Village Council - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon, everybody. It's our regular meeting of July 14th, 2026. It's 4 p.m., our starting time. I'm going to call the meeting to order, and we'll have the clerk call roll the members, please.

Does anybody want to make that motion? I'll make it. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. We have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. All right, Mr. Meyer, welcome. Where are you today?

Salzburg. I love it. That's a shame. We're in Pinecrest. But we'll do the Pledge of Allegiance anyway. Thank you. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Let's move to the first item of business. That's our consent agenda. Does anybody want to pull anything off our consent agenda? All right, tab five. Anybody else? I have a question about the minutes. Okay, minutes. Do you want to pull the minutes?

Can we pull the minutes or we just make a correction?

Pull the minutes and we'll talk about them. Okay. Okay, and anybody else want to pull anything? Okay, does anybody on the public want to speak on any of the un-polled items from the consent agenda? Now would be the time. Seeing none, we will move past that. Do we have a motion on the consent agenda of the non-polled things? I'll move. We have a motion and a second. All in favor, aye. Aye. All right, great. Anybody opposed? All right, that passes. All right, tab one. Ken, you have a minute issue?

Yeah, over in, I know you guys are gonna love talking about this, but page two of six, when it talks about the custom bench that we approved, and the wording got changed to a design feature. Let's be fair, it's a custom bench, and I don't know why it got stricken as that got stricken and put it as a design feature.

I know that when we moved on the motion, because I think it was my amendment to the motion, it was done as a, that's what we voted on.

That's what I read, as a design feature, more than a bench.

So there you have it. OK. OK. Does anybody want to speak on the design feature, or the bench, the mega sidewalk, or whatever we're calling it? Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing on that item. We'll go to a motion. Oh, yeah. Let's adopt the minutes. Ken, you want to make a motion? Motion to approve. OK. Anybody want to second, Kerry? I'll second. All right. All in favor of adopting the minutes, say aye. Aye. Passes unanimously. OK. Tab 5.

I just want to close. I spoke to the manager. There appears to be a, speaking of what we're calling things here, this is, it references Howard Drive, but this is not actually about the Howard Drive bridge. This is about Chattanooga Field. It's 124th.

All right. Anybody want to speak on that? Seeing none, we'll open and close the public hearing. OK, so motion?

All right, motion. Second. McDonald and Fairman.

And the motion as amended? Yes. Yes, to 124th Street.

All right, all in favor? Aye. Okay, motion passes. All right, agenda and order of business. Does anybody mind if we move tab 14 up to right after the special presentations? Peter England from the EDC is here, and I promised him we would do a presentation on that. Anybody mind? All right, that being done. Okay, good. Uh, special presentations, Palmetto. Middle council member Meyer.

So, my name is on this item, but it came as a request from a board member, Louisa Santos to give the Palmetto middle or time during this today's council meeting. So, with that, I'll just let the middle school association take the word from here on.

Okay, good. We'll move on to tab 14 next. But first, let me just say that I wanted to congratulate Ms. Shannon Del Prado as our mayor elect. She'll be taking over in November. Congratulations. Couldn't be more proud of you. And so I just wanted to say hello to her. She's in the room tonight watching again. Thank you. Okay, let's go to tab 14 real quick before the special presentations. Tab 14, that is, Ms. Clark, will you go ahead and...

All right. So we work with the Economic Development Council of South Miami-Dade, and they did a competitive assessment for South Dade. And Peter England from the EDC is here. Peter, would you like to do a brief presentation so the council can figure out what you did and see if we want to support?

Any questions on the resolution? Does anybody want to speak in the public on this tab 14 resolution?

Do we have a motion? I'll move. Do we have a second? Second. Motion to second. All in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? Aye. All right. Motion passes. Thank you, sir. All right. No presentation just yet. Let's go to tab two.

Who wants that? I'll take it, Mr. Mayor.

This is second reading, right? I defer to everybody else on the campus. Any questions from council?

Just for clarification, so the papers that were handed to us, those.

But were those the same things that were handed to us last, were those, did we see those changes prior, last month? Okay, so there's no. No changes to the changes. I remember it differently, I just, of course. It was two months ago. Which is why I'm asking if we discussed it. But no, so there's no additional changes?

But we were told about them. In other words, were there any additional removals? That's a weird way to word it, but any additional removals? I guess I'd like to know what was removed since last time, just so we're aware. If they're not legal under Florida law, There's nothing we can do about it, but it would be good if we could know that.

We ready for our presentation? The special presentation for the PTAs?

We'll get them a police escort. We're going to send down the police chief to take special care of the dangerous PTA people coming up here to cause trouble. All right, then. So what do you think we want to do next? There's pink lemonade over there. How about tab six? How about tab seven? We can't do that. How about tab eight? Who wants to do tab eight? Youth Governance Day. Manager's not here. This is all hers. Should we just go write the plan of the month? Yeah, let's do the plan of the month, please. It's my favorite part of the meeting.

Today you have grass, right? Today we're talking about grass in front of us. And there'll be a flyer if anybody wants to get this. There's a couple grasses there that look really nice in the landscape. We have right in front of the mayor's dwarf acahatchee grass, and either side of that is pink muley grass, which is the very brilliantly pink seed pods that come out. And then on the side of that is the cord grass, which does well in damp areas, pond, by waterways and ponds and things like that. Plus at the bottom of this, they'll talk about a number of other grasses, and there's one at the bott

And whatever you're going to take home, we'll go to the Parks Department, and they'll find a good place to plant it.

That's all you got. That's all I got. I just have a question. Please. So this grass of the month stuff, you've been doing this for a while? Plant of the month stuff. Plant of the month stuff. This month it's grass. Oh, OK.

Very cool. Grass is a plant out here. Just in case. OK. All right. Okey-dokey. So what about tab 13? Anybody want to do 13? Ms. Clark?

Let's do 15. TAP 15? Yeah, let's do TAP 15.

Okay, good. So we're pretty much out of time. You want to do YAC? Yeah, let's do the YAC. Youth governance, no. Go, Mr. Fairman. Where is that? I gotta find it myself. Okay, confirmation of the chapter 12. Is that it?

All right, does anybody disapprove of any of these children on this list?

One of them's room is a complete mess and hasn't cleaned her room in weeks. OK, I would ground her. I don't want to disapprove of the child.

Oh, just the mess of the room. Just the mess of the room. You want to name names?

I'd like to make one comment on the act. All right. I'm very excited that we're going to have 20 young people from the village participate in this. I'm even more impressed by what happened behind the scenes. This past year, a lot of the Yak students wanted to clarify the rules about membership and getting into Yak. They wanted it not to be an automatic, just because you were in one year that you automatically got in the next year. They wanted interviews done. And that's a good thing, because in the past, we've had some issues with stuff not being turned in, and maybe people getting on YAC that

OK, great. Thank you. You're doing a wonderful job with that. So you should be commended. Excellent work. Glad to have you doing it. All right, so that's the yak. Ms. Manager, you're back? Yes, I'm back, Mr. Mayor. Where did we leave off? Which one are we? Oh, tab six. Do we have to vote on this? Do we need to vote on that, or are we just okay with a... Consensus. Anybody? Right, so we have consensus. OK, go back to six.

Anything in the handout or in the? Both. OK.

I mean, it doesn't need to be for my sake. If anybody else wants to, sure, but I don't wanna delay the meeting.

A couple. Number one, on page 49 of 130, paragraph G, it talks about encroachment of a hedge onto the sidewalk. And maybe Esther can speak to this. Do we also want to say or the right-of-way line? 49 and 130. What paragraph? G at the bottom. Okay.

Is that your final answer? That's my final answer. Okay, that's your final answer. Anything else?

I do have a question about the bike parking. Let me get to that. I don't know this, the bike parking. Oh, I'm sorry, page 77 and 78. I'll get to the easy one on page 78. And this hearkens me back to when the county made provisions for mandatory bike racks on commercial property. Item E, signage. I just don't see any point in telling people they need to put up signs to show that the bike rack's a bike rack.

I know it's a little thing, but it's just one more sign up that somebody's got to pay for, that somebody's got to maintain. And I don't see a need for it. Also, I think for right now, the number of bike racks being requested is a little bit on the high side. I would prefer to have something like five to 50 spaces require two bike racks, 50 to 100 require four, 100 to 200 require six, 200 to 500.

Page 77. I'm thinking about Sunnyland and some of these shopping centers that we have that have several different owners and and they're gonna be putting up quite a few bike racks. And I don't know, I mean, I'd like to start a little smaller scale, see that they're getting used, and then advance it from there. Plus, there is another requirement that it has to be near the entrance to the building, and that can get a little tricky about who's gonna make that determination on where they should be located. and that would be in item two, or under C, item two, and item one as well. Bicycle parking s

If you're looking at Sunnyland South, as you just stated, we have a number of different owners of that parcel, and there are entrances all the way along, starting with Sergio's at one end and Milam's at the other.

I think this was this pulled from the county.

I put error on the side of caution for more bicycle parking than less. So I'm good with the way it is. Anybody else?

I agree. I think there's been a lack of bicycle parking. We build shared use paths. We try to encourage people to ride bicycles to the shopping area. And if you do and you don't have a place to park and lock your bike, you're not going to do it. Right.

I actually think the concern is that Vice Mayor Laidout is well founded. I mean, if there's not much of a will to change it, I'm fine with it. But I think it's a fair concern. I would be happy to see how this plays out maybe at a smaller number, but I don't feel overwhelmingly strongly if that's not clear.

Sorry, but I had a bad connection. So, is this on the topic of the bike racks or on another topic?

There is a proposal to limit the number of bicycle parking spaces out there. So, if your connections bad, I bet I can guess. Yeah, we're I could guess for you. You probably want to keep it the same and not lower it.

Well, I don't see a drawback to this, quite frankly. I mean, the cities that have done this in other parts of America have benefited from an increased level of pedestrian and bike traffic of local residents attending their local commercial districts. And as one of those residents that likes to visit our US-1 establishments, I usually and often struggle to find places to park my bike safely. And at times I have to park it in places where it's not visible and I worry about it's, you know, that it might be taken away, et cetera. So, I think in the end, everyone's going to benefit from this. I fra

All right, so we'll keep it the same, it seems like. I mean, it's only 16 bicycle spots per 1,000 parking spaces, so it's not many. It ain't killing anyway. Anything else, Mr. Fairman?

That's E. All bicycle parking spaces shall be posted with a permanent and properly maintained above ground sign.

Tell somebody that's a bike rack. I don't think so either. Okay.

Good. You can ask council member Meyer. Is it, he can't find a place to park his bike because he doesn't see the sign or the parking or the bike racks, the physical, there are no bike racks.

Once you have a rack, you probably don't need a sign.

And this is kind of, he made my point, which is a little bit, there are problems. There are no bike racks or, very few in the village. So to tell, say, Sunnyland that they're going to put a string of, I don't know, 20-some, 30-some along their storefront sidewalks is a lot. A lot right now where they don't have any. Should we start off with these numbers or should we start a little bit smaller and give our commercial property places to properly place them, check out their usage, and if Council Member Meyer goes back and he can't find a spot because all the bike racks are being used, then we go

I disagree, Vice Mayor. I think if we're going to do it, this isn't... Like 16 for 500 to 1,000 parking spaces. Well, we don't even have that. But the thing is, we don't have them now. It's 16 what? Bicycle. Bicycles, yeah.

16 bicycles, not bike racks. It's like one bicycle rack. One bicycle. Because there's 16 slots in a bicycle rack problem. This isn't like concrete. No, that's settled. We're settled on that one. Okay, anything else?

I believe the people of Pinecrest can distinguish a bike rack from not a bike rack.

F can be whatever you want. Okay. Anything else?

just have a question clarification question if you don't mind um i believe we had a lengthy conversation this is related to the um building um that will be uh well the us uh the um hosp you know building yeah i believe that where the former macy's furniture macy's store used to be that's going to go up and we had a lengthy conversation about um You know, ensuring that we have limited open parking spaces visible from us 1 and rather. That we would be asking them to have, um, underground parking enough so that we can repurpose some of the. Ground level parking and replace asphalt for trees, et c

Okay, any other questions from the council?

One more on page 90 of 130. Just curious, Chad probably has an answer for this, but the artificial turf, not counting as green space, artificial turf, what's stricken is artificial turf shall not be counted or considered as required natural green space. Thank goodness, but was that stricken just because it was redundant?

Anything else? OK. Does anybody want to speak on this from the public? Any of the applicants? You guys good with this?

I know, but we have to suffer through it.

Appreciate that. We're nothing if not courageous when it comes to parking a bicycle.

Got it. Anybody else from the public want to speak on this? All right, Ms. Clerk, there's hopefully nobody online that wants to talk about this.

All right, so we'll close the public hearing. Any further debate? Not? Do we have a motion?

What about that, the combining 12 and 13, as was suggested on the instructional studio, such as dance?

Oh, do we want to do that? I see no reason why not to.

All right, which part of this makes sense? Let me know. Can we just keep it the same?

But like a Pilates class, a yoga class would have the same sort of thing, right? People all showing up at one time for an hour-long class and then leave.

And you're good with that? Yes. Okay, does anybody have a problem with that? No. Okay, make it so.

To 13. All right. We'll come back and unscrew this up in a couple of years. All right. Anybody else want to comment on this? Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing like we already did. Do we have a vote? Motion? I'll move. Second. All right. Motion is second.

Motion is approved ordinances. Okay. Perfect. Do we are we ready for the presentation? Thank you.

I believe so. And Mr mayor, I'll introduce that topic on behalf of the, um, and I'll provide a little bit of context as to why I'm doing that now versus, uh. Um, which is not necessarily in line with with how I introduced the topic earlier. So, um. As part of our strategic plan, we have wording that expresses our support for public schools and specifically in support of exploring private public partnerships that would help improve the field conditions at some of our public schools. And specifically, we've been focusing presentation. Yeah, we've been focusing those conversations on the Palmetto

Who's up and with that, I'll let the come up to the podium.

All right, thank you. Any questions from the council?

Thank you very much. Any questions from the council?

I would just ask if we could get copies of that Those documents, if you have them electronically, if you could send them through the clerk, that would be great. Thank you. Thanks.

And just if I briefly, because the schools are here, I'm going to talk. Just not on the subject, I just want to, with Ms. Ralston-Cox here and the representatives from Palmetto Middle, I just want to use the opportunity to thank you all for everything you do for the school and for the community and to welcome Ms. Milian Valdez, who will undoubtedly get tired of me at the EAC next year. But it's great to have you all. Here, the incoming president of PTA, the outgoing. So many of you, Shapiro, good to have you back at Palmetto Middle. But thank you for all you do for our schools and our communit

The buzzer worked. The shock, the dog collar, yeah. Thank you.

Keep pushing that button. So we'll get more details on this in our work up to the budget as far as... Theoretically, yes.

Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. I have one other thing to say. Yeah. Listening to the gentleman, your presentation, which was well done, it reminded me way back when my kids were... small, I actually coached soccer. And we used the Palmetto Elementary over to the space that's right next to 124th Street, which was then wide open. This was back in, I think, the early 80s. And I was asked to coach. And I never played soccer, but I got the rule book out. And I figured it out. I used to tell the kids, just take it that way. Anyway, I had a woman come up to me and said, boy, you're such a goo

But anyway. Then they're done. And I think that field's planted with native plant of the month grass. It looks like it.

All right. Thank you all very much. Let's go to reports and recommendations. Village council. Did the plant of the month. Village manager. Communicated council. What do you got? Anybody got any questions for the Communicated Council?

You can do it again, though. You want to do it again?

No, no, no, that's fine. You want to find out which one you want to take home? No, no, no, let's go. All right. Any questions for the Communicated Council? Any questions for the Communicated Council? I see none. Tab 8, what's used governance day? Anybody? We got to do anything on that?

the speed limit change? I never want to talk about speed limit change, but you're bringing up all the greatest things. I think the village manager has an update on it. Oh, you were talking about, you were answering the manager. Do you want to do the roof thing while we're at it? Didn't we put the speed limit to bed already?

Anybody? Anybody care? I mean, you're here. You might as well go as far as I'm concerned. All right. Fire away. You want to do that one? Good.

Do we have questions? So they already paid a fine.

So they paid a total of what, $29,000? $29,000. Yes. $29,000, okay.

but those were other cases other than these three.

So now they're here and they want to settle this thing, pay the hard costs of 3,148.08 and basically a fine of 25,000.

Well, I already could figure it out. What do you want? I'd accept that offer and settle this and move on because they didn't, it seems to me like they've come... Well, let me finish. I mean, what I've heard, what I've read, they just took over the property a year ago. All of this stuff goes back to, what, five years, six years ago? Right. Yeah, third owner, whatever. Here we are. They've already taken care of $20,000 in fines, and they're willing to pay the hard costs and make another payment. I say, let's accept that and move on. That would be my vote.

Any thoughts? I don't disagree with you. I mean, they've only got, there's only $3,100 in hard cost total to this whole thing. And that includes staff time? Time? Yes.

Thank you. Yes, I'm still awake. I'm still awake. In case you were counting me out. I'm even more awake now that Spain has beaten France in the World Cup. That makes me happier. But that's just my personal preference. Okay, so...

Hang on. He just interjected. What was the final score?

Okay, so... You get to pick both teams that are in the finals. Hang on a minute. If you're Argentinian, you don't get to be a Spain fan. You get one.

No, no, no. It's just that I prefer to play against Spain in the final.

Oh, you're counting the chickens. I see, I see.

Okay, so the questions I have are... I have two questions. So one is related to the acquisition price for the property. So how much did the... Did Carbonell LLC pay in foreclosure for the property? Can you clarify what that amount is? That's question number one. And number two, because maybe you have answers to both. Number two is, what was the appraised value of the property at the time that Carbonell acquired it in foreclosure?

Excellent. Thank you. And what was the appraised value of the property at the time that they won the bid for the acquisition?

Okay. All right. Let's just take low 4 million and round it up, round it up to 4 million. Cause that proves my point. When you're buying a property in foreclosure, you're, you know, you're going at it with risk number one, and you're assuming the risk and the value of that risk is the difference in value to 1.9 million, right? The 2.1 versus the 4 million. Um, And so you're taking that risk. You're assuming that this property is going to come with some surprises that you don't know what they will be. But in exchange for that, you're paying for almost half the value or the appraised value or th

If I may respond. Let me have the attorney, Amanda, you want to respond to that? Please. And then we'll go back. Hi.

Mr. Berman, Mr. Cabrera, first of all, thank you very much for the way you presented and all the history of it. We had a similar case for this not very long ago. Same situation, the property sold once or twice and then purchased. These fines are all baked into the purchase price of these properties. So I see no reason to discount now at this point to waive all these fees. I mean, whoever it's been purchased, what, three times with all these fines attached to it? So that's got to be. I don't know. I've never bought a house in foreclosure, so I don't know. Do you not know that there's $300,000 w

How could you not know? How do you not know?

OK, so that would be his fault. What I would, what I do agree with The fact that he jumped right on this, I do like the idea of going with the table with the freeze, the $407,000. Because it appears he bought it, immediately contacted the village, started doing something. Then this legal matter came up about ownership. He didn't have title to the house. You don't want to give him a discount? I think at that point, going with the 407 would be very appropriate. But I would not waive the fees any further than that because, again, it's baked into what he paid for the house.

I understood. He came in and did a great job trying to button everything up. That's fine. that liability.

Right. And that's why we should waive the $180,000.

And your rationale is that everybody knows that these fines are there. And when you bid on the house, you bid on it with those in mind.

You can make a gamble that you'll get them waived. But that's a gamble.

Well, I have a question then. I'm sorry.

I don't see how anybody doesn't know that this fine exists on the property. And when you don't know, it's their mistake. You're going to defer to him?

No, I mean, I remember my previous term on this council, we had a lot of these kinds of, a lot, a number of these situations. And we'd have our fines on a daily basis running up, sort of on paper. I don't recall. Maybe Mitch can answer. These fines, are they liens on the property? Are they actually liens? Are they liens? Yes, we lien the property. OK. So when in foreclosure, and this property has gone through a number of iterations.

So if we weren't listed, that means the, pardon? I'm sorry.

Okay, that was where I was coming from. If we were not listed and somebody takes property under foreclosure and is not aware of these liens that go back five or six years.

Well, okay, but let me finish my thought was or is You know if this were the original property owner who allowed the property to to lay fallow and all that that's one thing and but I don't think which is why I thought and what council has said, and what I remember from other incidents, Joe, Mr. Mayor, that we had similar type things where we had these enormous fines, and then somebody came in and purchased and did what we wanted, cleaned up the property. We looked at them as sort of on paper, a number, but then said, okay, let's resolve this for the new person. These aren't supposed to be puni

No, they're not here. I get that, but there's no way to quantify that other than, yeah, you don't want to live next to a place like that.

I don't want to speak over you, Vice Mayor, but I agree with you. I mean, I think, look, honestly, I don't find this one particularly close. I would be willing to go with the whole thing, but I'm okay with the 407 that the Vice Mayor proposed, and I'll tell you why. These fines, yeah, but yeah. I mean, these fines are not, I don't view it as punitive. I appreciate the comments from Councilman McDonald, but I don't view it as punitive. I view these as essential to our neighborhoods. They were neighbors who were affected. These things have to be upheld. They're critical to the quality of life in

OK, interesting. I don't know if I remember correctly. If Councilmember Huckammer were here, she would be kicking both you and I under the table on this one, because I think we hammered those guys in the past.

Did we really? I seem to remember making decisions, though, where we sort of, OK, let's move on and make and make a deal.

That's true, but usually there are a little different circumstances. But we just had a case right before you came on, Jim, that it was a six-figure, and it was the same sort of thing. They had purchased a house. knowing that those fines were there and then wanted them relieved from those fines.

And if they knew it, that's one thing. I'm hearing that your guy didn't know it. Well, again, here's what I'm seeing. I'm just looking at this. We're looking at whatever it is, $400,000. I don't want to say, well, she's a lawyer. You're a lawyer. If I get hit, I'm the owner, and I get hit with this, and I didn't know anything about it, there's enough money at stake here to drag us all into court and sue us over it. I mean, not that we have to. I'm just saying, is there an issue of notice? My whole point is on this kind of thing, let's settle it with a number that satisfies us and move on, and that's all I'm saying. Got it. And whether it's $50,000 or whatever.

Well, this is where I would, with Council Member Greenberg's point, Once he did own it outright, he took care of it. And apparently, if I'm to believe what I read here, there was a point in time where he could do nothing to the property, even though it was up in the air with a title dispute. So we're relieving them of that time frame of those fines accumulated. So that's where I'm thinking, does he deserve? That's something he maybe had no control of. They came up, and he did get right on it once that time passed.

I mean, I just want to, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. I don't believe there's a plausible, the concern that you raised, Council Member McDonnell, is about notice and whether there's a risk to us is fair. I don't think there's a plausible notice claim. I find it unfathomable. But to me, and I don't know, maybe this is a question for Mitch or for somebody, I don't If there's a risk that the homeowner is going to look at this and say, I didn't have notice. I'll see you in court. Well, I don't want to mitigate this thing. I mean, I would do the mitigation to 407. If we're going to give them the benefit

Yeah, I mean, I would do that. I mean, I don't, I would, if we can do that legally, sure. I mean, I would have a mitigation condition on a release. I don't want to mitigate $180,000.

Yeah, I mean, I would want to do that. And again, I'm not trying to make this adversarial, but I'm not hearing that from, this isn't, they're not up there waving the saber and saying that, but if there is any risk, sure, if we're going to mitigate $180,000, I would suggest we do it on the condition of a release.

Okay, well, I get the lay of the land. Do we need a public comment on this? Okay, so with that, if you all don't mind, I'll open the floor for public comment. Mr. Sanchez, welcome back. Hey, how's it going, guys?

Appreciate that. Anybody else from the public want to comment on it? Mr. Spicer. Welcome back, Harry. Yes, thank you very much.

That's all I can say. You managed to insult both parties, so Ms. Manager, why don't you respond to that?

But this isn't a question and answer period except for us. So, okay, so anybody else from the public want to comment on this? Ms. Clark, anybody online?

I'm the only person who can invite you. Now you know that.

I knew that before because she raised her hand. I'm going to go through the process. Anybody online wants to?

of this, any more debate or does somebody want to make a motion?

Mr. Mayor, I have one question for Mitch so I understand before I make a motion. So what Council Member Greenberg was talking about, there's some provision we put about

Okay, so we're at that point where- So I would like to make the motion to

to levy the fine at $407,991.23 based on the following conditions that it's paid within 30 days and that there is a release of claims acceptable to the village attorney.

Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second? I'll second. All right, any final debate on that? All right, Mr. Clerk.

All right. Thank you all very much on that. Do we have this thing, parking analysis for fitness and medical centers? Did we already go over that? We went over it. Okay, so that's done. That's done.

Anybody care about that? Yes. Well, the chief's here.

Questions? I have one. Sir? So on the 77th Avenue streets, is it mostly the 77th Avenue that the cars are running, the reds? Or is it the cross streets? What have you got here? 120, 128, and 132nd?

It would be the same answer then for 112 and 104? Correct. Okay, got it.

I just had a question. I think this is great. And I, of course, defer to the chief's recommendation on this. In the earlier iteration, it was all on Ludlum. So I know that to the extent the word was shared about this, it would be, hey, we're putting cameras in on Ludlum. Obviously, this changes it a bit, but is the plan, can you just remind me what the plan is when these are deployed? Is there gonna be an announcement, hey, we're putting cameras here?

I have a feeling you'll figure it out pretty quick. Yeah, when you get the note. But will this have a substantial cost change?

Go ahead. Go ahead. Then we'll let the chairman go since he's in the room.

I have a question for the chief. Um. As you did the studies on these other intersections, did you study the ones on 67th that had been originally studied by the vendor?

But your staff, it is the village that did the studies on these other new intersections?

who did the study on these additional intersections? Was it us or the vendor?

Okay, all right. Thank you. Thanks for clarifying.

Mr. Pearman? So back in our February meeting when we approved these, it was for five red light cameras. It was... From my remembrance of it is basically a trial that we were gonna check out the red light cameras, see how effective they would be on 67th Avenue. At that time, there were two of the intersections that they classified as tier three, which were less of a problem intersections than the other ones, the two that you have mentioned. The discussion became should we look at other intersections to take those two and spread this out around the village a little bit more rather than having ev

Everybody spoken? I'm inclined to go with what the chief says. So what do we want to do? We got to do something. We got to come to at least a consensus. Well, we're just going to put them everywhere then? No, I think anywhere there's a problem, I guess. Well, I don't know if we've looked at every intersection. Well, we haven't, but the ones we've looked at where there's a problem, he's recommending. I mean, I don't know how you... ignore a life safety issue like that.

And we're hearing the chief say, based on the experience of the police department, this is where we should move them to because they haven't, the results where they currently are haven't demonstrated the need, so he's giving us a recommendation to move them. I think we should listen to the chief's recommendation.

Okay. And if they don't, I guess what we're saying is we find out that there is not an issue there. What's it matter? We just keep them up.

I know, but it's still more cameras, more infrastructure at these intersections. There's other lit intersections we're not taking care of. I think it's an overreach. That's just my personal opinion. We approve five. We saw that there's, we looked into others to see if we should spread that out instead of keeping on 67th Avenue. We found two good intersections that above all the others qualify. Let's just move the two and keep it at five and get it started and see how it affects the traffic. Again, last year, 39 tickets were issued for running red lights in the village of Pinecrest. So how big

Why would you argue with preventing people from, not preventing them, but fining them for running red lights? It's like speeding through the schools. Right. Listen, I agree. It's OK to speed through a school zone. But there is a toll for that. And that's what this is. Go ahead and run as many red lights as you want. But there's a fine for it. Because it's unsafe.

Right. And we could. It's deadly. And at the same time, we were talking about lowering the speed limits when we decided on the five red light cameras. And I'm not a fan of red light cameras. But it is a safety issue. And we're showing that there's a lot of people running these red lights. So you're right. I mean, we could. we could put cameras everywhere in the village and make it maybe safer, but look at us one, not a huge reduction in red light running, but a good bit of revenue coming into the village. But I don't know if it's made it a lot safer.

All right. So who's in favor of the chief's recommendation? I guess that's the question.

I am so I have a question for, you know. Generally speaking, I agree this is a safety matter and as such, if we have a solution recommended by the chief to address the safety matter, we should before and support it. And that's my opinion. I, you know. I'm curious if the chief has any data or any insights as to whether these types of deployments, these types of cameras do actually impact the number of red lights that drivers run. Because we're not going to be the first village that installs them. So what are the statistics? What does the data prove or show in other deployments, other cities tha

All right. So the question was, who agrees with the chief's recommendation? I've got one. Ariel's got two. Three, four. OK. So we don't need to vote. That's the consensus, right? Is that all you need, Mitch? We don't need a voting on this?

OK, in an abundance of caution, even though we're not voting. All right, does anybody want to comment on this? Open to the public? Seeing none. Seeing none. We'll close the public hearing. Nobody online, I'm assuming? or nobody online cares, that's fine. All right, submission of the budget. That's different than tab 13?

All right. Any questions? This is for like an impact fee type of thing, right?

Got it. All right. Understood. It's not an impact fee like a developer comes in. No. It would be on the property.

Okay. Any questions from us? Just a comment.

I mean, I think I support doing the study. I think we'll have time once we have the study to make decisions about what to do with it. But I think we need the information. This goes to the point that it's that from, I guess, a number of us have been beating, but about we need to be concerned about what happens. Look, this may be something we need to do anyway, but especially something we need to be concerned about what happens if this ridiculous expansion of the homestead exemption passes. And there's still a very real chance, even though all of its proponents, the rats, have fled the ship beca

Okay, anybody from the public want to comment on this? Mr. Spicer?

All right, thank you. Anybody else? All right, seeing none, we'll close the public comment period. Do we have a motion? I'll move. All right. Second. Motion to favor? Okay, second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. All right, motion passes unanimously. Excellent, all right.

I'd like to know. Again, we're talking about... Let me see. You guys know how I feel about getting too fancy with some of these things. These race crosswalks should be fairly straightforward. Some concrete, some asphalt, some markings. And we're making them into something fancy that's costing us a lot of money. I'd kind of like to know where Metro was and what their... and what they're taking off of their bid to do the simplified version that we talked about.

pavers, concrete, colored concrete, regular concrete, asphalt, traffic markings. I mean, I understand.

In fact, Jim, you sent us a great video that showed elevated crosswalks. I think it was in Canada. I think it was in Canada that you sent us.

No, it hasn't been in Canada. It could have been Houston.

Well, you might have seen it. I don't think you took the video. I think you just shared it. The original.

You're right. I did. I sent it to you when it was in Houston. You've never been to Canada? No, not recently. OK, I was going to say. You said Houston. OK. traffic down, especially when they're turning in and out of the streets. It's a safety issue for people on bicycles.

That's why we want to do it. I noticed in that video that you sent, they were very basic. They were still quite functional and they worked.

See, it got cheaper. We were heading in the right direction, correct. We were heading in the right direction.

And what's the reason why you're suggesting we do it now and not at the September meeting? Is it a?

So what's the alternative? To not do it? Right? You don't spend the money. What are you going to do? Give it back? You have to give it back. The whole idea. It's not our money.

Yeah. Correct. OK, so. The idea is a good one, a race crosswalk. It's a safety issue. Right.

But that's what you'd do anyway, wouldn't you?

It was $66,000 less than the new low bid.

which is 66,500 roughly above what the low bidder originally was, which was a 745.

I got no problem with it. I think it's not our money. We'd have to give it back to whomever gave it to us. And this is exactly the process that we'll be going through anyway. When the low bidder pulls out, you pick the next low bidder. They revise their bid because we value engineering. We got a price that's less than, it's 8% higher than we did before, which is not necessarily significant. And if we don't spend the money. We have to return it. We're going to return it. And we got to vote on this anyway to give you authorization. So if we don't do it now, we don't even vote on it now, we're li

So construction has to be done, or just? Construction, we have to have spent the money. Did you spend it? And what's, the money is from, I just wanna make sure I understand, the money is from?

So it is our money, though. It's our money. It's not like it's a grant that we then get back. No, no, no.

I guess the question is we're committed to the project in the first place. We're spending 8% more money. Is that the reason not to do the project? whether you vote on it now or you vote on it whenever, is that the reason to risk the project? I say no. Same project. We all were committed to it. It's 8% more now. TODD BANDUCCI- Right.

We need to do it. We would have approved it if we didn't have that other low bid that bailed. And we would have paid more. We would have still paid more.

We would have just authorized a little bit before because we were committed to the project. And this will be the first raised sidewalk.

I think that's a great, a crosswalk rather. I think it's a good step in the right direction to see how these work because I can see application in the future in this town of having raised crosswalks for safety, life safety issue for walkers and bicycles.

Okay, so does somebody want to make a motion? I will. Motion to accept the second bidder. Anybody want to second it? Second. All right, chairman got it. Okay, all in favor say aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? Aye. Nope, unanimous. All right, what's next? Budget. All right. Pass the gavel.

I'm good with taking a five-minute recess.

Very much, very much awake. There's a Mozart concert where they have dancing, ballet. I went there years ago. I can't remember the name of it. It's a touristy thing, but it's great.

Is it at the Mirabelle Gardens? Does that ring a bell?

Oh, you made it? Ariel, you made it back. I made it. I made it back.

My wife made sure that I was muted when I went to the bathroom.

No fun, like the naked gun. Remember when he goes in?

All right, let's bring it back to order.

Okay. This is everybody's favorite thing. We're back. The only reason we're here.

So why set that rate in the first place?

We'll have- So you could set the rate at whatever you wanted, the maximum rate, the tentative rate, and you can change it whenever you want. Correct. You can lower it. You can lower it.

So you can go higher, you just got to notice.

We need four out of five votes to maintain that rate. Correct. OK, so the main question.

It would be a good idea to go over that tonight.

Could you explain that in a little bit more detail? 8.2% increase in expenditures. We spent that or we're planning on spending it? what is built into the budget. To the future one-year proposal.

Those are all choices that we're making.

But that doesn't include just the ambient cost of things.

So 8.2 increase in expense. In the coming budget, the current millage rate that you're proposing would allow us an 8.2 increase in expenditures. That would be new expenditures? New expenditures.

So that would give us the option of, if we didn't spend that kind of money, we could stick that into reserves for a potential with this homestead exemption nonsense that's going on. In other words, we'd be able to save 8.2%?

So that includes the 2.0%? Everything. Oh, OK. I got it. Correct.

The point, too, is also at the inflationary cost of things this year.

To go to 2.503, which is our current rate.

Okay? So to clarify though, at this meeting today, We'll vote on a preliminary military and. For that to pass, we just need a simple majority. We don't need. You know, say, I'm just going to an illustrative example. Imagine today we said we will vote. Somebody makes a motion for 2.5, 2.53, the current military. And then that motion gets the support of three votes today, then it passes. And then that becomes the preliminary military. But for a military, yeah, the tentative, exactly. But then for the final military to become the law, basically, in Pinecrest, you will need four votes to rectify t

Yeah. What's two-thirds of five? OK. Yeah, that column, it's not as clear as it could be.

So how many councils have even numbers of people? None?

So you're saying that if that passes, we're into an austerity mode. We're going to be laying off staff.

And I know we talked about the summit. Is that with or without? That's as it currently stands now, right? Those numbers are based on if the amendment as it's currently written passes, correct? Because just to make this even more fun, there's a more dire scenario that's very realistic, which is that this passes. But well, the order would be this follows, the Supreme Court could very well declare that the five-year waiting period for new residents to Florida is unconstitutional, because it is. So if that is stricken, that means that we wouldn't even have any revenue. Right now, as it's currently

It looks like we're between the old rock and a hard place here. We've got a legislature that passed this rollback of the elimination of homestead exemption in one day, no consideration whatsoever. And then, of course, they throw the ball at us. So it seems we could keep the millage rate of 2.503, which was last year, and hope for the best. Hope for the best. Or we can raise it to 26041 and say, because these yo-yos in Tallahassee did this without any consideration, so we're going to have to raise our millage rates for the coming year, in effect, as sort of a semi-insurance that we're going to

Well, really it's not, I mean, that conversation is not necessarily about this year, but it's like, how do you generate new revenue sources or additional revenue in the future? We only have 6,000 homes. There's only so much you can do. But you need more than 6,000 homes.

Those things are- You're only making density changes, right? The last changes we made still haven't gotten anybody to bite. In fact, we're losing- power on the US-1 corridor. It's almost like it's going out of business.

That's not true. I mean, you could do a lot on US-1 and not impact one ounce of the residential character of the interior pinecrest. The concept of all the US-1 vision plans that we've done dating all the way back to the beginning, never had commercial intrusion outside of the commercial corridor. It never intruded into the residential area. In fact, what we've done is push the residential into the commercial corridor, not the opposite way around. So that's a fallacy that reconsidering land use and zoning on the US 1 corridor impacts the residential character of Ion Crest neighborhood. It's ju

You could put giant things out there and not impact the nature of the residential quality of life. And the proof of that is that story that I told with the folks that developed a half acre property literally in the shadow of day land and took a half acre property, put 7,500 square foot home on it, sold it for $7 million. It doesn't degrade the property values literally in the shadow of Dayland Station. And it actually increases the property values, which is the national trend. So that's a fallacy. I know some people would disagree with it, but they're going through attrition. The new person in

But that's I know it's not typical what you do, but should we move on to tab 13 that I guess is what you're asking us want to read that may have may have may have just makes just reflect a little bit on on the conversation and also the document that the manager shared with us. And I think all of us know there's, I mean, this is the busiest time of the year, maybe for our staff. And when it comes to planning, there's a lot of work that goes into this. So, 1st of all, I wanted to acknowledge that and thank the manager and the staff for for the great work that always takes place. You know, I want

I believe that direction has been provided already in some past council meetings. We can maybe discuss it again, but if I recall properly, there have been a few council meetings in the recent past where we've talked about the need to begin to assess what that looks like and that we had discussed, not in the last meeting, but in the meeting before that one.

Of 2028 for me to prove that all that to counsel, but I think if not in the last council meeting in the in the 1 before it, we had discussed the possibility of including it as part of our budget workshop conversations. And if we're going to have a, you know. An informed conversation during the budget workshops, then I think we should, we should begin to think about what that can look like now so that the staff can provide us with options or topics or how we can approach it.

I think my opinion is that it's never too early to start having those conversations. Anything we would possibly discuss at this point in time in this budget would be a planning exercise anyway to collect data and gather information. You couldn't necessarily do anything. So I don't see why we don't do that. I would imagine that you've got a new council coming in in the fall. you know, that group is going to have to, it seems like a lot of hard work.

We ought to start framing, I mean, I don't mind framing that conversation this time, but ultimately.

So to answer the question, I would say it's probably worth the discussion during the budgeting process.

And I think what we approved earlier in terms of the transportation fee is a step in that direction. And I agree we have to be having these conversations. And we did talk about it at a prior meeting. I didn't view it as part of this discussion. It's a little semantic. I don't think it's part of this particular budget process, because we have to create a budget from what we have. But I think in conjunction with that, we should be having these conversations. And I know that there's talk of doing some after budget, doing some workshops, too, about the state tax referendum and other option. And I

I think part of the budget has to almost be to educate our constituents on what that means to the village of Pancras. Effectively, we pride ourselves on the highest level of service that we can possibly get out of our very, very small budget, one of the lowest in Miami-Dade County. We're going to obliterate that, right? There will be no... The level of service that we provide will not exist anymore. This will become... it'll become the lowest quality of service that the public could possibly tolerate, because there will simply be no money. We don't have staff in the first place, in spite of wh

People move here, people live here because of the service that they get from our government, Pinecrest government, the things we've done in the last 30 years.

Yeah, not to have the Wild West. Exactly. So you can't go, right. You can't just do whatever you wanted to do. Anyway, all right, so yeah, let's move to tab 13 because that's where we set the numbers. So Ms. Clark, will you read that?

All right, who wants to pick a number pick a number between 1 and 10 and that's effectively what we get.

No, I think another aspect of the conversation needs to include our reserves. And the way they have evolved over the years. I think we could all agree that would have. dollar buys you today is very different than what a dollar bought you 10 years ago or five years ago and i don't know if our reserves have been growing at the same rate as we've seen the cost of things go up or i know the cost of our projects capital projects has probably doubled you know um over the course of the last five to seven years Um, so I don't know if the level of our reserves have doubled over the last 5. To 7 years,

I think that reserve is one of the factors that we need to think about for sure. My recommendation is, well, we have a recommendation. My preference would be to go with what the manager said. I mean, in prior years, it's interesting. I mean, in prior years, it's often that the manager recommends something higher, and then the council wants to lower it. I know we're in odd times now, but the bizarre world. But I think, to me, It's a sound starting point. We did increase it last year. We increased it for the first time in a very long time. And at least when I did it, when I voted for the ultimat

Well, I've always looked at the process, and the process was we set this tentative millage rate, and then we have public input, and then we decide what we want to do in the end, which is what we finally did last year. Now, granted, a little different situation. We had a budget that was enormous. A lot of things that people wanted to do, council people wanted to do, and we couldn't get them all done, and we settled to a number. I think going into the discussion, I'd have to stand by that same idea that we'd go slightly higher to give us some room to discuss and debate and find out what the grea

Is what Ken just said, the difference between 2.503 and 2.6041, $800,000? Yeah. Can you bring up the chart that has the different millage rates?

I came into this thinking, and I'm still thinking that way, but go with the manager's recommendation. Then as I think it more, I think what we're in this position because of these people that we send to Tallahassee who that is totally irresponsible with no input other than the governor dictating to them. And they've passed it. And they're about to try to gut our town and every other city in this village in this state, which is lousy government at its worst. I mean, it's just terrible. So one way of trying to hedge a little bit is to raise the village by a tenth, which is nothing, really. But I

But not a lot of people were against it. The referendum was defeated. Oh, I understand. In significant landslide-like numbers. You're absolutely correct. There was a very loud, very... Yes. A poignant minority. Yeah. So it was actually very favorable in Pinecrest. You're absolutely right. 70% of the people liked it. I stand corrected. You're absolutely correct.

I just remember the vociferousness of all the stuff that was going on. Loud and, yeah, whatever. Believe me, I know. I knocked on doors for two months against that thing. So I would say, though, that I would go with the manager's rate recommendation of 2.503. And then this village will deal with whatever happens in November.

So I'm with vice mayor Furman here. And, um, To me, we're doing a disservice to ourselves and the community by shutting down the potential conversations that could take place, the potential decisions that could take place as we workshop through this together more or hear feedback from the community. If we weren't to incorporate an additional buffer in this tentative military that we passed today, Um, to accommodate for that, so, um, it doesn't mean that we are voting for a tax increase. Not at all, because the conversations that take place during the workshop may lead us. To keep in the milita

All right. Okay. Interesting. So, right now, if we had to. I guess what you all are saying, this doesn't have really anything to do with what we vote on in the long run. This is just for discussion purposes. And I start to think then, what's the point? Because if this is the feeling that we have now, no matter what the number we discuss is, if this was the way the vote would come out, we have to go back to the rollback rate. Because it takes four out of five to do anything but the rollback rate at this point in time.

That's my recommendation. I mean, yes. I mean, look, I think, theoretically, Sure, if there was some great way we could lower it, I'm sure everybody in this would. But I think it's fair to say we're not.

Also, I think phrased another way, I don't think there's anybody who would be willing to throw us off a cliff like that. I mean, whatever agreement or disagreement we have in this realm of 2.5, 2.6, I think we will all make sure we don't come to it.

Well, I mean, the fact is, what do you want to go with? Well, my point's always been, why go through this exercise if we're not able to consider something higher? That's a tentative rate. Discuss it. Maybe this middle school project takes great gets a great demand from the public, and we decide that we need to change the budget around it, we have that option.

If not, what rate do you want to go to? No, I'm sorry. Let's say it differently. You're not suggesting that we're going to do a higher rate. What you're suggesting is that for the purposes of discussion, as we put a budget together and start to go to the workshops, that we give ourselves the latitude to explore the entirety of this budget and not pin ourselves in anything. But you're perfectly willing to accept the manager's recommendation right now. But for discussion purposes, you want to have freedom. And for bringing the public into the discussion. You want to have that freedom. Right. So

I've always, since I came on council, always thought that, why aren't we doing that? Because what's the public, you know, give them their voice to say, absolutely, don't spend another dime. Or I want the middle school project done because I got a bunch of families that live on money and they want to go out there and play.

What I'm hearing is that there's not advocacy to go to a higher rate. There's just the advocacy to have the discussion. Okay. What rate? 2.6, was that the one Mr. Meyer suggested?

And the one Jim suggested. It's right here.

I'll support that. Anybody got a motion? We'll open the public comments. Anybody from the public want to speak? Seeing none. Nobody wants to speak on the budget. Well, candidates in the room, nobody wants to speak on the budget. Duly noted. All right. Public hearings closed. Anybody online?

Yeah, so I'm clear. So what we're talking about is for discussion purposes, we're going to set it at 2.6041. which is just for discussion purposes. And then when we get finished with our budget workshops, and then in September, we'll decide what the permanent rate is going to be. Yes, sir. OK. So this is merely for discussion purposes. Total discussion purposes. Whatever shakes out during our workshops in August.

I move that we set the tentative millage rate at 2.6041. I'll second.

We have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed?

Yeah, because I mean, as I said, I think I don't I don't support. I'm not going to support raising it. And I don't think that after especially after last year, I don't think I don't use the word irresponsible because I completely appreciate what I personally don't like the idea of sending out there a higher number that I can't support in the long run. And I think it creates a – runs the risk of a furor and everything we dealt with that I thought was counterproductive. That said, I respect where people are coming from. But I don't vote like you support it either.

I don't think I'm going to support it either. That's why I think if we voted to – I mean, it – I – I wouldn't support it, honestly. But if it's for discussion, I'm all for it, because it's a good topic to discuss.

And I certainly respect that. To me, it's a process point, though. And my concern, I think that the discussion should be especially if there's not going to be an appetite to go higher than that anyway, I think there is a very serious discussion to have about what we do with that 2.503 number. And for example, if, as the Vice Mayor is suggesting, there's an uproar in favor of the field, for example, then we're going to have to make decisions about other things. Because I don't think we're in a position where we can be taking on any more of these obligations at this point anyway. Because especia

And I don't disagree with that whatsoever. I don't feel the same way in the sense that I think that it's a worthwhile discussion to give us flexibility because we haven't discussed the budget. We've only received it. But the way I'm reading it, probably this gets five to nothing, in my opinion, to stay exactly where it is. And this is for discussion purposes only, which I don't know how we could, my personal opinion is why not, why limit yourself to where you think you want to be if you just got this book tonight? And I just want to make that clear from my perspective. All right. And I would a

I'm for this tonight so we can have that discussion. And if it raises discussion within the village, I think it's going to be important for people to understand why we did it and that we are reacting to what the legislature did, what was potential coming down the pike. So as a responsible government, we look at... for discussion purposes. And I think that's good. And if people come in screaming and yelling, then it might be a way to educate them on what their legislature has done to us and every other city in the community.

May I just ask a question? How is the wording, how is the communication drafted to residents when they get this letter? Is there a reference to the millage rate in that letter? Or is there a reference to your taxes are going up by X? Because they're still going up, right? I mean, even if we get the same millage rate, their taxes are going up. Yeah, it will always say that their taxes are going up.

So to Council Member Greenberg, my first two years doing this, maybe one or two people had any interest in listening to Yosi's presentation about the budget. This is true. Or to have even good council discussion about the intricacies of the budget. When you came in last year, it was something that maybe we should have been doing more of now. It was extreme because it was extremely I relished that public input. It was, you know, yeah, people got angry, but the people that cared, that wanted to know came and found out, listen, we had to discuss it a lot more amongst ourselves and really come to

But just to be clear, we weren't going there. We were having a discussion. Right, but the tax, the notice they got showed. The only thing we really have to do, well, They think like somebody said that we do get paid too much. They do. Follow the money. Right, they wanted their money. But the only thing we have to do all year is have this discussion. And that a citizen would be upset that we're gonna have a discussion on a budget that we just got tonight that we're leaving our options open would be a disqualifier. I mean, we have to have this discussion. It's our job. I agree.

I just think we can have the discussion. Yeah, I get that. I'm just making a point. I do like the, like, hey, I signed up to do my council workshop in August again, and I'm going to maybe keep sending emails about raising taxes, because it's... Because it went easy last year. I think the dialogue is helpful and kind of fun. But, so, no, I do agree with that, and I think it's a well-taken point. And hopefully, Council Member Meyer and I can enjoy a slightly more peaceful August than last year, but maybe not.

We had like four people show up. Well, Joe remembers, and Ken, you were saying the same, and Cindy out there, years ago we had these budget hearings, and Yossi, on our final second reading or whatever, even during, we'd have two or three people out there in the front row that was hit. And I think the reason was we always kept the military low. We never, we fought to keep it down there. And it still is there.

Well, we've gone through the exact same process for over 30 years, and we still have one of the lowest millage rates in Miami-Dade County, right? And so the reason that I... voted to have the tentative rate higher last year was that I was, after sitting here for 20 years, I have no idea where people stand on this budget because nobody would come to this room. John Steinbauer, Mr. Kramer, Mr. Spicer would come and voice their opinion. Three people out of 18,000 people would come. People want to come out when the bulldozer hits the street, but nobody really cared about the budget. So I thought,

If you're nice to him, it's going to pressure clean your sidewalk. Mayor? Yes, ma'am. So are we good for September 10th and 22nd at 6 p.m.?

I'll even go as early as 5 o'clock. No, she said 5.01. 5.01.

Oh, my God. But in September, we only have two set, and that's both for budget. No, but we're going to have to. No, one of the meetings in September is the council meeting. Oh, okay, the 10th. Oh, I see what you're saying.

No, no, right? We're not having a meeting on the council meeting. So how do we avoid that? Can we start the budget hearing at 5.01 and do a council meeting at 3 to get that out of the way? Because, I mean, we don't want to dilute what would be a... We don't dilute the budget with the council. We can narrow the agenda down, right? Yeah. Can we do that? Anybody mind starting the council meeting on the 10th? At 3 p.m.?

That's okay with me. Are you anticipating a long budget? I'm trying to remember back. Did we have long budget? I don't know.

We just introduced the budget. It's taken three hours. We started at 4. It's 7.30.

I may have work commitments that day. Four? Four would be better than three. Is that okay? Yeah, I think so. I know that's a vague. Yeah, we can do. If we do four, four can be fine. That's fine. I would prefer that to three just because if I have to be downtown for some stuff at all.

I think four is a good compromise. I will be glad to be back in the U.S. No problem.

I get that part. That's usually, we think of it as Scottish. Except all my people came over from Scotland, Ulster, and they dropped the A 150, 200 years ago. Whatever. I see you got the green pants on, though.

Our previous planning director drove all the way from Fort Myers. Does he inherit the car?

But there won't be signs yet, I've heard enough.

We're glad to have you. Thanks very much. Thank you.

I thought you were going to sing the So Long, Farewell song.