City Commission - workshop

Mauricio? OK. All right. Good afternoon, everyone. It is 1.31, calling the meeting to order.

All right. I just wanted to make a few announcements before we begin. The first is the acoustics in this room are phenomenal, which means that we hear your conversations. So if you're going to have a conversation, please take it outside. We literally hear everything, sometimes to the very detail. So it's very distracting, but also I don't think you want us to hear your conversations. And we now have public speaking. If you can explain it, Mauricio, and then we'll give people time to sign up if they wanted to.

All right. So the agenda's in the back. If anyone wanted to speak, here's your opportunity to sign up. Okay. All right, Mauricio, go ahead. I know there's a change, and then...

All right. And we have a very full agenda, a lot of items. So I just want to remind my colleagues that we want to try to get through it. And we have a rule that we end at 4.30. So given the amount of items we have, do I have consensus from the very beginning that we'll go to 5.30? Does anyone have any objection to it? No? All right. OK. Perfect. So I'll remind you that each item is 30 minutes. Go ahead.

Can we get a picture before you all walk away?

So Leah, should we stay up here or go down? Because there's, for the picture.

Pablo, stay up? Okay. So you guys get, yes, all right. All right, I think it is good. Are we centered? Are we centered? Much, yeah. Very nice. OK, Mauricio?

Okay, so anyone over the age of 55 and older, please come up.

Please, it would be a nice picture. You guys know who you are. Anybody that would like to take a photo, come on up. Come on, come on, come on. And if you're part of the program but you're not 55, you can also come up.

So I'm up here again. Okay. Whatever. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you, everyone. I think this only represents maybe 10%, if not less, of the seniors that participate.

Maybe next year. Bingo. OK. You're welcome to stay for the rest of the agenda if you would like. Is it still there? Is the food still outside? OK. Thank you. All right. Our next item, Mauricio, for a?

OK. Commissioner? Yes. I want to start with a question to the city manager. How do we usually set these priorities?

OK, well, so let's talk about the process a little bit. Last year, we set our legislative priorities. And really, what they were at the very beginning were the Florida legal cities platform, which are defend home rule, condominium reform, protect our local business tax, et cetera. So we supported all those positions, but they are really defensive. And we shared them with more than 400 other municipalities. So last year, we didn't ask for one single dollar to Tallahassee, nothing. So I want to be ahead of the curve, and I'm bringing this item so we can update our process. And we have real prior

No, no problem. We can have it maybe for later on. So that's the point, just to make sure that we are going to be requesting from Tallahassee money for what is our priorities, especially for the big contracts that we assume we're going to be having during the following year, and to make sure that that contract with the lobbies, either the one that we have now, or any other one that we're going to have does not expire or gets terminated without informing us. And we need to make sure that we have, like I said, representation. And we are asking for things specifically for the city of Sonny Hills

It was between 60 and 70, yeah. OK. Thank you. Anybody else have something?

Are you done, Commissioner? Yeah. All right. Did you want to say something, Mr. City Manager?

No, thank you. And that's great. But still, the point is that we didn't ask for the first time any money to Tallahassee. And I find out when our state representative called me, because he needed those projects to negotiate with other representatives. So when I find out, it was too late. The window was closed. And we were never made aware that we were not even making any appropriation requests. So that decision should be a decision of the commission and not a decision that the staff takes on its own, like it happened.

For the purposes of clarification, I know that we discussed this a lot before. But if we can just have a very, very short summary of what normally happens when the representative or a senator calls asking for our priorities and why we didn't request anything this year. If I can ask the deputy manager. This past year, sorry.

So if we have outstanding amounts, does that mean we can't ask for more money?

What I understand in speaking to the lobbyists and the office there is you have to be willing to fund something at least 50%, and it has to be in the works. It's always a match, yes. Can you just explain what that means, please, to the public?

Last year, when we had this $400,000 possible grant for the Center Island project, at that time, you had in consideration for the injection wells, correct?

Right, they weren't ready, and they were failed plans to begin with.

So regarding priorities, I think capital expenditures for sure, specifically the Central Island drainage project and the community center. And aside from that, i wanted to see if we could perhaps be ready in case the new property tax bills the homestead bill passes in november because i don't know if the state's going to have any appropriations available for any activities and programs that right now are being funded by the city with taxpayer money because obviously with that new bill we're going to be restricted to seven let's say primary categories like law enforcement and different things,

One of the things that I've tried to push forward is for us to be more engaged in the legislative process just as a commission. I think generally that was just not part of our culture. We just let the Florida League do it, or we would just let the lobbyists do it for us. And there really wasn't a lot of discussion. And little by little, that was changing. So we do now have, in terms of the legislative piece, that's largely up to us. And it's tricky because of the timing. And we only meet sometimes because we only meet once a month. And the session is only so long. Sometimes the timing is very

But I- Then there's a submission deadline.

No, just in terms of the process, I think having better relationships with the legislative people in the Florida League. I don't have as much as that kind of communication with the county legal cities, but I think that's something else that we could, you know, nurture those relationships, or maybe they already exist. I just don't happen to have them. And I have been, you know, as you know, trying to present the, I bring it to you, then we talk about it. But, you know, going forward, I mean, I would imagine, I mean, that's going to be up to the commission for you guys to, like, be on top of it.

OK. Commissioner Stevenson, when does the session start? Do you have a timetable of when these priorities need to be decided?

They're going back after the elections. And that's apparently, they don't have the dates just yet.

OK, because I think we need the calendar in order to make sure that we don't miss anything. Absolutely. And to Commissioner Lama's point, that item is going to decide a lot of what the priorities may be. They may be very, very different. So OK, good.

And if we have any suggestions for bills, there is a definite date for submissions. So we need to be aware of those dates as well. OK.

May I add something, too? Also, we need to start thinking about lobbying at a federal level. We might not have many projects, but we do have a beach. It needs, obviously, beach erosion mitigation, which falls under the US Army Corps of Engineers. So I think that our next step would be at a federal level as well.

OK. Well, I actually have spoken with Susan's assistant, Susan Simpson's assistant. And we have something in the works regarding federal funding.

OK. All right. Thank you. Next item is yours, Commissioner Stuyvesant.

OK, so about this, we only have one workshop to discuss the actual budget. And the whole time, we were just talking about the SIP, because it was very large, all the projects in there. So we haven't had the time to actually discuss the budget after it was printed and given to us. So I'm going to request a special meeting, workshop, whatever you want to call it, so we can go through the budget. Like I said, we have not gone through it just yet. However, right now, I just want to have the time to request some more information about the debt. Because when we had that workshop, I was asking a few

Okay, Mr. Sure, please, Mr. City Manager, and if you can just elaborate on the process as well. I know we talked about it before, but since we have people in the audience.

OK. Mr. City Attorney, if you can answer the other question, please.

OK. And just for clarification, Mr. City Manager, you said the bond is out of the budget? OK. Are there any discussion or comments from the commission?

Yeah. So basically, from the proposed budget, I can deduct $175 million.

OK, so. Commissioner Stevenson, I just want to let someone else speak if they want to regarding, no?

I like what I heard. No, I like what I heard.

No, so basically I have a discussion item here that has to do with the bond and, you know, the lion's share of where that bond is going to be dedicated to, which is the community center. So I'll discuss afterwards when we get to my item, or I could discuss it now since it's related.

No, let's wait to your item so that Commissioner Stewart can finish what she was saying.

It's connected to it, so I have no problem if he wants to jump his item in here because, like I said, my question continues to be the same. The proposed budget was $348 million, so I'm going to round it to $350 million. If we are not going to be issuing any bond and we don't have that debt issue that we had before, page 813, but nobody else has their book here. So right now, if we did that from 350, 175, that's what I say. We're slashing the proposed budget in half. And I'm very happy with that. So meaning, so right now, our proposed budget is going to be in the realm of $175 million, right?

I want a very simple answer. What is the amount of the budget right now as we see it, as you have it right now?

OK. Thank you, Tiffany. Thank you very much. You're welcome. To my point that we do need a workshop or a meeting or a special meeting, which I'm going to formally ask for it, to have this discussion. A budget that is not even ready, how can we be the next time to have in front of us to vote yes or no? We can have both yes or no event. Right now, something that we don't have, it hasn't been built yet. So I see, I know that the process is very fluid, and that's a good thing. So by we're going to, if the number one of our TASK AS A COMMISSION IS TO APPROVE THE BUDGET, WE CANNOT JUST BLINDLY GO AN

I think it's appropriate for me to jump in at this point. Sure, go ahead. And so basically, the... that portion of the budget is composed, I mean, the general obligation bond, or let's backtrack. That amount is comprised of the Central Island Drainage Project, which is about give or take 30 million, plus the community center. When it comes to community center, and that's why I put it there as part of my discussion items, is that I think we need to take a step back take a look at some of the examples that staff had put in there. Because what I see from there is that you see, for instance, Doral

Well, my only comment is that whatever is decided, it goes through us. So if we wanted the bond, it would go through us. Even if it were presented and we don't want it, then we take it off. It's not the city manager's office that's trying to suck up all the money. They recommend, and we accept or reject. So it's on us. It's not the way it's been presented in certain chats that it's the office that's trying to push money in or out of the budget. It's up to us, and that's why the conversations are useful.

OK. Because we don't normally have so many people in the audience, and I really appreciate that you all stayed, I just want to clarify and add to what the vice mayor was saying. When we approve the budget, we approve the budget wholly. And then those items are throughout the year brought back to us. So if anything changes, we can vote things down or up, or we've amended the budget, added things, taken things away. So it's not, like Commissioner Stevenson said, it's fluid. I want to be very cognizant of the time, so I want to give Commissioner Joseph some time if you have some comments.

Mr. City Manager, if I can please, and again, I know that we've talked about this before, but if I can get additional clarification on what normally happens and why we have the schedule that we do from now until the budget meeting and how are those dates determined?

the budget is set okay thank you go ahead yes so I would like to say that last year I through negotiations got the millage rate down to 1.7 afterwards it was written in memos and agendas and wherever that I had caused a calamity within the city regarding the budget, which never came to fruition. And now we happen to be lowering the military even less. And no one is talking about what a disaster it is. So I just think that's quite ludicrous.

Commissioner Susan? Yeah, I'm going to bring the 4F, because it's part of the same discussion. It's the Office of the Inspector General. That was my number one priority for the budget.

Wait, wait, wait. I don't want to jump to the next item. No, if we finish, then we'll go to the next item, which is 4D.

I'll just chime in since Jerry is clearly talking about me. I still disagree. I think it was short-sighted to do it last year. I think it's short-sighted to do it this year, lowering the millage, given last year was the possibility, and this year is the real possible. It's even more possible because This amendment is going to be on the ballot. So lowering the millage when we're looking at possibly losing all this possible revenue if this amendment goes through, I frankly don't understand it. So it was a bad idea last year. It's a bad idea this year, in my humble opinion. Obviously, you guys di

Thank you. All right. No? All right. Next item, 4D.

OK. OK. And this one is going to start also with a question. So what is it that it is? I heard rumors that something's going to be changing with the way we are managing the rentals for Gateway. So is anything that you guys can share with us right now?

Mr. City Manager, is there a change to the Gateway rental policy?

Okay. Okay. So I'll continue. So how we got to the system that we have right now? In 2022, there was a competitive bidding and only one person or one company was the bidder. And then we gave them a contract to basically manage the events in Gateway Park. Just as a... For reference, that part, overall, it costs around $40 million. And we give the control of the events to a private company. So that private company, we did a contract with them in 2022. We did a renewal, I'm sorry, an amendment, first amendment we signed in 2024. In 2024, the contract changed. And now, it was for two years. In Aug

All right. Either the deputy manager or the manager, if you can please clarify, just top line, how this scheme is set up. What portion do we get versus? the contractor?

So approximately, I know you don't have it in front of you, but off the top of your head, how much is the rental for a resident? So the room, it all depends. Well, the ballpark for the room.

And we got 70% of that, or we get 70% of the rental of the space?

OK. So the cost for the food, the third party gets 100%.

Right. And look, when I was first elected, I brought this up to you because I did not like this contract at all. very similar reasons as Commissioner Stevenson said, because I thought that we could probably do a better job. And it's sort of been something that I've also wanted to bring up. Again, ballpark. How much would it cost us if we have someone like that on staff?

OK. And do you know off the top of your head how much we make off of that space? Or have made? I do not. OK. All right, so I think we can get that information based on the request from Commissioner Stubison. Did you want to add something, Commissioner Joseph?

Oh, anybody else? No. No? Go ahead. OK, so like I said, the contractor keeps 100% of the catering, the flowers, the decor, the entertainment of every event. So as an example, and probably it will be good if you guys can share those examples with us with detail. So the maximum that they can charge, if it's not a resident, if I'm not mistaken, is $4,800. I believe it's the maximum that they can. So of a $40,000 contract, if somebody pays $5,000, then the private company is getting over $35,000 from that simple contract. We have over 300 employees in the city, and we have continuously are making

So I have a question. The $40,000, that's revenue. That's not profit, right? That's the cost of the event, yeah. The price that, who paid? The person that threw the party that wanted to, okay. So what is the profit to the event planner? Okay, so don't say that they made $40,000. That is revenue. That is sales.

That's what I'm trying to say. So they need to, that person that is the event planner will have to pay for the food. So I just want to clarify that point because the way you presented that, you said they made $40,000. They charged $40,000 and then they have to pay for expenses. So I just want that to be clear so people don't get...

confused yeah right and some of those expenses again for the purpose of the public is the there's a requirement to clean the the restroom so that's a salary there's a requirement to have uh off-duty police officers again those are not those are hard costs um that we would not necessarily or not necessarily we would definitely not make any money off of okay uh vice mayor did you wanna all right uh mr city manager

Who is the company we have now? Who owns the bid right now?

I don't know them. From what I've seen, I've been to one or two of the events. I look like they did a good job.

I'm not opposed to bidding it out. It's always a good idea. And it could end up being them again. But everyone else, what is your opinion?

I know that the complaints that I've heard were generally people felt that they should get it for free. They felt like, well, why do we even have to pay for the space? And that has been the biggest complaint. Because to Commissioner Lama's point, the food, those things are not profit. And I don't think we're in a position to allow anyone to use it for free. Because even at the heavily discounted resident cost, so any damage, meaning like the carpet or wear and tear, I mean, that's included in that cost, correct?

But the cost is not just we like to charge people. No, no, no, no.

And also this provider has to carry liability insurance and all of that, right? Yes.

But whoever rents it, they have to get an insurance of a million on their name, in our name as well. So the insurance, anyway, whoever's going to rent it has to have paid for the insurance. So we had the same company since 2022. And this company was the only bidder. So we never had like a real competition, you know? You guys know it's very uncomfortable when we are not bidding and just giving the contracts to whoever we feel familiar with. So I would like to see options of doing it in-house and then put that revenue back to the people, especially how we're talking about property taxes. So we n

If it's managed correctly. And then also we can then discuss if that's the path we want to go or if we want to beat this and put it out there and see what other options we're going to have with somebody else.

All right. I need to know, because everyone's kind of saying different things. Are we at status quo? Are we looking at bidding it out?

What is your opinion? I think that if it's at the point where it can, because it did go out to bid, but they were the only ones. So if we're at that point where it can go out to bid, that's fine. As I understand it, this is a revenue source. where with a zero work. They're basically doing all the work and we get a percentage. So that's easy money and limited liability. So I think that's a good setup. And when you work on that percentage, If people are using it, great. Then we're making money. And if people are not using it, we're not losing money. But if you hire somebody for that purpose and

Yeah, we could go out to bid. Regarding hiring someone, I mean, we'll have to run a P&L, but I'm not sure if that's the best way, to be honest with you. But then again, we'll have to run a P&L. We don't know what profit this current vendor is making from having you know, the management of that space. And we'll have to do some research to see if something viable or even worthwhile because we can make some profit. But I don't know if that's where some of our efforts should be focused on, especially now that November is coming up. We don't know what's going to happen with the property tax bill. S

As a reference as well, to run Gateway, it costs us around $1.2 million a year, around. So we can call it like we are making actually profit or revenue out of it. We're not. We're losing. We're losing bad right now. So clearly, the way we are doing it right now, and when I say run it, run it overall for the numbers that I got from the budget. So overall, to run that building is around $1.2 million a year. Is that accurate, Mr. City Manager? That sounds a little high.

Can we get clarification on that number, please? Yes.

So we need to make sure that we get closer to at least make some revenue out of the rooms that we have there. Not only the big room and other rooms. We run a lot of good senior programs there.

And those are subsidized. So you got to remember a lot of the majority of those programs are subsidized. We don't know what's going to happen in November. So that's my point.

It might as well. We need to be a little bit more creative using the resources that we have right now to try to make a little bit more money than the one we're making right now. And like I said, we have a very, very good talent pool of employees running events continuously. So to the point that next year we are apparently planning to spend around half a million dollars only for the city anniversary. So I do believe we can take care of it. It might not happen.

Exactly. We might not. Okay. But I'm actually, from this discussion, I'm leaning very much towards keeping a third party because you're right. It's definitely, we're not making any profit. It's revenue to go towards paying for the light and and the landscaping, everything else. So do we have consensus to bid this out?

I'm in favor of bidding it out, but to keep it with a third party.

All right. All right. So city manager, if you have consensus to bid it out.

So we have already expired. That was my first question, actually.

I know that there is an event being planned in November. because someone contacted me regarding that. And they're already in conversations with the third party.

What I'm saying is that whatever events they're already in the process of planning,

All right, so Mr. City Manager, or actually the attorney, if we wanted to extend the contract while we put it out to bid, Is that something that's possible?

Are we OK to keep going? We're at 30 minutes? Oh, we have another 10 minutes. OK, go ahead.

Right. Well, obviously they would have to agree to it, but there's nothing that prevents us from doing it or locks us into another year.

Okay, and so how long, and again, I wasn't prepared for this conversation, so I'm sure you weren't, but how long would it take to procure someone new? Let's say we wanted to go with someone new. It would be at least three months, correct?

All right, so do we have consensus to ask them?

We've had that before where no one steps up.

Correct. Yeah, but then you have them in place.

Unless they get perturbed and say, you know what, I'll finish my contracts and goodbye.

Right. Well, if it's terminated. All right. So three months? Sure. Okay.

time we bring it to you for that's perfect four months all right let's see if that's possible if they agree to that okay all right next item the next item is 4d discussion by commissioner citizen regarding the elimination of a beach the beach event requirements okay

And we don't have no public speakers, right? We didn't have any, no. OK, perfect. So every resident of the city pays for the beach. But if you live west of Collins and you want to have a birthday on the sand or whatever other kind of party, the city published a document titled the Public Beach Park Events Permit Application. Under the word public, it says, and I'm quoting, all individuals seeking a special event permit must contract with an offland property owner, and special event permits are not issued directly to individuals. So we created a public speech application and told the public the

OK. OK, so this is something that we can easily fix. to allowing the public and anybody, any resident or whatever terms we want to use, owners or so, of the city of Sunny Isles Beach to be able to apply to have events on the beach. I did receive, and I believe everybody else received, an email from one of the, I'm looking for it, from the attorney from Aquilina requesting not to change the status quo because they consider the beach an extension of their home and they don't want to see, I'm paraphrasing because I cannot find the email right now. Like I said, this is something that, according to

OK. So for clarification before I take comments from the commission, right now, if you want to go and have a birthday party and set up a table and a tent on the beach, do you have to get a permit for that?

On the weekends, we see people come on the beach, and they have boom boxes, and they put out a whole spread. Are they getting permits for that?

You're just dragging it all up yourself.

So for clarification, because I've had residents ask me, how do I get a permit? And I want to make sure I gave them the right information. So people that wanted to bring chairs and wanted to have poetry readings or they wanted to have some yoga. I guess yoga, and no electricity. They told me, we want to put out candles that are on battery. And I asked them, I said, are you going to have music? And they said, yes. I said, well, as long as you're not putting up a stage and you're not putting anything up that is preventing people from around to enter that area, you probably don't need a permit. S

Right. Because I have a question before you continue, please.

In about the 161 that you were referring to, it says the title seawater erosion control line invests in the state. like we know, held in trust for all the people. Condoms on upland to the ECL, to the erosion control line. The white re-nourished beach is sovereign public land. They hold riparian rights, access, view, bathing, not tidal to the sand, and not a veto over a permit. Right now, they are the ones deciding who even gets to apply, because you have to go to the building and beg them to be the ones to put in the application for you, because nobody can apply. Only the buildings can apply.

Exactly. But that's what 161 says. So the municipalities are the ones who have to enforce. We are giving here the power to a private condominium deciding who can and cannot make an event. And then remember that we do have some kind of a precedent. Because right now, we charge $150 a year for these condos to apply to preset and put those chairs on the beach. I'm going to repeat in case that people don't get that number. $150 a year to allow them to get all the spaces that they get that is supposed to be in the website, because I continue getting people asking. We asked this long time ago to be

No, no, no. That's not the reading of the 161. And I'm saying that you are in the same level that what they are saying. So to your point, and their point is the same.

OK, if it's going to be fixed, that's all I'm asking for. Because like I said, we cannot have a public application where the public cannot apply. That doesn't make any sense. So the people has to be able to go and request. And then we are the one who say yes or no. By giving that better power to a private entity, I don't think it's intentional of the law either.

So if somebody wants to have a party at Samson, who do they apply to?

But let's say, so to Commissioner Simpson's point, so she's saying that nobody can apply privately. But we have three, right, three places on the beach that technically those are, so we have Pier Park, we have Ellen Wynn, and we have Samson. So if somebody says, I don't want to work with whatever, whatever building, Sam's Point, I want to do it at Samson, where we do have electricity, we do have water, would they apply to us? They cannot apply. No, no, no. That's not true. Hold on a second. Please let one person at a time.

What I meant is who is considered the upland owner?

you know we'd have to set up something where they'd be it would be a rental similar to other parks right okay if may i i asked this specific question in march and the answer was by our deputy city manager, that it was a decision made by a previous administration that we are not here, apparently, because I never get clarification of which administration, that Sansom Park was not part of the rental parks PROGRAM. SO RIGHT NOW I WANT REALLY SO RIGHT NOW I WANT REALLY CLARIFICATION BECAUSE WHAT IS CLARIFICATION BECAUSE WHAT IS BEING SAID RIGHT NOW IS NOT BEING SAID RIGHT NOW IS NOT THE SAME AS WHA

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE BEACH. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE AND CORRECT ME IF I'M

No, it was the beach. It was the same discussion that we had in March. One second.

So let me just play a scenario. So if somebody wanted to have an event, let's say like yoga, every week, every month, and they rented it. And we could do rent Samson Park. And they rented it every last Friday of the month. Would that mean that that would prevent the people from Winston Towers from using that area of the beach?

I'm asking, was the peer included in that exemption? No, the peer was not.

Okay, so, I mean, obviously there's a lot of questions here, and since you are revising the code, I think it's a good conversation to have.

Look, I've seen many teenagers at the end of the school year set up parties on the beach. And they do what they do. And if they do it wrong, we kick them out. But people are using the electricity there to charge their phones or whatever it is. They listen to music. So it is a public service. It is a public park. It is being used. It's not being limited.

I think to your point, Commissioner Susan, you're talking specifically about the yoga events that were... No, I'm just talking about anybody, every resident of Sunny Isles to be able to apply to have an event on the beach. It's very simple. Right now, we don't have that. And whenever you're going to do an event, whenever you're going to do it, if you're going to rent Pelican Park on the first floor, guess what? So... somebody is not going to be able to use that space when we are renting. So the same thing applies for every single rental. So to the example that, oh, yeah, they're going to be ta

I don't think anyone on this commission has said that. No, no, no. I didn't say anyone here on the commission.

I live on the west side, for the record.

And certainly we want everyone to be able to enjoy the beach. I think that the challenge is specifically for an organized event that requires water and electricity and the right of way to get to that area. So I think the solution is the three areas of the city that we have control over. Sampson is always going to be a challenge because unlike Pelican first floor, you know, That beach is used by Winston-Towers every single morning, from morning to way past when it's supposed to be closed. So it's not something that we can just say, OK, you'll just have to deal with it, unless you want to deal w

So it's only if they- Yoga people. The yoga people- move out when they're making their own yoga things. I receive those, even pictures all the time. They try to do their yoga, and then they tell them that they don't have a permit to be doing yoga.

RIGHT. AND I HAVE ACTUALLY ALSO HAD PEOPLE ASK ME SAYING THAT THEY WANT TO HAVE AN EVENT AND THEY WANT TO CHARGE. AND I SAID DO NOT DO THAT. YOU NEED A PERMIT FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT COMMISSIONER LAMA YOU WANTED TO SPEAK.

SO I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, THE CITY SHOULD BE THE MANAGING AND APPROVING ENTITY FOR THESE TYPES OF APPLICATIONS. I understand that the way it's set up right now, you know, the building that's on the sand would have to be involved in that process, right?

Well, obviously, if you're going to use, exactly. So, but what I like to, basically what I want is for everybody to have the same access and be able to, you know, fill out the same application. Now, talking about the other side of the coin, I have received complaints from time to time where you have maybe 50 people in a yoga class, and they're basically taking up the entire beach. I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN, BUT IT WAS DONE WITHOUT THE CITY'S KNOWLEDGE. THEY DID NOT COME TO THE CITY FOR AN APPLICATION. SO GOING BACK TO MY POINT, THE CITY SHOULD BE THE ONLY ENTITY MANAGING AND APPR

all right um go ahead no go ahead no i just i i just wanted to clarify something um even a oceanside property owner if they're having an event on the beach they still need a permit through us as well yeah yeah and exactly so but but i just want the process to be modified so you know everybody can apply and it's not dependent on that building on the east side now that building be in the sovereign building, they could say, I don't want to give you my electricity. I mean, what happens in that instance?

So as you're revamping, the ordinance, I think there's two things that we need to think about. One of them is the intended length of the event. Because if it's a birthday party that's for an hour or two, and you show up with some pizza, and you go home. I don't think you need a permit for that. But if it's going to be longer where you're more likely to need a bathroom or other things, then you would need a permit. And then the other thing is the expectation of privacy. If I'm with a bunch of kids with pizza on the beach, I don't have an expectation of privacy. And if somebody comes and sets th

Well, I guess I'm thinking the exclusive use.

But then what's the point of the permit?

OK. So I want to be careful that we're not over-regulating something, because I do agree to Commissioner Stevenson's point that there was those yoga people that were being asked to move. And I think that was because there was not clarification on our ordinance but on the other hand I also don't want to be in a situation where we're gonna have a wedding on the beach every single you know weekend from outside the city because we can't just limit it to residents it has to be everyone it's it's in trust for the people right exactly so you know right now what would stop me and And I'm assuming it's

Right now, regarding that, there's nothing in writing, correct? There's nothing in writing right now regarding what you're speaking of.

Yeah, but it's variable. Unless you have something in writing, what you're discussing now, it's variable. And people, you know, it becomes prejudicial.

that if you don't have it in writing, exactly what you're allowing.

The criteria, yeah. And then it becomes prejudicial. Because then you might one day exclude someone or tell them, you can't do this. But then the other day, you might say, yes, that's fine, and look away.

But I hope you're taking notes because we need to define something after today.

Right. Because we don't have parking, which is a good thing too.

Yeah, but that's a good point about the concerts.

They don't have a parking. They were to park.

So it doesn't matter. You could find ways.

I'm not comfortable with that because...

There was people that wanted to rent out the, what are they called, those boats that you stand on. I forgot what they're called. So I just think that this is a conversation that needs to include, certainly, whoever is affected by it.

Yeah, I have one more question. So if there is no commercial activity permitted, what about the just kids rental?

But they can go to the county instead of coming to us?

You can go to the next one. We don't have the time for this one anymore.

OK, so I guess we all know what is an inspector general, but I'm going to read it. It's a single independent office investigators and auditors that review our contracts, our procurement, capital projects, cash fraud, waste, abuse, mismanagement before the money is gone. It reports to the residents, not to the officials they are watching. It is internal affairs for the whole of city government. So I had this also a long time ago. I brought it here. Many municipalities are right now either contracting with other bodies, the inspector general, or having their own inspector or, I don't know, combi

Yeah, I'd like to research it more. I don't know enough about something like this. So, yeah.

I also, what are the aspects that the Inspector General would be looking into?

Whatever they are tasked to do. Like I said, the best example is like internal affairs for the police department. And like I read before, they are the ones that do. I'm going to repeat. They have auditors, investigators that review contracts, procurement, capital projects to catch fraud, waste, mismanagement, and abuse before the money is gone.

Commissioner Stevenson, could you explain the analogy? Because you said it works like internal affairs for the police. So what does internal affairs for the police do? They investigate police officers. Based on what? Any wrongdoing. No, but how does the investigation start?

Oh, I don't know how they do it internally. I will not even ask. But it's like, it's the watchdog of the police. How is it triggered? I'm trying to see where they're triggered. Somebody has to make a request or so. But to the auditor part, OK? So right now, I am researching about and continue just still waiting for information, especially the reconciliation of the 533, about the building fund. Because the building fund used to be $8.5 million. And this year, it's going to be less than $100,000. Again, it went from $8.5 million to less than $100,000. It's supposed to be around $97,000. So in th

Well, precisely. And the audience was amazing. Guess what? They reviewed what they were asked to review, but they were never asked to review the building fund. So we passed, like I said, flying colors about something that we didn't even ask to check. So I'm going to repeat, they check investment, they check that what we say came in actually came in, that what we say came out actually came out. But one specific question, how we drain $8.5 million of the building fund was never answered. It was not a reconciliation. Why? Because it was not in the scope of the audit. So to point out that everythi

On the building fall? Definitely. 100%. So you're saying that finance is hiding something?

I'm not pointing fingers to anyone. Because like I said, the amount of money in, it was the right money in. The amount of money out, somehow it was reconciliated. However, it's very specific how we can use the money of the building fund. And guess what? Building a restaurant is not how you use the money of the building fund. Pay salaries of The general staff of the city, no. The building fund is specifically for building enforcement. It is for inspector to read the reviews, plans, et cetera. That is what is money that is restricted. So to your question, do I believe it was misused, the money?

Let me ask you a question. I know you want to ask something, but I just want to be able to finish this point. Because if there was, let's assume that there was an inspector general, which would be a charter position, which reports to the commission. Correct? Is that what you're asking? But it was actually to the residents, but yes, it will come to us and maybe give it to the commission. To the commission, not to the residents, to the commission. We're representing the residents. Yeah, yeah, OK. So you're saying you want to be able to individually, each person on this commission, request that person to audit certain portions that you feel there's wrongdoing?

I don't know about the details how we are going to be putting it. I think not only us, probably also employees of the city staff should be able to initiate or request something to be seen. So I think those are the details of how it's going to be built. And we will probably have to check best practices of other inspector generals in other municipalities. But that's why I'm giving actually two examples. A contract that started with $100 million and right now is at $1.2 million after amendment, after amendment. Building fund that is being used as basically a slush fund to use it for anything or e

Let the attorney, and then just don't forget what you want to say.

I mean, I'm not inclined to add anything right now until we figure out what's happening with the taxes. But Commissioner Joseph, go ahead.

OK. So isn't there a department within the sheriff's department that does specifically this as well?

Are you asking me? Yes. I don't know the departments of the cherry department. No, I don't know. It might or might not.

All right. So your issue, basically, from what you've spoken about, is regarding the funds within the building department, correct?

And how they're used? That's not the issue. It's that we need oversight.

Right. OK. So then please explain to me what other issues within the city require the oversight of an inspector general.

Well, we'll be talking about that if we are naming them. First, we need to know if we're going to have the inspector general.

Well, no, before I would vote on an inspector general, I would like to know what other issues have come to your attention that might require an inspector general.

I usually don't answer with another question, but I'm going to ask you. So you don't have any, anything has never come to you of questions that we need some kind of investigation? Because you claim everybody in the city talks to you and ask you everything, and that you are the one for the people.

And that's why we have the next item on this agenda.

OK, so that has nothing to do. This is very specific. We're going to have the inspector general office, yes or no. If you don't want oversight, that's OK. That's your decision. So just like the mayor said, she doesn't want it. That's fine. So I said that we need it.

OK. Any other comments? No. All right. Let's go to the next item. 4G?

So in 2022, when I became a commissioner, I was on the commission with Mayor Dana Goldman. She decided to call for a change in city managers and brought in Stan Morris. I took a wait-and-see approach to see what type of job he did.

I believe so. I don't know the contract, but I wasn't on commission at that time.

I'd like to clarify that. So when Chris Russo was the city manager, what position did Stan have?

I wasn't on the commission at that time, so I don't know. Neither was I. She just answered you. Deputy city manager.

So Stan had Susan's position. And what position did Susan have at that time?

So Stan was the deputy, and Susan was the assistant city manager. So the deputy city manager was below Susan at that time or not? No. I'm trying to understand the hierarchy.

It was Chris, it was Stan, and it was Susan.

OK. Chris, Stan, and Susan. OK. So good. OK. So we had issues in the city that, while Chris Russo was the city manager, that

I just want to be careful, please, Jerry, that we're not defaming anyone. No, no, no, no. OK, I just want to be very, very careful. He's not here.

No. Please be careful. No, I'm talking about my feelings when I became a commissioner. I thought at that time we should have brought in an outside person as city manager rather than staying from within the city because I wasn't happy during COVID with what I saw on the commission. I didn't have at that time even to even think to run for commissioner. But watching during COVID all of the Zoom issues that occurred, caused me to want to run in order to try to help and alleviate some of these issues. But being that I was only one vote, and Dana Goldman, in her poor judgment, OK. I brought Stan in

OK. Any other comments from the commission?

I think the courtesy would have been to just tell him you don't need to make a public thing about it. And with regards to hiring within the city, we're a tiny city. That's a very limited pool of people. I think you may want to rethink that one. Yeah, no, I obviously... I just don't agree with you. I think having had the experience of more than one city manager, I think Stan has done a fantastic job. And I know that you're waiting for me to turn out, you know, to have that conversation, and I don't think that we should be polling the commission here. But, you know... you know that, you know wha

But all of those things come through come through the manager. We can propose our initiatives, but a lot of the stuff of the day-to-day that gets done are things that are being proposed through the departments and through the manager. And the departments don't work independently of the manager. That is under his oversight. We have an accredited police department. We are one of a tiny, tiny percentage of cities that have an accredited building department. We have the autism training across, you know, for the ocean rescue and for the police department, hirings across the departments, cleaning le

Yeah, so... Just wanted to point a couple things out. So with Stan and the current management setup, the police department was accredited. Our building department has been accredited. Communication has improved drastically. There's been transparency, in my opinion, more transparency than before, a lot more. and then when it comes to to some of your grievances i'm not trying to discount them but i'm just trying to understand because it's it's been ambiguous right now if you could just bring up some specific examples and situations i i would appreciate that because i i like to be informed no pro

It's not that I'm not happy. This is not personal. No, no, but you're disappointed.

Not disappointed. Okay, can you give us some specifics? This is all budgetary. It's issues regarding the city that could have been moved forward, problems that could have been solved years ago. Now, several years ago, where... Things increase where we could have had Center Island flooding issues solved years ago, but they were not addressed by the city manager with no reason whatsoever. For a year, I fought him on the injection wells, and he knew it wouldn't work. And the previous city engineer said, I don't know what his reason was for leaving, but he absolutely knew that I was totally agains

Mauricio, we have another 20... We still have time. Is that a time? We still have time. Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay.

Would you like to ask me about anything else?

No, no, that's it. I just want some specifics. I think, well, the injection wells was put aside. Now we're looking at pumps. Yeah, but I mean, we have a new engineer. So we have a new city engineer. Well, you know, we were basing our... You voted for things that have gone wrong, too.

Because the city manager gives an indication that he's for it, and there are some commissioners that vote yes, basically, on the city manager's recommendation most of the time.

I do think for myself. Or doing your own research.

Yeah, I do my own research. But in a lot of events, like I said, to be fair, we don't have the time. We're not given the time to do the necessary research on high budget items.

Well, now we're looking, well, regardless. So I just wanted some specifics, but I think we all take pride in what we do and we're responsible. We do our own research that we disagree in certain decisions. That's another point. But I don't, you know, I don't think it's appropriate for you to say and assume that we don't do our research because sometimes you sit here and I'm just shaking my head like, This guy's coming from left field. Where is he coming from? So I'm just at that point. Commissioner Joseph, just one at a time, please. When I spoke of about the injection, I was coming from left f

I have many others. I wasn't interested in going into it tonight. Like I said, this was basically a courtesy. It could be that I have three votes tonight. Who knows? Today? I don't know. I can't speak to anyone regarding that, but it could be. Why? Are you asking now for a consensus? No, I'm not. I'm just having a conversation with you. It could be there are three votes on the commission tonight to remove the city manager. I don't know.

Commissioner Joseph, to Commissioner Lama's point, did you go, or actually to Vice Mayor's point, did you speak to the manager about the items that you are concerned about and how you're unhappy with his work?

We didn't have a discussion, but he knows there have been issues in the past that I've been absolutely against.

Well, for clarification, I think this is what Commissioner Lam was saying, that we don't always agree. So sometimes I get voted out. Sometimes you get voted out as far as what we are sponsoring. So it's not necessarily the manager. It's the commission that you may not agree with. So I just want to make sure we separate those things. Because have we ever given instruction to the manager that he went against?

It's not for me. It's the mayor, actually, is the one that speaks to the city manager regarding any change that you want to make. It's not for a commissioner.

No, everyone can speak to the city manager about his work. Any commissioner can speak to the manager.

But it's not for me to remove a city manager. It's the mayor's position.

It's a consensus. But OK. Is there any more comments? No. OK. Next item, please.

So we had this conversation before during one of our meetings, correct? And I was asking if the city itself can impose any sort of monitoring of the subsidence based on recent events, unfortunate recent events. And that is not up to us. We don't have the, let's say, the jurisdiction to do something like that. It would need to be state regulated. So my question is, and what I would like to see, is if we could lobby. And perhaps before lobbying, start the conversation with the entities in the know. about implementing some sort of program or the state adopting some sort of legislation where certa

I have a question. Was this discussed prior to today with the manager and the attorney? Yes, yes. Okay, so what is the current code? Because it's based on Florida building code, so we can't just override that

And just because we kind of don't have that many left parcels, would this be something that would be retroactive?

OK. Does anyone have any comments? Commissioner Joseph, you want to say something?

I think from what I've read and what the newspapers are writing, I don't know if it's absolutely true. Sometimes the newspapers put out things that are, yeah. So we have in the city a couple of buildings that are subsiding. We don't know this to be true. Yeah, we don't know if it's true. But they had mentioned a couple of names. I'm not going to mention them now. But they do require watching, like Alex said. And for the new structures, I just hope that, They're built on solid ground, and we don't have those issues. And that's all we can hope for.

Anyone else? No? Commissioner Sousa? No? Okay. Are you satisfied, Commissioner Lama? Yes. Okay. Next item.

And I will continue speaking to our staff. Please.

And nothing stops in November. You can continue.

Yeah. Sorry, my only comment is, like, we can put it in the priorities that we're going to be setting.

Yeah, yeah, that would be one of the priorities. And, you know... To be honest with you, I don't know how we would go about this. I mean, we'll have to talk to engineers. We'll have to talk to geologists. Would it be just certain areas? Would it be? So it's very complex. And just like what happened after Hurricane Andrew, the building codes changed. I think that eventually this is something maybe five years from now, 10 years from now, something that could be part of the state codes.

Well, just to say one more thing, we haven't had... recently a Cat 5 that has come on from the ocean. So we don't know what the effect would be on these buildings we have now. That too, yeah.

Yeah, so basically, this is simple. I like to understand our process because I know that we put out there invitation to bids, request for proposal, and request for qualification. So in an effort, I think, to make sure that we do award contracts to the to the best contractor. So we are not saddled with either change orders or having to replace an elevator that was not put in correctly, et cetera, et cetera. I just wanted to make sure and understand that process and direct staff to see where are there perhaps some weak points that we could reinforce. So us as a body, including the commission, we

All right. So can we just get a little summary or not? We can have a long discussion because we have time on what the process currently is. And I think you're speaking about the elevator or gateway, correct?

Yeah. Yeah. All right. But it's everything.

No, I understand. I understand. Just for clarification. Please go ahead.

So... Yeah, so from what I understand, so... As part of our discussions and what I learned is that an invitation to bid requires us to award the contract to the lowest and best, not best, but the bidder that obviously fills in all the parameters, right?

Yeah, and that's one of my points. So it's South Florida again. So basically, when we have the ITB, we get a pool of qualified contractors or vendors, correct? And then from that pool... after we're well into the process is when we start talking about pricing.

How much control do we have over this process?

Have you discussed, are you proposing any sort of process changes?

No, no, I just want to do the... You just want to discuss it. I want to do the... research first, understand the process, and then see if perhaps we could make this process a little bit stronger if it needs to. I don't know. At this point, I'm just in an exploratory phase and trying to understand the process. Yeah, and that's what I wanted to see if staff and perhaps we could understand the process a little bit better, identify perhaps some areas where we could make it stronger, and as much as possible try to avoid hiring contractor that sucks, basically.

building official to answer a lot of these questions that the residents have brought to the commissioner yeah this is more like a residential if they're remodeling there or building a house or something but you know we're doing something like a town hall but but to your point and for our like procurement process in general

How we decide who is the more qualified, responsible, and responsible, there is a committee, correct me if I'm wrong, that the city manager decides which part of the staff appoint people to that committee. And that committee decides and gives a tabulation to which is the one that they're going to be So in order to actually be transparent, because I do believe that we have a lack of transparency heavily, that tabulation should be at, every time that there is a recommendation, we should know how many people bid, what was the tabulation, what were the prices. Because right now, we could just get

Well, you know what? This is something that I think it's not, you know, it happens to a lot of cities, to the county. I was just reading something about the county and, you know, the problems with the airport and everything. So I think it's something that perhaps even at a municipal level is something that we could discuss with other municipalities and even the county. I don't know, I'm just, you know, bringing up some ideas, but.

I asked, actually. I asked for that as well. But has there ever been a time, Commissioner Stevens, I just want to ask that that information was requested and you didn't get it?

I will have to search that. I'm not on top of my head.

So if we're looking to build a civic center, there are cities that have built civic centers. We should check around, or the committee or whoever it is that's looking to get bids from contractors should look around and see what good experiences cities have had and try to approach those contractors for a bid. I'm not saying that every time they put something... Well, you have to put it out to bid, Jerry, remember? But you can ask them to be a part of the bidding process.

So if you have six buildings that have been built that... went through without much of an issue. That got built. And other cities throughout the state are happy with them. I know it's difficult if you have a contractor from Orlando. They have their equipment there. They're not going to come here to do a construction. It's cost prohibitive. But if we have in the vicinity that it makes sense and other cities that have built a similar structure, why shouldn't we be able to get the names of those contractors and include them somehow into our bidding process?

So is that how we do it? We send out mailers?

We have six minutes on this item. Please, if you can. No, Mauricio has three, but I have six. 13? No. I have six. I put it on. All right. However long you need.

Yes. So you can't call your friend Joe and say, hey, go bid on this. Or you can?

OK, thank you. I think you and your department, you do an amazing job. Thank you. Thank you for that. Appreciate it. OK. We're good, Commissioner? I'm good. Thanks. All right. One more item is yours.

Yes. Sorry. Before we speak about this item, I have one question.

So there's another property on the street of Richelieu, correct?

Wait, we're going to go to that right now.

Can you just wait until we talk about, you're going to the next item. Okay. Okay?

So I believe this might not be the time to discuss this, because are there any discussions regarding the completion of the city purchasing that block or no?

So we had, you had previously brought to us the fact that the city was negotiating.

Small condominium on the block where Richelieu was, correct, to complete that street? Is that correct?

I think he's referring to the building that's next to the empty lot.

There's one other property that the city would like to obtain, correct?

I don't think we're in any negotiations.

OK. But I heard out of your mouth previously that you were looking to purchase that property. Is that correct or not?

If I knew the name of the property, I would say, does anyone know the name of the property?

I will look it up. But in the meantime, this is Commissioner Loma's item. Okay. Go ahead.

So, no, basically this has to do with the community center. Yes. We discussed this already. Sorry. One minute, please.

Because, yes, but I understand. Jerry, let me finish. But if we're going to be negotiating, this puts the city in a different position if we're talking about building on a property next to something that we might be looking to purchase.

OK. So my point is I'm not that far ahead right now. My point is that if we're going to build a community center, there's been talk about doing repairs to Pelican right now. taking off the debt service or the bond in the budget, et cetera. I'm fine with that. But what I'm trying to say is that we all need to backtrack and we need to take a closer look at the different community centers that are in our neighboring cities. You have Doral at $150 million, then you have NMB at a 39. So there's like a disparity between prices. And I think that first we should have you know dive deeper look at some

I just want to add, Commissioner Lallema, and then you'll have to let someone else speak for a minute. But while I'm not opposed to a workshop, we have had extensive conversations about this. We hired consultants. We went through the whole process. So are you suggesting that we start over?

No, not necessarily, but I think that we should or perhaps we each have conversation with staff and, you know, take a look at some of the pricing and our neighboring municipalities and see what they've spent and what are the components and some of these community centers. So. we could probably benchmark it differently or better. And obviously, I don't think, let's say we don't want a $200 million community center, then we look at what other options are there. Like I had mentioned previously, I always like to look at different option price points. So that's my point, basically.

OK. Vice Mayor, did you want to say something?

I agree that we've had extensive conversations. And my concern, Alex, is that everybody's going to like the $200 million project, but they're going to want to pay $50. And that's a problem we have. Right. And that's the underlying issue with this particular group of commissioners is that we have a hard time getting consensus on some of this big stuff. Fine, we can get more prices, but I think it's

No, no, but aside from that, I mean, like, for instance, I'll go to NMB and look at the community center. Perhaps that's, I think, at 30, 36 million. Perhaps that will suffice. That will be more than great for our city. Those are the questions that I'm having right now in my... It's better than empty land. Of course, we need a community center. So we got to see if we make, at what price point we want to decide to make it.

Well, you can't decide the price and then back into what you want, because we already know what we want. And if we're just saying that we want to spend... And it's not $36 million. It's not $36 million, but... No, I'm not saying that. No, no, I understand what you... I want a nice center too for...

Like, in my mind, I'm going to go to NMB, I'm going to go to Doral, take a look at them, like, you know, live, and take it from there.

Deputy Manager, did you want to say something?

We would have to build a parking garage, which is very expensive. By the way, I think that price ballooned to like $30 or $30-something million right now. So yeah.

And it's become also a mess from what I've been able to research. The pricing has ballooned and it's become political, too.

But how much do you know? I mean, since we have some time, how was that decided? Did they just ask for input from the community? Did they just pick?

That's why I want to do some research. Okay. Perhaps, you know, I would like to go to a community center and say, okay, you know what, maybe the Doral one is the one we want because this has got all the components. And, yeah, it will be $150 million. Or I go to Key Biscayne and say, you know what, for $70 million, you know, the Key Biscayne one, you know, it's comparable to, I think, what? COULD HAVE HERE.

WE'RE ALWAYS PUTTING THE CAR BEFORE THE HORSE.

LIKE SUSAN JUST SAID, WE NEED A PARKING GARAGE. NO, WE DO NEED A PARKING GARAGE, JERRY. YEAH. BUT I THINK ALSO TO BE FAIR, WE NEED TO GET CLEAR DIRECTION.

YOU DON'T BUILD A $70 MILLION BUILDING AND THEN BUILD A PARKING GARAGE AFTERWARDS.

NO, BUT WE NEED TO GIVE CLEAR DIRECTION TO, I MEAN, WE'VE GIVEN DIRECTION TO THE STAFF BUT THEN WE CHANGE AND I THINK THAT WE NEED TO, YOU perhaps all of us have a conversation that's productive. And a parking garage is a moneymaker, besides.

OK. So can we just get some next steps on this? What is it that you want?

Next steps is look at the different community centers out there and perhaps do another review. And we could individually sit down with staff, or we could have a workshop, or this could be an email.

You're willing to drive around and do it?

Okay. Anyone else had anything to add to this? Okay. We did okay. We didn't even hit 4.30. All right. Before you turn off the tape, 6.30, everyone will see you back at 6.30. Thank you. Meeting adjourned.