Water Pollution Control Authority - Regular Meeting

I think I have everything set. I'd like to call the meeting to order. Um at 7:32 in attendance is uh Mary Dailyaly, Dennis Muzo, Ram McCarthy, Dimmitri Tachski. Sorry, Dolinski.

Dolchinski, Andrea, Lombard. Um is Brad up there? Oh, I'm sorry. Uh Brian. Uh Brad, are you on? I thought I heard Brad's voice. Um so let's see. I can appoint uh Brian uh as a voting member and John as a voting member. Yeah. And John as a voting member. Uh so we have a quorum. Uh first order of business is uh uh Andrea. Uh uh so I'm I'm sorry I've left some things off the agenda. Um I was on my way back and did this agenda. Um I was on my way back from dropping my daughter off at University of South Carolina and [snorts] did this at a rest stop and sent it out. So, there's a couple of things that are missing. Andrea, could you make a motion to add those, please?

Yes. Uh, so I'm making a motion to add to the agenda under old business, uh, the pumpout mailer and ordinance, the pumpout mailer card, and also the card for the notice of referendum. I think everything else, Steve, will fall under your report. Should it be a separate item or can we have a discussion with your report? Uh yeah, I think that the presentation I gave to the board I'll just do under my report. So I don't think we need it. All right. So my motion add those two um items. Do we have a second on that? Second. All in favor? I all oppose. Thank you.

All right. So the motion carries. So those two will be added under old business. Uh uh next on the on the agenda would be approval of the uh July 2025 minutes. Uh do I hear a motion to approve those minutes? A motion. Do I hear Is there a discussion? Discussion. Any discussion or Sure. Because the discussion usually it's not posted. Well, I just I'm just asking when does the discussion come in? Usually, usually though, no one ever does it, right? But usually you're supposed to have a motion to consider it. It's seconded, then there's discussion. Usually people discuss it and then there's a motion to second.

More discussion? No. Um, so I've been trying to uh follow that. So, uh, is there a second? Second. John seconded uh discussion, comments on the minutes. Uh, I tried to access the minutes this morning and when I go to the um minutes portion of the website, the town website comes up with the minutes from July 2019. 19 19 and I and I sent an email to Katie this morning. She might have fixed it because I was able to check right now. I didn't get an email back from her. So

I I was able to access it this afternoon. Um All right. Uh so uh I just have I'm sorry I didn't know. Go ahead. Okay. Thank you. So in the minutes you say that you were working on a PowerPoint presentation that you were going to send it out to everybody the WPCA members to review comment at the August meeting. What is going on? them. You all set now? Is that you? I'm just saying that in the minutes uh you said that you were working on a PowerPoint presentation. We'd send it out to every WPCA member to review and comment at this meeting. Did you send it out? Because if you did, I didn't get it.

I I did not send it out. I presented it to the board of selectmen. Okay. And they asked me to present it at this meeting. So, do you have copies for everyone here or I'm just going to present it like you're gonna do it online? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome.

Um, in the minutes again in regard there was mentioned in the minutes about the forgivable loan and when Dennis asked you uh are we 29.7? You know, there was there was this discussion going on about 29.7 versus 25%. Um this month it says 25% as does mailman's latest spreadsheet from grandma Russ O'Neal and deep said very clearly multiple times that the forgivable loan is capped at 15 million or 25%. So I I just need an understanding when you say that we're eligible for 29.7 how have you really have you read the forable loan because I haven't I've asked point of order here.

Yeah. Is that actually an edit to the minutes or is it just minutes? No. Is it an edit? No. But but approving the minutes is are the minutes accurate or not accurate. Okay. It's not about asking questions about the content. Okay. No, it's are the minutes accurate from last week until we have discussions. Yes. Because Yeah. I would say it's Yeah. bad information, but whatever. Is there any other comments on the minutes? the accuracy of the minutes. Okay. Can I have a motion uh to approve as as amended?

They weren't. I don't think we need to amend anything. Uh right. Yeah. Right. Right. Okay. Um can I have a motion to to approve, please? We have the motion. We just We had a motion. Yeah. We second it. Oh. Oh. All right. All in favor of approving the minutes. I indicate by saying I I all opposed. I abstain. Because I wasn't able to read it. I was not here. So I'm going to abstain. Also you're abaining.

You can abstain. Um theor technically you need a reason to abstain like a a conflict of interest or something like that. you you really shouldn't just abstain from the I guess my my reason for abstaining is I think there's pertinent information missing from the minutes that was in the discussions but that would be my reason okay

that would have been like something you could have brought up to amend the minutes but okay fine um one two three don't pass is that right one two Dimmitri Three, four, three. I got here. I see Brian. Thank you, Ryan. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. I just want to make sure you got up your board.

Yeah. Uh, I guess I can vote to approve. Is that right? Eight voting, right? Including you. Uh, seven voting. One, two, three, four. Four. I guess it's four to three then, right? There's eight people. One, two, three. I don't know how abstensions count. I honestly don't know. It's not a no. It's not a no, but it's not a yes. They Yeah, I think if you don't agree with the minutes, it should be opposed. It shouldn't be abstaining because you were here for it, right? I wasn't here, so I'm here.

And I couldn't get to the minutes on the website. So um so it passes four to two three extensions right actually had that um part time hard time passing. All right. Uh next on the agenda is the chairman's report. I'll start off with the CSA update. Um, we're getting closer. Uh, budget. Did you skip or did

Oh, I'm sorry. I I'm sorry. We have a I'm sorry. Thank you. Um, budget and expenses. The next thing on the agenda is budget and expenses. Andrea, do you want to take us through that? Could you unmute her?

Can't hear. Hold on. I can't. Andrea, can you unmute yourself? She's unmuted. She's muted. No, she's Thanks. Thanks, Andrea. Can you unmute yourself, Andrea? She's still muted. Andrea, you're muted. She's trying the right button. It's up top top right corner. Does this help? There you go. Can you Can you hear me? Okay. Yes, we can. We can hear you.

Okay. Perfect. All right. Um I had two places to do that. [clears throat] Okay. Um the expenses for this past month were $11158 for the clerk. Um I want to recap that at this point um our expenses for the year have are reflecting $32,965.34 but we used up $26,55724 in carryover which was legal and the shared infrastructure. So, I I think it's important to note that because year to date we spent um $59,63416 total. Um so, our legal budget has been um our largest expense by far. Our remaining balance for the year is $54,966. And uh wait a minute, there's um and the apa balance. This is for the pipe under Route 156, the shared infrastructure. we have a remaining $150,34325 in that budget line. Um, and I'm also reviewing any past invoices um that Martha was able to send my way to see if we can get any of those covered with the clean water funds during the planning phase of this sewer

project. Any questions about the budget or the report? Andrea, when you said the year, you're talking from July 1st.

So, it's the fiscal year that we had. So, our our annual budget that we had submitted and approved was $91,158, but we also had $26,55724 in carryover, which we completely zeroed out. So, at this point, um, our remaining balance, because it it seems like we spent less than we did, um, is $54,966. I I

and and our largest remaining um area is um we still have plenty to spend on the attorneys because the legal was our largest by far expense this year. But again, it's it's Andrea, it's it starts July 1st. It does, right? Our fiscal our fiscal year starts July 1st, right? and we did not put in for carryover um because we had spent so much in our

carryover last year and it the way they're doing it this year is it has to be part of a capital project in order to go for carryover. So we're preparing for next year's budget. Right. All right. though I I I I have a feeling that Go ahead.

I have a feeling that that things weren't we should have our our budget request from last year should have been the starting point on July 1st of this year. I don't think we've spent 40 something,000 in attorney's fees since July 1st, have we? So, we spent $6,856.50 in carryover and out of our But is that from July 1st?

Uh, yes. And then plus that we spent $1,986.50. So, we spent almost uh $10,000 so far. Yes. since July 1st of of of this budget year. Okay.

The hardest thing to track is legal because we don't always know anything that has to do with the WPCA. anything related to the selectman's office, the board of selectmen, our work. If there's any use of legal related to the WPCA, it comes under our budget. So, just a question on that, Andrea, or I'm not sure it should be directed to. Last month, we had there was um I think it was last month you brought up there was a $20,000 outstanding legal fee. Yes.

And should we pay it out of the general fund or roll it into the 17.1? What was the decision on that? That that decision hasn't been made yet. We have enough money to to start covering that, but the conversation was clean water funds could carry that in the design phase of the project. So, we're waiting for some guidance from the clean water fund on how to do that. So, in general, do you know how much we have spent on legal on the sewer project?

I believe pretty much all of our legal this year has been spent related to that. So, it was roughly around $10,000. And in 2020 in the fiscal year 2024 um I don't have that in front of me. Okay. Maybe we can get you can get that for the next meeting. I can get whatever money I Yeah. Any budget related send that out or send that out to the rest of us and and then I'd be curious as to what is decided with the $20,000 outstanding legal. Right. I that's that's with our bond attorney. Is that correct? Yes. Andrea. Yeah. So that those are usually uh rolled into the note.

It's like when you have closing costs with an attorney on So that's $30,000 so far in legal for this project. Oh, we've spent far more than that. Okay. Oh, far. Yes, we have spent more than that. And that will all be rolled into the note. No. So Mary, when you ask Mary, that's what I'm trying to clarify. You're mixing up so the the $20,000 that is for the bond would usually is rolled into the note because it's his fee is is creating is is is what is creating that bond. Okay. All right. Everything else has been covered by the general fund of the town. Okay.

And will not be rolled into anything. It's paid out of the general fund. Thank you for clarifying. You had I think you So I have a question for you, Mary, because I'm not clear. It could be.

So Mary, I do have a question for you. We have been um having legal fees related to the last 10 to 12 years on this project. At one point, we had an attorney attend every meeting and we're like, "Well, let's not do that. It's too expensive." So, I could go back, right? I mean, I I Are you asking me to go back from like anytime a document goes through the town, it gets reviewed by legal? So, I'm not really clear on how to answer your question. What is it that you're asking me to provide? I guess what what I was looking for is what has been spent to date on legal for the sewer project whether it's rolled into the and then the distinction between what is being rolled into the 17.1 meeting back to the sound view homeowners versus what portion of legal expenses is being picked up by by the general tax base

and and so yes I think okay I think I heard something what what are you going today you're went from 1988 till now. No, but you you have to say a date. Okay. because we get we get through this is is we we need and again I'm going to go and Jim's on the phone and and um we need to we we need to put a line in the sand say I want to know what's been spent from this date to this date from 2015 when this

project so Mary the town only carries invoices for three years per statute so it's a it's kind I mean I I can go back as far I can do it while I was treasurer but I can go back as far I will try to honor that why don't we just put why don't we just put a request into Anita to supply Mary that you it we're volunteers here we have we have professionals that that should be able to go back to 2015 and create but I have another question

what is considered what is considered legal for this project versus legal for the WPCA to function. We're responsible to to adhere to state law. So getting an IMA agreement with New London, is that is is that fee to the project or is it part of our duty as as a WPCA to go out and get that agreement? Um, I think the most relevant information is how much legal is going to be rolled into the note because that's what affects sound view. What's what's been spent in in legal is is could could all be viewed as a function of us functioning as a group and not necessarily on the project. So please define we should define what you really want to go back 10 years to find out how much money was I wouldn't put I wouldn't put uh Lord's bills in with the project he was here just to attend meetings. Yeah, I agree.

Right. So I then you don't know where you know we spent money on legal for other things beside the project. It's not categorized um anywhere except the last three years where they I guess have maintained the invoices. Is that correct Andrea? Yeah. Um can we ask the purpose of of the question? That might help to clarify how much as legal is spent that will be rolled over to sound view. Oh, how's that? Okay, that's easier. That's an easier question. Okay. Okay, great. Thank you.

Sure. I very happy to do that. I'll do that for the next meeting. Um, this is great. I love having questions. Any other questions? All right. So, please accept that um report as presented. Thank you, Andrea. Yep.

All right. The the chairman's report. Uh so, uh CSA update. Uh we're getting closer. Uh the town attorney and at least one if not both attorneys representing the beach associations are meeting on August 18th uh to review all the comments and hopefully uh uh finalize the CSA agreement for signature. Um they've been forwarded comments from people that have responded. uh they've incorporated them and uh I don't think we're far apart. Uh I just think that they have to do their due diligence and represent uh the beach associations versus the town. But I believe that there'll be an agreement uh a rough an agreement to to finalize that agreement on August 19th. um sue a project status. Uh basically NBA has uh moved their bid to August 19th. Uh so we'll know then uh their numbers. Uh it won't affect our numbers at all. Um it is an internal uh project so it's not going to matter. All I'm sure uh has committed to going out to bid. I don't have their schedule, but uh everything was authorized at a board of governor's meeting last week. Um they are going to uh follow the uh DEP uh milestones and put their job out to bid before September uh uh 30th. Um referendum status. the uh board of selectmen have decided to move the

referendum uh back uh several weeks. Um I don't even have the actual dates in writing. Uh but it's basically two weeks. I believe my town meeting has changed to the 19th. Maybe maybe later. I don't I I I need a a a written thing telling me these dates, but part of their reasoning is that they wanted to know Miami Beach's results prior to my giving my presentation. Um, and that was the presentation meeting, theformational meeting. So, uh, I'm going to give anformational meeting and, uh, theformational meeting I said I would also review with you. who I gave it to the board of selection last Monday. Um I will uh now present what I presented to them as well as uh go through some of the questions that were asked that I will be hopefully consolidating and summarizing but the raw answers will be online. So let me go to uh the president. Could you please provide me with the questions you'd like me?

Sorry. Um, so, uh, if you Oh, uh, let's see. What did they tell me to do here? Uh, slide.

Yeah. Where is that? Oh, there it is. All right. So, uh, this is the title sheet. Securing OLAM's future WPCA sewer system referendum proposal presented by the OAM WPCA. The overview is uh why the sewer project matters, existing funding status, why an increase is necessary, economic, environmental, and public health impact. What 17.1 million will achieve. Benefits to the community. It protects groundwater in Long Island Sound. It increases property values. enables homeowners to improve their property without worrying about sept septic system constraints and it reduces public health risk. I could probably also put on there it it conforms to DEP administrative order but those are the benefits current system challenges uh aging septic systems in the shoreline neighborhoods environmental risks to the Long Island Sound. rising groundwater contamination concerns, regulatory compliance requirements from DEP. Uh, I've been asked to to revise this uh graph to make it a little more uh probably easier to understand and a little moreformational, but the blue is the original. Uh, that was $9.5 million. We're asking uh for additional funding uh which is the red of 7 uh6 million for a total of 17.1 million.

And the purple would be 8.55 million, which is 50% of the uh of the eight uh of the 17.1 million. I included this link. Um I'll I'll include this as a as an actual paper, but this is uh Fussen O'Neal sent this to us uh to me. um unedited. Uh it is there summary of the projects and if you look at sound view um the funding portion of it is 8 million $554,000 after they've included all their expenses and and items uh over here such as contingency, internal escalation, legal and admin, eligible engineering. Um, all those fees are included and or some are I don't know what this one is here that's zeroed legal and admin. Um, so that's so they they came up with $8.554 million. And I I included this in there because uh uh because this is the the one that I have uh developed and shown since June 1st of this year. and I came out with $8,532,000. So there's a difference between the two of about uh uh 20 $1,000 uh between the two over $17.1 million.

So uh I'm sure fuss O'Neal has included uh uh things that I may not have like interimm financing. Um but in general uh the amount being financed is going to be about $8.55 million um as I had uh indicated earlier. And if you divide that by 200 if you do a yearly payment at 2% the payment is 521,7947 $79541. You divide that by 269 edus, you come up with $1,939.76 uh per year per edu for 20 years. Um

can I point out something or should I if it deals with this this you might as well point it out. Yeah. Okay. First of all, when you look at plus, so we have a cap of 15 million, right? On the forgivable loan, it's capped at there's a cap of 15 million. Yes. Right. Their total here is so tiny. It exceeds that amount. It's 15,186,125. Okay.

Okay. So, that's not I mean, is that what we're going to get or 15 million? We're going to get 29.7% of I I of of $15 million. I would if we're going to use all of the $15 million, we're going to get 29.7% of that. Okay. I'm glad you brought that up because um plus O'Neal sheet it says 25%. And I thought clean water, not clean water pumps, but um the forgivable LD has consistently said they would finance 15 million or 25% of the project. 25%

of the project of the project up to 15 million.

Yes. Not 29.7 for us. They said 25% of the project. 25% of the whole soul. Okay, I've explained this probably last three meetings. The way the deep has has structured these loans is that they are going to break that $15 million based on percentages in the CSA. So you guys question why we're paying 29.7%. Um I've explained that okay

it's part of the 270 edus over the total edus when the loan when the when the construction is done the D is going to take the percentages in the CSA and roll whatever is in that loan or or whatever is remaining on that note into each individual infrastructure. So five nodes, four individual WPCAS and the shared infrastructure note will become four notes our internal infrastructure and 29.7% of whatever is left. We will get 29.7% of that $15 million.

Okay. Thank you. Um I'm just saying that in reference to this sheet, this paper, President O'Neal has it as 25% across the board. then they're wrong. Okay. I'm just saying since you're referencing this so far, there's two errors here. I didn't I didn't reference it. Up on the board. I I showed it as as a check to my numbers. I'm not saying they're correct. I'm saying I'm saying we're both correct. Two people with two different methods have come within 21 million uh $21,000 out of a 17.1 million project.

Okay. Thank you. I'm just pointing out what's on this paper from the All right. So is your suggestion that I not show that? No, I'm suggesting that there can only be one answer. I have Mary. I have answered you. I've told you the structure of the note. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Steve. You did all I write about it. I'm asking because it's on the paper that you presented to the selectment on Monday. All right. So, I I appreciate that comment. I if it causes confusion, I think I'll take it out of my presentation.

Can I can I just divest myself right now? Is there any reason why we don't have a a printed copy in front of us? because I do it on computer. No. Can you can you pulse the town of town of old line to print it? It's a It's on It's online. This is Yeah. And then I have to print it. Yeah. Okay. And it's not online. The Your presentation was not online. The last presentation was 22. It It's online. I saw it today. Dennis, is it at the WPCA site? No, it's on the board of select

or selectman. Yeah, it's on the board of selectman site. Dennis, it could you go to the town hall? Maybe Michelle or Katie could print you a copy. You're you're you're missing the point though. I'm not I heard what you said. Yep. I'm sorry. The point is is we're here and we're looking at a screen instead of a piece of paper. [clears throat] Okay, just one last comment on this on the other thing here. Um, for sound view area, it has zero for legal, but we just said there's expect we're expecting $50,000 for council.

Uh, well, I think 20 has been spent, right? I would not be surprised if it's 40, maybe 50. I don't know. at select 50 was your expectation. Okay. All right. I'm just trying to help you get these numbers. So, uh that that 50 is rolled into the $17.1 million on there on mine.

Maybe we should show a pie chart. where we have the four WPCAS and show our percent. Maybe that would help because as I'm listening to this conversation, it's confusing when you see a percentage without seeing the bigger piece. Would that help, do you think? I'm trying to find 50,000 on here. So, Mary, would it help if we had a pie chart and

we could show Well, that's where we could show where the 29.7% comes from and it would show the percentage the other uh WPCAS will be responsible for per the CSA and then uh my opinion it doesn't matter if somebody wants to do that. Well,

as an aside, the 29.7's been since I've joined the committee, it's been there forever. That's the sound view portion. I I I guess again I'm I'm going to raise a comment and hopefully Jim is a selectman will get this. Um on a $17 million project, it's crazy to argue over $20,000. It's going to go up and down. I I don't know why we waste time on this. I mean, it's going to go. It's insignificant on

on a seven on this size of a project. We're going to have a variance like that. I've been in business forever. Again, if we could get it within $100,000, that's great. Again, I think there's been way too much time spent arguing over pennies and and and going over cents. it are we in the right direction and I guess I'll also note the 29.7% is only of the shared infrastructure correct

so that's you know just one line item compared to the cost for the sewer system installation there's a 5% contingency there's almost um on the shared infrastructure there's almost a million dollar contingency on our on our so that's 300 to uh basically $300,000. Um on our internal there's a contingency of $427,600 and we're talking about $20,000. Well, $50,000, right?

No, no, I've already we've already accounted for the 20. We've actually already accounted for the 50, but we we when we came up with 17, it was 17.04 something, I think, and we rounded it to 17.1 million as a request to include the $50,000, but it it's not shown here because it was done after the the uh it was done during the vote actually. But, uh, the contingency on on on a project, a $400,000 contingency on this project is a lot of money because there's you don't just get change orders because you want them. There has to be a change in conditions from what was in on the drawings. And there's nothing in that road that's actually going to to elicit that. I don't believe if there is, it's not going to be much. Um that that's I mean that's all I can say based on my 40 years of experience in this in this business. Um there is not as well as the changes that we're making to encapsulate the the pipe where we're expecting um hundreds of thousands of dollars of savings. I do not believe that we will even spend the 17.1 million, but they're in there just in case. So

when you talk about the savings for the changes that Jeep has allowed in regard to um wells, right? I can see that benefiting Miami Beach. Mhm. But our bid has already been out there. We're going to change it. You're going to change the bid. No, we're going to change We're going to write a We're going to request the contractor to provide a credit for not doing that work and using the new method that that's been You think he's going to agree with that? I'm just asking is that how how things will

he has to it would be called it would be called if he doesn't agree to it would be called a field directed change order they would have to perform it and they would have to go to arbitration uh to determine a fair price or what I've never seen a contractor go that direction because uh they usually will negotiate a fair and reasonable price for the savings that they're going to make and not get hurt by the change order. And it's usually accepted by the engineer. Um, but there in the contract that we have, which is probably 500 pages long, there's a whole section that you can read about how this would work. And they the project doesn't stop because you can't agree on on what a change order is worth. You just get directed by the engineer to do it. And they have the right per contract to do that. And then you fight over the price later. So, expenses not included in the assessment fees. Connection charges to New London. Uh $712,819.71 financed at 2.625% over 20 years is equal to $16,953 per year per EDU. Connection charges to East Line $272,000 uh $1049 financed at 2% over 20 years equals $61.13

per year per EDU total connection charges per EDU per year $2306. uh we decided to to include those connection charges based on this document called methods of capital cost recovery on water pollution control projects stated January 1997. I went on the DP website to look for new and improved uh methods of capital cost recovery on water pollution control projects. in their latest and greatest is January 1997. So this is the latest guide in here. It says a connection charge referenced in CSG7255 may be levied at the time of connection with the sewer and is generally in addition to the benefit assessment connection charges.

They basically two forms. The first, which exists while the debt for the sewer is still active, generally covers the municipal cost of processing a permit to connect, including the inspection of the connection. The second, which is usually occurs after the capital debt for the sewer has been paid off, covers both permit processing costs and lumpsum payment in lie of a benefit assessment. In the latter case, the funds collected in lie of the benefit assessment are available for use. any capital costs within the existing or proposed municipal sewage system. [snorts] So this is a guide by the Department of Environmental Protection because it's that old. Um but it it tells what what uh is you know how are assessments determined you know uh front footage, lot size, property value, flow proportion, general taxation. Um, you know, it gives information on which towns do fixed charges. Most most do a a combination of different methods to figure out what their formulas are going to be, but in all cases, it's the WPCA that's done that. Um, we've done uh this year. So, uh, is that federal or state? This is state. It's a states Connecticut D. You just look it up on the D website. Methods of capital cost recovery. User fees per EDU. User fees will be comprised of all costs necessary to properly operate and maintain the system and will be split between internal infrastructure 100% and shared infrastructure 29.7%. Fees will include electricity by oxide purchase, land rental, taxes, grounds

maintenance, annual inspections, insurance, third party O& and M company, and any other incidentals. From the previous slide, $23066 will be for connection fees to East Line in New London. Another $18.34 per edu will be set aside for a maintenance fund per the London IMA. User fees per edu continued at 300 gallons per day for 12 weeks and 150 gallons per day for 40 weeks. New London usage fee is $168 per year. At an estimated yearly flow of 6,000 uh 6,495,000 for all of old line, anticipated usage cost is $25,614. Um I can show everyone the Eastline IMA. This calculation came right from them. uh O line WPCA is responsible 29.7% or $7,67 uh or $28.18 per year. Uh line WPC will also be responsible for for 6534% 29.7% of 2.2% of the east line and.5% of New London capital improvements. This is equal to 2420 and$1851 respectively per $1 million which will most likely be financed over 20 years at 2%. Um East Lime is going if East Lime upgrades they're most likely going to finance it through CWF funding. If New London does they will also do the same. It's going to be a 20-year at 2% um unless that

percent goes up, but it has been 2% for years. Um and it hasn't gone up. So, uh minimum expected minimum expected user fees is $38252 plus the other incidentals. Now, um, the D has estimated our user fees and they will be forwarding that to me. And they came up with, I think, $430 uh, per .edu. I'd like to look at it and see it, but they marked out insurance. I don't know what insurance is going to be. I I mean, I don't know what insurance is going to be. I don't know what the electric bill is going to be. I don't know any of that. But as I said before, and I think it was misinterpreted, Pointer Woods spends $520 per year per edu. Their system is very similar to ours. They have actually two pump stations. I thought they had four. Someone said they had two. Um uh whether they have users, lots of users, or very few users, they have 450 users. um their total cost divided by $450 is $520 per year.

Does that include their connection fees, their contractual fees or is that they don't have any? They don't have any. So it's just that's their true user cost without connection fees. Correct. Okay. Well, I guess. Okay. So, if you're estimating their user fee is $4500. Did you just say that's what they said? without connection without the contractual fees. [snorts] So question. Yeah. So in 20 years that like $200 and something dollars no longer be part of that correct user fee. Correct.

All time. expenses paid out of all general fund and not being passed on to end users. Uh the onetime buying deposit into the IMA with New London, that was $10,000. That's that was uh paid for by general fund money reimbursement to the BA Beach association's WPCA's for their cost to develop IMA with East Line. That was we paid $66,69 which was equal to 29.7% of the total cost of that reimbursement for CWF uncovered expenses to the BAW WPCA's. Uh that was approved last year, last fiscal year by this WPCA of $39,245. And again, that's 29.7% of those costs. All legal fees in developing the IMAS and CSAs, assessors reports, special testing, etc. All those have come out of our general fund. Um, and they will not be being passed on to end users. uh put this slide in there because I think there's a lot of confusion about uh Richendas's statement in the day uh back in I guess that's supposed to be 2021. Um but I asked all the beach associations to give me what they've spent uh on this project. Um the shared infrastructure was 1,91,000. I'm rounding these numbers off. You can read them. The old line shores was 666. Miami Beach was 696. Old old line colony old colony was 571

and old line was 615. Um out of pocket expenses and that's estimated um I did that by dividing what what we've spent. um in in uh what we reimburse divide by uh 297% uh comes up with $400,000 or so. So the total was4,47,630 uh which is close to 4.1 million. Um, so those so when Rich made that statement, these are the numbers he was referring to that had certainly nothing to do with the O line WPCA or the town of O line spending $4.1 million. Um, you know, over the past 10 years in order to spend that, our budget would have had to been $400,000 a year and we certainly haven't had that type of budget.

So I think everybody understood it was all the beach associations. We're just trying to pair down of the 4.1 million, what portion of that would sound view and area B be responsible for or if not, what portion of that was paid by the town? So if it's 1 million, it's 29% of that. 30% would be 300,000 plus uh the 615 plus 30% let's say of the 46,000 which is no no out of pocket was already paid for. Okay.

We've already paid for that out of the general fund. out of the general fund and the top shared infrastructure that 1.91 million 911,000 would some view would have to pay about 30,000 of that or or whatever 30% of it huh about 300,000 300,000 I don't see that in your spreadsheet and then that's why I'm asking oh because my spreadsheet includes all of that under engineering and design the money the money being spent the money being spent is is that's design that was for design of that system. Okay.

Thank you for that. So because the the what you told me before under um engineering that's payable to um Woodward and Curran, right? Not to Noi or anybody else. That's just Woodward and Current. No, the internal infrastructure which is anything gravity in Sound View in area B is Wood and Current, right? We pay 100% of that, right? Less less the the matching funds. That's what this engineering this 856 is. Goes to Woodward and Curran. That 856 is for contract administration to

Woodward and Cur to Woodward and Cur. Thank you. the the engineering and design and the infrastructure 1.6 million 1.6 6 million goes to FO goes to F O'Neal right and somewhere there's accounting of what other expenses have incurred which old colony is managing but will be portioned back to us. There's this is from the state repeat. It has pretty much every everything that you can

Oh, great. Uh, see, it's a it's a current accounting of any money being spent. This is what they gave me. This is all I'm shor's internal infrastructure. I'm not going to give you a copy of that. I won't give you a copy of that. I won't give you a copy of that. They're really not mine to give. Those are all internal infrastructures for them. Um, I will give you a copy of that. Thank you. Anybody else? How we get to make copies? No. No one. I'll just send them out via email.

Okay. People never want them. Just ask. Okay. Are you sharing your screen? If you're sharing your screen, it could actually be kind of recorded. I didn't I don't uh Yeah, I'm uh You're sharing your screen right now, but it's not. You are. Okay. I just didn't see it up there. Thanks. So, that's that's how those numbers were developed on the last sheet. Oh, it's not an ice cream. It's not.

No. uh why the increase is necessary inflation impact 40 to 50% rise in construction materials costs from pre-COVID to postcoid the original estimates were developed by the engineering groups over a decade ago and assumed a steady 2% inflation rate and did not anticipate a period of hyperinflation who pays for this project initially the project is being funded through D using CWF funds. This is a revolving program which funds are lent out for construction and then repaid by the users. In most cases, the WPCA will assess each property owner based upon the edu system that was developed by its governing WPCA. Each property owner has the right to pay their loan back over 20 years at 2% interest. It is the intent of old line WPCA to have the end users pay for the cost of this project. Oline WPCA is requesting higher spending authority, though the amount being financed is still under the original referendum amount of $9.5 million due to state matching funds. Um, a property owner could pay, I guess, the the money up front, the assessment is, they could take it out and pay it if they'd want. Um, but they have the right to pay it out at 2%. Finance it up 2% 20 years. What happens if it doesn't pass? Well, we have risk of EPA D fines most likely to be issued with a consent order from D instructing sewers to be installed. We will most likely lose the 25% forgivable

loan portion. Um delays will increase the costs over time and continued environmental and property risk. Next steps. Now these dates have changed. Um but the dates have changed but I've already presented to the BOS. I believe I'm going to have to go back to the BOS maybe. Um [clears throat] it goes to the board of finance for a vote. Um there's an informal meeting uh where it's going to be this presentation. There's a town meeting in which the town will vote to either go to referendum or not go to referendum. And then there's a referendum vote. The referendum vote uh will be not at the center school be at the middle school. It'll be between the hours of 12 noon and 8:00 p.m., but I don't know the date yet. Absentee ballots will be made available. So, uh, those are the next steps. And in conclusion, uh, a $17.6 million investment now secures $17.1 million in infrastructure. Uh it will protect our environment, health, and property values and long-term savings for South View and area B residents. Then there's question and answers. And since uh the board of selectmen offered to have questions after the presentation, um I have answered them. they've been posted, but I'll go through through the questions that were asked, try to answer them. Um, I'm only here six months. Why so why do I have to pay this amount of

money uh that the year round people do? Shouldn't that be broken down? Um, and I reply there are two aspects to the cost. There's assessment fees and there are user fees. The assessment is based on edu um which we have a formula to figure out uh what your assessment will be. Um, and it's a benefit assessment. It's it's based on um basically the amount of money that uh your house increases because sewer goes through it. Um and then there are user fees which will be based on uh usage. Um the first two years it will be based uh on our .edu uh because we need data. uh we might be able to uh move that up but after two years it will be solely based on usage. Um someone said I think the numbers uh need to be defin need to be definitely before down I probably means definitely definitely known maybe before we have a referendum on anything. Um I replied that the town of Lime held a referendum when the only available numbers were estimates. Today we have every number that will be included in sound view and area B costs. Internal infrastructure plus shared infrastructure bids have been received. A distraction to moving forward is the question of whether Miami Beach and Olime Shores will get responsive bids. And if they don't, it would affect Olim's percentage of the shared cost, thus raising the cost for EDU. WPCA response is that the figures provided that lead to a request of a total expenditure of 17.1 million with 8.55 million being financed and 8.5 being granted. Uh I'm sorry that's incorrect. it's not 8 point being financed and being granted is that if

any other entity currently expected to be in the shared infrastructure does not participate we would need to go back out to referendum as there would not be enough spending authority so if Miami Beach or alline shores doesn't come in our percentage does rise and we don't have enough money to do the project I'd have to go back out to referendum again it's I mean that's we're not as we're We're this this guarantees the referendum guarantees that all four members will be in it because if they're not, we don't have enough money in our budget to do the project. Where's the oversight of the WCA? Where's that plan? Uh I believe this process is part of the oversight of the WPCA. We hold regular meetings in which the first selectment is usually present. We publish minutes to all our meetings and present to the BOS in public when requested or when we believe it is necessary. This process has been ongoing for over a decade. And while some may not like the direction sewers and with it was the WPCA's last resort after presenting alternate waste disposal ideas that were not accepted by the D. The plan is to follow D direction until otherwise requested by town leadership. How is the money managed? Basically for the WPCA, the WPCA requests a budget each year and presents those requests to the board of select and board of finance. From the budget, we spend funds for different line items such as Harmony, our septic tank, pumping, inspection software, testing, attorney's fees, etc. The budget and order of funds spent are available in the town report each year. Please include the other expenses that each household would pay. I'm not quite sure exactly what you are requesting, but I'll give it a shot. The household will have to pay user fees, which I

itemized the best I could in my presentation. The D has offered to provide me their estimate for user fees, which was around $450. I am awaiting their email, but that was conveyed to me verbally. In addition, I offered the figure of $520 per year for Point of Woods household expenses. I believe it's safe to say that Sound View and Area B residents will pay approximately $500 per year for user fees, though this could be this could vary based on usage. Other costs associated with hooking up to sewers is hiring a contractor to install the lateral from the household property line to the house and then abandoning the existing septic system. I have spoken to several contractors that indicate an average home in Sound View in area B would be around $4 to $5,000. Those are the only other costs besides the assessment that I can think of. We have to think about inflation. We have to think about hyperinflation because we have tariffs to deal with now and a lot of I know a lot of materials come from Canada. What could these additional costs be? There's contingency built into the budget itself to account for unknowns. This question is requesting I predict what pricing will be in three months time. If I could do that, I would be a commodities trader. I can't tell you what, if any additional costs will be, but I can tell tell you with a high degree of confidence that we have enough in the budget to address the above situation if necessary. Uh, the other thing I'm not supposed to talk about is why we can't have separate systems. Most of the systems in Sound View are nonconforming, meaning they do not comply with current health department septic standards for one reason or another. I have never told anyone they can't talk about having a separate system. What I do try to stress

is that the OMW WPCA proposed several alternate systems to sewers and the DP did not accept them. After discussion with our engineers, it became clear that the only system the DEP would accept was sewers. We discussed fighting that outcome, but felt in the long to run much money would be spent fighting a system that we would most likely end up installing. The presentateation states, for example, 300 gallons, 12 weeks, and the amount calculated was $38,252. But there were exclusions, and I don't know what the exclusions are. So, how much could those exclusions be? I don't believe the presentation excluded CL costs. I believe the presenter me stated that those costs could be so varied that I did not want to go on record quoting something that could vary any large degree from actual costs then being accused of misleading the public. I offer pointer woods user fee as a good approximation of what ours will be since they have a bioide system and several pump stations and their user fee is per household. I do not think that because they have 450 homes and and combined we have 99 homes uh will vary the cost per household by much as I think point of woods is a valid representative sample. The other thing is this $1.158 billion was already spent from the general funds and so we are not obligated as people who are expecting sewers to pay for that. Correct. Thus far, the OMW WPCA has financed $615,200 from CWF funds and 29 at at 29.7% of and 29.7% of 1.91 million 1.091 091 million which is derived from our internal

infrastructure together totaling $939,315 and are paid back at 2% over 20 years. Once the sewers are installed, these design notes will be incorporated into construction notes that line would be re responsible in the 8.5 million 55 million being financed. Any other expenditures by the O line WPCA have come from the general fund which is funded by the taxpayers and old line. What was calculated for you know sewer exploration? Um why were other systems explored? I it probably said why weren't other systems explored but um the questions the questions here were give were provided to me by a transcript from the board of selectment. So, I'm just I I didn't touch the questions. I just real high answers underneath. The OM WPCA spent funds from its general fund budget that looked into other alternatives besides sewers. We propose we proposed various single septic systems as well as a community leeching field design that would have been located at the abandoned cherry stones. The DEP did not accept any proposal that we presented and indicated that they believed sewers were the only long-term least expensive solution. Perhaps the old WBCA should have fought back, but at the time sewers were in favor of town leadership and we were requested to investigate installation of sewers. Alternate systems explored with all that $1 million that was spent. I did hear Mr. harder give a presentation and not nothing was done after it. Why not? The online WPC is under an administrative order by the D to continue along the path of installing sewers. I also listened to Mr. Potter and he admitted it was probably too late in the game to propose alternates

besides sewers and that Oline WPCA should have fought more diligently against the D stance. I'm not sure what the $1 million figure refers to unless it is our share of sewer design. The shared infrastructure is over a million dollars. How much of that is going to be paid by WPCA line or the residents and then other out-ofpocket costs? The online WPCA is responsible through through the CSA to pay 29.7% of the final cost after grants of forgivable loans. As of today, I do not know of any outstanding out-of- pocket costs that would be levied on end users. Is that money going to be divided among us in the beaches? If that money is referring to funding for the shared infrastructure, yes. Well, Colony Beach Club is the administrator and guarantor of the shared infrastructure loan. While they will administer the loan, the D will fold each member's percent based on CSA of the outstanding loan for shared infrastructure into each individual WPCA's internal infrastructure loan. Is that amount that was spent calculated in the total cost of the residents? Yes. All outstanding costs have been included in all calculations that have been presented by the O line WPCA. In addition, the per edu cost includes financing at 2% over 20 years. I concerned about the capacity in the London. I did see the article also about the expansion that East Lime is proposing and the expansion costs were 50 million or so. What's that going to cost us in the future? And is the system going to accommodate our sewage? The D license to New London affords New London an additional 300 gallons of capacity once OMI and the other PAS hook in. This was specifically done to ensure that New London would maintain capacity for O line and the beach associations. While a

request was made, nothing has ever been even been discussed by New London. And even if it were to be decided to increase capacity, it wouldn't happen for at least another decade by the time studies, permitting, plans, and construction was undertaken. That being said, I calculated 42.71 per million dollars per .edu financed at 2% over 20 years. So, if it's 50 million, I guess that's $2,000 or $2,200 in change uh financed over 20 years or 2%. I'm concerned about the referendum when the status of other bids are not in yet, and I do not know what the bottom line is for my property. I do have a lot that has nothing on it and is included with two other lots and I want to know if it is going to be billable as a building lot or not. The status of all bids that will affect the WPCA referendum request are in. We know them and have based our calculations on them. Miami Beach and all shores numbers will not affect our numbers. I do not know the property of which you refer, but the edu formula assesses any empty lot that would be deemed buildable after sewers 10,000 square ft and above. How have empty lots been clarified at WPCA? Are the empty lots are or buildable lots? The line WPCA has categorized any buildable lot i.e. 10,000 square ft and above as an accessible lot since once sewers go past, they'll be eligible to be built on according to our zoning. Is there a possibility you might be able to put out a list for each residents so that we know what our .edu calculations are? Could it be put on our website? We

will place the formula sheet that Mary Daly and Dennis Muluso developed and upon which the entire Oline WPCA voted on the website. The 29.7% of the sound view people are responsible for is a concern of mine. If there's four entities why I think we are a relatively smaller group paying 29%. It's like you know almost a third. I just don't know where that number comes from and I'm concerned that we are paying more than our fair share. Again, it wasn't clear to me in my presentation why. I know we are paying 29%. But I just don't know why. Um, I didn't want this referendum uh presentation to go into uh a lot of the history of of how we've answered this question, but uh you know maybe maybe I will uh include something but this is the answer. The 29.7% represents 270 edus, the number of edus in sound view divided by the total number uh 99 edus in the entire shared system. The edus were determined by the engineering firms that developed the original EIE studies. Since then, each ownership percentage has been codified in the CSA document that was signed by the BAS line WPCA and the town of Old Line. When I look at these numbers, it says 31,681 as we heard today. I calculated out to 38,000 with interest. Anyway, the 31,681 you are asking about old colony which is very very similar in the number of houses and empty lots were almost identical. Their .edu on here is 38. So,

I asked how we are $6,000 more per EDU than old colony to start with. Uh, if you take $1,936 and multiply it by 20, you come up with $38,720. So, I do not know where the $31,681 figure came from. It certainly was not a number in the presentation. Old Colony has almost no mixed use nor commercial property to account for versus Sound View. I do not know what the 38 and 6,000 uh dollar figures are coming from as I did not perform a comparison between Old Colony and Sound View. If we have 270 EDUs, how can we justify that some properties are three EDUs and yet 70% of our homes are only one .edu? Per the formula that Mary Daly and Dennis Maluzo developed these properties justify three EDUs based on the mathematics of the formula. When I count and I know the .edu structure I count 118 out of 19 properties will pay one edu the rest almost 70 properties will pay considerably more up to three EDUs. That's correct. It's based upon the formula developed by Mary Dely and Dennis Muzo. Mary and Dennis were instrumental in reformulating Frank Chan's formula, which tried to level cost between the properties because they felt Frank's formula was too difficult to understand and also believe that someone with skin in the game should be the developer of a truly fair system to allocate costs. I do question and would like clarification on why the Sound View contingency was reduced to 5%. When you look at Fuss and O'Neal's numbers and you calculate it out, most of them the

other beaches, the private beach associations range from 14.27% to over 60% for each of them. I'm not exactly sure the contingency in which you refer. There is no line item in our bid for contingency. What you may be referring to is contingency that is assigned at the beginning of the process. that is usually steadily reduced as more and more unknowns become known. The regional contingency had to include escalation, inflation, and a number of other items that would have to be accounted for during the process. The known the unknowns in this project are now reduced to conditions encountered that were not indicated on the plans that result in a change order. The remaining items have been accounted for at bid time, meaning we know all we know the cost. It's been bid. That's the number. Um there is no uh that's the number. So the unknowns are gone and the only thing remaining is the unknowns in the ground. So those are the questions that uh uh were asked after the meeting after my presentation. Um they've been posted on the website and uh now I open it up to discussion. uh between uh members here. Yes,

somebody made a com one of the comments the questions somebody made a comment about one over a billion dollars. Yeah, we should shoot that down fast because that doesn't need to get I mean I don't know where that came from or how I think they probably meant a million. They probably meant a million.

Well, but I mean yeah, I I'm not going to correct your questions. I just I'm just get ready for it because it could get into a paper or and again I guess the the other thing that I see is I can't overemphasize enough is that with the extra 25% we're still under the original referendum all said and done. And that's very important. And I don't think that I think people need to understand that.

Should I have a a slide? Yeah. A more a better slide. I I think that would be helpful that that this is what it was and I think you had it once. This is what it was. The graph the graph should be better. Yeah. Thank you, John. Anything else?

Yeah. Yeah, we can could probably make that better with a couple of pie charts that would show that relatively even the spending authority is is pretty much a lot more the the money funding. Dimmitri, do you have any uh

No. Objection could be if uh those numbers divided between the beaches, somebody can explain to us. I I can't I cannot understand either why some of you has 29.7% and others have less. This is uh nobody can explain that.

Well, I I I'll try to explain it. Um so there were uh EIE studies done for for each beach association in [clears throat] a line. Woodward and Curran did our EIE study. They estimated 270 edus for our system for our all the homes. They said based on what we know, we think it's going to be equivalent to 270 equivalent dwelling units. Plus O'Neal did Old Colony, Miami Beach, and Olime Shores, and they came out with less obviously. Um, Olive Shores I think is at 20 close to 25%. And the other two are close to 20%. Um, and we use those .eduus when uh writing up the CSA. Um, I don't know if anyone remembers this because it was a while ago, but the beach associations didn't even want us to join the CSA. And as a matter of fact, uh, they've expressed that recently to me that, uh, they they did not want to be partners with the town of Oine. That would mean that the town of O line would have to build its own pump station and its own pipe going all the way down the east line of this thing.

All right. So, so [clears throat] maybe maybe we could have asked our engineers to re redo their edus, but I mean that seems like a weird thing to ask if they've gone to the state and said this is how many equivalent dwelling units we think there is. But I mean it it's if it is high, it's it's not significantly high to where it's it's it would never it would never cost more at 29.7% than it would to put our own system. That whole that whole line is is $20 million. But nobody can reject us from the group of of beaches that needs the sewer. Another thing that u sound view area be the sound you beach area uh going to those homeowners will pay more money than the other beaches owners will pay. But [clears throat] here is one thing that we don't consider which is say three beaches private beaches have a security guards they don't let any stranger to come to the beach and imagine some new beach allows all members of the online go for free on the beaches. They can park for free and uh

where do they park for free? Some if you have a permit to park you you living online. You don't pay for parkings. Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. $30 you have to parking. Do you do pay? Yeah.

All right. But but beneficiaries also not only people who live in area where the sewer will come but people who don't who come to the beach from the online using this beach. So there would be very small need for town to pay additional money. the difference between cost of a homeowner who's going to pay for the sore to the owners of other dishes. This is my point. So,

I do have a comment. Um, I heard you again today say that you talked to several I don't know people you talked to regarding what it cost to hook up. But I have and we all have written estimates from BNL that it's much higher than that. My estimate which was provided actually by your vice chair Corey is $8,960 and Dennis is even higher. Call Tom Montan. Who? Tom Montano. I do know him. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm saying this is Well, I'm asking you to get a quote from Tom.

This is what we Okay. So that's you got one quote from Tom Tom has given me a quote. There have been other people that have given me quotes and other people. Well, this is what we have in writing as a quote. Okay. [snorts] Mary, I don't know your property. I don't know where you live. I don't know if it's a standard property or not. No, it's very straightforward. I'm I'm saying I'm saying for you for you. I'll put yours in for No, thank you. No, [laughter] I really love that. Thank you anyway. But no,

and John, I just want to make a comment back to you because you kind of cut me short when I talk about 50,000 or $100,000 and I question it and that belongs to only 200 properties in a line. Yes, it does make a difference to us. I know the whole project is 17 or 60 or 90 mill whatever it's going to some 70 million I guess it's estimated for now. But we really do and it does make a difference to the people in some view. $2,000, $3,000, all of it adds up. And some people will lose their homes over it. So please don't cut me short again. Thank you. Please don't. [clears throat] Thanks. Appreciate it. I didn't think I cut you short. I apologize if I did. I'm sorry.

The people that are are in my neighborhood that we will pay for it. [snorts]

um to to that extent. Um I do realize that but [snorts] this is the direction the state has requested that we go in. And I don't I don't quite understand how $2,000 a year plus user fees. So let's say it's $2,500 a year is an unacceptable expense. But when a sewer system fails down there, it's $40 to $60,000 upfront. I I don't understand how. Would you rather pay the 40 or $60,000 in a in a lump sum or or finance $38,000 at 2% over 20 years?

Some of us have gotten estimates and it's not 48 or $60,000 to replace the septic system just as you went out and you got an estimate from Tom Montana. So there's a range there. Okay. But I guess it's the independence or the ownership that that would be my decision to do which is now being taken away from me. So, I think that's part of it as well. And I'm sure you understand because you all have septic systems which you plan to keep, right? So, and the maintenance on on this project is significantly higher than 300 or $400 to pump your system out every seven years. Well, revised to five, but seven now in your

It's seven in the ordinance. It's five. Five state. I think you understand what I'm saying. Well, I do, but I mean there's two people in Sound View that were have to leave their property because they have failed septic system and it was $60,000 years. It's taken 15 years to come to a decision. There are people in View who know they have to repair their septic systems and they're sitting on it waiting for a decision right now. They're looking at it going, should I should I do I have to go ahead now this year and do this or is there going to be sewers in two to three years or are they going to come back in five years? We're certainly trying to to answer that question.

That is why right now there's probably problems in sound view because it's taken so long to do this project and it conclusion yet and it won't be until Miami Beach and I feel I feel old toys are in. All right. I mean, we know our numbers. We know our numbers. Um, 17.1 million. If Oine Shores or Miami Beach doesn't go forward, we can't go forward, right? Because we've based it on participation of all four entities.

So, the $17 million is almost like an insurance policy. You don't have to worry about Miami Beach or Old Line Shores because if they don't do the project, we can't do the project either. Thank you. You're welcome. Is there anyone uh I had I had a question. Um excuse I had to go. Um there was a couple of uh three paragraphs and it specifically said Mary in my name.

I I believe that should be deleted. and you can put it down as the WPCA because we have minutes and we have recordings that we strenuously did not feel that [snorts] should have passed that it should have been in draft form and still been worked on and you elected to um put it to a vote that night and and the other members said yes. So, but as far as I'm concerned, it's a WPCA project. It's not a Dennis and Mary project, just like it's not Frank Chans anymore. That was four years ago.

We actually told you in April, right before we went to [snorts] and Andrea, Rob McCarthy, and what's his name? Cy. Corey, thank you. Voted to pass it. Those are the three who passed it, not me and Dennis. We actually asked you the Amanda to go back and read the Karen report. That didn't happen.

Right. And Right. And the people that voted for it said, "What does an assessor's report? You do not want to make you do not want to make a formula that falls into the bounds of an assessor's report to to equitably uh dis equitably allocate uh expenses and costs to people. You want a formula that equitably allocates expenses to people and it falls out where where it does. If it goes above the assessment, that's something we'll have to we'll have to deal with. But it would be, I think, much harder to go to court to say we've tailored our formula so that no one goes above their assessment. What we've done is we've equitably allocated EDUs based on the structure and size of your home, the number of bedrooms and the number of of uh kitchens basically.

Yes. Basically, except Yes. And then mixed use we is a different category and commercial is a different category. That is far easier. I don't know these properties. You got two two bedrooms, you got a bathroom, you got a kitchen, you're one edu. You got three bedrooms, you're still one edu. I mean, it's it's we just take it and fill in the numbers report. We told you there was errors in the calculations. You moved it to a vote, people vote on it. Dennis and I didn't. Why? It becomes Mary and Dennis's. Was it your formula? So I think ultimately it's it's a fair request to have their names taken out. Say it's the WPCA.

You should say WPCA because you voted for it. Yeah, that's fair. And there was another in one of the slides when when you were talking about um the

what if [snorts] what if we don't do it and you make it you make it uh uh the doom and gloom of EPA and deep fines and court orders and consent orders. Uh, let me remind you that no town in the state of Connecticut has ever gone to court and been sued by deep and won the towns of all one and that's across the river west and east. Well, I don't I don't know if old won.

They did. Dennis Gretzky put it in his They're not installing sewers. They are doing major repairs to to um septic systems. No. And yes, they are. They're they've already completed 50% of uh of uh some there's only one t one section of town and that's Indian town that has other problems plus the shopping centers and they're addressing.

So thanks Dennis. They're installing. They have installed a a common leeching area for homes that are attached to a sewer system. Now, the sewer doesn't go to New London, doesn't go to a treatment plant, but it's still called a sewer system because it's a it's a effluent collection system just like the lagoons were that transported that transported away from the home in the trees. So they have a they have a a they have a sewer system. Now the reason

the dra system as well it's a that's how they treat their sewer system.

The the sewer system is a is a collection of pipes and manholes that transport sewer effluent from a home to a different location. That's what a sewer is. the the treatment facility is what most people view as the end location of sewer of a sewer system. But in this case, it's a drip system. But regardless of that, the reason they they did that is because DP did studies on the most effective least cost and said they couldn't go to Deep River and they couldn't go to Clinton and they couldn't go to New London. It was too expensive and so they settled on that. D doesn't feel that's the case here.

We we offered that to them. I think Westbrook was under actually a consent order and they've not today put any sewers in. They have put in systems, individual systems and Essex as well.

Except I think Essex actually once then put a downtown location only. But I think the story on Old Saber goes a little further. There was a thousand or so properties. 900 have been addressed with traditional or individual septic systems. There's a hundred or so properties in Indian Town that need special consideration, a collection pipe. And I think that was also something that Dave Pototts was trying to say to you that there may be some houses, not a thousand, but some houses that we have to move some water from, but not all the way to New London. It would be a lot cheaper than moving a thousand properties sewage all the way to New London. That's what Dave Pototts was trying to tell you.

Okay. Well, I'm going to answer that one because unfortunately 15 years ago when some of us first started here. Yes, that's what we wanted to do was move the sewage to 100 acres golf area and deep shot that down. Deep shot it down because there are 99 houses going that you can put the sewage in the town of O. You could have you could have built if you wanted to. If there was any insight in this town, you could have put a pumping station wherever you wanted to in Sam View and collected for Sam View and area B and put it into 100 acres and there was more than enough property.

The other reason deep didn't want to do that is it orders a wellfield that No, it doesn't. The the wellfield is almost a mile and a half away. No, that was Deep's answer actually. There's something at the property next door that is a potential well and that's why deep shot it down and that you can go back through the records and find that it's absolutely true. No, I agree. I remember I've read all the history and I I agree with you Rob, but the thing is what Dave Pototts I'm not sure where they are that even listen to Dave Pototts too. The problems are he puts stuff out there that isn't approvable by Connecticut D or DPH right now either. A lot of their systems have been approved. I think

they are when they're onsite septic systems, right? He starts talking about putting systems out in the roadway in the right away. Deep will not approve that. They won't. Any we have it's not property. It's a more challenging thing to do in Deep's eyes and they don't do it. there was a connect deep that's the problem. It's not that we're saying no we can we're just

I think what he was saying is there's ways that for most of the properties you could use a regular subject system is what he was trying to say. There may be some a handful like an old like an old saber that need special consideration but [snorts] not all not all a thousand properties. I I would I would have to say that very few properties in sound view would have a quote regular septic system. It may be an engineer. We haven't explored that. So we don't know. No one's gone property to property and explored that.

And it's onetenth of 1%. We've had two failures right now. That's out of 200 200 households. Well, you've had more failures in in recent years. We've had fixes. We've had fixes and some and lots of replacements. And so, you know, the other thing that DP says is all of those or almost all of those, I don't want to say all because some are conforming. Most of the most of the septic systems down there are non-conforming to current health codes. Almost all, because you just don't have enough land,

you know. So, I built my house in 1999. If you came into my house now, there's probably some building codes that have changed that I would have to start tearing down walls. But as long as I don't tear down the walls, I'm okay. So building codes though are different than health codes and fire codes. Those are the only two that are really enforcable and not grandfather. Health codes, fire codes. Codes change all the time. We don't just

building codes. Yes. And if a fire code changes, you have to upgrade. [cough and clears throat] Well, actually the problem is Connecticut, Deep and DPH don't change their codes very much and they haven't approved alternative systems and innovative type technologies that deep in in Connecticut is stuck in the past. It is and they won't approve things that might actually work at some of these properties and I do agree with that but you know I do know doesn't allow it. That's the problem. We are behind the times.

Yes. So here we are spending 70 million for technology that gold and has a history expensive history of breaking which is breaking right now. And we just saw in the paper another 700 million gallons of sewage coming from Massachusetts to White Sands. Ridiculous. Can I ask a question? Who Who are you? John, who are you? John Blood. No. Sorry. [clears throat] Not now. Okay. Not right now. You can do it at public comment. Um, in any

Well, please don't talk during the meeting. You You're allowed to talk during public comment. Mhm.

Thank you. Um, we've gone through this argument circularly for years. We are directed by the D to continue down the path of putting in sewers. That's what this referendum is for. If if the town doesn't want sewers, they don't have to pass a referendum. We won't be able to we won't be able to build them. So, I I don't know what else to do. I I'm here to do the bidding for the town. I believe that we could get fined. I believe that we can get a consent order. I I'm sure we'll lose the 25% loan and I believe in the long run sewers will be installed down in Sound View and I believe the Sound View residents will benefit from it.

I I I understand that you you have a difference of opinion, but until town leadership says stop. I'm not I don't want sewers in this town. I don't want you to keep pushing it. I believe that I have to fulfill the obligations to [snorts and clears throat] what was started and what the state has asked us to do.

Just say going back to what was started just one second. You know, I think you said that um Bonnie Rymer, but if you remember at the last public meeting, it was Frank Noey who jumped up and said, "I'm the one who called deep. I'm the one who got in contact with him." probably for old colony Bonnie Ree Ship. We have a tape recording from was it Bob Greasie? Who who was it? He came up and said Bonnie Bonnie D Bonnie Ree Snider invited us into this town. We do not go where we're not wanted. That is not true. He said it. It's not true. Okay. came up to her at a meeting and said, "I'm

all I can tell you is what the gentleman said at a public meeting. Wasn't even a private meeting. It was a townwide meeting. He said that." So, uh I don't know. I don't know. Uh and it doesn't matter at this point. I Well, then we shouldn't bring it up because we don't know. Say, "Here, are you on your agenda?" because we're we're still well it was it's under it's under my we decided to place it under my report. Um Andrea made motions to to add several items and uh put it put it there.

Can I ask a technical question that wasn't that was presented but not explained and Ry's not here to explain it. Um, in one of our WPCA meetings, we when when we tried to or you tried to get the bio station and the pump house together and Randy explained that it's the best place for it. Now, the bio station is on Gorton Avenue out of S view. What happens to the smell from the pump house, the forest man, Miami Beach uh um old colony and all lime shores when it meets at the pump house. So you get the only place in which you get odors is from the wet well. The only place you get odors is from the wet well. The the pumps are self-contained. The pipe is self-contained. You get no odors from there. You get it from the wet well and that is where all four beach associations will be dumping. Um they have they have

[snorts]

uh designed the station with air raators in there to reduce it. But like I had said bioxide is is an odor control because it stops the formation of hydrogen sulfide which is the odor you smell. So if you were to put it in the wet well in lie of the force mane you would get the benefit of not having the smell because the hydrogen sulfide is being controlled in the wet well instead of in the pipe. Um it's not designed that way and uh apparently um that idea was not received very well in solar. Well, the only reason why I ask is because I I invite anybody to go to Charlie's restaurant nyic and [snorts] go in the parking lot, take a good whiff because the pump station is right in back of the parking lot. And if and if that's the odor that's going to permeate the area, your your multi-million dollar houses aren't going to be built. It's not going to increase property values, that's for sure.

So, I just I just wanted to I understand there are other ways of controlling odor. Um, you know, like I said, they put air raators in this wet well for that reason. Normally, you don't if everyone decides to live there, that would help matters a lot also because uh they cycle if they cycle regularly in short periods, hydrogen sulfide doesn't have a chance to form. So it's it's it's gone. You don't the smell is there because it sits and the bacteria start to eat it and you get hydrogen sulfide. So uh that is I mean that's it. I believe it would have been a better place but it's not designed that way.

Okay. Uh thanks. Um are there is is there any other questions here? I think Brian has a mistake. I'm sorry. I think Brian has something. Okay. Uh Brian, could you um could could you please uh do you have any questions, Brian?

I have three quick points and I hate to have our reading dragged down any longer. Uh first one is I do have a written estimate here from Alan Hall who's the president of BNL Construction for connecting my property on Portland Avenue uh to the system and it comes out to be $8335 not $4 to5,000 Mr. Chairman but I just want to let you know I do have that if you want a copy of that. Uh my second point is is I'm very concerned that anytime we talk about extra money, the word contingency comes up and that makes me nauseous. I was a contractor at one time myself and contingencies became the dumping place for a lot of things and I don't want to prolong the conversation on that. And lastly, uh, Steve, I'm very concerned about the referendum coming up, if we ever get a date for it, because I think more and more people in town are beginning to think about uh what's going to happen to them next. And also some of our uh older residents here in the Sound View area uh are really questioning if they really going to have the money to fund this thing. So, those are just my couple of comments for tonight. Thanks, Steve.

Thank you. Is there anyone else? I had a question. If this is a public Are you Go ahead. He's No, he's he's not. No, I just I have a just one I I do have a closing comment. I think that this was a a really

rich discussion and I think um I I really appreciate everyone's input to move the uh presentation that Steve has to give. It's important to hear everyone's thoughts and comments and it's I I really appreciate that and it's helping me think about what I need to do for the the card that you know we have to send out for the referendum when we get that date. Um okay. Do you are we going to the next item? We're going to old business, which is your additional stuff.

So, Dennis, I um and to the whole commission, I I apologize. These are only uh virtual. I mean, Steve will project what I have, but I don't have paper copies uh at the meeting tonight. The first thing is the pumpout mailer. Um there is a No, don't have that. If you if you can just I thought everyone would want to see what it looks like before. Did you email that to me, Andrea? Yeah. Yes, I did.

All right. So, what I could do is email it to We could email it to everyone after um the discussion. You you do have it for projection. There were like four attachments. Yep. It's very colorful that one. I'm sorry. That's okay. I did get it. I'll flip it for everyone.

Yeah, it keeps it keeps flipping upside down. Um the biggest feedback we we have two items that I want to highlight. Um the pumpout card we the the suggestion was to make the phone number and contact bigger especially for folks that as we age have more difficulty reading numbers so we can increase that font size and there's enough room on the card to do that. And the other thing I want to bring to everyone's attention is our ordinance, as we said during this meeting tonight, is every seven-year minimum um for pumping out our septics or whatever um alternate sewer avoidance. Some people have cess pools. Um, if you have a cesspool, obviously I hope it's obvious that you would need to pump it out more than every seven years, but as a placeholder in the future um that we have a very uh that's a very generous pump out timetable and we may want to revisit making that shorter and um every 3 to 5 years. Steve alluded to that at during this meeting. So, we are going to work on that in the future, but this current card will use our current 7-year pumpout. And I just wanted to make sure everyone saw what will be sent out to our residents who need to be reminded about a pumpout. Can everyone being sent? Pardon me, Erica.

When are these being sent out? Just so I know to start checking. Um, so the the thought is bring it to this meeting and then send them out. I just wanted to make sure everyone on our commission was aware of what was going out and if there were any other comments. So, we do want to send them out right right away, but we needed we didn't have a meeting before that. Right. So, you're gonna you're going to increase the size of the font for the uh contact us stuff? Yes.

Okay. Now, Erica, wpca olam.ct.gov or-ct.gov is is you is is the right address there. Okay. But Andrea, am I pulling the list from Carmen or is someone else doing that because this is the first I'm hearing of this. Uh you you would be the one to do it because uh we have a that is is that going to be all right for you? I'm just leaving for vacation tomorrow at 3:30 in the morning. So I'll be gone for a bit. Well, they're not printed yet. So you're you got They can't print them. They need the addresses. The addresses. They need the addresses to print them. They need a list. Um Okay. So when do you come back from vacation? I'll be back in the 20th.

That's fine. Okay. If I'm just being honest, it's not going to happen that day. That'll be my first day back at my real job. No, we we totally get that. Um Okay. Um thank you for letting us know that if we um I just need more next time. So, we just need to have the list ready for um the mailers. Correct. Yeah. Um Andrew from fine. We'll we'll be able we'll be able to get this out before September. So, that's Yes. Okay. Thank Thank Enjoy your vacation. Thank you for How are you going to do the minutes? Oh my gosh. I'm going to do on the plane tomorrow. I have Wi-Fi.

Okay. She thought everything. All right. Um All right. So, if this mailer looks acceptable to you right now, 100% of our residents have septics or sewers. 100% will not receive this. It's only those who need to have a pumpout notice. And that's what the list is that Erica was just referring to. Okay. Does silence are there any comments? Okay. So, we can go for I don't think we need a vote. We're just going to go forward then, right? Yes.

Okay. The next item is about the referendum and a website notice. So, Steve, um you're going to see um Katie had come up with proactively something to post on our website and I actually wanted to show that to the commission, members of the commission. And

believe it or not, um the name of this project has had many different names. Um, and I thought maybe we would match what's on the pending referendum, which says Sound View Beach and Miscellaneous Town Area B sewer project. It hasn't been referred to specifically like that before, but if we're going to match what is on the referendum, I guess we would use that title for the website. Does that make sense to everyone?

Isn't it a town sewer project? It is. Okay. So, but the referendum actually is and so the proposed referendum actually says amendment resolution related to Z view and miscellaneous town area B sewer project.

So, I mean I think this is fine. I mean, we we could refer to it as what is going to appear on the uh referendum, but it's anformational meeting. If people don't recognize this as being the same project, um I mean, it's anformational meeting for the sewer project for sound view and area B. Uh it it doesn't I I don't think people are going to confuse thisformational meeting with some otherformational meaning about Sound View in area B. Um this gets more to the point. I mean that's an official phrase that they're using because it comes off the set of plans and documents. Um, you know,

my only thought was it is a town project and it might exclude other people from from attending. Okay. So, what is the official name? Thinking that the official name is a mouthful. Um, yeah. Okay. Let me try it again. Amendment resolution related to Sound View Beach and miscellaneous town area B sewer project. That is the refer. That's what we'd be voting on.

Right. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? like if someone did the website. Well, are you sending out thisformational meeting message separate from the referendum because we don't even know yet. This is the the town is going to send this out. So, Mary, there's Are you sending out thisformational meeting notice separate from a referendum notice? It's it's being posted. No. So, the first thing is posted on the website. The second thing we're going to talk about is the card [clears throat] that will go out prior to the referendum. So this is what yes

the card is already designed by the bonding attorney. You already put the language together. Okay. See has that from Michael Bishnello. Well, we were going to send out anformational card, which is different than the the official announcement of the referendum. Well, let's do the website thing first. Does is this what you all want to see posted on the website? I guess could we put old lime WPCA in front of the WPCA just to make it clear it's old lime? I agree. I like that.

That's a line. I guess you do have a CH line. Yeah. But just if it says old lime WPCA, is that like it'd be saying that's that's good point since there are five in the town. Yeah. So why don't we do that? And and I you know for simplicity sake I think we should just leave it at just leave it the way it is. do a project for Sound View in area B. I mean, we could do the official thing, but I don't think people are going to be confused. All right. And obviously, the date's going to change.

So, the voting the referendum voting though will be all all folks who are able to vote in the town. So, I didn't know if this meant if someone else in the town wanted to attend, if they're going to vote, they might want to attend. I mean, they know what the focus is, but All right. Yeah. I mean, it's it's open to the whole town and it was advertised. It's advertised on the website. My my newsletter said all residents from the town should attend if they want information. Yes, you did say that. Yep.

Okay. All right. So, we'll just add the old line WPCA to that. Yeah, that's a good Okay, so we'll do that.

The second thing is just an outline and um Steve, you and Martha might have more to do with this, but I was just trying to outline so that it seems like it's hurry up and then go what we're going to put on the the mailer and you have that in the attachment, too. And it So, maybe we could pull that up. Let's see if I can find it. And again, I apologize. I didn't know you'd want paper copies, but I will for next time try to provide paper copies. So, this one is uh in uh black and blue ink, and there's fiscal responsibility highlighted in yellow. So, I

I did this to try to summarize a lot of the discussions we're having in the PowerPoint.

It's a I'm trying to keep it simple, short, um neutral, positive. Uh we'll have the this I have the special town meeting, but we might not have that on here because of the time. between that if that happens and and we'll have that meeting before the referendum notice goes out. And then Martha, what what is the exact time frame before the referendum that this has to be ready and mailed? Well, I first of all, I can't see it. So, hold on a second.

We have to be very careful because once the referendum has been given a date, Yes. You can't send anything out that would say that you were going for or against, right? So, you have to be very careful of what you send out, right? Um, there's a timeline that Have you shared the timeline with her from Michael Batello? Well, I think that timeline is the timeline is the same. It's you just move it up. There's so many Michael Patello has a timeline that he put together of when you can send things out. So I have that and we just need to move the

but it's still it's still doable. I mean it's just you know it's like three weeks you have to have put the paper you have to put something in the paper then three weeks later you've got to have mailing goes out then you have to have something else and then there's a dropped dead date you cannot say another word. Okay. Yeah, I think that's after it's voted for referendum, right? After the board of finance votes to go to referend the town meeting after the town meeting votes it to go to referendum. We can't send anything out.

All right. So, I I wanted to um ask Steve to project this and perhaps we need a vote from from the folks after we have a discussion to give us permission to um be able to comply with all these timelines and the process because we won't have enough time to bring something to the commission before the mailing. So, I just want to make sure we [clears throat] we have examples. Um, I want to be able to work with Martha and Steve and make sure we get this right. But this was just a sort of a outline bullet of what I thought was going to go on the the the card.

Yeah. So, I think I I think this is I don't think I think Mike Battel's is more of an official notice. It's not it's not okay necessarily. I mean, Mike's not saying it's environmentally sound, it's cleaner water. His is more, you know, notice to people that there's a referendum coming up on such and such a day. Um, okay.

Uh, I I like, you know, I think that we should do something because we want people to vote on it. Um, it's their town. Uh does everyone agree that that uh if it's reviewed by myself and Martha that uh when the final product is completed it can be mailed. Yes. [clears throat] No problem. So who's going to do it? Can someone motion and then second it and before we have a dis the motion I just this

I don't think we actually need I don't think we need a motion. Okay. A majority of of us have Why don't you what if you just make a motion saying you'll send out a mailing once it's approved by Steve Martha and we run it through council just to make sure that we're not breaking any laws as far as want to do that. All right, John. I make a motion that we send out anformational packet after review by the chairman and the first select person and town council and town council.

Brian. Okay. I thought it was sick. Um, all right. All in all in favor? I All oppose. [clears throat] All right. Motion passes. So, it looks good. Andrea, just let's All right. I just wanted to make sure there were no surprises and that everyone knew what we were doing. Yeah. Okay, that's all I had. Thank you. All right. Um, it's it's getting late. Um, I'd like a motion to postpone new business till next next month. I'll make a motion to postpone new business next month. I second it.

All in favor?

All opposed. All right. Uh, there's I do have some correspondence. Uh, it it's from an attorney. It's a Freedom of Information Act requesting uh information uh on everything uh as as town council has put it overly broad, but we'll we'll go ahead and give them whatever I have. Um it's it concerns uh the uh shared infrastructure as well as this project. So anything anything dealing with this project or shared infrastructure uh they're requesting I wrote back and said uh we will be working on trying to comply uh with with those with that request. Um and I'm getting uh taking listening to town council on how to how to respond. Um what's what's left? Correspondence. Um,

public comment. Public comment.

Public comments. Next. Thanks. Uh, all right. Public comment. Um, I' I'd like to take anyone here first and then I'll listen to people or or listen to comments on uh on online. Uh, so is there any person here that has a public comment? Okay. Please come up, state your name and address. Hello Malo 15 and 21 Portland Avenue. I two things. I just want to say one thing about um you know the the septic systems. I have two houses. One house the septic system has been in there 70 years. Another house 36 years. I we've never had a problem. It's only seasonally used. Most of the houses that in that area are seasonally used, pumped out regularly every time the company has looked at it and said, "Everything's fine. You're okay. No problems." So I most of my friends in that area have no problem. There are just a few that I don't really know about, but you do. But most of the people that I know in area B and in um Portland, Hartford, and Swan have no problems. Just wanted to make sure you understood that. I was trying to figure out edus. One house would probably be one .edu. Um, I think from the meeting the other night, uh, that was difficult for people to calculate individual costs and and I think we still don't know what the bottom line is. Um, and I think when I read your answers

um, to the questions, you had mentioned the edus and the formula and I asked Mary and Dennis because I thought, well, how do I calculate my own to know? And Mary told me the same thing that she just stated tonight that um, that formula may be flawed. I don't know that, but you do. And so I'm asking is the formula going to be reworked so that it's more accurate for us. That's my question. Thank you.

Is there anyone online that would like to uh speak? Uh yes, John Flood, 20 Saunders Hollow Road. um wanted to just ask if if this were to pass the referendum and so on, are there proposed estimated dates of when the overall project may start and when it estimated to be completed? Okay. Uh up I'll take that. I'll I'll uh I mean there

you can add that. They're different contractors, but I'll put at least O Lime stuff in in the uh in the presentation. Um we we have a our specification uh does not allow uh construction during uh Memorial Day to Labor Day. So [snorts] consider more of a winter project. Um, is there anyone else online? Jim?

Uh, no, I'm okay, Steve. Okay, thank you. Um, not hearing anyone else. Uh, public comment is closed. May I have a motion to uh adjourn? Motion to adjurnn. Second. So moved.

Got to go eat my son. I'm sorry. [laughter] I know. I'm not getting I did not. I did not did not mean that whatsoever. People in my neighborhood that $2,000 they can't do it. But my point was, you know, 50,000 divided