City Council - Regular Meeting

It is now six o'clock and I will call the meeting to order. Clerk, please take the roll call.

Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Now we have a time for public comments, excluding new business and public hearings with a three-minute time limit. Clerk, did anyone call in or email?

is there anywhere in the audience that wishes to speak okay seeing none i'll move on over you

Is there anyone else that wishes to speak? Okay. We'll move on to the approval of the agenda.

I'd like to make a motion to amend the agenda by moving, establishing a youth program in the city of DuPont to the next meeting, September 8th.

Okay. It's been moved and seconded. We'll have a discussion now. Do you want to address that on discussion?

Okay. Any other comments from council members?

Yeah, I just have one more. So I also thought that we have a really full agenda tonight. And so I think in order for us to really do our due diligence, it would be best to move it to the next meeting so that we've got time to think about things and prepare. So I'm in favor of this. I want to add that. But I think it would be better to move it.

Any other comments? Okay. I'll call for the vote on that request to amend that agenda item. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Oppose? Well, now we can entertain a motion to approve the agenda as amended.

I'll make a motion to approve the agenda. I'll make a motion to approve the agenda as amended.

Second. It's been seconded. Any further discussion?

I had a quick question. It'll still be a study session, right? Oh, yeah. Great. I don't know much about it, so I'll look forward to that. Thank you.

Any other discussion? Okay. I'll call for the vote. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Oppose? Okay. The approval of the agenda as amended is passed. We'll move on to the next agenda item, which is 6.1, which is volunteer liability training. Director Kearney, do you want to introduce your guests here to talk about this?

I had a question. So what do we have right now? Because we have volunteers like 4th of July, events, activities. Remember we did the great picture of Robin chopping down things on our parks looking great. So obviously we have volunteers. So it would be nice maybe moving forward to have what do we have now Cause it's not prevented us from having volunteers. We have them and I've volunteered. My husband's son had volunteered. So I guess like kind of why would we need more just kind of the back of your head, right? Cause clearly we have a lot of volunteers in DuPont. So whatever we have, I'd like

Go ahead and leave your mic. Go ahead and leave it on.

Okay. We have a park appreciation day where people all go out and work. Is that not part of public works job as well? Are we running, are we crossing a line on that day, that public, you know, day?

Speaking of children, I was waiting for a good time. I know for schools, you get fingerprinted to be a volunteer in school. So are you all going to speak about what if someone was brought in in a volunteer capacity and harmed a child or? did something of that nature. Will that be part of what you discuss? Yes, there is a slide on background checks.

So regarding the coordination, some volunteers just do it by themselves. I have seen in our city, there are people who just go out with the weed eater and just go on the exit and clean the exit or pick up trash and stuff. and they call them they are doing for city and they don't really work with any of the city staff. They don't tell us and just do it. So is that how do we manage that as a risk? When you say exit is like the I-5 exit. Yeah. Some people go up on the exit and they pick up the Yeah, they pick up all the bottles and the trash and yeah, they clean the right and which is really great.

Um, but they don't tell they don't talk to city. I mean, and then we see the pictures on the Facebook, I clean this and I clean that and I'm like, Okay, So now when you're talking about coordination, suppose if somebody goes out in the parks and just starts put out on the Facebook and say, hey, okay, let's clean this park and 20 people shows up and city has no idea or they are not informing the city. Neither they are taking the consent of the city. Then how does it work?

So here is the follow-up question. So this is what you just explained on my question is more of a risk management to me as a city. But they don't inform the city at all, and they are just doing it. So if we come to know somebody is doing it and putting on a social media, are we going to, as a city, just go and stop them doing it and say, you're not supposed to do it? Or you must coordinate with city? That's where I am kind of... We need to have that guideline, or we should know what city should know and the council should know.

When you talk about training, can that be online nowadays? What we do with volunteers, they go online, they fill it out. They say they've read and watched the short little video on how to volunteer in a kid's classroom, blah, blah, blah. And they have to sign that they've seen it. So it doesn't mean that we have to free up someone from parks or public works to stand out there and watch someone put things in a dumpster. It could be very streamlined in terms of being online.

And before you go, earlier in your presentation, I heard the things that maybe kind of would be very careful is if you have to do a task as a volunteer and you're given protective equipment, kind of not so great, but yet Here, you're actually saying we would provide the, I mean, we had during COVID and all that. So it seems like kind of a mixed message. Is that true? It's a true gray line, right? Very gray.

Does a city get to determine what lets someone volunteer and what doesn't based on a criminal background check? Is it like a set protocol? I mean, I know in school districts, you have anything not coming. So because it sounds like we talk to the person, we interview them. I'm like, if there's a red flag, do we have the ability to say no?

So what is considered as a group? What amount of people, like 3, 5, 10, is it considered as a group or more than one person is a group? And another question is, Sorry, I forgot my question. Go ahead and answer it. I'll answer the first one. Yeah.

So does those groups has to be a registered nonprofit or for-profit or it can be anybody just, I can say, Hey, I have five people going in as a group and this is what we're going to do. Right.

Sorry for the last slide, I wanted to ask this question. So, um, like me and other, uh, you know, our council member went to the AWC conferences. So we drive, uh, we drove our city vehicle. So how does that work? You give an example of say, you know, personal vehicle, then the personal comes first insurance and then comes in. So, um, what I'm hearing is it's better to drive the city vehicle while we are going on a city business.

We'll have people sign a waiver. You're not allowed.

How many volunteer related incidents have we had in DuPont in the last 10 years? Five years, two years, right? Don't we think that's relevant information for this conversation?

I would like to expand on that question, similar question. How many cities has actually seen this kind of claims and that also with the coordination and without coordination?

Can I follow up on that? So here's where I'm confused because I'm not with the one that Robin did, but I think there was a year or two before that. We, three of my family members went down and did some like cleanup of a park kind of stuff, right? Bag of garbage. I do not remember filling out a form. at all. So we might have a policy, but are we, I'm just being really blunt. This seems great for liability. No one wants to put people liable. But you're saying that we do have this process, but as a volunteer, I've never, When you volunteer for 4th of July, do you fill out anything? You know what

We might have the documents, but we're not implementing them.

Okay, so what this is is to take policy, make it better, because I have volunteered on stuff, and I've never filled out anything ever.

So this is kind of like new in terms of like, what are you starting to talk about? Kind of.

Go back up. Improving. It sounds like to me, it's ground. It's kind of like starting from the ground up in many ways. I think we're talking waivers and filling out things and signing things and doing trainings. Okay.

I think we have a policy and procedure in place as I'm hearing Susan's question and your answer. So it's just awareness. I think we need to build that. Hey, we have a Yeah, a city can make people aware that, yes, you can volunteer, but this is what you need to do. And I think that might solve a lot of- Almost like a flow chart would help too.

i think one one thing that would help i think some cities have is a volunteer coordinator that tracks all this stuff uh and that's something we just should discuss for the future we have uh you know we have a police volunteers one time and parks and rec or other things we don't have a central type of process with a volunteer coordinator

Yes. I have a question. I'm coordinating right now a volunteer program at the museum. And so I need to know city-wide because the museum is, and all of its contents are city property, then we would, go through the process of the city volunteer program. We already know we're doing the background check on people, but as far as the rest of a policy and what to do, we would need to go through the city directly and make that part of it.

Because part of that program is going to involve training by city staff. to our volunteers so that's going to you know that's part of the the coordination that's going to have to take place it'll also um fall under other volunteers to work with them but yeah the the city employee would have to do some of the training involved

Right. And then lastly, we do use the Key Club has been working with Parks and Rec a lot for like our our puzzle competitions and things like that. And they do come in. And I'm pretty sure through the Key Club, they have the records and the parent permission slip. But I don't know that we as a city have that you might want to check with Amy to see if she's getting that from Key Club.

This fall, Key Club from the school, correct? That's that would usually fall under the school would have their own piece of that as well. their own volunteer program to allow kids to go serve the community.

Correct, but the city needs to have the copy of the parental, right? Am I right? The city should have a copy of the parental release allowing them to do that, right?

will do yeah okay just just making sure oh yes oh yeah this would be more for you yeah so i never even made it to lake city yeah well it would be less practice right now thank you guys okay next bye

Next, we have item 6.2, which is our fire utility fee. And Chief Gilley is going to be on the seat now and give us a presentation.

Mr. Mayor, would it be OK? I just want to recognize one of our DuPont's finest. We have one of our law enforcement officers here. Thank you for being here. Just so you know, when you're here, we want to make sure that people know that. And you guys are the best. So yeah, and I'm not biased at all. Thank you.

Next slide, please. Just a general question. When you say St. Pete's, Madigan, all these different hospitals, how do you determine where you go? Is it on the severity trauma center, Mary Bridge for children? Is it just that simple? Because those are different places to go. I'm just curious. It's a quick decision I would make.

They're all dispatched out of Tacoma, correct?

Quick question from the last slide. What are the reasons for some of those huge spikes? That's- So cardiologist has to explain those spikes.

No, but actually that explains that some of those days, how busy you are and some of the days you are, majority of the days are not like that. So I see in the entire year, there's a one day or... one spike going up. I don't want to say one day, but it's only a few days where the spikes are very, very high.

When is Affinity opening for residents this fall? So what are we doing to prepare for those additional calls? Because I think you'll be there every day.

Sorry, just a quick question. Yes, sir. What is your average time for transport with the 1.1?

It's just a general number, because what I'm thinking is that you have at least one transport per day and we have four people working and there's two people has to transport, then they are out of the town for two hours, three hours. That's my thought process. So the second set of the people are ready, the fire engine and the ambulance is ready, but there is a gap of two hours of having the second call to take. And that's why I ask you, is it an hour or is it two hours? I think that will help us quite a bit when you give us the next time report.

I have a couple of questions When they are gone, the ambulance is gone and we have another call. Who do we call who comes?

So no other fire department, EMS, or, you know, they would have an ambulance to come our way and a mutual thing? Or is it just a private ambulance that we call?

Okay, one thing, on some of those calls too, going into a potentially, not just taking care of someone, but surrounding that could be some issues of safety for one of your firefighters, do we have our DuPont police go? Because calls nowadays can be drug-related, people aren't in their right minds. So how does that work if you did have one firefighter? Would we kind of want police to go with them in that? I mean, how does that work? Or do we just send the one person?

A question. How, if you're talking about one firefighter responding to a call, I know that you and Chief Assistant Chief Creekmore have city vehicles. So how often are you responding to those calls after hours to assist if you only have one person available?

Not necessarily during the day, but like if you are on call because you're taking city vehicles home so that you can respond to calls, how often do you and Assistant Chief Creekmore actually use the vehicles to come in and respond to calls?

So you're telling me that 12 firefighters make $439,000? Is that what I'm seeing?

If you've got 12 firefighters, I mean, we actually have 13 firefighters, including the rover. That salary is that for the year?

But you should know, I would think, how many firefighters we need to make this whole. To me, that's the money that we're looking for is so that we can make sure that we've got four people on at all time. So there's got to be a number associated with that. Do we need three more firefighters? Do we need to hire two? And it's just an estimate. I mean, yeah.

I can say previous studies that were done came back with 16 total. So you've got five per shift because there's three shifts, and then you have a rover position. So ideally, based on our population and probably call volume, and that's without knowing this affinity situation because my mother lived at affinity. They were there every day when it was fully open. So I think the call volume will go up significantly. But I would say just based on previous studies, if you're looking for a guess, I'm thinking 16.

Is that what we have that last day? I'll ask Libby and Mike. How many do we have planned on that?

and our levy will lapse we almost got in that timeline you might remember that whole discussion i just don't think the city will pass a levy for fire ems services and i would hate to put the fire department through that again it was awful it's a tough one i cried it was awful and i i think the utility tax is really our best option and you know if it's two or three i think that is Really what I'm hoping to see at some point is to bring on additional staffing, because I do know that there is short staffing. The Rover does help, but if you have five per shift, I think that would be ideal. That co

It was in 2015, I think was when we tried to do that.

It was a lot of money. But it was, yeah. And it is very expensive. That's why I just don't think that citizens here will vote for any tax increase just based on history alone. Okay.

I had a question. You talked about a consultant. Is there someone that could look and get, like Beth was saying, more specifics? Of course, I'm sure that comes with a cost, but I'm sure there's someone out there that has done this work and can bring us back, not perfection, but something kind of close to it. So I'm interested in what that could look like. But I agree with Sean. I don't think a citizen thing is the way to go. and initially where I'm sitting right now. I just want everyone to know.

This to me is public safety. This is why we're here. This is why we're elected. It costs the same either way because it costs about 50 grand to put it on the ballot, and it costs about 40, 50 grand to have a consultant come in. I think utility tax is our best bet. If you're a betting person, I would go in that direction.

I have a question. So you mentioned that if we were to collect too much money, what were you going to do with it? My question is, are we in that year? Do we have to spend that money only in that year or can we bank it? and only use it for that, but use it in additional years in the future or additional time? Is it restricted to the year that we collect it or the following year?

No, I understand that. But somewhere in the RCW, it must say, and I haven't read it because I'm going to go home and read it later, but I just need to know if it says in there restricts the time that you have to use it. I understand.

I mean, you said it, so I was like, okay.

So we are talking about hiring more people. But when it comes to the fire and police, I mean, we just cannot have people sitting there, right? We need equipment also. So that would be another question. Do we have enough equipment? Say, if you go from 13 to 16, then those three firefighters has or the ems people need another ambulance or another fire engine or what what do we need with that we we do have seats for that uh and i i wouldn't worry about trying to fill those seats because there are we don't need any additional equipments

If I can interrupt real quick, it does say the legislative authority must allocate available emergency medical service levy funds in an amount proportionate to the percentage of the ambulance service costs to the total combined operating costs for emergency medical services and ambulance services toward the total costs necessary to regulate, operate, and maintain the ambulance utility. Must allocate all revenues received through direct billing to the individual user of the ambulance service to the demand-related costs under subsection. The total revenue generated by the rates and charges shall

Would we be looking for firefighter paramedics for these positions if we were to expand? Or firefighters? Firefighter EMT or firefighter paramedics for these positions?

And what would be the estimated FTE budget amount for a firefighter, like including benefits and all encompassing? It used to be a hundred grand, like 10 plus years ago when I first was on council, but I think now it's probably closer to 140.

It would probably be ballpark also for paramedic or paramedics get paid a little more.

So quickly, if we go back to that slide, every single bullet point has some kind of a price tag on it. And that's something we don't know. And so even if you say, how much to charge monthly okay ten dollars then how much how many years how much do we need and does it satisfy even if we charge ten dollars are or are we supposed to charge that for how long how many years so so many things every bullet point needs some kind of uh numbers associated with it before we can think of all these bullet points because these are the half

we'll make sure we take a look at those outside of that any further questions thoughts concerns is this your last slide you said it is i think so carrie because i thought we had asked to address the ambulance transport fees if we are charging for those when you transport a patient i know we bill insurance but if insurance doesn't pay are we in turn billing the patients and if so How much of it actually gets paid? How much of it gets written off? I was under the impression that we don't currently charge if the person is a resident of DuPont and insurance does not pay. Do we charge them?

It was supposed to be covered tonight. Did we misunderstand that?

okay that was supposed to be part of the workshop tonight was the potential income that we could receive if we start charging for ambulance transport we don't currently charge as my understanding because uh residents of dupont are taxpayers however we have the lowest property taxes what closer to the ems levy well i don't think so i think it's it it's because we have the lowest property taxes in the county i think still but because of that and because we haven't been able to get a tax increase it's i'm of the opinion that we should start charging for ambulance transport to help cover the costs

Well, most insurances do pay if people have insurance.

I don't, but some of them don't. So that's what I had asked to find out was how much is not billed and how much is unpaid and how much could we potentially be bringing in in income? How much are we losing in income by not charging for that ambulance transport for a resident? Our property taxes aren't high enough to not charge for that, in my opinion.

Was there a misunderstanding about what I had wanted to be in this workshop?

I'm going to just go ahead. Sorry, just a quick question. But before we get to the consultant, is there a way our city staff can put it together, some kind of database that this is how much like every bullet point we were talking about?

It would be good educational material to have either way, even if we decide not to do a utility tax. Or utility fee for this, I think that the data would be helpful for future budgeting for if we decide to do a tax increase, if we are increasing other fees. I think either way, it's a huge benefit to us to move forward with that.

next september 8th agenda we'll see how quickly we can get it on so okay perfect okay can i just figure out that i'm the stickler for this when we say we'll see how soon and i know that you can't just turn around but can we at least say by this time because Things happen, people get busy, but we'll think about it or see when, I just, I'm sorry, that does not work for me. I wanna know like by the end of, steam is reasonable.

Reasonable, okay, that's different than, and I'm not saying we wouldn't, but I am a deadline person. By the end of September, it will be on the agenda.

Okay. I just deadlines, deadlines matter.

I just want to ask, can we have the, those demographics added to the RFP that we talked about, you know, like a multifamily, single family warehouse, all of those in the RFP when we go out.

Thank you, Chief. Mayor, should we take a quick break here? We've got one more. Yes, we do. One more topic, but 10 minutes. Yeah, let's break. Yeah. Okay.

My body's not going to stay here, right?

Yeah. okay i think is this on am i on you hear me yeah is it i'm not is this on yeah well i think everybody's back so we can uh get started here i want to remind everybody we had a very short meeting last time this is the payback okay our next uh Our next item is about street sidewalk funding. And I guess Gus is gonna start us off here and we have some other folks who'll chip in. So go ahead, Gus.

okay we're going to go to the back page and anyone can ask any questions uh if you want to stop me here so a quick clarifying question on this spreadsheet these are the areas that absolutely need repair or this is an optional list like i'd love to have these seven items by the bay table but i'm gonna walk away with three okay you know what i'm saying so yes i understand papa bear baby bear so so each of these segments yeah that are shown on this list

So like McNeil and Ridgeview at the end is on here. Yes. And then you, it's the whole Ridgeview walk. Cause I, I walked that frequently long walk.

On this spreadsheet, you see a greater one inch or three inch or whatever.

Is this using the sidewalk sucker or is this a budget amount based on not using it?

When they identified these places for the hazards, were these painted? Like spray painted people?

You saw the recent email that came through from a citizen, right? And it wasn't painted.

Can you explain what the bold lettering pieces are? The Wilmington, McNeil, McNeil-Thompson, Thompson-Haskell? Because you come over here to the sidewalk replacement, it's $330, but then it doesn't do anything.

A clarifying question again. So you're saying for that one repair, it's $34,000? Yes. Okay. I'm definitely asking this question. Wow. Wait, seven repairs? isn't it seven repairs yeah seven defects times 20 feet and you said the 20 feet you thought it was 10 20 all of that that's the grand total here okay this list you're giving us guess i'm going to assume it's very comprehensive are we starting to think about all of this being done or do you know you get is this going to be prioritized like because i walk everywhere in fact i fell recently on the city property um is it going to be like these

Yeah, this is everything. You want us to be aware. And then down the line, there'll be some discussion about prioritizing and so forth.

Thank you. So we're just really at the beginning.

Just one clarifying question. Linear feed. So what is the... We are talking length right now. What is the width of it?

I've got a few. So regarding cost estimates, so some of them, if it's about an inch, that could be a fixture that is just fill in with concrete and slant it so that you're not having to remove a slab. It's just a fill because it's a minor grade.

Gus, before we've talked about the possibility on those particular areas of taking the sidewalks out all together and putting some gravel in or some such thing.

And this may not be just asking, it may be a super popular question, but as someone with scars on my left leg having fallen on the city sidewalk highlighted here, at what point, though, do we kind of have some personal responsibility? Like, I go out walking, I saw it, but I just, I'm clumsy, I took a dive, bloody, you name it. I, you know. I'm just saying like if we can't make every sidewalk perfect and I know as someone who walks Beth wide spikes all I walk everywhere it's not a place here I haven't walked and I know be careful there be careful there be careful there I just feel like at some

Some people feel like that and other people want to make a claim, so.

No, I understand. And somewhere between the sweet spot, but I know as a walker, I'm always looking ahead. I feel there's some level of responsibility. Like I'm a driver. Someone cuts in front of me. Well, I got to make sure that I'm aware of that. I don't know. I just had to say that some of this makes me just really.

Well, I'm just a big account of, as you know, Mike, I'm big on accountability. My accountability for myself.

Okay, and I just, because this is official, I just want to be on the record. I'm not saying not do anything. I think you restated what I said, but I want to be crystal clear. Somewhere between painting and fixing is where I think we focus, right? You have to do something. I'm not saying don't do anything, but I also know we can't fix every little thing in our system in our system because usually you're right it's always going to be a problem somewhere so i just want to be really clear i'm not anti this and some of you have seen the damage i've done to my own left leg but at some point i just f

it might be multi-year or whatever and start implementing it by just doing that that reduces our liability good intentions yeah right right so i have a one question and one comment the quick question is that as we know the history predicts the future how long this sidewalks lasted So if we fix that right now, how long are we looking at? In the future, we don't have to fix it. No, you always have to fix it.

So one quick comment what I had. So personally, I also looked into... So in front of our houses, it's our personal liability and personal property. It's not the city property. so just last week just let everybody know last week i had somebody come out to see how much it's gonna cost me so 10 by 10 section he quoted like fifteen hundred dollars if i am looking at uh what's up here at is three thousand three hundred at uh three three thirty per one linear feet by 10 feet. And then you add another 45% on top, which I added is 1500. So $4,800, which is not bad to be honest with you, with the servi

And you said we could do that once a year?

So the REIT money goes to the general fund. Do we have like An increase in our REIT money from Affinity that we have, we can afford to do this first because it's part of our budget, obviously. So do we have this above and beyond our budget to pay for?

Yeah, I know how it works. I'm curious, is it because of affinity? Do we have extra money coming in, new REIT money, and use this money? it's not unexpected, we knew it was coming, but do we have new money coming in that is not included in our budget forecast that we can use for these repairs?

We had the work done on Center drive could we do the sidewalks on Center drive in the area where we did you know plan for a for B, could we do that, could it be included in that.

So just a quick comment, but I think the REIT money looks pretty good. But if we are looking at the last slide of increasing $40 or $50 on the card app, already we are paying so much money on the card apps. And as soon as you put that extra $50, it's going to be a big...

And one add-on to that is that – if we did have a reliable every year, $20 on the car tabs or whatever it is, it raises what a hundred thousand a year, right? Right. But for every 50,000, you can, you can borrow a million. So with, with a hundred thousand that you could, you could have a million dollars because you'd be able to service the debt with the car tab fee.

And that's councilmatic, so we don't have to go anywhere to get the money.

would actually be less than if we ran a street and uh sidewalk levy so that you would pay less couldn't we also use stormwater retention fund monies for sidewalks too not not not all of it but but some to get us started i mean i think that's a reasonable use doing a

But, but I would, if we're just talking about a minimal amount, a hundred thousand dollars, cause I think we've got, I don't know, four and a half million, 5 million in our stormwater fund that, that grows. Um, so rather than doing a car tab for a hundred thousand dollars a year, just maybe a hundred thousand from the stormwater fund, because I know we built in some contingencies for, for some of those projects and just, I'm just talking out loud.

And a previous me, we covered all those projects.

I recall that. I also recall how, like, where's the cutoff then on AMI? Oh, sorry. Yeah. We talked about how hard that is to like, then where is the cutoff? You set it. And then if you're a hundred over, then it doesn't apply. I mean, those are some kind of dicey things. And I think sometimes if I remember Barb correctly, there was how really accurate is AMI? Like, how does that get reported? And I don't know, but there were definitely remember the conversation. Yeah. It was a lot of.

It's been moved and seconded. Discussion? Call for the vote. Call.

All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. Opposed?

OK, so I do have one more question and comment on it that I don't know what percentage of the sidewalks in our entire city is owned by city and percentage is owned by the private owners. And the question is that, yes, we can fix the sidewalks for the city. What's going to happen with that? Suppose there's a 70 30 ratio. Who's going to take care of the 70% of the other sidewalks? We are definitely having challenges. So are we going to, how we let citizens know that, hey, this is your property and you're going to fix this sidewalk. We are not going to fix it. Or are we going to fix it? So certai

Okay, so one more thing I have to say that we are talking about the non-compliant part of the citizens, but we also need to talk about the compliance part of the citizens. So say we send out the notice that, hey, you need to fix the sidewalk and the citizens say, okay, I'm going to fix my sidewalk by myself. I don't want millions of dollars of levy. Great. So do we require the permit from the city? What is the permit cost? So suppose a $1,500 fix can cost $600 of the city permit. That doesn't make sense also. How quick is the process of getting the city permits? Who is going to oversee what th

Yeah, and that's easily done to waive the fee. You know, we could also take the fee out altogether.

So and if we are going to agree, then sooner the better. That's what I can say, because if we are going to start repairing the sidewalks, the citizens will ask, oh, or they will think that a city is fixing all sidewalks. They don't realize everybody is not as informed and not watching the four hour hour discussion on the studies. So, yeah.

Yeah, so I think we need to make sure that if we're going to act on this, then we need to act at the same time for the other sidewalks issues also for the private properties. So making sure that if I want to fix my sidewalks, I'm not going to be charged 30% fees to apply for the fixing the sidewalk.

I concur. maybe we can wrap that all up in with, well, do a new policy or look at the old policy and see if we can make some tweaks about the AMI, about the permit fees.

could ask a Gus question. When we're talking about people fixing their own sidewalks, would there be some level of quality control there? Because I could envision someone fixing their sidewalk with all best of intentions, but maybe they thought they went to the lowest bidder and they thought it was going to work, but it actually gets worse or it impacts other parts. So what are your thoughts about making sure people do that?

It has to be fixed to code and they have to

But then again, what Shauna said, that's one of the things that Barb talked about was that we didn't have the funds to go ahead and fix the sidewalks. When we had this discussion before, she said we did not have the funding upfront to begin with. So, you know, we can say, Gus, go do it, but we don't have the money to pay. Yeah.

And also we have to be mindful of it that we should so far have understood that governing government here versus the privately doing the business, right? So the cost is almost three times to 10 times sometimes. So if we just say, okay, go ahead and fix my sidewalk and put a lien on my property, i don't think anybody will agree not including all of us sitting on the table saying that okay charge me 10 times and send me the bill or put a lien on my property so i don't think that's an option but we should give more option to the citizens in their hand and say okay follow this you know guidelines

Can we rent the sidewalk sucker? Oh, yeah. Well, I don't know. There's probably a liability with that.

It doesn't matter. I mean, yeah, we can lift the chunk of concrete, cut the roof, put the concrete back. I'm happy with that.

people running over their own feet with it. No big deal. Yeah.

Final comment for me is this, this was excellent information. I think that spreadsheet was amazing and doing the color coding on the map. So thank you.

Although really good. I'll just say it would have been the perfect time to spray paint everything when they were doing that. I'm just saying, but it's okay.

Okay. We've got more information to gather and we'll have more discussions on this. But right now, I'll entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. So moved. Second? Any discussion? I'll call for the vote. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Very good. Next is the mayor's comments. I don't have any more. We have any council comments tonight? I know it's been long, but you want to go first? Okay.

i was just going to say i read the the press release that the city put out today regarding the medians and addressing that maybe we might not have the right plants there back in 2013 when the city had a budget crisis and they let over 100 trees die in the medians because they turned off the water to save money which was a very bad idea also incidentally the same year that we were awarded the tree city award but When we replanted everything, we did a lot of research for the right trees and the right foliage. And it's all native plants that are in those medians now because we did the research 10

Yeah, I mean, it was there was a lot of research put into that. And it was, it was very well planned. So I, I don't think that we could do anything different in those mediums. But we need to take proper care of it and maybe replant some of the same same native plants, but it was called knick knick is the name of the plant that they put in there because it's native to the area. So I just wanted to bring that up. And second, I am going to the Pierce County LTAC grant meeting tomorrow they're doing the grant reviews for the year and our community center grant is up so i will be there to answer qu

Any other comments, questions? I don't see any other business. I think we're before 1030, so it's time to adjourn. Thank you.