Art in Public Places Board - Regular Meeting

Why would drug dealers put a lethal dose of fentanyl in drugs if they know it's so harmful?

Thank you. May we have the lobbyist's note, please?

Thank you. May we have a roll call, please?

We already swore in the public. Okay. For our items, are we moving on anything first? Changing any order?

So it's going to remain a discussion item? Yes. Good, okay. Okay. Well, let's talk about number one and number two.

THANK YOU. WE FINALLY HAVE MORE THAN QUORUM AND NOW WE HAVE MORE BOARD MEMBERS THAT CAN MAKE THIS DECISION. I guess we should all nominate a person to serve as chairperson and a person to serve as vice chairperson.

I'll make a motion. Would you like a motion or would you like us each to name our desires?

Well, I'd like all the board members to express, if possible, what they would like, and then we'll We'll discuss it in the open.

I'll make a nomination to vote for Francisco to remain as chair.

I would like to make a motion. Why, Mrs. Cuervo, we don't have a change?

I would like to nominate you, Mrs. Cuervo. Yes, as a chairman. We are in the female month, women's month. And it would be, I think you are really prepared as well.

You didn't expect that. I'd rather, let's listen to everybody else.

I mean, I would like to nominate Francisco again and Olga as the vice chair.

What's the difference? Just join them all together. Okay, let's read item one and two. We're nominating chair and vice chair. I mean, it's a formality.

I'll also nominate then vice chair for Olga as vice chair.

I think they want us to move through the first. So do you want us to vote on the chair? Great. Yes. Okay. Do we need to make a motion?

Unless anybody wants to second Maria's motion, but I think we have a second here, so we can vote on it. You want to take a roll call?

Yes, but let's take a vote first. Roll call vote, please.

And we'll add the language that you said, that the three-term, that we as a board are also voting on that a successive term be served past the three-term limit.

Was there another nomination for another chair?

Well, I think there's only two votes for Francisco and one vote for me. So, that's fine. I died. No more. That's fine.

I think Francisco had done an excellent job and he had conducted the business of the board in a very professional way, but I think a change, it will give us the opportunity to perceive the business of the board in different perspectives.

So I want to acknowledge your point of view, and I agree, and I think it's a wonderful nomination. At this moment, I'm going to support Chair Eretes, particularly because at this moment, we're dealing with a back and forth between him as our chair and the city with this issue with the city administration building. So specifically because of this interaction right now, I feel that it's an important time to keep him as chair, and I think that we should keep this in mind for next year. Since already this is an extension, I think let's kind of project that this would be his last term, since it's a

With all the respect to your opinion, I would like to say that I've been here as long as this board started. You just knew into this. And this took me, well, I've been doing this for 18, 20 years. Reading this today, for me, was a really surprise. I don't think that we should handle matters in this way. I think Mrs. Cuervo has... the knowledge of all this that has happened since the beginning, and it will conduct us into a better process for the most important job that we have to do now with the Freedom Park. I don't think that this is going to conduct the board into an intelligent way.

Great. Well, one more note. Maria, I mean, thank you for sharing this. I think that it, being this chair, It takes a lot of time and energy and space. And I don't want to speak for Christina. She's an amazing person as well. But I don't know that she's able to carve out that much space in her head and her time for that.

Well, I've been watching Christina as well as Mr. Francisco. Francisco had done an amazing job. I just said it before.

But I think that we should refresh the way we looked, the work that we're doing. We should refresh this. I think that Cristina has more than plenty experience into this, unless she doesn't want to do it. I mean, this is not an imposition. I wish I can have the knowledge of English as well as you guys. I'm too old, and this is not my first language. And actually, most of all of us, the ones really involved with the arts. And this is my prerogative at this moment, not to deviate the attention of all the artists called that are coming. I mean, just to get into this kind of a nasty internal job th

Again, I don't see why we can't have two nominees and we take a vote.

I don't think there was a second on my nomination. Let's just vote on Francisco and let's see if it passes and then let's move on. I think that we've, you know, And I appreciate all your comments, Maria.

And so we all can voice our opinions, and so being chair is, it is a good time consumption, but it is also, and Francisco's done a formidable job keeping us on track, but at the end of the day, we all have, the same vote, and it all carries the same weight. So I think that that's important, and I'm here to work cooperatively with the group, and I made the nomination for Francisco, so, and I think there's a second, so I think, Mr. Chair, if you're okay with it, I think we should vote.

We definitely need a roll call vote, please.

Yes, but again, I wanted to make sure that my opinion is taken in consideration. I don't think that we should deal or talk or resolve issues that are concerned to the board out of all the members together.

I accept. And I also, Maria, I hear you. and we will be discussing that at this very meeting. So I hear exactly what you're saying and we will be discussing it at this meeting and the item that I have proposed is precisely to address that. We will be discussing it because your opinions and your insights and our not only heard, but I mean, we respect them.

This is, this is, this is, like I said, we're your, your, your thoughts and, you know, your comments are noted and I believe we'll be addressing them tonight. Um, further. Okay. Thank you. Um, uh, This includes the note by the board that I can serve more than the term limit or three years and all that, right? Correct? It includes that comment?

It was stated on the record. It was, it was, okay, good, thank you. All right, so now we can move to the vice chair.

I'd like to make a motion to nominate Olga Granda for this role.

Second by Ms. Napoles. I believe we can vote, please.

Thank you. That's item number one, number two, and now we are moving to item number five, correct?

But we have to choose only one of them. Yes. And do you have still where Magnus' pieces are going to go? Are they still going inside those?

Can we see a close-up of the material, like how thick? And is it, it looks to me like it's a jagged edge.

Thank you for your beautiful work, really incredible. Could you read your name and address just for the record? Yes, of course.

Can you explain a little bit about, I think it's lovely, the maintenance of the flowers and how we see that evolving with time.

Does the city have any agreement with Fairchild? We do not, no. Is that something we could look into?

Like for the maintenance of this project and maybe some... some stipulation that they'll be on board.

Yeah, I think we can incorporate that into the artist agreement. The original Million Orchid project was like the native one. It's a small, I have a couple in my tree. I'm very happy they're surviving. So the orchids would be those orchids, or is it open to more of the colorful and different varieties? Because your renderings are beautiful, and it's a lot of color. But my experience is that they're kind of like

So in these programs that you create as an artist, the maintenance is part of what you propose, and in particular with these programs of flowering maintenance? Yes.

On your program, on your creation as an artist.

Is there a plan if they fail, if they don't survive?

Do you believe if the third option is selected with a narrower frame, do you believe that the inside is missing something now because the art is on the outside? Because you were thinking about putting it in these, I imagine because it integrates with them and sitting and being around. This is kind of like just an entryway, right?

Are people in wheelchairs wheeled through that doorway? No, no, no, I know it's accessible width-wise, but... I mean, I'd be hesitant to make that doorway any narrower just out of the realization that somebody's going to hit those edges with a wheelchair, with a walker. I have to push my dad around in a wheelchair. Whatever the ADA is, is what it is. But the wider, the better. I mean, so I wouldn't recommend doing a portal there for that reason.

How many of these portals are there? I see two here. Is it two? And could you do one, like, towards the back there? Because I don't see the big, the whole layout. And then still do the skinny ones? I'm not sure what... So, because you have the ones that frame the seating area, kind of. Yes. How is that in relationship to these two portals? Like, we could see the whole thing.

You couldn't do, because the two doorways, there's two. You couldn't do one of those and these, like kind of combine it?

I mean, if it's one of the portal and we select some of the structures to fit within the budget. Because that's kind of relating to each other as well, but I don't know where that big one is. Like where is that in relationship to these?

That's the one that was like towards the back where you have less possible bumping into, but it's still within the space.

Did the PAC make any ADA considerations? Did they mention that they preferred option A because of ADA?

The one that's the fence, where is that? Or is that a third option?

Joyce, are you concerned about that part, like, being in full sun, like, metal and touching it and getting hot or something like that? Like, I can see that skinnier wall place, you know?

And Joyce, the rendings are great. I don't want to undercut that, but how does the orchid attach itself to metal?

Wait, no, I'm sorry, the orchid itself, like as it grows and it's roots.

What's currently on that wall? Looks like the horizontal wooden, what is that?

Then I believe there are two different patterns. Two options that Joyce offered. Can you speak to what they represent or how you came to these patterns?

Does it represent something in particular?

Yes, I'm just a comment on ADA. I mean, you know, it's... You never know what can happen. Correct? And, you know, even reducing that, yes, maybe a wheelchair goes, but maybe someday we need to push a bed through there or we need to push something else. And so maybe we, you know, this is a senior center, so we may be a little bit constrained by ADA. I, you know, if the PAC has already analyzed this and prefer option A and so does the commissioner's office as well, or option A and option B, I would feel more comfortable with those options just because of the ADA restrictions. I don't know about

So then do we have a preference between the thin ones versus the fence?

We could, yes. We could as well. I'm making a comment for me personally that if that portal really is an access for these seniors, I mean, if it's something more to the side and really it's not really a useful access or anything like that, sure. But if it's a means of egress or ingress, you know.

Could we do it safely? If we can do it safely. There isn't traffic through that portal.

The ones, the one on the trellis, they're against the wall. They're against the wall. Why not, the portal, why not do it against, you know, same thing but a frame against the wall and not an inlay, you know?

Option one was revised, right? Wasn't originally the seats blocked in some way?

You as an artist, which one is your option, the one that you prefer?

So just to confirm, both of them have a lot of traffic, not just the first one. Both of them.

It's not an exit from the building or anything?

And you feel like this edge that you've looked into putting will make it smooth enough that people won't?

I mean, I appreciate how this is more impactful, and the concept of portals, I think that's a beautiful statement, and I understand it. I do have concerns about people jamming into it and getting hurt, but if the powers that need to approve those things, code-related or fire or whatever it is, approve it, then I would support it.

Is there the budget for both one portal and the trellises?

I think if that's a good compromise, I can make a motion to approve that. Does that work? Okay, so number five, right? So a motion to pass AIPP Resolution 18963, a resolution of the Art in Public Places Board with attachments pursuing to Chapter 62, Article 16, entitled Art in Public Places of the Code of the City of Miami, Florida, as amended, approving the selection of Joyce Billet as a finalist artist in accordance with Section 62658 of the City Code for the Integration of Public Art, at the Dr. Badia Senior Center located at 25 Tamiami Boulevard, Miami, Florida, 33134, and specifically sel

Second by Ms. Napoles. Let's have a roll call vote, please.

Thank you very much. This is lovely. The seniors are going to love this, I'm sure.

Very good. Very good. Thank you. Thank you for noticing that. because the number six is rather quick it's more of formality please can you present number item number six yes

And this is intended to make the appointment easier, correct? Shorter, faster?

We still have two vacancies and one functional vacancy because Nelson hasn't attended for a little while. So we're still missing the board member from District 3, and the member at large from the Miami Dade Public Schools. Where are we on both of those?

But now they'll receive the report every quarter.

I think the chair was also asking Indra specifically if she's reached out to Nelson because we've brought that up at other meetings.

So you've sent him communications and he doesn't respond?

Can you send him a communication in writing? Okay. Send him another one, please, in writing. So please communicate with you and see, you know.

And or asking him to resign if he is not able to attend.

It's coming from the chair. I'm not asking the staff to tell Nelson to resign. I'm asking staff, I've asked the staff for quite some time now, to talk to Nelson Delgado to either attend our meetings or please, from the chair, from the chair, please attend our meetings or resign.

I think we can rule out the first of your suggestions in attending the meetings. He's very clearly, I think, don't even mention that, really.

Yeah, I mean, so we can move forward with the commissioner and we can let him know that we need to fill a vacancy.

Aren't there attendance requirements set forth in?

Yeah, no, of course. Of course. You know, commissioner can decide.

For instance, in the Arsenal Entertainment Council, we have this situation all the time where a particular commissioner, for whatever reason, appointed someone and doesn't want to appoint somebody else. And I think that The conclusion was that the commissioner have the right to just pass the request and do nothing about it. And I cannot understand that in either because this is a community work that is our responsibility to be present. And I think we should enforce this. I don't know if the law allow that.

That's why I think that we can, you know, we talk to Nelson and explain this, he should be okay with it. The thing is that we haven't. We haven't been able to contact him. So let's reach out in writing. You see?

You were saying? What do the attendance requirements mean? Are they meaningless?

So they are, in fact, they're meaningless. I mean, the commissioner can do whatever he wants. Or she.

I mean, I was hopeful at last meeting since Commissioner Gabela's representative was here, and there had been such an issue with the art in their district that they would understand, well, this is your representative's responsibility. I mean, has that kind of been reiterated to them?

So what is the attendance requirement again? So I understand that the commissioner can decide in the end to keep, to keep, to replace, to name a new one. You know, of course they can. But what are the attendance requirements and what's the process? Like Nansun has missed 90, 95% of our meetings, I would say, in the past two years. And so, so how does the commissioner even know that they're, their appointed board member is missing all of these meetings. Have you communicated this officially to the commissioner and said, this is his attendance record and we have a problem with the code here?

All right, let's vote on this item, and we'll see after you submit this quarterly report what the next steps are.

Indra, can you also answer though about the board member, the school representative?

Not a student, but yeah, it could be a teacher. It's a representative from the school board. It doesn't necessarily have to be a teacher.

So if someone is interested who's in the school system, they would have to apply through the school board or through you?

Send us all, please, again, all of the forms to submit applications to this board. Send it to all of the board members here. If anybody has any person to submit for any of these vacancies, please forward the application, and let's see if we can recruit to fill out our board.

Are there any other questions regarding this item? Please, can we make a motion?

Make a motion for AIPP Resolution 18985, a resolution of the Miami Art and Public Places Board recommending to the Miami City Commission approval of an ordinance amending Chapter 62 of the Code of the City of Miami, Florida, as amended, titled Planning and Zoning, more particularly by amending Article 7, titled Historic and Environmental Preservation Board and Article 8. 16 titled art in public places to modify board appointments making findings containing a severability clause and providing for an effective date And I would just add that the first report quarterly report is going out this mon

Yeah, well, the legislation isn't really, our concern is more with the vacancies on the board. So if we can get that report by the end of the month, and all of these issues are in that report by the end of the month. All right, so who second the motion? I'll second. Second by, I believe, Ms. Roche, right? Ms. Roche, second the motion. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any against?

Thank you, Florence. So, the next item, I'm going to take the word here. The next item is a resolution that I submitted recommending an amendment to the master plan, the interim master plan that we have approved, to add a new section on program administration. The master plan currently has no section on how the program is administered, how the projects get to the board, or how information flows between departments and this board. That gap has caused real problems, and this resolution addresses it. For the record, I submitted two versions of this resolution. Staff published the first version on

This board by law either approves, recommends to approve, or denies. And it does so after having reviewed the scope, the budget, you know, all of the considerations. And it should have the assistance of all of the city departments, not just the public art division, but also the planning department and other city departments, as well as the city manager and everybody else, So the intent of this resolution is to reaffirm that the public art division shall present the project to the board with a proposed scope, preliminary budget, recommended selection, methodology, and timeline. No request for q

I have a few questions about the divorce by law. Does the City of Miami Public Art Office, the manager, who has the right to overrule whatever we decide or vote here in any particular business, with developers or, for instance, this big project of the Freedom Park. Sometimes developers, they come with, I should say, somebody, politicians or people people that have the power, economical power in this big business. Does the art in public places have the right over the board to meet with these people and sometimes they have their own artists in their own projects and they come with their own deve

Thank you. Question. You said option A and option B. Option B is paying into the fund. Where do you get option A?

Where is it? For example, Freedom Park. You mentioned that Freedom Park has option A and option B. Where is option A?

11.7 Government Development Projects Public Art Requirement. Subsection B. Private funds used for government development projects on land owned by the city, county, state, federal, or any other governmental agency and on private property are subject to a 1.5% public art fee to be paid into the fund prior to issuance of a master building permit. So... Where is option A?

Well, but this is private funds. The private funds is subsection B.

I disagree. It's a private fund. Private funds used for government development projects on land, the fee must be paid into the fund. There is no option A for private developments on government property. There is none. You're mentioning subsection A, which applies to government development projects. DEVELOPERS ON, FOR PUBLIC DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPING ON... CAN WE HEAR FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY ON THIS? YEAH, SURE.

Sorry, if it includes all development, then why does a subsection B exist for private funds? Why is it specific for private funds used for government development projects? Why is there a specific ordinance B? If what you're saying is everything fits in ordinance A, Why is there a specific ordinance B? Why isn't there an ordinance A and B for everything?

You're calling it an option, but it's an ordinance. So it's not necessarily an option. You're saying it's an option, but I'm saying it's not an option. Ordinance A applies to a certain type of development. Ordinance B applies to private funds used for government development projects. It's very specific.

So, in other words, if I'm understanding this, is the option of your office? All right. So, that would be... This kind of a proposal from developers will come to your office first, but you will present the proposal to us.

your program guidelines okay our chairman was very concerned in our last meeting in other words last month meeting that there were some kind of decisions over the board about freedom park that didn't show up into our board meetings and it was then approve or kind of managed as business without our...

Sorry, sorry, sorry, but... Let her finish.

In other words, again and again, we have the right as a board concerning the decision within the art.

Correct. But the business to be done by the city in this humongous kind of business as a Freedom Park, the manager of the city of Miami have the right to do or accept some business over our decision. Because our, let's say, I don't know if I'm explaining myself properly in English. The big business in any particular city of this country are belong to the managers of the city, not to us to decide if the business can be done or not. Either if it's art or if it's planning or if it's permits to...

Correct. So that's what we have to understand, I feel, in my little knowledge of all of this for many years, is that there's certain business that the city have the power of the board. I said it's simple. We don't have to fight for that. Our business, okay, let me explain again because you give me kind of a dirty look, Mr. Chairman.

I understand. I'm sorry. If you can explain, I'm sure.

Okay. Again, this big business is the Freedom Park. The city of Miami, the manager, have the right to do some business with these big companies that they don't want to go through the entire process of going to the board. And the city of Miami, the manager, have the right to do that. Our right as a board of culture and public art is to approve the art, but not the business.

No, no, no, no, no. That's precisely the point that that's precisely the point that I'm trying to make to the planning department and precisely the reason why, you know, I believe that we should amend the master plan to explain that, to clarify that. But for example, for freedom park, I mean, We've been asking for information about Freedom Park for over a year now, probably a year and a half. In 2023, we were informed that the project had an estimated cost of one point something billion dollars, that the 1.5% was close to 20 something million dollars. That was in 2023. In 2026, to this date, W

Well, we're opening with no public guard. The master plan, we'll see. And we're not complying with the city code. I'm struggling to understand how Freedom Park specifically, because we're talking about that one. But how does that not qualify for 11.7B?

And why haven't you informed us? And what payments have been made and based on what? What was the calculation?

Do you believe that this board authorized the city manager to disregard 11.7B because we're in a master plan? Do you believe that that's what this board did? Sorry, because that wasn't in the resolution that we approved, though.

Well... Again, I'm making a formal request to the city attorney to provide, I'll put it in writing and I'll be very specific exactly what we want, but

I thought the resolution last month was only for the master plan.

Okay, so then what are these payments that you're talking about?

But what funds? What's being paid to the public art trust?

Is 1.7, sorry, 1.5% public art fee being paid to the fund prior to the issuance of a master building permit? Yes or no?

I'm talking about the half billion dollar stadium that's opening on April 4th.

Well, pull it, please. I mean, you know, please, yes, let's pull the receipt. Let's see the numbers. I mean, you're mentioning that an amount was paid into the public art trust, sorry, fund.

at one point we used to get a budget we used to see the amount of money that we had annually so oh i'm sorry the the budget for the public rf1 was included in the annual report that was just submitted and approved yes that's included but this amount was not that this amount was not in the in the in the uh

So we don't have, still, we still don't have any information on this amount. I want to get back, sorry, to the point of my resolution. And the point of my resolution is that there's a disconnect between this board and staff. We've lost some organization. We've lost some structure here that we had before, that we had prior. And what I am proposing, this... plan go back under special projects division which means that Efren Nunez who is the person who has the information and who can provide it to us timely he can assist the public art division with the program that's what I would like now that's

I'm in agreement with you. I'd like to move forward with your recommendation. Thank you. Ms. Napoles, your thoughts, please.

No, no. Let me say this. While we are bringing a friend back to this, he has done his job wonderfully well. He had helped us to create this strong board, help on the bylaws. But why is it just you wanted to go back to the past?

This isn't about going back to Efren. This is about going back to a structure where we had the information, where we were given timely information, correct information. where we had knowledge of what pipeline, what was coming, what was not coming, where we had the budget presented to us before time and everything else. If it's Efren in there or if it's anybody else, that's okay. It's not because of Efren. This is because the Special Projects Division has the information of the capital projects in the city of Miami that other departments do not have. It is not because of Efren Nunez or anything

So there's obviously a gap. There's a gap here. And that's what I'm trying to address. This isn't about Efren Nunez. This is about the Special Projects Division.

Because we are all adults and we are professionals here and we need to understand Why this and when and who was started in that department? That for whatever reason, the master plan was not, let's call it, it was overseen. You want to see it that way? In other words, do you want to see or you want to say or do you want for us to agree with you that purposefully the master plan was overseen in this particular issue?

But capital improvements is not inside planning, right?

Right. So who is inside planning that has access to the capital pipeline of the city of Miami? Who best?

Well, let's talk about Freedom Park, Watson Island, any of the city administration building, any of those.

Okay. Okay. So we pick one, Special Projects.

We need to see the budget and everything else that is.

But may I, may I, may I, may I, may I, may I? You seem to believe that the problem that we're having is because we need to redraft some guidelines? You believe that that's the problem that we've had for the past year and a half or more?

Sorry, that's not the issue, though. Option A is just because we started talking about Freedom Park, and we got caught in a little tangent there, and I've already asked the city attorney to give us the legal opinion of the city, because I want a serious legal opinion, and I'll send you something in writing, Mr. Pineda. But that's not the issue here. The issue here is that for over a year now, we've had a gap between this board and staff, okay? We've not been informed properly. We've not been noticed properly. We've had called the artists when we've asked expressly not to do the call to artists

A people's court. The park is actually open.

The stadium is going to be open to the public on April 4th. Excuse me, get close to the microphone, please.

Yes, on April 4th. The stadium is opening. Is that what I'm understanding?

Yeah, I can show you several news articles here by Jorge Mas. There's Messi saying it. There's... MLS, there's Time Out Miami, there's Miami Herald, there's... My understanding is...

Yes. Okay. So when that park opens, will there be any art? Like what will be there when it opens? What are we looking at? There will be no public art at that time. Nothing? It's just one big old concrete stadium with seats in it?

Does the developer now have any plans on bringing art in? like on their own? Like do they have something that they're working on that they're going to bring to us anytime soon? I'm just curious. Like I'm trying to understand. No, it'll be done through the public art master plan. It'll be done through the site-specific. So we're looking at possibly years before we actually see anything?

So how do we find out if you're going to be able to do these? Decisions and calls and let us know When are you really gonna like when are we gonna know what how much money that's gonna look like I think that's what so so part of the big frustration so we have to remember that public are the 1.5 percent is based on the construction cost and

When? I have never received a permit tracker.

They presented something, but it wasn't concrete. It wasn't, you know, it was some estimation.

I don't think they sent it out. I think they just brought it here and mentioned it here.

But what is that number? Somebody must know what that number is.

How do we, I mean, the stadium is opening in 20 days. In 20 days. How do we not have that information? Let me ask you this. Not to be... I'm not trying to be cynical or anything, but if you would grade yourselves on Miami Freedom Park and how this public art process has occurred, let's include the city administration building and the call to artists that we asked not to, what would you grade yourselves? Do you really believe that this issue is about us creating new program guidelines?

Actually, you just touched a point right now, very interesting. I was invited maybe two months ago, at the beginning of the year, by the greatest Chamber of Commerce of Miami. All the construction big companies that are involved in this Freedom Park were there. They were... actually the speakers and so on. And I feel that the construction companies were actually controlled and managed the whole business through the city because the arts and entertainment, I'm sorry, the public art, our board was not mentioned there at all. So My feeling about all of this is that not intentionally the Art in Pu

Okay, I remain confused about different things, which it's fine. I don't want to go through everything. What I want to understand is, you know, if... The chair is saying that already this language exists in the code. Why it needs to be reiterated or why isn't it being followed? Is it that it's not in the code? You know, this statement, no request for qualifications, request for proposals, call for artists or other solicitation shall be issued until the board has reviewed project scope, a budget allocation selection method. You know, does that exist in the code or not? No, it does not.

And you're saying that the way this is written is not the best, like it might be problematic in the future. Yes. Okay. I have my answer to that. I'm, you know, related, I'm reading through this correspondence between the chair and Mr. Snow, and I'm reading the February 19th email, which is specific to the city administration building, which is, in my opinion, part of the crux of this whole thing, that we specifically asked for the call to artists not to be sent out, and then they were, right? So what I understand is that what Mr. Snow is saying is that the city of Miami has chosen not to put t

Okay, so that's definitely news to us. And in the last meetings where we, well, I guess last time Indra was not able to make this presentation, but in the previous one, when this call to artists came up, that was not explained to us, right? So he could have done it outside of us, but you're saying that he chose to ask the city to do the call on their behalf. Yes. Okay. And that is why you're saying it didn't come to us because this is a favor that we're doing them because we're not obligated to do it. Correct. That's what you're saying.

So therefore, we really have no purview over that money and where it goes in the city administration building. Okay.

And won't be. So therefore, all that we're going to be able to do is rubber stamp yes or no on the actual art that gets presented to us. Correct.

If I may. I mentioned the city administration building and we're talking about the developer. This is exactly where 11.7 applies. All developers for government development projects shall provide for the acquisition of art equivalent in value to not less than 1.5% of the project cost of all government development projects. What that means is contained inside A is either art that's equivalent to 1.5% or 1.5%. So when staff is mentioning option A and B, really option A for developers on government projects development projects, option A or ordinal A already has implicit both A and B. However, ord

I just feel that with this project, the way you've explained it now for the city administration building, it's like half them, half art. It's neither one or the other, and that doesn't make sense to me. You're going to administer the process, but not really. It doesn't make sense to me.

I don't understand. What are you saying about the city building? Sorry.

No, no, I was just going to say, I mean, I don't think that's our purview to say whether we can just say not to that we don't want to be involved in it or not. I mean, I think that that's why there's a city code and there's a process. I think that, you know, my opinion on all of this is that you should want to support what we as a board want to support. We're here to support you. And we're being antagonistic in this whole conversation because it seems like we, our goals are not aligned in the sense we were here, we thought this was gonna be the most important project for this board in terms of

Yeah, and I think to the chair's point about that, it's a lot about process. We're constantly feeling like we have to beg for information. I sent an email two weeks ago asking about a project in my district, no answer. That happens all the time. And so that expands on the frustration of this board, that process feels, you know.

Before tonight ends, I'd like to update on the Founders Monument. The Founders' Monument? If we could just get 30 seconds on that after this conversation.

How many submissions did you get in the end?

So the resolution that was published in the agenda last week had the language regarding the special art division and everything else. And so this is a different version, but, I mean, you know.

I'm still, you know, I disagree. Again, I disagree wholeheartedly that what we need is just, you know, a change in the program guidelines, et cetera, because of option A or B. I think we need, honestly, I think we need a legal opinion on the nature of the public art board, on the power of the public art board, what we're here to do, what the law is telling us that we need to do and not do. I disagree that the city administration building somehow is separate and the city manager and the planning director get to decide on that separately from this board. I don't think it's an optional thing. I t

Yeah, but only at the final stage, but nothing else. And that was Director Snow's communication is that City doesn't really have to give us any of that. That you're doing us a favor and that, you know, that we're to provide feedback. And that's it. And that all we do is approve this at the end. And that's actually not true. So we approve this not at the end, but the scope and the whole process. And that's, you know, that's the disconnect that I think that still exists here.

Yeah, no, I provided both. You published the first one. and then you substituted the second one at the end, right?

The big deal really isn't that... It's just... It's one more... issue, but it's not really the main issue. The main issue is that there is a disconnect between staff, the planning department, director, staff, and this board that didn't exist before. Before, it didn't exist. I mean, we're still arguing whether this or that, instead of saying, you know what, we're gonna have a report, Miami Freedom Park, these are the numbers, we're gonna have a budget, we're gonna move, we're gonna talk to the developer, this is what we can do, this is, but none of that. It's just trying to explain why maybe we

Thank you for reading it. With the assistance and recommendations of the Planning Department, So planning department, public art division, other city departments as necessary are there to assist the AIPP board. And one of our functions is to approve, prove with conditions, or deny proposed installations, educations, or donations of art based on the public art program guidelines and the public art master plan, which includes budgeting and everything else. So...

I feel the disconnect comes from the fact that we don't have the master plan and therefore we're defaulting to the minimum.

We have an interim master plan. We have an interim master plan. Number seven, the city attorney shall act as counsel and provide legal services to the board. So that's what we're going to do. We need you to act as counsel to this board and provide legal services to this board regarding Chapter 62, Article 16, and Article 11 of the Miami 21 Code.

Thank you. And I'll put it in writing so that it's clear. One of our roles, as you just mentioned, was number two, was to recommend the public art master plan and amendments to the public art master plan to the city commission. And that's the intent of this resolution, is to recommend an amendment to the master plan to insert a section called program administration, because right now we have the guidelines and we have the master plan, sorry, and we have the guidelines in the text. But there's no place in the master plan that says how the program is going to be administered. And maybe that's wh

The master plan specific to Freedom Park is supposed to have representation from this board. How is that going to move forward?

Does anybody on this board want to be the representative to the Freedom Park Advisory Board? I throw my name in as anybody else wants to.

Well, let's deal with the item at hand, please. Representatives to Freedom Park, we can talk about that later. Freedom Park wasn't the subject of this. It's just an example. is just an example of this. The problem is that there's a disconnect between staff and this board, and staff is not informed of the, properly, or at least has not informed us, of the city pipeline of capital projects. It was working before it was changed, and now it is not, and my motion is to amend the Miami Master Plan to reiterate and reaffirm some of these processes and try to give some organization to this.

I'm proposing a change to the motion, actually. So I don't know if you, City Attorney, can I make the motion or should somebody else make the motion?

Of course, of course. I'm sorry, I'm looking at it here because I had to do it after, but It's exactly the same, the only change would be in that paragraph that Mr. Feinberg mentioned, paragraph three, after the first sentence that says Miami 21 code, after that first sentence, I would add, to that end, the Public Art Division shall operate under the direction and supervision of the Special Projects Division of the Planning Department, Or any department, really, with visibility of the, like mentioned, if it changes, if somehow there's another, you know, that's fine, but there needs to be some

I think what also is important is that we're involved at the earliest stages of the capital projects.

Right, that's the first, exactly. The effective implementation of the Art in Public Places program requires that public art be considered at the earliest stages of capital project planning and design. so that artwork can be thoughtfully integrated into the built environment and public art obligations under the city code and the Miami 21 code can be identified and enforced in a timely manner. I don't know if you want me to continue reading it, but upon identifying a construction project or development application that is eligible for or subject to public art obligations, the public art division

Okay, so, Chair, I'm trying to understand, if there's already, like, if project scope, budget allocation, selection method, you know, the methodology, that is a process that's already set, right? So, how will this help us be part of the process? If those are things that are set in stone.

Yeah, sorry. It's not exactly set. So... Obviously, the word budget is thrown here and there, but if you see the master plan, the structure of the master plan has obviously an introduction, the ordinances, how it's created, the vision. Then it has a chapter on the master plan itself, the goals, criteria, policy, artwork at tourist-oriented locations, how all of these things should be applied. And then, right, and then it jumps from there to program guidelines directly to, okay, artwork project, development of projects, and it says that the art in public places oversees the implementation of in

I support your resolution. I don't support the thing you added because I think that that, you know... going further to dictate what division, what department, I mean, the city changes. I think that, you know, the public arts division is already codified, and so I think that that's what we need. Wherever they lie, now, unless you're telling me that because it was under the auspices that it fell under this division, they no longer had to report to us, then I would... My question is more of a, you know...

How is this going to work? If we're just repeating the stuff that we already know, I mean, I'm very clear on all these concepts. You know, today, honestly, I'm a little surprised that staff has this interpretation of Chapter, sorry, of Miami 21 Code, of Article 11. But, you know.

And that's where I was going. So I support what you're saying here. And if this was going to achieve what I think it's intended to achieve, I'm sad to feel that the interpretation that has been proffered in terms of option A or option B, this is not going to solve that.

I support it because I do think that the standard operating procedure is not spelled out, and so I think it's good to codify that somehow, but I think that ultimately, if If the interpretation is that a public project can directly acquire the 1.5% art and then come to us at the end, then that, in essence, is what we're battling. I think that That's not going to, this isn't going to solve that. And that's all I just want to say.

No, no, no. The 1.5% art requirement, this is not, this resolution is not for that. This resolution is to fill in the gap. There's an information gap. There's a process gap. There's a, you know, with regard to the board and staff. And 1.5% is just an interpretation of the public art requirement. It's a separate thing. And I think we should definitely find out what the city attorney's office considers. But that's a separate thing. The reason why I'm adding the special arts, the special projects division first is because that's the way it was before. And Steiner mentioned that before it was spec

I would like to have a last word, if I can. Of course. Please. This is exactly what I meant at the beginning of the meeting, that we should bring all the matters that bother us in our own position to the open and discuss it. But number two, I don't think that whatever is happening here has related to any particular employee or position, whatever internal affairs or the business of the government. Sometimes employees, people that have position, they don't have no say, but follow the wave in the favor of the past and the present.

But Ms. Steiner, you said you were going to draft potentially what this gap, how to fill it.

But also addressing the idea of early stages. Right, we can, absolutely. How do we achieve that?

I guess we're also looking for some transparency. I mean, when you know, can we know?

But in the meantime, we could still pass this, which is not guidelines, but is trying to address issues.

Yeah, I mean, guidelines, you can pass more guidelines. That's fine. That doesn't, you know, this is the master plan. This is a section called program administration, you know, that

And does this have to be approved by the City Commission?

Yes. Yeah, all of this has to go to City Commission, of course.

So I think I concur with Christina that I would support this as it is written here now. Are there any, you had mentioned that you might have concerns over other language. Is there anything else that you feel, you know, this might not get through, like something that you would alert us to?

May I ask, forgetting any objections that could validly exist, what is your objection to special projects division supervising the public art division. Why is there opposition from staff on that? From the department?

Oh, no, well, no, we're not, we're definitely not doing any staffing. This isn't about staff. This is about having the information... at the earliest stages, having the natural supervision of the public art division should be the department with the most access to that information.

And we're gonna have to have a, yeah, definitely a legal opinion on this.

Yeah, that's... How would you like to move forward? Would you like us to pass this now, or would you like us to direct them to write these program guidelines?

I, you know, I... I'm not really sure how this is going to... How this is going to really help us resolve the... Because it just seems as though... you know, if we pass this, it doesn't seem as though there's really a will from staff to bridge this gap. And so I think maybe we need to have a legal opinion first on the entire chapter 62, 11, the whole public art board, the whole thing, and really understand who's right here legally. And then then we can decide on other things. I believe there's a legal question here that I believe there's a disagreement on. I entirely disagree with staff's inte

This shouldn't be about drafting a program guideline about drafting this or drafting a master plan or whatever. It should be about staff saying, what's the problem? Let's fix it. It seems as though you don't want to fix it. All we want to do, let me finish. I apologize. All we want to do is write some more program guidelines or this or that. We already have a Chapter 62 and an Article 11. And we already have a fundamental disagreement on that. That didn't exist, by the way, with the prior administration or the prior administration. And so there's now a new interpretation of Chapter 62 and Arti

Yeah, but it's not that we want to be more involved in the process. It's our process. We don't want to be more involved. We're not asking for permission. This is our board. This is our process. And so you're asking us to, oh, let's write a guideline to do this or to do that. No, I'm trying to explain. This isn't the first time that I've mentioned these things. We've been talking about these things for months now. And, you know, last meeting, there was an issue because the staff just decided to disregard a direction of this board.

And so, again, there doesn't seem to be even a willingness to discuss the issue. You seem to revert to, we can draft a program guideline. I'm sure you can. I'm sure you can draft a lot of program guidelines. It doesn't mean that you're going to follow them, because we're not following them right now. I withdraw, or I request deferral. of this item, or I don't know, city attorney, what do you recommend that I do? Because I think that we need a clarification on the legality of this board.

Okay. Then I request the deferral of this item as chair. Do we need to make a motion to defer?

So there's no issues, because there was also an issue to put this item on the agenda that I haven't shared with the board. So that there are no issues, I want this item on the agenda for the next meeting. No, you know, no issues. It shouldn't be, right?

The Freedom Park tenant that's paid into the fund already, is that the arepa maker with the little cart in the parking lot that I've seen? Good question.

Never mind. Regarding Freedom Park, because they open on April 4, we're going to need to have maybe a separate opinion on this issue of the 1.5% before issuing a master plan. Again, the law is very clear, the ordinance is very clear to me that they must pay into the fund before the issuance of any master plan. And so I just, you know, since this project should, you know, that public art requirement should have been brought to this board, and if it's not, or whatever, how do we leave like a formal objection or something in the record that the public art process was not followed?

All right, let me try to express my question a little better in writing, and I will send it. My issue is, it may be too late. It may be that we just have to issue a master plan without any money going into the public art fund. But I think that the developer really should should pay into the fund, regardless of the master plan. The master plan is for the larger project. Remember, it's a $1.5 or $1.whatever billion. There's hotels. There's buildings. Right now, there's only a stadium and a few green areas and others. So obviously, it's part of the project, not the entire project. But I don't und

I think Marineapolis sort of hit it. It's the business of government.

Well, but that means that we're not applying the city code. No.

And I think that that's the legal opinion that you've requested. So I think that that needs to come back and we need to have clarity. Because if not, we're going to continue to have this conflict as we go forward. So let's once and for all put this to bed and...

It is, so we don't have this again. If we can have this as an example and we don't repeat it.

No? I make a motion to adjourn. Any second? Second. Second by Mr. Valadez. All those in favor say aye.