Planning and Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

Thank you. Do we have a 10 commission liaison report.

From June 25th I wasn't there but I'm happy to move to approve.

Question for the town attorney. Can you confirm whether the 2008 design guidelines are in play tonight?

OK. And so tonight, what should we be judging from a code perspective? What should we be judging and reviewing applicants?

So for clarification, no matter when they submitted their application, this is not enforceable, right?

But for these applications that we have today,

Thank you. So considering that everybody wants to proceed as established, let's go with item number four, agenda and order of business, and I receive the petition of moving one of the items towards the beginning for the application, which is the benches, right? Item number 8B. Plastic fishermen park benches for the beach. somebody will have to make a motion besides you chair yeah i cannot make the motion and so if i can pass the gavel i can make the motion yes you may right okay do you want to make the motion sure i can move the item to the beginning of the agenda 8b to be heard now i'll secon

After this? After this. Okay. And Madam Clerk, do we need to serve anybody after this?

Maybe you could give us an overview of what the plan is for these. I've seen the pictures, but are you asking for a decision or a recommendation on something?

And before we continue, yeah, bring it over. Before we continue, I want to recap on this item. This item was presented by the town manager, Mr. Diaz, in the last meeting, right, in the most recent meeting, and that was petitioned by the commissioners. So the commissioners wanted us to review this item.

I don't recall exactly the number of benches we're talking here or the location of the benches, but I do recall that we were talking about the material itself because we didn't have samples or anything to see. That was one question. The other question was, Existing location where these benches are installed nowadays so we can see how they behave like in natural conditions We were asking about the pricing also, so I I don't know if we can entertain those those aspects location number of benches pricing Existing absolutely. Okay.

Through the chair. I just want to say I love what you do. I think I've been to a few of your events. I love the idea of taking the garbage and the plastic off our beaches and making something beautiful. I think these are beautiful. I think the bay bench is a good option because it doesn't have metal. It's sturdy. You can feel how sturdy this is. I think it's going to hold up. So I strongly support this idea. I would love to see some of these on the beach or at the street ends facing the canal. And I also like the collection stations you have. I mean, I walk on the beach three or four times a w

The garbage can? Yeah, I love the garbage can too.

And just one more point, I buy a lot of benches and garbage cans for my developments, and they have to be heavy and sturdy so they don't walk away. We're spending more than these prices on those sorts of large concrete or heavy materials, so I think the price point is also good for the town.

And basically that would be the sample that is applicable to this selection, right?

I've been told we are a source site. We're not just Miami.

I would move we recommend the bay bench and consideration of the green bins and also the collect this fishing stations forward to the town commission for next steps there's one you made a comment about having a bar in the middle to so that nobody can sleep on them.

So maybe the motion is exactly what you said, but adding that portion.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know how much detail we need to provide. I think they're just looking for us to yay or nay and, you know, so. I vote yay. I move yay to the town commission.

Should I add on there a motion to discuss the bins? Too late now. Unless you retract the motion, then we can do another one. The what? Bins? To discuss the bins as well. No, it's part of the motion. It's part of the motion.

Three items, the bench, the bay bench, the garbage can, and the collecting station.

Very good. And now we go to item number five, applications. And then, Town Attorney.

I was contacted by Mr. Safransky about one item in the agenda, but we didn't have any conversation about it. He tried to contact me.

Thank you. Do the owners or owners want to speak about this house?

If you can state your address for the record as well.

Before we have questions, I think we have to open the floor to public comments. Anybody wishing to speak about this item? Then we close the floor. Now board members feel free. Who wants to ask any questions?

Yeah, it's tough. The maintenance versus the warmer look is a tough trade-off, yeah. Do you have any comments?

I find it quite interesting that all of a sudden we're sort of in limbo is where I feel like we're at. I can see some touches based on the comment that you made that you reached out to a previous member. And I honestly have to tell you that the articulation of the back of the house, I find it more residential than the stiffness of the front facade. And I'm not sure if it's something about whether you have these caps, these lines that you're outlining in a darker color versus the background of the actual building. And maybe what needs to happen is, since, and I may be completely out of line bec

It's in the shower of a bathroom in the second floor. Well, I would just take it out completely.

I don't think it's a place where you sit and contemplate the view from the second floor. But anyway, it's up to you. I think fair play. is all out there. My last comment is there seems to be a little bit of a lack of proper composition between the door of the garage, which sits low, obviously, because the car's not on jacks, but then the entry door goes all the way to the floor to ceiling. Meanwhile, the window to the left, which I think is quite an important window, I would try to make an effort to bring that all the way up so that it matches the height of that front door. And the composition

That's a tough header. Those are always tough. Yeah.

Excuse me for interrupting, because in the back, in the composition of the rear, you have the slats that you presented, the composite slats that go all the way up. And that first floor looks really clean with that column in the corner and then the header beam across with the slats reaching up to that point. And I like the composition of the back. With respect to what I was saying about the roof, that line that you're creating up there, you don't necessarily need to extend it in both directions. I think you have a terrace to the north. I would imagine this is the north on the right of the front

I don't think so. I think it just needs to go to the right. Because the bottom line is so strong where those plants are trying to hide it. That line is very strong and I think the other one is too timid. So if you just extended it a little bit towards the group of palm trees on the right, I think it would bring the whole composition a little closer.

You know, we seem to be in a whole different ballgame. Yeah. You're the boss.

I would say thank you so much for working with us over these months. I think this design has improved so much, and I think you should be really proud of it. I think it's beautiful. And I think, you know, just for the board's sake and anyone listening, this is exactly how P&Z helps make some of these designs possible. you know, better with collaboration with the applicant. And this is why I think our design guidelines are so important and why the collaboration between the applicant and the Planning and Zoning Board is important. So thank you for working with us. I'm in favor of moving this forw

Let me, I have a couple of questions here. I'm sorry. I have a couple of questions. Number one, and this is about, you know, technicalities maybe. on page A13, you have the scopper between six and seven, right? Between six and seven, you have.

Right, and there's a scopper there, right? Correct. Okay, so that is gonna create water going into, if we go to the ground floor, You're going to see that opening on the ground floors. That may create some sort of issue in there. Good point. Good point.

Now, the other question that I have is I don't see anything. Yes, we have to raise this house, right? It's part of what we need to do for COVID and FEMA. Now, how do we prevent the water running off to the sides, right, to the houses, existing houses in there in this situation? Because I don't see any element, any component preventing that water runoff. No, as you know,

And very quickly, I don't know if you have thought about what certification you will be pursuing lead of FGBC any certification and what what components you have in here to make sure that it's going to be achievable.

I know that it's a little bit more expensive to collect water on the roofs. duct them all the way down to a crawl space and put a tank, a reserve tank in the crawl space. Maybe the cost of doing that, when I say the tank and the crawl space, I'm talking about something that can hold maybe more than 500 gallons of water, rainwater, which could be then turned into a watering system for the plants, the beautiful plants on the first floor and the garden. So you're doing two things. You're saving money for the client who's gonna live here and having that second meter for irrigation, right, over the

Correct, but this was submitted prior to that or after that?

So that's why I was asking if they were, that resolution was retroactive. So it doesn't matter when they submitted the application. That is correct. Okay.

again that was just a suggestion thank you very much so do we have a motion yeah i have a motion on the table to approve with staff conditions and consideration of james's suggestions and i'll second the motion you can't second the motion yeah the the chair can second he cannot make yeah wow i wish i'd known that these last 15 years i was surprised last time so you know from now on i'll do it

Congrats. Item number 5B, 9017 Hardin Avenue.

Thank you very much. To the owner, owner rep wants to present.

Thank you very much for the presentation. We're going to open the floor to public comments. No public comments. We'll close the floor to public comments. And board members, we expect your comments now.

OK. Hi. Hi. Just wanted to Suggest to you, I think the front of this building, it looks like a building, the house is, for its location, I think you did a great job. But I have a couple of suggestions for you, if that's allowed. Open to suggestions.

Question. Your pool is on the northeast-northwest corner of the site. Correct. Did you consider the sun position at all in the selection of that corner for the pool, or there was other reasons and factors that made you decide to put it there? And I'll tell you why. The sun on the north side of us is probably maybe a two month thing. Most of the time the sun is on the south east corner of your property. And it seems like really appropriate to be out there in that pool when it's nice and sunny out. But I'm curious to know what made that decision.

So the commitment of having it there has been made, right?

I thought flipping the house would be perfect for that pool, but I'm sure you have stronger feelings about having it on that corner. I think the front is very articulate. I also like the fact that unlike the previous presentation, your windows and front door match the same heights for a nice composition at the entry. Thank you. I like the idea of having that pool on the second floor. It's actually very interesting to me.

Yeah. So the presentation of the house is, I think, quite nice for the location. The Harding is full of... unsightly things this is not going to be one thank you the back i would just suggest you know architect to architect um the back seems a little abandoned it seems like two buildings joined by a bridge in my is my sense of that bridge is a deck you're Right, but it's a little naked, the back. I don't know if you would consider creating some eyebrows maybe to help with the sun beating those windows right on the facade.

Well, in essence, I think you did a good job for that location. It's very challenging to do something creative when you have a highway in front of you.

Hi. Yeah, I think this is an interesting location. And I think the scale, were it anywhere else, would not be compatible with its neighbors. I'm still a little concerned about the single families across the street, which are going to be half the size of this home. So that gives me some pause. The disjointed nature of the balconies in the front is a little hard for me. Can you talk a little bit about why you've got the two elevations?

And the other consideration on those balconies, the glass, the west-facing glass may make that feel, I mean, real hot up there. You might think about some stainless steel cables or something that might let a little airflow up to those areas. Um, but the other two areas of questions that I have are, um, I, I do appreciate the new landscaping. However, I noticed you're removing the all existing trees, even those that are on the boundary line. And I'm wondering if we can't keep some of those existing mature trees as part of the landscaping plan.

Yeah, I mean, we're a tree city. We're a designated tree city. So we really try to preserve the canopy that exists when we can. And it looks just from the location of those existing trees that you should be able to work around them. So if you could, I'd like to have you do that. Okay. And then in terms of the lighting, the external lighting in the soffits and the LED strip lighting, I think is... not compatible with the neighborhood. I think the uplighting is beautiful, but I think especially given the height and the scale of this home, that all of that soffit lighting is going to be pretty st

The soffit lights and the LED strip lighting. Yeah. And then on the fencing, I noticed you had a fence in your materials, but I don't see where that is. And I'm not sure that the fence shown in the plans meets the 50% transparency requirement of the code. So that would definitely be something you would want to make sure you're meeting the code.

I may be looking at it differently, but his fence aligns with the garage door on the north.

Can you move your cursor to just show us on the plan? I'm sorry, I'm not seeing it.

Any comments? You're good. I have a question, and it's about the NGVD, right? We're supposed to be 10. You have nine in here. So the implication is having two additional steps. I mean front and back, right? The NGVD for this one is 9 as presented, and it should be 10? Yes. Right? So the only implication of that one foot difference is to add two steps in each side?

And my other question, this is because I don't know anymore what we're abiding for. The equipment, right, in the back of the house that is encroaching into the setbacks, that is allowed.

Well, actually, you can see it there, but if you go to A105,

So we're still allowing compressors on the ground?

Yeah, but to meet flood criteria. Yes, to meet flood criteria. That's the only requirement.

Yeah, building code. I'm not sure. I don't know, the building department wouldn't make that decision.

That's it on my end. Any more questions? Comments? No? We need a motion.

Would you accept, would you consider the comments that we've made? Oh, absolutely, yes. Okay, and try to make at least the effort to make some changes. And you have those changes pretty much lined up with your attorney? Yeah? Okay, so I move to approve subject to the changes that were discussed.

I think mine were trying to keep the existing trees on the property line and trying to, and removing the LED and soffit lighting or replacing that with a softer lighting program. And confirming that the fence meets the code.

I didn't hear anything else. I think you made the right.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Item 5C, 9164 Carlisle Avenue, new single-family home.

I'll open now the floor to public comments. Mr. Kousoulos.

And are you referring specifically to second story setback elements or lack thereof?

Thank you very much. Any other public comments? Please.

I'm sorry. Say your name and the address for the record.

Thank you. With that, we close the comments, public comments. Board members.

um it's a beautiful house there's no doubt about it i think uh the organizational part of it the the way the the facades address you know a common language which uh reads throughout the entire structure, whether it's the back or the front or the side. I just don't feel offended if I say something that you might not like. But I have to say that there's only one house that I can point to that has sort of the same spirit. in Surfside, which is a waterfront house that has been on the market forever. It says that it's under contract, hopefully it will be so we can see some people around. Architectu

There's a shiflera at the property line that you're proposing to remove that I think you could probably keep.

It'll definitely add to the character if you have a tree in front. I mean, it creates more interest.

But you may consider planting one in the front.

Okay. So I also appreciate the new architectural style. I think we welcome that. We don't have any particular architectural style in Surfside, and I think this has a lot of articulation. For me, the challenge is the compatibility with the neighborhood in terms of its height and scale. And I think when you look at page 0 to the Context massing really bears that out You know, I think like George mentioned You've you've have a unique use of the void that the code requires but in this particular application the void is entirely interior to the home and so the Neighbors and the street don't get any

Thank you very much. Any comments on your end? I tend to agree with the comments. I think the design is beautiful and it's very smart how you use all the components into something new to town. And the articulation in there, I think it's fantastic, right? Adding something extra to what we have so far. And we have heard so many times that, you know, we have these modern houses are just boxes. Something that cannot be said about this house is just a box. It's not just a box. So congratulations on that and thank you for presenting it. I tend to agree that the height could be kind of complicated an

Before I, I wanted to second, but before I second, I think it's something new, definitely very striking to see something new, something so different from, you know, the collage of modern architecture that we've seen over the years under the old code. But this, even though it's a very foreign style, it's been sewed very studiously. I think it's been a very conscientious effort to try to make this a very beautiful house. I don't think that I would go against it.

I'm conflicted here, but I'm going to say yes. Thank you. Thank you. I just want to say that every time that we have something new, right, we're afraid of the new in town. And we've been afraid of the new for so many years. But I do appreciate, you know, having that extra thought into what you presented in here. Next item, 5E, 8801 Deakins Avenue, Home Addition.

Thank you very much. Owner, owner's right, wish to speak. Please, yeah, state your name and the address for the record.

They have that beautiful, huge tree. Yeah, the one that looks like a top hat. Orchids and, yeah.

Thank you very much. That concludes the presentation. Okay, perfect. Thank you. So I'll open the floor to public comments if anyone to say anything about this. I'll close the floor and board members.

A2A02 is showing a roof plan with roof tile, right?

So you guys are taking all of the roof off from the house? Correct. And replacing it with a new roof?

Which cannot be solved with just putting like a steel column or anything.

Yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt you. It's just I have a big issue with that. I think the house that exists there is a very nice house. It's one of the nicest houses in Surfside, I would say, for a corner lot. Yes. And, you know, this presentation to me seems like it's... It looks minimal, but it really is huge because we're changing the entire character of the house by taking that roof off and making it a flat roof with a single slope. Yeah, it's it's really drastic.

And you can't work with the existing roof to make some cathedral ceilings inside the house and create a really interesting interior.

So just to understand, the floor plan on A01. Yes. I was reading it as partially existing, and then the front, the taupe color and the two tones of gray was the only scope of work. But what you're describing to me now is that the distribution of the existing house needs to be altered or will be altered and therefore the sloped roofs are not going to be able to survive and therefore we're taking it all off to put a flat roof Is that a good representation of what, is my understanding a good representation of what you're doing?

Yeah. That puts me on the fence. I have to be honest with you. I mean, I've renovated historic buildings, and I know it's hard. And I know it's not easy. Yeah. But it can be done.

Where there's a will, there's a way. And that's why we're professionals, right? Correct. We don't just draw pretty pictures. Correct. I mean, that's the notion, the public notion of an architect. Ah, draw me a little sketch. And then when you charge them, it's like, why are you charging me so much for the little sketch? I think that, honestly speaking, from my perspective, this is a major renovation of this house, is how I would qualify it. But I may be wrong, and you're welcome to prove me wrong.

Are you saying are you saying that you think you could accomplish this by with maintaining a pitched roof?

Even if they raised the roof or I'm saying that if they're looking for height Because the current ceilings are low Then it tells me that the the roof structure of the house are trusses but trusses can be modified and Yes, it's going to be a cost to modify the trusses on site, but it can be done so that you can create cathedral ceilings in the living room, for example, which may be continuous with the dining room. Kitchen may not need that, but... Yes, rather than taking walls down haphazardly and taking the entire roof off, I would choose to simply say, okay, where do I need, where within thes

And just to understand the goal, are you saying you're trying to preserve what the original architecture of the existing home?

Yeah, if we're gonna present this house as something that is just a modification of the garage, then I think that that does not tell me that it's just that. Now I've discovered that the entire roof is being pulled out, and that's fair game for anything. Excuse me, I'm sorry to interrupt you. and if the aesthetic were something that i that i would be willing to support yeah why not but but this is just a single slope going one way with cantilevers all all around the box it just is not appealing architecturally you're going from something that is that is uh let's say compatible with the context

And Mr. McKenzie, I hear you. I was reading the wrong way these drawings until you brought it to my attention. So can you talk about that?

I THINK THE ATTORNEY WANTS TO SAY SOMETHING.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE SOME HOWEVER, THERE ARE SOME CHANGES IN THE EXTERIOR WALLS. CHANGES IN THE EXTERIOR WALLS. THE EXTERIOR, YES. THE EXTERIOR, YES. EXACTLY. EXACTLY. AND THE ROOFING. AND THE ROOFING. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MORE THAN SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MORE THAN JUST THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. JUST THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. AND NOW YOU UNDERSTAND THE AND NOW YOU UNDERSTAND THE COMMENT ABOUT THE 50%. COMMENT ABOUT THE 50%. BECAUSE AT THE BEGINNING I WANTED BECAUSE AT THE BEGINNING I WANTED WHY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 50% IF WHY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 50% IF IT'S ONLY THE FRONT. IT'S ONLY THE FRONT. BUT

I think it's drawn in one of your exhibits. It's drawn. Yeah. I think it was A02. A02.

Are you changing out all the windows in the home?

Yeah, I mean, I also had some challenges with the roof. I think we're losing some articulation and the roof is not compatible with the rest of the home. I also wanted to make sure you're not removing any existing trees, which you confirmed. And then the lighting and the soffit also is, I made this comment earlier, but that's not compatible with the neighborhood. A lot of those lighting up, lot of the house with the the landscaping lighting is beautiful the up lighting of the of the Landscaping and I'd love to see a you know more subtle lens lighting exterior scheme That's more compatible with

Sorry, what's your name? Ash. Ash? Yes. Please don't take offense to what I'm saying.

Can I ask you, okay, let's assume you have to take the roof off, right? Which wasn't clear to me in these drawings. And apparently my colleagues are also. Instead of just doing a simple truss with a slope, can you try to recreate a sloped roof? In other words, let's change apples for apples and not apples for oranges. Is that possible? Since you're spending the money anyway. I mean, a trust like this is going to cost you less, yes, but a trust will cost you minimal. But you will maintain at least what 90% of the house looks like today. Correct. I mean, that is a very nice house, by the way. Ye

But now you don't have to spend in lead requirements. It's true.

Yeah, I think white cement tiles on a pitched roof would be beautiful and simple here.

Yeah. I do have to say that I appreciate you're keeping this a one-story floor. Yeah. And you're not doing a box per se. You said you're replacing the windows, right? And I see that on D1 existing windows compared to this one, right? So basically all the windows are going to be replaced too, and we're providing another shape of windows as well. Correct, for some locations. But it's going to be consistent all around. Correct.

I understand. With all the comments, does anybody have more comments, no? No, with all those comments, does anyone want to move forward and make a motion? And let's remember, we do have the motion to approve, approve with comments, defer or reject. Does anyone want to make a motion?

I mean, I think I could get comfortable with a condition on the roof, but as designed, no.

So would you make the motion to approve with the condition?

I mean, I can make the motion to approve with a sloped roof and confirming all existing trees remain and removal of the soffit lighting. In staff conditions.

The soffit lighting is not consistent with the rest of Surfside. So there are other ways to, you know, softly uplight the home that will, are nicer.

Anybody to second the motion? I'll second it.

gabled roof with tile, gable tiled roof. Throughout the house? Yep. Okay. Maintain the tree in the corner? All existing trees remain and remove soffit lighting.

And staff conditions. Board Member LeCour? Yes.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. And let's move to 5F, 9040 Abbott Avenue.

i was not given a chance to answer uh the attorney's question as to whether uh somebody had had previous conversations with the person oh okay so i want to disclosure an ex parte disclosure an ex parte communication disclosure so if you'd like to disclose Well, this project came before us in the previous administration. And in the previous administration, I had discussions with the architects of this project.

Okay. I just wanted to keep that on the record because it did happen.

Thank you very much. Do you want to say something else?

So if that concludes the presentation, I'll open the floor to the public if anybody wants to address any issue here. And I'll close the floor. So board members?

It's your turn. No, I have to say, this is a disclosure, right? And because of the situation that we're living now, I have to say that in normal conditions, and I've done that in previous lives in this, you know, board when I was in the previous administration and the previous one. Whenever there's, and this is not directed to you, by the way. Whenever there's this conflict between the drawings, I either reject or defer. I don't think it's fair to us, the board members, to receive something that is so inconsistent, right? And at the moment that we receive the correct drawings, then I will move

No. Yeah, it's under construction now, so everything.

I guess we're going the opposite way this time. Couple questions. I like the treatment in the front with the planters. I think the way you've kind of stepped up and addressed the additional elevation in the front works well. there is there's really no treatment of that elevation in the rear right so it's the the rear elevation is just a white wall all the way around and you know I would have really loved to see some similar you know step up and whether planters or transition on that unless the yeah

Yeah. Yeah, so you basically just have a white wall all the way around, and especially where that barbecue is, you've popped that wall up higher than the fence, so your neighbor's looking at a big wall there. So I would have liked to have seen, or I would like to see, a little bit more of a treatment or a transition there. The lighting... The LED strip lighting is not compatible with Surfside's lighting scheme. I'd like to see that be removed. The floodlights also, are those motion sensors or what are those on the corners of the house in the front? Cameras. OK, it looks like there's lighting t

Yeah, so in the back there, you've got those floodlights in the back. There was another one in the back that had floodlights in the corners. I'm not sure which is the correct rendering.

That floodlight is invasive to the neighbor. So if it's a camera, fine. If it's floodlights, I don't think that's compatible with our neighborhood. And the LED lighting all around, the strip lighting also. And then just a comment. I mean, this is your preference, but a black tile roof is going to be absorbing heat all day long. Your HVAC bill is going to be way higher. I think you could get away with a beautiful white cement tile roof, and it would be reflecting light and heat, and it would go with your design. Did you want to? If I can do just a small comment. Just speak into here. Sorry.

Yeah, I think anything lighter. And I mean, you have a very simple design here. And you're black and white, basically. So that's up to you. And then the rear windows, I don't know if anyone else, but the fact that they're different heights is a little awkward. I was wondering if there was some constraint you're working with there.

I understand. From the outside, you can see how it, you don't read that from the outside, right? But I can understand from the inside, yeah. Those are my comments.

That's it? I'm a little confused. Oh, by the way, for the record, this is not the house that we reviewed when we met in a previous life. I would have to say that your story is very compelling. It looks like you have a lot of patience. Thank God. I would like you to dress up the stairs from the street side. Only just a simple maybe 18-inch wide wall on either side accompanying so that they don't look like they're lonely or an afterthought between the wall of the house towards the street.

Yeah, we reviewed a two-story house. Right, exactly. Back then, yeah.

Yeah, and maybe, I don't know how you could do it, but it would be nice if you could step up, have a little landing, and then another step up. We can do that. I think it would create a little bit more interest and a better composition for the entrance. We could do that.

Could even be wide enough to have the plants in that structure.

Yeah, 18 inches or maybe. So you don't lose. Whatever suits you, but something that could have planting on.

And as far as the balconies, one of them is in violation of the code, right? Which would be the north one. Are you facing east or west? The front. We're facing east. You're facing east. Is it both balconies or just one?

But, you know, if we look at the floor, maybe I'm looking at the floor plan wrong, but.

It's both balconies that are in violation then?

Are you looking at a site plan that shows the balconies?

No, the only thing that shows the balconies, I think, is the rendering. The balconies have been taken out from the floor plan.

But you can see the 20 foot setback in the floor plan, or in the site plan.

Let's see. I have a site plan that shows the street at an angle. And I'm assuming that the left side meets the 20 feet, but on the right side, they'll probably have 25.

I see what you're saying. Because it's uneven, they might be able to pop out a little balcony on one side.

So I'm assuming that the north side where the master bedroom is, or the south side, would be in compliance. Can you look at that? Not now.

Yeah, it would be an oddball kind of situation. Yeah, or maybe you look for another way to deal with it. I'm not sure if you have a little bit of room to create like a Juliette kind of balcony. We thought about that. Yeah, so that you do have some articulation, not just a plain wall with two windows.

Just put the fence in there. You don't need to protrude.

You can open the door and still have the feeling of a balcony.

I think Scarlett's problem is the invasion of the setback, which you're only allowed, I think, eight inches, right?

We cannot approve protruding into the setbacks, right?

Okay. If we can, I think Mr. Kosalos has some idea on how to solve this situation.

Yeah. I think that would be a very nice elevation with that. Okay. I'm sure Scarlett would have to vet it, but let's hope that you find that little corner to give some leeway. In the back, I think the front is going to look very nice once you have those elements. In the back, it is a bit... I don't know if you... It is a bit troubling.

I'm wondering if there's a way to use the stairs in the back as a, you know, kind of having instead of the wall, a large stairway coming down. I don't know if you can have any room to move the pool a little further away and sort of move, transition that down the same way you're doing in the front where you've got some stairs, a landing, some stairs, and you can get some of that greenery in there to soften it up. It's one way to do it.

To the edge of the water, how much is it?

I don't think there's a rule for that. Yeah, no.

Okay. I think those are my comments. I think the front facade needs to be appealing, and I think they like the ideas, and I would say... The back, I agree. You know, if you could look for a way to make those steps a little different, where there's a softer transition, you know, it's not like going up.

I mean, you could do the same thing that he suggested on the front, where you have the 18-inch and, you know, and in that is some planters. That would also kind of make that corner of the pool, you know, you wouldn't be accessible for your grandchild. Like they'd have to come all the way out and then get in.

Yeah. I was going to ask you actually about the landscaping plan on the side setbacks of the home. Are you planting new plants that will be the same height as the home? Okay. I'm less concerned about the rear given that because you're going to have a green screen. But I think for future resale and just coherence of the architecture, I would encourage you to apply the same principles that you've got on the front and the back. But I would be...

I'm sorry, go ahead. I'm a little confused about the building department and the 50%. Is there still an issue pending about the 50%? That's why they have to bring it up. racing the finish for so what we're looking at is really your plan yes moving forward yes that meets the code requirements of the building department and everybody's happy okay i just want to make sure that we're approving if we're going to approve something that's already been vetted in that direction yes okay thank you just saw one clarification that um do do you want to ask that question uh

On the... On the side, on the side of the proposed elevated terrace, right?

But if it's an elevated terrace, there's no cube.

The comment is the pool equipment is located beneath the terrace.

Yeah, hopefully there's enough air circulation for the machinery in that height.

So if we don't have any more comments or questions.

Thank you, thank you for the comment. So do we have a motion?

I will move to approve with staff conditions the meeting of all code. Also with the removal of the LED strip lighting and flood lights and I think that was it for me. And the consideration of our suggestions regarding the rear elevation and the confirmation that the side setback plantings will be the height of the home.

And the comments associated with the front of the house as well.

Oh, thank you. And the comments. The suggestions, yes. Thank you. The suggestions for the front as well. The condition regarding the front elevation suggested by.

And I'll second the motion. So Madam Clerk.

Much better, and number seven, we have next meeting date, August 27. I won't be here on August 27, but I guess everybody else will be.

Yes, okay. Discussion items for the discussion item tracker. Do we have anything there?

Do we have any questions or comments about that? No? 8B, we went through that. 8C is the B40 district wall signs.

Board members, do you have any questions? Do you want to discuss this item or do you want to defer it until you digest the item for the next meeting?

If I understand correctly, we're moving towards scarlet or or let's say the zoning to dictate whether it meets code or not and and i think i'm fine with that i mean we don't need to see something that meets all the zoning requirements unless it's you know graffiti or something like that i presume no

I mean, I would say I'm torn. I understand that 9 out of 10 signs that come before us are very straightforward. I have seen in the past times where this board has vastly improved a sign or caught things such as the sign says Bay Harbor in it instead of Surfside. I also in my mind is the general beautification of our retail and business district, which I think is signs and awnings together. Um, and a lot of times we get a sign by itself without an awning. And I, and I do think that we could do better about saying, if we're going to do signs, let's do the awning if it needs it. And how do those

But can something be done code-wise that's incorporated in the zoning that they could look at and then bring forth something that's outside the boundary of whatever the code says? Can that be situated? Can we codify it so that only the exceptional comes here and not all of it?

SO WHAT IF WE, BECAUSE I DO AGREE WITH YOU, SO WHAT IF WE PUT SOMETHING IN HERE, RIGHT, YES, NOT ALL 10, THERE'S STANDARD, THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO, JUST APPROVE IT AND THEY'RE WAITING TWO HOURS FOR THE APPROVAL, RIGHT, IN THE ROOM, WHICH IS UNFAIR. BUT WHAT IF WE HAVE SOME WARNING IN THIS MEMO READING SOMETHING LIKE WHEN DEVIATING OR WHEN THE CONDITIONS ARE NOT ADDRESSING THE CODE, then they have to come to planning and zoning.

Yeah, I mean, what I was thinking is maybe this board could review one time what the rules are on a sign, and if we think they're sufficient, and as long as they meet the rules, then we're okay with them doing it. I would just like to know what they are, and we should all know what they are. And I would like to propose that, and I don't know, maybe this is a First Amendment thing, but we've seen a few signs over the years come in and try to capitalize on Bell Harbor and put Bell Harbor in their sign and I think that is a disservice to the branding of Surfside, so I don't know if we can...

I also agree with you in the sense that I think we're lacking code enforcement somehow. Not just in the commercial district but all around in general. And I bring it forth because the other day I was walking along the commercial. At one point there was a restriction on pharmacies And because Publix had a pharmacy and these, what is the other pharmacy that's closer to CVS, there was a distance issue. And only those two pharmacies were supposed to be, and that was the end of pharmacies for Surfside because of this rule of the distance. It appears like that rule is no longer in play.

There was a code change for that pharmacy.

Yes. I think it was just for that particular use, but we can...

I WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS CHANGE BECAUSE I AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK WE WANT MORE BUSINESS TO COME AND HAVE IT BE EASIER TO OPEN IN SURF SIDE BUT I WOULD LIKE IF THE BOARD WOULD BE INTERESTED TO REVIEW THE SIGN REQUIREMENTS AND THE AUNNING REQUIREMENTS AND THE FACADE. DO THEY HAVE TO REPAINT THOSE FACADES? JUST SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TO DO AS A SEPARATE FUTURE DISCUSSION ITEM NOT RELATED TO THIS

Correct, yeah. Thank you. Item nine, new business. I have a couple of new items here. That was the instruction, right? Excuse me? That was the way we were gonna proceed.

I would move to recommend to the town commission that we make the sign review an administrative review That's my motion.

So we close the public comments. Okay, now we have to make, now we can make them, we have to follow the rules, right?

What's that? I'll second the motion. Okay.

Any opposed? Motion carries. I'd also like to ask that we do put the signs and awnings and facades generally what the rules are for this board to review it sometime in the future so that we agree.

Probably for the next meeting. For the next meeting? Yeah. Let's do it for the next meeting, please. As a new business item. Okay. In my list, I have two things, something that caught my attention.

Oh, yeah, yeah, sorry. 80 placement, sorry. Item 80, placement of a discussion and potential action item on revisions to the 2026 design guidelines on the next agenda.

So now I open the floor to the public comments.

Thank you. So I'll close the floor for public before we close. Now we can we can. Yeah.

Some jurisdictions have gotten to the point where they've totally eliminated the design review process if a residence complies with those zoning criteria. It's because the design review is perceived as being very subjective. And in the realm of subjectivity and taste, somebody could love something and somebody else could hate it. So it becomes so subjective that for single family homes, they've moved away from having design review criteria unless you're proposing an industrial look that doesn't fit within the community and clearly doesn't fit the language, if you will, or the style that that c

Yeah, I mean, I think what you're saying is becomes a very binary decision. I think with a code, you either meet it or you don't.

So it's not subjective, which is exactly why we need the design guidelines, in my opinion. I think our role is to determine if something is compatible with the neighborhood. And the only way you can do that is by trying to articulate in a guideline what you believe is compatible and then rendering a decision on a design whether it meets those guidelines or not. I think without it, we should not be up here. I think our planning staff can determine yes or no it meets code and we shouldn't be up here. I think Surfside deserves a minimum standard of quality architecture. We get a lot of applicatio

And before I open the comments to public, again, to add some color to this discussion, right, we're counting on the code and current regulations are very clear, and sometimes they're not, opening a whole another situation if we don't have the design guidelines. So we have to think about that aspect as well, right? And I do agree that that is our tool to make sure that we are cohesive on what we want in town. Now, the problem that I see is when the design guidelines give you vague tools, right?

And when the design guidelines or any other instrument besides not being clear, opens to some lawsuits to town. So we have to be very careful on how we address this, right? We have to be very careful on the points that we're making here. Mr. Kosalos.

I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE REVISIT THE 2026 DESIGN GUIDELINES TO BE COMPLIANT WITH SB 180.

Yeah, and I think it will involve staff input first. I mean, you guys have a better understanding of SB180. Without question.

But just out of curiosity, SB180 is dealing more with the actual zoning code issues.

As opposed to matters of composition, color, palette.

Yeah, just to follow up through the chair. I mean, obviously we need to be compliant. I think we should revisit, because I don't remember all the specifics of the guidelines, but for example, I don't think it talks about FAR, which was one of the changes. It doesn't talk about... So we might be able to go through and there's not as much, just because it was passed, if it doesn't speak to the items that were.

I mean, in essence, it's called design review because we're talking about design. We're not talking about FAR, you know, how much pervious area. Those are things that belong in the planning side, in the zoning side. We're here to discuss the actual design and its benefits or its accolades or its, you know, running a range.

Well, to your point, we're talking about design guidelines. We're not talking about blah, blah, blah. This is design guidelines, right? So it's about design.

But in the design guidelines, you're talking about things that are not palpable, measurable, right?

So they need to be really tight so that feelings don't start to play a role in the discussion.

Yeah, I would just encourage us to go kind of point by point through, I mean, not tonight, but when we do get to this, through and just to see, because it's the more restrictive is the key, right? We can't be more restrictive. So, you know, it may be that there's 10% of this we have to remove or adjust, but the rest can stay or vice versa. I don't know.

And to be perfectly open about this, before they were approved, I had some comments. And in all honesty, I didn't have because of my work. I didn't have the opportunity to present those comments that I think enhance those design guidelines. And they address situations like some vague items or words that could imply some potential conflict between different interests. There are some items in there. The design guidelines are not bad. They can be improved.

Thank you very much. Let's move to new business, item number nine. No new business, I have two. I want, if possible, I want this board to consider whenever needed, it may be never, to consider special meetings when there are too many applications. That could be an item for discussion in the next meeting. And my second item for discussion is something that caught my attention. I would enforce one way or another, I don't know, but we're gonna discuss that, right? That all applications must comply with code before coming to us. Because I didn't understand why we have to include that in our commen

Let's not decide it tonight. Let's talk about it.

All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries.