Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

I got seven. All the postcards from the trash about the trash so I can call and say I'm going to need trash bins when I move in. I want to have the trash bin ready. Mhm.

Like to call the uh Monday, March 9th meeting of the planning and zoning commission to order. Roll call, please. Gina. Roco Gonzalez here. Mark Pontek here. Mayor Hecador here. John Bortman here. Chuck Watson here. Chad Briggs here. Carolyn Wit here. Mike Wood here. Ken Shear here. back home here. Please rise and join me. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America

and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I hope everyone's had the opportunity to read the rather lengthy minutes from our last meeting and I would entertain a motion to approve. Uh before I got one minor change on page 12 a comment that I had made the last sentence there is quite a bit of and you've got great down there and it should be grade is what I had said page 12 page 12 of the minutes quite a bit

the last line of of that paragraph of mine says there is quite a bit of great down there it should be Agreed. All right, I got it. Any other corrections? And I would entertain a motion. I'll make a motion to approve. I'll second. Motion made and seconded that we approve the minutes from the February 9th meeting. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. I. Opposed. Eyes have it. Item number three, file number 26-0304, preliminary development plan, Parkway Estates, Fox Crest PDR.

Yes. Uh, good evening, commission. This is the uh third stage here for the uh Parkway Estates uh preliminary development uh residential here that we've uh got down off of Fox Drive um just south of Target there. Um, once again, subject property about uh 7 acres here. And uh the applicants actually have a uh different plan um that they got to me earlier today. Um and so how this will work is um the the old plan is technically what is still submitted before you but the applicants are requesting that you um approve this new plan as as a condition onto the old plan. So you you basically direct the uh that the final development plan follows this plan instead of this one. So um just some just a technicality because of when it was submitted. So this is what the applicants would like um you all to to consider tonight. Um so that being said, there are a number of changes um between uh last month and this month. Um most notable is the an increased number of units. Um before we had 78 proposed town homes. Now we've got 83. Um a few of the alleys have also been um reworked as you can see on that west side there. um just lengthen lengthened that alley a little bit more and uh squeezed in a few more units um through there. And then um these uh these town homes on the east have been reoriented um slightly moved uh further west a little bit uh due to some grading issues um on the east side of uh that property with with the hill leading up to those lots on North Crest uh Drive. Um, let's see. Uh, these let's

these town homes here um instead of having uh rear entry detached garages, their garages will be um in in the unit themselves and they'll have uh driveways here as shown on the plan. Um let's see. And I think those are all the changes that were made. Um still uh 30 foot right 30ft streets um or a 30ft street um connecting all the units 12T alleys um two required parking spaces. I guess the applicant did clarify that there is a 5-ft setback um uh for all of the for uh on on all sides except for the attached units of course. Um oh it's six foot. Okay, my bad. Sorry. six six foot setback on all sides. Um and um let's see. I guess I guess staff staff had some concerns about um the the the alley width and um due to uh em potential um EMS and trash collection issues. Um staff is also recommending that uh the uh the the guest parking um let's see where are we? the guest parking right here um be reoriented to the south side of the de the development. And uh staff is also recommending that um the the developer or the applicant add a sidewalk on the uh other side of the street due to um asking for exceptions um you know to our our standard sort of uh setback requirements. And um yeah, I guess I'll let the the applicants uh speak their piece and uh you can ask ask questions after they're they're done. So go for it.

Good evening. Uh Todd Meyer with Houston Homes. So uh thank you Aaron for the summary. Um I would point out I don't know if I can use your pointer. Aaron pointed out the um some of the uh the units here that were converted to what we call tuck under parking. Uh the same is true for these units here. Uh so the detached garage that you see here, uh this is a a much deeper lot uh because it has a driveway and then a garage here. here. You know, we've got a 20 foot uh 25 foot driveway uh at a minimum. Um some of these are more like 30 uh because of the sawtooth edge on the back of here. Uh but this this allowed us to uh shorten uh the uh lots for these two units uh these two banks of units uh here and here. And the reason that we did that was that uh after the engineering plans were completed uh we uh understood that the grade falling through that unit uh made them a walkout uh unit as opposed to an ingrade type unit. So uh we that's the reason that we made that modification. Um and uh the other uh thing that that we're uh looking at is uh you know obviously trying to double load that alley. Uh and the the right of way that has been established for those alleys is 20 ft wide. Uh so if there is uh a need for you know uh any kind of emergency vehicle that you know needs more room uh or need maybe needs to uh you know pass

by something there there would be space on either side of the alleys. Um in terms of the parking uh the reason that we have the parking on this side is that this is uh where are the mailboxes would go. Uh so we as you know many of the new communities do not have an individual mailbox in front of the house. We do the uh you know the the case of boxes uh for centralized delivery and pickup. So uh that's one reason uh is that our mailboxes would go here. The other reason is that um on this side uh these are all driveways. So these are all front loaded units. Uh so we really cannot put the parking on on that south side of of the drive. Uh and that's really the same reason for the sidewalk. We felt like it was uh ample for the uh the community of this size or the neighborhood of this size to have the sidewalk on this inside edge uh and and really not sort of crossing over all of these uh driveways on the external uh side uh or the the outer perimeter if you will. Um and then uh one other thing uh just to call your attention to would be um at this end these units uh are currently shown uh as uh having an outdoor parking pad. Uh those would be an option to have a garage uh if you wanted one. Uh what we're trying to do is really promote uh affordability uh and having people to be able to get into uh these units at a at a reasonable cost. So, uh, we we would, uh, we'd like to sort of test and see, you know, how that goes with these units and then, uh, you know, at this end, then look at, uh, the option, uh, of of adding, uh, garage

versus, you know, an outdoor parking pad. But, as Aaron mentioned, each unit has a minimum of two uh, off- streetet uh, parking spaces associated with it. That's good. Any commissioners have any questions? So your your mail all all of the units will get the mail from that one spot right there is what centralized mail and and we we do this in most of our communities where it's um it it uh it's easier for the mail delivery. it's quicker uh for so the US Postal Service actually uh right

prefers it now. Uh what we found in in our communities too is that it becomes kind of a natural sort of gathering spot or social hub of the community which is what that central lawn is really designed to do. Um we envision you know people having events and parties and and kids running around there. So, um, that's that's sort of reinforcing kind of the the central node of the plan, if you will. Will you have it undercover in some way rather than just the box sitting there? The mailboxes. Yeah, generally they're just uh open air. Just open air. Uh-huh.

So, I'm going to stand up for this one because it's too hard to turn my neck that way. But, so, if I understood you correctly, this is going to be 20 foot then. these alleys. Did you mention that it's 12 foot of paved within a 20 foot ride ofway is how it's uh laid out right now. So you decided not to go and pursue the 20ft alley requirement the city is requesting.

Well, our yeah our discussions have been uh looking at uh the the 12-oot alley uh in lie of sprinklering all the units. So in the discussion with the fire chief that was the uh the preference was to uh to actually go with the the sprinkler units uh was was his preference. So So you're proposing then to sprinkle all the units in the complex?

Well, at a minimum the ones that would be off of the alley that don't have a street in front of them. uh the we haven't received clarification yet of whether all the units would need to be sprinkled, but at a minimum the ones that are facing the park there. Okay. So that that takes care of the fire service in that area. What about trash and

snow removal EMS that issue with streets and Alex? So that's that's what that extra space on either side of the the 12 foot within that 20 foot rideaway. That's where the trash cans would go for the the recycling and the trash pickup uh and whatnot. We envision the snow we envision the snow, you know, you come in and you just push the snow right out onto Fox Crust and then it gets cleared from there. So, we're we're not anticipating that uh you know, snow snow would be piled up uh you know, too much in the development, but you could on the on the one that that sort of curves in from the right there uh where it tees into that other alley, you know, you see the space between the units, you know, that would be a an ideal place for for snow.

So, would that be curb and gutter on that 12 foot? No. Okay. Concrete just flat surface concrete. Yep. So really you don't you're not gaining you mentioned that that area could be driven on. It couldn't be you couldn't drive on any of that 20 foot easement because it would be yard if you need to. It's it's it's right away but yeah couldn't drive on it.

Yeah. Right. And the alleyways are going to be HOAs to maintain. Correct. The city's not going to maintain those. That our understanding was that those would go be city maintained as well. staff's staff's recommendation is, you know, well, I mean, a staff's recommendation is really that they should be 20 ft, but if they are if the planning commission, you know, recommends and council approves that they are uh less than that uh that the HOA does take care of uh maintenance of those alleys. Yes, that's that's been the standard. Other places in town that

where is that in other places in town? Hi Acres, all the city acres they the whoever the developer was when he was before my time but um it was approved city street. Yeah, but it isn't. It's a private. Is that correct, Darren? Didn't you have issues with that recently? If you're talking about Let me ask Are you asking the U Turtle Creek east of of Rabbit Trail units, right? And they those areas back behind there. Yeah. That's privately maintained. Yeah. Because that ca they came to us and said, "Why aren't we being treated as a city street?" No, the one that you're talking about is uh Turtle Creek.

Turtle Creek. Turtle Creek, that development that that the street went through to go ahead and service all of those units, that was originally developed to be private and then it remained that way probably for 20 plus years. And then now the residents that live in there would like the city to go ahead and take over. And then th those that area just east off of Rabbit Trail is those Yes. those those units, those original units, the areas in the back that is that the city does not maintain that. The city only maintains Rabbit Trail. Again, those are not those are not alleys. Those are private streets. And the same thing when you go private access to

right when you go south on uh Rabbit Trail, um those short things by Lake Washington, are all private seats all the way until you get to close to Staten. Correct. I'm trying to think of where you're talking about your I'll just I'll pull up a map. How about that? where Washington starts up and and Haziator stops the duplexes and whatnot that are on the west side of where we Oh, the Ambridge Drive and Brighton Drive. Those are those private those are privately maintained. Those are all private streets. They're not an alleyway again though either. They do not maintain. So those are basically just like

there's two of them down there where where Aaron's pulling them up right there. Yeah, those are privately maintained. Ambridge Lane and Brighton. Again, those are just private streets just like Turtle Creek. Those are all private streets. They're not alleys. Correct. Were they built to city standards though as far as width? No. But no, they weren't built to city standards on Ambridge and Brighton were both I think something less than I mean if they could have built them to that I think it was a matter they were able at the time to squeeze more units in per square foot. I get that. That's that's a sacrifice that was made,

right? But if you go back to Sal made the comment at one point in time for Weber Heights Drive going east, ended up in a culde-sac. If they would have had those streets there as standard width, they could have gone with Weber Heights and connected to one of those. But because that was a private street and it was too narrow, there was no way that they were going to ever connect that to there. And they were not even I mean the the u the crosssection of the street itself was not built to sit down, right? But that's what he said. If those things would have been just stubbed out, right,

and to the to the spec for the street, they could have they could have connected Weber Heights Drive straight over there instead of needing to jog over. clarification with with Carol that Turtle Creek was was a situation where um and the issue too that we would have had in there is that you see those homes, they go right up to the edge of Turtle Creek and that was the issue too that the city had and those property owners I think owned at the center line of that that easement that goes through there. Correct. They'd have to turn that over that right away over to the city. We didn't have enough and then you have you would have those homes that are right up to the edge of it. So Erin, are you able to scale Ambridge? I saw you doing a distance there a while ago. Uh you able to determine that with that

the the width of the street? The width of the street? Yeah. Looked to be about 26 ft. 26. That's what I thought. Or 20 20 Yeah, 26. About 26 feet. Yeah. Is that what that's the the width of our current fire lane requirement? Correct. Y correct. Any other questions? Comments? Erin, I could you give me a little clarification on what the staff's view was on the parking, you know, moving that parking to the south side of the street?

Yeah, that was more so uh to uh to to so so the sidewalk doesn't have to do an awkward jog there. Um so it can just be free free flowing. you know, obviously if the that that was kind of a a low priority recommendation in the grand scheme of things, but if at all possible, um that's that's a recommend something staff would like to see. Yeah. And I want to my name's Kurt owner, so I want to address that. Uh Erin, we plan on putting a ADA ramp in line with that. So to make this a walk community,

those those um crosssection sidewalks will interconnect. So, you know, in a small scale wasn't quite shown. We get into final engineered detail. You'll be able to walk. You don't have to walk in on L's if but you're there going to be a piece of sidewalk there. So, when you park and go up and get your mail, you got a piece of sidewalk to walk on, but you can walk straight across to. Good deal. Yeah. Okay. And then the only other thing for the staff suggestion really would be developing more sidewalk on the southern part. Correct. And is that just I guess to enhance walkability or

Yeah. I mean, frankly, you know, there's 83 units in in this development and you've got a lot of people nearby at uh you know, who are are going to be living very close to this development in uh uh Stonebridge, you know, and uh Phoenix Park is right there. and the as part of the, you know, new firehouse, they've they've built a a path right to Phoenix Park. So, um, you know, because the the developer is asking for, you know, all of these extra exceptions to our to our zoning, we felt it was an appropriate place to maybe ask for another sidewalk. Um, and that's that's a condition uh you all can can impose. Um, so yes,

Erin, you were wanting a sidewalk on both sides of the main street there that loops through that, correct? Mhm. I guess my only concern with that is you have a lot of driveways that are crossing sidewalk. Absolutely. And pedestrian traffic in vehicle traffic areas to where if it's just on the north side, you only have that happening. Sure. For that uh Yeah. I guess I guess I would

alley. Sure. I guess I would argue, you know, people are going to walk in the street regardless, you know, even if you only have one sidewalk or or not. I I think it's just better to, you know, keep as many people, you know, obviously there's going to be people who want to walk in the street, but, you know, um to give people options to walk on walk on both sides of the street. And I I I appreciate you you bringing that up.

Yeah, I Yeah, I kind of agree with John. I mean, it's like you're you're you know, the people backing out of the drive, you know, are going to be increased, you know, chances of hitting somebody there that, you know, because of not being able to see all the time or whatever and stuff, too. But you've got, you know, so many fewer driveways on the other side of the street that that are going to actually the sidewalk even crosses and stuff like that. It's just I don't see the benefit at all of of putting them on that side there.

Yeah. The the engineer uh who laid this out, he recommended that put the sidewalk on the inside circle just for that safety issue of of pedestrians, moms and baby strollers, dads and babies pushing baby strollers, not paying attention, backing out. Sidewalk on the inside. And again, this is going to be the most sidewalk built development in the city limits history in city of Washington history with all the sidewalks we have here. So that was the reason to put it on the inside loop and not put it where you would back over somebody and that would be the edge that would also have the no parking. I was going to say where were you going for the parking then? Because it's just one side of the street, right? Well, parking on one side and that on the side with the sidewalk. Correct.

Because you have driveways on the other one so it doesn't do you any good there. Yep. Yeah. which makes sense that way it's, you know, people aren't around any vehicular traffic.

A question I had, um, you've got continue the privacy fence south to lot 14. Oh, yes. Let me let me bring up the uh the engineered plans and maybe the applicants can talk to this. Now, 83 lots. I'm not sure exactly which ones you're referring to now and stop relative to that still or yeah let me pull this up point now or what

um okay where are we let's see Okay. Yeah. So, these are the engineered plans of the old uh design, but I I don't know. So, are you are I guess this is a question for the the applicant. You had indicated that you know there's a there's a retaining wall right here um you know and a a fence on it. Is that still in in the cards or what what are you planning to do for uh screening on on this this this east side of the the development here?

The east side. I think the buffer zone requirements are either a fence or a landscaping. Correct.

Um, in talking to Todd and Houston, they would prefer to to maximize the flat ground behind those units to the east. So we we're working on modifying that grading plan to steepen the slope but make it a basically um good example is right across from subway on Highway 100 when we did that highway work for MDOT. We value engineered that eliminated the retaining wall saved the city $600,000 and that slope looks as good as the day it went in. So that's what I told them is let's go ahead and look along those lines. steep in the slope, fabric it, rip wrap it, and you still can plant trees and bushes in it. And as far as the the landscaping against the current R1 resident, we would probably put a fence in that corner as shown.

So, a f Yeah, you're saying you're saying you would put a fence right here as as the plan shows, correct? And then steepen this grade here and then plant plant landscaping trees at the at the property line to the folks to the east there. Okay. And that would but I one of the things we wanted to talk to him about is I know one of the gentlemen that bought a lot from me. He didn't want his view impeded. Sure. He he he had concerns of what I was going to build it behind him. And he said, "Hey, you're not going to block my view to the west. I want to sit out on my deck and overlook the town." And I said, "We shouldn't build anything that high." So, last thing I want to do is put a tree there that he's going to end up cutting down because it's blocking his views. So,

sure. But I mean, as far as like bushes and, you know, low shrubberies and things like that, I'm sure, uh, you know, we'll have a a good Sure. Yeah. break between the two developments. So, Okay.

Gotcha. Yeah. I guess I guess staff's recommendation was and you know if you know if the the the the developer can uh match that is to you know just kind of continue this fence um along the the the eastern boundary to you know kind of provide some additional screening um for for these units and also to continue the the fence south here um to lot 14 here. So you would have the let me let me go to the new plan. Um you would um the fence. So right now it currently is right here right there.

Yeah. And so staff's recommendation is to ensure that it's you know hereish. Um if if if that's a condition the the commission wish wishes to code requires either landscape buffer or fence. Correct. That is correct. Yes. So, we'll comply with that. Okay. So, what would the fence look like if you would decide to go that route? To me, that usually I think it's just a white vinyl fence. That's what I would white vinyl fence. So, we think we can do a better job landscaping wise. I'm thinking um uh purple lilac bushes look good. Cythia bushes look good. So

I think I would rather see the a landscape the buffer there rather than a white fence all along that hole and I think the neighbors out there trying to make it more residential than more of an industrial look. So if that you think that that would meet staff's sure yeah approval. Yeah that's we just we we hadn't seen anything so we were going with what was what was there.

We'll comply with that landscape buffer requirement. Um, I really appreciate you guys trying to save money on the western side of those town houses. I guess it's the Grove Town Homes that uh with the parking pad instead of a garage. That's We're trying to attract younger folks to that market, you guys. And I appreciate that emphasis of lowering costs. Thank you. So, I would still like to see the 20 foot alley. Yeah, I feel bad. I feel the same way. But

well, here's here's here's what we can do if you want to do that, John. If you look at the drawing, there's the code says you can do a 20 foot alley. And again, this is a putt and your alley rule is not a putt. It's it's a written rule for R1A. So, that's why we're here talking about it. But if you want us to connect the dots in those alleys with concrete, if you look on the right side on the first alley, there's already 20 foot plus of concrete. So that's already met the code on the first alley. The second alley, I've got to connect a little bit of concrete going north south. on the curled alley. I've got to add a little bit at the beginning and the end. So, we can meet 20 foot of concrete the whole way. Your code also says the 20ft alley is required, but you can you must leave only 10t open for drive lanes. So, I can't police people from parking in that alley. Can't do it. Your own code your own code allows it. To your point, Mr. Shear, I think last week you said you have never really had an issue, but people park on both sides of the alley. So, if you want us to to to add the 20 foot alleys, we can do that. But we also had a conversation with the chief and he said, "Hey, he would rather have sprinkler buildings than than a 20ft alley." So, we can do one or the other, but we can't do both.

And you're saying you have 20 foot of concrete because of the driveways into those covered parkways. Is that what I'm correct? those those uh mic on the right. Give me that pointer. I I see where you're at. That just one little area up there where there's not. Right. So, we pretty much got the lane there. Ready? If you really this this button right here, this area right, you got to hold it. Okay. Yeah. There we go. All right. This area right here, correct, is is basically that's all solid concrete right now in front of those garages. Y

So we add something there. Pavement right there, right? That'll be a 24 drive. I'm with you. And we'll connect the dots. So that's that's not a big deal for us. How about on the other side though? What What is What is going to be You said that's a solid concrete on the left of that drive. Go back to where you were before. What's on the right hand side? Are those driveways? So basically it's going to be concrete but is there going to be stuff in between each one?

Okay, but there is a separation between them. There's a separation here. There's no drive. I've got a 20 foot drive. I come over here and I put we can come in from either wide lane here or I can just connect the dots right through here and make 20 foot of so it's it's doable either way. You guys you guys are insistent on 20 foot of pavement. You know, I'm just telling you, I've been doing this for 32 years, and you know, me and Charles go round and round about MS4 and run off and all that. So, you know, we're trying to make it as green as we can and still meet their requirements. Is the trade-off to meet 20 and have the city take it over or keep it at 12 and the HOA has to maintain it.

Uh, well, if you guys don't want to maintain it, there's going to be a homeowner association in this development. Uh, you guys don't plow this. You don't plow alleys now. The city The city doesn't plow alleys. Hold on. Yeah, we we we did it. We started to the last. Yeah. Thanks. I know. I'm trying to plow my brother's I I know. I know. It's been a bone of contention, but I think with with several storms we've had the last couple years and with the contract waste hauling that the city has,

we don't want them using that as an excuse not to be able to go ahead and serve trash. So, we have gone in and now started to plow at least some of those and I can't say every alley, but I'm saying some of those alleys in town due to the fact of we want to make sure our residents get protection. Where do you expect trash to be picked up then? on these out of the alley. It'll be in the alley. Yeah. We don't we don't want it out on Fox Crest because that's a major thoroughare. So, we want to keep the trash as much as we can in the rear entry and in the internal piece and then obviously the people on the outside will be right out by the by the street, right?

But again, um the code does allow for you to park in that alley. If you make it a 20ft alley, you can park in it. So, what we thought is we would still make it a 12oot alley. Keep in mind, we also said these are going to be one way alleys. So, we're going to have everybody go in one way and out. I remember that. Yeah. Oh, I remember. Game changer. No, he always said that. I didn't I didn't remember that. Yeah. No, we brought that up last last month. We we wanted to go 12, Mike, but keep them one way. No, he he they mentioned that. I missed that then.

Yeah. So, I mean, you guys I mean you guys talk it over. We can do we can do if you're going to say, "Hey, we got to have 20 foot of pavement." We'll give you 20 foot of pavement. But then I don't think the builders got the money to do sprinklers and 20 foot payments.

I I understand that. And Mike, just so you understand that one way doesn't necessarily that's fine for people driving dayto day, but police, fire, and EMS don't pay attention to way streets. Uh and that and I mentioned it at the last meeting that center area is going to be an address concern so that we know where to go in there because you're not going to be able to and I'm just I'm thinking more of EMS and police. Police are going to want to go to the front door. So they're going to have to know where to go in the middle to get to the front door. EMS is probably going to have to know that way, but then may move because it may be easier, especially those on that left side that have the garages coming in the back. It may be easier to go out the back. So, that that center corridor is is going to be an access issue no matter which way we look at it. Whether it's one-way streets, whether it's 20 foot alleys, 20 foot alleys gives us better room to work and pass because of of the driving that way things go. And you know, if it's a domestic thing, you're going to have two or three, four police cars in that alleyway and that usually involves EMS. So now you've added that to it.

It's pretty close to 20 foot every place at least of concrete to get around. Correct. If they are they would fill in those areas. I'm not opposed to that. Um, and as far as the parking, um, we can put no parking signs up. We can require no parking signs. I don't know why you would park there, though. I don't know where you'd be going though if you parked there. That's the other thing. You know what I mean? They would be going to the back doors if there are back doors. I'm not as concerned about the parking as I am the EMS. No, I'm not either. I'm the the EMS access and police access. is actually more of a concern than than the others.

I just wanted to address the addressing if I could. Um so we're one of the communities that we build in is New Town uh in St. Charles. Um and that entire community is really oriented at alley loaded or rear loaded product. So you've got thousands of of units just like this uh that you know we're building along with Whitaker Homes. Um, so the way that it works is that your alley, uh, has an address just like a street. So from an EMS standpoint, um, and you can look on on our website if you want, uh, we have one called Arpent Alley, for example. So, you know, say, you know, the the units along Fox Drive there, uh, would be 123 Fox Drive, and police and fire or EMS would know where to go to 123 Fox Drive. If the alley was named, you know, uh, Washington Way, whatever it is, it's 123 Washington Way. And they would have that plugged into their system just like it would be a street. So,

very good. That Thank you for explaining that because that helps. Any other questions from commissioners? No, I've been there. I should know that. I would still like to see the 20 foot alley. And I I'm not sure what the definition of an alley is. I don't

I Well, I wasn't I guess I guess I I can I can get into this. Um, so by our subdivision code, an alley is a secondary means of access. So these, you know, these alleys right here that are, you know, these these units and the um, central green, I mean, by our subdivision code, they are not alleys. They're streets because they're the primary way of access. However, you know, this is a planned development, so you kind of throw all that out the window a little bit, you know. So, it's it's not it's not really relevant, but

Thank you. That's I just was wondering what that definition actually was. I would I would reiterate I guess some comments from last time a little bit that um I do live I do have one of the old alleys in town that is the 12T is a narrow alley. I don't even know if it's 12 to be honest with you. U ours is a dead end alley. It's not a through alley. We have never really had issues with trash delivery. Um, I've not had issues the last few years the city has been doing a wonderful job of of taking care of the snow. We've not had issues with with the snow plowing. Um, the only time it has ever been an issue that I can remember u was when we had an emergency on the street where um several police vehicles arrived before the ambulance got there. So they had to do a little car shuffling to get the ambulance to where the ambulance needed to go. That is the the one occasion. But as far as parking, people park on the alley. Our driveways, my garage is rear entry garage, no different than some of these directly off the alley. Uh I park behind my garage all the time. U my neighbors do the same. It's never stopped trash or services or anything like that. So, Chief Frankenberg did call me earlier and said that he had had discussions with the developer about sprinklering the buildings uh and he's fine with that doing it under the plumbing code and that would also require some additional fire stopping in the units. Um, so he's willing to do that and since this is a

PDR, we can we can make that a requirement also. Uh, and he was agreeable to that if they want to stay at the 12T, but that would be a requirement then that he would want to see.

Did he mention whether he preferred one or the other? Not really. Okay. He didn't really have strong feelings one way or the other. It was just his perspective from the fire aspect. Right. Which I totally understand and I would agree with that. Okay. And because I brought it up at the last meeting. Sure. About sprinkler. Sure. And again, that would probably I'm not going to speak for Tim, but I'm sure he's just referring to those inside units and not the ones that face the regular 28 and 35t streets because we have direct access. That's not a problem.

Is that correct in your discussions? Okay. You're just going to sprinkler the ones off the 12T off the alley. You guys were trying to save costs. I you know, and so am I.

I mean, we could require a lot, but would we get a good bill builder to do it? I don't know. I'm I'm toward leaning to letting them do the 12 foot street with concrete because you can drive on it and and whether or not it's named a road, you know, I don't to me that's sematics. And if those houses down where they need to be sprinkled or sprinkled, to me that's just as important, maybe more so. I'm not a fire guy, though.

And and I would I would agree with that. If if you're willing to sprinkle those houses on that inside corridors, nucleuses there um and stay with 12 foot um to meet the building code requirements for the plumbing code for sprinklers. I think that's a good negotiated tradeoff. Well, and I and I feel I re we rely heavily on you and if you see that as a reasonable I can go along with that too because Yeah. He's our fire guy. We've done that in some other developments. If you're familiar with what's going on in the east end has one way in, one way out. Yeah. And that whole complex is the one way is key. Sprinkle good

as Mike mentioned. And I think making the concessions is worth it. Like I said, with a tiered type of units will have in the development along with I mean the idea of that center part I think is very critical for community building something that is really important for especially new families. It can be hard to meet people. So I think just from a social dynamic this is an interesting model a unique model for Washington as they talked about. I think it worked really well. Address the addressing aspect of it. So that was exactly my my concern with that too. So what you're saying is you're going to accept the 12 foot alley. Tim Tim would accept a 12oot alley if those center ones were

center ones were sprinkler and going from there. Sounds good to me. And John, correct me if I'm wrong, but I I think that the issue was really in the center of the plan there, those units that face the park because there's not a street in front of it. Correct. That was the, you know, the the whole idea of a sprinkler system is to give uh occupants more time to get out in the case of a fire. Correct. So that's exactly right.

So the fact that you know all the other units have a street in front of them, right? So you can have a truck or any kind of EMS vehicle right in front of the unit. Those those uh units there there's nine on each side, right? So there's the 18 of them that that you know face that uh that central open space. The that I think was the concern. Now, you could argue the the four on the ends that face the street do have street frontage, but you know, we would sprinkler those, I think, anyway. Um, just because you're going to do the whole building. Um, so

yeah, that was that was the way I understood our conversation and if that's what he had negotiated with you, I'm fine with that.

Yeah, the the other thing that we have offered in some communities is u you know optional uh sprinkling for uh homeowners. So it becomes an option just like a a luxury kitchen or you know nicer finishes in your home. Uh for some people it helps them sleep better at night especially if it's you know uh somebody who has mobility issues uh that kind of thing. Um so again you know our goal is to uh keep our our base pricing you know as low as as we can. Uh if there are buyers who are interested in that we can put a sprinkler system in any unit. So I would definitely encourage that if if if you can because

um for that very reason. Uh you know it saves time, saves lives. Well, having just built a a place, it was the the contractor offered that option to us early on before anything had been done that you had that option. So I think that's kind of become standard. It is

that that's available. the codes have changed and now can be done under the plumbing code instead of the national fire protection code for residential sprinklers. So there's some installation changes that have been traded off there. So you don't have to go look you don't think of a sprinkler system like you see in this building. Yeah. No, this isn't sprinkled. That's right. Anyway, um but anyway, yeah, it's been it's been brought into the codes because of that reason. It's less expensive to have years. Wow. Any other comments? Uh oh, here comes Charles. Hello.

Um, we had talked about with you all um if we kept them 12 foot wide and publicly maintained that possibly the HOA would take over snow plowing. Had that been discussed any further? I'm concerned that the city snowplowing a 12-oot alley and it being the primary u access for a lot of these homes that it just won't get done within a timely manner for a lot of these residents to get out of there. So because you would have to take a smaller vehicle in there, correct?

And alleys aren't the main focus, right? No, you're doing the major at all the main roads. It might be a couple days before these alleys are even touched and if it's their, you know, it's supposed to be their secondary, if it's their primary um access, they might be stuck in there for a little bit. So, that's a good option. I I do say that the um trash will be harder. I think it is possible. Obviously, we we do it on 12oot alleys now. Um but it it does make it more difficult, but the snow plowing is probably the big one.

And that was my concern, too, with with the 12 foot originally, too. So, back to the uh developer again, if you may. I've got a question about snow removal. Then you'll you would had the HOA would take care of sidewalks and and all of that, correct? And your green space in the center and all of it. HOAs are such fun.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, the this community would have a a homeowners association uh and and it would have uh some common areas uh that are out outside of the lots, not just the area in the center there. Aaron, I guess I'll fancy pointer. Uh so there's there's the area in the center that would be common. Uh you know, this area over here which is guest parking which would be common. And there's a few other, you know, bits and pieces at the end here. Uh, and then this this piece right here, uh, in the corner, uh, what we would like to do is to, uh, drill a well there and actually have that serve as our irrigation, uh, you know, for the, uh, for the the development. Uh and that you know that makes that in our experience is better because the whole community looks better and it's lower maintenance um rather than relying on you know all these different homeowners to you know water and mow their own grass that kind of thing. So we roll that into uh the uh you know when they sign a contract. Uh so that those fees would be would be part of that. So, um, you know, we can we can, you know, include snow plowing. It's it's it's kind of a pay me now or pay me later kind of thing, right, for res for, you know, residents, right? You're either, you know, paying through your taxes and getting your your, you know, snowplowed that way or you're paying through your HOA. So, if the city doesn't take it, it just means the HOA fees are higher, right, to take care of that. So,

just FYI, I don't think private wells are allowed in the city. They're not allowed. Okay. Yeah. I' I'd love to hear more about that because our drilling company, we we did ask about that. Uh Flynn Drilling is our is the company we use and they they said they've drilled several wells in town. City. City wells. Yeah, I know they've done those, but we do not allow private wells in the city if there's city water that's available even for irrigation. Even for irrigation. Correct. And why is that? Just out of curiosity. Protect the aquifer, I presume. But

do do you want to come up and speak to that, Charles? Yeah, I asked Kevin Quaitham about this and he said, "Yeah, within city limits and it's in our DNR permit for having our wells that it's in our zone of influence that we can't have any new wells. We do have some existing wells that we allow to stay in place, but we don't allow any new private wells to be drilled. So, so we really don't control that. DNR DNR is right. I mean, we have to regulate that and obviously don't let any new ones come in. Okay, that's good.

Any other questions? Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to speak to this? Please come up to the mic and state your name and your address, please. Dave, uh, I live right there on the corridor lot, uh, 2218 Win Court. Um, I just had a few questions. Uh, are these all going to be on the slabs? There's no Is there sir? You're going to have to speak to the microphone and have them come up and answer your questions. Okay. So, what was your question then? Are they all going to be on slabs or is there going to be below ground? Okay. And he said below ground.

Yeah, I believe I live all over the world. I lived to Washington DC for 10 years and it's town home city there and a lot of splats I didn't know but u and this is really not a planning question but I don't know how I'll have access to the developer. Do you know the time frames on this? Yes, we can get those for you. Okay, we'll ask him that like when you when you would start building and when you would I think I think they've provided that. That's in our plan. is not in but they didn't provide the video. No, but I I think they gave us I think they did give us a very preliminary time frame. I thought I read it somewhere.

No, it's it's in the April 2026 is when site clearing. Uh December 2026, first home's ready for move in. Yeah. Yeah. And when do you think it'll be completely? He's doing it in two phases. It's It's hard to depends on how they sail. Yeah, that's usually where it goes. Um, so so which is the first phase? Is it the to the west or I mean to the east? East side. Okay.

Um, just from a personal standpoint, I would prefer a fence. I would prefer something that does allow access to my yard so I don't have some kid walking in my patio door or something, you know? I'm either tripping in my yard and then suing me because I didn't get rid of the damn ground hooks, you know. Okay. So, you would prefer a fence? Yeah, but No, that's not a big deal. Yeah. Which which where did you say your house was? Sure. Um, do you know what lot number you are? I think it's like 198 or something. It's It's the Yeah, the one

This one right here. The other one. This this one. Yeah. Okay. So, you're on the culde-sac of West Wind, right? Okay. So, this is your house right here. Yes. Gotcha. Okay. Um, you know, I mean, nobody's coming through that tree line. I mean, right here. This This one right here. Bushes. They had one inch thorns. But, uh, I mean, that's just grass over there. You could walk. I mean, kids aren't going to pay any attention to bushes or anything. They'll just You know, they'll go where kids go, right? Well, I was looking at the elevation there and just for your sake, uh, that would be really steep. Not really. Um,

well, by the time they're done excavating. Yeah. Yeah. They're they're the way it looks here at least, there's probably six foot of drop. That's such fine print. I can't read it. I mean, it would just be a hill post, right? I mean, it really drops off pretty flat. Yeah, but they're they're going to excavate out some of the dirt there and stuff behind there. So, it's going to be a little bit steeper.

I mean, I'm trying to decide if I put my house on the market in a month or in six months. So, so I'm trying to get an idea. I mean, I when I moved here, you know, I moved Well, I was kind of forced here. I mean, I had to make a decision because it was co, you know, I was in my dad's house and he passed away and I was trying to sell that. I just need a place to live and co was a mess. And I kind of liked the community. I really did. But, uh, you know, 55 plus community is more right for me. I mean, I get it. You guys, you know, you're doing what you need to do for the city. So, you would prefer to have a fence along the backside of your property.

Yeah. and it just but but don't don't I mean by the time you build that fence I probably won't even be there. Okay.

Um you know um it just uh and it's not against these guys. I mean they're trying to make money right for business then right I mean you know this is what the third change in about three years on the zoning in this at least the third maybe the fourth. Um but I didn't expect it. I mean the house behind me is a lot closer. Um, you know, every time they bring out the track steer, I think about putting my and dig up the same piece of ground for the 18th time back and forth. Back and forth, you know. I'm thinking about putting my house on the market like tomorrow. But that'll pass. That'll pass. Those guys are fast back there and stuff. So, I mean,

okay. But, you know, I mean, that's just, you know, and as far as sidewalks, I mean, people walk on the streets all the time. Um, you know, that I I I watch it. I walk on the streets every day. I walk over to the park and the sidewalk you put in there. It's great. That is great. If you had money for more sidewalks, make one over to the Aldi or the Target and then maybe people wouldn't have to drive a quarter mile to go get a gallon of milk. Well, we're trying to make it more walkable. That takes time.

That would be really great. And um and the only other thing you might consider is those bushes at the Target when you come into the shopping center there and you got the three-way stop where the people coming in don't. I bet you four times out of 10 because those bushes are targeted, they can't see the people coming in. They make the look and then they look to the right and then they just go and by the time they see the car and they just come out right in front of them. Now you're not going that fast. So there's plenty of time to stop. But if they could cut those bushes back, I think it would because now you're going to have fire trucks going out there, right? I mean, I guess that's the way they're going to go out. So that that whole that whole intersection there, you know, when it backs up through the three-way stop from the light and stuff, it gets really,

you know, congested. So it's something to consider. Okay. Maybe maybe change the light frequency so it doesn't it'll suck for that we can't do. That's a mod. Yeah. But that's a different committee. Yeah, that's a different committee. now, you know, because once it gets to that three-way, then people don't know what to do because they're backed up through the light and then people start coming in and they don't have to stop. So, anyway, I'll let you guys. Okay. Anything else, sir, that pertains to this topic? No. Okay. So, thank you. So, can I get an answer to his question that they are all basement? Is that correct? And that's not a big deal.

That's correct. Uh, we're not proposing any slabs for these homes. They would all have basements. Okay. Thank you very much. Aaron, back to even the fence. His lot doesn't even go up to any of where the area is. No, no, that's that's correct. I mean, like the lot next to it, the lot next to it is Yeah, that's that's going to be single family uh from Stonebridge. So, there's going to be maybe one or I I don't remember the exact bl It doesn't. But that that's not relative even to the fence that they're going to be putting up. Correct.

That is Yeah, that's correct. On their plans, they only have a fence uh right here north of north of where that that corner would be. So, correct. Okay. Okay. Um so, I guess we're to the point if the commissioners don't have any other um discussions. Is there anybody else in the audience that would like to speak to this? Then I would like to go through each one of the staff recommendations and make sure that we're all on the same page with this. Yeah. Um item number one, reoriented the g guest parking near the common area to the south side of the main road. I think we want to keep it where it's at. Is that what the I would agree. Yes. Okay.

Yes. Erin, is that okay with staff? You're the You're the commission. So, I understand as long as we're not missing something. Yeah. No, that's that's fine. Yeah. Uh number two, that we would approve the 12 foot alleys provided they fully sprinkled the infilled areas uh in between those. And I can't tell how many units there are. There 18. 18. Nine on each side. That's the wrong one. That that would be correct. Correct. Okay. Yeah. 18. Um, number three, sidewalk required on the south side of the main road. No. No. And okay with where it's at? Yeah.

As long as they have the handicap ramps coming off and going that route. Uh, continue the privacy fence to lot 14 and north to lot one or a buffer. And I'm fine with the buffer if could be landscaping. Doesn't have to be the fence. as long as it says I'm fine with you and that'll that'll need to be done before the uh final plat or excuse me final development plan approval. So council will council will see that and make sure that that's all good. So and obviously a maximum building height of 40 ft that's correct pretty much a given.

Yeah. And then the only other recommendation you know that you need to do is since this this plan in front of you was I kind of mentioned this at the very beginning but since this plan was not the plan they submitted just you know make a recommendation to adhere the um you know final development plan to fit the what what you see on screen before you today. Right. And add the HOA requirement for snow plowing. Correct. Yes. Absolutely. Right. Because we talked about that's the only other part. Exactly. Okay. So we actually have seven items then that that need to address to that. Agreed. Yes, Kirk. We got it.

Kind of can address this. I was unaware of that. Do we want to add an eighth item and have a name requirement for those alleys? because I just want to know that going forward if we come up with another spot like this in town that we kind of have some sort of addressing and because those of you been around we've had issues with addressing and names and roads and stuff like that. So I think that would be helpful if they could do it that way just put it as a condition. I thought it would be a requirement but if it's a condition yeah we would require we would require that I just want to make sure we're all on the same page as far as the naming of the alley. Doesn't hurt for the addressing, right? Right. So, everybody's good with that.

Right. Cool. Suspenders is always good. Okay. Double duty. Everybody understand the the recommendations? Then I would entertain a motion. So move. Second. Motion made and seconded that we approve the uh PDR 834 Parkway estates to 83 uh with the um changes and recommendations uh discussed. All those in favor? I I opposed. Eyes have it. Thank you. Looking forward to seeing it progress. I'll be working out of that station out there. So nice. I'll be driving by there a lot.

I bet. Okay. Next item on the agenda is uh file number 26-305, special use permit at 902 West 7th.

Yes. So, uh, before you tonight, you have a special use permit for a, uh, secondary school located at 902 West 7th Street. Um, the applicants wish to operate a private school, um, out of their home. Um they have indicated that they wish to have 3 to eight students on the premises between 8:30 a.m. and 3:30 p.m. Um since this is the applicant's uh primary home, uh a lot of the uh home occupation our home occupation rules um do apply to this. Um, and looking into that, um, there there are several conditions that staff, uh, recommend, um, because, you know, this is a home occupation, so a little bit different than what the applicant would want, but just to make sure everything is compliant. Um, so permitted home occupations, uh, home occupations are permitted as an accessory use to a residential use in any R residential district. Um, the following are typical examples of uses, um, that can be conducted. Um but you know the list below doesn't necessarily qualify a home occupation as uh as as a listed use. Um so schools more broadly are not classified as a home occupation but music and dance teachers are and they have a limitation here. Um and that says provided that instruction instructions shall be limited to one pupil at a time except for occasional groups. And this occasional groups provision um this is under prohibited home occupations. any home occupation that involves periodic group meetings slash slash sess sessions more than four times during any consecutive 12-month period. So that being said, what the applicant is requesting to do, which is a, you know, 5 day a week uh private school based out of their home uh would not be compliant with our current home occupation uh uh recommendations.

So this is this is the home. Um and staff have recommended that uh the the uh the um the the school be limited to one pupil at at a time in compliance with their home occupation uh requirements. And uh telling that to the applicant, they um that that just simply won't work for them. Um, so that being said, they've requested to, um, table the item, uh, provided that, um, uh, well, I guess let me let me back up a little bit here. Um so in looking at what we allow as a home occupation um you know it it's it's come to my attention that uh there might be certain types of home occupations that we are precluding um because of this u you know rule that says any home occupation that involves periodic groups meeting slash sessions um those specifically being um homeschool schools and uh uh like homeschool co-ops, um tutoring, tutoring sessions, um things of that nature. And uh that being said, the applicants um wish to uh table this application until the next uh planning and zoning meeting, provided that uh the commission um directs me to take a look at some of these rules um to maybe allow for um you know, homeschool co-ops and tutors and private schools um for you know, a certain number of of uh occupants. Um, so I'll let the uh applicants come up. If you want to uh talk about, you know, your your vision and

a lot of people that come and do it, please state your name and address, please. Uh, I'm Jeff and this is Lily Melton. We live at Sorry, we live at 9027 Street. Okay. I figured this way.

Makes sense. Yeah. Um so as we've submitted in the or sorry my voice is not quite here so I will do my best if you let us um we were we are interested in starting a small private school um based out of our home um and um we are currently employed doing something similar not in Franklin County somewhere else so we've seen it happen. There's been a lot of interesting changes in education currently with technology and postcoid times. Um and uh we currently have uh four families interested and five students interested. Um all of these families are in the Washington area and they're also entrepreneurs. Um so we have some interest in the area to do this. that makes most sense to us um to start um potentially in our home. And as I was thinking, um, the idea of having a few people drop off their kids during school hours, um, to use our facility to, um, to read and to think, potentially to garden, to cook, and do these things during the school hours doesn't seem to me so different than a lot of people in our neighborhood who might have a few children dropped off during the school hours that they're doing a daycare for. So, I'm just thinking about the difference as far as the effect on our neighbors in the community. People um often run small businesses out of their home. Um not usually they wouldn't be called schools. They would just be doing daycare. So, it it seemed to me um very parallel or analogous to that. Um but in our discussion with Aaron, of course, he's like, "Ah, but there's a rule here." So, that is what what we're

here for. So, if you have any other questions or anything that we could help you with, any questions or comments? I mean, there's really not um so I know other families that do homeschool their own children. I'm just curious like are there like certain Desi standards if you're doing this in Missouri like the entrepreneurship that you're doing? So I guess are there any standards, educational standards that you are aligned to or is it just the standards for Missouri are very lack for private schools? For private schools. Yeah, for private schools. So you have to keep vaccination records.

Um you uh sometimes you have to register as a school depending on what source you look at. Um, and you have to administer a Missouri constitution, uh, US Constitution test, and those are those are your standards for schools for Missouri.

Well, I know there's a lot of charter schools, and I know someone who worked at a charter school. They had you didn't have to have um any requirements on the teachers. You didn't have to have a curriculum. I mean it was kind of sad that to me it sounded like it of course being a librarian you needed more structure but at the same time I think we are maybe we need to change how we define this because I have a feeling this is not going to be the first first person. Um, I worked the library was my thing here and I know there are groups who go and meet regularly at the public library and uh and they and they're signed up for the meeting room and they have a space. Now, that's not the same as in your home with the gardening and the cooking, which is cool, but um it's something we may need to look at because um if this becomes very popular and you're setting a standard here, you know, that there are going to be more that will follow, I think we need to have some structure ready to to help you do the best you can.

Yeah, I I would agree. I I you know I did honestly a lot of research um about this specific um uh uh file and um there is nothing like this in in Washington, believe you me. So, um, you know, I I I that's that's why I believe and I I advised the applicants to, you know, request us taking a look at, um, you know, how we regulate, uh, you know, schools, uh, whether that be a home school or, you know, a tutoring session in in our as a home occupancy. Um, so yeah, because this is a real step up from homeschooling to me, right? There's a difference because they're not your kids. I'm assuming they're not your that that's the difference with with basically homeschooling and

that and the number. So, you know, I spent 23 years doing education policy for the state of Missouri. So, I have a broad base of of of knowing things here from a from a from this file standpoint. I don't know where we draw the line. Do you allow two students in? Do you allow five students in? Does it based upon the square footage of your house? When do we get to safety standards of of of, you know, I mean, we have safety standards for short-term rentals. You know, you got to have entrances, you know, ways to get in and out if there's an emergency. So, those are the questions that came to my mind as is where's the line drawn because right now the line's drawn at one, I believe. Correct.

Correct. And that's and that's and that's why we want to I mean, personally, staff

line I don't know where the line is. If you want to come in and have five people in your house, maybe that works for you. I don't know what the square footage of your house is. Are they going to be sitting on top of each other? But at the other point of view is I have to look at is if it's not a quality standard for those parents, they're probably not going to put their children in that situation or they'll withdraw their children from that situation. So, I mean, I get both sides of the coin um on it. But I get real leery when we start talking about businesses and residential areas as well. And and I know small businesses. I worked out of my home. I was a lobbyist for 23 years. And a lot of that I worked out in my home. Nobody ever came to my house to meet to me to talk about lobbying. I can tell you that. Okay. Um, so I don't know where we go with it. I I appreciate what you're trying to do and understand what you're trying to do. I just don't know right now the line's one. I don't know where the line is.

Yeah. And that's Does that make sense to you? I mean, perfect sense. That's unusual for me to make sense. Well, and we certainly don't want to make this hard on you, but what you've got to realize that since you are breaking new ground, it's important for us to know how to structure this so that you will be successful and anyone else that comes to us, we won't we'll have a have a plan. Well, at the same time, protect protect the students, the families, and stuff like that.

Well, and and you know, you were we're just talking fire and stuff. Um I've just been through an occupancy permit. Um, and it's common. I don't know whether we would do that for a business in a home, but but there again, depends. You want to make it safe, you know? I mean, there's a lot of questions. She could babysit for four kids right now and not have to get any permit or anything. Correct. Correct. And I I cl actually clarified that with with Mark that the the our daycarees are not um they're not required to meet this, you know, group meeting uh requirement that we have. Um because I I don't know, Mark, do you want to elaborate on that a little bit?

No. All right. Well, there you have it. I I think you're okay with us tableabling this so we can educate ourselves and and Aaron can do some more research and bring it back to us. If if you're okay with it, I would rather see. And as I said, we're not trying to make this hard on you, but this is a whole new ball of wax here. An adventure that you brought to us. Did I hear this right? You've done this in another in a different place or you're we we currently are teachers. Yes. So we we currently teacher teach at an adolescent program or a 12 to 18 program. Um a private school. We work at a very tiny private school. Not in Franklin County. Yeah. Okay. But not in a home either. That's incorrect. It is. You are working out of a home now?

Yes. Okay. Interesting. I I would just be interested if you would in in talking this over if you have some ideas on what some quality standards should be for the house. I mean, is there any regulation that we could look at because we just really, like I said, we just don't know. We don't know right now. Sure. A lot of it

minimum space requirements for daycarees, right? Um I don't think there's minimum space requirements for uh already built schools. There are minimum space requirements for future educational facilities, right? Things that they build now. So I think it's maybe 50 square foot 50 square foot of of every person that would be occupying that. I think, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt. I I think one thing that with that, and this is always, I think, a struggle with with planning and zoning a little bit, is it it kind of bleeds into other areas. And right now, I think we're bleeding a little bit into the the building departments, you know, into the building department's requirements and what uh their design team is going to need to kind of take into consideration. And I think uh since I see Blake sitting back there, I I think that it's kind of some of it's going to be a discussion a little bit that the building department's going to have to kind of weigh in on a little bit from from the standpoint of what that requirement is inside the building and all that stuff. As I look at what you sent, if I understood it correctly, we're talking about uh primarily older children, correct? At the age group, right? We're talking really like middle school, high school age,

secondary education, middle school, high school, but also alternative education. So, we're not talking about having tables and desks and people tied to computers. Very alternative. So the space I think should be considered in that way not in a very conventional space thing. So I think it's a it's flipping what we think of as education kind of like when you look at at the Montasuri idea of ele of preschool that is very unstructured and which works

I think to kind of finish the thought a little bit if we're going to you know if we're looking at tableabling the project or you know the idea for tonight to to come back and have a discussion I think one of the things from a zoning standpoint that I would be interested in, Erin, is how are we how are we going to deal with parking? U because we're talking potentially about people of the age to drive potentially. Yes. And we're in a residential neighborhood and the last time I drove through that part of town, there's no off street parking. Right.

Exactly. So, I I think that's a discussion that that while we're working on that, I I would like to hear what staff's recommendation would be as far as how we address address parking. Yeah. I would like to table this and see if you can find anywhere else United States that this is being done and come back with some uh ideas. Yeah, that's that that would be great because frankly it took me this long to figure out what to do, right? To tell you guys. So, another month would be great. So,

well, at the same time, if he would I would think if we could ask Aaron to see if this particular ordinance needs to be adjusted to deal with not just this situation, but um something else that might come up. Oh, sure. Yeah. you know, I I thought I mean, you know, just kind of off-hand tutoring facilities, you know, other types of homeschool co-ops, you know, there's there's a number of other things that, you know, that's just related to school. So, there might be some other things regarding home occupations that we might want to take a look at at this time that are, you know, this is triggered. So, I I agree completely. So, we have a motion. Do I hear a second?

Second. Motion may be seconded that we table for uh till next month and give uh staff and Aaron an opportunity to do some more research and educate us next month. So, thank you for coming up and explaining that. Agreed.

Next item on the agenda, file number 26306, preliminary platin Meadows Plat 11. Yes. Hello. Um this is a two lot um subdivision at the uh on the uh let's see west end of uh Dawn Avenue here. Um and uh KJ Understall Drive um the applicant is uh creating uh two lots here. Um the only comment that we had uh from staff is that before the subdivision uh is granted final plat approval, the applicant must escrow or submit plans to extend sanitary sewer to lotb. Um and I guess applicant is here if you want to you want to talk more about it. Uh again for the record current stall uh yes we have a u a retail uh purchaser of lot 2B u it's a national uh muffler company that wants to locate here in Washington and uh we you know we're just trying to give him what he needs but still keep that corner lot for you know hopefully Get it.

Land something. Get it. Well said. I got the whole list here. I got phone callers. Wendy, not we got a Wendy's now, but Culver, you know, you name it. Olive Garden. I know the mayor personally wants a Costco. I told him said, "You give me 250,000 people, we'll get a Costco. We can't get a Costco. We ain't there yet." But, uh, so anyway,

that's what we're doing. And, uh, I'm in agreement with staff. We'll get water and sewer brought over. There's actually a manhole at the corner of lot 2A and we'll extend that over to lot 2B. There's actually a fire hydrant and water there to that lot already right on the corner. Transformer electrics there. Natural gas is there. So cool. Just basically dividing that off uh for that individual. Very good. Any other questions or comments from commissioners? Anyone in the audience wish to speak to this? Not I would. Motion to approve. I'll second.

Motion made and seconded that we approve the preliminary plat for Highland Meadows Plat 11. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Eyes have it. Number six, code change lot coverage code change recommendations. Yes. Um, for those of you who weren't uh here last were any of you not here last time? I was here.

Okay, we'll we'll Oh, you read it. Okay, gotcha. I'll just I'll step I'll skip to the good stuff. So, um Okay, let's see. So, yeah, just just a few more things about lot coverage and then I'll pull up the uh the specific amendments and uh we can have a have a further discussion. So, um I I did not mention this at our last meeting, but um the uh there are some additional accessory structure regulations that uh protect, you know, accessory structures in residential areas for being from being uh overly large. Um those being um the square footage of all number five here, the square footage of all accessory buildings combined must be less than the primary structure. And then number seven here, no more than two accessory structures shall be allowed on a lot. And uh if you uh count up all of the uh residential districts in Washington, that's about 44% of Washington's land area. So you've got 44% of Washington that is regulated by these standards. So, um, you're not going to have, you know, crazy lot coverage over, you know, all of Washington just kind of by by by default. Um, and then this this example came up recently. This we this was brought to my attention uh or staff's attention at uh Tuesday's site plan. Uh, here you're looking at uh 2794 Earthrest. Um, it's the the home with the the red square on it. Um, their zoning is R1A and the R1A district has a maximum lot coverage of 25 uh%. The lot size is about,00 uh 200 square ft and the size of the home is around 4,000 ft². So that means that they have a current lot coverage of 37% which is way out of line for what you know our our maximum lot coverage

is. and uh the the homeowner came to uh staff and requested to uh put up a covered deck here. So, they have a currently existing deck um that was uncovered and they requested to cover it. And because covered decks uh count towards your lot coverage standard, we had to deny them even though it was already an existing uh deck. So, this is a a real world example about uh you know why why lot coverage is not necessarily the greatest. So, just thought I'd bring that up to uh to the commission. Um, and I'll pull up the specific code changes here. Um, okay. Essentially though, I've just I've just crossed out where it says lot coverage. So, you know, in in R1A, R1B, R1C, R1D, and R3.

You're keeping the the accessory structures. Correct. All setbacks, lots, all those are correct place. just not regulating how much you can put within that setbacks and everything else. Correct. Yeah, absolutely. Felt like I mean with our discussion last time it just given just what anyone would want to do with their own lot odds are it's going to look fine. It's not going to be a huge issue regulate. Sure. Well, and part of the problem too is this hasn't been enforced. That's the issue. If we would have to enforce this across like half of the city

review of the codes, we found this Yeah. So, ensuring that the city actually can enforce that. It just practical. Any other comments or questions for Aaron from the commission? So, what do you need from that, Aaron? Uh, just a recommendation to approve uh the uh or Yeah, a recommendation to approve the the code changes. And these will go to council on April whatever that first council meeting is. So, and so they'll make the final change. We just need to re correct. Yeah. Correct. Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak to this?

I got to I got to mention something. My son Nick's buddy lives in Portland, Oregon, and he has a tiny house. They put it in his driveway. His wife teaches piano art in there. It's a great thing. I don't think we have any tiny houses in Washington. Are they regulated? Can people stay in them because their buddies sleep in them when they when they host overnight? So, you're talking about like a a a home that is on another home's lot. Correct.

Yeah. Yeah. We we do not have those. I mean, frankly, I would uh that's you know, that makes my planner brain go, "Yay, yay. Let's do this." I know. But um you know if if the commission would would uh like me to look into uh allowing excessive I'm not advocating. Okay. All right. Just mentioning he's like saying we don't want that. It's it's going to happen sometime and we're going to have to you know figure out Well, I I know there was someone that had her mother-in-law living in a trailer behind her house. Sure. And I think they went and said you can't do that. Sure. I think I think Yeah. that this is I mean it's not related to residences it's a different code right?

Yeah. Yeah. It's not not related to lot coverage but but just speaking about the issue I think if we were to you know regulate accessory dwelling units or mother-in-law flats as they're sometimes known you know we would require them to be on a foundation and right on the with out of the setbacks and all all that jazz. Certainly going to be keeping him busy but you know we we can we can look at that at a at a later date for sure if at a later date. Absolutely. at a later date. Yes. Yep. Okay. No tiny homes right now. That's right. That's right. I would entertain a motion for the uh recommendation on the lot coverage. Motion to approve the code change. Motion to recommend recommend the code change.

And motion made and seconded to recommend to council that we u delete and change the lot coverage code requirements in the residential zoning code. All those in favor signify by saying I I opposed. I just have it. All right. That'll be a And lastly, Franklin County Subdivision.

Yes. So, um, just for for your sake, you know, whenever I get an email, uh, from Franklin County, I'm going to, you know, come before this commission and tell tell you what I heard. So, this is the Hill at Magnolia Lakes. Um, this is right by Ming Estates off Old Highway 100 and Northern Star. They're going to be building another culde-sac um not dissimilar to the one that is right next to uh they're the existing culde-sac. So, uh let's see. You got 10 10 lots there all over three acres. Um all on septic and that jazz. So, um they would have their own septic systems. Correct. Correct.

Correct. Yeah. Yeah. I went I went to the meeting um wasn't wasn't much discussion. So, yeah. So, just thought I'd share that with the with the commission. So, okay. Anything else, Aaron? I don't think so. No. Oh, thank you. If not, anything else from the commissions, commissioners, then I would entertain one last motion. I'll move we motion seconded that we adjourn at 8:30. All those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. Eyes have it. Thank you. That was way down there. A few words.

The only one. I love that. We can count on you. Sports. Yeah.

Oh god. Yeah. You're rocking.