Village Council - Regular Meeting

Testing. All right, we are live. Good evening, everybody. Good evening. That manager, he's so noisy talking. Well, happy July, happy Independence Day, happy 250th anniversary of our great nation. I am going to do a little bit of reading because I wrote comments and I, as of late, for some reason, get a little bit weepy. So I wanted to be able to stay on track. And this is probably, to me, one of the most special groups for those watching from home. Tonight, we are recognizing our freedom through service, and those servants are the public servants, the directors that serve our residents each an

So first of all, thank you to all the family members who came out tonight to recognize these amazing staffers here. Round of applause, yes. I will say, I really do appreciate each and every single one of you. A lot of you I've actually known since I was about this tall and about 14 years old. Parks Director Carmona, back when I was on the youth board, our village clerk, Messia Rocha as well. I've known both of you for a very long time, and it really speaks to your dedication to this community to be here for over 10 years, actually at least 12 years now, because I was elected or not elected, ap

Thank you, Mr. Vice Mayor. Yeah, it's a little melancholy for me to be in here the longest since November 2010. I've gotten to know everybody. Some of you are new, but many were here then. And I will tell you a quick story. So in 2010, I'm knocking on doors and I get to these apartments. around Publix, and I'm knocking on the door, I see the name on my list, Carmona. So I knock on the door, and I see, I said, oh, hello, Ms. Carmona. My name is Patrick Fiore. I'm running for Palmetto Bay City Council. She goes, I work there. I said, oh, okay. I said, well, I'd like to work there, too, maybe as

And thank you so much for putting up with me. I appreciate it. I work all the time, early in the morning, late at night, weekends, holidays, and I send a lot of questions and comments, and I appreciate your response. I really do. It's been a pleasure working with you. Many of you for eight years, some of you for less, but you've been great. You're wonderful. Thank you so much.

Thank you. And as I learned in law school, always try to get the last word. So that's why I grabbed the microphone now. I don't know. We're going to have a foot race later. and see who's faster. Now, I also wanted to pass on my thanks to you all. The first person I met at a department head level was Missy Orocha. I was in a wheelchair. I came in to talk to her about running for office. In fact, I showed up on the last day, practically the last hour, with my paperwork and my checks. And she gave me encouragement, and I said, I have to win this race because I want to work with this lady. And sin

As my mom used to say, never say never. Say hasn't happened yet. So hasn't happened yet. I think these folks deserve a round of applause. So let's give it up for the village directors. Thank you to each and every one of you. We're going to start our meeting in about seven minutes. Oh yes, absolutely, I forgot, yes, please, come on up. Family members. Extended family, come on up.

Robert, can you look at them and tell? Because some of these folks, you're not going to see them. They're in the back. Yeah, come this way. Javi, bring your family over here.

Have a good evening. Thank you. I don't like banging the gavel, but I'm going to ask you all to get quiet. Our meeting actually started a couple of moments ago when we went live, so thank you so much. Appreciate everybody's attention. Thank you. So we're going to go ahead and start our regular council meeting. Today is July 6th, and we're starting just a couple minutes late. I think it's 7.04. With that, I turn it over to our village clerk. If she would call the roll.

Thank you. With that, I turn it over to Council Member Patrick Fiore for invocation. Thank you.

We can all bow our heads in prayer. Tonight's reading is from Isaiah 33, verses 16 and 17. He shall dwell on high. His place of defense shall be the munitions of rocks. Bread shall be given him. His water shall be sure. Thine eyes shall see the king and his beauty. They shall behold the land that is very far off.

Amen. So we have a special treat tonight. I can't say the youngest anymore, but one of our youngest Palmetto Bay family members, Miss Eva, could you come up and could I get everybody to please stand? Eva is going to, she goes to True North in Pinecrest, just one city away. And she is the beautiful daughter to Missy and Eric. Missy is our village clerk. Miss Eva, is the mic on? You want to just double check that for her dad?

Let's give her a big round of applause. Ms. Seva, we are so proud of you. You are growing up very beautiful. I'm not going to go ahead and read the decorum statement. I will just say before we get rolling here, we have a lot of items on tonight's agenda and some of these are probably going to require some significant discussion. I'm just asking if we could keep our comments as brief as possible as we kind of work our way through it. If you've got longer comments you want to make, I'm happy to stay even later so we can get those on the record during our council comment portion. But if we can ki

Anyone opposed? Okay. So I know we also have troop, is it 2311? 2311 in the house. This is going to be your opportunity to speak during request petitions and public comments. It's also an opportunity for all of you to speak. We have a very long consent agenda, and I know some folks came out to speak to items thinking, They might not be on the consent agenda. So this will be the time to speak to that as well. So with that, I turn it over to the public for requests, petitions, and public comments. And if you don't mind queuing up, it'll just make things go a little bit faster if you're able to s

So if you like that comment, you can do this.

We just do this. We try not to applaud, but this shows a sign that you're happy with the comments. Thank you.

Thank you. They will be, I'm sure. Thank you very much. Next speaker, please.

Go ahead, sir. Your name and address, please.

If you're not going to speak now, you won't be able to speak later when the item comes.

I'm going to give you another 30 seconds, but then you'll have to wrap it up. Thank you.

Thank you. I just asked if Fannie could come out and accept it on our behalf. We can give a round of applause for the Parks Director. Thank you. And your item passed. We'll hope it's on consent. So you're good. Well, welcome, young ladies. How are you? Very good. Can you pull the mic down? And why don't you let mom just give us your name and address. Is that all right? These are all minors?

Use your big voice, okay? You pretend you're outside on the playground because my ears don't always work. Good. Thank you, Savannah.

Thank you. So if I'm understanding, and we don't usually go back and forth during request petitions and public comments, but if I'm understanding correctly, you're asking for two things. One is a location to place a box, and two is assistance from our communications department in sharing that location. And I would leave it to the manager to say no to these young ladies' faces. And I don't think he's going to say no. But here, I think he is going to give you his card And if you could follow up with him tomorrow, he'll likely have Parks give you a call. And could I give this? I know I left one.

Sure, yeah, sure. Let's move quickly, though, okay? Ladies, very good. Thank you. no no we've enjoyed it thank you thank you very much thank you thank you so much you're welcome ladies thank you all right so if it is we have one comment by form for request petitions public comments the office of the village clerk received one public comment submitted by form

Point of order, Madam Mayor. In deference to a number of people who are here tonight and Mr. Taha who requested it, I would like to move that item 14E, which is a resolution, be moved up on the agenda to be heard at the same time as 11C. They deal with a similar topic, religion policy.

Second. Just for the purposes of discussion, and I'll tell you my thought process, I was going to ask if we could do the millage rate first. Well, we're all fresh. Then 14E and 11C, back-to-back, which covers what you were requesting. And then we could move into our charter review items. There's an ordinance and then two resolutions and get those banged out. Does that work for everybody? Very good. Just so that I know I'm kind of moving, skipping around here, but Were any items pulled from the consent agenda? I just want to get those. I want to cross them out. It makes me feel good when I'm cr

Yeah, Madam Mayor, if I can be added as a co-sponsor to the EDC item that you brought along with the cystic fibrosis item, I'd like to be added as a co-sponsor for that, please.

Sure. That's great. Thank you. Okay. So it we move the consent agenda items now that's been moved this or second all those in favor anyone opposed okay so not for nothing we got done through item a to i so i feel good like we accomplished a lot all right very good if it's our if it's if it's also okay with the council if we could forego the um the three reports this evening With one exception, Mr. Manager, I know that you had put out something regarding a survey. I did, ma'am. And maybe we could have that discussion, if that's okay. Yeah.

And I'm also wondering, right after the millage, if we could also bring up the dependent district, because it's also linked with that. So I'm wondering, right after the millage rate discussion, we can bring the ordinance related to the dependent district.

And actually, I didn't. I don't even think we voted. I think we just kind of nodded on the motion. So just to go back to the original motion, it was 14A, 14E, 11C, 14B. I'm missing one. It was 14A, 11C, and 14B. I took it as unanimous consent. Okay.

Okay, if we could, and you're right. So it's 14A would be the millage. We'll do that first. Then it would be 14E and 11C, both dealing with villages, social media. We'll just do them back-to-back and... be done there's there's three charter review items so it would be um 10a which is an ordinance and then 14b and 14c and then you had what did you have so 11b is directly related to 14a which is the special district okay i understand what you're saying okay so then it would be 14a and 14b

11B, I'm so sorry. Is that good with everybody?

Yes, before ordinances on second reading. Although 10A will be heard... It'll be 10A, 14B, and 14C. Okay, got it. but those will be grouped together a little bit later. Yes, of course, I'm sorry, Missy, I made the decision right after you left the meeting earlier, so I apologize. So let me try it again for the clerk. We're gonna do 14A and then 11B, both of those dealing with our budget. Then we're going to do 14E and 11C, Both of those are dealing with village social media policy. And then we're going to do three charter review items in this order, 10A, 14B, and 14C. Got it? Okay, very good.

Is there a second? This is the millage rate.

Madam Clerk, can you please read the item?

Thank you. And Mr. Manager, because I skipped right over it, would you mind talking about the survey during, while you're talking about the budget?

I'm going to turn it over to Councilman Mattson because I believe you're the one that sent in comments. Yes, I did. Thank you.

Yes, I'd like to say that The manager and I have quite a vigorous discussion over this survey. And I did object to this survey, the reason being that it's not a scientific survey. And what that means is unless it's a scientific survey with randomization, validity tests, and reliability tests, it doesn't mean anything. And the greatest danger of a survey like this is that people will take it to be the expression of the people of the village, and it's not. It's like if I just threw a bunch of surveys out of a helicopter and then gathered them up, like whoever answered them. That's not the way sc

Yeah, so first of all, I appreciate you taking time to put this together. My core concern is this. I think with something as delicate as the budget, so many of you have told me your priorities over the last couple of years since I took office. Things like traffic, things like our parks, and a whole slew of other priorities that you have. I think that conversation that we need to have with residents actually belongs in person, in people's homes, at our parks, at our village hall, as frequently as we can. And I actually remember Councilman Madsen, Mayor Cunningham, and myself, we all traveled up

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I am in support of doing the survey. It gives us a data point. The councilwoman cries for scientific accuracy, and yet meeting with people who are willing to talk to us is not scientific at all. It's not, I don't think, a valid substitution one for the other. I think that this can give us a talking point. And we can find out from people, see where they live, see what their preferences are. And some of this is a survey that, as the manager went through it, is intended to inform before people take a stand on something. I'm all for it. Survey with a scientific survey would

Thank you. Council Member Fiore? Well, I was the one that asked for it, so I definitely support it. I asked for it last year as well. Vice Mayor, I would just say, comments not directed at you, but I agree with you. I also consider this one tool to use. We should definitely be engaging with as many residents as we can. I try and do that as often as I can. I'm a little handicapped right at the moment because I can't drive for another few weeks, but I have met with many residents at their doors and think that this would just be an additional tool. Not the be all, end all, just an additional tool

Yeah, can you mention maybe just really quickly The core concern I have with the survey as well is it's trying to do two things at once. If we're trying to get feedback, I think that's a valid thing to do. But as someone said, it's essentially a talking point or a tool. If you want to get a message out to residents and explain what's actually happening, which I think is part of the intent of the survey, I think the explaining and trying to get feedback should be two separate vehicles instead of having it all in one piece of survey. Because I think if you want genuine responses from people wher

Council Member Fury, I hate to do it to you, but I'm going to have to call for a vote on it because we have a survey. I don't know if you have any comments. No. Okay. Okay. If it's okay, can I just do a real call vote real quick to run through whether we move forward or don't move forward?

Yes, exactly, exactly. Okay. Madam Clerk, can you just call the roll on supporting moving forward with the survey that was presented this evening?

Okay, thank you. That's 3-2 and I think you have some direction.

Wonderful. Thanks for the great presentation. Questions for the manager? Council Member Cody, then Council Member Fiore. Okay.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. You gave us some figures concerning what the impact would be on the median house here in palmetto bay what would be the difference if you can do a back of a napkin kind of thing between what it would additionally cost going from 269 to 2.75 i'm going to ask the just in the interest of time council member if you don't mind i'm happy to answer additional questions in less

Thank you. You'll hold? I'll hold. Okay. Council Member Fiore? Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you had a question. Vice Mayor? No. Council Member Mattson? Yes.

Now, in this presentation and the budget workshop, I only heard the Vice Mayor talk about cutting expenses. So I'm going to ask you, is there any plan to cut expenses?

Thank you. Any other questions? All right. I think we have an answer to a question.

You're talking a little over $2 a month.

All right, discussion. Council Member Cody.

Thank you. I know that for politicians, the idea of we should cut taxes and we should cut expenses is something that's very appealing. Everybody wants that. Just like everybody wants to wake up younger, better looking, and personally richer, but often that's not going to happen overnight. We have gotten ourselves in a situation because of the tax rates that we have adopted on the last two budgets, we have caused the plane of Palmetto Bay, instead of flying level, to begin losing altitude. And every year that we are forced to go to the rollback rate or near the rollback rate, we lose more altit

Thank you, Councilmember. Vice Mayor comments? No?

yeah so a couple things um i really wrestled back and forth with where to land on this and this is an incredibly difficult decision tonight so many people have told me and this is something that i genuinely mean the budget that we're going to adopt as a council is the biggest statement of priorities that we can have as a community It's not found in our comp plan. It's not found in our zoning code. It's not found in anything other than our budget and what we spend our money on. So this is something that I take incredibly seriously. And tonight we're talking about setting potentially the highest

that i had been told that people feel are wasteful so that's where i'm at tonight and i'm looking forward to the discussion thank you well this is it this is the discussion uh council member fiori no councilman matson yes i looked over this budget very carefully the manager and i have had uh communication back and forth about it the two main issues are Our legal costs are skyrocketing. They're going to be over a million dollars. One of them has to do with a case that has been ongoing since I've been on council eight years, and it should not be continued. And the other one is a part of that leg

Thank you. Well, I am going to support. First of all, what we're talking about tonight is the maximum millage rate. It's not the millage rate. I think it just gives the manager some direction and his staff in putting together the budget, which we'll hear in July. Is that right? July 20th. July 20th. Thank you. you know we can point fingers till after the USA Belgium game is over and probably into tomorrow and the next day and the next day I see well our property values have increased I also I while I'm hopeful I do believe that we have kind of set ourselves because of our decreasing the millag

I would move that we change the number from 2.69 to 2.75.

Okay, it's been seconded. Discussion? Vice Mayor?

Yeah, a couple things. The first is that our legal budget... is enormous. I mentioned that during my comments. It's over $1.5 million. I am hoping that we have a more prudent council after November where some of those legal costs can be resolved and also we're not, for lack of a better term, spending time summing each other four different ways to Sunday, which is a literal statement, by the way, four different times since the last year. And maybe some of those savings from our legal budget can go into a capital investment fund to fund things like parks and other things. So I won't be supportin

Thank you. We're on discussion for the motion. Anyone else? Okay. Madam Clerk, do you want to call the roll if there's nothing else?

Okay, we're back on the motion unamended. If there's nothing else, I'm going to call the question. Madam Clerk, we are on the original item.

Yes. So just for my understanding, we just needed that simple majority, and that'll give you some direction.

I got it. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. All right, we are going to move forward. We move some items. Sorry. Item 11B, would somebody move it? Move it. Is there a second? Second. Madam Clerk, can you please read the item?

Wonderful. First speaker, public comment, come on up. Do you have comments by form, too? Thank you.

Great, thank you. All right, Vice Mayor.

thank you and i'm really excited to present this item tonight because i think it's one of the most important things that this council will hopefully be doing this meeting there's many other things on the agenda but this is something that's super important because public safety is the most important thing to our residents here in the village of palmetto bay without public safety nothing else follows whether it be opening up a business here going to work you name it our police are the backbone of our community and this item specifically gives them the ability to have, just like the fire departme

Questions? If I could, is it possible... I appreciate your explanation, but it was a very short explanation for such a big item. So is there, like, presentation that we're going to have uh is there i i don't know from the do you want sheriff's office or is yeah that i think at least that would because i think part of what's happening is that we're i mean i've read it and we've talked about it but i also think maybe some of the comments are because people don't understand it uh i had originally asked if this would go to a committee of the whole, and I still am going to put it on the committee o

Yeah, to some degree. I'm in a special taxing district in my area, so I'm familiar with my tax bill.

Mr. Manager, there was some questions regarding how it impacts the rest of the budget. Can you give us some highlights? Right.

don't know if the vice mayor wanted to jump in first I'll be happy to answer that yes yes so a couple of things so all this does is so in Florida law there's two ways of essentially creating a new line item in a tax bill all this does is essentially have us separate out from a budgetary perspective completely the police from the rest of our budget so essentially what will happen during the budget process is we'll sit as a village Palmetto Bay Council like we do now and And then during that same meeting, we'll essentially adopt and approve both the millage rate and also budget for the police un

Councilwoman? All right, so a question for the Vice Mayor. Would this then be one millage rate that would appear as the sheriff's, the municipal district, sheriff's municipal district, and there would be no millage rates then for the rest of the budget of Palmetto Bay. We would finance the rest of the operations of Palmetto Bay with our other revenue sources, including sales tax, utility tax, and so on. So there would only be one millage rate, and it would be keyed to the police contract. Is that the case?

So that would actually be up to the determination of the future council. So this item before us tonight does not decide what the tax rate is or how we're going to make that split between our operations side and the police side. All this does is create that second line item. How we as a council decide to allocate that is gonna be up to the determination of next year because this cannot legally take effect and appear on someone's property tax bill until the following year. So essentially, if you wanna have a structure that you're mentioning, that's certainly a possibility where the public safety

Council Member Cody? Thank you. I've got a question for the attorney. As Ms. Gillette pointed out to us, we're going to be going, if the amendment passes on the state constitution, to a system that at some point properties are going to be revalued based upon their market value what do we do in a can right now our police department eats up more than our total millage we put in probably a couple of hundred thousand just my back of the napkin again kind of computation a couple of things one Would we then be setting the maximum amount we're going to be spending on police? And if that causes us to

Okay, my follow-up is what happens if we get into a situation like we had during the Great Recession where property values in the village dropped and you have a situation where you're being assessed on actual property values, property values drop, And the amount we collect is less than what we have been collecting before. Are we then required, because we set up the special taxing district, to say, no, we then have to go and go outside of that taxing district to make up the difference for the decrease in the value of home values? Or could we say, you know, police department, you got what you wa

Let's say we have a situation where we have a village council like this, where at one end, we probably are not going to be raising taxes, and at the other end, we're also not going to be raising taxes. We have a shortfall. Would... we be required to make that up without the input of the village council? Would that just be overridden by whatever the people on either end of this council want, and we don't get unanimous to raise that millage rate for the taxing district?

We just went through the experience this evening of setting the maximum millage rate. And then when we get to our actual budget, we're going to have to adopt the effective rate. Right? With me? Okay. Now, if we have a situation where the home values drop and we suddenly don't have enough coming in via property taxes to pay for the police department that we want, you know, it's like Rumsfeld once said, you don't necessarily go to war with the army you want or need. You go to war with the army you have so we we have a certain amount of money coming in with the millage rate that we have set it's

essentially what would happen is the tax rolls and the assessed value would go down. That would essentially actually put us in a situation where I believe the majority rate for our millage would be actually the same rate as last year because you're in a situation where your assessed valuation has gone down. The only reason why we're in a situation like this year where the rollback rate is lower than the actual rate we adopted last year is because property values went up. So I don't think that would be a situation um in reality the other side of it as well and this is the important point withou

And if I could interject, first of all, I just make comments. Obviously, I have great respect for our policing unit, sheriff's department, sorry. And we all know public safety is number one in our community. And David, thank you for, Vice President Greenwell, thank you for coming out this evening. Where I'm struggling here just a little bit, and I do respect the opinions of both our manager and our sheriff's office is I wish we would have these conversations with full-on presentations at the Committee of the Whole or during the budget hearing so that we can better understand. I can read the wo

Yes, I think we do need more information because at this point, I'm not quite sure whether we're having two millage rates or one millage rate in which the police get the part of the millage rate that is their contract. And then we adjust the rest of the village millage rate to the police millage. In other words, there needs to be more explanation. And I would also like to see a prepared projection showing the combined millage for the next five years with and without the district. So that would be helpful. And whether any other entities in Florida do this kind of thing. And what has been the ef

Yeah, two things. One, I totally agree. I'm happy to bring this to a cow. I think it's an important conversation to have. And I appreciate the willingness to engage with this on good faith. And again, I thank Sheriff Rosie for her support with this. I thank our local sheriff's unit here for working with me on this and also to our manager. So

I'm sorry to interrupt. Are you closing? Because I think Council Member Fiore.

I wanted to get to, I want to answer your question first. Yes, we'll do a CAL. Yes, I'll put something together. And yes, I will have some conversations to make that happen. The second part to Councilwoman Madsen's question about the five-year projections or rates, this does not change the process under which we adopt a millage for the combined rate at the end. So essentially the projection is going to be entirely up to the future council. This doesn't bind us to any future tax rate. This doesn't bind us to anything other than separating out our police costs with the rest of our budget. That's

Okay. Council Member Fiore, and then did I cut you off before? Well, I wanted to make a motion. Okay. Do you want to speak first?

Yeah, thank you, Madam Mayor. First of all, I haven't spoken to the police major or the PBA or the manager on any of this, so I don't want to vote on something that I fully understand. And I would say, Mr. Vice Mayor, you keep talking about the future council. Well, if it's for the future council, then why don't you bring it up for the future? Why do we need this generosity at this time? I mean, bring it up. I mean, I think it's a good idea, but I don't have enough information to make a a valid decision on it at the current time. I'm sure it's meant well. Answer his question?

Let me ask. I think you might have another question. Are you making a motion? Making a motion. Vice Mayor, go ahead and answer. Your motion's next.

So the reason why this has to be brought this year is that if we want to have this in place for next year, we have to undergo the process that our village attorney mentioned, which is get approval from the county and also work with our property appraiser and other county staff to make this actually appear. And also there's a provision under state law that says that whatever district we adopt this year cannot levy or do anything in terms of separating out that millage until the following year. So essentially what would happen is if we postpone this to next year, this won't come back until poten

Okay. Sorry. Council Member Cody. Yes, Madam Mayor. I would move that we defer this item until the regular council meeting in September. And I know that our village clerk can give us that specific date. Because I think that we have a lot of unanswered questions. And I would feel better if... rather than going back and forth. We actually have an opportunity not only to run it through a COW, but to actually have Desmond give us the numbers. So that's my motion. I'll second that.

Is the motion to go to a COW or to defer and go to a COW? Or what's the motion?

The motion is to defer it, and if it's not my item, I can't put it on the cow. But if Mark wants to put it on the cow, then that would be fine. That would give him enough time. He already indicated he would. But that way we don't have to take a vote before we get the facts and figures that we need to make an intelligent decision.

I'm in agreement. I would be comfortable with that, especially now that I'm learning it's not going to actually impact this year's budget. So we'll get a very clear presentation. We'll be able to read it. That would be now, right? Is it July? July. If you're able to put something together for next week and then September we could have the item back in front of us.

Just a question for legal. My understanding is if we adopt this by October, we're still on track to levy this and go through this process for fiscal year 27?

Thank you. I'd also like to encourage a visual presentation. I'm a visual learner, so I'd like to be able to see what's going on. All right. Yes, ma'am.

My motion is to move this to September 14th. Do we need to make a motion to put it on the Cal agenda? Was it submitted for the Cal agenda? I'm emailing the clerk right now to do that. All right. I would amend my motion to say to also add the item to our July 14th Cal agenda, and that way we've got both covered.

All right. Is that okay with you? Because you had seconded the motion prior. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Madam Clerk, call the roll on the motion, please.

And it was something that I put forward.

All right, we're going to move on. We've got 14E and 11C. Does anyone care which one goes first? I'd like to do mine first, please. Which is yours, 14E? It's the 11. 11C. 11C. Would someone move it? Is there a second? It's been seconded. by the Vice Mayor. Madam Clerk, can you please read the item?

Thank you. Next speaker. Do we have comments by form? Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Clerk, the comment by form.

Councilman Manson. All right, this ordinance came about because a resident who is Muslim, requested that a notice for a holiday, Islamic holiday called Eid al-Adad, was denied by the village. And I looked at it. I didn't agree with the denial, and I thought that we should really take this to council and discuss it and get an official village-enabled notice. policy for village communications regarding notification of religious observances. So let me start by saying, before I talk about the ordinance, let me start by saying that in Palmetto Bay, we have diverse religions. Right across the street

Thank you. Questions? Council Member Cody?

Thank you. This is a question for the attorney. Well, actually, two questions. One, we have had a law that was enacted by the legislature prohibiting any expression of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Would this ordinance be considered in derogation of that?

And the second question is, the way it's written, would we also have to give recognition to atheists and agnostics?

And so we might be including the satanic temples holidays in our greetings?

Now, does it make any difference if the religious group that's making the request is not located in Palmetto Bay?

So if, for instance, I went to the Eid celebration at the mosque, which is located on the other side of US 1, the way this is written, could they make that request of us to include their holidays in this, even though their mosque is not located within the, not the barriers, the borders of Palmetto Bay?

A quick question, and this is for the maker of the item. I know you worked with the attorney. So here's where I have some concerns. And I will say, first of all, thank you all for coming out. Appreciate having you out. I was very pleased to be able to recognize Ede through proclamation. It was probably like three months ago. I see there's a whole list of exclusions, and here's my actual concern. nothing to do with the reason you're here, just specifically to the words on the paper that I'm reading. It says exclusions, and I really feel like this is putting some kind of unnecessary weight on a

May I ask you a question about what you're saying?

Your last comment. My feeling is that we shouldn't do anything based on what is here. Is that what you just said? Yeah, my feeling is... By no notices or... Right. Everybody should be noticed.

Well, if this was a simple item that just said treat everybody equally and if a request is submitted, go ahead and place it on or treat all religions equally, I would be kind of supportive of it. You've outlined like a whole administrative process and decisions that I don't know that I want the manager having to make. I think we're creating a process that I think eventually somebody is going to sue the city and say, hey, I didn't get a report. I didn't get a written denial. I didn't this. I didn't that. And I think it's just, for me, it seems extremely complicated.

If you don't mind, I'd like to respond to that. That is my goal is to treat everybody equally so that they can, everybody can ask for a notice on their religious observance and it will be treated equally. And so I am totally willing to substitute your motion for this entire thing because that is my goal. I only set this up in this way because I worked with the attorney on it in order to come up with a structure and a policy and so on. That is my goal, is for everyone to be treated fairly and equally, and whoever asks for a notice about their religious observance to be published in Village soci

I would say bring back an item that looks like that.

I can make a motion right now to amend it.

Thank you. Okay, well, back on this item, and I understand why you're presenting because that is the next item.

Yeah, okay. Vice Mayor. Yeah, I have a comment. This is for both items, so I'll just give them all in one. My core concern is this. We literally started our meeting with a prayer. I mean, that's part of our meeting process. So to say that religion is separate from our governmental function is just antithetical to what our government is right now. And what I would also point out is our village and our government should be a reflection of our residents and the people that we serve. So I thank you for bringing this because that's what I think this is trying to do. And that's what I think we shoul

I would like to make a motion to amend, please. Okay, I'd like to make a motion to, in deference to the mayor, to delete sections E, which are exclusions, G, which are administrative procedures, and H, which are annual reports. Second.

I would say this, bring back the item, as you've discussed, rather than just removing while we're here. And it'll be supported. That's, you know, from my opinion.

Okay, well, I'm trying to satisfy... The mayor and her concerns, and now the attorney has brought up his concerns, and actually that section was from the attorney. So I would like to reframe my amendment in hopes of getting this ordinance passed and to delete G and H, G being administrative procedures and annual report is H. So that's my new amendment. Second.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Well, I don't know what to say. You see, this all could have been avoided. All we had to do was just put the one thing out there like we were supposed to, whoever makes that decision. I don't know. This could have all been avoided. And for us to sit here and listen to the hypocrisy that comes out of Tallahassee and Washington is horrible. I've got to speak from the heart here. We can't be, can't. So I'm going to support the item after this, what is it called? A motion, an amendment. And I would defer to the city attorney. The law doesn't take effect until January. So it

I was actually going to say something very similar, which is, like, if the attorney and councilman work together on this, then I'm open to supporting whatever comes out of it. And to me... whatever is in here is has to be the process. So I am grateful for it seems like there's going to be support tonight. And I'm really glad we can get over this hump as a village and reflect the values of who we are as a village. So thank you.

So what is the what is your motion as your amendment is to delete G and eight? The attorney you also mentioned Another section.

Right. The section, I'm reframing the amendment and keeping in E on the advice of the attorney.

Okay, then reframing the amendment, correct? So we delete exclusions, that's E, except for 2, number 2 under that. Is that correct? Except for number 2 under E, number 2 being line 17, page 5 of 8. on an attorney's advice.

May I ask you respectfully, is it possible that this is something you could bring back with your omissions, the stuff that you've removed or want to remove to our next council meeting, which would be in September, so we don't have to kind of slog through it?

I'd rather not. I'd rather not have this continue on. I really would not. I'd rather have it decided.

Unfortunately, I'm not going to support it then. It's super simple to sit with the attorney, go through everything, pull out the things that we've discussed this evening, and bring back the item that's clean rather than eight pages long. but that's your prerogative. I'm amending it in order to support the amendment, but I won't support the item once it's amended, but I'll support. I think there's eight pages of restrictions for the village staff here, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm not going to support that. Okay, so we're on the motion. We've removed G and H. Madam Clerk, can you read the m

Very good. That's the motion. Madam Mayor?

Yes. Just one point. Then why don't you get rid of the reports? We don't have to have staff doing any kind of reports or anything. Oh, they're gone? Okay, thank you.

I mean, if people vote for the amendment, the report's deleted. Oh, H is in there? I'm sorry. Thank you.

That's okay. All right. We're on the motion to amend the item as was just read by our village clerk. Can you call the roll on the motion?

Yes. Okay, now we're back on the item as amended. Is there anything else? Madam Clerk, call the roll.

Yes. Item passes, 3-2. Thank you all for coming out this evening. Thank you, everybody. Quick question. We had Item 14E. I guess we can... Oh, okay. All right. So we're going to bring up... Would somebody move Item 14E? Is there a second? I'll second. Madam Clerk, please read item 14A.

Thank you. Public comment? Do you have comments by form? Thank you.

It's an item on the agenda, so we're going to hear the item.

I can't go back and forth with you during public comment.

You can let us know if you support or oppose the item.

Excuse me. Excuse me. I don't know what your point of order is, but Please don't call out individual folks. Nobody's in cahoots. This is an item that's being brought by the administration.

Yeah, has any other community in Miami-Dade County or the state of Florida adopted a similar policy?

Question of the attorney. All right, I'm just mirroring what Mr. Taha was concerned about, and that is, if this resolution passes, does it negate the ordinance that the council just voted for?

Yeah, I'll just add one other thing. I mean, the reason why I asked that question is I don't see any other community having this challenge that's in front of us. I'll also point out, however your political leanings are, one of the most conservative sheriffs in all the state of Florida, Sheriff Rosie, who I think has done a great job here in Palmetto Bay with crime, But nonetheless, her personal account a couple of weeks ago even wished Happy Eid. So this is something that people across the political spectrum recognize. And I feel like we're the first and also I feel like the only community tha

Thank you. Other comments? Once again, thank you for coming out, Mr. Taha. I'm sorry if you think I'm in cahoots with the village manager. I think what I said previously was simply that I think the fairest thing to do is to eliminate religious postings and take some of the heat off of our staff. You can't call out from back there, sir. I'm trying to explain my perspective. I have received your emails. Frankly, I was a little disappointed by a couple of your emails to me. I did not know, no one reached out to me from WLRN, but I hope they do. Now, I'll be happy to explain my thought process as

No. The item fails. We heard you. The item fails 3-2. All right. With that, we're back on track for item 10-A. Would somebody move it? Is there a second?

Second. I'd also move to extend the meeting until 10-30. Okay.

Is there a second? Second. All those in favor? Aye. All right, 1030 it is. 10A, Madam Clerk, read the item, please.

Very good. Mr. Attorney, I think I'm going to turn it over to you.

Very good. Sorry for standing, but I have to move around a little bit. Okay. Questions of the village attorney?

Thank you. Were there any comments by form, Madam Clerk? It's 10A. Okay. Thank you. All right. Questions for the village attorney? Comments? Council Member Fiori.

I'm going to perk up a little there. How many meetings we got left, Mr. City Attorney? Three regular monthly meetings, thank God.

I won't be here for all these laws and all this stuff. Madam Clerk. To our esteemed Madam Clerk, could you please read back my comments, if it please the court, could you please read back my comments verbatim from the last meeting so that this entity and the other entity, which is the CRC, with the exception of one member, can for the second time understand my meaning of what I said last time that no one seemed to understand, almost like the same thing that went on.

I thought maybe you had worked it out with her prior. Okay, Councilmember Cody? No. Vice Mayor?

I remember your comments, and I'm actually inclined to agree with you and vote for you this time around.

Yeah. Do you mind explaining what you're talking about? That went right over my head.

Yeah, I mean, I'm inclined to agree with Commissioner Fiore on his comments last time. I mean, I agree with all of their items. I think we should make one or two changes. I know there's an amendment that Councilman Fiore does not want. I share that position, and I'm happy to push this through and get this process done because the CRC deserves to have finality on this. And I'm hoping with the next item that I'm sponsoring, we can get this taken care of. And we don't have to be here past 1030. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. Is there anything else on item 10A? All right, Madam Clerk.

I would just like to let the audience know, the residents watching it, what this item is. This item is rescinding the ability of the Charter Revision Commission to place items directly on the agenda. And we did pass a resolution and then we passed an ordinance to allow this because the CRC had been informed by the previous village attorney that this was their right. And then the opinion was changed with a new village attorney and they objected to that saying that they had been working under the previous instruction. So, Long story short, what this will do, we'll reverse what is in the charter.

Thank you. All right, anything else? Okay.

Yeah, real quick. I'll also just say I mean, I had conversations between the last meeting and this meeting with members of the CRC on how they want this handled. And members of the CRC intimated to me the best path forward and I am inclined to agree with them is to dispose of this lawsuit entirely dispose of any kind of legal claims related to the CRC process entirely. and just put cleanly the item that I'm bringing on the ballot, um, straight to voters. So that way you can't litigate the CRC processes, the exact same items that the CRC brought. And if we want to make one or two changes, I kno

Yes. All right, item passes 4-1. Moving on. Item 10B, would somebody move it? Move it.

Yeah, my apologies. We'll go back to that one. 14B.

Well, I'm so sorry. We were on 10A. We grouped all of the Charter Review Commission items together. The next one would be 10A. Or 14B, is that correct? Okay. Yes. Okay. 14B. Somebody moving it? Move it. I'll second so we can keep moving here.

Well, Madam Mayor, before he gets into the review, I would make a motion to divide the question. And under Robert's rules, what that does is when you have something that is easily divisible, Each item stands on its own and each item is voted on in its own. So we would be voting on proposed amendment one, then proposed amendment two, proposed amendment three, and that is my motion.

I'll second it. I just have a question. So we've got this item, then we have the vice mayor's item. Can you help with some clarification here? Because Does this particular item then put everything right on the ballot, or is now we've got this motion where we're going to go item by item?

The second question, and this is really just about process. So we go through this. Let's say we go item by item as you've just motioned. we could still hear the vice mayor's item. We could carve out, we would carve out, the only change is, if I'm understanding correctly, is the bike path language. So then what will we do? Carve out the other stuff or just make the change in this item?

yeah so just to get a little bit into the process and why I brought my own separate item and this is essentially it because of the litigation surrounding the CRC I thought it was best that the council just initiate its own item and forward that to electors that happens to be identical to the CRC and if we don't adopt this item we can take up my item it's the exact same but without the legal controversy that we have with the CRC And it's just cleanly within our powers to do this. We don't have to litigate whether or not there's this power to send it directly to voters. Um, it's just something t

Question for the Vice Mayor. So are you going to support dividing the items in your item? Okay. Okay. All right. Other comments then?

No. OK. So, the item fails 5-0. We will move on now to item 14C. Move it. Is there a second?

Thank you. Okay. Madam Clerk, can you read the item 14C?

Mr. Pastorella, I would just say you had three minutes. You could speak to each one of those items in three minutes.

Do we have any comment by form? All right. Go ahead, Vice Mayor.

Thank you. So essentially I have two quick things. One is to respect the wishes of Commissioner Fiore and the second one is I just want to add a whereas clause if the attorney is okay with it. Just for extra clarity, I'd like to just add a whereas clause saying notwithstanding the recommendations of the Charter Revision Commission, the Village Council, acting as the governing body of the Village of Palmetto Bay, chooses to forward such items to the electors of the Village of Palmetto Bay. Is that permissible, and would that be okay to do?

Yeah, and it also would be pursuant to Section 6.1 of the Village Charter and 6.03 of the County Charter. So, just add that, too.

Well, can I make a first motion to divide the question? I'll second.

Is the motion debatable? I mean, my question is to Commissioner Fiore. I think you had a challenge with one of them, which was the actual cost of reimbursement. I'm comfortable making a motion to strike that just to save time. And also, it's already 1020. I don't know if it displeases the council that I feel like it's up to the commissioner, in my view, because to be blunt, he's deciding about here by the looks of it.

I will say this. I just asked you in the last item if we could divide divide up the items which in my understanding was that we could go item by item i appreciate that you're respecting what council member fury has to say but i'm here too and i'd like to be able to weigh in on some of these as well so that's fine and look i'll support it then but my core concern too is like we if we divide the question would we have to have public comment for every single one because um or that be a separate item that's my question i don't know do we have to have do you want to have public comment for everyone

no i think you can have public comment on the on the item you guys are just dividing it for purposes of uh of your consideration okay that's fine so my first motion then is what i just said about adding the whereas clause and i'll go to the attorney for that and then i'll entertain the motion to divide the question and then we'll go from there is that okay okay so that's my motion regarding the whereas clause okay can you repeat the motion please Notwithstanding the recommendations of the CRC, the Village Council, acting in its authority as the governing body, chooses to forward such items to

Okay. Questions? Discussion? Madam Clerk, call the roll on the motion.

The item's been amended. That amendment passed by 4-1. All right. My motion to divide the question. Okay. I seconded it. Discussion? Okay. Call the roll, please.

Yes. Okay. That motion passed 5-0. All right. So how are we proceeding now? Are we going to the first item?

Okay. Well, I'm looking electronically. It's page 3 of 23. So I'm assuming. That's the ballot language.

What he's talking about is exhibit A, if I can jump in. Oh, I see. We could look at either one, you know. And it may be easier just to look at the. Yeah, the charter language, excuse me, the ballot language itself.

Do you want, we just read it, or you want to just read it out loud? This is public speakers, home address, disclosure, and written comments.

A quick question. How is this different from what we're already doing?

That part I understand, but as it relates to written comments, I'm just curious because we get the written comments, they're distributed prior to the meeting.

Okay, so now do we call the roll on each one? What are we doing?

All right. Call the roll on the first proposal.

questions anything okay well I I've got a question I think the ballot language is a bit misleading because it speaks on line 109 about the lease of any such property exceeding five years and then at the bottom it says except for leases with a term of six months or less so which Which one is it?

Any comment? I think that this is incredibly ridiculous because if we lease our property snack bar in the village Quarry Park. That has to go to a vote of the people if it has a term of six months or more. And we have to fund the cost of that election. We may not get back from the lease of something very small, what it costs us to put that election on. So I think that this is just a bad, dumb idea. And I would encourage you all to vote this one down.

I have a question for you. Would we have to have a special election every time something comes up, or would we have to wait and do it every two years?

It's okay. I don't need the information.

So to have a farmer's market, we would have to wait until a regular election and put it on the ballot for the voters to vote on?

Madam Mayor? Mm-hmm. Yeah, just, so why don't you make it, well, not you, all of us, except for leases with a term of three years or less. No, three years or more? What am I saying, Mr. Attorney?

Yeah, three years, because that would push it out to an election for four years, not two years. I think that would be better for staff. OK. Is that a motion? That's my motion.

Three years. Can I get someone to extend the meeting? OK. Is there a second? Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? OK. A councilwoman said no. OK. So you've made a motion. Is there a second? There's no second. So we're back on the ballot amendment or the charter amendment as it was originally proposed. Anything else? Yes, Vice Mayor?

Yeah, I mean, this is something that the Charter Revision Commission recommended, and I think it's fine as is, and I think it should go to voters. And this is their recommendation, and based on prior conversations publicly on this council, I support all of them. So I'm going to be supporting this as well.

Okay. Madam Clerk, call the roll. Council Member Marsha Madsen. Yes.

Madam Mayor, I move to reconsider the item. I'm going to take up your amendment, Commissioner, if it's dependent on your vote. I was on the prevailing side, so I believe I can make a motion to reconsider, correct? I'm going to move to reconsider the item. If it comes back under reconsideration, I'll vote with Commissioner Fiore on his change. Thank you.

He's making a motion to reconsider. Don't we have to do it right now on the...

Okay, so there's a motion to reconsider. Is there a second? Second. All right, there's a second discussion. I... I'm going to just throw my two cents in. I think this is extremely convoluted. I don't think even removing the six months, it says the proposed amendment requires a majority of voters' approval for any sale, conveyance, exchange, transfer, lease, or license of village property except for leases with a term of six months or less. I think, in my opinion, there's two or three items, and this is one of them, that just ties the hands of the village council, it ties the hands of the villa

Madam Mayor, a question for the attorney. So I made a motion for the three years. Is that what the reconsideration is?

I'd be able to bring back your amendment, Commissioner. Which amendment? The one with the three years.

Madam Clerk, can you... Well, that's what I... I'm sorry, Madam Mayor.

I just wanted to hear the amendment again. Yeah.

Oh, so my amendment... Thank you, Madam Mayor. So my amendment was... except for leases with a term of three years or more not three years or less because that I agree with the mayor that ties everything up okay yeah well we would need to deal with the motion to reconsider first and then you could okay if it passes then you could you could make that okay okay so there's a motion to reconsider is are you waiting for something else a second or

Mr. Attorney, just point of information, I don't see that in the code.

Excuse me, Vice Mayor, Council Member Fiore.

Yeah, thank you. As I look at this, and, okay, so let me direct this to the manager.

Not yet. So I do agree, like the pickleball court, The lease is for how long?

But that's already locked in. Yeah, we already signed that. Even if this passes or not, it doesn't matter. Right. Okay, that was my only question. So I'm going to stick with the three years.

Could you please read the item as it has been potentially amended?

Okay. All those in favor of reconsidering? Aye. Nay. Okay. We're reconsidering. Can we read the item as it has been amended? Okay.

Sales, conveyance, exchange, transfer, lease, or license a village property less than three years, do we have?

And no offense, piddly items, because it's piddly, right? Who we choose as concession would essentially, they're under the three-year mark, they would have to go to the ballot?

Give me an example of something more than three years other than pickleball.

All right. Very good. All right. Anything else on this? All right. Madam Clerk, call the roll.

This is on the amendment or the actual item? This is a vote on the amendment. Thank you.

Yes. So the item as amended moves forward. Looking at number three. No, we voted on the amendment. The vote on the item. Okay, I'm so sorry. Call the roll on the item as it has been amended.

Yes. Great. The item passes 3-2. Item 3, Mr. Attorney?

Thank you. Any changes? I'll just make a quick statement. I think, you know, given the finance conversation that we've had today, requiring the village and I guess maybe it's a question for you, Mr. Attorney, essentially, if it if it goes for sale, we are required to figure out a way to purchase it.

I think it's financially irresponsible, but that's just my opinion. Other comments?

Yes. This is something that should not be in our charter. This is a policy question. You talk about leaving it to the next council. This may not happen for four or five more councils. But I don't see the sense in handcuffing those good future people to have to try to figure this out. If it's available, and the priority is it would first be offered to the state, and if the state said no, It would then be offered to the county, and if the county says no, then it would be offered to us. But I think it's, again, it was a dumb idea when they thought of it. It's a dumb idea now, and I'm going to vot

Councilwoman? Yeah, this is a priceless, really almost priceless piece of property, one of the last, if not the last, remaining coastal properties of a large size. And I think that the village should do its best to try to acquire it when and if it does come up. And I was present at the discussion, and it's aspirational. It's like an indication, a suggestion, that the council take it seriously and try to purchase at least some part of it. If not, probably never be able to purchase all of it, but at least some part of it, perhaps for a park. So I support it. Vice Mayor?

Yeah, I support it too. I mean, I remember last time this conversation came up, a lot of people reached out to this council expressing concern about the future of this property. And I think giving voters a say in the future of that is really important. And I would also just say that having aspirational language in our charter to do well with our residents and their wishes, I don't think is dumb at all. And it's unfortunate that we're making those characterizations. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Anyone else? Okay, Madam Clerk.

That's correct. Thank you. No, just a comment, if I may. Listen, let me be very frank here. Regardless of what others out there may think, this almost passed the last time it was on the ballot. Listen, it means a lot to me, but not to me. I'm not going to be living here, but for the future of this city, Uh, new people that want to run, they won't have to raise like now 30, 40, 50, $60,000. I was out raised all three times in my run for district one. And we, you know, thank, thankful to the Lord. We were successful and others. Um, I just think it makes it easier to run. You don't have to walk t

Yeah, I told the CRC, or members of the CRC, that I'm not a fan of this. I don't think it's the best idea, but I gave them my word that I would put this forward to voters in spite of that, because I think people should have a say on this. And it's ultimately, as the Commissioner said, this came very close last time. If people want it, great. If people don't, then also even better. So... I'm going to support it. I don't like the item. I just want to put that on the record. Thank you.

Thank you. Councilwoman? I'm of two minds on this one. I think that people are very confused about whether a district councilperson actually represents that district or the whole area. I find that the residential districts are confusing for people. On the other hand, and also I think that District 3, I agree with you, Commissioner, District 3 really does need like a person on it that just represents it without having to, for the reasons you mentioned, I agree with you on that. So I also am concerned about having to redraw the lines. The district lines won't stay the same because they have to b

Thank you. Anyone else? Ditto what my colleague said. I'm actually voting just to put it on the ballot, but when the ballot comes, I'm not voting for it. I think it's important for every candidate to walk the entire village and meet with residents. If you're in one, you should be meeting with folks in District 3. Just my opinion. But Out of difference to you, my friend, I will see that the people get to have their say. Anything else? All right. Can you call the question on, call the roll, I'm sorry.

Great. Questions? Comments? Anything? Council Member Cody?

I don't think it's needed. I think the people have the ability to decide that. I mean, you do have to have a little bit of a cooling off period. Presently, I don't think we need to have eight years of that. I mean, if that went into effect, Marsha Metzen might not be able to run again. Not to worry, Steve.

That gives me hope. Let's stay focused, guys. Quick question for you.

I was just going to ask you about the date.

Well, did they select November 2nd? It doesn't matter. chose does anyone know the intent here did they choose the date before the election we don't know because there's no one here representing them councilmember Cody do you recall if they made a said well the date before the election as opposed to at the actual election day and quick question for you I'll be in office on November 2nd I'll also be in office likely on November 3rd. We'll all be in office on November 3rd because no one's sworn in until December 7th. So does that mean I can run again in two years?

Just checking. Thank you. Okay, I don't think we can make a change. I mean, I guess we can make a change if you guys want to pick the third.

I'd like to ask the attorney, does this make a difference?

Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah, I would like to make a motion to this, and I agree. I think December 7th, because it's for everybody going forward. It doesn't affect anybody currently serving or who has served.

Yeah. Then the other thing I'd like to do, Madam Mayor, I don't know. To me, I mean, I like it. I I don't know about an eight-year waiting period. I think four years is enough because we already have term limits, right? District one, you can run. You can run again for re-election, as I did. You could then run for a third term that's already in the charter, correct? Right? That's not changing anything here, correct, Mr. Attorney? That's not changing that.

Okay. And then it's not affecting the scenario. I'll use my own. Well, it wasn't a scenario. It was reality. I ran in 2010. I was successful. I served a term. I didn't run for my seat again in 2014. I ran for my seat again in 2018 based on advice from others. And we were successful, so that wouldn't matter either. I think that's been fixed, actually, here. It only applies to consecutive terms, right? We spoke about that. So I'd just like to make a motion to drop the eight years to four years. I think that's plenty of time, because I don't want to disenfranchise the electorate. I think a four-y

Okay, it's been changed to a four-year. There's a motion to, there's a second. All those in favor? Aye. Is there any discussion? Opposed. Okay, the change passed 4-1 with the dissenting vote, Councilwoman Madsen. All right, so now we're on the item as it has been amended, changed to four years. We did not change the date. Is there anything else on this? Okay, Madam Clerk, when you're ready, can you call the roll on that?

I don't know. I don't know. We changed it to four years. Four years.

Vice Mayor? I don't think it has support, but I'll just say that I think it's a fair idea, especially in light of the car allowance issue that we took up last year. And I think this is in direct response to that. And I think that if this were to go to voters, it'd probably pass with flying colors because I think people should have decisions as to compensation. And I think anything that's not an actual expense or per diem is just not... a reasonable reimbursement to take if you didn't have the expense. So I support it, but it probably doesn't have the votes. So I just want to be on record. Than

Yeah, Madam Mayor. Yes, sir. Thank you. Yeah, this was really the one item that I had a big issue with. I mean, I'm trying to get people, recruit people to run for office. And then when they're in office to stay, I mean, it's not easy up here. We're not a homeowners association. So I don't believe this should go on the ballot. and I hope others would concur. Thank you.

Thank you. Councilwoman? When we discussed this at council, I felt that this was a violation of the charter, that compensation can only be changed by the voters. So this codifies it in the charter, so I support it.

Anyone else? Madam Clerk, call the roll.

Item fails. All right, next one, number seven.

All right, it's been moved. Is there a second? Madam Mayor, it is 11 o'clock. I move that we extend to, at least according to my watch, I move we extend to 1120.

Yeah, OK, thank you. We also have several items that I'm going to make a suggestion, get moved either to a special council meeting prior to one of the other meetings, or I don't think any of them are urgent. So 11-20 it is. All those in favor of 11-20? Aye. No. You and I are no. But it's 11-20. Three people voted for 11-20. All right. Great. Is there any more discussion? I do. Okay, go ahead.

Okay, I would like to point out that... that additional language was added to the proposal going directly on the ballot that was not in what the CRC passed. So I don't know who added it. For example, on the ballot item on page 6 of 23, line 195 has the language without council oversight. But on the original changes made by the CRC and proposed, That was not there. And that is at line 756 on page 20 of 23. So someone added to what the CRC did not have. So I would like that to be an amendment.

I have a question. Did they actually put that in without council oversight? Because to me, those three words really tends to bias this, I think. It sounds like a runaway CRC. It was. It is a runaway CRC. Well, no, I doubt very much, frankly, that they put that language in there. I wasn't there, I admit.

What say you? That's what they put in there. And that's one of the reasons why I'm opposing this is I think it's just from a policy standpoint as a former government major to hand off legislative authority from the legislative body to a group of appointees and having them have the final say as to what goes on the ballot. And frankly, this charter amendment answers the question of did they have the right to include everything on the ballot? Not if they adopted something that says we recognize we don't have the right to put it on the ballot, but we want to have that right in the future. So this

Yeah, two things. One, I'm glad I don't have to argue that in court now. But number two, I would also just say I'd like to make a motion to change the word oversight to approval because I think that's more accurate because there will be oversight. There will be a council liaison overseeing the process. But I think the more accurate word is approval because that I think is the intention here. And that's actually what's in the amendment. So that's my motion.

But the council liaison, I did that. I sat in there for a year plus. I don't have a vote. I can tell them. Point of order.

There's no discussion on the amendment. It has not been seconded, so I'd like to see if there's a second before you discuss it, Mr. Cody. Thank you, Mr. Berwitzer.

Move to strike the word oversight and replace it with approval.

Would that be something that we would place further down in the resolution itself? where you have some kind of, you have to... We could do that, yes. I'm happy to make that motion. Can you put together something so that... Okay. Vice Mayor?

Yeah, my core concern is that specifically within the charter of both the village of Palmetto Bay and within the county, it's the governing body that has to propose the amendments to electors, not the village attorney's office. So my core concern is that if he has to make changes after we approve it, we're going to be in a position where technically speaking with this particular amendment, from my own perspective, that wasn't the final language that was approved by the governing body. So I'd be very weary of that. If it comes to it, I'll just withdraw my motion and not have a vote on it. I'd r

I will just say that the attorney indicated that it's not just for this one item. That if he goes back and reviews any other changes that were made and I don't think that's going to be the case. And he can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I heard. OK, so what are we doing? Are you withdrawing your motion? I guess so. OK. The motion's been withdrawn. We're back on the item. Well, we didn't vote on the motion anyway, so we're back on the original item.

Second. OK. All those in favor of the language? Aye. Indicate by saying aye. Aye. Four ayes and one nay. All right. So now. Councilmember Cody. Now we're back on the item as it has been amended. Is there anything else?

Madam Mayor, isn't this the issue we're having now?

Well, what? No, I don't want to be funny. I'm just saying, why would we? I'm not going to be here. Neither will you, Madam Mayor. Neither will Dr. Mattson. I don't know about the two gentlemen to my right. But wouldn't we be hamstringing two councils from now?

We wouldn't. We'd be resolving a problem that's going to come up again and again unless the voters decide on it.

Well, then just change the word right here, this amendment with council oversight. You don't have to say with council approval. Say with council oversight. I'll make that motion and vote for it. I mean, if it passes.

There's people in the crowd that are yelling out. I'm sorry, I don't have my hearing aids on.

With... You can... I mean, with council oversight, and then in five years, whoever's here can determine whatever that is. What is the oversight? I don't know. He's not going to be here, this guy at the end. I know that. He'll be... Okay, go on. I don't know if I'm missing.

Okay, you made a motion. I think the vice mayor seconded.

So can I get an understanding as to what the motion to amend is? You're saying change the word without to with?

Or with council oversight? Oversight. Or you can say with council approval, but I thought that... Well, this...

I'll say, again, my main concern here is that we're hamstringing future councils, two councils from now. I don't want to be the one making the decision now that manipulates the future.

Vote no. I mean, I don't want to be the one determining. I didn't want to be the one determining a lot of things, Madam Mayor. I don't want to be determining. I want us all to work together for the good of the community, for the good of society.

And we're all making decisions based on what we think is best for the community. That doesn't mean one of us is right and one of us is wrong. OK, so we have no motion then to make any changes. So we're on the item unamended. Is there anything else? Madam Clerk, can you call the roll? There was one amendment.

I'm sorry. Yes, the supervisor of election language. We vote. But we passed that. Yes. Now we're on the item as it was amended.

Yes. Item fails. All right, we're on number eight and final.

Thank you. Questions? Discussion? Yes, Vice Mayor.

Yeah, really briefly, if any of you all have questions, I worked with the sponsor on the CRC on this, so I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you.

Again, I think this is one of those things that we're putting an amorphous policy, not even a policy, but a feel-good amendment into this. It requires, it uses the word requiring, pedestrian, bicycling, and golf cart facilities unless waived by a vote of four council members and written findings that such facilities are infeasible or disproportionate. We have 125 miles of roadway in Palmetto Bay. Does this mean that we are going to have to put in bike lanes on every street and sidewalks on every street? Because sidewalks are used by pedestrians. And if we are, then we are going to have to come

Yeah, I'll just be quick to our attorney. If we don't initiate a project, will we be required to put sidewalks in on every street or buy with eminent domain right of way if we don't have a project involved on that street?

But if we do have a project on that street, would we have to do it?

Councilmember? Vice Mayor has the floor. I said it, okay. Vice Mayor has the floor.

Yeah, look, and I'll just say this. My concern is that throughout this entire process, the colleague to my left has opposed every single amendment from the CRC. I think this is one of the most important amendments that the CRC has put forward because I think it's going to save lives because safe infrastructure will save lives. And more importantly as well, A lot of the deliberation that we have as a council, I think, should come directly from the people on projects like this. And I think a lot of people, the number one issue that they have is traffic, and the number one way to get people out o

Thank you. Is it yours? Is it your, did you create it?

No, I mean, I didn't create it. I just worked with a member of the CRC on it.

Well, you had me at hello. I didn't need any more, so thank you. Okay, is there anything else on this one? All right, Madam Clerk, can you call the roll on number eight?

Okay, so that one passes. So now we have the resolution in front of us. Is there anything that you believe needs adding or?

Including where you spoke earlier about the potential for making sure that everything's legally sufficient.

Perfect. Thank you. Vice Mayor, I'd like to co-sponsor.

Thank you. I assume Commissioner Fiore gets the gavel then.

Is there anything that I need to say other than to co-sponsor it?

No, but if you're co-sponsoring the item with me and I can't take the gavel, then Commissioner Fiore has to take the gavel, doesn't he?

I don't think it matters. If you accept it, you accept it. I don't know. Here, do you want to pound this a little bit? There you go. All right. I assume you're amenable to that, right? Yes. Okay. Is there anything else? All right. What are we voting on? The whole thing? The whole thing. Okay. Okay.

Okay, so we're voting on, what are we voting on, Mr. Attorney?

Okay, we're voting on item 14C as amended. Is there any further public comment on this item? No, seeing none. Is there any questions or any comments? before we call the roll on this item 14C? None? If that's all there is? Madam Clerk? Yeah, I know what to say, Mr. Cody. I don't need to be told what to say. Yeah, I know it's getting late, but I know what to say. Call the roll, please.

Okay, thank you for that update. Could you please call the roll now? Thank you.

The item passes four to one. Congratulations to everyone on this council. This was a very difficult situation to get through. However, with a good sense of community, we got through. Thank you very much. Here you go, Madam Mayor.

I move to extend the meeting by five minutes just to discuss what to do with the remaining items.

Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thank you. All those in favor? Aye. Anyone opposed? All right. So I was going to suggest we've got, first let me tell you the items that we didn't get to, and I was going to suggest we have a mid-year town hall budget workshop on the 20th. If you guys are okay with it, I think we could get these knocked out in an hour and a half. How many items are there? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

If it's easier, I mean, I'm happy to withdraw 10B as a sponsor. Am I able to do that since it was under reconsideration, Mr. Attorney?

I guess five items then. Great, then I'll withdraw item 14D. So what are the remaining items? So now we have I'm sorry, what was the one that you withdrew? I see it, I see it. Okay, the electric bike?

Yes, and one more thing as well. I'm wondering, since we're going to have the committee of the whole workshop, prior to this meeting, would it please the council to bring this dependent special safety district to that second budget workshop? Because I also think the conversation of that district is relevant to that conversation anyways, and we'll have time during the COW to discuss it as well. So if it would please the council, I'll make that motion to change the prior deferral to that special meeting.

uh instead of the cow now so we'll have the cow okay and instead of having it hurt in september i'll hurt here at the special meeting as well i don't have a problem with that all right one thing we'll need to notice it as an action meeting though so i just want to because right now it's just a budget workshop right the so we're going to call a special council meeting got it yep at 5 30. so okay so um all right then we've got item 12. i'm so sorry All right, these are the items that are left. 10B, 11A. Madam Mayor, I withdrew 10B. Okay, you withdrew 10B. I thought it was 11D you withdrew. All r

Madam Mayor, 11B as well. You withdrew both of them? No, I wanted to add 11B. That's the dependent district that we just discussed. Mr. Attorney, do we have to make a motion to amend the deferral that we just made to the September meeting to add it to the special council meeting agenda?

Let me understand. We're calling a special council meeting. It's going to be at 530. The items that are going to be on it are You're saying 10B is not going to be on it?

I'm withdrawing 10B, but I want to add 11B. That's the special districts because this meeting will be after the Cal, which we will present.

Fine. Okay, so 11B. I'm sorry, 11A, 11B. Then when I said 11D, you said you're withdrawing that one? No, I'm keeping that. Okay, 11D. 14D. No, I'm sorry, I withdrew 14D. Scratch that. 14F and 14G.

All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? All right. Very good. Is there anything else?

Mr. Attorney, do we have to make that motion to amend that deferral?

yeah i'd like to do separately do 11b because since we had a we had a separate vote deferring it to september 14th to um to change that to um july 20th instead move it second okay it's been moved and seconded anyone else anything all those in favor all right anyone opposed okay very good so we will see each other on we'll see each other on the 14th as our Committee of the Whole, and then on the 20th, we have our special council meeting at 5.30 and our town hall.

Adjourned? Second. All those in favor? Aye.