Village Council - Regular Meeting

There we are. We are live. All right. Good evening, everybody, and welcome to our special council meeting scheduled for today, Monday, July 20th, 2026. We're starting at 5.33 p.m. Madam Clerk, can you call the roll?

Thank you. And with that, I'll turn it over to Council Member Fiore for invocation.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. And if we could all bow our heads in prayer. Tonight's reading is from St. Luke, chapter 11, verse 23 to 24. Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see. For I tell you that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see and have not seen them. and to hear those things which ye hear and have not heard them. Amen.

Thank you. If I could get everybody to please stand. Mr. Kreischer, would you lead us in the pledge? Wonderful. With that, we will take requests, petitions, and public comments. We have five items on tonight's agenda, but this would be for items not on the agenda.

Thank you. Anyone else? All right, very good, very good. With that, we'll move into ordinances for first reading. Yes, I'm so sorry that you told me that right before the meeting.

Sorry, thank you. All right, we have three ordinances for first reading. The first one is item 3A. Would somebody move it? Move it. Is there a second? Madam Clerk, can you please read the item?

Thank you. Public comment? Madam Clerk, you have one.

Thank you. With that, I'll turn it over to Councilwoman Manson.

Thank you very much. Well, good evening. I guess it's evening, almost evening. Mayor and Council, this ordinance is about good financial information. It is not about eliminating fee waivers. It is not about criticizing nonprofit organizations. It is about understanding the true cost of a village program before we make policy decisions. Over the past several months, I requested and analyzed the village fee waiver records. And I appreciate the staff's work, especially Director Carmona's help in assembling that information. The data revealed several important findings. First, from February 2023 t

Thank you. At this time, we'll take questions. We'll start with Vice Mayor and just come on down. I saw your hand up as well, Council Member Cody. Go ahead, Vice Mayor.

Thank you. Looking through your exhibit on this item, it appears that staff already prepares, I guess, staff time spent on this item. I'm wondering if either the manager or the parks director can speak to, I guess, the calculation of that and what goes into that and also just overall, just to answer, this is already standard practice in terms of the calculation that we're seeing here?

So by the sounds of it, your office is already doing this calculation, and what's in front of me is what you just said in terms of the actual staff time that you just said with the $17 an hour per staffer. Correct. Got it. Thank you. That's all I have.

I beg your pardon. How about now? Yep. Oh, by the way, viva España. Okay. This question goes to the manager. Councilwoman Madsen spoke of $290,000. Is that money where we have written checks for $290,000? No, it is not. So... Let's take the gazebo in Coral Reef Park. Coral Reef Park only operates during hours when the park is open. If someone wants to use that and we do a feeble waiver for it, do we ordinarily bring on extra staff to service that feeble waiver use?

And taking a facility like Thalotta Estate, where we make it available to nonprofits, has there ever been, in your experience, an occasion where we bumped off a paying user to make room for a not-for-profit and a fee waiver.

Okay, so this $290,000 is not an out-of-pocket amount that this is costing the village, correct?

Thank you. No, okay. All right, discussion. Yes, Vice Mayor.

Yeah, I support this item. I think it's a good idea. At least from a baseline, we're already doing this work of the calculation here. So to me, if we're just gonna be able to budget what's available and essentially deduct from what's in that calculation, set a budget for it i just think that's responsible budgeting so that we have control over how much in terms of fee waivers we're giving out so i think it's a good idea the other thing i would also point out from an operations standpoint is looking at our budget from 2020 and seeing the positions that we had in parks and recreations then versu

I understand the intention of Dr. Mattson, but I think it goes, it potentially could go beyond what is, uh, what is asked here. Um, and as our, and as our, and I know you put a lot of time into this, Dr. Mattson, but as our vice mayor would say, I have a philosophical difference and really, which is this, uh, I believe that the benefit to the community always the fiscal benefit, if any, to the village. And I say this because I can go back. It was 14 years ago, October 1st of 2012, where the council I was on at the time passed this fee waiver ordinance that I sponsored unanimously, actually. An

All right. Listen, we can argue all day long or talk all day long about how a lot is used or how the fellow room is used. That's not what this one is about. This one is about is getting a handle on our expenditures. And we're in a budget crunch right now. I think this is a very appropriate thing to talk about how we really need to look at where we are spending money. The major argument that's going to be coming up in the budget workshop we're going to have is that we're putting a lot of money into things for quality of life. Well, how much money do you want to spend on that for quality of life

In fact, I had to spend a year gathering all this information. So I think it's just important for being financially accountable and transparent to be able to do this. And I'm not saying what the final disposition should be, but I think we need to know if we're a responsible village that watches our spending. So I can see I'm probably not going to get support. I don't know. The mayor hasn't given any opinion, but I do hope that it is supported. This is simply an accountability, transparency measure. We should know where our money is going. Thank you.

Thank you. I didn't make comments because I think everybody already knows where I stand. Very good. With that, Madam Clerk, can you call the roll? This is an ordinance.

Yes. Okay, thank you. The item fails to pass. 3-2 vote. Item 3B. Would somebody move that? Is there a second? Second. Madam Clerk, can you please read the item?

You have one comment by form. Very good. And then public comment.

they don't use it they have not had a problem so far let's don't create one thank you thank you no see no other public comment we'll close that and I'll turn it over to Vice Mayor Mark Marwitzer Thank You madam mayor after having conversations with both our police major and also representatives of the police benevolent Association I think it'd be best to give this item some more time to work on and also to address especially in the legal context and also in the context of the November ballot issue. So I would seek deferral to the September 14th, 2026 regular council meeting for this item. That

Okay. There is a motion. Is there a second? Discussion on the motion of moving the item to September 14th. Is that what I heard? Regular council meeting in September. Any discussion on that? All right. It's an ordinance, so why don't we call the roll on the motion, please?

Yes. The motion passes 4-1, moving it to the September 14th regular council meeting. Is there anything else that we need to do for that?

Thank you. Very good. Very good. Thank you. All right. Next item is 3C. Would someone move that? Move it. Is there a second? Second. Madam Clerk? Can you please read item 3C?

Very good. I see we have one person to speak to the item. And do you have one comment as well by form? Oh, two people.

Thank you. All right, Vice Mayor, it's all yours.

Thank you. I want to start by thanking Major Rodriguez, Village Manager Nick Marano, and also our Village Attorney John Quick for their collaborative effort on crafting this ordinance. This is an incredibly important step forward for our village because over the past year or two, I have heard repeatedly from residents who are concerned about fast-moving e-bikes or other motorized devices on our sidewalks and shared use paths. People should be able to walk through Palmetto Bay without worrying about being struck, forced off a sidewalk, or being surprised by a heavy motorized device moving past

move the red line version all right it's been moved is there a second second all those in favor anyone opposed all right thank you uh mr quick all right uh questions for the vice mayor uh council member cody thank you um you spoke of training costs or training what's the cost of that going to be for the village

defer to our village manager but my understanding is it would be pretty minimal for example in pinecrest at the moment they're maybe having about once or twice a month a training session within their city hall and if the police are willing and available to do that training i think it's just part of our general programming and i also foresee this being available at the different events that we have across the village of palmetto bay i would agree with that okay other questions

First of all, I think really pedestrians are endangered in this city and I wish we would build more sidewalks, frankly. However, I think it's a good idea to have some kind of legislation regarding these mobility devices because I've seen too many wild and crazy drivers of those devices and I'd like to see them be trained, have some education about it, how dangerous it is for pedestrians and for themselves. A question that I have is, well, I do agree with Mr. Kreischer about enforcement. I see that as the biggest problem, frankly. And so I would like to know who, do you have any idea who the fi

Yeah, so two things. The first, in terms of enforcement, and to address something that one of our residents mentioned in terms of the visual difference, there's actually throttle on Class 2 and Class 3 e-bikes, which is what this ordinance targets. So on a regular just electric e-bike, that gives you a little bit of pedal assist. You won't even see the throttle. So that's going to be the visual differentiation. In terms of your second question as to who pays, I would defer to our village attorney on that because I'm not fully familiar. And on the enforcement methodology, I'm also happy to defe

Okay, because the ordinance calls for the enforcement officers are a police officer and also a community service aide. I don't think we have any community service aides. And also code compliance officers. So I think that that would go, if a code compliance officer gave a citation, that would go to the village, right? And if a police officer gave the citation, that would go to where citations go, which is to the county and some to Palmetto Bay, correct?

Okay. Okay. Manager, do you know the exact numbers?

And also a question is, does this include insurance that the parent, let's say, has to have insurance on the vehicle or on the mobility device?

So I don't think we can regulate that. I'll defer to our village attorney. But my understanding is that because under state law, these are not classified as typical motor vehicles, unless it's one of those higher powered, essentially e-motor bikes that you see, those would fall under the same classification as like a regular motorcycle. But for class two and class three, they are under a special designation where the requirements are a little bit different and insurance is not a requirement, which is part of why I wanted to have an acknowledgement. Because for example, if your kid's on an e-bi

Thank you. Any other questions for the major? All right. Thanks, major. All right. Any other discussion? Council Member Fiore.

Yeah, thank you, Madam Mayor. Yeah, I think well-intentioned, Mr. Vice Mayor, but I'm going to agree with a couple of the speakers. It's really not enforceable. I really think this is a parenting slash common sense item, for lack of a better word. But I will tell you this. This is something I have heard some of the complaints, and it may be incumbent upon this council to at least maybe ask the manager through some type of directive just to put something on our website to make, I don't know how you would say it, I'd leave it up to everybody here, but just to ensure that parents tell their child

Yeah, in response to that, I'm wondering if the concern is, if the enforcement's the concern, would you be comfortable approving something that's similar to what's in front of you here, except instead of, for example, a fine, we essentially do education as the penalty, especially in this context of, obviously, we're trying to figure out where the money would go. I think just education in general is a more productive way of handling this problem. So I would defer to you on that, but I think that would be a reasonable way of addressing this issue.

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Vice Mayor. Yeah, good point, but I just think it's too much government involvement, for lack of a better word, on the whole thing, and it's not something I'd want to put into law. However, again, I think you have brought up a valid concern, a safety issue, and how we can educate the public at a minimal thing, I would think, would just be putting something on our website. I really don't want our police... already have, you know, there's enough to do without that. I know they would have to respond if there was, uh, God forbid some, some incident, but that's as far as I woul

Do you have one question? Where will these education sessions take place?

So Pinecrest is currently doing them at village hall, um, at their village hall. And then also the idea as well as I know that the sheriff's office has a tense, the parks record parks and recreation department has a tense at most of our events. So I feel like doing some outreach there would be a good idea. And I also know historically speaking, I remember seeing some like helmet giveaways in the past as well. So maybe that can be part of that program as well.

So that's something that would be determined by them. You don't stipulate in here.

Yeah, it's administratively flexible. Yeah, my preference with ordinances is to leave it as administratively flexible as possible.

So from my perspective, And I travel around the community quite a bit. I think there's a very large number of e-bikes, even in my own neighborhood. And I'm talking little people, little kids, elementary school kids riding e-bikes. We have issues in our parks as well, periodically. I don't know that we've had any recent issue, but I know in the past I've reached out to the manager. We've got kids doing donuts and you know, in the grass, and then residents will do outreach. It's like anything else, unless you're trained and understand the dangers, which, frankly, in a lot of cases, I would imagi

And I'm sure it's probably already happening. We are doing some kind of enforcement as it relates to... I know we do golf cart enforcement all the time. I'm assuming we do electric bike enforcement.

Thank you. Thank you. Uh, vice mayor, I'm going to support the item, uh, tonight and likely on second reading. The only thing I would just say, and just, you know, putting it to the record, I'll be gone in four or five months. I would maybe for second reading, I don't want to call it a pilot because I think it's an important initiative, but maybe for second reading, we can add some kind of language that will come back, uh, six months from now, seven months from now, whatever you and the manager and the major come up with, and then you all revisit it, maybe the manager and major give some kind

So in responding to that, Mr. Attorney, I believe we can put a sunset clause in the ordinance. I'm happy to put, let's just call it December 31st, 2027. be the sunset if that would be appropriate because that way we have the whole year of 2026 to assess this and then the council can come back next next year and evaluate the effectiveness of the program and make changes as they see fit so is that something that you'd be open to madam mayor i i don't know i mean sunset seems severe right to me i'm just saying you know i don't know if i'm going to be following it in 2027.

but I'm gonna leave it to you and council member Cody to do that and of course the major and manager to do the follow up. I feel like saying sunset is harsh, I'm not asking you to sunset it, I'm saying would you put in something at some point to say on such and such in the month of whatever, six, eight months from now, I'll be gone, don't worry, I won't be pining on it, just that you'll revisit it and say, hey, the major says, You probably want to make these tweaks. The attorney says, hey, we might want to look at this a little bit differently, just to hear something. I don't want you to sunse

Yes, sir. Yeah, Madam Mayor. I usually don't chime in, but 100 days to chime. Just a suggestion, Mr. Vice Mayor. Perhaps you want to bring this back as a resolution. as far as it concerns the educational component at the September meeting, and I will support it. By that I mean we could, I think as the mayor said, there could be a seminar at Coral Reef Park. The police could pass out the brochures or whatever. Maybe we could do that once every few months, every three months, something, just an idea. But if you bring it back as a resolution like that, I would definitely support it in September.

Thank you. I think sunsetting would not be a bad idea because the state of Florida, at least back in the 80s, when I worked with the legislature, we had an entire committee that was chaired by Bill Sadowski where various parts of the Florida Code were... equipped with sunset dates, and it was up to the various legislative committees to take up before the expiration of that to see whether they wanted to keep it intact or not. If Mark wants to make a motion to add that sunset language, I'll second it.

Yes, I think this is a very important piece of legislation. I think we really do need to have some regulation and enforcement on these vehicles. I think they're dangerous. And the major thinks it's a good idea. The manager thinks it's a good idea. It's a good idea. These are the two people who are responsible for it. So I don't think it needs any tweaking in terms of sunsetting. I think that it will have training, as the commissioner mentioned. I think there will be training. I think the police will do that. They will hold sessions for training. So I think it's good as it is. And thank you for

Is there language out there? I haven't heard of this, but is there language where we can revisit in the December regular council meeting of 2027?

I'll make a motion to add that to the ordinance, which is in the December regular council meeting of 2027, the administration shall make a report as to the trainings provided and enforcement and all other relevant information related to this ordinance. So that's my motion.

Second. Okay. And there's a motion and it's been seconded. Any discussion on the motion? Okay. I'm sorry. Ordinance. Madam Clerk, can you call the roll on the motion that's just been made?

Yes. The motion passes 3-2. So now we're back on the item as amended. And Commander, I think you're good. Yeah. Thanks. Anything else on this particular item? Do you want to make closing remarks? Okay. Wow. Look at this. Tonight we heard quit when ahead, and if the manager thinks it's good, it's good. So I'm going to remember that through the budget workshop. I'm just kidding. That was great. All right. Madam Clerk, when you're ready, if you could call the roll on the item as it has been amended.

Yes. The item passes 3-2. Thank you. All right. We'll move into resolutions. We've got two, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Are you doing a withdrawal of item B? I've already withdrawn it. Okay. I just want to make sure because I still see it.

Very good. So we only have one resolution then. Item 4A. Would somebody move it? Move. Is there a second? Second. Okay. Madam Clerk, can you please read the item?

Thank you. All right. I'm going to go ahead and close public comment. I'll turn it over to Councilwoman Matson.

All right. This resolution is for enhanced transparency and fiscal accountability for legal services and litigation expenditures. This is another item that I worked on quite a while. I wanted to bring it because this is one of the main drivers of our budget deficit coming up in our budget workshop. And I think that we need to have more or we need to have more transparent reporting so that people really know what's going on with our litigation expenses. The purpose of this resolution is not to interfere with the village attorney or litigation strategy. is to provide the council and the public w

Thank you. Questions? Council Member Cody? Thank you. This is for the manager.

I seem to recall that when we passed our current fiscal year budget, there was a decision made to not budget for litigation expenses. Is my memory correct? Correct. And so is that one of the reasons why the apparent number between what we set aside for the village attorney at about $300,000 and the amount that we spent total village attorney plus litigation expenses was so much greater. That is correct. So it was not that we were not aware that we would be having litigation expenses. It's just that a decision was made to move it off the books. Is that correct?

And for the village attorney, in the report that you provide for us at each regular council meeting, you give us a breakdown of what various expenses are generally for your services as... village attorney and also expenses related to other attorneys at your firm who have worked on items correct correct all of my bills are available and some might be redacted for if they're in litigation but they're all available and they're all public records but you also in those bills will reference um expenses with regard to uh cases that we have pending or matters correct

And that's just a pass-through? Correct, yes. You don't charge a markup on that?

I know a few firms that used to put a little bit of a markup.

All right. And all of that information is included in the report that you provide with us as part of our regular council agenda packet, correct?

So if we have an active... litigation matter, even under this resolution, would we have to redact that information in order to preserve our legal status regardless?

And so the idea that this resolution would give us complete transparency is not something practically that we're going to be able to do simply because we have to protect the legal position of the village, correct?

You're welcome. Are there other questions?

Sure, and then the attorney has a question. Okay. You go ahead.

Yes, currently on the manager's reportable checks, the... expenses regarding various litigation like Lexcom are reported. So it's not exactly a secret. What I'm, I mean it is reported and they're in litigation so that part of your argument is not true. However, what I'm looking for is a comprehensive overview because these are individual items that you can't keep track of in terms of how the money is accumulating. And that's the important thing is people need to know how much these things are costing. And really it's mystery unless you follow it every month. And even then it's hard to follow.

Does either the village manager's office or the village attorney's office have a, I feel like in front of us is all of the different cases that we have and also description of the hours billed, et cetera. I'm wondering, do we already track by case the expenditures that we have?

So it's already being tracked by case and it's already public records requestable, correct? Correct.

Of course, and do you make the determination when the public records request comes in, or is it on a... Like, as you're giving us the invoices, for example, I believe I saw in one of your attorney's reports, like, it would probably give, like, a more vague description as to what the actual work was, but, like, I'm wondering, like, what the process is for that.

And I guess to the sponsors, the intent here to essentially like have a report during our meeting where it says, like, for example, Steve Cody versus Mark Merwitzer. I don't know which one it would be because there's multiple of those, but it'll list that case and then it'll say expenditures and then so on and so forth. Like in, for example, we're in a slip and fall case right now and would show the expenditures there. is that the intent to include in the manager's report, like, just that overall line of, like, here's what was spent per case, and is that something you'd be open to? Because, li

Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for, is something that is transparent, and something that people don't have to spend hours digging for and maybe not getting the right information. I mean, it's just putting it out there for the public to see. That's all.

I mean, so just as a cleanup then, instead of saying no attorney-client privilege information shall be disclosed, I would just add another sentence saying only public records, only information subject to public records requests may be disclosed as an addition to your point, just so that essentially if it's public records, We're publishing it automatically as part of our agenda, and if it's not, it's not, and that way we don't have to worry about mental impressions or anything else.

Well, I already have in the resolution on page 203, line 13, no attorney-client privilege information shall be disclosed.

Exactly. It's already in there. Yeah, exactly. I just want to add one more thing. It just has to be public records requestable. That's all. All public records requestable information shall be disclosed.

Okay. I don't see the problem with that.

and i guess the last thing and just to reiterate this wouldn't create like i guess any administrative hassle because it's already being tracked by case and i'm wondering instead of showing all the um invoices as well um would it be possible to just show like for example slip and fall case i don't remember like the person who trips somewhere on one of our sidewalks x dollars steve cody versus mark morowitz or x dollars so on and so forth would that be possible

I'll wait to hear that then. Thank you. Great. I'm going to turn it over to you, sir.

Well, Obviously, I don't want your legal mind to be made available to people who are suing us. And if your concern is the budget, anything about budget, I'm certainly willing to delete on page 1 of 3, line 40, and page 2 of 3, lines 1 and 2, which mention budgets. And I'm certainly willing to do that. That was not my intention whatsoever. As I recall, I either ran this by you or by your associate. I really don't remember at this point because I was putting other things out there to you and you were out of town. But I wish I would have heard this before because I hate to bring something to coun

It was just a review for... All right, so my understanding of this is sending something for legal sufficiency, but that doesn't mean it can't be changed, and there can't be negotiation. So... That's what I'm talking about. I wouldn't bring something to this council if I knew that you were going to object to it. I really wouldn't. I mean, that's not a good idea, right? Okay. So I would like to amend it. Is that acceptable to you then, to amend it by eliminating page one of three, line 40, page two of three, line one and two, that reference budget?

It's better. Okay, so it's better, so. I would like to make that amendment.

Okay, discussion or questions on the amendment? Go ahead, Vice Mayor.

Yeah, I just think, I mean, What I was getting at earlier is I think it would just be easier to just report the total litigation expenditures, not just from the month and fiscal year to date, but total from when the case was first brought on to us or served to us to date so that we can see the totals. And also, yes, the year to date would be nice as well. And then just have that included as part of the manager's report. And that would just make it very clear if someone wants to find that information, like how much did we spend on a... trip and fall, or how much do we spend on something else, w

Question for him? Okay. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. Because right now in the manager's checkbook, items are detailed in terms of litigation expenses, but they're detailed in such a way that there's no way for the public to have the overall view of what's going on. So I think you're talking about essentially what we're doing now, except adding an overall annual or fiscal year to date.

Is that what you're asking? Yes, and just make it really simple. We already do this work. We already have it available. Instead of having a member of the public have to essentially crunch up the numbers on Excel or whatever else they use, as part of the manager's report, we'll show the year to date and also the total expenditures on a case-by-case basis. And that's all we're adding to the report, which is what I'm hoping for as well. So I'll support the amendment.

Okay, did you propose the amendment? Well, we have an amendment, so I guess we can incorporate that into the amendment that I already made for the budget.

I think we're going to need some clarity on what it is.

All right, and also... I want to incorporate the suggestion of the Vice Mayor. Can you read that back?

Essentially be striking the entire resolution except for line 39 on page 1 of 3, and then also at the same time adding the words and total litigation cost to line 1 as well that you have there. So essentially what we're doing with this item is to direct the manager to go ahead and publish a total for litigation across the board on a case-by-case basis, and then that will be part of the report as well.

And the overall litigation cost for the case. Yes.

Yes. Isn't what the vice mayor is suggesting is actually a motion to amend the motion? And wouldn't that require a separate, once Marsha's motion was made, would require a motion to amend the motion?

Thank you. All right, so we're back on the motion as it has been amended. Anything else? Are there questions? Okay, this is a resolution. All those in favor, this is just the motion, but all those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Aye. Okay, so now the item is amended. And we're back on the item as it has been amended. Is there anything else? Anything else?

I think that this is getting now to With the amendment, it's getting, I think, to a resolution that I hope satisfies the attorney and also gets to the gist of what I'm looking for, which is transparency for the public so that they don't have to spend hours and hours trying to figure out what the litigation costs are and legal costs are. So I hope you'll support it, everybody. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anything else? All right, Madam Clerk, why don't you call the roll on it?

Okay, the item fails 3-2. Seeing none, okay, there's a motion to adjourn. All those in favor? Aye. Okay. We need five minutes to queue up. Is that right? Yep. Okay. Five minutes. So take a break.