Art in Public Places Board - Regular Meeting

Thank you very much. Do we have a roll call, please?

I make a motion to accept Christina Cuervo's absence waiver. I'll second.

Thank you. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you. Do we have any minutes to approve?

Thank you. Thank you. Are we changing the order of anything tonight?

I'd like to ask to change one and two to the end, and then we'll discuss.

OK. Please, can someone make a motion to defer item number four?

Is there a reason we're deferring this out of curiosity?

Okay, I make a motion to defer to the next meeting for the ethics refresher.

Thank you. Any second? Second. Thank you very much, Mr. Rodriguez.

It is continued to the next meeting, yes, sorry.

Motion passes. So if there are no other deferrals and we're not changing order, please, can you continue with item number three?

Thank you. Is there anything that you would like to discuss on the annual report? Any comments or any issues? Any items?

I read it, I'm ready to sign it as the chair. Okay, does anyone have any comments on the annual report? No? Annual report in the agenda packet. Okay, if there are no comments, please, can someone please make a motion to accept? Sure. Approve, sorry.

So make a motion to approve AIPP resolution 18740. a resolution of the Art and Public Places Board of the City of Miami, Florida, pursuant to Chapter 62, Article 16 of the Code of the City of Miami, as amended, accepting the Art and Public Places Annual Report for the 2025 calendar year, making findings and providing for an effective date.

Second by Ms. Napoles. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Is it recorded, Florence? Excellent, thank you. All right, I think we can continue with item number five.

What has changed since the last meeting?

So I did meet with Commissioner Gabella, as requested. I met with him a couple weeks ago. Concerning this item, we failed in a way that we try not to. He said he had no prior knowledge of this work before the work had started. And I know we always want to know from the districts. that they approve before we approve, and somehow this didn't happen.

So the commissioner said he knew nothing about this, nothing. What they want to do is, this is only two walls of a four-walled structure. They would just like to go ahead and paint it out the same color as the other two walls. He said they could cover the cost, the district, to paint it out. As far as the replacement, they're not in favor of the mangoes. They don't feel that has any connection to Antonio Maceo. So to go forward, they would like to possibly consider another concept from the artist that does celebrate and commemorate the man.

It seems there's a miscommunication between the PAC member that is appointed by the commissioner and the commissioner's office. And so staff should clarify whatever miscommunication there is between them. Because if you're saying that the PAC knew, but the commissioner didn't know. So there needs to be a communication, not just for this example, but in the future for all projects, that the commissioner is at least aware the commissioner of the district is at least aware of all the items, all the public artworks.

I have a question. Does the commissioner, wherever that work is, always have to sign off on the work? Or isn't that what we do? Like, I'm confused.

So the commissioner got involved because the people in that area didn't like the mural?

But we've always, can't we get some approval from the district before we approve?

I mean, just to, I don't know if an approval from a city commissioner for an artwork. I think a heads up, like, okay, this project is happening in your district. It's a park that's in your district. The PAC that the commissioner appointed and staff, sorry, and the board appointed have, you know, decided on this art, and now it's going to go to the public art board for review and approval. That way, if the commissioner has any objections or anything that's really relevant, they can bring it up. I don't think that... I wouldn't think that the commissioner needs to approve each project before we

Heads up. Maybe a heads up, or at least some...

Just so we don't have this situation again.

I think that what's unique about this situation is that there's a political reference, right? So Antonio Maceo is a Cuban hero, and the park is named after him. The artist who we... commissioned to do this work is a Venezuelan artist, and she used as inspiration for the piece, she used a sculpture, a memorial that exists in Cuba, also honoring Antonio Maceo. When we reviewed it, that seemed logical to us, that there's a memorial that is to him, she used that as inspiration, and hence her artwork. What happened was that at the ribbon cutting, there were members of the community who were persona

I believe the gentleman is coming from the commissioner's office, correct?

Indra, my understanding of the Mangos de Paraguay is that it's a map.

So you're asking for something more representative of action.

So I think in general as a process rule, I think that that's problematic. I think that it is important for the board to have a certain independent authority to avoid censorship issues and other issues that could come up in other scenarios. I think that it's important that the commissioners have good relationships with who they appoint to this board, and that if they are very concerned about the artwork that's going to be installed in their districts, that they remain in contact with their voting representative.

definitely with all the sensitive issue with the Cuban community, we all work in this war without no compensation whatsoever. I think at the time of all of us, it's important. Following what Mrs. Cuervo actually, not was a proposal, but comment in our last meeting, where she said that Every single commissioner should be more interested in what we do here. I think at least, to avoid these mistakes, because it's nothing but a mistake, I think that we should suggest, that's the right word, I think, to the commissioners when a commission, a commissioner is involved within the public art cult, they

But don't we already represent a commission district? Like, isn't that why we're here? So why would we add a person per project if that's already our role?

No, I'm not asking add anybody. I'm asking... that if the commissioner is involved in a particular artist's call, that it comes from the, not the board, but it comes from the Office of the Public Art, that commissioner office should have someone involved, I don't know with your manager office or with us in our meetings until, until the art is approved. Because evidently the PAC either is not capable of what they're choosing or they don't find out what exactly the commissioner office is looking for. I think the more communication we as a board has with the commissioner that is involved in an ar

Thank you. All of the public art process is in the Miami code. It's not really up to this board to transfer the power from this board to the commissioners. The commissioners decided in the Miami code to give the final approval of public art to this board. That was decided by the commissioners of the city of Miami. the code establishes that each commissioner shall nominate one member to this board. District 1, your member is not here today, for example. The commissioner of each district should work together with their board member on the public art board on the public art that's going to be ins

But didn't the artists meet with the commissioner? Yes. And they discussed this latest concept.

So this is the one, we've seen this second proposal. And when was the meeting with the commissioner prior to that? Yes. Okay, so there hasn't been a meeting since this proposal.

That's my point, is that we're not, I mean... We're leaving it to, I don't know who to resolve these things. These are very, these are executive things. Somebody needs to take charge and pick up the phone and call Carola Bravo and get her to a meeting in the city's office and talk to the commissioner's office and coordinate one week, the following week, until it's done. Not bring the same exact thing. This is exactly the same that was before this board last month. We're going to make a decision right now to paint the walls white And that just means that we didn't do our job. One entire month l

Can we ask the commissioner's chief of staff if this could be possible?

Now that we have you here, maybe we can, you know, find a resolution.

So our frustration is that this is what came before us a month ago and we did not vote to, we did not support as a board to remove it because we wanted an option of a replacement. And so our frustration is that a month came back and we still don't have a replacement.

So who will be responsible for meeting from your office with Carola Bravo to come up with a new proposal?

So whose responsibility is it to make this meeting happen? It should not be our board. It needs to either be your staff or your staff. You know, either the commissioner's staff or the Art in Public Places staff.

May I ask, replacing this is going to cost, give or take, between $15,000 and $20,000, what I see there, plus the removal if we do it in two steps.

for this location would cost between $15,000 and $20,000. Is that something that the commissioner's office can contribute with?

That was also something that I asked staff to discuss with the commissioner's office regarding budget for this particular project.

Sorry, just for the record, because the microphone picks it up for the record.

You'll cover the removal, or you'll cover also the replacement? Definitely.

Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. That really takes care of a lot of the complications. I think that now what's required is probably a few meetings with Carola Bravo and some direction.

Indra, based on the process, are you required to do another artist call, or can they continue working with Carola Bravo?

Did she get any feedback on the second concept?

But actually, I wanted to make sure that we understand that I think we should look at a different way of managing this, dealing directly with the commissioner's office. Because some commissioners are very cooperative within our business, but some are not. They don't think it's important. We should make this happen a little bit more smoother. That's my personal opinion.

Thank you, Cristina. No, we had an absence waiver, and so we appreciate it for you coming.

Well, I did give up a seat for you to take off.

Thank you for giving me my absence waiver, but I tried my best.

That's okay. That's okay. Thank you very much. Go ahead.

I think this has to go through the... the same process and the PAC, and it just has to run through the process correctly. Please, yes, no additional comments.

I don't think we need to bring the pack into it. I would love Ms. Bravo to meet with these gentlemen directly and share with them directly her proposals. Like, maybe she could come up with two new proposals. I mean, these gentlemen are really knowledgeable, and I'm sure they could work with her to create a new one. So, yeah, so it wouldn't be erasing an artwork. It would be replacing the artwork by the same artist.

So what I understand that we're going to do here is we're going to approve the removal and... And the next step. And the next step?

Okay, so I would like to make a motion to pass that for... Sorry. AIPP resolution number 18184, which is a resolution of the Art in Public Places Board with attachments pursuant to chapter 62, article 16, entitled Art in Public Places of the Code of City of Miami, Florida, as amended, approving the modification of a public art piece by artist Carola Bravo at Antonio Maceo Park, Newfield Restrooms, located at approximately 5135 Northwest 7th Street. making findings containing severability clause and providing an effective date. And further specifying that the District 1 Commissioner's Office wi

Yeah, I had that question too, I think. Can you repeat your question or clarify your question?

I think what's specific for Juan and I is that it is a modification, not a removal.

By the same artist. The artist is modifying the artwork. Right.

It cannot just be removed and left blank. So I guess my answer would be no. Simply a removal is not approved by this board. Only a replacement is approved by this board.

Yes. She could just paint over it with the new paint.

We're just trying to avoid a prolonged period of time in which there is a blank wall.

Excuse me, apologies Indra. Since the gentlemen are here, and they're from District One as well, if possible, if we could move to item number eight, and then we can circle back in case we need any feedback from them.

Can you go back to the list of the membership of the steering committee? Sure. And my question is how will these people be selected in appointment, more specifically, you know, not the city people, right? So community representative, art community representative, qualified art professionals, how would those people be selected?

And it is the developer who chooses the consultant? And do we already have somebody they've proposed? They're here.

My last question is do we have an idea of the value of the Art in Public Places contribution based on the value of the project?

This master plan covers the soccer component as well? Yes. The entire parcel?

The master plan is the stadium, the administrative buildings for the city, and the public park.

But is this board will be involved in the indoor public art as well? Like, for instance, a hotel, et cetera? No.

Why wouldn't the city administration building be part of the master plan?

You mentioned that the costs are going up constantly. Absolutely right. But what's the latest estimate?

When do you believe we could have some sort of estimate or like a planning for?

And can you go back to the very beginning when you described this whole master plan agreement and the SAP? So is this contemplated in a special area plan that you would do a master plan agreement? Or is this something, explain how we got here because maybe I missed that at the beginning.

Okay, I think that's smart. So I think it's, this makes sense in that sense.

And is the city administration not considered part of the SAP? But it's just been the city's direction to pull it out of this.

And that direction comes from who? It comes from city administration.

Maybe your point, Olga, is like, how do you divvy up between the interior and the exterior? But I guess that's if the exterior would be part of this. Yes.

I mean, I think that part of my questions are because we've been asking, particularly the chair has been asking about this for over a year, kind of, you know, in anticipation of why aren't we getting more information? Why isn't this coming before us? And so already we're seeing this divvying up and things happening that we've been trying to get ahead of to understand. And I think it's hard for us to understand why things are happening in this order. I think it would have made sense to us for it all to have been part of one master plan. So I think precisely because we were trying to say, hey, w

Before a call to action. We specifically said that at the last meeting and then poof, Last week, we got an email that said, call to action has been sent out. And I understand that there was direction for it. But at the same time, like, we have to approve what, you know, what artists will be accepted and the next steps.

So it's like, so I think... Not only that, let me add to that. First of all, I think a master plan is a good idea. I think we should have started there.

We put the cart before the horse, you know, whatever. But last meeting, it was discussed that there was a very high amount for the City of Miami building, and we were alarmed. And we were so alarmed that we requested, I don't know if that's the word, but we said, we gave a directive to staff that you were not to issue a call to artists until you had come before this board again and explained the amount, the reasoning, you know, everything and we could, you know, we could go back and forth. And to say now that, oh, you were in a hurry because it's last minute and so we had to get it done becaus

That's it. That's all we've done. You haven't even explained to us what the project was. That's the whole point. You can't be going out and doing call to artists if this board tells you expressly not to issue a call to artists. I mean, if we had not said anything, I understand. You're moving along. But we did. And so this is like on purpose. This is a willful disregard of what we requested at this board. I don't understand. That was the direction of this board.

And I understand that there's a framework. And so you can advance because that's your framework. But then then there becomes a point, a moment in that framework in which we have to approve. So we can stop it by not voting for it precisely because you have decided to disregard our request to to. modify that process just a little bit, you know, give us information. Like we want to be a part of it and you've decided, nope, we're going to keep going. It's like, well, we can just stop it in its tracks. Like that makes no sense.

But then it's, but the work that you're doing now could potentially be complete waste that gets thrown out. I disagree that doing a call to artists in a format that is not part of a bigger picture Honestly, that is not part of this AIP. I don't know if it's an option, but I'd like to know if it's an option that we require that the building be part of this master plan. Maybe you can answer that.

Any other comments before, I'd like to make a final comment. Any other comments on this item? I think that the, personally in my opinion, I think that the master plan is a very good idea. I think that it's long overdue. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming today and for starting this process. I believe that if If that's the site plan, then it should include all the buildings in the site plan, etc. But really, with staff, we really have to think about this process because, I mean, you know, to disregard really what we've what we've asked you to do in this way. So you just disregarded it. W

It's very difficult for us to do our job when we have to constantly be working to clarify what you're doing. I just want to leave further record. This is not the way to go. You can see that the Council for Freedom Park, you know, it's a good suggestion to include the city building in the master plan. Why is that coming from council? Why is that not coming from our own city staff?

I have another question to city staff. Why is there a separation in the city administration building project between the interior and exterior, and how is that money being split and allocated? Again, there's still so many details that seem strange. My understanding is that the money is a percentage. There isn't a clarification in our rules that say that has to go inside. So where did that happen?

This master plan is for the project. What's the plan for the city building? You guys already have a call to artists out. What's the plan? Well, if you have a call to artists, it means you already have a plan for what you're going to do. What is your plan? We don't know it yet. What's the plan for the city building?

Right. So the plan comes before the call to artists.

I think the challenge for us is we come back to that we feel that we have not approved the plans that are in your call to artists. So we, you know, yeah, that's our challenge.

It doesn't feel like a cohesive project if city staff has already decided to carve out a portion and do whatever they want with it without it being part of a plan or something that's come before this board.

We are so blind to the process. Like, we haven't seen one design, one...

I mean, I haven't seen any designs either. So that's where I was going to go. What's in the call to artists? I mean, what's in the call to artists? What plans are in there that they are actually bidding on without a dollar number?

There is a budget in the call to artists, and there are like five or six areas that are mentioned.

You did exactly, exactly what we didn't want you to do. You can call it that you're trying to do your best, but you did the exact opposite of what we asked you not to do. That's all I can say. So for the record, very bad on city staff. I don't know how many times I have to now say it.

I don't have any further comments. I think that the master plan is a good idea. I would just add that we should include the entire site. That's my point of view. Does anybody else have any further comments?

I think that's a good idea as well. And I think that you can come back with whatever you've already put out. At least you can bring that back and incorporate it as part of this. And you're saying we're not too far along.

I mean, I think it should come back holistically. Yeah, let's come back. I don't want us approving something independently, but I think that this whole master plan makes sense. I like that. I like that it's holistic like that, but I think that this should be incorporated. Now, if you told us there was a critical path, And that's why you had to do what you had to do in terms of doing this, even though I know we did discuss this at our last meeting.

Well, how far along are those construction documents? I mean, are they...

I mean, I don't think that that's going to alter that plan, so I think it should become part of this whole...

I absolutely think it should become part of this. I understand that you're in it. If you want to bring anything to the board next month, and we can certainly discuss it, but, you know, for this item...

I do think that we should see what Indra prepared for this meeting. I think that's... Let me unplug. I don't know if you want to do it now or not, but I do think we should see what she prepared for this meeting.

Well, but what she prepared for this meeting is not relevant to item number eight, because item number eight, they carved it out. So let's decide on item number eight, and then we can leave Indra's presentation for last.

Thank you. I think that makes sense. Thank you. All righty. So I think we're ready to...

Okay, so I make a motion for AIPP resolution number 18869, a resolution of the Art and Public Places Board with attachments pursuant to chapter 62, article 16, entitled Art and Public Places of the Code of the City of Miami, Florida, as amended, authorizing the city manager to negotiate and execute in a form acceptable to the city attorney an agreement between the City of Miami and Miami Freedom Park LLC, the developer, to establish an Art in Public Places Master Plan for Miami Freedom Park, Miami Freedom Park Public Art Master Plan, generally located at 4000 Northwest 14th Street and 1900 sla

I'll second it. Second by Ms. Cuervo. May we have a roll call vote, please?

Ms. Randa, if you don't mind, let's run through the resolution, and then we'll circle back, because I do want to circle back, I think. But let's run through the resolutions first. Please, Indra, can you continue with item number six?

Can I ask a question? Are you done? Done. Two slides ago, you said that the, go before that one. And the one before that, sorry. There, at the bottom, you had asterisk that the project's community engagement activities pending final approval and collaboration from the District 5 Commission Office. But then, in this last slide, you said that she had provided the majority of the funding that represented their approval. So, which...

Okay, so is the community engagement done or that's still pending to be done?

in order to finalize the project? Or it's part?

Okay, I'm just trying to understand how they're intertwined.

I just wanted clarity on that specific issue.

Yes, please. I don't know if he was sworn in. Could you swear him in?

I was asking the question that in one slide she had annotated that the community engagement activity is pending federal approval and collaboration by district five commission office. And then in the last slide she said that the district five commissioner had indicated their support by providing the majority of the funding for this project. So then I asked what's the difference and she pointed out that the community engagement is still ongoing. So she thought you could speak to us about the community engagement and its impact on the completion of this project, but she also indicated that might

Okay, thank you. My interest as a board member here is really knowing that the commission district supports it, and if there's something pending from their office, then I just want to make sure that we're addressing it.

Thank you, and thank you for your work. Thank you, Andrea. I had another question. Is this the final art, this that we're seeing here? Yes? Could you talk to us a little bit about this image and why you selected this?

Actually, I just want to say hello. I'm very happy to see you. Welcome back home.

And where on the building is the mural going? Have we seen that?

This is not a requirement that this building has. This is something that the community wants to put there.

Remember to turn on your microphone. No, no worries.

Actually, this particular commissioner is working so well within the neighborhood programs, not only related to the arts, but I think it's really worth it for us as a board to support this particular commissioner. Thank you, Maria. Thank you.

So it's at the entrance. It's at the entrance. So it's the Hadley Pool. So what's the relationship between Hadley and Dawkins?

Named after Dawkins. How old is the pool complex?

I guess I'm wondering why there wasn't, why there isn't any, if it's a city park, how come there's no art?

I don't have my history book open, but he's somebody very important. There's a park made after him, and he was somebody very active in our city, but I can't remember right now.

So if we look at this project compared to the Antonio Maceo, they're entirely, so everything that this one has, the Maceo did not have in terms of buy-in support. Your presentation tonight, none of that happened with the other.

Well, I think it was a completely different process because it came through the call to artists and the PAC, but when we approved the actual work, there was a presentation about the work.

Right, and I think that the issue with the Maceo was the origins of the design and then...

But it came after, and that's when they... So maybe what you're indicating is it should be in advance, obviously.

in advance of. I mean, this is 100% correct.

And that's why I think we wanted clarification because they asterisked that the community engagement had not been finalized. So that's why we were asking that question at the beginning. But I think your point is a good one, Gary.

Well, also, yeah, because we're putting a lot on Corolla Bravo right now to figure this thing out. And I think that's a lot to put on. Going back to them and say, oh, this is all great. But it's unfair.

To your point, there's lessons from this project to be learned for our other projects, right? The way we communicate with the commissioner, the way the commissioner communicates with their own PAC member and the information that they share, they have to have a communication as well. The PAC member isn't just appointed by the commissioner. It also needs to be in contact with the commissioner's office so that the PAC member can bring to the PAC you know, whatever the commissioner.

And the community engagement point. You know, the Antonio Maceo, there's a whole sort of education component that's gone. It's never been included in that.

Right. So that maybe should have happened first.

Is there a funding shortage for this project at this time?

Do we have discretionary funds that we can contribute to this?

$45,000. That seems very high compared to some of the other projects that we've done.

But the commissioner has approved these expenses? Yes. they're going to fund this from the commissioner of District 5's office? Is that correct?

So it's not 100% donation and the commissioner was stepping in. So we still don't have the funds for this project?

So how are we going to approve a donation? What are we approving? I understand that Mr. Weeks is going to prepare the artwork, but If we still don't have any funds, what's the donation that we're approving?

Out of curiosity, what's the size of that? 10 by 12 feet.

So we're approving the artwork, not the funding?

And if we approve the artwork, the artwork is finished, correct? The artwork is finished? Is the artwork already finished? It's in process. Okay. So will it go up? Do you have an idea of when?

Thank you. Just a comment. The resolution itself, the text, it says approving a public art installation by Marvin Weeks. So yes, it's the approval of the artwork. But in the purpose, it says... to approve the donation of a public art installation by artist Marvin Weeks. The difference is I don't think we can approve a donation yet. And whenever there is a budget or whenever this number comes back and where it's going to come from, I think that the item has to come back here so that we can approve that donation. We can approve the artwork right now so that everything gets moving. But whenever t

That's fine. I'm just saying that whenever there's a dollar, there will be one soon. Whenever there's a dollar amount and then we know this artwork is going to be estimated at $70,000, then we can accept the donation. That's what we're accepting, the value and everything else, right? But for now, the item, like Indra said, the item is just the approving of the artist.

What I'm saying is that the formality of the donation, when we know what the value of the art is, then The city accepts a donation, but right now we don't we don't know what the value is We don't know there's no you know, there's no donation to accept yet.

I Don't know if we have I mean we don't We haven't seen any budget allocations, so I'm not really sure what amounts are available.

I asked the question if that was a possibility, so we would have to get an answer from city staff, and we would have to see a budget in order to decide whether or not that was something we could do.

I think it depends on the budget of the work.

Yeah, and I'd like to hear from Commissioner King first.

I'm sure we'll figure it out. It seems as though the Commissioner's office is very active on this project, so. If there are no more comments, can you make the motion?

Sure. So I make a motion. AIPP Resolution 18550, Resolution of the Art and Public Places Board with attachments pursuant to Chapter 62, Article 16, titled Art and Public Places of the Code of the City of Miami, Florida, as amended. approving a public art installation by Marvin Weeks, the artist, titled The Miller and Nancy Dawkins Mural, located at approximately 4800 Northwest 12th Avenue, Miami, Florida, 33127, also known as the Miller J. and Nancy S. Dawkins Olympic Pool Complex, located within Charles Hadley Park, making findings containing a severability clause and providing for an effecti

Second by Ms. Napoles. May we have a roll call vote, please?

Yes, you know, Technically, there will, you know, obviously we'll have a budget before then, but yes, yes, yes.

These are the actual proposals. That's not being selected.

You don't have a picture of one, so you only have a picture of two and three?

But this one here, the site two? Site two, he called it site two. It looks like photo, it doesn't look like Magnus' work. Well, it's his rendering. But the other rendering was really his painting, right? So just to be clear, we're not doing like a photo mural, right?

On the ORCID project, is there a part of the budget that is then allocated to the maintenance of the live plants, or the expectation is that that's something that's going to be programming afterwards with Fairchild?

But that has a limited time. So that would happen one or two times. And then the concern is, of course, three, four, five, ten years from now, then there are no orchids and it's a sculpture. And maybe that's okay. Maybe it's beautiful enough to be there. But I know we recently had another park that we had to fund the landscaping for, etc. So that's why that's a concern to me.

How are you going to get the orchids in there if somebody's sitting?

So we... I'm assuming we really don't have the final design for her, right? So we can't really... The final design. She's working on it. So she's been selected, but we don't have the design.

But that really changes everything because the interior is a much smaller... thinner space, and you have to sit in that space as well, so where are you going to put your back if you've got an orchid?

I'm just saying. I mean, I love it. It's beautiful, but until we see another design, I don't know.

I was asking, where do you sit if you have the orchids on your back? I mean, I understand she's going to read a mention, so it fits within the recess there, but not understanding the concept of the orchid then growing out if Somebody's going to be sitting there. I don't know if they'll fit. So we're asked to approve the selection of these artists that were already selected, correct? Why don't you explain a little bit about how that process went and where did we come from and how did we...

So what happens? We went from five to two. And what's being, so now we approve these two and then?

So whose artwork goes into these recesses?

Can we show the mural? So we're talking about here two different artists?

One will do the outside wall and the other one, the voice area inside.

I go back to, I love Joyce's work and I love the idea. I just, like Olga mentioned, there's maintenance involved and there's also As an educator, you have to have buy-in from your audience and from the staff. So when those orchids don't have those beautiful flowers on them anymore, you know, it's a completely different look. Number two, what I'm noticing is like it's in an overhang. I don't see any sunlight. I almost feel like it should have been reversed. Like that outside wall could be more of a living wall. And then, not to create a problem, but the inside, you know, is the inside and you'r

But then you have the proper plants. Do you know what I mean? You have no light to too much light and that's the... I don't know, I mean, as a gardener, I'm thinking about having a wall full of not thriving living plants, you know? It's something to think about.

Why is there no dollar amount here? Like, we're approving these two finalists, but no budget for this? I saw the numbers that they provided, but. Don't we have like a formal budget for this?

It's the square footage of the amount that each artist is going to paint. It makes sense with a split it in half.

Actually, the cost of the outside, definitely with the material, is more money than the inside. It's actually as well the quality of the paint is much expensive than one day outside.

Just to clarify, Joyce has not yet come back with her reduced proposal for the limited budget. Her original proposal was just for the full $48,000.

But you're confident that she, like she's open to having such a great reduction of the budget and still working?

How did we get to a place where there's two artists and not just one?

How come there's two artists involved in this and not just one?

Since Magnus was slotted in then to do that diagonal wall.

But they're not collaborating. They're each doing their own separate project within this courtyard.

It just seems we're trying to sort of put it square and around. I mean, this is a small space, and we're sort of making it really complicated.

I mean, I understand that the orchids would die with too much sunlight, but then why didn't she propose something else for that wall?

And the PAC member from District 4, there was a designated commissioner representative, you said?

Actually, I don't think that the Orchid Project is practical in a senior... place where they have to be maintenance and so on. And definitely the landscaping artists, both are very good, I think. My perception, and this is what I do for a living. And they look very, not only attractive, it feels very warmly for people contemplating and starting meditating, yoga, all that. That all people, we do.

Are there any other comments? No? I don't have any other comments. The PAC has reviewed this. There's been communication with the commissioner's office. I'm not sure if this is what you mean, Gary, but I do like You know, why not have one artist and really think about this thing comprehensively, like the whole thing? Or at least have them both, I don't know if collaborate, but coordinate somehow? I don't know.

Can we wait and see what Joyce comes up with? And just wait till the next meeting?

Can we wait till we see Joyce's final design?

Yes, but to answer your question, yes, we can choose to defer this if we prefer to not approve it at this time.

I mean, I would like to see what Joyce comes up with because I think there's definitely some constraint there and challenge. So let's see what she comes up with before we, I would feel more comfortable. I mean, again, I think both of the artists selected, I love the work, I know them, but

I don't feel like I have a clear understanding of what the the orchid wall is gonna be like Move to approve Magnus and not choice Or defer the whole thing Anybody else have a thought I mean Is there anything we gain by approving part of it and not the other part?

If we're confident we're going to have quorum. I support approving Magnus, but I'll go with what everybody else wants.

I don't know. Depends on the others. Any comments, any questions?

I like Magnus' mural. I'm not on board with the orchids, the live orchids in this concrete courtyard.

Would you support moving forward with Magnus only, or do you want to defer the whole thing?

I think the other artist is great, and it would be great if we could move that someplace else. But yeah, I think Magnus could do a great job here, and I don't see... why there has to be two involved.

Well, maybe it's nicer for the residents there to see a diversity of works, too, and two different visions. But yeah, plants are going to do whatever they want to do, and oftentimes that's dying. I mean, when you look at the columns, the suspended columns off Pam's building, which are now covered in plastic vines and were just dead. decade. It's tough with plants. I would love for her to crack that code and figure out how to make them work because that's not easy. She can do it. I don't know her.

Is there a risk that if the plants don't work that the art can not... live up to really what the... Yeah, it's a big component.

I feel it's just too complicated for the facility to maintain and so on. And if the two artists get well along together and they agree, the money, the budget is pretty fair on the job. So let it be my opinion.

So do we want to move forward with approving Magnus?

Yes, I see enough heads shaking. Okay. So I'm going to make a motion. AIPP Resolution 18850, Resolution of the Art and Public Places Board with attachments pursuant to Chapter 62, Article 16, entitled Art and Public Places of the Code of the City of Miami, Florida, as amended, approving the selection of finalist artist Magnus Sodeman. in accordance with section 62658 of the city code for the integration of public art at the Dr. Armando Adia Senior Center located at 25 Tamiami Boulevard, Miami, Florida. And I want to clarify, it's the $20,000 mural plus the painting for $4,800.

and continue or deferring the approval of Joyce until the next meeting when we see her final proposal.

May I ask if we're approving part and we're deferring part basically, right? So is there anything like formally that we need to do?

but we would be deciding on the first part, right? So we'd be deciding part of it and continuing another part of it.

Yeah, because if we're approving one of the artists and we're waiting for the other artist to come back, so either we continue it, or I'm not sure how we split the resolutions.

Okay, so I do need to finish with just Magnus and not add the continuance.

Because that's the thing that if we we would have to separate the item we would have to say okay We're the approving party and we're deferring party. I'm asking that's what I was trying to do. Yeah, exactly Asking the attorney's office. How do we do that if we're gonna separate? To separate the item? Correct. Okay. All right, let's do it that way then. Separate the item.

Okay, so I make a motion to split AIPP Resolution 1885 to separate the approval of Magna Sodom and from Joyce Ouellette. Does that work? And then we come back.

Who's second? Sorry, Mr. Valadez? Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye.

And then now I repeat, oh, do we need to vote on that?

Yes, please. Let's make a motion to approve.

No, sorry. We voted to split the item. So now we split the item, and now we're making a new, now there needs to be a new motion to approve the first half.

So I make a motion, 18850, resolution of art in public places. Board, with attachments pursuant Chapter 62, Article 16, Art in Public Places of the Code of the City of Miami, as amended, approving the selection of finalist artist Magnus Sodeman for his mural and a painting in accordance with Section 62658 of the City Code for the Integration of Public Art at the Dr. Armando Padilla Senior Center, located at 25 Tamiami Boulevard, Miami, Florida, 33144.

Second by Mr. Feinberg. May we have a roll call vote, please?

Thank you Florence. Now, please, a motion to defer Joyce until next meeting in March.

Yes, so a motion to defer item 180.50 to defer the selection of Joyce Billette until her final proposal is completed.

Technically, however you say we should do it, is what we want to follow.

Yes, so motion to defer the Joyce-Billette until the next meeting.

The selection, right? Of Joyce-Billette as a finalist artist. for the next meeting in March, correct? Is there a second? Please? Second by Mr. Valadez. Roll call vote, please.

Thank you very much Florence. You're welcome. It's now 9.10 p.m. And reading from page five of seven of our rules, we must conclude all meetings at 9 p.m. or when the current agenda item under consideration by the board as of 8.55 p.m. So we must adjourn. Is that okay?

Can we request that Indra send us all the details of the discussion item?

That'd be great. Thank you, Indra. Send us the slides, send us the presentation, and we definitely will discuss it at the next meeting.

Yes, well, also as the rules say, anything that wasn't reviewed just continues to the next meeting. All the discussion items and the other resolutions that we didn't get to today shall be continued automatically to the next regularly scheduled board meeting. 2019, yeah, this is like a decade ago. I make a motion to adjourn.

Second by Mr. Valadez. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Thank you very much, everybody.