Village Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening. I'd like to call the meeting to order. Vice Mayor Cantor, would you lead us in a moment of silence in the Pledge of Allegiance?

If we could please bow our heads for a moment of silence. If everyone would please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Madam Clerk.

Here. Are there any additions, deletions, or deferrals at this moment for the agenda?

He has been swimming in it literally for a long time.

Gotcha. Okay. I do have a question also. Just one more, which is...

Okay. All right. To the chair, two questions. One in the last sentence. At one point you stated it would be two feet higher and then almost in the same sentence you said it would be two and a half feet higher. So my first question is how much higher is this seawall going to be than the one we have now and my second question is if you are putting dirt on top of the old seawall then this dirt is not going to have to go through two seawalls to get outside is it are you putting dirt under on the old seawall as well to come up to your height or are you simply putting concrete there so as far as the

So the second question, you're going to put fill in You're going to remove the slab that's there, and you're going to put compacted fill in then in dirt from there. But as far as over the old seawall, is there also going to be dirt put there before you pour this slab for your new sidewalk? Clean compacted fill. Clean compacted fill. So then back to my first question with the picture you showed. You show that grain of sand going through two seawalls. In fact, that's not the case, is it? The dirt that's on top of that is only going to go through one, correct?

Right, and then you're going to seal that gap, I assume, at the bottom of the seawall cap against the slab? Right. Yeah, because that's the other way the dirt could get out, right? Especially with the rain and water and whatnot, yeah.

okay one question I have on the on this so you have numbers for what this plan would be but again to the to the demo part of the existing sidewalk is that a complete the whole what was it 480 it's like 898 feet of concrete and rebar we're removing So it says jackhammer, what is the, it's cutting slabs, crane? And then do, and then just take them out in big slabs? And then we have to demo that? Can we use that somewhere else as fill? It seems like a lot of fill.

So when that happens, if somebody goes down there, they're just going to see just the middle part of the existing sidewalk gone. So you're going to cut it, and obviously it's the end cap on the one side of it. It's going to be left behind on the old wall, right? There'll be a void there. I mean, between, you take this out, I know I've seen some pictures, it's like that thick of concrete, right?

Yeah, I'm almost close enough. But yeah, but it seems like a lot of, it seems like a lot of material here. I mean, it just isn't. I mean, is there an alternative to maybe just scrape like they do I-95 and then do this? I mean, instead of demoing the whole thing? Well, they grind part of it on I-95, and then they fill it back in. They don't take out the whole thing. Right.

It's to grind it down to a point where then you would just put that membrane in and then fill it back in. I mean, it just seems like a lot of aggregate to me. That's all I'm telling you. I mean, it's concrete formed. I get it with rebar and spalling, but it's pretty, I mean, when they did it, it was, they built a bridge, like you said. Now the bridge is failing. So the solution is then do an alternative to the bridge.

But we don't, until you cut it, you don't know how much that you're going to have to use. Is that correct or incorrect?

No, I'm talking about the new stuff that you're getting. You don't know how much you're getting once you cut this cap off, do you?

But that's, I mean, again, to this conversation, price then and deadline that we have on this, how do we budget for this?

Okay. Is it the same contractor as doing the wall, or is this a separate contractor? The same contractor.

Okay. To the Chair, one more question. Are we going to put back in, you said how many pilings did we take out?

Well, I'm only thinking of the future. I mean, if unfortunately this doesn't work and the same thing happens as happened the first time, which is when it did fail due to dirt loss, then if we had that system in there, it would give us something to attach to. So it seems like a great – we spent hundreds of thousands to put those pilings in when they were first put in. And now we're basically abandoning them, but I don't see why throwing them away makes any sense. I mean, I don't, they're buried. I doubt there's anything wrong with them. They're steel and concrete.

The rest would remain. Right, so the public knows the structure that made the bridge is still the bridge, and what we're doing is replacing the roadway on the bridge, to put it easily.

To the chair, Patrick, was this solution unilaterally come up by you alone, or was this a consultation of other engineers at Chenmore as well?

And Patrick, was this agreed, regardless of cost, to be the best decision for durability, best solution for durability and longevity of the new seawall, this solution that we've come up with here? Was that what was decided amongst all of those minds? Right.

So we feel that this solution is the best possible outcome that we could obtain for what we're trying to accomplish over there, correct? That is correct. Wonderful. Thank you.

Well, wait a minute now. We don't want to leave it at that. The best possible combination would be to rebuild a bridge there. That's going to last another 40 years. But I mean, that's not in our budget. That's what the problem is with that.

And with this set, it will be done in the timeline then back in November, correct?

sorry through the chair just one more thing so for obviously to build a new bridge would incur a lot more costs but my question is what is the overall difference in longevity and durability for the solution we came up with versus to build a whole new bridge patrick

Sorry, let me get to a more detailed question, I guess. What I guess I'm asking is, solution we've come out up with versus the solution of the complete rebuild are we talking about the solution we've come up with maybe only in the last 20 years and the bridge solution would last 50 years or i guess what i'm trying to get at is obviously you know because we're already spending a lot of money on this project we want it to last obviously as long as possible do we foresee with the solution we've come up with running into problems sooner than originally allotted for what we expect this new build to

There's one more. A question to that to clear it up also. In your experience being an engineer and doing the seawalls, how common is it that their bridge is built for 800 feet?

Just because this is the way we've always done it doesn't mean that it's the right way to do it. It seems like there's a lot of seawalls in Florida that don't have bridges and last more than 40 years. Is that correct?

But it went into the chair, but in fact, it did fail before 1985, which is why we ended up building the bridge in the first place, trying to prevent this from happening again.

That was a coral seawall. The one that failed was a coral seawall. When I moved here, it was coral. This one, then they gun-eyed it that, and then we're putting something in front of that, and with a membrane.

And then there's two different designs. I don't know why the Shores did what they said. The first, why we're even here, is the first 178 failed, which was the steel. And that doesn't even have the coral. And then they're saying that at this other end, when they show you pictures where they did the demo, that was actually where there was coral rock. And all that's sublimated. There's stuff missing now, even with the bridge.

So, I mean... Yeah, but the sidewalk right now is still basically level. And it didn't last that long initially, which is why they put the pilings and the railing in in the first place. They didn't do it because they didn't have anything else to do with the money. They did it to try and prevent it happening again a second time.

But they were leaving, they still, all they did was gunite the coral when they did it in 1984.

They gunited the coral, they put in the pilings, and they put in the railing. That was in 1980. But that was the second time that this had happened. But you're right, it was coral, and the first thing they tried was to gunite it. That didn't work.

Well, it was gunite and steel. I mean, the first 178 feet also has a sidewalk, too. You'd sit there and judge what's failing on it. It's spalling all over the place. It does have spalling.

Yeah, it's at 2.3 feet. You're putting the sidewalk up to the cap. It's flush. Correct. It's mirroring the same condition.

So through the chair, once again, I just want to, for the record, make it clear, the agreed-upon solution based on our funding restraints, time restraints, all the restraints, we are doing the solution that is the best possible option as agreed upon by all of the people that you consulted with for what we have to work with currently, correct? We've selected the number one best option for our current restraints, correct?

To the Chair, and you've made your point, and I agree with you, and you're correct. I want to ask you one question. If you went 100 yards from this seawall and you dug a hole in the ground, when it was high tide and low tide, would you be able to see a change in the water level in that hole? And the answer according to a Nobel Prize winner from the University of Miami is yes, if you haven't read any of those. I listened to him down in South Miami. And the thing that creates the suction is not rain or storm water, it's the movement of the tide. And if you don't think that water is going to move

I think there are two different things. One is sublimation, going up and down with... In and out. That's the title, in and out, but I mean, the moon pulls, I mean, it's It's just under everybody's piece of property. We just did Shores Estate. The guy was in scuba doing and laying down pipes. Exactly. But it doesn't come in from the canal. It comes in from the bay. It's a sponge. It goes into the bay. It comes out of the bay. We're on a sponge. It's just the aquifer. If you punch a hole in this, the aquifer comes up to Mira Lake. It's punching a hole. There's water underneath us everywhere.

There is, but especially when you're close to the bay and close to a seawall. That water...

There are two different things, though. One is the motion. You don't think that they... No, I do. I hear you. But there's two different things at play. One is actually sublimation underneath that's always there. Digging anybody's backyard. Are they coming in from the bay? Not with the tide.

It won't match the tide. It won't match the tide. You're welcome to comment.

Yeah, but through the chair, the question, the fundamental thing we're trying to get at here, which I think.

You're right. You're right. We don't, we don't have no more time.

Based on what we have to work with. What we have, we have to do it. Period. I'm saying there, for what we have to work with, there is not another solution we didn't go with. We didn't choose number two on the solution list of what we're working with. We chose the very best that we could to deal with what the reality of what we have to, to work with this. I mean, we could build a titanium block the whole way, and that would be a lot better than any of the things we're talking about. But I'm saying for what we're trying to accomplish here to open this wonderful new project and get it completed w

Okay. Esmond, did you want to vote on this? I don't have a vote, sir. I ask you if you want one. If I want to vote on this? You want the council to vote on this?

I concur. Even more than accepting the proposal that we get back to what we need to do immediately, right?

Well, the other thing with it, I think the public needs to know for serendipity. The project originally did not have – it was just going to be a sidewalk on top of the existing one. So there was a problem underlying it that we went with old data. We found new data accidentally, and now we're fixing it.

Well, it's brand new data. The day it happened, and if you went down there, it was surprise data. How's that? Because the original, from the project at the beginning, and there's a newsletter out there, the drawing that you see in the newsletter is from the Parks Master Plan. This is a different project than the Parks Master Plan. This is from the beginning was the wall was an engineering, had engineering failures, and we were to fix the wall. So they're two separate projects. It seems like it's the same thing. People have also said, one, you do the one when you did the other. That's because w

Through the Chair, I'd like to just ask, the confounding question is climate change and sea level rise, the longevity of the new wall, but roughly what would be the minimum number of years we can expect that our new wall will be viable? Because the last wall lasted 40 years.

it's the time in the meeting for public comment if you do have a public comment it's general comment right now if you have a comment on one of the items later on you could speak on it now but then you can't speak on it when we bring it up plus please state your name and your address and it's a three minute time limit

The manager was just looking for consensus.

Madam Clerk, are there just confirmation? Are there any e-commons?

Second. I have a motion to second. All those in favor, signal by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Madam Clerk? Aye.

We've done a lot of research We did some with Frank previous to him leaving I've spent a lot of time talking with Donna reviewing documents that Donna sent me We have a couple ways we can go about this or we can proceed in or not proceed. I'm going to lay out all the information for you tonight. Unfortunately, I was not able to get your handout previous, but I felt that my recap and report of where we're at would be sufficient. Um, if we have any immediate feedback, I would love to hear it from you guys. If not, and you'd like to digest it and then discuss it, discuss what our possible action

Mm-hmm. I just noticed in the, I mean, they redid the Burger King, but then in that parking lot, it seems like it's private. Obviously, it's not ours, but there's new FPL stations. Yeah. And it looks different than the ones that are by the tennis center, so they've, I haven't walked up to it to see which, what level it's at for the, I mean, because everybody just wants the, obviously, the supercharger, the faster one that they can get it.

don't know if those are superchargers or not but i do know that fpl does have new options available way better than what we currently have available so and so for the public since we're discussing it right now on public property it's just the ones by the tennis center uh basketball court the tennis center the there's three um the tennis center the the pool uh the pool, right? And the third one is back here, behind one of these buildings. Right here. So those are our three currently contracted FPL locations, yes.

I would like to hear what our current arrangement is.

That's it. So what I'm hearing, and this was kind of my initial thought anyways, is I think that we should go back to FPL first and see what, before we engage, because CityVie, Smart City, and Blink, which are the three companies that offer a non-advertising option with profit sharing, which are the three contracts that Three companies that have other contracts in Florida, which we've reviewed some of the particulars on, which kind of fit the script of what we're looking for here in Miami Shores. But I think that the first step before we try to engage in these companies would be to go back to

And the problem with that is that the fast chargers are 440 volts. And if you look at what FPNL's got in the sidewalk saying going to our street lights or et cetera, in other words, where there would be close electrical connection at road level. Mm-hmm. And that's why it's costing the money to put it in. But I wonder in hindsight, look at Biscayne Park and El Pertel. Where is the closest fast charging station to us here in the shores?

Well, that's not in our municipality, you're saying? You're saying the closest fast charging station that's obviously not in our municipality.

Oh, it's not in our municipality. No, I know. And that's the thing. I mean, what you're saying is true. This is kind of like with our bridge. We have old technology here that, you know, you can charge a car on a wall outlet, but it takes 24 hours. And so, you know, you can halfway charge that. car in 15 minutes if you've got a 440 volt right system so I'm wondering if and the other thing is what wet are we on any websites in other words as you're driving those cars and you hit the button I want charging it gives you a list of where the places are and you know how far away they are and how you

According to what I've been able to deduct so far, we don't have any profit sharing agreement with the FPNL currently. I don't know if that, I don't know if what a new contract and new technology and stuff could bring. Maybe they're under a different setup right now, but it seems to me as I was diving deeper and deeper into this, and I'm hearing what Jesse's saying about possibly expanding and bringing some new stations in that maybe could bring some foot traffic, but I think that we should first try to see what it's going to take to bring our three current stations, which I think are all at f

to charge, it's just not enough of a difference. These facilities make money. It's not a question of, you know, do they make money? They make a lot of money. And that's the reason that, like, individual businesses, barbecue houses and, you know, et cetera, build those in their parking lots because they're, you know, They're making them, but I mean, I don't know the village needs three of them. It would probably be fine with one. I just don't know if we ought to do it as a village because it's a business. Do it as a village or whether we ought to look for a private individual that's already got

Biscayne Park, I don't know where the Mayor was just talking about ones possibly at Burger King now that they're private It's brand new Within the last couple weeks Maybe I'll hop over there and see what's going on with that situation how much conversation with them about what kind of agreement they're under and But like I said, I just wanted some direction because I don't want to invest a ton of time in looking at an expansion plan with the new company if really the root is bringing our current structure up to the speed it needs to be in the first place.

How many phases there are, if it's three phases?

The three that have contracts here in Florida are Smart City. That offer no advertising component because there were a couple others too, but the ones that fit our, what I feel like our bill looks like, Smart City, City Vi, which is City V-I-E, and then Blink is the third one. Blink seems to have the most agreements in the state currently of the three, but both the other two have pockets where they seem to have been very successful with coming up with contracts too. So those three rose to the top of the heap in our current research because also, like I said, no advertising aspect I think is im

So I'm going to research the situation at Burger King and see what I can find out about whatever private enterprise is going on over there. And also I'm going to go back with Donna and reach out to FPL and see what we can figure out with them to get the latest and greatest and see – but I'm also saying too is – Let's say we bring up one last point I want to make before we move on. Let's say we bring up the three current locations to the latest and greatest. I think that there's a certain level of. patience that has to be taken with understanding even if we have the greatest there how often the

far parking lot there at the Country Club on Biscayne Boulevard next to 96th Street, and you've got all those cars coming. If you want to count Teslas one afternoon or any electric car, there are a lot. Now, is that a place where you could make money? You know, it's a business. It's a question of whether the village wants to get into that business. And the other way you're looking at it as a service to the residents that live here, that live in a condo and don't have a garage to pull the car into and have the electric available to charge it. And so, you know, that's your first question is whic

i mean i like i like the service aspect of it but i think that the village should only obviously get involved in it as a business venture if it's a business venture that makes us money so otherwise i don't think it's our responsibility at this at this moment to provide that service if it doesn't make sense for the village as well do you ever use the super charging station for tesla on fourth court no the one i well

The one I have ended up using the most just because of the length of the trip is you go down to the Keys and then you turn around to come home again. And depending on which car it is, you don't have the range, which is what everybody's afraid of. Well, again, there's a barbecue stand there and it's got eight spots. And I'll tell you what, there's usually a line. I mean, you don't just get into one of them. You've got to. And I've been there at 1 in the afternoon, 5 in the afternoon. This guy is making money. But, again, I don't know what the next closest one is. And, you know, it's a whole fie

I'm learning. I'm learning a lot about it. We're all going to learn something. All right. So I'm going to follow up with those questions. I'm going to bring us back to part two with some of that information. And then we can discuss as a council where we want to go from there and what FPL is offering and whether or not maybe one of these other options taking over makes sense, and what kind of actual money the village can make from entering in one of these agreements. Okay.

What is the actual cost of the program that you would estimate per person?

Well, you have five, and then I would assume that it's $1,000 per student.

Okay. But, I mean, to the answer of the question, it's like a fellowship program.

Okay. And you said that about 30% of? Miami Shores residents participate?

So I guess I'll start the conversation here. As we talked about last time when Miami Theater Group came, You know, we're at a crossroads right now in general where the arts and theater and music and all those great things are getting less and less funding. They're getting slashed all the time. And, you know, I think we have to be cognizant of other gifts or other donations we've distributed and allowing for still others to come down the pipeline. But, I mean, I'm definitely inclined to... in some way support this cause because you know I think that it's something that's becoming less and less

Beth, I have a question for you. You said that there was multiple locations where Miami Light Project has been in Dade County. Where else were you before you came?

And since 2023 and having Miami Shores as your address, is there an impact to your project?

And did you mention that there's some 2,000 Miami Shores Village residents, is that not what you?

So certainly that's helping the community. And then these five students, are these going to be Miami Shores residents or these are?

I'd like to say, I mean, we're all going to vote, but Neil, I think you're right on the money. What was just said, you know, the money for this type of program is drying up and disappearing. And I mean, is this something that we want to get rid of as a village? Is this something that the residents here don't want? If 2,000 of them came, I think certainly we've only got 11 in the village. It's a pretty decent percentage of people that want to... watch this and support this. So I don't know. We'll see how everybody else feels, but I think it's... Well, tonight is a discussion.

We're not voting on this? This was because when we do this, we need a resolution that's tied to this.

Well, then I'd like to add that I'd like to add two things. One, I'd like these five students to be Miami Shores residents, period. If we're going to pay for it as a village, then that's who we need to be supporting. And unfortunately, as we had to do at the last meeting, I'd cut it in half because we've had to take care of other people that are going to come. I don't know how you all feel about that.

First of all, I like the idea of making it a proclivity to Miami Shore students. I got to say, even though I'm in full support of this, too, I think that because we're probably going to have to entertain other things coming down the pipeline, and I know that colleagues have said in the past just because we've allocated $25,000 to give away doesn't mean we have to give away $25,000 and I do agree with that at the end of the day but I do feel you know like I stated earlier that this is something that I feel like every time I turn around funding for these type of things get slashed and I do feel

It used to be manager's discretion. There was money set aside in the budget, and then it switched to council, and we have a resolution for it. But I've stated from the day as a bunch is that it also gives each one of these charities an opportunity to come before the council that's elected and actually state the state of the union of where they are. And I think it's an opportunity that each one of them that comes before us, an ask is an ask. And if you don't ask, you don't get. And anybody that does not for profit. So I just, I don't want tone here to be that somebody comes here and it's not. I

Mr. Devaney, you have any thoughts on this?

Yeah, I was just wondering about The artist fees mentioned in the purpose of request for the open moment, would that be like salaries or wages?

You mentioned a little bit in the technical fellowship program some of the workforce development you connect the students to. Do you have like a broad network of different theaters across the U.S. and Miami?

Any more discussion? I had a motion and a second. I made a motion, and I think you seconded it.

Well, I think, like I said, I think the motion should obviously require the applicants to be... Five students have to be residents and 2,500.

I was going to say $2,000, but $2,500 works for me too. I'm just trying to be cognizant of other people. We are in June of this year. We've got six months left. We've already given away half the money at six months. I just want to make sure that we have money to support all of the entities at the end of the day as well.

First of all, with one vote of the council, we can change that amount, and I agree with what Jerome just said, and that is the whole purpose in doing this was to have the people come here and explain to us what they're doing and how it helps this village. It's fantastic to me what we've heard here since the people have started coming. So, you know, I think it's a great program. And if we're not going to support our charities here in this community, I mean, you know, I know Jesse said this the last time. A nonprofit and a charity are two different things.

You know, whatever, that's just me. But you need a vote.

So let's meet in the middle. My motion is to approve. 2250 with the requirement that Miami Shores students applicants are Miami Shores residents in some capacity second there's a motion in a second all those in favor signal by saying aye aye all those opposed nope Patrick aye

Thank you. We could give you more. Thank you.

Before we do that, can I just take a five-minute break? Yeah, I've got to use the restroom. Bladder bust. Is that okay?

Yes, sir. So with the minimum under – I see there's three – three class one, the third one being the minimum, I'm assuming, right?

I'm saying the third class one on all of these is the minimum amount. So, for example, if the village employee makes $50,000, let's say they make $48,000 for the year, they would still get $100,000 payout as a minimum amount.

Just class 1, though. I'm saying, like, if a general employee under the class 1 made $48,000, if they were to pass, they would get a... Under option 1, they'd get $100,000.

I have a quick question about the life insurance. So I'm looking here at the Florida statutes that define groups like the police and a fire department hypothetically as a special risk class and also that that's for like retirement pension and for chapter 185 premium tax revenue so my question would be for the life insurance essentially wouldn't we have to look at different risk tables for like it wouldn't be the same

Yeah. There are two different things in the memorandum, but it affects, I guess, the way that we frame like option four talks about bringing it in alignment with the police, like 10, 15, 20-year suggested I guess my thing would be for options three and four, we don't really know. how much the effect will be on costs in the future?

the chair though but for clarification for the life insurance portion option six that we're discussing the total annual premium is listed here that would be the cost that is a cost because insurance is sold by by

Well in your opinion will this be received by the employees of the village here as far as raising this death benefit as opposed to changing the pension is that something that would be desirable and that it provided immediate income or do you do you see that as a negative?

And then the second question, of course, the only pitfall, I think this is a great idea. Well, I have two more questions. Which of these options here would you prefer?

which is now a couple of years old. And then Elizabeth had brought up that it needed to be fair. So I would think that if we included option two, which would make it the same for all village employees, if we were going to pursue what we had brought up last council meeting, I mean, this doesn't help Olson any. by increasing this. Am I correct in that?

Okay. And so then with the proposal we had, we were, again, assuming the actuarial table and life expectancy, we were looking to give her, I think, 221,000 over her expected lifespan but if we also included in this option too it would make that same set of circumstances available to all village employees instead of just to one is that correct

I think what he's asking for, and I think just to interject here, it's when we looked at the ordinance as written, there's a gap. So there's A and B. What I think when I brought this up, it was this is basically not an early retirement because this is how it's written as early retirement, which could actually have a bigger effect on the whole village as a whole. It's more of a death benefit. When we read the ordinance for what death benefit is, the family just missed the death benefit. So changing it to a number where it's a little bit more flexible. And it's still, when you do the math with j

Just for anybody, not just early retirement as it was presented to us.

That's exactly what I'm saying. But sometimes I need somebody else to translate. Does that make sense?

uh that was b the reason i brought it up and the first one that was b if you read b okay when we read the original ordinance that what happened with the family is that our b didn't cover them this would have but it's not retroactive it's just moving forward so another council and like i said i think if we do the math here whichever number we get somebody give you this will cover 93 percent of all you know capable you know just So you know what you're doing instead of just changing a law for a law purpose, otherwise you just keep the original. But obviously the original had a gap.

But as stated before, just like if somebody leaves, it's just early retirement. It's no matter what. I mean, it's the termination date of and it's early retirement.

Through the Chair, could you clarify that the retroactive application under Option 3, it's different from Option 5's non-pension survivor settlement?

My concern with option five would be exposing us to legal liability as far as dispersing public funds without proving a public good.

So I have a question, then, if we're going to begin to consider option three. We have an employee that's 20 and we have an employee that's 50. Certainly the probability of death for those two people is not the same. How many employees do we have in the village?

the actuary because the probability of death from each one of those people is going to vary depending on how old they are.

So unfortunately, I'm not qualified to give you that number And then in addition to that we have 34 cities in miami-dade County and What do the other 33 cities do relative to this?

Through the chair, can we get legal to weigh in on the validity of option five and whether that's even a possibility to be in it?

So if we were to decide, and just a hypothetical real quick to understand what you're saying, if we were to decide to give the employee's benefactor their 6% contribution plus the 3% interest and then let's say $20,000 on top or something like that. The general fund. You don't know whether that would

Chair, according to Mrs. McCloud, the employees are interested in this insurance, which I think is a great idea. It looks to me like it's a pretty big bargain. It gives the employee or their survivor the money immediately. and considering that it's been once in 90 years and I realize that's being argued this you know I don't see why we wouldn't raise this and perhaps make the employees happy and it doesn't cost us that much money to do it it's an alternative it doesn't take care of Olson but it would sure help Any of these incidents in the future, assuming they can wait until October? Nobody e

No, I'm definitely interested. There's a discussion in budget here in budget time, right? It doesn't need to be decided tonight, but we're going to be in budget workshop. I mean, it was when we got on this council, we were brought. We changed the benefit to be what number one is, right? Correct.

But I thought we were trying to address the gap, and one way to address that gap would be to increase what we're paying from insurance. I like it.

I don't know if anyone's on this. But I think this is again when we go to budget council this is could be discussed You have to make now With your with your insurance or your broker is I mean this would take effect during Re-enrollment

on this insurance because you have to begin negotiating for that so that you have it set for October. Is that not what you said?

I think the question is whether we're thinking of having a plan that includes the police in it or whether we aren't, if that should be negotiated separately in their collective bargaining. But I think one of the things I would like to know, I guess, is how much each plan costs versus how much of the benefit it is for the general employees.

But some plans cost more and give less benefit in a way, so then they're worse plans to go with. Correct. That's exactly how it was going. So out of these eight ones, I'm most interested in the ones that give the most benefit for what they cost? Correct.

Just for public comment, I think Ms. Keeley would like to speak. Sure. I did have something written out but after all the presentation by

That's how it works. That could be why, I mean, let's say you're in finance and you're cutting papers up with scissors and the scissor dislodges and goes through your throat. I mean, is that accidental death? That is performing, you know, it was an accident that you created. That is correct.

No. He didn't die while I was working. No, he did not. Okay. That was a misunderstanding.

If applied retroactively. If applied retroactively. Through the chair. Right, right.

And also the insurance, then, perhaps, what other cities are paying as far as insurance.

Yeah, but all the things. We want to look at the death benefit, and we want to look at Olson. Those are the two things that we need to do. We've got to figure out something for her, and then we need to figure out something for everybody else, right?

so the object through the chair the objective is twofold here are we just are we just trying to figure out how we're gonna handle the Olson situation what are we sorry do we have to it's past 10 o'clock because the ordinance right now we have to make a decision are we extending this till otherwise it's we're kind of we have a rule against 10 o'clock sorry that cut you off no it's okay are we gonna vote on it or what yeah just that just to wrap this up I think just what 10 minutes, 15 minutes, or just wrap it up. I'm done. I've said the two paths that I'm interested in. They're extending it pas

Do you have consensus that you want to extend this, or do you just want to stop it right now? We did it already. We have to put it on the record.

We have an agreement that we're going to talk for 10 minutes more, and that's it. How about that? That's fine.

I agree with that. But to set the timer.

All right. So through the chair, my question, what is it we're trying to accomplish today? I think that's important to outline here. Are we trying to rectify? I thought that all of this was to rectify the Olson, figure out a way to rectify the Olson situation. If that is what we're trying to do here, then we need to do that. But if we're trying to take a look at the entire situation, the entire death benefit, then I think we've got a lot more. I mean, and I appreciate, obviously, all the time you and the manager and everybody put into this. But to me, all this now is saying is we don't have an

Right, right. I just, I don't know. And that's why my question is, what are we trying to accomplish here?

I would like to ask for the retroactive part of this, because a lot of this year and a half has been trying to do something retroactively with what's on the book is on the book. And it seems of this discussion back and forth, we're trying to solve something that might not actually even be able to be solved. But moving forward is also why we're having this discussion, was how does the village handle its benefits and compensation? We were asking for direction because we didn't have these. Unfortunately, stuff has been combined instead of We're tackling multiple things at once.

We're walking a lot of roads in my opinion right now.

Also, Mrs. McCloud has said to us I think twice now that she needs to begin negotiations now. So if we have an interest in this insurance, or I will say I certainly have an interest in it, I think it's I think the employees have already said or heard she representing them has said she is that they are interested in that and that would be beneficial and would help to address this gap we need to be think about that before our next council meeting and let's give her some direction so that we don't put her in a position where it's October and we've never come to you know we've missed the negotiati

And Jesse makes a really good point You know, we don't originally I was inclined to include the police but you know We don't really know what their bargaining process is. No one talked to the chief about what you know, you know his his take on it is, so we don't really know whether they want to be included or not included, and like I said, if we include it now, they could be losing another benefit that they could be negotiating for down the line that they may find more advantageous to them, and we certainly don't want to take that ability away from them either, and that's why I feel like we're

No, but I mean, what was done that we didn't have before us, and Mr. Walensky also said it, I mean, this is laid out for us, and there's nothing, these are it. from one through six, and that's it.

But not really even, because five is not really actually probably a legally viable option.

But you had to put five out there to say that it's not.

Oh, okay. If that's what we did here, then okay.

No, it is, because it's been a discussion for a year. So when you see something and the law is the law, okay, then you have to explore it. Otherwise, you don't know. but it now that everything is out there and it's a discussion that needed to be happen or happen yes and it's a lot and it hasn't been looked at in whatever how many years it just needs to be addressed and like you said it's many roads to it but at least we're discussing it no and I think we need to and I think that's healthy and I'm definitely inclined to explore some of these more generous options here but I think a lot more con

I don't know if there's any clarification on this, or people are looking for clarification, or are we wrapping this up?

Okay, so what is that do a summation of what the day is wants from staff? How's that?

I Want to know what the other 33 cities are doing I think we said that that that in reference to their clients look at cost as far as specially then with item 3 although I think that you know, I don't think there's consensus there I don't agree with that but as far as cost of those items if it would be possible you know that's going to require some research legally and financially for us to understand what that's going to cost the village to to do that but we certainly need that information what else do we need

And that's a biggie because this all started with Olson, and that's what we have not addressed after all of this.

But you have, just on the record again, a manager, not to put words in his mouth, but he did speak up on it, and it's also option one here. So it has been addressed. It just hasn't been voted on.

okay well an option to I thought I actually of course you all didn't agree but the pension board thought that was a fair you know a fair thing for Mrs Olson and then if you change that so that it included all employees that had that specific specific set of circumstances now you're not picking favorites and that would take care of the Olson problem so yeah

Which we have to get a clarification on.

But that was, option two was also brought up to us in 2023.

Well, but the advantage to the 30 years was the amount of money she was going to get per month then with her life expectancy.

No, there's two different things. We were just, where I just spoke up and Ms. Keeley responded back was over, when it was presented to us in 2023, it was to 30 years of service, right? Is that correct? And then what you're talking about is what the pension board switched for a death benefit. They're two different things.

But the pension board, we spoke for... 30 years instead of the early retirement at 55 because she got so much more money total from as a benefit, right? That's correct.

There was a three-year wait. for her to get a bigger amount of money.

Yes, we talked about that at the last meeting. If you multiply that out, Jesse, for the whole, her average life expectancy is 85. She ends up with a lot more total money waiting for the waiting the three years. But who knows?

I mean, maybe she wouldn't live to be 85. She turned off the live stream. Right. We're done. Oh, you haven't turned off the live stream? The meeting has come to an end. Good. By law. Good. Not by motion.