Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

I call the order to plan zoning commission city of Glenrose Texas on February 21st 202 26 why can I not read today um at 5:32 p.m. to order we will all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with libery and justice for all okay roll call L gray Clanton is absent Pam streer is here Megan chy Chi is absent James grden present Rex Miller here with a three we are a quarum all right we got one thing accomplished made Quorum we made quum all right um the consent to agenda the approval of the minutes from the January 29th board meeting has every everybody had a chance to review those and is there any revisions that you any of you feel we should be making nope nope nope nope NOP all right so if there's no proposed changes is there a motion I move second thank you guys for doing that motion has been moved and seconded um all in favor all right taada that's two things we accomplish today there you go don't feel better already those dopamine

hits all right um individual items for consideration so we need to discuss uh the consideration possible action and appointment of a chair we do this every year because we have new people who uh join the commission um do we uh the chair is the person who runs the meeting um is the primary point of contact for the building official director of building Jody to kind of gather the agenda items kind of put together content um and represents the commission at City Council meetings to answer questions Etc um is there a nomination I nominate Pam Streeter second I accept that so that's three things we accomplish all in favor of Pam is there any other nominations for anybody else on no I talked to Greg in his schedule yeah I already knew okay so if there's no further discussion is there a motion to appoint uh chair as Pam streer for the planning and zonning commission yes y all right so we do need a vice chair who was the vice chair was it um William no is it Greg I think it was Greg it was Greg yeah okay I nominate Greg yeah I do too yeah he's doing a good job so any objections we can't we can't because here you have

to be here ah I got a surprise for here next mon do we do we table that to so we have okay so we have an option so there's a couple of options here one we can nominate somebody else like I can nominate Tony um and you can second it and then he can Decline and then we could force a tabling of this to the next meeting when everybody is present or we can just table the meeting until everybody's let's table it yeah I think Megan would like to have input on it too okay so we will table [Music] that anybody like some water I'm good thank you all right um so here's going to be a really good thing um so the next item on our agenda is the discussion and consideration po actions regarding revisions to Article 14.02 5 definitions and because this is really something that was Megan um I am suggesting that we make a motion to table this until Megan is presentan y all in favor now we go into Workshop is it uh yes cool um so I think the big thing so a couple of things I want to I'm going to clear the three items first and then come back around yeah um tiny homes I know we all said we were going to go do some research on um I know I haven't had time to do any research on it I'm assuming that neither of you have had time to do any research on it um the pxy river housing by or overlap overlay did not go through Council the wolf City one did but we still have to go back and do notifications to all of the homeowners

and businesses within that overlay we think we're double-checking so I just said we're not going to do when we get that done then we will go back to the overlay and make any additions because we'll have to have a meeting we'll have to vote it through Etc so the pxy overlay did it not pass or did it not get covered did they not address it they it they did not pass it oh they did not pass it so it's back to the what was the main issue the council M's brother lived on this street that would have been in that overlay and they didn't like what our our thought process was oh my gosh okay all right they felt that that being riverfront property had more potential than what we were using it for so they wanted to leave that alone let it kind of play itself out but focus on the wolf City area so um um this the design standards for downtown I felt like we had a fairly decent plan for what we were looking for in the downtown area there was feedback on CH changing up the boundary of what the downtown area would look like they kind of didn't want to push out and include River Crest they want to put that in a separate separate boundary kind of a a um compatible boundary to the square area but they wanted to push the other side going down and including Oakdale Park more into the downtown boundary kind of pick up big rocks pick up Oakdell put it all into

the downtown boundary but cut the down Town boundary at Herford and then create a more compatible boundary going around to 67 and that first part of 67 and then create more of the business 67 boundary so so what what are they thinking about the River Crest part um it could be developed differently it can be developed oh okay all right um it's not that they uh didn't see the need for putting it into an overlay they just felt that the overlay um didn't have to have all the same restrictions as the downtown did so we should create a different overlay for that I can see some logic in that so um and because there are some limitations of what can be done because it's in a base flood elevation right um they felt like we had some time to kind of divine a better plan for that area got it good okay um they are anxious for the idea of an overlay on Highway 67 not Highway 76 that's okay because I said 21st so well at least I had it right on the on the agenda on my te there was a dyslexic moment um what I wanted to talk about with you guys is because we kind of talked about the original idea of the boundary on 67 but I think it's key for us to

understand what are we trying to accomplish there um so thought instead of so I actually pulled it before it went to city council because all we had ever kind of done was really talked about the outline without really talking about what we wanted to see in that so there's a couple of key things that I see having a need for keeping a 67 out out overlay in which is there's certain types of development like we don't necessarily well we don't necessarily need a gas station on 67 we have a lot but we do not not have a gas station going down 144 to Walmart so there would be potential for a gas station on that side of the river and that we wouldn't want to say gas stations are not allowed or gas stations or specific use permits in any B2 category because going down the river going down 144 is a B2 category so I think the need to be able to pick and choose and say okay look 67 is overloaded with some of these business types but we don't have it on the other side of the river and we've got room for development on the other side of the river maybe some of these things could go over there is warranted that makes sense does that make sense to you I don't see where put one in the city limits unless the city Li gets moved down well the city lims can always moved out I mean that's what annexation is and now that there is a more um there appears to be soon a better agreement between city and county when annexation occurs it it may be more possible is a gas station is going to

want to be in the city limits so is Performance Auto in the county yes I guess it is yeah it's in the county I think the limits stop at the 56 right right about there yeah right about at the turn yeah so there's there's just I'm saying is if we wanted to put a stop to a gas station we would put it as an Su within the 67 Highway overlay it wouldn't be an sup in any other place not that we have to create an overlay 4 144 but just that anything that's B2 out there could put could become a gas station there are a couple of lots that could be redeveloped that I mean where his and hers is was a gas station at one point I mean granted the tank is probably not yeah there'd have to be some remediation there have to be but there are some spots along gas St before you hit works on that curve where they sell the flags and blankets yeah so I just so I just kind of wanted to get a feel of from all of you both of you you guys what would be some of the other things we would be looking for or for 67 other other than a control of certain types of business that can go there or couldn't go there is there any other architectural design things that we would be looking for is there any changes to sign ordinances that we'd be

looking for there just to standardize the signs yeah and to have some kind of upkeep requirements we have upkeep requir Ms on signs okay we have up requirements on property okay it it has been a code enforcement problem of not necessarily having code enforcement people and then we had one and we have an open position fa okay got um when you say standardize what what are you thinking um so you've got um well that's a good question what I see is just what I see is just hod Podge hodge podge of Summer Wood summer Electronics yeah so I don't know if you can even standardize because you've got some franchises that have their particular franchise but I've been in places where they even McDonald's has you know like in um up in Port Portland Maine McDonald's has a wooden sign and it's it's a house basically that they yeah no I mean when we talk about a change standpoint the chains do have to comply with city ordinances so they have to find a they have a variety of solutions for every occasion they just tend to choose the one that is

the biggest ugliest and most noticeable when somebody doesn't give them standards to follow well that might be something to get some input on on a town that has inherited how do we go forward so that over the next 10 years we get a consistent [Music] look Rose a branded identity I mean Fredericksburg has that okay I'm going to I'm putting a pen in that topic at the moment right all right what other things Tony do you have thoughts on what you would would like to see is is people are driving down 67 and I think the ordinance would have now they're pretty good you know clean parking lots paved parking lots our problem is the ones that aren't following following yeah or and that means we need to hire the city needs to hire somebody to have the band withd to do that uh flower beds you know there's the landscape ordinances they have to do the ones that do it I think look good my big deal about the signages is uh blocking your field of view when you're trying to pull out of somewhere and I don't know how to dictate that on paper or what dimensions would be adequate to survice but that's my biggest pet peeve when I'm in any Town perex dot they've got 10 feet off the back of card right that's is there is there and I think it needs to be 10t off the

property line and you know inset and I don't know if 10 ft's sufficient but is that for safety reasons that you're thinking yeah yeah you know like P up to a like right up here next to grunts if they were put a sign right on their corner you know you can't see that way and then if the bank had one right here you couldn't see that way right but it's not just on streets it's pulling in and out of any facility any property yeah um and I don't think this town has a big issue with that but as I travel there are some that are just horrible there are there's also um there's also the temporary signs that get put up and this is where you Steven's had to deal with a few of those situations that they don't get put in the proper place um I think one of our problems is also that in the past we have allowed grandfathering and that the timeline for grandfathering you know there is a business who has who who looks like they had a paved parking lot at one point in time that is no longer a paved parking lot and it is dirt and grass and I can't say anything because my partying looks like too but um I think that we need to look at it from that standpoint of okay it it's time you you're you been given notifications you've been this if we put in the

overlay and put that you have another year or something to clean up that your grandfathering is over would be an option I don't know if it's legal to do that but it would be something for us to look go through the files and find those grandfathered situations and um whether it's legal or not morally I wouldn't be okay with making fix the grandfathered parking lot well the grandfathers were all had a timeline to them so we would have to go back through most of the time it's that they either they either had like 5 years to come into compliance or if they did X it had to immediately come to compliance so it wasn't something so our biggest what I have noticed about our wonderful town is that a lot of times we have these rules where we say okay we're going to give you time um but then we never follow up and say your time's up no personel change nobody remembers Etc so um I are these paper files or electronic files good question most likely going to be paper if there are any okay operative word there is if there are any right um so that's when that we then have to create we have to kind of create a new trigger for a grandfathering and whether it's another five years or and of course if the property changes hands it's not grandfathered anymore correct or if they remodel a certain amount right maybe if they have to get a permit for something then that

so all this sounds like it's a capacity issue I think from a code standpoint it has always been a capacity issue in our in our community I I think that I think that some of it is the capacity and then some of it is in the past and not more the recent past but more of the distant past was the um Legacy accommodations I'm trying to say I'm trying to come up with the word yes I like that I like that Legacy accommodations well and even still when we had good voice system when we had the code enforcement position filled and letters were sent out the response that was coming back to me was I've lived here for 20 years and never received a letter like this right well now you have which is why I feel that if we come in with an overlay that isn't really changing anything per se other than something really minor the notification has to go out and that starts the conversation about hey things are going to start changing and you are you know maybe you've never received anything in the past but understand that you know as a town you know a very nicely worded it's not that you're not in compliance but understand that these are the things that are comp need to be in compliance and people are going to start looking for that and so not give them the first you're out of code but the heads up codes being looked at do we have that position open that then that we're looking for a to I don't

know if we' got that a it's part of the job duties of a position that we're trying to get created okay seems like a no-brain well because the person that has that also has a full-time job as being animal control so oh she doesn't have the time she's also code enforcement mhm so I thought we split that mat you go yeah but the position is still split kind of but she still is licensed no I know she's licensed but we'd split the position to hire a code enforcement person I don't know just because that when that position was let go position opens up and the and should have been posted okay we're going to have another time okay so I don't have enough person somebody be full time got it that's why it's getting Incorporated in the other position you don't have enough code enforcement activity for someone to be full-time how's that how did you determine that four square miles yeah to small for a full time I I have some ideas okay I was going to say but we got a lot of backlog that we'll keep I mean I have some ideas okay four square miles four square miles I have some ideas yeah I got I got where you're

going okay all right got read between the lines yeah I am y okay um I don't know I I guess I'm still I want to Define what standardized signs I'd like a standard location and a standard size standard size height and yeah and location yeah okay okay size setback SL [Music] location um as far as our town goes and the right away we have 10 ft inside the property L should Sur I'll uh take some time and and we said height right visit there okay cuz right now our sign orance does have a lot of Lee based off size of building based off Frontage Etc so we we could just leway on size yeah and that's where a Marque is there any uh ordinates for signs on the building yes just thinking if they didn't like a small sign out front they might put a two stories on the building we have signage restrictions on the building okay so that's what we're talking about standard I so we're not looking for new Stepford Wife place we're just looking to be some consistency so that it doesn't look humble jumble as you drive down 67 I can get on like I said there some they electric some are wood some are

metal just a hudge mge so are you trying to think of a type you want to standardize because I'm not sure I'm as on boor with that I'm saying I don't know can we put something on matter you could is that what we want my thing would be that a cost structure so a sign that is wood on a post is obviously a lot cheaper than a sign that is metal with electronics now previously Troy and Council have removed the um the rolling Electronics the Ever Changing scrolling electronics for new signage like at Expo like it Dairy Queen they those two were grandfathered in um didn't want that anymore um but like we did say hey gas stations have to be allowed to change their electronic sign for pricing points Etc so um I I don't know what the cost point is on like those lighted Plastics well you've seen the sign in front of my building right black post black sign white letter about that's it $99,000 I would be fine with it even though bled ones as long as they turned them off at night yeah put on 205 at night blind yourself timer as far as the structure or materials uh I guess personally I would

leave that up to the business owner uh you know they can kind of match whatever they're going for right rustic or modern that's right as long as it looks nice yeah as long as it's looks nice and is in good working orders not fixing a fall over okay okay so let me I I I will take that back and play with some of that and kind of bring some ideas forward for us um that we can then incorporate um as we tackle that overlay District but I just kind of wanted to talk it through and get some better understanding of what would we like to see if we were to create that overlay so I appreciate that so back to the one that we're going to have the most fun talking about permit fees so permit fees so that is the packet that Jody um gave you when you guys walked in so this is in essence um what is currently being followed um when somebody has work that needs to be done and as um stepen had an idea about some updating of fees that Council that the council meeting council members were quite honestly confused because some of the fees they didn't understand some of the fees are like why would we charge for that um and so it kind of went let's take it back to the drawing board and so the drawing board is actually us um since fees fall under zoning

um and so um Stephen did some research and found some towns that had streamlined the fee structure because it's I mean like I'm sitting here going through this list and Tony I know you know this list probably better than all of us um and you're confused like the rest of us it just feels like a lot of nickel it and diming and and like I always sitting here going okay new construction I kind of understand some of that stuff blah blah blah but like when then I get to you know repairing an H system I guarantee you that my HVAC company never came over here and pulled a fee to put in a new capacitor or something like that you guarantee this is for commercial property this is for residential and Commercial it's all of it um you got one main problem there's no way to track in any of it well that that's all about a full-time coding portion kind that's kind of where we were we were going with this whole thing and so um well this doesn't even fall code enforcement it falls under voting official and really yeah under what building official oh so one of the comments assistant building official what's the purpose of this what let's start with let's go that's that's where I wanted to take us so one of the one of the things is what is the point of having permit fees and it is it is two things

one is to ensure that what is being built worked on replaced um is being done in a proper way sure to the commercial business owner and or the residential owner like for example I hot water heater put in and the plumber every time we said where's the pan there needs to be a pan under this tank it was no doesn't we're like we want a pan under the tank you don't have to have a pan well he didn't pull perm didn't he yes he did and in the inspection Dennis came out and out flagged them and said they're supposed to be a pan so some of the point of permits is to catch things like that where a a a contractor not you um or a repairman or a Workman isn't doing things in the best light to code and it's not code that the city writes it's code the international code property damage right and also enforce Life Safety well let so is there a certain degree level size of repair renovation where someone should pull a per permit to make sure they're a qualified supplier contractor well so that's part of where this goes if I if I just want another electrical Outlet put in so that was actually the example that was brought up at city council because

they saw a line item that said fixture and so the first thing said well if I wanted to put a different chandelier up than the one I had you're going to charge me a like no no but if somebody's coming in is going to pull power from one wire to and then bring it and add an additional fixture do you want to make sure that who's doing that knows what the hell they're doing so but reality is when somebody's doing that to their own home or they're doing it to a commercial building and they're doing it themselves they're never going to come in here in polart you don't have to if they hire a electrician if the electrician is fully upright and honest right they would walk in and get a permit they have to register with us I have yet again I've had Outlets had to be changed I've had Outlets that we've had to add for things on my property and I hired a electric company that was R by a official within the oh yeah County they never pulled a permit I had housework done in Phoenix and I asked the guy I asked my contractor do we need to pull a permit we're moving gas line do we need to pull a permit so we could but I'm like it's a gas line I'd like a permit pulled you know so where do we balance between buyer beware and this is for your protection so that's a good question the other thing that we kind of would like permits to do is not be a revenue source for the

city but to fund the paperwork and the and the employee status of the work that has to do to build these things so the first idea of what should be permitted is one question the second then is what should the permit cost and the goal would be to get it to cover the expenses of the building office would be the answer so Stephen did some research and looked at a bunch of other towns and basically kind of narrowed down some permanent Concepts that I kind of want to okay take through with you and Stephen I'm going to let you jump in when I start to go astray with a wording so things like a garage sale um a street vendor permit a sign permit um forms where they have to apply for a zoning change or they have to apply for a plat or a certificate of occupancy none of those really require inspections the work then if there's work that comes later that they may have to have inspection store but we're calling those all kind of one fee thing one fee group that we can kind of set a realistic reasonable fee for that covers basically the cost of it takes Jody it takes as they timed it from and going everything by half hours and hours so to pull the permit sign it get everything done file it D you know a a street vendor permit you know it's 30

minutes so if we just kind of say hey look whatever what it is when we're dealing with the very basic of life it's 30 minutes worth of work now there's printing that has to be done there's this there's that there's you know ink and whatnot so there's some cost related to that plus the person's time in the office well can say one thing on like the Mobile Food vendor I have to do a background check of everybody who is going to work that food truck so we have that in addition to you have to do a background chalk and everybody has to work the food truck you don't have to do that you don't have to do that in a restaurant or anything okay well we're going to change that ordinance yes I have to take the time I gota get a copy of the license of whoever's expected to work it plus run background checks W and how long does it take you to do a background check there's a cost to doing a background check because the fee for that is only $5 well it's $300 for a mobile food vendor but that's also because the Mobile Food vendor has to have a fire inspection too okay but how many background checks comes with that $300 well there I think it's up to H say it's five I think it's up to five and and then if you're over five people it's an additional like $5 or something per which is probably way okay so that brings the the fee for the vendor application down to 275 how long and what does it cost that we have to pay for it I have to upload um to get tokens in order to run

it um so it all kind of depends um so it it without necessarily 10 minutes per person probably all right so there's 10 bucks well I then we're going to no restaurant has to have the city do a background check on anybody true that works there so why the hell would we make them do it on a mobile food truck yeah why why that ordinance in the ordinance we're going to get rid of that in the that's just ridiculous yeah as long as they meet the standard I mean you don't do background checks on anybody who buys or starts to operate a restaurant you're not doing a background check I mean the only thing I can think of as a background check is because if they're going to move the truck they're going to drive the truck that ends up being a police matter yeah if I don't I'm just putting it out there yeah no I'm I'm with you we're g to be get that's just stupid I'm sorry I'm all for you know saying fair is fair I mean we have a fire inspection on a restaurant when we have you know equipment put in a food truck needs to have a fire inspection we have a certificate occupancy a food truck should have some type of a certificate of occupancy whatever that is but an an employee background check no yeah and a commercial certificate of occupancy you have two inspections youve got fire department that goes out right and then you've got the building offici right so so the idea is to kind of so the first idea is to get rid of all these nickel and diing things and be a little bit more median in the fee structures so that we're not sitting here asking the plumber well how many faucets are you

putting in how many toilets are you putting in how many shut off valves are you putting there here's a problem example the roofing there's one two three four five six different Roofing permit types whereas on the new one it's just a flat Roofing permanent so where did this come from these are our current fees this is the current this has been in place for years since 2022 well may have been longer that's just the last time it was updated was there an audit on how much has actually been collected so so this is where some very rough math that Stephen has done is he's kind of looked at um an average a fiveyear average that um new residential there was about 104 permits pulled uh um 30 commercial permits pulled um and an average of about 1271 permits pulled that if you simply took the the average of the cost per permit not the detail of everything actually captured and revenue collected but if we took the average of the permits pulled um it's $ 55667 per permit right per what am I reading that right I'm not reading that right apparently it sounds High 566 no the average is

$373 okay then what was the 566 that's the total what's in oh the commercial commercial the new commercial okay okay so okay got it so new commercial 30 on average 30 new commercial permits pulled 5,566 yeah okay when we look at new residential 104 ped an average of 1756 and when we new construction new residential so when we blend all of the various different permits pulled that's where we get an average of permits being 37349 okay okay okay the problem is that the cost when we look at labor plus supplies equipments Communications computers blah blah blah blah blah um we're upside down and so like right now the building department has has a truck that could be considered unsafe by any normal driver if we still had state inspections probably wouldn't pass a state inspection but there isn't money in the budget for them to be able to get a safe vehicle to do the code enforcement or to drive around and do the inspection so we need to reinvent the wheel how much are we underwater by What would would it take what would the average fee need to be to cover cover the cost so this is a break even based on the

budget and it's I've got it broke down into tear where they're grouped together based on how close they are with with what the cost is and what it should be so so is this touch screen no no sorry it's a very old Apple it's 15 years old see you got your money forth that yes I did so basically for an hour of work to do all the processing and everything for the the paperwork the inspections Plan reviews it averages out that we need at least 127 .97 per permit so you take all those have a combined hours of how many how long all those take and it comes up with a total cost so the minimum is like garage sale Street vendors sign permits about $64 is what it costs to just cover all that for saying we're not going to charge $64 for a garage sale permit that that's luckily City Hall is dealing with those I don't have to those yeah so for say an accessory building there's no plan reviews but we do have inspection and permit time so that comes out to about $127 and 97 cents one hour worth work so I've grouped all those together as say $130 that way we're they're all right there close right um some of these we

are so upside down that um where is it for a residential Co for new residential we're $110 in the hall on that what what are you currently charging for new residential is that 175 no that's uh we don't have any additional charge for a CO for commercial or for residential but yet we've still got to do the paperwork how much do we charge for a residential we don't oh we don't that's what she's saying oh so we're upside down on that because we've still got our shirt on right because you still have to have Fire Marshall out you still have to have the building inspectors and then each permit into it into the build gets has a permit fee but the actual finish to get the CO they're not charging even that there's work that has to be done for that aspect so these are not LGE these are no those are ours that's our current fee structure so Tony you your company builds things what do you think if instead of having a pluming well instead of having a fee per faucet per fixture per this per that that Pennies on the dollar there was just a hey you're building a 2500 ft Home Three bath two bed let me word it this way would you rather go through this or just eight groups of

inspections that is a lot simpler to understand well and the new builds isn't the problem it's the remodels yeah right because the new builds are based on the square footage but remodels are based off of like Glen wison and his commercial properties it's like he's moving installing shampoo bowls and he's doing this and it's whereas with the new and it's pretty much a base fee right but I mean no one's going to come in and get a permit to replace a faucet right right that's what we're saying so why would we even waste anybody's time right right for that yeah if if a homeowner's doing it they can do it their themselves yeah but if it's a licensed plumber they know they got to come in and get this this makes it a lot easier on them and the rest of us so I'm taking out loud um the contractors that work here um if there was an annual fee they have a registration fee okay like 50 bucks right right but but but an annual fee that would cover any work day would do and it's based on an average of the work they've done in the last year you could could that house bill something you drive contractors away okay all right what about which how do you simplify this then so because you're G to have so here's people just ignore so here's here's the thing so here's the thought process so if you take so in

the current packet if you go under um just use the first one here Sun permit fees it would be a base of well I was going to look at the commercial the so under electrical permit fees number four so so this is residential and Commercial add-on or remodel 20 cents per amp okay and then 20 cents per feeders per amp and then $5 Branch circuits per amp and then $40 for the first 500 square feet and then after it's 8 cent yeah so sounds I mean this is like cost estimating and you need cost estimating software to plug it in if you just said electrical remodel here's the fee electrical new construction here's the fee would that make more sense and maybe uh you know have a a a permit for electrical or Plumbing or whatever for either simply fixing or raising the standard of what is existing you're not re you're not remodeling the whole house you're just UPG updating updating versus adding square footage or completely remodeling the house you know have a have a tier of to what degree are you constructing or reconstructing so I'm just going to try to because I'm a simple brain

sometimes so if somebody was just hey my faucet's leaking I don't know how to do this stuff I need somebody to come out and do it but it's the exact same thing they're not doing anything different there's no per Fe right if they are running new water lines changing out PVC to a Percy yeah okay if they're making substantial changes if they're adding square footage permit feed a higher permit fee a higher permit fee and maybe that can be in in line or in the same tier as if you're adding square footage versus completely remodeling inside the house okay and see we've got that on here I've got electrical repairs it would cost the city $91.99 and 200 bucks yeah let's see um electrical remodel it would cost $255 N4 for the city so I've got it broke down new Remodel and repairs yeah so it's it's all in this new it's all in this new tier system I didn't give him a copy of that yet that I came up with yeah I didn't I didn't give a copy of that I want to talk it out and then bring us around and it's a lot less of a accounting nightmare than keeping up with feeders and tell me about it this is based on universal City's fee schedule this is a lot cleaner to read and look go and drink you can see I've got a colorcoded part of Tears yep I feel like I'm nitpicking I'm doing okay so under that

concept I I would just round him up to that's what I up to the next5 and that way it's like a two or three do that because we don't want to make this as a revenue I just wanted to cover our fees our cost per so that's how I came up with that because Universal City it's a huge Improvement okay so just to run through these categories so that we're all kind of saying yeah this all you know now that the concept is has been established so uh a street vendor fee would go from an average of 1801 145 down to 120 and that is because we have um and then if we get the ordinance Rewritten we can redo re redo that number okay A Sign permit has an A sign permit has an average of $106 so that would be $110 except that the count wait hang on because now I got to remember this line over here okay the county or the city not the county the C the city needs $127 $128 so the sign permit would go from 106 to $1 130 the street they need 105 so oh so we can actually go lower on some of these go lower some so we could go from the 181 I was reading it wrong we could go from the 181 to 110 because we need 105 for the city to cover its

cost all right the all the niggly paperwork that they have to do to come sit before us and talk to us about things has an average of a$ 42998 we could bring that down to 130 but the problem with some of that is all those letters have to go out certified that has to be a separate line I know I think I think that the mailing then I just need to go back and add that into the formula so does that all depends depends on how many letters are going out correct and a lot of those were we'll just figure out the fiveyear average on it and add it in so do we do that or if it's something I don't I want to penalize somebody because they like if somebody's on the Square and we know that there's 100 letters that have to go out but if somebody's out further out and there's only 10 letters to go out should the square so the person with 10 have to pay the same amount as the person with a 100 well it goes into or it goes into our direct and indirect cost okay it goes into the formula okay so we need to look at the cost of our Postage and then just do a median on that and add it so that it will balance out over everybody right so everybody pays a fair share or do you or do we charge it by the number of mailings per request that that person has try and figure out many this many letters yeah so we should just do it as an average and then when it is something like what we're doing with these overlays and it's being generated because of a city need then we need to look at that separately because like to do these

overlays are going to be huge M that's why I said well I get it but we have to do it or we think we have to so we still have to follow up on that um okay so it's going to be 120 plus an average of certified letter mailings okay what is that five 10 bucks per per person I haven't had to do one in a while so I yeah about so we assume that most often we're doing 20 mailings per request and oh yeah that's another 200 right there so that fee is going to go up but it's a fair up it goes into the direct indirect cost cost right which would make that 127 go up just a little bit Yeah okay um Board of adjustment so this is when somebody is applying for a variance in bypassing thing so again that's another another mailing one we need to look at to get to the right number all right accessory building for this is one that would that currently averages 5775 but it would have to go to a 130 so in the idea that somebody is has bought and wants to place an accessory building on their property there is looking at the foundation there is looking at its setbacks making sure all of that is done

properly it should be one inspection and yeah the I mean when we look at the cost of one of these buildings is $130 an unreasonable expense to ask for talking about the little Portable Buildings yeah i' say not okay um so right now we don't do Residential cosos um but in reality it's 130 should we start charging or do we up the new construction permit fees to accommodate the residential Co fee so there's no inspection there's inspections along along the way I've got one final inspection for a c okay for for a house yeah yeah I think I don't see why that would have a different structure to it if we're lowering all the nickel and dimed construction fees what a CO fee make sense the uh cative occupancy yeah you've got I mean a person has to go out and inspect it and you've got a fire inspection and you've got a building inspector that's we're looking at $130 yeah I think that's reasonable just 130 yeah yeah they cheap yeah that's cheap for their time that's what I'm saying you you got two profal that go out there they got to drive out there they got to wait for the owner to oh on the residential you don't have Brad going out there though that's just you yeah yeah commercial we have Brad commercial

needs to be higher but on a residential it's I mean the the Builder has already paid a lot of fees along the way this is just the final thing and quite honestly could be included in the closing cost because you can't close on the property until the COO is in place that's fine and then what's commercial 250 well yeah 260 250 because you got two inspectors well some of those require multiple times because because it's they've got corrections to be made and that's another thing if it ain't right the first time you going to charge them again to go back first time's free after that it's a cost what's it cost well have to come up with that number come up with a number so you go out once that's the 130 you get a second round of Corrections so if you have Corrections you get a second visit free if you have to go out back a third or fourth time another fee what's an average visit in time 30 minutes okay so you got at least what 50 bucks in cost dri up there spend your time and get back to work at the office well cuz how much are we talking how much you got paperwork how much is fire department charging we we came up with probably an average of with me and Brad both it'd probably be that 130 yeah for one visit for a reinspect I know some municipalities have $200 for reinspection so what I was going to say go go inspect and if yall want to do it again the second inspection at a good graces not charging

it fine but the next time charge them again third visit yeah visits call right pay before we go yeah then you know if you're giving them Clear Directions then they should follow it and if not well they're following code they shouldn't need a reinspection at all right but well there are some judgment calls you know like but there's a lot of buildings around that don't have addresses on the outside yeah yeah and that's one of the comments is need an address okay so if we were to do the reinspection of a commercial fee I would say it's still the 130 again commercial I'm sorry residential residential yeah yeah and then the commercial we're saying it's I I would go to 260 and then the reinspection fee is 260 and we want to say that that's after the first after so your first inspection is paid for you'll do a recheck for free and then if you have to go a third time they pay it time is in the P okay and is that an inspection on the entire facility or you know each trade entire facility because the inspections for each trade are done during the building process yeah so if you have a building change hands you've got somebody that's moved out you've got somebody new that's moved in before that business can open has to get a new Co has to get a new Co because you need to make sure fire extinguishers are curent you need to make sure exit lights are working don't have extension

cords that are being used basic life safety so just final inspections basically yeah so they can't get into the trades works on those things because it the wiring is all in the walls everything's done you're just only thing I can hit them on is like if they're covers off the outlet gotta yeah because you can you know stick your fingers in there that's Life Safety electrical panels being blocked ESS stuff like that yeah that's fair that fair yeah okay uh T business sign we don't charge for and we're losing money so when you say attemp business sign just so that we can clarify a definition here what would you consider Starbucks opened that temporary this is now open that's a temporary business sign you've got the new Western store along 67 that's a t Banner M uh four lease signs T Banner some of the Landscaping signs that are up 67 in a couple of spots that's of the farmers have that so A house a home builder putting their little political signs it's not a political sign same direction sign yeah like or whatever that's that's a temp sign I'll tell you the perfect one cheldon Holmes this weekend had signs out going open house for sale those are you know temporary for the weekend

gotta okay I'm gonna I'm going to differentiate some things here you're not going to like me I think if you are doing a banner sign that you're hanging off your building that's going to be there a couple week a couple of months only have days Cent ordinances per ordinance so if it's on the inside of the building facing out is it considered a sign or if it's mounted on the front glass is it considered a sign if it's outside if it's if it's inside then it's on their property it's on the inside I mean like it's on their building on the outside M it's advertisement I'm just thinking about the lease for leas I don't think no we have we have in the sign ordinances for leas signs are not feed so that four sale signs four lease signs do not have feed in our sign ordinance itself so we do need to clarify that because that would be because the empty building's already costing them money yeah I that that's an undue burden that we're not going to do a sign that's up for two days charging $130 per sign when they're putting five or six up to point in the direction of a garage sale or an open house or

something I I think that's unreasonable garage sale those signs are open house all of that I I think 130 per sign's unre is unreasonable I think you should do it by dimension of sign can't do that well you could but that get so convoluted again especially because we're fixing to go to a computerized system where you'll be able to log in and here's the permit that I need pay it and turn it out go down the road I'm okay with saying that if you're hanging up a sign that is an advertisement for your build business like the western store has or or love and am in or ped um that it is say hey my my name is changed or building a new business or something that is attached to the building and is bigger than the little yard sign things that yeah I'm okay with saying there's $130 fee for that I'm not sure I'm okay with saying that I put a sign on a corner pointing somebody to an open house and then I put a sign on another Corner pointing that the open house is to the right $130 per for for times two I'm not no no no it's not times two it would be one permit one permit to point some so so for so if they were putting up five signs it's or they were putting up one sign it's 130 because it's the processing but it's a yard sign so maybe there's a difference between a a realtor signs get charged

every time they put okay should should they well You' got Sheldon homes that's got them up every weekend if he's having to pull every weekend I'm having to do a temporary permit every we every weekend every weekend is he getting permit mhm he did last week but he wasn't happy about finding out so there's 52 weeks in a year so I have to fill this out every time and I said I don't like it any better than you do could and I'm thinking you're getting paid to do it yeah you're we're not charging you anything for it yeah the permit is free for the right now yeah that's what I'm saying we're losing that and what what's the purpose of the permit make sure the sign placements are at the right place just like the one that was out in front of the Expo that the Expo said go ahead and put it out front didn't say don't put it in the right way is there any way to say in there like a a time frame you know it's $75 or $130 for for three months this many days something like that yeah can't do three months ordance allows it for one month out of three okay consecutive days in every 90day period is the exact wording okay so again I'm okay with that when it's on the building I'm struggling with what to do with these directionally y signs that that I think that situation you're describing is unreasonable for

you and him well per for the ordinance the way I just understood it 30 days out of every 90 days consecutive cons cons days and every right he's got to do it again for the next week okay that's what I was going to ask yeah the western stores got their hung up so so Starbucks had a sign hung up for let's call it a month and then they had to CH take that sign down Starbucks was not I got just saying the western store has a sign I mean the PIP had to sign up for three five five years well but you still have not saying anything I'm just saying where we're trying to go to so love and amen and all of that those are temporary businesses signs saying this is my name while I'm waiting for a permanent sign then there's the signs that are fundraiser signs or are directional to help get somebody to a place sign that is only up for a couple of days perfect one's the Youth Sports League theirs were up for three weeks what if I have it up for 29 days I take it down and then on the 31st day go again yeah can I do that gray area let's not go there I'm not city council I'm not the one that's the same thing that this guy's doing taking it down every week because he's getting a new permit every time and so he's that's why I think that we need to change that because I think that that it's an awful lot of work and paperwork processing that and keeping track of okay well when was the sign supposed to come down I'm one person the ordinance needs to be

changed it used to be 90 days there was a person that switched it to 30 and my whole thing was just stop letting it be years um so I say that if we're going to do $130 for these yard signs that that's good for 30 days and then they have to reapply a little yard sign if they're putting 60 of them up yeah if it's just one then they need to get a permit for every one of them no that's what they're saying is that's one permit it's one permit you just got to write all the locations them out or up Texas drive down 67 but the realtor side at the corner of Lexy Street the one that's been there yeah that that got a permit Realtors don't get have to have permits okay all right just clarify that makes sense why not there business if they are selling an actual house an individual house by the state this guy selling houses any he but he's selling the sign company that is he's trying to get them up to the development you've got act houses that are a third party like I understand what you're saying I'm the Builder and you want a street sign company I hire you to do it gotta it's third party so if it's my house I'm building it I can put a sign up no fee gotcha what if I'm just the

contractor on the property and you want to put a sign up you got have a permit okay well I mean I we getting okay do we all agree that a fee of 130 for a sign that is a banner attached and announcing a store name not directional but a store name or something temporary sign that's a temporary sign right one30 30 days we're done I think now you got to get Council to change that Ordinance one thing I time I think that considering these yard directional signs or something of that nature as a temp business sign we need to redefine that because I think that we've just made way too much paperwork for staff for something that in order to keep up with the expense of that is ridiculous is it a problem now what or what is the problem well right now they're doing this because they are required by our ordinances to have these things so this is another one of those we need to change an ordinance thing but what is the problem of the temporary sign like the yard signs and things like that is there a problem we have so many people that are putting them up in areas it's like one put on people's personal property they're third party company I get that well just in general you should have the property owner permission to do it now whether you're doing that right it's

like the yard signs I just did for the weekend and like okay you should have property owner permission putting them up Texas drive right and if Tex do comes and pulls those or the property owner pulls them right you lose correct okay so we're going to come back around to that okay all right certificate of appropriateness we do not charge for it you're not going to be able to do that we're going to have to suck that up somewhere else it just in the no I got you it's just it's just one of those ones that we're gonna have to suck that up somewhere else but we also don't have mailings and that go with that correct right so that Fe math is probably that probably should go up to Yellow as opposed to okay uh mechanical repair so mechanical repair would include what in this concept your hpac goes out and they come and redo the the compressor on I don't know that I have that when you come in for repair yeah usually don't there's no way you can monitor

that because they come in and they do an you know they do a Diagnostics on it and then you have no clue until they do diagnostics as to what the problem is whether it's low on Freon or even replacing water heater or air conditioning unit um how are you going to know I can agree with if you're replacing a full system a permit sure right but here's the issue with water heater that's Plumbing they do it incorrectly it can back feed into the system and kill people so that one's got to have a permit back feed into what system okay so hang on hang on okay let's start with the so under mechanical we're talking about HVAC so air conditioning repairs flux capacitors you know switches fuses thermostats come on we're not getting we're not getting per pulled by anybody for that no yep bet okay I had a water heat right there done yesterday well it turns out our inspector did not check the um the vent on our roof when I had it installed and the wrong vent was installed and it let water into my system and it burnt out the ex the heating Exchange

so a whole brand new tankless heater had to be replaced that's why you have hot water but guarantee they didn't come down here and pull a permit they and if I who was I can report him to the stay let's not do that the trucks were in front of my in my building all day yesterday everybody asked me what was going on um so I think that from a definition of mechanical repair we need to be realistic there's a repair and then there's a full replacement um repair I just don't see peace meal repairs on hvx getting anybody coming in getting permits is there truly danger if somebody's changing out a fuse Scott is just Scott's watching he just gave me a thing to tell you um I don't see anybody coming in capacitors compressors I just don't see I don't think any residential air guy has ever come in and pull a permit from one of those in somebody's house and you know that that happens all the time they're supposed to are they supposed to per code of the international construction code or is that they're supposed to and I'm not the code person I couldn't tell

you I'm not beat on the ground is Bad Air okay so we leave it there and just understand we're not going to actually have all right it's there but we're all agreeing that enforcement of that is not our priority so you getting Cod code enforcer yeah okay no because it goes back to building inspector okay hang on what else falls under mechanical gas so mechanical is just HVAC or you said vent hood for commercial properties yeah she got okay fire suppression vent hoods okay so that would need to go to 130 and the average of only 14 pulled a a year at a average rate of $94 okay that's telling me that's the vent Hood repairs right there okay all right mechanical miscellaneous what would that entail I know we talked about this that this just kind of a cast off for one that was there was a blank item so I just called it miscellaneous I didn't know what else to do with it so it probably is part of the mechanical repair and if we mer those two lines together prob it's probably there okay Windows window replacement window repair window new be anything for window repair Replacements yeah so and I'm sure you can see that not

many have been pulled for no and again you're telling me that this is National Standard interal standard energy code that a window replacement because he needs to see the sticker on it to confirm that it's yeah okay but again I think I've done one window replacement perm close and the time I've been here we look at replacing our windows and because it's historical and when they came in it was $3,500 a window yep oh Crescent Building Supply Crescent Building Supply yeah mine was $1,000 a window oh wow well we didn't go with yeah after I looked at well that's our retirement right there I uh not gonna take out another I have wood Fray but I do have a metallic track okay and it conformed to what the state allowed me to do for preservation Crescent Building Crescent yeah Crescent Lumber is actually what it's called right Crescent Lumber uh yeah there's Lumber and Hardware Lumber and hinson's metal okay well I did is it Hinson in Crescent the big yard Hinson that's where it was hon now they did all they they did Windows okay um fences just as a time check yes um we're on how how are we doing we're okay we're almost there I've got a 400 a.m. I got you got fence I absolutely believe that we need a fence inspection because you have to make sure it's on property lines because there's too many times our fences have been built not on property lines I think

you need to put something in here for retaining walls okay retaining walls over four feet why why is four feet the number code anything up to four feet doesn't have to be how close can a retaining wall be built to the property line can it be on depends on the ordinance if it's on the property line I think you should have a permit for okay any of them okay we we'll look at that for the same reason for the same reason for fences yeah make sure yeah got it makes sense we might have had some issues with retaining walls yeah okay I've seen some doozies irrigation and back flow it's another one that right now the average has been $84 but to cover cost it would be$ 130 now is this sprinkler systems is that what you call irrigation and that yes okay and you have to make sure that well this one because it can if the water goes back into the water supply well it's just like 7-Eleven or any of the restaurants have a back flow on there so the okay yeah okay okay what is move there's been cases where something is back flowed back into the system and it's killed like 60 to 100 people whoa because it contaminated yeah that's we have to have the commercial yeah in commercial we have to

make sure like all of our um water and sewage cannot backf flow um yeah all of our water water trucks you know you can't put the hose all the way down in there now that's back the word the word just says move that's house relocation oh moving moving a property a a physical house house house move move you know okay okay you're saying that we on average have only had one and it was a $40 fee that's $130 permit was what it would be that I would think need to be higher than that if you're lifting a physical property and moving it whether it's a Sheed or you're going down streets you have all this other stuff and then you have to make sure that it is that is all coordinated through the Mover okay our big thing is the paperwork for the permit there's an inspection to make sure that all the utilities are disconnected and then once they move it to go back and make sure that everything's cleaned up it's kind of like that so it's a but it's a two visit well that doesn't take into account Public Works having to go Public Works generally will pull a meter or make sure it's disconnected I feel like

$300 is nothing if you're lifting and moving a physical property from one plot to another that's the far as dwellings go yes but what if it's like a storage building accessory building but you can dis those then right yeah distinguish those you can say something what 10 100 square feet and smaller is one feet and anything over that or 200 or 300 500 5 under one and I wouldn't even differentiate that just uh inhabitable versus non inhabitable okay there you go I can go with that makes sense because you can use some accessory buildings to turn into a tiny gu okay so an inhabitable an inhabitable you say habitable and non-habitable say that fast three times please or you say uninhabitable okay so a habitable building move really talking about two or three visits so $3 to $500 where do we fall I have no reference point I mean what what does it take to make sure it's safe to do that's what the purpose is well so his time half hour but you're now at you're at an hour and a half but you also have to put in the risk of it not being properly inspected I mean there is a fee for looking but like

the moving company would take responsibility for right so if it's an if it's habitable and they're moving it they're doing it for a reason right means it's a good condition correct 500 okay if it's not inhabitable and it's not a good condition save $300 and tear it down all it off in dumpsters what are the permits for that what for demo yeah 130 probably say yeah it's going to be 130 yeah so say $300 for an uninhabitable moving 500 for a habitable moving okay I'm good okay permanent sign needs to be one 30 it's been averaging 106 what would fall under building repair okay Li and siding yeah stuff like that roof no roof roof a separate thing okay so replacing siding underpinning if it's p and beam that's found it's averaging $413 right now we could bring that down to 130 we see a reason not to structural issues W repairs Flor repairs

hiding window and door repairs gutter CH so you're saying subfloor repairs drywall repair ceiling no no drywall repairs I'm not going to sit here and say you need a a thing no subf floors underpinning siding replacement I'm good with okay Foundation Foundation yeah Foundation needs to be separate Foundation should be separate okay what about these are interior things and I don't think I had a foundation on there but it should be 137 as well separate section for like driveways there is not do you think driveway needs something on our current list page six of 11 you've got approach yeah but I don't know how that was in our system if it was under building or yeah it's just a separate there's Foundation repairs too because I just pulled yeah so I put foundation repair in here I pulled off of that citizen serve Okay so I don't know how it's all lumped together a specific use permit is another one that it would be 130 but we've got the mailing that we need to deal with so we need to relook at that okay mechanical additions right now it's been averaging $680 but we're saying we can bring it down to

130 and that's basically you're adding the room and extending your HBC I got it okay wiring and plumbing under separate things then for that okay uh plumbing repair replace so again this is um if we're moving from PVC to PEX or we're doing sure gets backed up and they got to go in and dig it out and it's rusted out line repair yeah or new sewer just yeah new sewer Lines no leak repair is not part of that okay so having to change a cartridge in a shower is not going to be in this but if you are replacing piping it will be okay okay that's 130 okay electrical repair that's if we are dealing with um lightning strike takes out your panel okay so it's really about panels panels it's not about or if you're rewiring a house if you're rewiring then it yeah it gets a permit because that goes back to life safety again right okay and so that would be 130 which we've been averaging 423 roof is this roof small repair roof big repair or roof anything that happens on

the roof commercial or residential okay what what is your thought on roof is it anything it doesn't matter the size no but is it if I'm replacing a few shingles or I'm fixing so this is redoing the entire roof redoing the entire roof what if I'm only doing a quarter of the roof it's still got to be and we can adjust so if you're that okay we can go okay if you're just doing that much we can bump it back to type a which would be the $60 whatever it is okay so this that's the joy of this yeah it gives us the the freedom to go back and go okay here's here's the cost that is going to cost you okay so we're saying that roof is 130 right now it's been averaging 150 you're saying if we look at this from a residential to a commercial are you thinking that mainly because of size or because of material or because [Music] of livelihood of the resident a business is a business residential is a person okay so what are your thoughts on a fee for then roof commercial if 130 is the residential if it's a complete redo it's definitely going to take a lot longer with inspections so it's probably at least an hour on an inspection as opposed to half hour so we're probably

should be talking 130 225 250 225 250 I think 250 I was going to say 25 okay all right you have the word alteration alteration to what I don't know I'm asking St whatever it is it's $815 on average right now so it's a big one alteration um set it scope alteration or a building alteration only thing I can think of would be commercial your alter so this would be the Glenn Wilson stuff if we were using putting [Music] in you're altering the building use and the layouts when you're moving your walls yeah okay altering altering commercial space yeah I'm going to have to well we're g to work on that yeah remodel but I don't think commercial remodel yeah commercial remodel okay I'm good with that okay I think that that again is one that probably takes more time than just a normal half hour inspection so that shouldn't be the 130 multiple inspections yeah so that that needs to be higher mhm anything commercial needs to be higher so we've been averaging 800 on that that seems that probably if you if that's the history on it that sounds like a good number to land

on yeah no yeah okay commercial demolition we've averaged $56 but we need 130 to cover cost I think that's fine residential demolition we have averaged $45 but we need 130 to to cover cost okay new mechanical it's been 200 is an average but you're going to say 130 it's going to be 1:30 but I honestly again think this should be commercial versus residential gu never got his inspection at the hospital did he a final and he's done with the HC so I'm still thinking we're probably in that 300 range on a commercial for new mechanical and then a residential would be the 130 yeah that's basically one inspection and paperwork yeah Plumbing remodel what's the difference in a plumbing remodel versus a plumbing repair a repair is an emergency we said repair was like sewer line problems replacing your piping right so a remodel would be if you turn out the whole bathroom and and moving moving the sink or shower even

put in the new tub cuz you're going to be changing the upgrading from clay pipe to pip okay I got it all right so it's been averaging 115 we need 130 is that reasonable do we need to be higher on that probably because it's multiple inspections multiple inspections or 250 commercial this is right now it's just an average so it would be both yeah because you've got rough in top out final at least three three inspections and that's whether it's commercial or residential and honestly in that case a commercial is probably not going to be commercial is going to be more inspections than that because they can do it in sections and call multiple inspections should it be by bathroom then cuz it's not just going to be bathrooms it's kitchens it's this it's that okay ISD no I don't want to do we want to get that whole by fix not fixture I mean like toilet or shower fixture okay so if we said residential square footage we said residential you're talking two maybe three four places that you're having to inspect right commercial you could be talking a lot six 200 400 200 400s yeah okay if there's a residential commercial difference yeah we'll do that

again feel like I'm on the Doge team cutting out waste and overspending yeah we'll just call you Mr musky all right so then the same thing with electric difference is we didn't apply AI to go through this right we should have huh well you could have uploaded the spreadsheet and in the copilot yeah and then uh or any any of them now as long as you've got a file and then put the promp and criteria on and help you uh determine uh Fair fee structures and then have search other communities that do that I wouldn't trust it trust this better okay it's based on our new electrical well you can put your actual cost in and have it then figured out B new electrical want to do the same commercial and residential two4 yep so these permits and inspections they really just for the safety betterment in the whole Community not just property correct okay addition we were averaging 646 that's got to be commercial because you have so on an addition if we're looking commercial or residential you're

looking at the building plans you're looking at drainage you're looking at everything that affects the plat you're looking at parking you're looking at roof joining you're looking at the whole K Kaboodle so we're going to divide again residential and Commercial 25500 I think in commercial it's probably a bit more than that yeah about 750 for commercial and then residential 25300 there's at least four inspections plus probably a good hour of plan review so minimum is 300 minimum 300 350 400 put it in four four I'm trying to keep them all grouped yeah you go that Mak sense to you makees sense to you then commercial the 800 because we already was doing commercial remodeling at 800 Edition probably be more than that

okay remember you're already going to get a plumbing fee you're getting your electrical fee you're getting your H fact fee mechanical fee because we don't validate I'm sorry what we don't validate like some some towns will validate under a building permit clus okay we don't do that okay so I'm just saying so we're getting so in a commercial addition or commercial remodel so commercial remodel we said 800 commercial addition you're going to be looking at things along the way the HVAC the plumbing the electrical so do you need a 800 is enough to cover your review time and everything else because are you're already when you do your plat review you're looking at the electrical you're looking at the I mean you're looking at what they're supposed to be doing and then you're doing the permit and inspection on did they match the plan and the plan was to code I've got at least eight inspections okay at least if you're looking at dirt work you're looking at undergrown rebar concrete framing structural so that's $1,040 at130 a piece that reasonable okay right so $1,100 okay new

Plumbing a new re we did two and four for electrical we did two and four for plumbing remodel so two and four for new Plumbing okay you have new residential it just says new residential so I'm assuming that that's the general permit General permit General building permit which is priming slab all that so do you need a residential and Commercial version on that and I should have already have that in there because the very bottom one in dark blue should have been new commercial I see it yeah okay because I know it's more expensive okay so on the residential it was running 1756 on average I probably didn't add enough inspections on it so I know you didn't cuz you're back at the 130 Mark again so we need to add up to that so if we're saying that a addition to residential is 400 that's got to be at least 1,500 for a new what what was it averaging 1756 our current or new residential build is 65 cents per square foot yeah so I'm thinking we take the average 1750 well I've had contractors tell me they're paying 15,000 for permanence okay so that's not

here I like County that's not here and I know we're not trying to gouge or anything but I'm thinking 2000 would be fair I mean what is it costing a 32 what you're when you're building a house right now you're building what about an 1,800 2500 square foot M lab the the actual cost of of goods on it is 150 or so oh don't get me Lon I don't know he plays in the sand say say say he's a diggy dirt he's a I know but he knows the other stuff so I'm saying construction materials not necessarily all labors construction materials just based on 150 to 200 yeah so yeah 2,000 doesn't seem like an unreasonable number no we've had a builder say you should increase your fees yeah well then it suck that I can guess some like that all right so commercial new commercial we have been averaging about 55 66 let's just call it [Music] 5600 so this is one where again when we look at it it that number can vary so greatly based off size and I know that if we ever have like an industrial area where some of these big tilt wall comes in those could run $20,000 for a

permit so how do we I mean I don't see any way around a commercial permit fee for this without looking at it based off size I just don't see how we so let's go back and you and I I mean some somewhere so let's say them because we've talked about this before if we look at minimum sizes we came back with um waterburger and Starbucks oh was the square footage we were talking about two under 3,000 square feet so I think you've got to have a SI a permit fee for a size like that and then a permit fee for dollar warehouses or warehous general or something like that so we've always kind of looked at it as a 2500 a 5,000 and then above or you could just have a per square foot fee could we on this one I'd raise it from 65 C well the 65 cents is based has been based off of residential only gotcha commercial would be page one which is based on the dollar valuation you can't do that anymore so that was me going okay so we have a $750,000 job valuation no that's residential you can't do valuation you can still do on Commercial I I I I think we need to look at it so either either doing it as a per square foot fee still have or we got to do it in some groupings so this is a workshop which

allows us to kind of play with this talk it out and come back for a final vote I think we need to look at that I think we need to look at it as a per square foot fee but it needs to be we need to make sure what that square foot fee is is that we look at what it costs us to inspect the waterb the Taco Bell the Starbucks and make sure that we're covering that cost more like the condos that's going to be well that's going to be yeah okay all right we have some good ideas thank you see we accomplished something huge here so with that said this was the workshop so we don't actually have any motions or anything we'll come back with all these things all right having no further business is there anybody with further business having no further business before the commission this meeting is adjourned at 735 great I'm looking something up on feeds we're done oh we're done of