Village Council - Regular Meeting

At this time, I'd like to call the meeting to order. Vice Mayor Cantor, can you lead us?

If we could take a moment and bow our heads in a moment of silence. Everyone would rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.

Thank you Are there any additions deletions or deferrals to this agenda? Hearing as there are none, Madam Clerk.

I just had one question. One of the statements you make towards the end of the report is that the village doesn't have a PACE program.

at this this is a public meeting at this point in time we all open the floor up for public comments it's three minutes come to the podium state your name and address and address the council if you have an item specific you can if you do it now then when we address the item specific it's you can't do it twice But it's general, or if you have items specific and have to go somewhere, it's fine also.

Are there any other public comments at this time? Madam Clark, are there any comments?

There's a motion, a second. All in favor, signal by saying aye. Aye. Motion carries. Madam Clark.

we finally have enough people to fill those seats tonight but it's the attendance with these meetings the seven-member board is having a hard time but I do appreciate the comedic irony I had a motion on the table for mr. mayor okay This is a second reading of an ordinance. It's a public hearing or a public meeting. Are there any comments on this item?

Thank you. So moved. There's a motion to move it. Second. There's a motion to second. All those in favor, signal by saying aye. Aye. Motion carries. Thank you. Madam Clerk.

And the boards that they applied for, there's openings on those too?

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Madam Clerk.

Any more questions? Does that increase the millage rate from last year, or...?

Anybody? Discussion? We need a public comment on this. Public comment. Public comment.

move to approve 11a resolution of the miami shores village council determining the proposed knowledge rate second president do you have a comment did you have a comment um do you have to state and is the oh does the item say it doesn't have it so i think you have to say that you want to maintain uh maintain the seven point there you go time time and place first and second required by law.

And also we're approving the dates, right? The dates? The dates for the first budget hearing, which are September 8th and September 10th. That's the resolution?

We're good. There's a motion and a second. All those in favor signal by saying aye. Aye. Thank you.

does anybody in the public want to comment on this item

thank you there's a motion in a second all those in favor signal by saying aye aye motion carries

I Would say two things Jesse that might help one is I Last year, because the park was closed, Angie provided bleachers there for the people to sit on, to watch it on that vacant lot that was on the bay. They also invited some food trucks to come. But as you know, this is something I believe in. We have an egg drop, for instance. And the egg drop we have around Easter is so that the children here in the village can come to the athletic field and collect the eggs and whatnot. It's a tradition that the village has. I don't know that this is now, this will be the fourth year. It has been well atte

to risk coming off as a monster here as we talk about this. I'm definitely in big support of this cause. I think it's a great cause. I think it's a wonderful thing we do, not only for the community, but for the kids, etc. I just would like to bring attention to the fact that we are in month seven of this voting year. We have 11,900, a little less than 40% of the remaining allotted amount that we put aside. And so that would cut us almost a half left of what we have. No?

Oh, October 1st. So we have three months left. Okay. Like I said, I definitely... So like I said, I support it 100%. I just don't know if $5,000 is the right amount. But if everyone else feels that way, I would be inclined to support it. But like I said... I just want to make sure we're being fair to other organizations. I know that we feel that maybe we haven't been in the past. I'm trying to make sure we stay on the right foot with that. That's all. How about $2,500 then? I was thinking $3,000 personally. Great.

donation previously Where do the money Since we didn't have this last year correct. Where did it come from for the in-kind services last year?

To grow the event, we've got to get some money. How about going the other way? How about giving them $2,000? Because all they do there as far as the park, and we don't even know if the park's going to be gone. I rented that lot last year because we needed an alternative place to go to. We may have to do it again this year. Well, I hope not. You're right, Jerome. I hope we'll be done with it. But, you know, I'd rather give them the $2,000 because at the most we're going to set some chairs up. We're going to have... some police there, the food trucks, I don't think we have to pay. Do we to have

Do you have any idea how much money then you spent in sponsoring that event last year?

Sorry, what was the staff total just now?

That's what it sounds like. So now in light of knowing that we re-begin our financial clock at October 1st, knowing that we don't have meetings in August, I mean, I don't know.

Question A, could that be done for this year, or that would have to go into the budget for next year? The event's in December.

um knowing that we only have this is just my two cents knowing that we only have two meetings after this since we're off in august to bring charitable donations knowing that we allotted that money to try to do some things for the community uh from the dais up here i would be inclined to still support the 3000 but if my colleagues don't feel the same we can discuss it obviously

all right all right and I'll second that and then let's see Patrick you have any comments for us I

I mean, I think we should just give them the $3,000 and let them use it the way maybe $1,500 would be in kind, maybe $1,500 would be. I mean, let's not pin them down to have to use it a certain way. Let's give them the full amount and let them use it the way they want to use it, right?

I just want to make sure what I was proposing is the same as what he's recommending.

So can we repeat the motion so I understand it? Movement. This 11C, right?

Okay. Is there any public comment on this?

It's a great idea. It was a public comment, but It's kind of loose here, so.

Rules of order. No. There's no e-comment on this. No, sir. Thank you. Continue this.

We're just here to say yes or no with the money.

Based on the comment, too, I think we should allow them to do whatever they think makes them the most successful event, and obviously that's on us. It's okay with everybody. I'd like to propose... I'm so sorry, Vice Mayor.

11C, Resolution Village Council approving and authorizing the execution of our charitable donation agreement between the Village and Jackson Health Foundation in the amount of $3,000.

There's a motion. There's a motion and a second. All those in favor signal by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

Right, but this will be something the village will keep on addressing as we go along. It's just something that we haven't really kept pace with, like you said, for software has cost more, and back in the day it wasn't software.

Well, with that said, That's the fine that's after the courtesy notice on something like that So that's the running parking meter somebody has yes, we're cited for let's say a car in a front yard Then the bill for them would go from 1,500 a month approximately with 30 days in a month to 7,500 a month and That is this gonna put more work on the codes appeal. I mean I get that we're doing this and they haven't changed it a lot, but it's 5x from From what it was.

Well, that's fine to sit there and fight what you got wrong. But, again, this is more most of the time even when we have these codes or liens on these houses, they come before code and appeal it.

and the numbers are gonna be like historically anybody doing references now it's 5x what it was and it's kind of us I just see from the operational side of this of liens against houses I mean the numbers are gonna be not too long that you know some some I've had residents come up to me that the notification went to their rental house and not their address and they didn't know they had in the meters running because the renter didn't notify the landlord, and then it's some ridiculous bill that we're dealing with. Dealing with something that could have been dealt with in a month, but the bill is

I don't know. The meeting has a $250 cover charge is what you're saying?

So even if you're, let's say, and if you appeal and you're approved, you still pay the appeal fee, right?

Right, right, right. So they're paying it no matter whether it's approved or not. yes absolutely absolutely also should we maybe Eddie do you have some some comments you'd like to share just because you're the person day in and day out he deals with a lot of this if you have some yeah thank you sir I think the only thing I'd like to add is that variances

Also, I mean, but a person who – if we have a 10-foot setback and a person wants to do 9.6 feet, they still have to come for a variance, right? Technically, yes. Okay. So sometimes it could be a potentially extremely small ask just because they couldn't do 10 feet. They got 9.6 and they got to come ask for it, right?

Oh, I see. So we let things like that slide. We give them a few inches. Okay.

Yeah, six inches and less, but I'm saying that, so just to get clear, clarification, we're not being astringent on small wavering on those type of things.

I mean, through the chair, just look at all the other adjustments between current fee and amended fee. We're talking about 10%, 15%, some cases 20% maybe. These are all 300, these two items are 300% increases. I just, I really got a problem with that. And, huh? 3.3, 330% increases. I mean, the appeals one is only $100 more from $1,000. That's within the 10% if we want to leave that one as is, but I definitely cannot sign off on the variance ones going up this much.

Come back again soon. For the record, through the chair, I am down for an adjustment for an increase for the variances, but I was thinking if we're doing 1,000, 2,000 now, to be in line with how much the other items have gone up, fifteen hundred twenty five hundred okay I mean I don't love it but I'll meet I could meet in the middle on those but there's no way I'm getting on board with thirty three and sixty six no disrespect to anybody who put this together but I'm just saying for me personally because of all the labor involved in that variance

The other ones that were on the subject. Okay. Yes. If you just play the one for code. Yes. To go from zero to 250 for the meeting. The person does one day. They get the courtesy, and now they get the fine. Then they stop the meter. They call up, oh, my God, I got a $250 fine. And then they go fight or ask for relief on it. They got to pay 250 to get a meeting.

the meter stops at the time of compliance the code officer will check back after a few days so compliance stops the meter

You could be 30 days out, sometimes more.

This is on the record for how it works. On the courtesy notice for, let's say, the dirty brick.

let me get back to you about days for the code compliance matter and perhaps you can for that jump for this and one shot there's going to be a lot of emails there's other stuff that we're whether it's the ACES program or doing a major project somewhere the staff time for something like this And again, there's no public comment on this, so I get it.

But there's nobody in the public talking about this. They don't know. They don't know. And then all of a sudden, the first... You know, I get it. It is code compliance. And what we're trying to do is we're trying to do curate, not stick. And... 5X is a stick. And then plus the fact of meeting. I hear it. I mean, and also what's coming forward with what the state is doing for municipalities are going to have to find ways to, you know, keep the municipality the way that they want it with less revenue coming in. I get it. I just, this one, on the meeting thing, it's just, it's a double fine to me

But one of the big complaints that I get from residents is go back to the dirty roofs. And so the fellow gets a fine. And you looking up the number of days, I think, is crucially important. Because we need to be able to tell the public, once you get one of these first notices, if you don't correct this problem in X number of days, and that number of days needs to be consistent with everybody, not vary from person to person. But this particular individual got a notice and said, my roof is dirty. And he said, well, that's fine. But he says, come outside with me. Why didn't he get a notice? And w

This is just one for, and I'm glad we're doing it tonight, but this is also one where it's it works better for us to do this and the fees do have to and we explain it to everybody why the fees have to go up and how long that's why I asked the first question was last time we did it and half a decades a long time everything else has gone up with that said this is also an example for all the residents that we represent is sometimes the council or staff there's a way of doing it to people there's for them or with them and this one I would just like a little leeway to do it with them so that it's a

Well, maybe I can get more clarification on that too if there is a Violation on a commercial property they go before this board also. Yes, they do So

Commercial variance. Commercial variance increase.

we want to go that route um and then the daily amount also did anybody else have any other issues no through the chair i think 98 of these changes are awesome and welcome them 100 but the two variance ones and i also got to say i think going hearing cost zero to 250 we can discuss on but I think daily code enforcement fine from 50 to 200 is a little steep as well I've seen some of these bills as they've been racked out there some of them are in the 60,000 was a million dollars 60 grand so I made though

come into compliance that you're breaking a law in the in the village of Miami Shores yes there was no cap on the land at the Boulevard and 105th Street that that fine was over right I had a million dollars he paid it to keep ownership of the land

We also need just to read into the public record. I don't think the fee count was read in.

every year my wife says we're not charging enough so no the fees

Let's get some some time from her first get the rest of the information

I think that we shouldn't let this to the chair.

So maybe we can do it all. Bundled together. Correct. That sounds good. Well, since we're talking about 10, can we get library on board to change the fees also? They're collecting a lot of revenue.

Since we're doing fees. Parks did it. I mean, library.

Before we just kick it down the road, can we give direction on the variance issue, though? I mean, how do we feel about a more accurate adjustment on those two items?

since we're getting more information on code well I see I guess I'm probably stepping toes on staff again adding more work for you but um I don't know if included in the backup was other municipal similar sized

They did. They said 1,000. For all of them except for Sunny, no, Surfside was 5,000. 5,000. But every other one was lower than 2,000.

I know, but I'm just saying it's a lot of money.

We have good rules. We do, but like I said – If somebody wants to change one of our really good rules, they're going to pay.

But this is what I'm saying, and this is why the reason I – sorry to belabor this, but through the chair, this is why I brought it up. Because as Eddie says, obviously we take it very seriously, and if it's within a couple, we work with you. But let's say you do need eight inches. That's not a huge ask at the end of the day. I mean if you want three feet, okay, maybe – But, man, if you're coming for a little tiny thing because your lot is shaped in a certain way and that setback looks weird or whatever or you can't really access your property as well because of, like, eight inches – and you're

It's also a business decision when you're a homeowner because your home is your largest asset at the end of the day. I mean, not everybody, but a lot of us, our home is our number one asset. So we have to make business decisions based on the ownership of our home and what we're What works if we got to sell it down the line?

What if you're a little small shop that you can fit four people? I mean, $6,600 out of their monthly, I just feel like it's very cheap.

I have a bigger problem with the time. We had a guy with a car up on cement blocks on – on Miami Avenue, he got a notice that that was illegal and that he needed to get the car moved. Now, does he have two days to do that or 12 days to do it or two months to do it? The problem is he was never told that. Well, it turned out that they gave him like three days. and came back, and of course the neighbors had complained about it, etc. That fine started that day. He went out of town. He's a guy that drives a tractor-trailer to California and back again, and comes back again before he ever really rea

No, he's going to pay $500. He's already gotten the citation. He's going to pay $250 for day one, assuming that there was a board meeting the next day, and they may not meet for a month. Now he's going to pay the $250 every day until the meeting, plus pay the $250 for the meeting.

I just want to know that we're doing this.

Can we get the comparatives on the commercial variants for others as well?

Motion to defer. Motion to defer. Motion to defer. Second. All those in favor of deferring it, signal by saying aye. Aye. Madam Clerk, next item.

Thank you. Is there, anyone have a discussion, public comment first? Okay, yeah, sorry. Is there any public comment on this item? Okay.

Thank you. To the Chair, a couple of questions you could answer. If my memory serves me correctly, the recommendation was made by Mr. McCoy, who stated that there were basically three levels of employees in the village, and that it was his opinion that an employee at a given level was more likely to come to an individual in the same situation to discuss concerns that they might have relative to the pension and et cetera instead of going straight to Esmond or going straight to Someone and etc. And so was his recommendation That there be three members of the board one of which would represent ea

I mean, my take on this is, in the discussion before, the plans were originally together, police in general. And then it was bifurcated. And police are five. And then this one is seven. That's 12 people assigned to pension in this village. We have five council members. I mean, I understand what they're doing. I understand what the employers are doing. But I attended it for the two-year time that I did it. I saw a lack of we had quorum, but I also saw a lack of attendance from those said residents. I just think the job is super important, but five members is enough to make the decisions. And th

And the discussion tomorrow is if the four are going to do an oral presentation, is that what they're discussing tomorrow? And the RFP is closed then?

Were there any other RFPs requested by the pension board?

But the board did not ask for an attorney and did not ask for the administrator for the financial?

For the time being, the only directive was to do the RFP for the administrator. Correct. Okay.

No, we're just – I just wanted confirmation for who's making a decision. It's also just like we did with the other board. It's which board is making – even if we discuss this and it's five, then most of those board members would be the same. We just would have to figure out who's staying and just the composition of it.

the exact language but I think we should try to put in there to the chair I can't understand this you know we had doctors charter school come in and they came in and said this is what we would like for a board we had parks and recreation come in they are the ones that go to the board meetings every meeting they are the ones that have to carry on the business they said this is what we would like to have for a board and we granted that but now for some reason when we have pension we don't seem to care what the pension board wants we're going to tell them what they have to have I don't understand

maybe you want to wait till next April I mean and okay go seven the next April that that board can be these ordinances could be changed at anything and that this council and the efficiencies that we've heard from staff is that it's very hard to recruit people you have a board there and I attended it for two years and if you want to do the attendance for those residents while I was there it was horrible It wasn't. I had four meetings, and I think maybe I had one meeting where those three residents showed up.

No, no, we're not adding, Jesse. There's seven now. We're just keeping seven. You're adding, though. You took away the council member and the manager. Now you're putting four residents to pull off the street to show up.

If you go three and two, though, the way that it's structured right now would be three and two, and you discuss the other way around. But the thing is, is what we said before, I mean, I would hope that a resident who does work for the village would want to volunteer for this board since it's only four meetings. So that one could be, it would be, if it, hear me out.

No, I'm saying how many people are residents and employees? It's probably like two people. Lisa and Jorge. There's four.

No, I can get it right on my hand. There's four or a handful. There are five. I mean, building department, planning and zoning, public works. This is off the top of my head. Code enforcement, and I don't know everybody over at public works. So, I mean, there's more than... Yeah. And also the deputy village manager.

So I think it's a hard thing to run. And the deputy village manager is another one. So, I mean, we're already to a half a dozen employees out of the 100 and whatever that are residents.

I did not say that. I was just saying for the composition of it, if you ask for three employees and the employees elect the three, And that discussion amongst them that are in pension, that's three people. Two residents who are experts in this. What I'm saying is that one for the three that is an employee could also be a resident. That's it. There's no requirement. It's just I would hope that somebody that worked here and then is in the pension fund would be that person that walks both sides of it, both sides of the street. I'm sorry.

But seven people is. I would just say that the board wanted. three employees one for each level of government and if you have three of the if you have three employees you're going to have two residents period so number one you're going to take somebody off of there who is very qualified to be there which is going to be a shame to lose them and second of all I don't understand who is supposed to be representing the taxpayers in this if it's not going to be the residents that are on there. If I could speak to that real quick. They are in a minority.

They're still representing. So you're just saying any board that has five people, two on one side and another, you can't have a discussion and come to consensus? Seriously? And the people's representatives, which is this council, are always going to have a final say.

Well, it hasn't worked very well with the police board, I will say that. And I say that from personal conversation. You have two residents and three policemen, and it has not been a – in fact, I think one of them is quitting, aren't they?

in the morning so let's backtrack saying it sound it sounds like we all wanted to get a five except for George you think it needs to stay at seven right is that what I'm hearing it was a unanimous I mean you know what again it wasn't my idea that came from a village employee named McCoy and that was his and then that was also Bob Williamson's opinion Tom Longman this idea that we didn't have a quorum we've had everybody at every meeting except Esmond missed one I'm sure for good reason but aside from that since I have been going you know every chairs been pulled and you know it's an active boa

Probably five of them were there, though. You're saying the manager wasn't there. I think only five of them were there.

According to the minutes. One meeting, the manager was not there. I think I included this vote for this. So you're telling me that you're saying that the manager voted for this unanimous for this.

I said the committee voted unanimous for it.

They did, but there was only five of them there.

Again, his attendance at mine was not very good.

Okay. None of the others though. Yeah, but it was unanimous. There was three people there. It was unanimous. That's fine.

One thing I keep hearing, and obviously we know, is how well-funded our pension is. And so my only... I definitely sympathize with the inability to get residents to come to the committees. We're dealing with it all the time right now. But it's like, do we really want to... change something that's working really seems not only really well, better than it's working pretty much almost anywhere else, it sounds like. I mean, to be funded so high and to...

Of course. But I'm just saying, at the end of the day, I mean, it seems like it's working. It's been working. Nine point something percent is much higher. It sounds like than an alternative representation for those benefits So, you know I Mean I think we all can agree that the manager doesn't want to be on it. We should remove him.

I think we all feel that way the replacement then those are two people that are in the public light and If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? Right. And you're sitting there then.

But that's my point. It's difficult for that reason. It's doing well, but yet changes need to be made. Right. It's like either way, it's going to alter. And that's what I'm saying. That's my takeaway is how do we know what the right decision is here? We don't. We're guessing. It's a guess.

seems that way discussion done here we're gonna make a motion let me say one more I'm sorry if we go with five that means we would have to we would be removing a resident from current yeah because no because one is the manager one is a council member so technically yes council members are residents so yes it is a resident coming off but oh okay but then it would be but it would be three and two weighted towards resident no three to three employees okay

No. Right now, there's three and a council member, which is four residents. Right now, there are two. There's three employees. Well, I mean, the manager's an employee and then two other employees. Four residents because the council member is a resident.

The manager's an employee. employees that's three Tom Longwood mr. Williamson mrs. sorry for or sit doors and then the council member mr. Burch for for residents I understand we take the council member we take the manager away we're left with three residents and two employees correct but but a good point through the chair good points being made that the residents also have a layer of representation here

To the chair if you recall you had directed the village clerk's office to withhold recruiting because of this purpose and

Sounds like what I'm hearing is we're going to go from 7 to 5. We're going to, since all three of these people are up for their seats anyway, so we'll just appoint two of whoever back, and now we'll have three residents. I mean, two residents, sorry, three employees, one of which we will hopefully be a resident employee. But if not, it doesn't matter.

There's three tiers of what they were saying. Mr. McCoy is saying there's three tiers of. But also in the police pension, there's also multiple tiers of police pension, too, and they're voted by union on who goes on the board. So I hear the discussion back and forth for that. Again, to the clerk's point, I would hope that the representation for all the employees that volunteer for this are and notify all their other employees what they're doing and better participation on the employee side of this in their active pensions.

want to do a hybrid of that it would be the general employees elect to and the council likes the two residents and the third and the third employee and that's the residents input kind of like that was the board it's not bad why are we picking the third why are we picking the last seat though just say let's go to the resident you know just for the composition for resident well who's who makes up the board

Through the chair, I thought we agreed that the residents have an extra layer of representation up here with their council, so why do we need to give them a third seat? We still would like to have an employee.

It would just be the people that apply, just like they're going to have to apply for the seats for the employees, two would be voted on by the masses, by the whole employee pool, and then Other people would be in there applying and then come before us and we'll put them on the board.

Okay, but why can't we just mirror the police situation as two residents we select, two employees that are selected by the employees, and then the last member is selected by those four people?

But what's the pool of the fifth person? The other one for the police because it doesn't have to be a police and it doesn't have to be a resident.

The fifth one, right? It's at large. So why don't we just do an at large for the fifth seat picked by the four people, the two that the employees pick, the two that we pick, let them decide on their fifth member together. If they want someone super qualified who's neither of those or whatever, they get to decide. And then the residents, of course, have that. extra layer of protection since they only make recommendations and we have to vote at the end of the day on any changes that happen that we're technically like the third resident or anyway so it's okay does anyone else have any discussion

You have a second from me. Do you want to call a vote? It's not a vote. I think we could just do a consensus.

Yeah, the direction would be have the attorney for the pension draft an ordinance with that language that the vice mayor just said.

Okay. So since there's two readings, we'll have time to address any other issues that arise.

Well, again, I think that one of the reasons we have trouble getting people on our committees is because we ignore them. I mean, we have a pension board with some excellent people on it that are knowledgeable in pensions. If we're not interested in their opinion and we're going to decide whatever we are and really don't even want to know what they think, then that's fine. If that's how you all feel, we could do that. We do have a pension board. They are experts, at least three of them in that particular field, and at least we could find out what they think of these proposed changes before we b

I'm in for that as well. I don't think they've heard this discussion and the reasons why we're talking about doing it. I mean, it would have been better if there was a joint meeting and they actually showed up. I mean, it's like it's two different silos. They have to be in their own world. This was noticed. This is on the agenda, discussion of possible action. You're the only member here.

No, no, no. But we were talking about two different things. I'm not talking anymore about this motion and the composition of the board. What I'm talking about is what Mrs. Keeley is saying. She's proposing several additional things, right? Right.

anymore that stuff we already said yeah we've already were on board with that from the process so I want to make that clear also is there any more discussion thank you mr. Turner thank you thank you thank you madam clerk I am 12b discussion impossible action on our temporary political sign ordinance and appropriate changes I'm sponsored by councilmember George Birch

I sure want to make 10 o'clock. We'll make this very quick. I was driving down the boulevard about a week ago and there were seven or eight political signs between the sidewalk and the road for a political candidate. And according to our ordinance, that's not legal. You have a copy of the ordinance here. Shanae said that we are, I'm not interested in rewriting the ordinance. I just don't want Miami Shores to look like North Miami or some of the other cities where every time you go by a lot, there's a... 13 or 15 political signs tacked on to it and especially We know we call ourselves the villa

All right. This is a this past week. I've had three different people come to the front door and they come to the front door and they Hi, I'm here. Do you need your gutters cleaned or do you need? I'm a Andy, man, anything you want fixed or I'm a painter, would you like your roof painted or whatever? And then another guy came and said, I'm with CARE. And I said, what is CARE? And he said, well, we're an organization and we do this and we do that. and so I asked him I said do you have a peddler's permit and a peddler's permit requires an individual it only cost $10 to come to City Hall and give

The thing is, I mean, of course I love the idea of registration for more accountability, but the people who are here to do wrong are definitely not registering, first of all. And the problem is, how are you going to enforce this? I mean, I had an example just like yours the other day. A random guy comes in. He came into my backyard, and I saw him, and he came and knocked on the door. He told me, you know, I do this type of work, whatever. Maybe you're a contractor. I said, I'm good. I have a team, blah, blah, blah. He was relentless. Well, just take my number down, and if they need anybody, bl

Well, that's what I'm saying. People who are there to do wrong, though, are not going to register. Only people who are here to do the right thing are going to register. Therefore, I feel the problem we're trying to address is people doing the wrong thing.

Well, I think the point, okay. No, but for my point, and Mr. Birch might have a point, I think that youth doesn't know what peddler means, so maybe our ordinance is named wrong. I mean, this was probably written when people were selling carpet, they were selling vacuums. There was the fuller brush salesman and selling vacuums door to door. So maybe, I mean, it is peddlers and solicitors, that might be outdated, but I know that hear what you're saying and again enforcement it's it's it's it's we have a law on the books and as we could look through it and just see what's the modern version of th

so I think it's twofold I do think that you all are speaking on the correct issues here which is one the law itself what does it say secondly how are we gonna actually enforce this so these peddler solicitation ordinances are

Not to say that they should not know you always have constructive notice of these things, but that's something we could put in the magazine Sure, but I mean the solicitor themselves most people might not just assume that I need to go and get a permit But it's the residents that need to know it because if we get that information to the residents Then they're gonna get in the habit of that as more of these people come to the door. Hi. Yes. Thanks for coming. Do you have a permit? If you don't have a permit, then come back after you get one.

against case law at this point because like I said this is a another First Amendment protected area of the law but I really think we need to in if our if our residents unfortunate they don't know this exists even or I'll say this I didn't know it existed And if they knew that, it could be a common thing. Sure. But first of all, let me see your peddler's permit or your, you know. Okay. No, you're right. I agree with you. But I mean, let me see your permit.

Let's put it in the newsletter so that we can inform residents they have the ability to say, hey, come back when you have.

I think I'm pretty clear thank you so much okay so this is we got three minutes left real quick this is still back to the peacocks we've already discussed it a couple of times I would like to see us get some signs put up in the main entrances into the village that say Miami Shores is a bird sanctuary Now, fortunately, as you read the ordinance, there's something about if they're a nuisance or I forget the exact language, whatever, and maybe we can do something about the peacocks legally and still be a bird sanctuary, which would be the real goal. How do you all feel about that?

I'm definitely down to put some signage that denotes us as a bird sanctuary. As we know, the birds can't read the signs, so it's really just to inform people that they're in a bird sanctuary. I'm not really sure what the takeaway, and we discussed this a little bit at the sustainability I'm not sure what the takeaway is, other than informing people we are a bird sanctuary. My behavior, when I read that sign, I'm not going to be like, oh, I should drive extra carefully now because I'm in a bird sanctuary. I mean, what is the takeaway? And that's what I'm trying to understand.

Oh, bird feeders, bird waters. You know, maybe a group that, a society. We had robins down here this winter. You know, we've always got mockingbirds.

But the robins are not going to not come just because we don't have birds sanctuary sites.

It's like everything else, right? It builds the shores up. It says this is a good place to live and this is a good reason that it's a good place to live. Mr. Birch.

there was signs Neil I mean weren't there signs and all over this village one right here to bird sanctuary or something looking at one right now okay so it was done confusion corner now you know in my discussion with staff I was asking about this and then I recalled that there

Can I clarify? What does it mean? How does it affect your choices day to day? I'm down for the signs. If your point is to up our bravado about birds, I'm in. If it just means that, hey, you got to be a little more careful. You're in a bird sanctuary. I don't know. It sounds like.

designation or D designation or something this is effectively well I guess it would only hurt you if you decided to have the signs but you no longer want this policy so I think first establish if you want to keep this as is and if you do

If we believe in that, we've got to get rid of the iguanas.

Which, I mean, but I think priority for –

I mean, my opinion of it, because of Sunshine, I would prefer that all five of us were together getting the information at the same time to even then discuss if it's legal. I mean, I would think that this type of thing is allowed. We're allowed to have, like, an administrative meeting on this, right? Which...

That's all right wherever I mean somewhere in the village Sure, yeah as long as it's publicly noticed however you want to make it a workshop I believe I think for where we're headed as a council and that it is publicly noticed that other I you know, other people moving forward so they understand the borrowing process or us taking out these loans and how it's going to work. I think all of us need to... Okay. I don't, just like the other stuff, it just means that it's noticed there's going to be minutes from it. I'm not saying that I need an audience.

It is because of sunshine, I just don't want any... that I prefer this type of discussion like we had tonight with these three items that all five of us are here. And I think that's the same thing with this information, especially coming to finance. We just have to, and what's coming down the pipe for us budget-wise and then in the future, that this will be the first for all of us to get this type of advice at all.

It'll be cheaper to do it all in one instead of doing five individual meetings. I don't know about that. Because it's not included.

I have a tremendous amount of knowledge in municipal bonds. That's what I live on.

I'm talking about... Well, there's some of that. I mean, just for simple overlay, even for the residents, the difference between the revenue on a desk and then the geo bond, which is going to be the parks probably. Okay. So it does... Even in that one, it's kind of I've been in meetings where cart before the horse, I'd rather both of them be addressed. The main focus is actually the first one would be the golf course. And if the election, in the election in April, it's immediate following it. I mean, they're both pretty close. If the residents do what the residents do, and then us as a council

What? I think we should definitely have them in the same meeting. I think the attorney is just advising a municipality on the bond.

All right. I think it's necessary from the feedback I've got from my constituents of what does that, especially what the state's doing for tax relief, and then this would be, obviously if we do a GEO, it's going to be run through property. So it's just getting that education on that and what we're looking at. The sooner the better, I think.

From what the residents are asking me for passing and what we did and we approved the master plan is that the council keeps moving forward with that. Again, for us in the special election for that one, I'll just give you, since we're talking about timelines, On the golf course side of it, the property itself is way overdue for the golf course portion of it. In my research for it, the building is in dire need also. But it's also, when you saw the NGF thing, the total bill was $31 million. The numbers so far coming back from Golf Enterprise Fund are what Kemper bid on and what they're coming bac

basic overview and education yes that's what we need first yes I need that but it's gonna be but it's also good for that one that the real world thing is exactly what I'm talking about right now and and realistically on numbers and timelines and and the the golf course taking it on and you've in budget discussion tomorrow night or whatever we're doing that the difference between the structure of that and you see that are we're gonna have to explain to the residents why the budget looks so big the The dollar amount we're basing that off of is almost $8 million and then going up. But it's also a

great i am i'm just kind of lost on the conversation that we're at we're talking about 15 different things right now basically the only ask is do we do we want the education that's all about the two types of bonds we do want that education yes and we do want them in the same meeting because they're the same expert correct so let's set that up where we all come and we'd sit and learn and then once we know about all the specifics about the bonds we can really be really educated on what comes after, because if we don't know anything about how it works, how can we make decisions on 8 million, 10 m

I understand, but I mean, it's also, we have sunshine and all the information I just gave you, did you know that that was a range? You should be wrapping your mind about what we have to spend in the village to get what we want. And we're going to have to borrow. That's my point to bringing this up. It's just stuff to think about now. I mean, it could be an emergency one also, Jesse. That's my point to this. I get what you're saying. You want to get educated on this.

No, I'm just trying to put, we are able to speak here, right, in Sunshine. And I'm telling you the information that I have. was given direction to get a bond attorney so we could start talking about it. The reason we're doing that is these two projects. Of course. They're two different things. If you don't, any of this stuff, if you just want to wait for them to tell you what the two different things are, I'm telling you what's actually happening in Miami Shores. If you don't want to hear it, that's fine.

Then we'll go get educated on it. I get it.

I'm not knocking it, but it's also just stuff to think about. We're in it.

I like those materials as well. Thank you. Thank you, Shannon. Perfect, perfect. All right. Anything else?

We're over time. That's fine Motion to adjourn second all in favor