Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

Good morning. We are go. Yes. Okay, we're live. Great. Hi, good evening everyone. I call to order the meeting of the board of zoning appeals for the public meeting for the board of zoning appeals for the city of Albany. Today is Wednesday, March 11th, 2026. It's just about 6 p.m. Uh we have a busy agenda tonight.

Thank you. April 8th, 2026. Sorry. Thank you.

Going way too fast and life in the year has been happening way too fast. Thank you for that. Um it is about 6 p.m. and we do have a busy agenda. So, um, we have a couple things on the agenda currently the way it's set up. Um, but unless any of my fellow members have any objection, I would like to move 195 up first. Just, uh, I know you guys have been the neighbors have been here now three times. So, uh, we appreciate your, you know, consistent appearance to our meetings. Uh, I am not sure that I see the applicants here tonight. I don't I assume they're not online and we've heard a lot about this um over the past few months. So I don't think we're hearing anything else on this case. Um with that said, so looking u summary quickly, this is project number 00624 application area variance 2025-16. The property address is 195 Uplit Avenue. The applicant is Joel Newbie. The zoning district is residential single unit low density. Uh the proposal is to allow for 42% impervious lot coverage exceeding the 30% maximum allowed in the R1L zoning district. Um you know, we we've discussed this case at length. uh you know I think we've heard from the applicant they um we've the planning staff has provided a lot of information as well as to um other um area variances uh other whether there is similar situations in the neighborhood which there kind of is. it's a bit of a

character of the neighborhood gets a little bit um kind of a mix of like whether or not there are examples that have similar improve lot coverage. Um, but yeah, there's also a really particular situation going on here on this property, uh, with like the downhill, um, the new work that was done and the damaging, um, flooding that is happening at the neighbor's property. Um, you know, the work is already done here. Um there are some alternatives considered. There's some alternatives. There's some mitigation that has happened already on this, but it's still causing a huge amount of flooding um in the neighborhood property. Uh you know, it is a fairly substantial request. I think the impact on the environment um is pretty obvious from the flooding and it's a self-created difficulty. uh just as a quick summary of kind of I think overview of some of the overall criteria that the board looks at in making a decision. Uh I don't know if anyone else wants to add anything else on this or if there's a motion the board I move that we deny area variance 2025-16

our project 00624. Thank you. Uh I'll second. Um I vote yes on denying Serena. Yes, that's three. So that is enough to carry the motion. Uh so area variance 2025-16 is denied. Um so um does that make sense to Okay. Yes. So his application has been denied. Correct.

Okay. Could you elucidate for me the steps which will now be taken uh to enforce him to comply? So I'm going to redirect you to the city of Albany. Uh I think you know the board has made the decision that was asked of the board now. So now next step and whatever needs to happen is something you need to discuss with the city of Albany. Uh with can you direct me to a particular I mean it'll be forward to the building department for prosecution. We'll have to reduce. So it's out of your hands now and into the building department but it's been categorically denied. Correct. Thank you so much. Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you for your attendance. Thank you.

Okay, thank you everyone for that. So now going back to our regularly scheduled agenda. Um we have a couple of new projects on tonight. Um the next project on the agenda is area variance 2026-1. Uh the application is area variance 2026-1. Uh the property address is 7 Washington Square. The applicant is 7 Washington Square LC represented by Michael Galler Construction. The zoning district mixed use campus institutions and UCI. The proposal is to allow construction of an 8 foot tall fence where six feet is the maximum height permitted in the MUCI district. Um, is the applicant here? Yep. Okay. Please come on up.

Great approach. Yes. Thank you. Good evening. Um, I'll just remind you a couple of uh the meetings are recorded and uh live online. Uh so just speak up and you can sit down. And so usually we have applicants uh kind of walk us through the request in the application. You might have prepared a present a PowerPoint so we can go through that. Uh we usually let you finish as much as we can uh and hold some questions for once you're done. Then we can ask you questions and then we open it up to public comments uh if any. And uh then you get a chance to rebuttal if uh needed and um then we see if there you know what the board's actions are for consideration. Sounds good.

Thank you, Adriana. I just wanted one clarifying thing. We are presenting area variance 20261 with area variance 20263. It would be two actions but they are the materials all presented together. Oh, okay. Thank you. Because they are close to each other.

Yes. And it's one same project. Thank you for clarifying that. So, okay. So, this goes with project area variance-2026-3 for five Washington Square applicant CTO real estate LLC. Same representative Michael Gallagher from BBL construction. Um, and so the same request to allow fence of um with a height of 8 ft where the maximum permitted in the MUCI only English is six feet. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.

So, hello. I'm I'm Jamie Marsot. Mike Gallagher couldn't be here tonight. Uh I'm Mike's boss, so jump in here and and see what we could do here. So, I I don't know what your normal steps of conduct here is. If you want to go through the PowerPoint or if you want to give if you'd like me, I could I could give you a a summary of of what we're looking to do and why we're looking to do it. You want to go through?

Yeah, I go through the PowerPoint. Yeah. I'll make sure everyone on the same page. Okay. So, so just just we have two properties, five Washington and seven Washington Square. They're right next to each other. And the adjoining property, which you see the parking lot up here is one United Way where a methodome clinic has purchased that property. And what we're looking to do is essentially on the edge of that black top to the left hand side where the tree line is, we would like to put a fence separating our property from theirs, which there's already a natural buffer, but nothing makes a a fence like a fence, not trees. So what the the variance that I'm applying for is we're allowed to have a six foot fence and we would like to put an eight foot fence and and we could go into the reasons why but so essentially that the fence would run with those trees parallel with those trees you know separating our parking lot making it so people just can't walk from the methodone clinic uh onto our property. So that that property there is is five Washington. Uh and um so that's one. So we're we're we're we're handling two properties underneath one project. I assume that we probably need two actions to do this. So I'm kind of handling that as one. So that that's the property line for for five Washington. And then the So here are just more pictures of essentially the propert. So if you look where the mailbox is, that's probably like the the one on the bottom. That's again, you know, that's the that's the edge of the parking lot for the proposed methanol clinic. And then to the left hand side uh in the middle there between

the parking lot and the the building to the left is is the property line, you know, plus or minus. So again, we're just looking to put a fence along that property line which is only to be seen from within those parking lots um uh just to to create a barrier between the two. Okay. you know, essentially we're looking to the the variances to go from a six foot to a 8ft fence. And there's there's a handful of reasons why we'd like to do so. Um, you know, unfortunately with these methodone clinics, there's studies that are put out. There was a study done by um University of Philadelphia where they they they charted the crime and activity for nine different methanol clinics. there is a substantial increase in crimes, violent crimes and and drug related crimes and and overdoses. And the worst part about this is is that these happen typically in the in the morning to the early afternoon. The average time of this is is 11:00 in the in the morning, Monday through Fridays. This is Kil Becker Chimani, which is a you know, respected accounting firm. uh and now they're being burdened with a potential of 200 plus drug addicts uh being shipped into this property um where they would receive this treatment. Uh unfortunately there's a need for this. Uh I'm not I'm not here to to say if you if I agree or disagree with with the use. Unfortunately, there is a overwhelming need for this and this location that they have. They have a location now in downtown Albany. And the reason why they're being forced out of downtown Albany because all the

businesses are closing. They have over 275 calls a year from the police to to to deal with things. Uh drug drug dealers go and they target the people at methanol clinics because that's their client. I mean the the increase in the negative impact is overwhelming and we have the a lot of our tenants in these buildings are are up in arms or they on on lunch they walk I mean this is a very safe neighborhood and they walk up and down the road and now right next to them where you could just stand in the parking lot look through the trees and you could look into the areas of these buildings is it makes a lot of people varants. There's actually a lawsuit trying to to fight it. That's not what we're here to discuss tonight is is the variance. I understand that. So, that's the that's the big driver of why we're trying to to increase above the six foot height. So, again, this just kind of goes into, you know, the the general standards of the the zoning and and where it is. But uh you know that's what we're here to work through you know area criteria whether desira will change produce a character I mean this we're not talking about a house right with with a wall of a fence we're talking about a twostory building that's going to have a 8ft fence next to it that nobody will see unless you're behind the building. So, even if you were to see it, it won't look grand in comparison to the building. Like, if it was next to a little Cape Cod house, it would look like, you know, the Great Wall of China. But it won't. It's It's going to fit in with the with the natural character of of the neighborhood. And also, nobody's going to see it. I mean, it's in a treeine

behind a building uh that's just there to create a barrier. So, so I really don't think that there's going to be any negative impact uh of of increasing from a six foot to 8 foot fence. And also, it's nowhere near any line of sight for traffic. It's literally behind the building where the only people who are going to see it are uh you'd see it from the parking lot of the methanome clinic as you'd be looking towards our building. But it's in no way near any traffic intersections. I mean, not even remotely close. It's in the back of it really. This is the most feasible thing we can do. Skip to like the not

just to the Yeah. to the SP for each criteria. Yeah. Sorry. Yep.

You know, so they we've this is in court now. you know, there's there's a conditional use permit that needs to be achieved to to get this, which unfortunately looks like they they will they will get. Um, you know, there's a lot of a lot of people are in uproar about this. There's this civilian learning center and the daycare and the the dental clinic and everybody's kind of come together and put this lawsuit together. So, it's it's not just our concern, it's actually the whole whole group of buildings. It's it's a deep concern and and to be honest I think that that we have a very little ask trying to protect our assets as we pay substantial taxes and and you know tiller chammani among other businesses that are there. I mean, these these are these are highly respected businesses and, you know, we're really just trying to, you know, they want to they want to sell the building. They want to move. Like, I I've literally had to find alternative locations and I'm like, you know, uh, which we're really trying to avoid. And, you know, they have people who now want to work from home with the thought of this happening behind them. um the the unfortunate need for this, but it it's causing a lot of a lot of discomfort with the PE occupants of this building and they're just general feeling of safety. I mean, I I wouldn't want to work or force my loved one or somebody to work in a building where they didn't feel safe where they had previously. And and for good reason, too. I mean, there's there's case studies that prove and show the negative effects of of this type of use, and that's exactly why they're being forced out of downtown Albany is because none of the businesses could stay open that are next to them.

It's it's a terrible thing. It's it's terrible. It's a terrible thing that we we need this. Unfortunately, we do need this. I mean, there's obviously such there's an outcry for it, but it's our property shouldn't bear the burden of of somebody else's issues and and we're just trying to so this is this is the best alternative that we came up with. I mean, that they want to sell the building. I'm trying to convince them not to, you know, let's just see how this goes and see what the fence does. And it's really perception is reality. You know that if somebody goes from our building and they look out and they can see right into where they're shipping in over 200 people a day who are drug addicts. Uh and unfortunately these are these are family people too but you know they are in a bad way and and people do bad things unfortunately. So perception is reality. you know, if they could just block that out, hopefully then, um, I I feel as though that would give a a feeling of comfort and some sort of relief to the the people who occupy the building.

I have a question for the planning staff. Has there been any interest expressed in like the recent past for any infield development in this location or in this general area? I'm just wondering like are there any expected businesses that want to build prior to this new you know new development? Just curious if there's any infill or and if this is on a bus line wondering um the area is relatively built out. Okay. Um it's all in the pine bush. special considerations in terms of how much you can build particular parcels.

Uh I believe there is a bus line that will be extended to serve the location. I believe that was somewhat a consideration of making this a project that the clinic would I believe they're extending the route that stops at um Cascade Commons out to service the clinic. Okay. Just curious. Thanks.

Yeah. So, essentially, I mean, they're going to be busting these people in. So, then they're going to be there on the site outside of a vehicle waiting to be picked up. And it's just um it's a lot of people and it's all they all kind of come in the morning, early afternoon. So, it's just going to be a flood of people there hanging around as these pe as people in our buildings want to take a walk on lunch. I mean, that's this that's what they're going to have to encounter. And it's it's unfortunate. And again, I keep on going back to this. There's unfortunately there's this need, but it's um it's really a real negative impact on on our properties and people's perception of things. Um could we go over and could you walk us through like kind of uh I assume there's um like just like what the proposed would look like a little bit when it comes to sub just to talk a little bit about the substantiality and the environmental impact. I know the city code um also has um opacity requirements usually. Uh I assume the proposed project there's no variance the ideal on capacity. So um I don't know if you can tell us about what's the proposed Yeah. So, this fence is is a a wood stockade fence made out of the proposed fence is a wood stockade fence made out of cedar uh 8 ft high and it has a um what they call it a a gothic top which essentially is is it's just like a it's just like has like a little point on the circle. So, it's a little it's actually kind of decorative. I could I could pass this around if you'd like to see. So, I mean, it's really a standard run-of-the-mill fence. It's a solid woodside fence with little pointy things on top, but it's going to

be cedar, so it's going to be nice. And it's and I personally managed those buildings. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. And then can you go back to a photo of like Yeah. where it's going to be. So, it's all along the line and there's no turning on the sides.

So, there is turning on the sides in one spot and that one spot would be where it meets five Washington. It actually will return into the building. So, you can't just walk around it and then it goes all the way down towards the the throughway. So, where the green and the red meet all along there. Great. And then Yeah. So here give me an opportunity. Well, it's not just for terrorizing my kids. This this is this is my first time like using this for like an actual purpose. So let me just So So that's number seven. That's number five. This is the methodone clinic right here. So it would essentially just be like right here and it would tie back into the building. Come down around right here.

Wait, can you go over that again? I think it' be like approximately like right here. This is five. But this five, this is the Yes, this is five. This is seven. This is the method I'm playing. I'm sorry. So, it would go, it would go over here like this and then tie into the tie into five. Go over here like this. Pretty much on that, you know, in the area of that property line would step back and the only the only spot that would return into it would return into the building right here. And that's just so people couldn't walk around it. You know what I mean? But again,

and then at the end when it turns, it just end it just butts into the building. Okay. And again, it's essentially just on the inside of that tree line that runs right there. I mean, there's already is it on or is a proposal for the trees to be on which side of the fence? So, there's trees all over the place. um we would have to probably trim back some trees or remove some trees in order to do it, but there's there's no there's no clear answer for that because the trees are kind of all over the place. Okay. So, there'll be trees on both sides. There will be trees on both sides. Yes.

And you haven't figured out yet exactly the exact path and how many trees will need to come down?

No, we have not. But I mean, our objective is to keep up as much of a buffer as possible. Like the trees are nice. I mean, they're old, but we want the trees there. Can you speak to um as part of like kind of alternatives considered? You know, one of the big u alternatives we discuss usually with applicants on fence cases is you know putting bush like a kind of a you know line of row bush like like you know without a fence bushes which the code allows out of right. Um

so yes we have and the problem with that is is you get you know plants dying and stuff like that and then also that like creates an area for people to hide you know I mean and people to be in you know back in my former life before here at BBL I I managed shopping centers and we had a shopping center 900 Central Avenue right across the street from Westgate was Hanford Plaza and right in the front there's like there was like minus car. There's like some sort of like a tire place where right in front of the hammer plaza and there's like a bunch of bushes and stuff. I had like a small city of like homeless people living underneath this tree like right in plain sight. You couldn't even see them until until the the foilage went off. You know, all a sudden there's all those people. So the alternative to have a buffer line of bushes really creates a m in my opinion a major problem because you could have people in there and then that's the whole thing is we're trying to protect against people being in there. A fence is a fence. You would have to take a piece down uh or you know damage the fence and and it's almost like locks keep honest people honest, right? I mean, you'd have to go out of your way to make it through that fence or to climb. I mean, a six foot fence. I mean, this is six foot. I mean, I'd be able to climb over that 8 foot fence is a little bit little bit more of a deterrent. So, it's you really we did look at all, you know, bushes and trees and growth and that really did not did not that made the problem worse. Um you said and I'm sorry I'm also please jump in a board member. Um but you said also that there's you know

other neighboring properties involved in you know um litigation uh against the the project uh for the other property. Um I guess have you are you aware of them also discussing considering fences as well? Um and my um and I'm not super familiar with this area. I don't I work downtown. Um but my my knowledge of the area is it's all kind of like that image, right? It's all these like business um or office buildings with parking lots around them and then open in between. Right? Just so I'm going back to kind of talking through the various criterias that we have to consider and character of the neighborhood. So like this is a like this would be granting this variance and putting up a fence would be different than what's the current character of the neighborhood. There are no fences in that area between the properties usually. I

mean there are some fences in that area and the problem that we have is that this is completely adjacent to our building. So a lot of these other people who are down the road further where the dental office is uh in the learning center. They're on the same stretch but these properties are adjacent to each other. And a 6ft fence is within the characteristic of this. We're asking for an 8ft fence. So it's it's not it's not a a big a big push from what's characteristic of this of these properties here.

Okay. Uh last question. Have you guess I I guess especially because of the litigation, do you know if there's been any um interactions with the neighborhood association and have they been involved at all in any of these?

I think that originally um we we had the neighborhood association had been reached out to but a lot of these people are the neighborhood association is like across Washington Avenue and the neighbor was they're not they're not really affected by it. So there was not it's all the business owners along the stretch of this side who have really come up in arms and really have a voice on it. I think um we didn't there wasn't much support drummed up to to be honest from the like the neighborhood association but it doesn't I really don't think that affects them. I mean to walk from here into a neighborhood it's it's it's all businesses there is no houses in these areas. Okay. Um, and last question actually. Um, you you talked a little bit about like this would involve about 200 people a day uh at the clinic. Um, and you talked about police calls and things like that. Um, the clinic isn't there yet, right? Like that's still

it it is not there in functioning. they they purchased the property and they're working through the things that they need to work through to make a happen, which if you've looked up their organization, it's it's a huge organization with deep pockets. It's only a matter of time. Like they could afford to sit on this building. And you've talked a lot about safety. So, kind of continuing in that line of thinking, currently, are there ever security incidents alike to the kinds you're worried about? Um or like, you know, you're the one who brought up police calls and things like that. I'm curious if in the current setup you are getting any kind of issues, police calls and stuff like that.

Not not at all. And and and unfortunately the police the closest police department is like six miles away. So it takes a little bit to get there. There's so there's no there's no report of crime. It's actually a very safe neighborhood. I mean, and all the it's all respected businesses and and I mean, if you go out there 12:00 on a on a Monday or Tuesday, any weekday, there's people walking around, you know, it's it's it's quite it's it's nice. You know what I mean? Like, it's a there's no issues and, you know, I got proof that there's it's not an assumption. It's a fact that I mean, they're literally being forced out of downtown Albany. forced out of downtown on Central Avenue because of all the crime. Like it's the businesses are an uproar because they can't keep businesses in the storefronts because of this. Now they put it next to

and you you've mentioned a little bit the tenants in the building uh or in the buildings. Um I guess I checking but assuming what you've been saying that um they are all supportive of this. you've talked about uh employees wanting uh you know enjoying walking around at on lunch breaks or whatever breaks um and so no one sees the fences and the turns kind of negatively impacting that feel everyone welcomes it to make them feel from your from your perspective

from my perspective yes uh it's welcomed with with open arms people you know that's one of the first things they say is we got to build a fence I mean it's you know and it's it's literally If you leave the building at Seven Washingtons and you look to the south and you're going to look right through those trees right into the parking lot where there's people standing waiting for the bus and it's just I don't want to say out of sight, out of mind, but I really think that the we've we've talked to a lot of people and the overwhelming response was is that to build a secure fence in between the properties that would would make it difficult for anybody body.

Thank you. I don't have any other questions. I feel like I want to mobilize the conversation. Sorry guys. Any motions? Anything? Oh, sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Public comments. Sorry. Thank you. Uh yeah. So, no questions. Okay. Uh thank you very much. I can go back. Thank you. and public comment. Please come on up if you you can uh give us your name and um address or connection to the project. Sure. And uh you don't have to you know like we need a general address um and there's a timer usually they set up u members of the public get few minutes. Thank you.

Okay. So my name is Dan. Yeah. Sorry. Okay, go.

My name is Dan Irizari. I R I Z A R R Y. And I am here on behalf of Promelesa Inc. which is the owner of One United Way and also the the owner of Kamo as it exists currently downtown Alman. Um uh I'm sorry I only have three minutes, but I'll try to keep it uh um to that. My uh my reaction to what was just said is visceral in terms of the way the gentleman uh described the people who would be using this. Let's first remember that the people at a clinic of this type suffer from a disease and that disease is addiction. And I am uh safe I think it's safe to say that most everyone knows someone who has uh either succumbed to or has been affected by this disease. Uh while it is true that the location in downtown Albany on Central Avenue uh is a difficult one from the perspective of being able to isolate that clinic and the people who come for services from the community at large. Bear in mind that West Hill is one of the poorest communities in the city of Albany. Bear in mind that crime existed there before Cabin Novo. clinic uh was located there. And while uh there was a certain amount of blaming uh for everything that existed or that happened in terms of crime on the clinic, I can guarantee you that crime existed before and shall exist after. Uh while it is true that there were incidents there and that there may have been many calls to the

police, uh within the past two years, uh Promesa has engaged retired police officers um in particular one Scott Gallagher who is a a narcotics officer who have been along with other members of the security team been able to really bring down the number uh to quite uh a trickle compared to what it was once upon a time. Um the new location that we are uh moving to is particularly important from a security perspective because it is not going to share a street or a neighborhood uh uh among uh a cityscape within a cityscape. So, uh, while the gentleman, uh, who spoke before me is is very concerned about, uh, people moving around and milling about and committing crimes. Uh, the the fact is that the our ability to control that space is going to be vastly increased because it's not part of

treatment. Sorry. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Um, you can stay here for a second. Um, but Sure. Yes, we can. Yes, we can ask you questions. So, why don't you want the fence?

I'm I'm not saying that they don't have a right to uh protect the the uh their lot their lot or their property. Uh what I think is overkill is the height. Um when you talk I have a sixoot fence in my backyard. Um I can't see my neighbors. I kind of regret that because I do like to see my neighbors from once in a while, but I cannot see them. Um the idea that people who are uh receiving treatment are going to be climbing over a six-foot fence is brings a bit absurd to me. Um I think most people um with abilities who don't suffer from uh such a disease might find it easy to climb over that type of fence. But I guarantee you the folks that we're talking about who have their limitations uh are not going to be climbing fences to do damage. Plus the most important part is that we will have security and the whole purpose of having that building where it is is that we have more room in which to keep people once they receive their treatment so that they go directly from treatment to transportation and that is the purpose of security team of course that will be um on the premises. Thank you for the question.

I have no questions. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Uh any other public comments? Anyone online? Yeah. And um I'm pretty sure that we didn't receive written comments, I don't think, for these cases. Correct. There was no other public comment. Okay. Thank you. Um if you wish, you can have a few minutes to rebut the public comment that we heard. Sure. Uh if Yeah. Can Can you just come up for

I I I I could respect what the gentleman said, but you know, they're talking about hiring a a a retired or offduty police officer to reduce the crime from what it is down to a trickle. I mean, I I think that there's a need for a police officer to be hired. I don't think that this negatively impacts them in any way, shape, or form. Defense is going to comp is going to blend in with the natural surroundings of of this this property. Uh to be honest, I'm a little surprised that you guys are are even have any negative comments on it. Can we um Yeah, sorry. Reminder to just keep comments to us. We try and avoid back and forth. You guys can talk after the meeting to each other. We actually recommend it. I understand. Um but yeah,

so I I I'm a little surprised that there's any negative comments on it. uh we're just trying to protect our asset and there study shows that there unfortunately this does cause problems and this is our way of circumventing that and the biggest thing is for the people that are in that building this is what's going to make them feel safe. Can you uh speak your thoughts to uh the need for the extra two feet? There's a big difference between six feet and eight feet is if you're trying to get over a fence. I mean, you could grab reach up and grab a six foot fence, eight foot fence. I mean, is this ceiling is I don't know how tall is, but it's that little bit extra.

I'm 59. Uh, that two feet is going to make it that much more difficult in the event it only takes one time. It only takes one person to be assaulted or something bad to happen. one time. It's it just it helps prevent anything from happening and it it I don't Thank you. So, do you think that a 2 ft difference is a substantial deviation from the required six feet?

I don't I don't I mean it's we're talking two feet on a fence and and again my my example if this was a house and you put a 8ft fence next to a house it would look abnormal. This is next to a a two-story building. This building's 24 feet tall. It's just going to it's just going to look like a fence and the only people that are going to see it are the people in 75 Washington and uh one United Way with a with a proposed clinic is gone. And the people on the side streets, right? Uh who use the side street. So, uh, the Washington Avenue extension, which obviously is a fairly, uh,

yeah, but it's it's actually kind of back a little bit and it's like in the tree line. It's it's not even out in in your face. It's

okay. So, on one hand, you're saying that the two feet is significant. It's a significant difference, but then you're also saying it's not a substantial deviation. So, how do you reconcile that? So when I was saying I don't think it's a significant I think it's significant in the sense that if you're trying to get over a six foot or an 8ft fence it would prove to be difficult to get over an 8ft fence compared to a sixoot fence. I could just grab on top of a sixoot fence. You'd have to jump up and try to get on top of a 8ft fence to pull yourself over. The insignificant part is is is the visual aspects of this. I mean that's the that's the impact that it has, right? So, so anybody that pulls into a parking lot, it's not going to be like, "Oh my goodness, that's like that fence is like huge." It's I don't think there's a significant impact of the visual appearance fence.

Thank you. Uh thoughts, motions. Um,

I I've moved to approve both project AB2026-1 and AB220 6-3. I second. Um, yes. votes. No. Um I vote yes. Uh we need three votes. So this does not pass. And so the rule for what happens with this is that it means the dearance to approve does not carry and is automatically denied. Correct.

Correct. Just confirming. So the variance is rejected uh and uh by default. Okay. because you didn't get any votes or Yeah. Thank you everyone. Um we appreciate everyone's time.

The next project um on our agenda is area variance 2026-2 and area variance 2026-4. Um the property address is 64 Kind Avenue. Applicant is Freedom Springs. Representative is Priapel and Iso Bridge Design Consultant. The zoning district is mixeduse neighborhood center. The proposal is to allow construction of a 78.5T wall sign where 24 square ft is the maximum size permitted and to allow construction of a 7.5 foot tall freestanding sign where 5t is the maximum permitted height. Hi, good evening.

Hello. Uh, my name is Bridget Shoemaker. I am the owner of Azoridge Design and um to my right here is sorry left is Pria Patel also with Azoridge Design. Uh so we're representing Freedom Springs um a development by uh Vino Group and um um essentially we're requesting a variance uh for two separate um items here. One item is a monument sign, one item is a wall sign or a uh sculpture. So um if it's all right with the board, I'd like to start with the monument sign. Um if we could flip to um Yes. So actually that's a great starting point. Um so if you can see here on this rendering or on these images the top left Freedom Springs that arrow at the very tip of the top of the arrow there is a small entry door into that residential building. You can see to the right of the residential building. You've got the commercial building that is now a storage facility and a um decrepit gas station. Um right where the fencing ends on the left, the construction fencing right now, that's actually where the driveway essentially into the parking lot for the residential complex will start. Um and then uh the bottom image there you can see that's the visual of the um rental facility storage facility excuse me um that's blocking much of the residential view um from Coven Avenue. So the goal with the monument sign here is uh this particular property is a little um unique and complex in that um there had

to be two separate completely separate uses on the property in order for the HUD financing and um some other types of financing mixes. So we wanted to make sure that um the residential and the commercial are completely separate. There's no commercial in the residential building. the resident there's no residential in the commercial buildings. Um but this does create a a traffic issue you um for both residents, visitors and deliveries. So essentially the monument sign would be situated right at the corner of the building. So it's where the fence ends at this point on the left hand side up near the building. It's a single-sided sign. We're asking for a two and a half foot variance to get the top the sign up to seven and a half feet which would get it get it um up to the height of your typical truck so that as traffic comes down avenue they can see that set back it's about 170 ft away and your average letter visibility is about 10 foot per inch. So, um, the proposed logo, if you have a rendering of the actual sign, you kind of detail that a little bit better. There's a traffic flow to get to where that sign is. There we go. So, the bottom right hand corner there, the actual logo is about 20 in tall, um, which would allow you to see it at about 200 foot distance. 64 Kelvin is 8 in tall, which allows you to see that at about an 80 foot distance. So that way deliveries um or visitors will recognize um the icon of Freedom Springs and and the address as they um come down Culvin Avenue. Thankfully, it's a nice slow road. Um so we didn't need to go to like two foot ladders by any means. Um, so we did look at a couple different options for this sign um to just

identify the property for again residents, visitors, and deliveries. By putting the sign up by the road, it lends folks to believe that the non-existent gas station is Freedom Springs. And that doesn't portray the property well. It also doesn't, you know, bring that visibility of this is a residential property. um the opposing corner of uh Anthony and Colin, it's heavily, you know, there's a heavy tree line there and we want to keep those beautiful mature trees as is. Um so right at that nook where the the driveway into the parking area made the most sense um what you know for for driving. Um and um that is the gist of the alignment sign question. So this would be uh 26-4 the variance for height.

Is there a sign up there now? There is not. There was just the construction fencing at the moment. Is it open? are residents in the building by now or they're not. So when when are you planning or when what is the plan to open it or have people there? I believe um I believe end of Mayon. End of May. Yeah. Very soon. What's on the left? Sorry, that's different than that's for the wall. Yeah. So we'll we'll discuss that separately there. Yeah, being that it's two super variants, this it's a little less confusing for everybody's brains. Can you can we go back to the site plan?

Yeah. Uh can can you walk us again through the traffic flow like super? Yeah. So, and where the sign is and kind of the building and stuff like that.

Yeah. So, um going uh up and down is Culvin Avenue on this map. And so then if you were coming from Central A, which would be at the top of the map, then you come down, Colden Avenue, the property then will be on your right hand side. Um the gas station and the storage facility is where that white rectangle is like blocked out. Um so that it didn't get confusing about what property we're talking about. The construction fence that you saw on the prior images um basically runs from where you see the that red line hook in. Yeah. So the construction fence is right there where she was just moving the arrow.

Um so right there on the corner of the building will be a nice uh uh island with some plantings around it. Um and the monument sign will be situated right there. It faces it's running um parallel to Coven Avenue and it's singlesided. The illumination is completely internal and just the the white aspects on the sign will actually glow. So that the icon that is the F um logo of Freedom Springs, the word Freedom Springs and then 64 CI and that's an LED glow. It's not um it's not like a fluorescent like gouge out your eyeballs bright constant illumination.

Yes.

Yeah. with a dark we do understand there's dark sky ordinances um and the level of the illumination for the LEDs um will meet that and this is obviously brand new construction um on a I mean there's been a lot of development in that site area. Yeah. Um, a lot of changes. Uh, I I don't know if you can tell us just a little bit more on that. Um, and kind of tie that into um, I guess how did the requests your request tied it into character of the neighborhood and the impact on that.

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, with the neighborhood and I do apologize, we have additional photos if there or did you send neighborhood photos in?

Okay. Do you have neighborhood photos on there? on the opposing side of Pulman Avenue. There is a significant amount of signage. Um this is on the the retail building on the bottom here. That's on the same side as the building. So, as you can see, there's a massive wall sign there. Um and then on the opposing side of the street, you've got um the Asian Market, which has a large large monument sign, taller than their building. Um, so this is going to be very it's much much smaller than the Chick-fil-A. Uh, being that this property is right on that brink of residential and um commercial. So the property technically falls uh mixeduse residential whereas everything around it is commercial. Uh, so it'll really blend in well with all of the commercial. Um, but just have just enough stance to it so that it it doesn't get lost in the landscape.

Thank you. Going back. So, the monument sign is on the island. You said there's an island kind of as Yeah, it's kind of like a a sidewalk pad. Um, you can see there's like a where it says that it's orange on there. There's a white, you know, angled. Yeah, it's like a little island pad and then there's a walkway on one side of it. Some bike racks nearby. Just like the sidewalk comes out and the the sign will be encased within that.

Okay, I see you turn into the parking lot. So like as you're turning into the parking lot. Yeah, it identifies like this is this parking area is for the residential and hopefully deter anyone who's not there for the residential use won't turn in there. So, one of the things that uh the law requires the board to do is to you know uh consider and grant the smallest variance the most minimal variance possible. Um, can you speak a little bit to the need for the increased height?

Yeah, sure. Um, if you could go back to that rendering of the sign. Do you have any way to zoom down on that? Awesome. So the there is a nice design factor here with a lot of open space around the sign u which works well with the um the visual elements of the building and making it feel more neighborhoodike versus something commercial. Um but what really dictated this size of the sign was the size of the lettering. So 64 Kelvin is at 8 in. Again, um, your best visibility is at 1 in equals 10 ft. So, a 1 in tall letter, you can clearly read at 10 ft away. So, at this point, you're reading that easily at 80 ft, but we do know that Coven Avenue is is about 170 ft away from where the sign is positioned. Um, so the app, the logo at the top, the black um, circle with the icon in it, that's 19 in. So that pushes us a little closer to that 200 foot limit um, and just gets, you know, a nice balance of visibility. The alternative to kind of carve away a little bit of height would to be to sacrifice some of the design elements. But again, the cl the see-through portions so you only have what is green is sign. Everything else that's white um between the elements of the sign is open. Um so that pedestrians as they're walking on the sidewalk, they can see right through that. um cars can see right between the the sign panel and the the the bar that goes around the top. That top sign panel is 48 inches. The

bottom one is 15. Um so it's just slightly over the actual 5 foot. What's pushing it taller is the concrete base because we know we will be plowing um and the bar at the top. So they're kind of more visual elements that bring that up to the seven and a half feet at 90 in. What do you mean you'll be plowing in the concrete base? So like the because it's right near the edge of the drive as you pull in. So when the plow truck comes through you mean like snow plows?

Snow plows. Yeah. Yeah. So that bottom 12 in that pushes it up to 90 in. Um that's just purely protection of the sign. So the sign is elevated so that u when the the entrance to the drive to the parking lot is plowed and the snow is pushed and piled on the side of the road um it's one not damaging the sign to not obstructing it. Correct. And so losing two feet on that 12 feet 12 in it would drop the 64 right to the ground. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

It's too late for math. Sorry.

Any questions? Um any comments? Anyone? Yeah. Um we didn't receive any written comment or anyone to speak. Have you spoken to the neighborhood association and kind of like the neighbors and like

the casino group and their development team did? So after they did all of that work, they present, you know, they sent the information to us and said, you know, this is the design avenue we want to take and then it's my job to present it to you in hopes of relaying their, you know, their wishes. And so the sign is for the overall property which includes or is it focused on the like it's just the residential. So the the property if you don't mind going back to the property map.

It it's it's an awkward shape. See how it's like an L? So it it goes behind the commercial. So it runs along Anthony Street. So the bottom is Anthony Street. Anthony Street um ends at Westland Hills Park and then um the portion of the building that's going upward in this image is behind the uh the storage the storage facility. Correct. And so that's where the commercial aspect is going to be. Right. The commercial aspect is nothing to do with this building. This building is strictly residential. Okay. So we proposed more res building.

Yeah. The whole L said something about mixed use for the funding. That's where I guess I'm getting confused. The what it is this particular lot is 60 colon and 64 colon. Um so the monument sign is on 64 colon whereas the wall sign is on 60 golden. Um but it's like the property line runs like right where the sign is. Um it's just it's a very awkward positioning situation. I'm not a developer, so I couldn't speak to how this worked out, but hopefully it'll bring lots of beautiful apartments, too. Um, was a traffic study a traffic safety study conducted?

Not for this sign because it because it sits so far into the property. When you say this sign, we're talking the monument sign.

Yeah. Actually, both the signs um sit beyond 100. Um the freestanding sign, it's just shy of 170 ft from the sign location to Poland Avenue. Um and the back of the building see I think it's almost two almost 300 ft to get from the actual building facade to Anthony Street. Um therefore, traffic studies um were not called in. If if this was a standard setback where we're, you know, 10 20 feet off the property line, it would make sense. Um, but these won't impact the traffic. Hopefully, it's enough just so that deliveries know where to go.

Um, uh, I have a suggestion for the board. I'm curious how you guys feel, but um, I kind of want to talk through the other side before we make any decision on this. is out of your Okay. So, if you don't mind Yeah. Yeah. We can go right back to that.

All right. Um Okay. So, the second sign is a wall sign which uh it's on the south facade of the building. It faces Anthony Street in Westland Hills Park. What's unique about this proposed sign here um is that it's actually more of a sculpture. So, it's a steel sculpture. If you could look to that page that had the renderings of the actual signs. So, you can see down there at the bottom, it's actually going to look like that stencil cut image that you see there. The wall is um it's a wood veneer at that section and it is not 10 foot by 10 foot. I'm sorry that that is on there. That is not accurate. Um, so essentially what's happening here is they're taking the logo and um having it cut from steel to create a sculpture to fit this giant blank wall on the back side on this side of the building that faces Anthony Street. There's no the sign itself is not illuminated. There's some down lighting on the building um that was previously approved. it's going to be there anyways. Um, under Albany, city of Albany, this doesn't count as a sign. Um, but being that there's no um, illumination, it's these natural materials and the location of it on the building, it actually sits in a really beautiful spot where it's kind of framed by the natural trees and the natural growth of the area. This is actually above the entry to the building. So, the actual pedestrian entry, the resident entry to the building is on this back south side of the building. So, it's um it along Anthony Street, you can't see it from Culvin Avenue. You have to pull into the parking lot and start driving around the building before you actually find the the location. So, we worked with the

development team um to come up with something that is artistic, feels more neighborhoodlike um and also gives the residents, you know, something to be proud of. The the Freedom Springs emblem is very much to support veterans. And again that from the property line to the building it's 150 ft and then it's another um about another 100 or so feet to actual Anthony Street. Can you remind me what's on the other side of Anthony Street? Uh it's there's that

Yeah, directly across there's another gigantic apartment building. Okay. Um and then Westland Hills Park is to the northwest corner on that map if I'm doing my directions right. And you said this is not illuminated this side, correct? No elimination, just um the sculptural steel logo mounted onto the wood veneer in the building. Um I didn't follow you said something about this isn't actually a sign under the code or something like that. No, it it is it is a sign according to

you think it's a sculpture but yeah to us it's I didn't follow that. I was like wait what? Yeah to us it's an art piece but we do understand um the way that the code works and it does you know um count as a sign because it has a logo element into it. Um how was the um I believe the applicants are the one who um calculate the measurement. How was the overall sign uh measurement calculated as the area of a circle? Okay. Which is 78 something square feet.

Oh, so it's the diameter of the circle. Yeah. The diameter of the circle. Yep. Is that 78.5? Mhm. Um can you talk to us about I guess why is that size kind of necessary? Why um like would 24 square ft not work or anything in between those two?

Yeah, absolutely. So, the section of the building um and I think there should be a rendering in there. Um sent one over that kind of shows that facade. No, we can pass this page around. You have more than one, right?

Okay. And we did scale it down from the very very original. So that section of the building is it a gigantic wood wall essentially and um it uh it has a heavy mature tree line on that side and there's a slight opening in the tree line where you would be able to see this as an art piece being framed by the the opening in the trees. Um, but as I mentioned before, it's actually that is the entry of the building. So if you're in that parking lot, that's actually the entry to the building is directly underneath. So what you're looking at So are you saying it's to also help um direct visitors to where the entrance of the building is as part of the overall large building that this is?

Yes. Yes. And because the entrance is essentially on the back side of the building, um they did feel that having something of some substance would definitely help, you know, draw the eye to that area. You're welcome. Do you feel this is proportional?

Yeah, absolutely. They they started out with like a 15 foot by 15 foot and I was like ah well I think it would m you know let's let's bring it down to about you know the the 72 square feet which is um you know 10 by 10 or 78 square feet um just under 10 by 10 and um it just fits that opening really really nicely. Um, and I know how big the wooden the part of the the wooden part of the wall is. Do you want to know what like what's the size of the the wooden part?

The wooden part basically kind of talking about the proportionality of the sign. It is 30. It's 27'8 wide by about 27 foot 8 across too. So she can um I can show you. So it's actually a square wall. Yeah, it's a square wall. We'll say 28 ft by 28 ft.

Yeah. So there's still a lot of you know negative space around that. That's This might be the original rendering because that's looking slightly larger than proportionate. No, I guess it's not right. Thank you.

Any questions? I'm just gonna double check. Anyone here for public comment? No. Anyone online? No. Any thoughts, discussions, motions? This is Seeker. Yeah,

we have to do a negative declaration or because it's a take two then we don't have to do anything

this would be a type We don't have to do anything.

Okay. No seeker needed. Uh I make a motion to approve area varants 2026-2 and 2026-4. I second. Thank you. Uh Celeste, have you vote? Yes. Have you vote? Yes. I vote yes. So both motions carried. So the variances are both granted. Thank you. Fantastic. And then we'll just need to follow up with the building department, right, to pull the actual permit. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you very much.

Get written up and um become available within a week or so. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen. Bradley. Uh Brad, I think it's the permit from the building department. I want to make sure I heard that. Yeah. Thanks. Have you have you filed the building permit application or did you go straight? Yeah. No, we did the building permit application got that denied in order to be able to get the reported decision to hold on. Awesome. All right. Thank you very much.

Okay. Last item with our agenda. Thank you for bearing with us. Uh the last item uh is an appeal uh for 10 North Ferry Street. Um applicant is Conrad from Sealwork Alb Inc. Applicant representative is Salc or however it's pronounced. The zoning district is NUFW mixeduse forbased warehouse district. um requesting an appeal of determination made by the chief planning official regarding proposed use asset for zoning compliance certificate letter dated January 28, 2026. Hi, good evening.

Good evening. Um my name is William Demeris. I'm an attorney with the law firm of Rup Falsgraph. Um we submitted the application on behalf of the applicant Conrad Clark and Seal Works Albany. Um, the letter was submitted by Mark Romanowski in our Buffalo office. So, um, I am located here in Albany. Um, and so I apologize we don't have a a PowerPoint presentation for you, but um, we're requesting reconsideration of the uh, zoning compliance determination that the proposed use is a heavy manufacturing use. U, this is a proposed seal coating, blending, and distribution facility. Um, in this location, we think the more appropriate designation would be light manufacturer or heavy commercial services. Uh, under section 375-602. Um, looking at the code, the distinction between light manufacturer and heavy manufacturing is the distinction based on the level of impacts, specifically those from noise, smoke, fumes, odors, glare, health and safety impacts. Um, I want to emphasize that this is not a hot mix uh asphalt plant or process. That's a very different process from what is proposed here. Um this also is not a colar process which New York doesn't allow anymore. Uh this basically involves four raw products uh that are delivered. They are uh stored in enclosed silos. They are then added into a high sheer vertical mixer which is essentially like a large blender um that it stirs the mixture. There is no heat added during the mixing process. There's no chemical reactions that are involved in the mixing process uh or combustion

of any materials. Uh the actual blender is located inside the building and is enclosed. Um there's very limited heat that goes into any of the process. uh heating is added to the water that gets added into this um process and um as well as this involves uh Benjamin which there in the silo there are electric cores that keep it warm so that it's uh workable. There's also a heating element that does go onto the pipes that lead into the mixer to again just make sure it is a workable material. uh but it's not there's no combustion of the materials or anything of that nature. Um the final product then doesn't actually need heat uh at that point and it is stored in tanks there. We're proposing in this location to have those storage tanks inside the building. Uh in other locations they are often stored outside but here this space is large enough that the proposal right now is to store them inside the building. Um, as I said, currently the client is doing this out of a facility in Buffalo, uh, and trucking it into the capital district. So, obviously, from an environmental standpoint as well as economical and efficiency standpoint, it would be preferred to have a more local uh, facility for this. The Buffalo facility is actually located in a light industrial light uh, zone. Um, and so it's similar to the location here uh at 10 North Ferry the process doesn't really produce uh noise outside the facility the the most will that will be involved is really in relation to the trucking so in terms of that there are raw deliveries those are uh estimated about two to three per week

uh based on the demand of the product and this is not a year round product uh at height it has a seasonal use obviously um So during the season we're looking at two to three raw good materials deliveries and those are delivered through 18 wheelers. Uh then outbound um Seal Works has two to three 18 wheelers per day that leave the facility. They fill up. The way that happens is the trucks come in. They are connected through pipes uh and pumped from the storage tanks into the trucks. It's a closed system. Uh so there are two to three of those per day. And then there are customer pickups uh which are estimated at six to seven per day. Customer pickups typically are more like a uh a pickup truck, you know, like a superduty with some sort of a tank or a trailer that's behind it that gets filled. Uh and as I said, the loading systems are enclosed. There's no smoke uh from the process. There's no gas or open flame heating uh as part of this. uh there's no fumes that are generated. Uh this does not require any DEC air permits uh for emissions or anything of that nature. That's a big distinction between this type of facil facility and the uh hot asphalt mix um process which does require DEC air permits for emissions. This does not. Uh and there's really no outdoor odors either from this because the tanks are all enclosed. They go through enclosed systems into the process which is indoor inside the building. There are really minimal odors inside the building. Uh there is a ventilation system uh that is really intended to capture dust and so it captures dust um and through a waterbased system and then recycles that. But that also has the beneficial

side effect of actually keeping down some of some odor from escaping as well. But it's really minimal odor even inside the building. There's no glare associated with uh the process or or the application. Uh and we don't think there are really any health or safety hazards related to the facility. Um the processing itself is entirely within the building. It's the blending process. So the raw materials come into the building and all of the actual uh process happens inside that building and then gets stored inside the building. Um and so with that we think this uh is much more akin to a light uh industrial type of work um light manufacturing where it doesn't produce those types of uh heavy impacts or significant impacts from noise, smoke, fumes, odors, that type of thing and it happens inside. So we feel that that is the more appropriate designation for this specific use. that I'm happy to answer any questions.

What's the benefit of the designation? You're saying that that you think the designation that you all are seeking is the more appropriate, but is it just like why why are you seeking it specifically? My understanding is heavy u manufacturing is not permitted in this particular zone. So the only way we could do this here in this in the U mixed use warehouse um district would be at this location is with the designation as uh light manufacturing or getting a used fair or getting a used fair which is close to

which I have a couple questions. Um I noticed that it is adjacent well it's pretty close to the Hudson River. What if the silos fail? Are the garage doors going to withhold the liquid raw materials that I'm assuming will be pretty toxic?

So, in terms of the the raw materials, um the raw materials in the silos that are outside are clay, water, bammen, and limestone. Um and then they are mixed into the seal coating which we are proposing to store inside u in those tanks. I don't know whether the garage doors would how much of a limitation on that if if there was a failure there. Um but the the tanks are uh you know professionally installed and inspected. So

um another question is I noticed that this is in a designated walkable center. I'm just curious how the traffic both from daily pickups from customers and also you said the large trucks they're going in two to three times a week to deliver the raw materials how that would impact the walkability or the walking center designation that that this area has. So, this is actually um fairly close to where you come off of um uh is it 287 there?

Uh 77, sorry. Um and so the trucks come off there and it's located fairly close uh to that location. Um it's not really towards the core um designation for this area. It is in the walkable area, but it is surrounded by other um industrial type uses. Um I think right across the way is a scrap facility. Um and so I mean I know from having driven down in that area there are a number of trucks that come in off of the highway into I think it's Water Street there uh already. Um and you know two to three trucks uh coming in over raw materials and then two to three per day coming out is really not a a significant number of trucks as could be from other uh permitted uses that would qualify as light manufacturing. This is actually not a I don't think a very high trucking volume for this particular use.

Are there sidewalks that are adjacent to this building? We do have complete streets policies for the city and the state. I I know that there is closer uh up towards Broadway. I know on the opposite side of the street there is a section, but I don't believe there is a sidewalk down in this section. So, the trucks would most likely be coming in on water then turning onto a ferry. Um

planning staff you guys drive down here all the time. Uh because I don't um do have we noticed do we know of any bike ped issues? Are there walkers here? I just want to make sure that like if this is going to go through that uh bicyclist and pedestrians um will be safe. Just trying to achieve that vision zero safety policy that Federal Highway has um on the books right now. You know, looking on the map there, it's clearly lacking in that regard. This is certainly a case of zoning for the future in terms of the walkable center. It's interesting. It kind of designation transitional area.

I don't see any residential buildings. You know, I think we we do need to be careful about keeping to, you know, the question is what zoning designation it fits into per our definition, not necessarily, you know, the the form warehouse and the concept that it was a transition that was going to take time. Um, existing industrial uses and such were allowed to continue there. uh scaled back in some respects as heavy manufacturing.

You're saying that heavy manufacturing not being allowed in this district was a change from the from the more the new USDL code. I I can't say for 100%. I presume this was owned general industrial prior

at the same time saying the goal is not necessarily to zone out late industrial uses. So there's a you know I can I just one more point?

Yeah. um you know the the application um that came to us initially compliance letter um described the use a little bit more succinctly um the applicant certainly put a lot more into the record with respect to the details of that use um I think there's a lot to absorb um you know but the the initial use that came in was for asphalt plat black flattop mixing and distribution facility putting outdoor storage tanks for raw materials in Norex saying asphalt sounded we think asphalt plant you certainly think something that's in a port area or industrial area does seem different from that whether that definitively makes it a manufacturing use there's a lot of lot of nuance here and certainly there's a lot of plans and initiatives for this area too so that And I did want to that's why I wanted to emphasize that it's not a hot asphalt mix plant which can understand with a limited uh description of an asphalt facility that that's what comes to mind and they obviously the fumes the odors those types of things from that type of facility are are much more significant and would would not be appropriate in this location. Can the applicant provide independent documentation of to support the claims of limited impact such as traffic studies, noise testing, or environmental reports?

Um, I can certainly um discuss with the client. I don't know if they've had to have those done on their other facilities at this point um uh because they have been designated as light industrial in other locations. So, I can certainly ask the client if they've had that or potentially look into um some of the those requests. Um, in terms of the traffic impact, I guess I would like to know what detail the board would like in that regard. Um, do they are you looking for an actual traffic study of this area for that or just a more precision on what the daily traffic would be anticipated uh for that part of it?

I'd love to see it. I'd love to see that. I'd love to know. I'd love to see some projections and um just thinking about again the volume the increased projected volume. There's current activity at the site. I do not know what the current activity at the site is. I apologize. Uh we would be sure I was just going to say we would be purchasing property. So uh Okay. Oh,

we are not currently operating at this. Okay. Sorry. Thank you. I thought for some reason I thought based on how some of the there was already current ownership in operation, but no. Okay. It would also be helpful to know how would spills or accidents be managed and what safeguards exist for containment. Yeah. This is also in a flood overlay district, so it's prone to flooding,

right? Could I just ask you you cited that in other communities that this has been classified as light manufacturing or light industrial. Do you have examples of those determinations or somewhere where it's explicitly stated in the code that this type of use falls?

Um I can certainly ask to see uh about that. My understanding is that uh where the current their current facility is um it's in Chik to Tobaga um out in Buffalo and it's my understanding that that is zoned light industrial um but I will see if I can get a certificate of occupancy or something of that nature for the designation that is a little bit different. So yeah right what definition it's been classified.

Absolutely. Um and then with respect to the traffic, do you know where the the traffic is going to be entering from Boulevard or from Barry Street predominantly? Um I I know that the proposal for the um for the tanks location uh and for additional um doors is going to be uh facing Eerie um and Ferry Street. Uh I would anticipate and I can certainly clarify this. I would anticipate truck traffic would be coming off the highway up water street to ferry and then coming in that direction. But um I can clarify that. Uh I would ask if any traffic would be accessing from Erie Boulevard if that could be redirected somehow to come in from Ferry Street moving forward. There are um some potential concepts to reconfigure the traffic situation in that area to direct truck traffic onto street away from that section of Erie Boulevard. So that would be helpful.

So the preference would be for the truck traffic to go onto Ferry Street and stay away from Erie Boulevard. And is that at least enter the property from that side? Um obvious for I think for the raw material deliveries and for our uh own trucks that certainly is something uh that we certainly have more control over um for customers coming in and out. I don't know if that's something that we have direct unless we get into a site plan and then need to make sure that we only have access

just any traffic analysis or truck analysis if you just take a look at feasibility and how much the traffic needs to come in from area as opposed to

um can you address waste? So, I don't know if you can tonight or um it sounds like we're asking you to go back and uh provide some more information. So, the board will probably table this matter, but um yeah, I I'm a little bit unclear on um what's the weight situation and kind of thing. And tying into that, uh, I feel like you kind of talked a lot about how everything is conducted indoors, but so is there any activity conducted outdoors on the property, any storage, any um like kind of uh what they like backup or stuff like that. So the um loading of trucks right now is proposed for exterior uh through lines that run from the uh interior tanks, storage tanks to the trucks outside. So that would be right now is proposed for outside. Um the only other outside uh is the uh silo tanks that hold the raw materials and the loading in of of those tanks um would be outside. Um in terms of the waste um it's my understanding that this does not you know produce uh waste from the process. It's just blending uh primarily initially with just the the clay bitammen and uh water and then at the end limestone is added as a as a filler and the outcome of that is like paint. It's essentially like a paint product that then goes into the tanks. Um and that that's the process.

Can you dumb down maybe for next time or I'm getting tired tonight if I I'm totally honored. But like I just kind of dumb down completely what this proposes to do. Um not for today cuz I'm too tired to process. Okay. Um yeah, just like what like go back over I guess and really make it very simple and what is created and what it's used for kind of. Yeah.

Maybe the folks in cheek could take a video at their facility and enter it into the record. I Sounds great. And so um you mentioned kind of two things like manufacturing but you also mentioned heavy commercial surfaces. Um are you arguing both? Uh well are doing either one or because I mean heavy commercial services seems quite a stretch personally.

So it heavy commercial services is a current use uh of the property. Um there is a commercial element here because part of this facility would also uh have a commercial element for the people coming in uh clients who are coming in to do their own pickup on site. There would also be products for sale uh associated with the um ceiling. So you know the different types of machinery and equipment that's used for application there would be that kind of location there. So um that seems to fit within the heavy commercial services um of that type of of use and so that's why we were uh indicating that way. Uh I have a question for the planning staff. So just thinking about DGS and our engineering department. Every road whether it's paved or not has an owner or it's jurisdictional ownership. So this is classified as a secondary road. They often don't handle heavy trucks well. It's the wear and tear and will deteriorate the asphalt pretty quickly. I'm also thinking about level of service. So, the LOS and also the structural integrity like the asphalt materials get a little nerdy. Um, how heavy are those trucks? Does DGS andor the engineering department would they want to say in this? Would they want to peruse and hear more about some of the really heavy trucking equipment that might be used on their roads that they would then have to maintain and fix?

Don't know. We could make that inquiry and courtesy. Do they do they have a feeling one way or the other? Reach out to them. Sorry to make more work. Yeah. Just something I see constantly at work. So it's like who's going to pay for all the extra maintenance? It's expensive. Materials never went back down after CO at all. Um, and so you said the current use is heavy commercial services, but you're not familiar with what that actually is.

Not I I that's my understanding of what's currently the use classification for what's there, but I don't actually know specifically what's there right now. would you mind looking into it and if not if planning can also provide some information on current use because I and maybe I I'll check on this and but does the current use not have impact at all on our like we're just trying to fit it in the best definition like we're trying to we're reviewing the planning's decision and the applicant request to change the planning decision as to what definition in the code it fits in. Um, and I just can't and I understand that part. I just don't remember how if we're supposed to consider at all the current use if that has any impact. Um

yeah, I think unless the current use was the same use, there's a change of use that needs to occur and that's something new to make sure that use is permitted. I I think so maybe it was it's so maybe it's like this is an appeal of the definition which is different than a change of use and asking for variance in use. Yeah. You said there would be customers. So, what exactly would the customers be buying? Are these like regular people or technical? So, uh if anybody's had their driveway seal coated,

that's that's who's coming, the contractors who do that, that's what we're producing seal coating that goes on to asphalt services, whether that's large driveways like out here or individual home driveways. Um so those are the contractors who are coming to the site to uh pick up the seal coated material that's been blended on site, purchase equipment for use and then they have their own um clients that they go and apply the seal coating on the asphalt. It's not what we're creating is not the actual asphalt for the driveway or the street. We're creating it's it's almost like putting paint on the drywall. We're not creating the drywall. We're creating the paint that goes over top. It helps to preserve the asphalt longer term.

And are they able to rent equipment as well or must they purchase equipment? Uh as of right now, I don't believe there's a rental um part of the business, but I can confirm that. just I was just well actually I think it might be relevant because it would weigh into the traffic right because if there's a possibility to rent then maybe there would be more customers who can afford to rent as opposed to purchase and it might increase the traffic. I wonder if it would affect the traffic study or I think it might be relevant to the amount of traffic that comes into the

Okay. Um, another note looking at the definitions of heavy manufacturing and light manufacturing and kind of trying to take them apart a little bit. Um, and looking at them was this use case in mind. Um, the last piece of the definition for light manufacturing, uh, right there's a couple of, there's one or um, there's basically two ends, right? Like it's do not create noise, smoke, all that, right? Um and then there's the traffic impact or for delivery of goods or the removal of materials. And then the last piece is a and where such processes are housed entirely within a building. So kind of yeah going back again to like kind of which you like we talked about a few seconds ago, few minutes ago about some of the activity I guess.

Yeah. the the actual processing um of the raw goods into the seal coating happens inside in a closed system. Um the only thing that's anticipated outside is the actual um you know unloading and loading of trucks and vehicles which would happen you know at any loading dock at a light uh manufacturing facility. Um and then the outdoor tanks um that store the raw goods, the raw materials.

And so the do not smoke fumes or glare discernable outside of the building. So

So there is a there is a slight odor if anybody's had their, you know, sealant applied. um there is a a slight odor from that when it gets out of the system, but here it's an enclosed system. And when it's outside the facility, it's uh going into the trucks, it's enclosed system. Inside the building in the processing, there's a a mild uh odor that is inside, but it doesn't leave the building really. So, it's all inside. And then and I feel like you kind of did this for tonight, but I guess um I wouldn't mind next time going back over again why like taking apart the heavy manufacturing decision and as to why it doesn't actually fit under that. Just for just That's the Thank you. Um, is there a motion to table second street? Thank you. Uh, all in favor? Yes. Yeah.

And would that be just for clarity, is that tabled to the next meeting or do we work with planning staff on getting put on the next Yeah, you work it up planning stuff once we have a a completed application on the requested information and will work with you to place you on that. We can have a follow call on what was requested and how you Sounds good. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh do we we have minutes to accept or do I Let's finish it. the B team. I don't I don't think provided with minutes for this evening. Sorry guys. Second. All in favor? Thank you. Thank you everyone. Good meeting. Thank you again for the fact that mentioned it last month, but