Planning and Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon. It's 6.01 p.m. Wow, this is loud. Okay. Can we have a roll call?

Thank you very much. Um, the first item in the agenda is a town commission liaison report. I don't know if we have a liaison. OK. And now what is going to take that portion?

Well, he's going to be acting like more than liaison. He's the town attorney, so.

Right. Let's wait for that portion. Great. Thank you. Thank you very much. APPROVAL OF MINUTES. LAST TIME WE LEFT THE APRIL 30th MEETING PENDING.

EXACTLY. SO BOARD MEMBERS, WE NEED TO APPROVE, REJECT COMMENT ON THE APRIL 30th.

A motion to approve the minutes from April 30th.

Now let's go to the meeting, meeting minutes on May 28th. May 28th, anyone?

And now we go to number four if we want to discuss any order of business in here?

It was good information. However, I think these design guidelines I don't like the name, guidelines. I think suggestions and recommendations. I think that we are really here to be the cheerleader of anybody that wants to do work to a house or wants to build a building or wants to tear down and build a new house. I think we're here to say, yay, we want you to do that. We want the improvement. And I think that this stymies people. I think it takes out their own creativity. I think it takes the creativity away from us. I think that the town planner's role is kind of set where she comes to the boa

And I do appreciate, I think we all appreciate your input in here. I do appreciate clarifying the role of the board and the board members. I happen to strongly agree with Mrs. Bomell on the design guidelines. However, this is what we have so far, right? So we have to take it to the next step.

I mean, but how do we place it verbally that we want to put a resolution, which is a recommendation to the commission?

Very good information, thank you very much. Okay. Let's move.

Yes. I was gonna say, let's move to the speakers.

Yes. George was like, you know, like, I'm here, I'm here.

And let's move on let's go to the applications, I'm sorry you don't want to make a motion to I don't know if it's in the form of a motion. To make a recommendation. To the Commission. A resolution.

Can this be done at the commission level without us, without our recommendation, so they don't have to wait for us? Meaning these can be revisited?

And that would expedite the process because they don't have to wait for us.

I think that where these guidelines were last let off was that there was some conditions attached, and that was before we were here. That's the first thing. I don't remember exactly what the wording was, but it was, there was some kind of conditions with it.

But I think I distinctly remember that they were taking the photos out and they were gonna do drawings.

That was another condition, I agree. Yeah.

And actually, to add that some color, because that would be offensive to some neighbors. Yes.

I found that offensive. I really did. This is not what you should do. I just don't think you talk to people like that.

I think that we should, even as this group sitting here, that we should have it on our agenda as well as the commission agenda so it doesn't get bounced back to us. Yeah, I see this like working in parallel.

Well, what is the language that I should be using because I want to get that ball rolling immediately, so is it a motion?

George, are you listening to that? Because I'm going to make a motion that on the next agenda, we have a resolution, a formal resolution put together, and do we want to revise or get rid of?

Can we just make it a simple two-liner? Yeah. A resolution.

I want a motion to bring the language as is.

Well, it's not necessarily, how about revision?

Madam Clerk, can you read the motion again, please?

Do you want to do that? Do you want to add the word revision and role of the design guidelines? Revision and role of the design guidelines.

Great. Thank you very much. Again, very informative. I appreciate that.

At the end, okay. So now we go to applications.

Thank you. And another nine. Yep. Yeah, afternoon. Good enough, no other motions for new business or anything? Let's go to applications and now to an attorney. Very good, good afternoon, good evening.

Yes, I have. Mr. Rose called me and explained to me the intent of this design tonight.

If I can interrupt you just for a second, my apologies. I do understand that signs are not the preview anymore, so now we come back to reviewing signs? The previous Commission put it back.

I mean, I'd like to make a motion, if I can, without going through the entire commercial wall sign permit and language, that this be returned to just the town planner again, and not to the Planning and Zoning Board, because I think our conversations went all the way back to eliminating it, because why are we making these people travel from Broward and Palm Beach

So we still need to discuss this? Absolutely. Okay, perfect.

So I need to open the floor for the applicant if they want to discuss.

You don't need to. You don't need to. If you don't want to, you don't need to. Thank you. Anybody else wants to say something about this? Thank you very much. Now let's move.

Back to my motion. Yeah. Move it back to the, what is it, resolution to move back.

Thank you very much. Sorry to waste your time.

And make you travel, I apologize for that.

You got it approved, okay. We go to 9149 Dickens Avenue, Home Addition.

Board members, does anybody want to say, oh, I'm sorry, time attorney? Public, oh, sorry. Does anybody in the public want to comment on this portion? We're close to the public, so now we go to the board members.

That's great. Anybody else, more comments? I have a question, Mr. Rose. I love the fact that you're doing a one-story house. Why not the two-story massive house that you have been doing?

If there are no questions, I need somebody to make the move.

Make a motion to approve Mr. Rose's future new home.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Rose. Congratulations. Item 5C, 9057 Byron Avenue, new single family home.

Thank you very much. If the applicant wants to speak.

I'm sorry I didn't get to see your original design. I said I'm sorry I didn't get to see your original design because I'm a design builder. So I'm very interested in architecture and design. And there's no reason for this to be turned down or denied. Makes me kind of sad that you refined it to accommodate the last planning zoning board, which I don't think I've heard a good story yet. I'm sorry for that.

I don't think people should repeatedly have to come back for something that, you know, a homeowner was looking for and an architect designed for them.

That's what it is. I'm saying exactly that. I wish I had gotten to see his original design.

So do we have any questions or additional comments about this application?

No comments, no questions. No questions. I need somebody to move.

Sorry about that. We open now the floor to public comments. We close the floor. And now, if anybody wants to make a motion.

Thank you very much, thank you very much for your presentation and for going through this.

Now we go to item number six, ordinances.

Thank you. Number seven, next meeting date?

I won't be here. You won't be here? Not to nose?

So let's see if there are others, you know, the other board members. Right. Thank you very much. Great. Discussion items. 8A, future discussion item tracker.

Thank you very much. Do I need to open the floor for public comments? Yeah? Okay, so let's open the floor for public comments.

Thank you very much. We close the floor to the public. Anybody in the board wants to?

Yeah. I agree 100% that James McKenzie's pointing out the fact that it was an enclosure and was it allowable and then we had the law side jump in and then we had the building official jump in. I thought it was a good learning moment for all of us, whether we knew it or not. I thought those are valuable little pieces. And the other thing is, as far as the awnings, I think it's a very interesting subject, too. I agree. I do believe that if somebody wants to put an awning in, I think somehow, maybe, and I could be wrong, that there should be kind of cohesive decision making. on awnings up and dow

George, don't you remember they were going to paint the streets or something?

Shall we add an item for discussion pertaining to what we want to see in the commercial district?

Well, that gives us two months to think about.

I mean, is it really something that you study the most successful outdoor style streets or malls like Palm Beach, Hesworth Avenue? And I think it's beautiful. And when I think about it, I think they all have extensions of awnings, which provides a lot of cover, whether it's shade or from the elements. But I think it's really an interesting thing. thing to discuss and put on new business.

Thank you very much. Just one comment, maybe the town manager can help me on this. Artificial turf, I see this in here. I know that it's in the commission agenda, right, for discussion, but I'm guessing if there's a still for discussion, they're going to make reference to the Florida Statute 125-572 on the FDEP ordinance? That's correct.

Excellent. Thank you. And also for the fencing standards, I went through what was discussed in that portion, right? the pros and cons, and I think basically there's a whole confusion in what is the front of the house, what is the side of the house in a corner lot, and that produces this situation. My personal opinion, and this is personal, I apologize for saying this, but I think if we change what is in the code, I think the code is clear for what's considered front and what's considered side, regardless what we want. If I have a corner house and I want the longest portion to be the front, tha

What is, I mean, I understood what you said, but what is it, is it not in this?

This comes from a whole discussion from a previous board members about the height and what's considered from there for how high could it be versus the side and what's considered the side and we entertain no setbacks, et cetera, et cetera in there.

I mean if you tore down a house on a corner lot and you want the front of it on the long part, you can make that the front of your house.

According to code, the shortest portion is the front.

So that's something to consider for the commissioners because it's part of that commission agenda, upcoming commission agenda.

Sir, are we saying that we don't want to dictate that it only be on the short side, that it could be either side if you were to build a new house or to change the front entrance?

What I'm saying is if we change what is in the code now, I mean, if we change the language, right, that can create different interpretations of what's considered front versus side. and right now the interpretation is just one.

Is that, I mean, cause there are houses on the, on the long side.

I do agree to some extent in there, right? Your design is your design, and the owner's design is the owner's design. What I'm saying here is if we change the code, right, if we change the code to determine in some situations this is the front, but other situations this is the front, that is going to create a series of problems.

Didn't we have that we, when we were last on the board, that fences were different on corner lots and they had to be treated?

We have had this conversation so many times. That's why I don't understand why it's again. Yeah. And my apologies, did you finish? Sorry, sorry, sorry. Because George is saying to talk to.

I'm just referring to you because we already had these conversations.

We have had this conversation so many times, so many times. And it was brought again and it's going to be in front of the commissioners again.

I think maybe our direction, I mean we'll hear what George has to say, but I think our direction has to be just like a waterfront lot is treated independently, that a corner lot has to be treated independently as well. Which is what we said in the last. Yes, that's what we said last.

George, I'm sorry. Oh, George. I opened the floor to the public.

Yeah Anybody else wants to add anything here Thank you very much Let's go to 8B, 8B, Plastic Fisherman Park Benches for the Beach.

Thank you very much. Sorry, do I need to open the floor to the public? Yes. Okay. Let's open the floor to the public. Any comments, any questions? No, okay. Thank you very much. We close the floor. Board members?

Is it hot when it gets hot? I mean, do these exist in other places?

Yes. Can we go somewhere to see that, or I mean?

I do love the fact that we are talking sustainability here, right, and recycling. Right. I do. I do. But I still would love to see, like, in use.

Yeah, do you have any pictures of it, where it might be placed right now, somewhere on a beach, on a sidewalk? Okay. But do you have any pictures of where it exists right now?

I'm just saying, because it's like, is it under a covered tree?

What I would like is to see one and see how they... they look how they work in the real environment, right? We're going to have them exposed to the sunlight, and we're going to have them... Where?

Look, it's a sustainability. It doesn't really matter if we like it or not. The plastic fisherman does a really, he's got a significant cause that is, you know, plastic items come to our homes and our beaches. It's not because surfsidians are throwing it in the water. It just comes to us. But I think it's a good use of a, repurposed item, but I certainly would have liked to have seen pictures of where they're placed already. That's all.

I just think it sounds like the commission wants this. It's a recycled item by one of our own community residents. So it's a very interesting and it's a repurposed item. So I mean.

I cannot. What do you think? I would give it the opportunity to. The Vice Chair can second. I can second? Okay, well, in that case, sorry. In that case, I will second the motion. I think we've.

In July, okay. And I'll second the motion.

It's fine. Yes. Will you bring maybe pictures, whether I'm here or not? I mean, if you show it out.

Is each one like a piece of art or is it just they have five styles and they can reproduce however many you want for each one?

We do have a motion right now, so we need to vote.

Let's be clear on what we want next time, right? We want to see variations, we want to sample.

Yeah, I think that the pictures of it out there, but does he just reproduce the same exact one? Like he could reproduce 10 of those?

So it's essentially a piece of art with a recycled material. I mean, for that reason alone, I am, okay.

Move to item eight, C, concrete benches at dune entrances.

That's the presentation. Thank you, I appreciate it.

It's very interesting concept for a walking path.

Thank you. So I'll open the comments to the public.

Thank you very much. Any more comments from the public? If not, I'm closing, and I leave it to the board.

Are they obligated to this already? Just say no.

Can that money go to the plastic fishermen?

They're terrible. There shouldn't be benches on the hard path. It's for walking, not sitting. And you want to put these plastic benches not on the path, but off the path. Am I understanding this correctly or am I wrong?

Just to clarify from a construction point of view, right, this would be a submittal. They are under contract, they are supposed to perform, so they're submitting this information for approval.

How many of these were ordered? How about that?

Okay, that's 28. I think, but again, my apologies. If this is submittal, that means that they haven't bought the product, correct? Meaning that we can negotiate, you just said it, we can negotiate not having them.

No, I'm gonna make a motion or a recommendation to not do this at all.

Is this what was specified or they're just bringing it?

Here's the question. That's the only item that needs input, the color. Not the form, not the shape, not the material.

Okay. So is the name of the company Wasa Tile that you're purchasing from?

Is it possible to look in and see if they have other products other than benches?

Okay, so if you're able to negotiate the contract and get a credit and to inquire about other potential products that they might have that would be usable for Surfside and placed at different locations other than the hard path, that would be the recommendation that I would like to see.

Yeah, but you're talking about using products that are harmful to the very plants that we just discussed along the hard path.

You get somebody and they have a little party and they stain it with wine. A pressure cleaner is not going to put wine out.

We do have three variations, right? The weatherstone, the premium ground polished, and the acid wash. Yeah. And Mr. Supell, you're recommending the acid wash? The acid wash, A30 store. Board members? Same color, do you wanna see other colors?

So maybe the motion would be to negotiate not installing, not bringing and installing this, right? But if that negotiation is unsuccessful, then we can proceed with the acid wash, 830 star, in other location. That's the motion that you're making?

So is that the motion that Mrs. Bommel is making? That is my motion. I'll second the motion.

Thank you. And now we go to number nine, new business. Yes.

So you're saying that the commission should be considering in-house for a structural engineer?

But there was another part of your conversation.

Yeah, the town planner should be in-house is a recommendation and a full-time structural in-house. And I think you also said something which led me to a question for driveway. If someone redoes their driveway, they don't have to come to planning and zoning.

Okay, so I think that that same person that you're speaking of was saying they had to wait when they wanted to change their driveway and they were told they had to come back to Planning and Zoning. When I don't, I believe that the Town Planner is responsible for and the building director for the driveway.

How many applications will receive an average each week?

Well, at some point, even the police department was doing some inspections, which I really don't understand. But, you know, this is an interesting town. Karen, do you have another question? Because Mr. Kosaras wants to talk to, oh, sorry.

Mrs. Pomela, you wanted to add something?

I think that the building official should be preparing himself for more active permitting to be happening. Just with my real estate and development background, I think it's... it's becoming much more active than it might have been over the past two years. I myself hear a lot of the complaints even before I got here. Um, you are saying you may have a new structural engineer employed full in house full time and that there is then process other

MEPs and all those. And what about inspectors as well? Are you looking for additional ones as well? And here he comes. He's going to answer that. But I just think you should anticipate a tremendous uptick in applications.

And what I hear it is that the solution remains on. adding man hours, right?

I have a question, because I've never put a permit in this town. I've done it in other portions, in Doral, in Fort Lauderdale, in the City of Miami, et cetera, et cetera, in Miami-Dade County, not here, not in Southside. Do we have permit by affidavit? Private providers. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. No, but not, I mean, that we can. Yeah, private providers. That we can go to them. Well, we, okay. For threshold, but not for the entire, for the whole?

But do we allow that? Do we allow private providers?

Okay, so that's a solution that we can... You know, tell the clients, tell the owners.

That's true, but I started using threshold engineers with the pandemic. It wasn't because of a prior building official. It was because what was going on with the pandemic and having the town shut down, I didn't have a choice.

And to that point, somebody, while I was, and I apologize, I was on vacation, so I didn't pay much attention to this comment, but somebody told me that for AI purposes, pertaining to the review process, there's the possibility of getting some monies from the state or something like that. So maybe there's something that we can find out, I don't know.

Thank you. Any more comments from the public?

I thought they were going to make an AI of George lives forever.

That's the town planner. I mean, I think what's really big is that they fill as many full-time positions as possible, MEPs and structurals and town planners. And I think, I mean, what I've heard through the grapevine in the state of Florida is the problem with getting inspectors and that it could eventually be falling onto the shoulders of engineers. And then that's, you can correct me if I'm wrong.

Thank you, everybody. Thank you very much. Anymore no business?

Can I just ask a question? Is there anything else that could show up on the agenda that's changed in the last two years that we don't know? Alex? like the signage from Harding Avenue was kind of a surprise to see that back. Is there anything else?

That might come up, that might come as a broad question. So if we don't have any more business, lots.

Anybody's making the motion to adjourn the meeting?