commercial site plan fee that you had, can you go? Yeah. The $150,000 to $1,000, that's a really large increase. What's driving that?

And so this has nothing to do with the size of the project or anything. This is just flat. Anyone that comes for a site plan review, they're getting charged this.

I'm just not a big fan of increasing that.

I mean, I'm not a big fan of commercial. It's a commercial site plan.

I don't know. I don't like increasing fees on businesses.

And then could you go to the new commercial versus new residential per square foot? What is the reasoning for having those two different? Why is commercial getting charged more?

ADA requirement, there's lots more requirements commercial and yeah, there's more inspections and more man hours.

The civil engineering review, how, I mean, is there I mean, it just says actual cost, but can you give us an idea of what that is?

So for just one commercial project, you're paying the new commercial construction fee, you're paying a building plan review, a civil engineering review, a traffic impact review, basic building permit fee. You're paying all that on just one project.

And it also depends on where your street is. If you're downtown Belton and you're not really impacting anything on drainage and you're not impacting roads, you don't need to pay those fees because it's not needed. But if you're at the jug handle, it's going to be. Yeah.

It's hard to do things without there being a few examples of on your average, on X, on Y, your fees are going to go up by X percent of what you're paying now. It's hard for me to make a judgment.

You good? Yeah. One of the items that I saw in there was the parkland dedication fee or the fee in lieu of parkland dedication. We've been at $200 per lot for 20 years. There's a recommendation to go to, was it 250 or 250? Georgetown, I think, is at almost $800 on single family one lot. Killeen's at $1,200 on a single family one lot. I think we're I think we're substantially low on that personally. You know we just adopted a parks master plan that talks about all the all the great parks that we have and ways to improve them. And I don't think that I don't think that the that the goal of increa

I agree. I think it needs to be in some of the discussions that some of us have had. I think one of the challenges, if you go to $10,000, well, then they're just going to dedicate this little quarter of an acre and say, there's your park. And then we have 500 parks that are not useful where And so I think what we need to do, and I'll just use some of the developments that we're seeing down around Miller Heights. We acquired a new school. We're looking at new park there. We've got a lot of the safe routes to school sidewalks that are already going to there. And so I think kind of forcing... the

No, you're good. Well, there's so many. I know. Good work. Thank you. It's a lot of work and I know it's not done. So, appreciate it.

All right, so staff will take these comments. I would suggest anyone who wants to go talk about a particular one that you were interested in, talk through staff about that so they can understand what they're working on. And then you guys will present this back to us at some future date.

So the next time you see it, it will be locked in. So now's the time to discuss with the staff. All right. There being no other comments, Stephanie, anything else? Any parting shots or parting words? I'm sorry.

All right. That's item 20. I don't have an item 21, so we stay in adjourn. 818. Thanks, everyone, who showed up.

Good to see you, Larry. Good to see you, Larry. You just here to observe? This was a fun meeting. That was a doozy. We'll see you next time. We have fun meetings. Yeah.