Civil Service Board - Regular Meeting

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the June 23rd, 2026 civil service board meeting. We will begin with the Pledge of Allegiance. Adoption of the agenda. We'll entertain a motion.

We have an amendment. I'm sorry, on my agenda, I don't see it.

Okay, so it sounds like we're saying that there's a hearing on today's docket on the agenda, but based on last meeting on tabling a hearing, you wanted to proffer to see if it was possible to amend this agenda to...

Okay, understood. So you want to see if we can... decide whether we should move forward or not with the tabled item. That's correct. Okay.

So we have a motion by Board Member Cabrera to amend the agenda to bring up what was tabled from last meeting. Second by Board Member Solomon. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Okay, so now, to begin the meeting after the pledge, good morning to everyone, and now we will entertain a motion to adopt the agenda. Motion by Board Member Lanier. Second. Second by Board Member Solomon. All in favor? Aye. Wonderful. Approving of the minutes. We'll entertain a motion.

Second by Board Member Jimenez. All in favor? Aye. D, disciplinary matters, D1, board members take note. E, general items, board members take note, E1, E2. F1, hearings, pendings list, board members could take a look. As of right now, our next scheduled board meeting is July the 7th, and pending a settlement on the one hearing we have there from what I see. Is that something that we don't know it's still pending as far as the settlement on that?

Okay. All right. Board members, any questions on any of the hearings pending list?

The... The settlement is in July, let me see the settlement. July 7th, a 20 hour suspension?

That's our next board meeting. I just asked the executive secretary and we're still pending a settlement on that, so it's still pending. Okay. That's our next scheduled board meeting and that hearing is pending.

OK, yeah. That was my question, so I'm sorry. It is that one. Bingo. OK, so board members, as of right now, our next scheduled board meeting, we have no hearings scheduled for that day. Is that something that we wish to continue with that meeting, or would we like to table that regular business to our next board meeting on July 21st, where we have two hearings pending? Because we have no pending hearing as of the time.

For July 7th. No, it would be, we would probably want to cancel at that point. Okay. And then automatically we'd table the regular business to the 21st.

Okay. I'll revise it. Motion to cancel the meeting for July 7th.

We have a motion to cancel the July 7th meeting by Board Member Soliman. Second it. Second by Board Member Cabrera. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye.

Excuse me, Chair. I said July 7th. I apologize. July 9th.

No, it's July 7th. Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. July 9th, you have other matters. Okay. All right. Sorry. So please take note. After today, our next board meeting, civil service board meeting, will be on July 21st. So far, we have two hearings pending scheduled for that day. Any other questions by board members on the pending, hearing pending list? No? Seeing none, we'll move forward to today's hearing, H1, appeal hearing on behalf of Alfonso Davila, former heavy equipment mechanic helper, concerning of a termination effective July 11, 2026. Ready to proceed? Good morning.

If you could please state your name and position for the right of way.

All right, do we need maybe 10 minutes to get ready for the hearing or so? Five minutes. Five minutes. Five minutes to get ready for the hearing? All right.

All right, we're in recess for five minutes.

And we're ready to begin with today's hearing, H1.

Okay. If I can ask both, do you have any witnesses today? Yes. How many do you have? One. One. City?

Five witnesses? Yes. OK. All right. All right.

Okay, noted. So employees, the employee's exhibits, there's no objection to them. I'll ask the employee, do you have any objections to the city's exhibits that they're proffering?

I'm sorry, excuse me. Could you tell us which exhibit is the one that shows that Mr. Davila was informed that his vacation was denied?

All right, we'll just go ahead and overrule. Everybody will look at the exhibit, and we'll hear from the witness, so it'll be clear.

Okay, let's overrule, let's let her finish the opening statement and then we'll get into the discussion with witnesses.

Wonderful, okay, so we have opening statements in, so I guess we'll proceed forward with the hearing. Mr. Davido, would you like to call your first witness?

Good morning, if you could please state your name.

Wonderful. Can you please raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God? Wonderful. Let's move forward with the first witness, Mr. David.

If you want, you can take this podium or whichever one you're more comfortable in, and then he can take the other so you can ask him the questions on the record.

In order to follow the procedure of the way it works, you would have to have like a, it's called ask-answer. So you would ask him a question like, You know, you would have to ask him questions kind of where you want to get your point across.

Mr. Davila, if you could just stand on this one, ask him the questions in there so it comes out on the record, both of you, so we can hear both of you.

Thank you. Any other questions you want to ask? City?

You got to be asked a question. I don't ask the questions.

Agreed. So it's two separate cases. Mr. Davila has the right to come before and is granted a hearing, and he's called them as his witness, so he can use them as a character witness or whatnot, so he's free to ask him the questions if he feels that there's questions to ask that are not pertaining to Mr. Templeton's case, but that... that there's a valid point or something that could do to characterization or anything that could help support his case, then we'll grant it to him. Do you have any other question that you want to ask him? Anything?

Okay. City, any other request, follow-up? Okay. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. City? Do you have another witness? No, sir. Okay.

I asked at the beginning of the hearing. He said he had one. The city said they have five. City, would you like to call your first witness? Yes.

Good morning. If you could please raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so I'll help you God?

We'll just overrule, let him continue, and then you'll have your chance to make a point. Continue.

Okay, overrule for now, let him continue, and you can bring that up.

Yeah, once she's done, you're going to have the opportunity to then question him on anything you want. Okay, thank you. Anything he's saying that you don't agree with, that you want to counter or something, you'll be able to ask.

You can say anything you want. Ask it in the form of a question.

Okay. He asked a straightforward question. He's asking you a question. Answer the question.

Objection asked and answered. Again, he's already stated he did. He spoke to her that day. He can't answer as to why she said something. So ask him what it pertains to.

Do we have... A copy of 2-87. Anywhere ready and accessible? You don't have it? Okay, I don't have it. That's fine. All right. Next question. Next question. All right, one second.

It's ask, answer. Did you approve his? I approved, yes, I approved.

Do you have any other further questions based on that? No. No, okay. Board members, questions? I have a question. Board member Lanier, recognized? Good afternoon.

So this is the initial exhibit that Mr. Davila gave you stating he would like to take 40 hours off, correct? Correct.

This is the initial leave request that you received requesting 40 hours off. Correct. You looked at your schedule to see if you had coverage for 40 hours. Correct. Okay. Go to exhibit number 14. This is the same form, right? When you wrote on a note, only eight hours approved, due to no time on the books. Did you let Mr. Davila know he only had eight hours?

Okay. You see the same form. You see, go down to, uh, we're on the left-hand side. It says, check below. Mr. Davila check, uh, code zero three for 40 hours. Correct. Go all the way down to code 93. You see what 93 says?

Has anyone ever requested time off from you, knowing that they didn't have any time because they needed their time off anyway?

So in this situation where he only had eight hours, he needed another 32 hours. If he would have redone this form and checked Box 93, would you have still approved it the same?

If you want to say no, I understand you're just for scheduling and if he can't even he said he needed 40 hours for scheduling Whether he wanted to get paid or not, would you have approved it?

Any other board members with questions? Yes. Board Member Suleiman.

Mr. Davila, do you have the message that you stated, the text message that you stated that when you were on vacation, you texted your supervisor?

He's being asked a question by a board member, so let him ask the question. He can ask him where, so overall.

After you read it, I'd like to see the message, your phone, and also if you could show it to the attorney. I'd appreciate it.

Could you please show it to the city attorney? Thank you.

All right, so I can reflect that the employee is taking some screenshots of some text messages that he has, and he's entering it into his exhibits, I guess.

And I'd like for the record to state that Mr. Davila's testimony was confirmed on his phone when I read it exactly how he explained it.

Yeah, I've got an attorney sorry a question for our city attorney We have to Request for leave forms the one that copies the ones that mr. Davila Provided to us in in his in his exhibits And the one that was provided by by the city and And Mr. Avila's form does not reflect the note, only eight hours approved, due to no time on books. And it also doesn't show the note on top of the signature of the supervisor as per note. Do you have any proof that, and they have the same date. That's why I'm concerned. That's why I'm concerned. if Mr. Davila was probably informed, do you have any proof that th

My concern is that I'm not hearing from you that he was notified of or received any that he received any proof that this form had been changed.

Then what can you tell me about the text message? that the supervisor claimed that he did not communicate in a text message, testified to it, and Mr. Davila provided the text message confirming that he had text.

Why then on July 11th, the last day of vacation that Mr. Avila requested, the supervisor is confirming the conversation and that he's off. The supervisor obviously had knowledge that he was off according to that message dated July 11th.

Did he email you? Excuse me. Can I interject, please?

If I may add, let's just, we have a witness before us. I don't know if the city's gonna exercise using all five of the witnesses or it's gonna be redundant, but let's stick to any questions that we have right now to this witness that we have here, and that way we can keep the hearing moving forward.

Okay, one final question for this advisor. So you stated, just to be clear, that you never gave Mr. Davila the second, the final form that The request for leave form, the final form, you never considered it?

I have one. Member Jimenez? I have two, actually. Exhibit 12. Is exhibit 12 and exhibit 14... Two separate forms, or is that part of the same request?

So for Exhibit 12. In City Exhibit 12. Yeah, City Exhibit 12. In City Exhibit 14. Is that one form that you fill out, or is it two separate forms?

No, what I'm asking you is, are the two forms separate forms that you had to fill out, or they're the same package?

I understand they're two different copies. Are they part of the same form that you have to fill out?

All right, so let me ask you, Did you fill out Exhibit 12? You filled that out? What about 14, Exhibit 14? No. You filled that out? No, okay. Did they give you a copy back from Exhibit 12? Did they give you a copy back?

Okay, so they never gave you a copy back?

Is that a true statement, Mr. Reynad? I'm sorry, uh... Rihanna? Is that what you're saying?

Thank you. Briefly. Board Member Lanier? Briefly. On what date did Mr. Rihanna notify you that you only had eight hours? Excuse me? On what date did Mr. Rihanna notify you that you only had eight hours?

So what date did you come into his office and then you contacted Ms. Puig immediately on the phone? What date was that?

That's what she states. And did you speak to her on the 25th? Yes. Did you speak to her about you only having eight hours?

Okay. And I have one more question for Mr. Rionda. On what date did you write this note? Because if you look at exhibit 12 and 14, exhibit 12 is approved by you. Exhibit 14 is approved by you. It's the same form. So on the 23rd, you approved it. What date did you come back and write this note on 14?

Okay, I have no further questions. Thank you, thank you.

Any other questions? Okay, I have some, I have several questions. Let's see. still all right I got about a minute left so good morning good morning okay how long have you been supervisor in your current position since 2014 2014 okay and how many subordinates you have under your purview it can vary normally I have 10 12 10 12 okay so you get asked for a vacation time

Okay. And you believe in progressive discipline?

Have you had any other issues with any other employees during your tenure here in the city? So you started working in 99 with people taking PTO time, sick time, anything like that?

Okay. And just from my understanding, so Mr. Davila is a heavy equipment operator. You're his supervisor. What is your job description?

OK. So you're an extension of a equipment operator kind of thing. That's your specialty. You supervise the equipment type. Correct. Employees.

So we're here in a very documented hearing, right, and a process that exists for you and for your subordinates and everybody else in the city. When you come before us and there can't be a settlement and stuff like that, documentation and the way that you request time, whether your own personal vacation time is very important. It's very important when you come before us as we're trying to assess and come up with a character you know, evaluation. Because there's a lot of hearsay. So when you have conversations and you tell them something, that's hearsay. We've got to take you, you know, kind of

Okay, so then in return, when I'm sitting here and I'm trying to evaluate, to be told back, hey, you don't have the time, or hey, they say you didn't have it, it's, would you deem it to be proper to not get notified in one way or another back in writing, kind of have it, you know, to cover the other way back, right? I mean, if an employee's responsible, a supervisor's held to a different level, right, to notify back in that way. Especially if you have an evaluation and you deem someone to be maybe not, I mean, when I'm looking at evaluations of what you're putting there, I didn't see like five

No, no, but when you're sending, you filled out the form, so you're going to fill it out, and you're going to sign it and turn it in up the chain to get approved. Don't tell me that you don't sign something. That's an oversight. That's a big error to not sign something. If you're going to request time off and you don't sign on it, maybe it could get disapproved because, well, you didn't sign it. You didn't officially request it. It's incomplete, if you will. That's concerning because we're here talking about somebody on a termination on something because of them not following documentation. Ha

I'm happy to hear that, and I hope that that's taking place throughout the whole department. You're the first witness, but I'd ask this of anybody else. whether you're approving hours, whether you're not, how you say it, if somebody has the options. Because then something else that I see, like Board Member Lanier brought up, when you have this form, you've been here a long time, you've requested time, you know what it is. If you're a supervisor, they gotta give you some training, not ask city and HR to give it to supervisors. At the end of the day, your specialty might be more, you know, super

puke about that so that's exactly what I did you don't have the time call my delis and clear it up with her and that's what he did in my limited experience with your shop and your experience of coming up with your testimony I can tell you that right away if I was able to go in and go in there I'd sit with the shop and stuff and say hey listen how are we going about when we do this because there's a lot of errors when it's going on here you can't fill out an employee evaluation and forget to put a signature on it that's unacceptable You can't have an employee that submits hours. If an employee

Do you, given that situation, and whether you know or not, but I mean very reasonable in what it is, you were notified he doesn't have the hours. You sent it up, and you were notified he doesn't have the hours.

And subsequent to that, you made notes and you made changes on it and you didn't find that important to properly serve him with a paperwork. Can he just tell you, hey, I want 40 hours off this July 7th to 11th? Can he just tell you like that and tell you, hey, bro, I want July 7th to 11th off? Send that up to, call Ms. Quigg, tell her. Can he tell you that? Would that be a way that he can ask for time off? And how can it be expected for a supervisor not to come back and say, hey, You asked it. You're only approved for eight. Here it is in writing, man. Call her. Take it up. I don't know the ex

So you state your name and your position. If you can please raise your right hand. You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God. Yes, I swear. Perfect, okay. City.

Let's admit it into the... Into the exhibit. Oh, is it in exhibit four? It's in exhibit four, yes. Okay, so I don't know if Ms. Lennett has it.

I believe from what I'm seeing here in Exhibit 4, the email, the original email was sent. I'm sorry. Unless I'm looking at it wrong here. On your Exhibit 4, you have an email on July 15 at 1253. Got it. Robert Mardellis and Mr. Macias. Yes. Got it, got it. Okay, so on exhibit four, first is the email on July 15th at 4.23 p.m., and then the subsequent page is an email July 23rd. Yes. All right, got it.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm going to go ahead. He's referencing a text message exchange that they have. So if they want to.

Okay, can you admit that? It's on the exhibit. She has it. Where is it? I'm sorry.

Okay, where is it there? Exhibit 5, where is it? So you can point to me to where... Let me show you.

Okay. And then it says there, where is it? Is that the voice note? Yes. Okay. So, and the voice note, it's your testimony.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, well, yeah, I got that. So I'll go ahead and overrule. Do we need a translation for the city or anything of what that means?

It's a voice note and it's in there. How do you want to submit it? And there's a sworn testimony by people that have sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I'll remind you both that you're sworn here under testimony. Yes. Is that your testimony to what it is? Would you like to ask him what it says in the voice note? No. I was just stating a fact. The city is saying that it doesn't state their... What it is. If you don't ask it now, I'll ask it during my questioning.

Okay, well, you asked a question. You asked him, did you provide you the form that you asked for? You asked him for a form. Did you provide it? I'll say yes. He said yes.

Yes. Okay. Okay. You have to answer the question yes or no. Did you alter the email that you sent on July 15, 2025?

I mean, if you don't recall, look at employee exhibit four. Look in the third page. You'll see an email. You're Hector Macias. There's an email on July 15 at 4.23 p.m. by you. And it has a date. If you want to look at the next page, it says July 23rd, 2025 at 2.37 p.m. An email from Hector Macias. That's you. And there's a different date. That's what he's asking you. So then do you recall that? It's there. Did you alter it? That's what they're asking you. That's what he's asking you. So that's what I need you to answer.

Overruled. Answer the question. Did he receive from you an updated version?

Board members, any questions for the supervisor? I'm going to ask you, from what I see here, in the Employees Exhibit Fours, there's two emails that come from you, one on July 15, one on July 23. It looks the emails are exactly the same. The only difference is you altered a date in it. Why did you do that? Maybe I forget about the day, and I put it on the day. You sent two separate emails. Do you want to look at it to see it? You sent both those emails, right? Nobody sent that on your behalf? Those emails that say from you, they're from you?

Well, I don't know. Read it. I mean, you're the one that wrote it, not me. I'm here now. I have to sit here.

No, I think he's looking at the city. At the city.

I don't think he does. Do you want to help him with maybe giving him a packet? Does he have access to the employee's exhibit? I can give him mine. He has one up there?

Take it so we can do it. So do you have employee exhibit four in front of you now? No. Do you have employee exhibit four in front of you now? That's what you have. Okay. Are you on the third page? The third page of that exhibit? Oh, over here. It should be an email. At the top it says Jennifer Ramirez, and then it says from Hector Macias, and it says sent July 15, 2025 at 4.23 p.m. Are you looking at that page?

That's it, the first page. Close it, close it.

You have page three open in front of you. You see that it's an email written from you. On the top, on the second line it says from Hector Macias. You see that?

You see where it says you sent it July 15 at 2025 at 4.23 p.m.? uh say 7 11 25 and 6 23 23rd okay yeah okay so you see that email that's an email that you wrote on july yeah yeah right okay you see where it's highlighted there in the second paragraph where it says furthermore on 6 23 20 25 yeah okay if you want a second to review it review that email if you turn to the next page the next page is another email sent from you on July 23rd, 2025, at 2.37 p.m. The email, if you want, you can review it, compare between page three and page four. The only difference is the date that you sent it, and t

I'm trying to understand. What I'm asking you is you sent two separate emails. Eight days apart. Why did you send two emails? The only difference I see is a change of date. I'm asking you. I don't know. I'm trying to understand.

You made a mistake in the date? Yeah. And so you wanted to send another email with... Clarifying that date? That's something that you realized, you had sent the email, you were going through your emails eight days later, and you said, oh man, I sent the wrong date, I want to send it, or how did this come about? Why did you send two separate emails?

You did send both those emails, right? Those emails were from you, both those emails, page three and page four?

But I don't want to say somebody sit down there and I'm doing shit. Do you recall writing both those emails? Maybe a mistake. Maybe I sit down there and I send it out with a different date. So right now your sworn testimony is you're not really sure why you sent both those emails or what you meant to do. You don't, you're having a, you can't recall why you sent these emails or if you sent the emails.

Sir, in your position, you're the nighttime supervisor? Yes, sir. And how long have you been the nighttime supervisor? Ten years. Ten years? What time do you come into work? 1.30. 1 o'clock. 9.30 p.m. 1.30 p.m. to 9.00. Got it. And so then it's your short testimony that you did send those two emails and you don't recall right now why you decided one or not. You're looking at it and it seems to change that date. That's the best of your ability. Yeah. No further questions.

Hold on a second. Council, is this proper?

Oh, wait. Okay, time out. Let's just order here a second. So we have a board member. A board member is asking a question. What it is. So we're not following the... I want the legal opinion of our panel.

May I ask this question through the chair?

Just one second, just for the point of clarification here. So we'll ask the board member, do you want to just like retract what you did? Do you have a further question? Because I don't want to, we're not going to get into a back and forth of objecting on board members being able to speak.

Even if we were just from my limited experience up here, even if he has an opinion on it, it's going to be hearsay and a speculative and all the objections are just flying through the air, firing off. So right away, this is why we're doing this. This is why we're doing this. We can come up. That's why we're aboard. They can come to us. They couldn't come to an equally unsatisfactory resolution on their own. So that's why we're here. And then now we're taking all this information and we have five minds of our own with our own opinions and objective and we're looking and we're seeing the evidenc

Do you have any other questions you'd like to ask?

I just have a question for Mr. Davida. Yes, sir. Let me ask it, and if you don't think or the attorney thinks it's relevant, then I'll take it back. Mr. Davida, do these dates conflict in any way with your case? Yes.

Does that answer your question? Yes. Thank you. His requested time was July 7th to the 11th. The first email came in July 15th. The second email came in July 23rd. Absolutely.

No, Chair. Thank you very much. Any other board members?

Good afternoon. If you can please state your name and position into the mic.

Sir, if you can raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? All right. City, proceed.

So in the department, excuse me, I'm sorry, not to interrupt your thing. Can we, for the sake of time and for following the proper procedure, can you stick to an ask answered? I don't want like a testimony back, just ask him whatever questions you want on a more.

I'm just trying to get a clear record. Yeah, I mean, I heard on your testimony that you were on vacation the same days.

Okay, I mean... The attorney's asking the question, and I'm sitting here. I heard the same thing. We'll have it on the record, and we have it there. But I heard, certainly, but we could put it on the record of when you were exactly on vacation. But it was definitely stated here.

We're just going to go ahead and overrule, because he could have just answered yes, and I should have stopped it right there. So we're going to overrule and go ahead.

He's asking the questions just like you were asking questions. He can give as lengthy or as short of an answer as he'd like.

Answer the question. Yes, no. You saw that he was approved for 40 hours.

You already asked him the question, so either move on or not. You already asked him that question, he says he saw it.

Did he get proper notice of the witnesses that the city was bringing forward?

You have the right to an attorney, right?

Absolutely. Thank you. We're not in a court. No, no, no. Okay. Board members, are you done with your questioning? Yeah, that's it. Board members, questions for?

So you say that you were given a bunch of information when you got back from the people that were involved. Yes, sir. That you knew something was going on. Yes, sir. Did you, so you saw the updated version that says he only had eight hours of leave, right? Did I what? You saw the updated version of the leave form saying that he only had eight hours. Is that correct? Yeah. In all of the conversations that you had with everybody, did anybody ever tell you that they neglected to give him the pink copy?

The calendar that everybody keeps talking about, like all the supervisors and you guys have access to, that shows the 40 hours approved. The calendar where it shows who's supposed to be at work and who's not, and it shows him as 40 hours approved. After you come back on the 11th and you see that, Was that ever changed? Was that calendar ever updated?

But it was never, so was it ever updated or not, the calendars, what I'm asking?

I'm sorry, I want to follow up on that, and I'm going to wait for my question, but okay, let me ask you just flat out. This calendar, it's for the purposes of supervisors, direct supervisors and above. Who inputs the data into that calendar?

Yeah. Okay, so it starts, but several people have access to it and input it. Okay, in this case, were you the person that input his hours into that, this hours that were in there, correct or incorrect, into that format? No, no. Do you have knowledge of who did?

I have yet to see anything that says eight hours. I only see something that says 40 hours that says on there. And then I think your testimony was that you were unsure if that was updated or not.

Okay, so do you know who put in the 40 hours?

Who put that entry in? Who updated that calendar? Robert Rionda. Rionda, okay. And to your knowledge, was that ever updated, changed?

Okay, perfect. I'll wait for the rest of my questions. Any other questions?

If I may. Member Solomon. Yes. Were you aware of the text messaging that had gone back and forth between the employee and the supervisor?

Good afternoon, Mr. Powell. In your superintendent capacity, who are your subordinates? Who are your subordinates?

Okay, and as it pertains to this case here, when are you brought in? What were you informed? Were you informed that Mr. Davila requested 40 hours time off?

You got back June 27th, is that correct? We clarified that. From June 27th to the date of him taking off is July 7th, right?

So in that time period, you were informed that he took 40 hours. That he requested 40 hours. That he requested 40 hours. Okay, and then you were also informed that he was only approved for eight hours. Correct. How were you informed of these? Verbally. Verbally. All these notifications were verbally to you? Yes, sir, verbally. And you're checking in with your board. Okay. Were you aware that he was informed that he didn't have those hours? Yes. And you were aware that he was informed verbally only? Yes. Okay. I don't know if you've learned your lesson like Mr. Rionda has said, but if not, I me

You think it is? Okay. Do you think that this is an example of progressive discipline or information being provided? Is this reflective of the way that the business gets done in that shop?

Has this employee been notified in this or any other instance in writing to be notified? Because you have a troubled employee. I mean, when it comes to taking time off, and you're his supervisor's supervisor, so you should be well-versed. Do you have anybody else that misses this much time in that shop without having the time off?

Okay, so this is a pretty serious issue with time off that you guys have. You're running a shop, you have the thing, you're making sure you have enough coverage for the work that you have to do, but you have an employee that is excessively requesting time that they don't have available. And is there anything other than verbal... counsel that has been given to this employee to the best of your knowledge as the supervisor of his supervisor oh yeah there's things in writing that that you guys have yeah he has been verbally canceled he's been verbally hasn't been anything he has been given instanc

No, yeah, I agree with that. There's always room for improvement in anything. All of us can always improve. But when it comes to, it's been documented that you have an employee that has an issue with their time off, Has it been recommended to HR? Listen, you need to get up to date on how to request time off, what time you actually have or not. Do you know your employee benefits and whatnot? Do you know the options available to you? Is that something that is being communicated to an employee? How has this been tried to be? Because this is something that we're dealing with one case here on a cer

Sorry, Ms. Puig, before we call you up, I'm going to request a brief two, three minute, maybe like restroom and a little break before we continue with the next. Thank you. While communications is getting ready, if I could just ask both the employee and the city before we introduce the next witness. City, you have this and another witness?

Okay. Okay. And Mr. Davila, you don't have any other witnesses? No, sir. Okay. I want to look at the time because it's 1.20, so I want to see if we kind of come up with a schedule of how much time more or less we need because then we have to make decisions if we take a lunch break or whatnot. Okay. for the sake of how much time. We just can't run through the day to five o'clock and, you know, have board members passing out.

How much time do you think you need for both these witnesses? I mean, if a lot of the questions have been anything like it's been with the first couple of things, it's kind of, there's been a lot of redundancy of ass on the stuff.

I mean, I would say just from your end, and I can ask Mr. Davila on his end, but just a lot of what has come with the first few witnesses has been a lot of redundancy of what it is. It's all from what we've heard. And number one, we have others up here. I'll do it because it's for the management of the time, and we want you to be able to present your case. But there's been a lot of he requested a time. It's not given anything written. It's a bunch of hearsay that it was verbally given that you don't have the time, and we've just heard the same thing over and over from people, and we have befor

Okay. How would the board want to proceed based on what the city is saying on the time that they're going to take? Mr. Davila doesn't have any other witnesses he's saying. So at this point, I'm sure he'd ask some rebuttal questions or whatnot back to these people. But based on that information, how do we want to proceed? Do we want to run through? Do we want to run through a certain point today and then we'll have to continue it to another day based on what they're saying? No matter what, it seems like that's going to have to happen if we break for lunch now because if we're going to run all t

I know that didn't help you at all. I'm sorry? I said I'm okay either way. I know that didn't help you at all. Okay.

You guys want to take a break now, come back, and we'll stay here till five, or do we want to, I'm going to proffer that unless somebody has something else, or we'll go ahead and run through, get as much as we can done today till, let's say, three, or maybe through this witness, if it runs, if we can get both witnesses in, ideally it would, and then maybe come back for closing, or if she wants to question Mr. Davila another day, maybe just run to three. Does that seem reasonable like that? How do you guys prefer it?

This, you guys had plenty of time to discuss amongst yourselves and come to a settlement. Clearly, you came to a settlement before, and now we're here, and we're forced to be here, and we're discussing lunch times for what it is. There's a process on what it is. He has rights. He requested it. We granted it, and we're doing it. I really, it's none of my business, personal business, nor this board, his personal agenda for coming here, or the city's personal agenda. If you had a person that you needed to terminate It looks like what you're accusing of things that needed to be terminated long bef

Perfect. And we're hearing all this stuff to see what it is. If they don't want to come to an agreement, they have their own purview. And honestly, if you want to take it somewhere else outside of here. The way that it's well documented is you have to come here first or arbitration. And you've obviously elected to come here. So in order to get this done, Madam Attorney, those are the cards before us here. I'm not inclined. We already canceled the meeting for July 7th. So if it's going to take place, we're going to schedule it in. At that point, if we've got to continue on, we'll ask our staff

It seems that as we're taking nine minutes to decide so far how we're going to proceed today, that if we don't get it done today, that July 21st, if it works for both sides, and they can agree that we will be able to profit you, you're next in line for our next date available here at the Civil Service Board. Thank you. With that being said, it seems that the city is saying they need more time than what today is going to allow. So we're basically saying that we're going to decide now as a board if we're going to continue and run through to 3 o'clock and call it a day, or we're going to take a b

Okay. You say you want to run through to 3. Is everybody good with running through to 3? Run it through to three. Let's see what we can get done. And with that, let's not take any more time. I'm sorry, did you want to say something?

Yes, Mr. Chair. I don't know how, if at all, it would affect this, but my term on this board is up on July 9th. And so far, the commissioner that put me here hasn't... hasn't said that he's going to renew me in a new term. So I don't know if being short a member will will create a problem for this hearing, just for the record.

For right now, you're on the board. There's nothing that's been proffered to say that you're not on the board. So that's something that we'll have to cross there. And so if you've taken involuntary PTO time at that point, then they'll have decisions to make and there's consequences for it going on. But thank you for informing of the possibility of that. The city can take that into account in their questioning of their witnesses.

Well, I mean, for right now, you're on the board and there's no indication that you're not on it. So at that point, if they're not, anything could happen between now and then. So with that, I will say that we're going to at least hear this witness. If we can get the other one in or whatever. If not, we'll stop at 3 o'clock. And again, I would urge the city, just as much as I can from up here on On behalf of me and our board, speaking on behalf of our board, if you can concise as much as you can, I think we're getting the points of what has been through. We would like to, speaking as the voice

Perfect, Ms. Puig, if you can please raise your right hand, and do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God. I do. Okay.

If we can, let's just stick to the question he asked, answer it, and not what we're thinking that somebody else was thinking or saying. Let's just skip. Okay.

Okay. She wouldn't have knowledge of it, but go ahead with it.

No, no, wait, so let me just rule on that there. We'll go ahead, and if you want to ask, we'll give you the weight. We understand that she wouldn't have knowledge of why Mr. Rion would or would not say that, but it's well documented there where you're stating, so we'll move on from that.

Board members, questions for our witness?

If I may, just a little out of order, and you can continue with your questioning. Are you responsible for iMiami for the department where Mr. Davila works?

So if an employee in Mr. Davila's department needs access to iMiami and they're having trouble getting it there, you are the point of contact?

The correct protocol is they ask their supervisor, and their supervisor in turn asks you because they need you are the point of contact to be able to get access. Correct.

It's not complicated. You are the point of contact. The superintendent, the director, Jennifer would have to call you to be like, hey, they need access. They got to me. He came into my office and asked me. He doesn't have access. Please give him access. In order for an employee to have access for iMiami, do they need to have an email address in order to reset a password? Is the email address your username?

So if an employee doesn't have a city of Miami email, walk me through again, how do they get access to the iMiami?

How do you get access? How me, if I'm an employee and I don't have a city email, how do I get access there to see my personal information?

So if I'm an employee and I don't have a city email with my city ID number, I go on, that's my username, I go on and I put it, and then Guy sends me a temporary password. Is that correct? Am I following correctly? He would send me a temporary password if I request it.

Okay, but so I can log in with just my employee ID without an email. And the first time that you log in, you're given a temporary password, and then you can update to your address. Now, in the event that you forget your password, how can you get that updated password without having an email address?

Excellent. Thank you. Do you have further questions?

Any other board members have questions for the supervisor there? I want to just follow up. In this case here with his Miami and not having access, as he stated, in that case you're saying you will go to the supervisor or the superintendent? Because I heard you say the superintendent.

Has anybody ever contacted you, any supervisor or anybody, requesting a password or access for Mr. Davila for iMiami? No.

I have a question with what you were saying when you informed him that he didn't have the hours, right? There's much said about you informing him about not having the hours over this infamous phone call that allegedly took place on June 25th through Mr. Hector's phone, right? Is that the proper protocol to inform an employee verbally, right? Whether they're approved or disapproved of vacation time. Like walk me through normal employees within their normal hour, within their hours, right? Request 40 hours and they have them. How do you inform them? Do you verbally go by when you're walking by t

How do you go to their supervisor? Do you call them?

Let me give you an example. Rionda requests... X number of hours off. He's got to make that request, if I'm following directly, to the superintendent, right? That would be his direct supervisor. So he would request, boom, boom, boom. The superintendent doesn't really know his hour situation, similar situation, right? Puts in, he's requesting X number of hours. He sends it in. He might even put it in that calendar. He's going to be off because he looks, he goes, that works, yeah, I approve it at my level because I have coverage for my responsibilities. Sends it in. When you receive it and you g

So you don't approve, but you're the one checking if they have availability. If they have availability. Okay, so then help me to understand. Who is the final person? the final baptism to say, it's approved. It went to the supervisor. They said, I got coverage. I got people that can manage cranes or mechanics that can handle it. And then you say, this is within their employer rights. They have it. Who do you send it to to then say, please?

Oh, okay, okay. So then, so Rionda, in this scenario, next week, next month, once time off, he's going to send, is it Superintendent Paz? Pau. Pau. He sends Superintendent Pau. I'm requesting this time. Superintendent Pau sends you a message and says he's requesting eight hours in this example that I'm giving. You look and you go, he's got eight hours. So you send back to Pau and you go, He's good to go. Or you see him verbally and you go, hey, Rionda, he's going to enjoy the eight hours. He's going to take the eight hours. That's how it works. And then, this is what you're telling me. I want

OK. But in this case, Pau, you tell him, yes, he's good to go with the eight hours. You could tell him verbally. And now, Pau is the one that ultimately then, I guess, approves and can say, hey, I put in the hours. I got the coverage. I sent it up to Puig. Puig said, you're covered with the eight hours. Now I'm coming back and I am giving the final approval. Here you go. And then is that, in your experience, when you request time off, you have a supervisor. Do they give you a verbal, you're good to go, enjoy your vacation, enjoy your time off? Or do they send you...

Enjoy your days off, whatever you're doing. Those hours off. How does it work?

Does it happen often that employees take personal time off, PTO time?

We're all assuming. Everything that I'm asking you in here is asking you, tell me, on a normal employee, every employee here, you guys are all employees. You're an employee of the city of Miami. How long have you been employed? 18 years. You get a certain amount of vacation time every year. Yes. In those 18 years, do you take your vacation time? I do. Okay. There's a protocol for how you request it, right? Yeah. You send an email or you verbally, you email them. Hey, I would like these days off.

And then how do they approve it? Do they give you a form back? They give you the form back. Yes. It makes sense. I mean, that's just how it would make sense. There's just some kind of, I would want as an employee, give me an email, give me something in writing. Yes, no, I got it. You gave me my time. Yeah, no.

Right. But if you, but also, and I'm going to tell you what everybody that the city's going to put up here, that's been a part of this case. You've been aware of, so you're well informed of a lot of the time, if not all the time, that Mr. Davila has requested off, whether he's entitled to it or not. Yes. Because it will go through right to you. I would imagine, this is not, you don't have 5,000 employees under your thing. I have 172. Okay, out of the 172... Do you recall any other that are taking so much excessive time that they don't have available? Or is this something that you're like at the top of the line? Oh, yeah, this is a person that requests more time.

When you've run into these instances with 170-something employees that come requesting time to you when you run into that, do you inform them in writing or something of their rights, what they do, the proper way you educate them how to do it? Because these people are good at what they do. They're not experts at requesting time off. Clearly, some of them have more issues with how much time and understanding clearly what time they have available or whatnot.

I would recommend to you, if you haven't picked up on it from here, that from now on when employees have that, put it in writing. Put it in writing. CYA. Cover yourself. And you write down, Mr. David, I'm so sorry to inform you, I can't approve this 40 hours because you only have eight available. And this has happened before.

Here it is. Any other questions? We need that accountability from top to bottom when everybody requests it. I'm not going to accept anybody coming up here that's in charge of of times, or reviewing times, and tell me that the way that they request time, I don't care if you work in a donut shop, or if you're working in a body shop, or whatever it is. Everybody has a boss that they have to ask for time off. Even the boss, the head administrator, when he's gonna do time, he is gonna inform, subordinates at that point, and get an approval so that it's clear. Can you imagine positions not being abl

Or another form? Was he given that in writing or just verbally?

I'm not worried about what he's assuming. I'm asking you, was he given the opportunity? Yes, I told him.

Verbally, but not in writing. Right. Verbally. Right, with the supervisors that are on the same team.

You and the two witnesses. For not having that in writing, that's like if the cops get called to my house and I'm going to bring out the witnesses. It's going to be my son one, my son two, and my wife. That's not going to help me very much. That's not going to help the officers responding to it to corroborate. That's not an independent buddy that's not involved in it. We understand that, right? Please, let's document. Let's use the processes that are afforded. We go through a lot of training and stuff to do those things to avoid these hiccups. Nothing else from me.

Is that your next witness? Yes. Okay. That's your last witness? Okay. When we started this meeting, I asked the employee how many witnesses he had. He told me one. When we started this meeting, I asked you how many witnesses you had. You told me five. Five, yes. I'm not very familiar with how to ask for PTO time here in the city or with iMiami, but I'm pretty good at counting. The next witness you bring up is the fifth one. So now when you're telling me you're adding witnesses to it.

But across, I mean, when was it requested that he was going to be a witness on what it is?

But he didn't have an attorney and you knew he didn't have an attorney. Not when we were coming to this hearing because it was delayed and it was moved on and you knew that he didn't have an attorney. You knew that he was not represented and he opted not to because you conveniently said that when I asked him if he had other witnesses, you said he didn't ask. If he had more. I asked how many witnesses you had, and you said five. So I'm going to hold you to the five.

Did you inform us that he was one of your witnesses?

Perfect. I'm going to hold you guys as fair as it is. I'm very good at holding everybody fair to that. When I asked if he had any other witnesses... He said, no. When I asked you if he was informed of the witnesses, you said he didn't ask. I asked when we started the meeting how many witnesses. You didn't name him as one of the witnesses. So I went for the record. I'm not holding the city on anything. If that wasn't requested, he wasn't informed, you didn't ask. And I'm sticking expeditiously to what's going on here. And we'll put that for the record.

No, no, nobody's called him as a witness. So there's no cross-examination. But you never proffered him as saying somebody that you wanted. So you're not being denied. Nobody's questioning him. So you're not being denied a cross. He would have to be questioned first in order for me to deny a cross, for the record, when I get called my name in court. And if anybody wants to challenge me, as I've been informed, I know you guys will do a great job of defending me.

Thank you. You're dismissed. Thank you so much, Ms. Quigg. City, would you like to call your last witness?

I will, as the witness is coming up to be introduced and sworn in. Just a time check. We're at 2.22. So as long as you feel that you'll have enough time to ask the questions you do and get this in, if not, I don't want to leave it kind of up in the air on the witness.

Luckily, you have 38 minutes. I'm pretty good with the time as of right now. So give or take, let's say 35. Do you think within that you can finish the time of the question that you need? No. How much time do you think you need with this witness? 45 minutes to an hour with her. Okay, perfect. Well, then, you know, what a conundrum we have before us. So you need 45 minutes with your last witness, and then, of course, we need time for closing statements. How much time do you think you need for closing statements after you get done with your client?

Another 45 minutes. So you need, let's say, let's err on the side of caution. I want to make sure you have enough time, and we don't need additional time. So an hour with that, 45 minutes, that's about an hour and 45 minutes. Mr. Davila, you would have some questions. The board needs some time. So it seems that we have maybe about three hours or so left based on your best guess on what you can do between the questioning there, the cross that I have to allow him because I don't want him to say that I don't want him to cross, and then our questioning, and then we'll go into closing arguments, an

Well, that's something that I guess both sides have to take into account when we can't control that. Hopefully we don't lose more than one.

We've given our full attention to this hearing here today. So... All I can do is ask. I can say, yeah, that could be a risk. The city understands that, right? The board could change and we might have to take another way. If you don't feel that you can, you know, come to some kind of a resolution and you guys, what else can we do? I can't stop the time. I wish I could.

I'm only going to say this because I want to get it out there. This request for leave form, this is a document. It's inconceivable to me that anywhere, we have several attorneys here. Have you ever been in a mediation, in a negotiation, through any legal procedures where you change documents that have been signed by individuals and then You don't provide those individuals with corrected documents? That doesn't exist. That doesn't exist. That's exactly what has gone here. This is a gross violation.

Board Member Soleiman, if I can just, you know, you're free to, I'm not sure who exactly you're directing or asking the question, but I would think the proper form would be that we decide how we continue this, let the city finish with their witnesses. the questioning, the crosses by the employee, and then after they give their closing statements, we'll have the time to deliberate and bring up with all the facts that were gathered. In fairness, we haven't finished hearing all the facts.

With all due respect, Chair, I may not be here to give this statement, and that's why I'm doing it now. Fair enough. And I'm just letting the city know they got a huge hole. I don't like the fact that the employee has the history he has, and And that's a discussion for another day that the city should consider. But just this point of changing a legal document and not letting know one of the persons that signed this document, that's a gross violation. I think you've got a huge hole in your case. I would suggest you try to get rid of this before the next hearing. Just my personal opinion. Thank

with, I mean, and I have a feeling you'll be with us in the next meeting, but that'll be a time, you know, listen, we have, the city's calling another witness, and it's the director of the department, so that's somebody else that can answer to, I'm sure, some of these questions that there's not an exact clarity or an exact structure or protocol to the time off and how it's communication, the communication will document it to avoid getting here. So with that, again, the city has its witness. They don't feel they have enough time to conclude within the time period that we have today. So unless s

If I may, when we're proffering the 21st, that's our next available date. If you have a conflict to it, hopefully you have your own personal email address. From what I hear, you don't have a city email address. You have the contact of our board and how to contact our board. You've been in contact with our board. Right now, if you know you can't make it the 21st, you can tell us, hey, I'm not available the 21st. I'm not available. Okay, and then we'll give the next available date, and we'll continue. There's only so much we can do from a board here of giving the availability. And then when that

Well, you know, you might after you hear what she has to ask. So that would be premature for you to say because it's their witness and you don't know what she's going to ask. And maybe you're not going to be in agreement. I could have an objection. Yes. So you don't want to waive that right yet. That would be my.

No. And listen, if you're moving on and you have another job, I hope that if you picked up anything here that you inform them ahead of time in writing and get approval to do it. And you tell them you have a thing that you have to go and get that approved time to be able to come. You don't want to have. No, I don't want to have to go through this all over again. So that's the way it works. And so you can kind of communicate with our office here. I would say the least you say here on the record. You know, and inform people what it is, the better it is for you. Yes, sir. You know, hold your own c

I mean, yeah, yeah, in theory we have the time to go on there, but I mean, other than a bathroom break, I mean, I've been talking up here. I'm a little parched and stuff.

Right. I mean, board, you're free to deliberate on what you guys like. I'm not, you know... I'm one of five, so you know, if everybody wants to go on a fasting program, and it's good with Matt, you know, eating a 10-minute break, grab a snack out there, and then come. I don't think a snack's going to do much for my board member here.

Listen, I think, with all due respect to the attorney, keep on going over and over and asking the same thing of all the different employees. Basically, we all know where we're at. If you could become a little bit more specific, less questions, more basic. I mean, if there's new information, new information. But I just keep on hearing the same rhetoric over and over and over from different people. We already heard it four times.

Sure. And just for the record, to state on what it is, both sides have been given, they were asked how many witnesses. Everybody's been given their rights to call up the witnesses they want. For the record, Mr. Davila has chosen to opt from having a legal representation. He's self-representing himself. And the board is asking him questions directly as he's self-representing himself. Not like a normal client. Normally we would be directing those questions toward Mr. Davila's attorney. just like we ask you questions when it is, just for the record of what it is, and you have not been denied any

That's why I'm saying that I need that opportunity. She puts on the record, and it's important for me to put on the record. So, Mr. Davila, I asked when it was whom he wanted as a thing, and he disclosed that he had one witness. He didn't say that he wanted to testify. He didn't say nothing to that fact. That's why I'm not allowing you to cross somebody that has not been called. You didn't choose to proffer when I asked how many, and I did ask. Unlike him, I did ask how many witnesses you have. And furthermore, in court, things are handled different. Obviously, you know, because you're a lawye

If you could just, they're having trouble hearing you, if you could just reiterate what you just said.

It's open for discussion. The other board members feel any way? For, against, however you want. For? For adjourning. Okay. Well, I mean, we can call a roll, but we got three votes, so I don't think we're...

I think we got it settled. So I think at this point, we will be adjourning. That's the will of the board. And what I would ask is both sides to proffer their availability so that we can continue this. We'll have one witness, the record will show that we have one witness, the director of the department, left by the city. After that, the employee will be able to cross, then it'll be open to the board on that witness, then we'll go into closing statements, and then we'll deliberate. Unless a settlement happens between now and then. But in the meantime, if you guys wanna agree on a date that you b

I would recommend it off the record, but yeah. I don't know where you're working in their protocol, but pretty much anywhere. If you're going to take time off or do something at work, I would probably recommend it. I'll make sure I put it in writing. Yeah, I would. All right. So with that, we'll leave it for... I don't know if you guys want to proffer dates here. Do we take that offline and they just communicate to settle the date? Well, right here. Okay. So is there... Is there a date in mind with our hearings? Number one, does he have access to our hearing list or do you want to give him opt

From what I'm hearing, Mr. Davila is pursuing some other opportunities, and at the very least, I think he's going to need, if anything, a further date out so he has enough time if he gets a new employer, from what it sounds like, from what he's saying, he might have to request some time with adequate time so that he can request time to be able to come here.

Will it take not as long as this, at least? I mean, I think from what we've heard, I think we can get a commitment. We got about an hour from this witness. We got about the time that it takes us to cross, or not cross, you cross. We ask questions and then closing statements. You said you need about 45 minutes. I'm assuming yours might be more brief. So I would say about three hours, would that be fair? That's about an hour and 45, giving about another hour and 15 if we have to deliberate.

City, can you help indicate if there's something that he would want to proffer? He's open to a settlement. Is that something that the city's closed off to?

Can he be given directive if he wants to profit? What is the right channel for him to at least properly document that he's open to sitting down and settling this? What's the proper avenue for him to do that?

You have Mr. Aguirre's contact information? Yes, I do. So please send her that, and then if he does... I will probably ask. If he did send that, then at least he gets to respond that no, we're not willing or no.

Perfect. So with that, you have that option. I would say board, we canceled the board meeting. He says he's available the 7th. Does the 7th work for the city and your witness? Seventh works. Board, do you want to reinstate the board meeting? And then we will continue this hearing on July 7th if the board so chooses.

If it is, I'll entertain a motion to reinstate the July 7th meeting with this hearing on the docket. Motion to reinstate July 7th meeting.

Aye. Aye. We will see everybody on July 7th. and we will continue. First order of this hearing will be with the witness from the city.

Okay, I would properly document that, request it respectfully through the city attorney's office. Just ask, communicate, and I'm sure they'll communicate there and do it. So communicate that to Ms. Aguirre.

But when you send it to Ms. Aguirre. Ramirez. Yeah, please send it to Ms. Aguirre as well. Copy on it so she sees it. So you follow that and it's all documented and everything's covered. You're going to go pick it up and let them give you through email or whatever a time and place to come and get it so you can do it and handle it. And maybe you guys settle on the way. It'll be great. And now we'll see you July 7th here. All right. You guys have a great day. We'll entertain a motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn by Board Member Soliman. Second by Board Member Lanier. All in favor? Thank you, everybody. We'll see you July 7th.