Code Enforcement Board - Regular Meeting

All right thank you for coming to this evening's code enforcement board hearing. This board is empowered to hear evidence in order to reach findings of fact and conclusions of law for the purpose of resolving cases that come before it. A finding of a violation in any case before us may lead to costs being assessed and a daily fine being levied for violations of the villages code of ordinances. The board is always interested in comments or statements that will help us make a determination in each case and we are always interested in compliance rather than levying fines. If you have not already

Oh, yes, yes, I am now. Thank you. Sorry.

All right. Thank you very much. All right. Madam Clerk, do we have anyone present for first hearing?

All right. So we have a case approach the podium, please. State your name and address for the record.

Okay, so we're here for case 10-25-324, code section 15-8, damaging, defacing village property, code section 15-104, specific noise prohibitions. Mike, this is your case.

Is that in in addition to having to replace the a tree on?

Yeah, but the question is will any of those be placed on this property?

Alright, so, yep. Mr. Hornstein, first, do you agree that there's a violation?

Okay, so no. Alright, so please explain your side. You can start whenever you're ready.

Mike, is this an easement or is this Miami Shores property?

Yeah, and I mean we're having from I mean obviously I'm sure you engaged with the arborist before the September 22 date, but I mean we're talking just over a month between the arborist and the removal. That's not, in government terms, that's not enough time. Yeah, but that's not your property and you're not liable for that. It's on Miami Shore's property. It's not your tree.

Yeah, but we're not talking about pruning the tree.

I understand that, but I'm saying we're not talking about pruning the tree. It would have been possibly a different result had the tree been pruned.

Well, because he's not weighing in on the tree. That's what I'm inferring from this, right? Yeah, I don't think I'm not. It's my well, it's Miami it's not yeah, it's Miami Shores property Then why did I have to pay to replace ten sidewalk squares?

Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, but at that point, at some point, you should have escalated to the council or the village manager, you know, like, I'm sorry, but I mean, we're talking a four-week period here between the arborist and the tree removal at most. You know, that's not exhausting all avenues before.

No, no, no. They didn't tell you to get a permit from the county.

It says, as a village does not have a tree removal ordinance, please get in touch with the county tree program for information on county tree requirements. That has nothing to do with... Yeah, but that's not telling you that you have to get a permit from the county. It's not telling you that you can remove the tree. It's telling you who you could possibly discuss with it if it belongs to the county and not the city.

It looks to me like Delroy is not assuming that. It looks to me like Delroy is saying he's not sure who owns the tree.

Well, there's a county ordinance for old growth removal and things like that. So that's what he's saying to investigate further at the county.

Yeah, but the problem is you can't replace – there's no 40-foot tree that you can purchase to replace it.

Well, I mean, had you given the, if they had had the arborist, I don't know the schedules, you know, like I said, it's small government, 30 days isn't going to be enough to cut anything. So if the arborist had then come out with your arborist inspection and inspected the tree itself and then said, you're right, the tree is diseased, it needs to come down. different story right even if you did it without permission at that point still different story right because the city saying yeah we agreed that the trees diseased. Right now we have an arborist report that doesn't say anything about the tree being diseased it just describes the dimensions of the tree. It shows this at my office reports of the yeah but it's not the city's arborist the city arborist could have a differing opi

It's not really something that the city had to convey to you, though, right? You were expressing your concerns about a tree that they own on their property, and then it's up to them to decide what to do with their tree.

Well, the thing is you can't plant a tree there.

Yeah, but it's not even about paying to have it done, right? It's up to the city to plant a tree on there.

Well, there are some maintenance tasks that you as the adjoining property are required to do, like mow the lawn, keep it clean.

I think this is a complicated situation and we could spend the next hour talking about what Mr. Hornstein should have done and whose fault it was and whether the village didn't do what they were supposed to do or did do what they were supposed to do. But that's not going to really change anything. I'd like to progress to the point where we start to talk to Mr. Hornstein about what we can do to fix it.

Yeah, so right now the arborist, correct me if I'm wrong, Mike, the arborist is requesting donating to the city 10 number one oak trees that are 12 to 14 foot tall.

Okay, with a three-inch wide trunk. Okay, and did he happen to mention what he estimates the cost for each one of those is? No. No, okay. All right, so at this point, that's where we're at, right? So the city is requesting the penalty would be to purchase 10 number one... Florida oak trees, 12 to 14 foot tall with a 3-inch wood caliber, which I'm assuming he means diameter trunk.

What's going to happen is the village is going to buy the trees and plant them, and then Mr. Hornstein is going to repay the village. Correct. So I don't know how we can come up with a price tonight.

Well, I think the city usually does it this way with the donate because you can source and make your own deals for trees. They also will offer you up the people that they purchase from at that price if you can't find a better price. If I remember this happening in the past.

But we're bearing the cost of them planting the trees and then maintaining the trees until they take hold. Correct.

Approximately, does anybody have any idea how long that would take?

I want to put the tree back. How long would it take for public works to finish that process?

What I would suggest is that, what I would suggest, and we can have a vote on this, what I would suggest is we table this until he can have a meeting with the arborist. and they can come up with a plan because, like he's saying, if he's going to pay for, you know, 10 trees, maybe he gets the arborist to say, well, put two on your fronts on that area. Or, you know, I mean, or maybe he says, okay, I'll agree that it was diseased and we'll go to eight trees. And, you know, we then either come to an agreement with that or we come back and vote on it again.

He's specified a specific species of tree because the arborist is trying to change some of the issues with the city's trees.

Mr. Chair, I don't see how Mr. Hornstein can agree to write a blank check. I mean, he may be willing to.

So here's, I'm going to make the suggestion that like you suggested, we table this until next month. So that Mister Hornstein can get in touch with public works and they can tell you what they feel it's going to take and give you an opportunity if you know to accept that deal or contest that deal yeah I I would specifically say with the arbors and I think entries is a little excessive because I mean I mean from I mean it was a dead tree yeah well because our situation here is that we've either got to adjudicate this case tonight and it very likely may go against you Or come back in a month and

You know, we're kind of... Narrow in our focus, you know, I understand I've been listening to you But you know, we have a code violation in front of us and we've got a limited number of options We can either find you innocent we can find you guilty and start imposing a fine tonight which will be a lien on your property and Or we can table it and come back and try to settle it next month. I'm going to move, if it's okay, that we table this until next month.

That's fine with me. Just modify the motion that it requires a meeting with the arborist.

What is his schedule? He's not full-time with us.

And you'll put Mr. Herrnstein in contact with him? Sure. Okay, excellent. Okay, so you modified the motion.

All right. We can do, we'll call roll on that one. Madam Clerk, would you call roll?

Yes. All right. So, you know, we've kicked the can down the road, so hopefully you can have a productive meeting with the arborist, and hopefully it's enough time. You know, I think with the holiday season, I know we're going to lose a week in the middle of there, but hopefully it'll be good. All right. All right. Thank you. All right.

All right. All right. I'm trying to think of our schedule. Yeah. Okay.

All right. Madam Clerk, do we have anyone else present for first hearing? No, sir. All right. At this time, Chair observes that there have been no appearance by anyone on behalf of the alleged violators in connection with case 0524319. case 0525127, case 0725193, case 0925287, and case 0925288. Mr. Director, do the case files on all of these matters contain affidavits attesting to the existence of the code violations alleged and demonstrating proper notice to the alleged violators of tonight's hearing?

All right. At this time, I will entertain a motion for summary adjudication.

Mr. Chair, I move for summary adjudication of all such cases to include a finding of fact and a conclusion of law that a violation exists as charged in the representative notice of violations issued. In each such case, the offending party shall contact the I'm sorry, shall correct the violation within the time period specified by staff in the staff's recommendations for these hearings and immediately notify the code enforcement officer when the property is brought back into compliance. In each such case, if the violation is not brought into compliance, within such time period, the code enforce

Do I have a second? Second. All right, Madam Clerk, would you call roll?

Yes. All right. Thank you very much. Do we have anyone present for second hearing?

All right. Also on tonight's agenda, as a matter of staff's request for orders imposing previously adjudicated fines as a penalty for lack of timely compliance with the Board's prior orders, I will now call the penalty cases on the agenda. case 052538, case 032569, case 0825222, case 0825225, case 0825233, case 0825242, case 0825248, case 0825250, case 0825255, case 0825260, case 0825262, and case 0825243. Mr. Director, the files in all these penalty cases contain an appropriate affidavit demonstrating in each such case the violations referenced in your request continue to exist subsequent to

All right. I will now entertain a motion to impose fines.

All right. Do I have a second? You still have a second. We still have a second. Excellent. Madam Clerk, would you call roll?

Yes. All right. Madam Clerk, do we have anyone present for a request for relief?

All right, if you would approach the podium and state your name and address for the record.

All right, so. We are here for case 1094-2022, weather watertight structures, unsightly house exterior, unauthorized storage of materials, fine amount $58,850, fine amount $2,200, fine amount $2,200. Case 1224-2020, housing violation and unsightly house exterior maintenance of private space, fine amount $54,300, fine $2,400, fine $2,400. Case 1023357, unauthorized construction, expired permits, fine amount $18,000. The grand total is $188,350. The amount proposed is $1,500. Please explain why we should accept your offer.

All right. And your relation to the property is you're just helping her or you're purchasing the property?

Okay. And is the property currently for sale?

So the, the issues prior to 2022, so the 21 and earlier issues, they aren't on here. Um, was that a reasonable accommodation? Was there a, an agreement with the city to A lot of times when an existing property has violations and a ton of liens and fines on it, the city will enter a reasonable accommodation with the new purchaser and that's usually when they give them six months to bring the property into compliance and basically waive most or all of the fines. Is that what the property was originally?

Mike just got back. Maybe he could verify if there's a reasonable accommodation.

Okay, do you remember if this was a reasonable accommodation? It seems like it would have been. don't recall any reasonable accommodation you don't okay all right yeah and honestly it would be it would be better for you if it wasn't a reasonable accommodation because it kind of the you know the point of the reasonable accommodation is to severely reduce the fines allowing the property to get sold and it's kind of the the stick with the carrot right to make sure that the property doesn't continue to languish in this situation

All right, let's run through and see if the board has any more questions for them, and then we can bring them up.

Now I know what this is now. I know which house this is now. Yeah. Do we have any other questions or comments? All right. Do we have... Yeah. Yeah. If we have a, yep, I just need you to swear in. You didn't swear in. Judalyn, can you swear him in real quick? All right.

It was just those two. All right, please state your name and address for the record.

Yeah, yeah, we'll come back around. Yeah, we'll come back around. All right, please approach the podium and state your name and address for the record.

Yeah, what's the name of the company? Element Construction Group.

I have some questions. I have some questions. All right, hold on.

Okay. Do you have questions for him or for somebody? Okay, go ahead.

Question. Mike, do you have the ability to access the internet from where you're sitting? Do you know how to go to the county clerk's website and tell me if there's currently a mortgage recorded on this property?

I'm going to do that. Ms. Miranda, is there currently a mortgage on the property? Who's holding the mortgage?

You answered my question about five minutes ago. Thank you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. I don't think we have any more questions for you. Maybe do.

All right. Do we have any other questions or comments?

Judalyn, if I were to ask you a question, could we have a short recess for that question? Sure. I think it would be best to. OK. Let's do two minutes real quick. I just need to. All right. We're back in session. Thank you very much. Going back to the board. Does anyone have any other questions?

All right. And I'm sorry. from Element Construction. Who paid for the demolition? You did, okay. And is that coming out of the purchase price or is that on top of the purchase price?

Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Step up to the podium. Sorry. She can't hear you on the recording. Better?

Have you entered into any agreement that when you eventually build this house and sell it, that if you meet certain financial objectives, that there's any further compensation to the seller?

All right, any further discussion? All right, hearing none, if you would re-approach the podium. So we are here for a fine amount of $188,350. The amount proposed is $1,500. Is that your best and final offer?

I mean, it's already been entered into evidence. So how long would you need to pay the $1,500?

30 days, 60 days, 90 days? 30 days. 30 days? Okay. The amount proposed is $1,500, payable in 30 days. Do I have a motion? All right. I move that receiving $36,000 payable in 90 days that we would accept. All right. Madam Clerk, would you call roll or any further discussion, actually? Sorry. What was the number, sir? $36,000 in 90 days.

You can counter. If you want to amend or you want to make your own motion. I have a second. You want to call roll, Madam Clerk?

Yes. All right. All right. Do I have anything else? No. Okay, hearing none, the motion failed to carry. All right, I'm sorry, but you can reapply for the next month.

There was no motion to accept your offer. And I made a board proposal offer that didn't pass.

It's one, two, three, six opinions. They all differed, I guess, and nobody wanted to approve it. You can reapply for the December. All right, Madam Clerk, do we have anyone else present for a request for relief?

Please state your name and address for the record.

All right, so we're here for case 1024499, weather watertight structures, depreciation, maintenance of private space, failure to maintain sidewalk, unauthorized construction. The fine amount is $55,500. The amount proposed is $2. Please explain why we should accept your offer.

All right. Yeah, hold on one second. Okay. All of this is stemming from... If you had talked to code enforcement, as soon as you applied for the permit, this would have been put on hold, and as long as they saw that the things were continuing to go through the process, none of these things would have been incurring fines. The thing here is that... The reason we're here is because... You didn't have any contact for the NOV and no contact with the enforcement order with code enforcement. I'm not admonishing you of that. I'm just saying that next time, don't just ignore it. If you show him, right

That's all right. Well, we do that. Mr. Karen. Yes. Are you planning to live in this house, or is this an investment?

No, I mean, did you buy it at a foreclosure sale on the courthouse steps, or did you buy it from the previous owner?

If I'm not mistaken, it was being foreclosed.

Yeah. Mike, I see on the sheet that the compliance dates on these violations was January of this year. Okay, so when did you first identify these violations? Okay, so October of 24. They changed the way they do their case numbers.

Uh, well, then. Why do you think it shouldn't be before us? It has open violations.

So I think we're going to have to have this conversation with Mr. Caron in a few months when the violations have been closed out. We cannot... if what Mr. Order is saying is correct, and he's pretty good with his stuff, we cannot entertain this kind of a discussion as long as any of these violations are still uncured, which is not the same thing as saying that we won't consider it, but we can't consider it tonight, if I'm understanding this. Is that pretty much what everybody else understands how this works? So basically, so we just wasted everybody's time for the last

The violation, not finishing the house and not getting your permits closed out. I'm saying you need to get the violations closed.

Just dragging on. Just one second. Julian, what would be the board's opportunity to re-adjudicate the enforcement order? Because this would have been a summary adjudication. No, I understand why he's here right now. But what I'm saying is that we could table this until later in the meeting, finish our next request for relief, and then enter into a discussion to re-adjudicate the original enforcement order. That's my question to you, if that's a possibility. Because I personally, I mean, we could vote on it at a later date. So what I'm saying is we could table this. That way we're not making th

Well, it's still in an enforcement order because he hasn't finished it. So we're not technically at a request for relief. So it's still in an enforcement order.

It would have been the order. Yeah. So why don't we do this? All in favor of tabling this until after the next request for relief, say aye. All opposed, say nay. Aye. Ayes have it. Okay. So if you just give us an indeterminate amount of time to figure this out. Yeah.

No, no, no. We're going to try to swing back around to this today. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, yeah. We're just going to not make. I don't know whose name this is. Elizabeth Shallow. Okay. Ms. Shallow, we're not going to make her wait for us to figure this out. So is this the next case? Okay. Ms. Shallow, if you would approach the podium and state your name and address for the record, and then we can take care of you.

Hold on. Just give me one second. Let me get the housekeeping out of the way. So we have case 1314-2022, unauthorized construction, expired permit. The fine amount is $37,800. The amount proposed is $1,500. Now you can explain why we should accept your offer. I'm sorry.

All right, so you did have a permit, and it just was an expired permit?

All right, and to close out the permit, what did you have to do?

All right, did they do the work again, or did they just have an engineer sign off on the work and all that?

And this was just an expired permit. She had pulled the permit and it was expired. Right.

Yeah, because the title company didn't want to override it? Yeah, of course not. What was the sale price?

Okay. All right, do we have any other discussion from the board? All right, so we are here for a fine amount of $37,800. The amount proposed is $1,500. Is that your best and final offer? All right, and how long would you need to pay?

Let's do 30 days. Yeah, we deal in nice round numbers. All right. So moved. I'm actually going to make a motion for $500 payable in 30 days.

Ma'am, any further discussion? No. Ma'am, clerk, would you call roll?

Yes. All right. Thank you very much. um you won't be able to get the estoppel letter till next week so you know so it'll it'll take a few days for them to get me the paperwork to sign everything but it'll be there for closing yeah you'll need that letter for closing yeah the title the title might be willing to write over it because of the hearing but most of the time they want the estoppel letter you're welcome all righty so we are finished that do we have anyone else present okay perfect oh this is this this was the thick one oh the thick one all right If you would state your name and address

Perfect, thank you. All right, so we're here for case 03-23-128, unauthorized construction, expired permits. The fine amount is $20,900. Please explain why we should accept your offer.

All right. now i'm just gonna the the city ordinances with the value amount that's required for permits can almost essentially we it's you guys are doing work without permits all the time everybody in miami shores does right it's like it's like i think it's 150 right is the threshold to require a permit $100, yeah. Change your light bulb. Yeah, if you have like a mercury arc light, it would be more than $100 to change the light bulb. So, you know, I would just... I mean, he opened up a big can of worms here with the, you know, because docks are even more touchy. What he thought was a good deed

How many units are in the property? Eight. Eight.

How much is it now? There has to be. Well, we don't have to have a threshold.

Okay so everything you do now requires a permit. Because if they did a strike through they changed it to zero dollars so anything above zero dollars requires. I think we have to write a letter. Yeah, but it seems like they've edited it and just changed the amount. Yeah, we're back on track. I'm sorry. We can have that discussion later in the meeting. Do we have any questions or comments from the board?

Well, it sounds to me they had to reduce their projection into the canal. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, and correct me if I'm wrong, but usually when you set the compliance deadline when you've not heard anything, and that's why we have this 524.

Okay, do we have any other discussion? All right, hearing none, we have a fine amount of $55,500. The amount proposed is $2. Wait, no, sorry, I'm on the wrong sheet.

Yep, okay, so we're here for $20,900. The amount proposed is $500. Please, is this your best and final offer?

All right. And how long would you need to pay? We could pay this immediately. 30 days? Yes. All right. The amount proposed is $500, payable in 30 days. Do I have a motion?

I move that upon receipt of $3,000 within 60 days that the lien on this property be released.

All right, Madam Clerk, would you call roll?

Yes. All right, so what has happened is that your motion, your proposal didn't pass. Mr. Pearl made his own proposal of $3,000 payable in 60 days. You can choose to accept that and pay that within the 60 days, or you can come back at a later meeting within the 60 days or after the 60 days and try for a different amount if you guys so choose.

Well, we're not at the lien reduction because the case isn't closed.

But it wouldn't be in essence the same as the conditional mitigation process that we do? Yes. But it would just be for an existing owner, not for the new owner? Yes.

Okay, so we have a process. I don't know if everybody's been here during this. There's a process that used to be ran by the village manager. It's a conditional mitigation. So in an effort to get a... derelict property back into proper shape and Miami Shores with people occupying that the new person, typically, and it's always been up to possibly the state, a new owner where there is a fee applied and then the liens are held in abatement and as long as you produce, you know, in six months the house is completed, a year, whatever it is, and then the liens are vacated, right? But it's an upfront

Let me ask a question. Okay, on these conditional liens, Yes. Doesn't, in fact, the lien stay on the books until the whole thing is finished? It's not that the lien is waived. So... So let me finish. And if that's the case, that's my understanding that, you know, with the conditional mitigation is a way to get around making a settlement where there is an open violation. People come in and they say, I can't buy this property and fix this with all these liens on it. So we say, okay, fine. You know, we come to a settlement the typically the new owner pays the village a fee up front and then when

Yeah. So that's part of the process. Yeah. It's not just the active violations. It would also be violations that previously existed that had money attached.

Right. Right. So are the liens going to is the county clerk going to.

Well, it almost assuredly would still come up. He would have the estoppel letter saying that at some point in time it won't. Well, that's what I'm saying.

I just wanted to make sure that we were not spinning our wheels here. Okay. So we could help him.

So I would move that we go forward with a conditional mitigation process being that the owner has made all efforts to pull permits and Do demo and things like that. And if it had been caught earlier, we would have been in this process. I feel like this is something that we have done before in conditional mitigation. It's just we've never done it with the existing owner before. But we've definitely vacated liens against the property with the conditional mitigation process. more money than this. I have a question too.

Yeah, I mean, my preference would have been, but you're correct, my preference would have been to re-adjudicate this, but the problem is we're too far down the line. There's already the lien attached. If we were able to catch this earlier, I would have re-adjudicated this, but I think you are correct. We're too far down the path to do that. But if staff has any input on, you know...

Back on the record? All right, we're back on record. Thank you very much, everyone. I forgot where we left off. Who was asking questions?

No, I understand. And this is why we'll vote on it. But my plain text reading of, you know, even our intro and everything is that we are here... not to necessarily uh like the fines are not what we're here for right like we're here to ensure that miami shores is a nice place to live and you know we want compliance you know rather than loving fines this is like the plain text reading so that that's this would be why i would be uh interested in in proceeding with um some way to abate this to ensure because uh i i'm you know, to ensure that somebody gets a chance to live in their house in Miami S

Yeah, because... Will that show permits that are in progress that aren't approved?

Mike, can you tell us where it was served at?

Let's see, because we wouldn't have, so if you were here earlier during the meeting, that during summary adjudication for notice of violations, we ask if it's been posted. The answer is always yes, and they have documents. Then for the summary adjudication for the enforcement order, we ask the same thing, if it's been properly noticed, which is certified mail and everything. So we should have this.

Yeah, so it was properly sent and posted, but, you know, they...

But it's not currently listed as a historic property.

Yeah, with a deed restriction for a historic property. I understand.

Do you want to proceed with it? Yeah, I think we've had enough. Bear, you got some?

Just a little bit. I have two comments and a question. I know. Every time we meet here, one of the first things that we say is that this is about compliance and not about fines. And I agree with that 100%. But fines are the only tool we have in our toolbox. If there were no fines, I can guarantee you we would be the only people sitting here at this meeting tonight. Nobody would ever come for any reason. And unfortunately... This situation is not that unusual, given the complexities of doing projects like this. So I think when we come down our list, it's either got to be unusual or inequitable.

Yeah, so it's just not something he can do in a week or 2 weeks. No. Okay.

The only the only and just to the only reason why I think it's. unique is that, and feel free, staff, if I'm incorrect, but they have started the process from, they were actively working on the process of getting the house renovated, it just seems to me that there was the gap in communication. There's been due diligence for everything else. We're not here complaining about that they did work without a permit or they're ignoring and they bought the property and started working on getting the permits. the notice of violation and the enforcement order got missed, and which often happens, which ho

He's got himself in a bind. So in terms of structuring the response to this, what does anybody have in mind? What do you need? You need to refinance. He needs a construction loan. He needs a construction loan. There's a lien on the house.

The mortgage companies, the financing companies are not going to do anything. If we make a deal here tonight... He'll get an estoppel letter. Okay, fine. Now, if I'm understanding your idea, that means that we agree with Mr. Karin that let's say everything will be finished and fixed within, I don't know, a year, two years? What would you need time-wise?

Well, I think in the previous mitigations we've done, and this is to kind of keep it active, we would set, I would, if I were to make the motion, set it at six months with possible extensions

That's the exact same thing as a conditional mitigation. It's a conditional mitigation. The process is we take an upfront fine, a fee. The lien stays at exactly the amount it is of the $55,500. if the conditions aren't met in the mitigation this will return the fine or fee that is is gone that that this amount comes back as exactly the way it was well actually it'll be more well it would be more because it would have continued to grow yes yes

Yeah, and that's the vote we will have first, whether or not it meets that barrier, right? So the first vote, if we would have a vote, whether or not that it meets that barrier first. that we can then proceed with the conditional mitigation. Then we would enter into the discussion, if it passed, that we would enter in what conditions we would put on the conditional mitigation. And then that would have to be a separate vote.

It's not a conditional mitigation. It is a conditional mitigation. No, it's 100%.

There's no difference between the one owner and the second. And this is my argument, that there's no difference that we can enter into a conditional mitigation on a property that has violations that will continue to have violations. The only difference is whether or not it's changed hands. Because all the previous conditional mitigations that we've had is that the property has changed hands. That's the only difference here, right? Because those properties were in violation, continued to be in violation for a set amount of time after the conditional mitigation. And the entirety of the point was

Does the distinction between the owners?

We cannot enter into the lien mitigation only occurs if the property is in compliance.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is to not go that route. My motion would not be for that route. My motion would be to enter into the conditional mitigation.

If the code says that, that it requires a change in ownership. My question was.

Before the board, what's before the board is nothing because this could not come before the board. So what's before the board is what we're making a motion to put in front of the board because this request for relief is invalid, right? So we're already outside of the request for relief.

Okay, so that's what I'm asking. So there's a requirement for the property to change hands for the conditional mitigation process? Yes.

No, I mean that we are the final determination of whether or not it is, but we should seek advice by counsel and staff, which we've done.

Well, we would have to vote on whether or not we think it's exceptional enough to continue with the next step. That's the first vote that has to occur.

It's the first time, but we're not trailblazing. It's the first time, but there are caveats left out in the code for this.

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MIKE ABOUT HIS QUESTION. GIVEN THAT YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY AND THE FLEXIBILITY TO GIVE PEOPLE EXTENSIONS WHEN YOU SEE THAT THEY ARE ACTIVELY WORKING ON CORRECTING A VIOLATION, I'm trying to read between the lines here.

If we did this, you know, like you said, what's to stop you from going out tomorrow and citing him brand new? Based on your experience with this property, is that something that you think would be appropriate?

Not really. Okay, so he has been cooperating and working and so on. You don't have any particular issues?

I would absolutely not expect or ask him to do such a thing. But my point to that, I mean, if that would reset, if we're going that route, then that would reset the clock. It wouldn't be a hindrance to him. We would still be in the process. But I think what Barry was asking is that... I think we got a little confused there. I think Barry is asking if the... If Mike has any concerns about the property that would have prohibited him from giving him extensions had they been in contact. Correct.

But specifically this project and this owner, if they had been in contact with you, you would have continued to give extensions.

Not with me. Yeah, not with me. It's not Mike's responsibility to chase after the building department and correct the owner to get it.

So I move that there are Extreme circumstances that would allow us to proceed in discussions about mitigating this lien. All right. You want to call roll or should we do ayes and nays? No, let's just call roll. It'll be easier.

Yes. All right. So at this point, we can entertain a motion to what would our motion be right?

That's the hard one. Well, we could, we could, we could, we have a suggestion. for something that's still open so we can we can entertain a reduction in the amount for the existing fines knowing that I mean, in all honesty, code enforcement should go back and start the process all over again if we were to do this, right? So tomorrow, Mike could go over there and start this process again, but as long as he stays in contact, there shouldn't be any issues. Correct. So we need...

Well, no. So we've stopped the lien. If this motion goes, it basically ceases the lien and the violations at this date for whatever we agree upon. And if Mike were to go back over there and start the process all over again tomorrow, that would be a completely separate process with a new case number.

That's my understanding of what we're able to do.

It wouldn't have the same thing with the conditional mitigation where we charge you a fee up front, but this would still stay attached and would reappear if something didn't happen.

Yeah, I mean, what she's saying is that we could just make the fine amount, the $55,500 payable in 180 days or something, you know what I mean? And we'd get the estoppel letter, and he would be able to...

Do we have any other, anybody else want to chime in, discuss anything?

I mean, I would direct staff to re-inspect the property tomorrow.

What happens if you can't get financing?

Well, that's a problem for future Barry.

watertight structures and some things that, you know, might not currently have a permit attached to them and things like that. There would possibly be issues with, I mean, definitely watertight. Yeah, and we're not, we don't go and inspect the property. So that would be up to staff to figure out what's, you know.

the lien reduction is is for layman's terms for me to understand that is that basically a brokering a deal where going from 55 5 well that's yeah that would be that we would proceed with in essence the request for relief the the lien would stop we would process uh this uh i mean for all intents and purposes it's just a request for relief with different steps um That's all. It would be a reduced fine. You would pay the fine, whatever we agreed upon, within the amount of time you would receive an estoppel letter. And I want to make it clear, the extreme circumstances that I'm willing to go throu

So that's the only reason I'm not normally a person that likes to jump through extra steps.

The easiest thing, unless there's a structurally different process, we would proceed as if it was a request for relief asking the same questions and voting in the same manner.

I was just double checking that that's the process that I would use because that's what we're familiar with all right so do we have any further discussion no all right hearing none we have a fine amount of fifty five thousand five hundred dollars the amount proposed is two dollars is that your best and final offer no I have to put my best foot forward here I'm kind of very vulnerable about what I'm gonna say here I would love to have to squash this and be done but I I

Okay, so how long would you need to pay?

The 60 days. The amount offered is $10,000, payable in 60 days. Do I have a motion? I see. I'll move that one because I made the mess. Second. Second. All right. Do we have any further discussion? No. All right. Hearing none, Madam Clerk, would you call roll?

Yes. Board Member Pearl? No. Board Member, sorry, Chairperson Hubert? Yes. All right. So the motion carried. So $10,000 payable in 60 days. Definitely don't pay that late. No. late next week we should be able to get you in a stop a letter yeah i don't really know what that is so i'm going to stop by and talk to code enforcement yeah talk to well and the clerk as well i i just have to reference but don't don't yeah don't even bother trying to talk to the clerk until at least tuesday

It just says that the lien has been officially vacated, even if it shows up in the computer and your title company will be able to overwrite it. In essence, in layman's terms, that's what it is.

And the next thing is I'm going to move that we request staff to reinspect the property at its earliest convenience. Okay. Do I have a second? Second. All in favor say aye, all opposed say nay. Aye. Ayes have it. All right, thank you.

Mr. Caron, just one thing. I voted no on this. It has nothing to do with you. People come and talk to us all the time, and you are by far one of the most credible people I've heard in a long time. My reason for voting against it is... was strictly technical. Understood. It got nothing to do with you or the merits of your case.

Yeah, I believe Barry was afraid that we've opened a new precedent. I understand.

Thank you. All right. I believe we have three individual minutes. Do we do them individually or should we do them all in one thing? All right. Do I have a motion to approve said minutes?

I cannot approve the June minutes because I wasn't here.

We have a motion to approve and we have a second. All opposed say nay. Do we have any further discussion? Do I have a motion to adjourn? Do I have a second? All in favor say aye. Meeting is adjourned. Please let me know when we're off the record.