Development and Zoning Review Committee - Regular Meeting

process. The committee welcomes the public's attendance tonight via the Zoom webinar platform or streaming on YouTube, but given the preliminary and informal nature of this presentation, public comment is not being sought at this time. If this proposal makes does proceed to the formal submission process, members of the public will have numerous opportunities to address the city's planning and zoning commission andor city council regarding it. At that time, the committee would like to thank you for your attendance at tonight's meeting. Um, can I get a roll call of commission members, please? Council member Galani here. Council member Alers here. Council member Marshall,

present. Mayor Gitano here. And Chair Batty here. Thank you. Thank you. Um, does the Department of Planning have any opening comments?

Yes, Mr. Chair. First and foremost, thanks to all of you for attending today. We do appreciate it. Obviously, these are um meetings on an asne basis. So, we know that sometimes we're asking you to kind of do things and squeeze them in. So, thank you very much. As part of the packet of information that's been prepared tonight, the department included in that packet the following items. We have the agenda obviously and then the bylaws associated with this particular committee. So if there are any questions regarding process, we have those handy. Along with that, the department included the new workplace state route 100 109 subdist map that showed the 10 properties that were recently um the the land use category was modified to accommodate quicks serve restaurants and similar types of uses as a potential use which was not the case for many many years of the town center plan. We also included the ordinance that was approved by city council that memorialized that particular action. And in that packet too is the letter of recommendation from the planning and zoning commission if you wanted to kind of see how it progressed from the public hearing to that recommendation. There are two aerials that Mr. Newberry provided to kind of reference the property relative to the general area and then the more specific detailed um location. And then finally, there is an aerial with plan details from the two entities that'll be presenting tonight. And the final item in the packet is the site development plan that was approved for Main Street Crossing. And then from that perspective, you can see the lots as they were when the platting occurred

back in um the latter part of 2018 or 2019 as I recall. So if there's any questions on any of those items, Mr. Newberry and I'd be glad to answer them. And we do appreciate Mr. Brown being here as our traffic expert. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Mr. Vunich. Um would the petitioner like to present their proposal? Yes. Uh is Mike uh Pettit also on the call? He he is online. He is muted.

Okay, that's fine. [sighs] Welcome everybody. I appreciate the uh the opportunity here to want to introduce myself. First and foremost, my name is Craig Kaiser. I'm with Ridge Property Properties. I've been a commercial real estate developer for the past 23 years developing uh retail from large box to junior box to uh groundup development on a single tenant uh basis. Um I'm a resident of the city of Wildwood. I moved here about 3 years ago. I reside in Homestead Estates. I got to tell you, my family and I love it here. Uh great community. And obviously a part of what I do for a living is is is work with with with city city leadership. And uh I look forward to working with with all of you on on this initiative. Uh but we put this under this particular piece of land under contract uh almost about a month ago. Um met with with Joe uh initially. Mike and I met with Joe initially just to uh kind of just briefly introduce kind of the the vision we have behind um this development and and and really truly trying to obviously being a part of this community the past the past three years um just understanding you kind of it's an underserved area with the especially with some convenience aspects of uh for the residents within this community. So, we're looking to bring um uh some QSR right now at this this particular site plan. Um has a obviously a QSR on the the northern lot and a a car wash on the the southern lot. We are in discussions um and obviously there's there's there's interest on uh both of these users at the moment. at at the same time, we're also going to begin marketing um our development efforts and

and obviously in particularly the opportunity um here in in Wildwood. So Mike uh Pettit uh is also a resident of the city of Wildwood. Uh he's uh is my listing agent for the property. Um Mike does a lot of very similar things that I do. I'm just a developer and he's he's he's a broker. He he has great relationships with uh a lot of retail and and QSR end users. Um we've been doing this for quite some time and and Mike's also I don't know if I mentioned this but he's he's a neighbor of mine. He lives and resides in in Homestead Estates as well. So we're excited to first and foremost you know we travel a lot. We do a lot of business outside of uh the state of Missouri in particular. um uh we're so excit excited potentially about doing something here kind of in our in our backyard if you will. So um you know with that being said as I go into new endeavors you know I and obviously this is the first time I've done something with or try to do something here in the city of Wildwood. I always like to try to because timing and you know obviously timing and cost and the development upfront uh uh is always a um I would say a challenge right to one understand the city process understand obviously you know we're going to be gu be able to garner support or not um and then um really trying to because I'm all because I have uh obviously a certain amount of time uh to conduct my due diligence within the the purchase and sale agreement. Um, so and that's that's kind of initially why we met with Joe, just so I can get a good understanding of of of the city process. Obviously, this is what is uh the beginning of the

process. Um, you know, I would tell you that we've, you know, we've we've done a lot of development. I take pride in what obviously what I do, what I invest in. Um, and frankly greater pride in economic development. Uh it's one of one of the I guess the the meaning behind the purpose of of my career uh is not just I love to build things but I love to build relationships. I love to come in and and make an impact uh uh into the cities uh inform the relationships with the city uh city leaderships uh to you know make make a difference in the community and uh I will tell you I don't do anything I do if I do anything I I I go above and beyond and uh uh make sure that the site when it's said and done is not just satisfies the uh the scope of work and what the city approved during their review and approval process. Um but I take great also great pleasure frankly in beautifification. So and I will tell you like the city of Wildwood has done you know a fantastic job. Uh I think Joe told me he was there been there for 30 years right? know [laughter] uh and what uh and and obviously everybody else along the way um to shape this community and and honestly this the set it apart from other communities within the St. Louis County region. I was pretty much the South County boy up until about 3 years ago. So I lived in Oakville for 47 I'll be getting 50 so 47 years and and um this this is like I said this has been a great experience uh for my family and I'm looking to do something here to hopefully uh bring a great benefit on an economic standpoint to the city and

obviously on a convenience standpoint uh to the to the residents. Thank you. Um, so, uh, is it's my understanding that you don't have any specific tenants lined up just yet, but just interested parties.

That is that is true. Yes. Um, we basically just uh embarked on our engagement. Um, we have we we we're very well aware of the market voids, right? So, you know, Mike Mike and I will have already gone through what we call an out study and and and and frankly what uh you know when you go out to the public everybody want you know everybody has an idea right of what they want and uh uh what they like to see there. Um, and we're, you know, uh, we know going into, as a developer, I know I'm not here, you know, you can't please everybody, but I'm I'm going to try. Okay. So, uh, I think the the most important thing is is is is to perform a a quality development that's going to improve the city of Wildwood first and foremost. Um, but furthermore, Dave, I would tell you that uh the two that we're we're that we're showing here on on the site plan are very highly interested. We we uh had I would say commenced our engagement with them about two weeks ago

and really I can't further I can't further the engagement because I I really I I need to get some I need to garner uh some comfort level. Right. So because uh I mean right now you need to know there won't be roadblocks.

Right. Right. I want to make sure we're we're we're we're aligned. you know, if we're not aligned, where do we need to where do we need to uh find that that proper alignment? And then also, you know, I'm I'm sitting on proposals. I'm ready to go when and start spending money um when I when I reach that comfort level, right? So, like once again, this is this is a new experience for me after doing this for 23 years because I'm doing it in the city of Wildwood and I've never developed in the city of Wildwood at this point, right? I just so I get the comfort level comfort level there and then ultimately you know once I do then yeah I'm sitting on a couple proposals right now and uh quite you know quite quite a few dollars you know [laughter] six figure uh number there uh for civil engineering you know just site assessment um and the due diligence that I need to perform in regards to all of my studies right land but also surveys, environmental phase ones, uh geotechnical studies. Um we will obviously engage with the utility companies. We'll get utility locates out there. I get my civil engineers starting out there doing field work and then ultimately you know uh I'll understand what it's going to cost to perform the horizontal development aspect first right so grading you know all utility infrastructure access uh any internal uh maybe improvements that might be needed on Main Street um and then also understanding you retaining wall work to landscaping plan to everything to where I understand what my cost is going to be just on the horizontal side of things. I and why why I'm why I'm giving you all this description is because

you know the next step in our engagement in particular with these two is of course they want pricing from us right they [laughter] want it going to cost them well I can't give that to them until I go through all this entire exercise and this entire exercise will take me probably about uh two to three months to get to that point um I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket when it comes the end users. I do have a high level of confidence in the in the engagement engagements that we're in with these two. And the reason being is because we've done many deals with them in the past. So, we know them. And uh um we're confident we can we can get these two deals deals done. But like I said, we're not going to put all our eggs in one basket. We're going to go out and do our marketing efforts. Uh Mike's leading that charge. And uh I think once we're once once we're at that uh comfort level to to go public with uh a development uh opportunity for other end users consideration um I of course we'll get some additional interest. I'm always going to be looking at obviously you know I have a cost I have a return I have to make. I have obviously I'm at 100% risk. Uh the economics of deals are always important to everybody.

Yeah. Yeah, but especially the one that's taking on the 100% risk, right? Which is just me. Um, so hopefully that gives you more than the explanation or answer you're looking for, Dave. All right. Well, thank you. Yeah. Um, does anyone else on the committee have any comments?

I was going to ask um in relation to a couple things. Um, one being the car wash over there, obviously backing up to the neighborhood that's just adjacent to it on both sides actually. um what is the and I don't know if you've done a car wash previously this close to residential um you know developments but what is the situation relating to the noise like with vacuums and and and the other equipment going that would um potentially cause a disturbance to the the residents in that area. That was my first question. Then secondly, regarding the restaurant on the other side, are the types of engagements you're talking about or I know you can't say who it is or whatnot, but what is the time line as far as like, you know, when they're operating? Are they open really late at night? um and that kind of thing that would drive additional traffic and potential noise um for those residents or is it some type of like a coffee shop or something a different genre that would not be open you know in the evening or late type thing.

Sure. couple questions there, but I'll start with uh and if uh I'm gonna if Mike's able to to chime in, I'm gonna uh in particular, he's uh I I focus in on the site planning, right? I I'll start with the car wash and and as far as car wash, as far as the operations um and um hours of operations and Mike represents both of these end users on a tenant representation side of things. He's obviously representing me on a developer uh broker agency relationship relationship through a listing agreement that I have uh with with him and his company. But so let's start off um I'll start off with car wash. We felt like this site is really I ideal. I mean, it provides a natural landscape uh a barrier u with the uh trees and overgrown brush along the uh drainage way creek bed way there. I would tell you we we we're very mindful of of the positioning how we how we flip buildings, how we you know and we and we did this. So, we're like when you talk about the hand or the the the uh the blowers Uh Mike Mike has the information of like I will tell you this. This is this when we talk about a car wash. Let me say this first and foremost because I think it's it's prudent. This is the best operating car wash business that I know. I've known a lot of them. Not only that, they're they're they're meticulous when it comes to how they maintain their property

uh and how they continue to continuously put money into their business operation and into the property to keep it very clean and meticulous. Uh they're a n you know, yeah, they're growing fairly well. um across the country and they uh like I said an outstanding operator. Um, so for all that's worked, I I think, you know, I think some sometimes people have a perceived notion maybe negative about car washes, but it is a it is a con it is a convenience um to the community. You know, frankly,

I can give you a couple examples. Um, for instance, their employees are required to lock their phones upon arrival at work. Um, they're not allowed to show tattoos or piercings. Uh recently a manager was terminated for smoking on the premises. But the real thing I tell people is go street view any location. They're in 13 states. Uh 275 washes all corporately owned. Uh about a billion dollar market cap on the company. Uh but they uh they are you know if you street view any of them you'll see stripes in the lawn. I was with them one time. I think it was in Witchah and the building was two years old and he ordered for it to be repainted. It did not need to be repainted in my opinion, but in his opinion it did. Um [snorts] just to make it look good. Um so that that's and the other thing about the orientation of that uh wash in particular. Yeah, the tree line is a buffer. Also the uh green space dedication south of it. We could have probably fit a coffee kiosk on there. Access was a little bit questionable and we're like, you know, instead of trying to squeeze this in, let's space it out, especially with the wash. Cuz obviously, you know, having done a lot of these, I I get the complaint. But on the orientation of that wash, we're purposely pointing it at the acreage uh south of the McKelie development where it's uh predominantly flood plane cuz the blowers are the noise. The vac really aren't that loud. It's the blowers. And we point the blowers at the flood plane on purpose just to kind of give you some background on how we fiddled around with the site plan a little bit.

Any any further questions on the car wash site plan? Um this is Cliff Alers. I I have a couple things if

Yeah, go ahead, Cliff. Um, so, uh, I got three things. First, the entrances to both locations, depending on how popular they are, are we uh, in danger of having traffic spill out onto uh, 109 if there is a weight to get in the place places. That's my first thing. And and I I know this is a upscale car wash, but there are car washes at the two gas stations right here, the AMO, no, the BP and I think it's the Phillips across the street. And then there's another one up at the mobile station across from um uh Shnooks. Just just to mention, we have a few car washes in the area already. And I know the residents in both Cambury and Main Street crossing have voiced complaints about water pressure. So I don't know, especially with the car wash, how this would affect any of those concerns. And and those are my three things to bring up right now.

Thank you, Cliff. And um the I I live about two blocks south of where this is going to go in and I also have those water pressure concerns. But I've uh Joe, correct me if I'm wrong, but um the line for at least Viola Gill, that's just a spur off of Old Manchester. And would would this enable us to help get connected into the loop to help the water pressure? Mr. Chair, I don't know yet, but Mr. Brown and I've met with Missouri American Water Company over the course of the last year or so and there is a major upgrade that's planned and they're going to create a loop that for the most part will follow Route 100 out west to around Wild Horse Creek Road then loop back along Manchester Road to serve all of this area plus properties east of Route 109 between those two major roadways. So, it's not eminent, but there is a plan. And that's one of the things we look at with all of our resonings in this area is getting in input from Missouri American Water Company to make sure that if we do have housing or businesses that we have ample water to serve them.

All right. Thank you. So wait, Mike, do you want to you want to speak to I mean as far as the the traffic generation and and maybe concern of uh the issues of access uh ingress and egress? Uh sure. Talk about the water first. I mean I don't

Yeah, the the water um I can get you like real specific numbers. Um, but they have a huge reclamation portion of their wash. Basically, most of the wash is filtered water that's recycled and I think the final like 15% is fresh water just make sure customers leave with no residue whatsoever. Um, but then to address the traffic question, so if you look at the site plans, um, we program stacking into the site plans to hopefully address that issue. But to your point, we did competent plate uh curb cuts closer to the or further east, I guess we'll say, but it gets closer to the residence. So, it's really us trying to be conscious of keeping the entry and exiting traffic with flash of headlights closer to the roundabout at 109 where that, you know, lighting visual is already going on. Um, but by all means, we could be open to moving that. You know, Joe mentioned that too, I think during our prelim meeting. Um, but it was really just to kind of keep everything up towards the road and away from the residents. And you'll notice, uh, the stacking cues are are pretty deep. Uh, in particular on the QSR, you have to like loop around the north end and come down the west. So that would afford it, you know, a dual lane stack converging to a single, which I forget the exact car count, but I'm guessing it's in the 15 to 20 range, which would be a very packed uh, QSR. We were cognizant of especially on the QSR, we were kind of cognizant of

of the traffic just you know the functionality um and that so we ended up decided to do an access point or propose an access point I should say off of Cambury as well and because there's a obviously additional cost to that uh especially that's a drainage way too. Uh we have full intentions if we get the approvals uh that we need. Uh we're going to clean that side of the property up. We're going to and we'll put a new fence up and we're just going to be we're going to beautify it. Um it looks terrible right now. Um you're not wrong about that.

So uh that will that will all be kind of part of our obviously our our plans uh in particular landscaping plan. Now, I will tell you, you know, I'm not sure if I'm getting ahead of myself here, but I will I will mention this and depending on will probably two two different uh submitts, application submitts. One will be the first submitt will be for site work on both um parcels and then we'll come in behind with building application submittals. Okay.

And Mr. Mr. Vunich, I believe that this is already zoned for commercial. Uh what will have to go through planning and zoning? U Mr. Chair, actually it's non- urban resident district zoning. We didn't change the zoning at the time we did the platting of Main Street Crossing.

Oh, okay. And we the rationale was um usually we use the plan district the C8 and we didn't have a plan to create the ordinance and to just generally designate it commercial um just wasn't something that the department nor the commission nor city council thought was appropriate. We wanted to wait until we had something that we could look at, use that plan if it's acceptable to create the ordinance and then ensure that we have the guarantees that we all want, including the developer. Okay, I got you. Thank you. You're welcome.

Any other questions from the uh committee? Mayor Garitano.

All right. Thank you very much uh for the opportunity to speak. chair and uh thanks to the petitioners who are here tonight providing an overview of this concept plan and uh appreciate you taking advantage of this meeting because this is an opportunity for you to hear feedback and therefore uh you can get a good sense of what you're looking at if it's something that you decide to move forward with. Uh we started this type of meeting back around 2018 or 2017 a as a way for not only um petitioners like yourselves to be able to get feedback but it's a good opportunity for residents to hear about a concept plan that might be coming down the road. So, uh, with this, I mean, I do have, I appreciate your interest, uh, in in bringing in some commercial type amenities to the area. Um, you know, we are looking at our Wildwood Town Center, which is about 2% of the area of the whole state of the whole city. And so the town center being 800 acres in size, you know, is specifically designated as the place for higher density and for commercial development. Um and as you could see when you're driving through being residents of Wildwood yourselves. So um we have a an area called the downtown district in the town center. Uh this is not in the downtown district. Uh but east of here when you get towards the area of Wildwood City Hall and then east of that area all the way to Taylor and into the Deerberg Center, those are all the downtown district areas and that's our most highest density area. Um you'll notice it obviously when you go through there we have commercial. It's

actually the only area that we allow drive-thrus until most recently where we've looked at several parcels for the option to do drive-thru. Um, which certainly opens it up. Thank you for for sharing that. Yes, this is the outlined in red is the town center. Everything inside the red is town center. Everything outside is not uh town center. So, um, you know, I I appreciate that because the whole idea about Town Center is to have walkable amenities for residents and and that's why people come to move here in neighborhoods like Cambury, you know, where you can just step out of your home, be able to walk and uh hopefully one day walk all the way through Town Center. um you know the the things that I probably have some reservations and some concerns about um and if you could please maybe go back to that prior slide, the one that showed Yes, thank you very much. Um and this has already been mentioned before is um that car washes can be loud and being right next to the homes in uh Main Street Crossing, which are those homes right there. and uh and even Camberry, you know, that I have a lot of concerns, you know, the noise from vacuums, the drive uh the dryers, um those would be uh something that I would be extremely concerned about. um the drive-thru, you know, also the stacking of cars, especially when you look at, you know, a heavy snow event where we get a lot of salt on the roads, it's pretty typical to drive by some of the more popular car washes and see those cars stacked. So, I do wonder about that. And seeing that if the um usable space within that parcel was used

up, uh it would then overflow into Main Street. Um the also the two businesses there, the car wash that you're proposing, the restaurant and you know it's just the the lighting from from those type of businesses could disrupt the u kind of neighborhood ambiance that you're kind of right next to at night. So that would be a concern of mine as well as what hours you would be operating these businesses. Um, the other thing is in Wildwood, you probably notice this, there is a certain look and feel when you go into our town center. Um, you could see it when you look at the Wildwood Hotel or you go into the Deerberg Shopping Center. Um or you look at even the architecture of the other buildings in the town center like the movie theater or city hall or the American Village which is the uh senior home. uh there's a certain standard, a high standard with a high bar we hold and it's hard to see what you have here with with with this because I don't think our residents and certainly from an architectural perspective, we're going to want to see things kind of be look like how they look in other areas. I mean, we want to keep that unique feel to it. And you see it even in other communities in West County. uh if you go you will see that some communities do a really good job at it. We've been doing a really good job at it and I don't think we want to let go of that. So whatever gets proposed, I think regardless of whether it's a car wash, a restaurant, I'm always looking to see are is there good high quality material? Does it look and feel different?

um you know with the restaurant looking at the drive-thru there you know from a perspective of Wildwood you know if you go down the road on Route 100 and you go east and you don't have to go too far you'll enter into the next neighboring city Ellisville and it's one drive-thru after another you get bombarded with drive-throughs um compared to what we've have in Wildwood um and certainly I think That's something that I think we want to manage in Wildwood, not to get to that point where it's like that because Wildwood's done such a good job preserving our city, the look, the feel like that. So, whatever gets proposed is going to go through a very detailed uh you know, scrutiny, you know, to look at what it is. So, I I uh I think you've gotten some feedback from folks here. I know the folks really well over in Main Street and Cambury. Um, I was their council member for 10 years. Um, I was their uh council member before even the newer homes were built in Camberry when it was still open land except for the town homes. Um, I was a council member u 2015. I think that's around the time when we started seeing Main Street crossing. And I remember when that was a field. Um so I've gotten to know those people really well. And if you've kind of been in tune in watching um recent proposals that have come up that neighbor these neighborhoods, they're very engaged group of people. They really truly care about what's around them. They love Wildwood. They want to really protect their assets and their property. And so I don't think they'll be afraid of holding back how they feel

because I uh I've seen them and and they really do care about the community. And so for anyone, this is my advice. Uh whether it's you guys or anyone, I I my advice is you have to talk to those neighborhoods, their HOAs, and get them on board. Mhm.

Make sure that you know you've addressed their concerns, their questions, and uh because the voice of the HOA holds weight. Uh we've always said it at city hall. In fact, that's how I got involved. I was never intending to be a council person or uh where I am today as mayor. And so, uh, the these folks have gone through a lot in in trying to shape their neighborhoods and taken over their HOAs and all. So, you know, the feedback I hear, I I share this feedback is I I feel uneasy about what we're we're looking at here. And I again I don't say to discourage you from thinking of other ideas, but I I think you need to sell the people on something that's going to be an asset to the community and not something that could create a disturbance to the community. Um so I I know from what I'm hearing it sounds like you're very ambitious and you're ready to move quickly. I can assure you um that doesn't happen uh so quickly in Wildwood. Uh, I think we're very intentional about going through a very detailed process here. Um, and and that's why I think Wildwood is Wildwood the way it is. Um, so, um, you know, again, I I mean, just that seeing what's in front of me right now, I again, I will say I'm not excited about it. I I I think there has to be something unique about what you're proposing. And when I when I see a restaurant, I don't know what kind of restaurant or what it is. Is it your just typical fast food restaurant or are you thinking of a concept, something that's very unique? And maybe to give you some thought, you know, if you're going to put something maybe next to a residential neighborhood, um, you know, I think it has to be

something that kind of blends in with the area, not something that sticks out or or creates a disturbance. Um, and and it's like you want something that architecturally kind of blends in, fits in. Again, I don't know that because we're only looking at this here. But also something that, you know, is is unique just like Wildwood is unique. Um, and again, the car wash, again, I think there's a lot of questions about that, but I know you mentioned the way you've designed it that you're saying you're trying to address the noise concerns. Uh but uh I think that I would start with first reaching out to the HOA and seeing getting their feedback. Uh but you know I again at this at this point right now I just don't um feel comfortable providing any kind of endorsement for this. I'm being honest with you. I'm just trying to give you feedback. Um, you know, Joe Vo can tell you I'm usually a lot harsher in these meetings. Sometimes I even just drop off. Um, so, um, but but again, uh, I really appreciate the interest, but I I think knowing the community there, uh, and at least the feedback I've gotten, I think they will they will challenge uh, something that creates a disturbance in their area. Well, Mayor, first and foremost, I I appreciate your your cander and I appreciate your your guidance. Um, uh, completely understand. I I obviously this is a very preliminary plan, right? I mean, I don't I understand, especially on the QSR site, you know, we got cut and fill. I mean, there's plans uh at least the vision in my head is how we're going to create additional buffers uh from the the resident behind uh res

behind us and we'll have a little bit of a hillside. We put some tree like so there's yeah there's there's a there there's a tremendous amount of enhancements that would go into our design and uh planning and design for these. I I always on what's you know once again appreciate um what residents are going to want and and and honestly what's what's feasible from an economic standpoint uh I understand that the drive-thru may concerns um but drive-throughs obviously produce it's a convenience and and frankly those restaurants that have drive-throughs produce greater amount of sales which also so there's always going to be pros and cons. I've been doing this for 23 years and I've gone up again and all I'm trying to do is good, right? So, just know this. Everybody just, you know, I'm not I'm not the enemy. I am a resident of the city of Wildwood, too. But I also take that into if if this was, you know, in another city and state that I'm doing a development in. I if I'm going to invest in a community, I'm investing all of myself into that community. And I'm not a developer that's just going to uh do a development and and leave and not care, you know, uh what I leave behind. Uh once again, I take pride in it. But all that stuff is is is is really, you know, doesn't matter when it comes to the public, right? They're going to feel strong about what they feel strong in um because where they invested their dollars, where they invested their livelihood, right? and in the location that they chose to invest that livelihood which is near a commercial corridor. All

right. Uh full intentions 100% mayor. We will uh we're not looking to uh we're looking to conform. I mean knew that going in. I mean, my uh obviously in this long enough to know that um I did not read your guys' building, you know, standards, requirements, what have you, but I've done enough development in towns, I say cities, uh that want everything to be all brick, you know, and my client wants, you know, ephus and some stone, you know, uh access uh accents and stuff like that. So we so we conform but we know that going you know we know that going in. Um we I don't like to waste time. I don't like to waste you know my time or anybody's time. So moreover my client's time too right. So uh and there's some there's there's there's some national and regional end users uh that will not you know um pivot pivot away from their prototypical building. That's their brand. That's that's that's a part of their recognition. Uh and uh and so you know we cross those those guys off the list right it narrows our pool our the more our pool gets narrowed and those and a pool is who can afford it too who's willing to pay because this is going to be more an expensive site I I knew going in not just the land value the site work's going to be a tremendous amount of money uh I'm estimating with this these two users plus everything else total project uh development project cost is going to be around 12 to$15 million. All right. Um so we're very calculated, very aware. Um there is a reputation out there too [laughter] from those that that we that we interface with the within the real

estate community from you know engineers to you name it. Uh, and you know what? I I actually applaud it once again cuz I am there's a reason why I also will tell you on a personal level. I'm talking more personal, but I am a resident and and I love and every every project I do, uh, Mike will attest, I it's all about beautifification. It's a, you know, and and in and keeping the not just the property, but serving the community and the way that the community needs to be served. So, everybody's property value hopefully continues to rise. You know, uh we obviously, you know, things go along with the neighborhood associations and stuff like that that uh like solar panels, you know, people want to put solar panels on roof. Like I I think aesthetically that doesn't look good. I'm not going to put solar panels on on on my commercial buildings because I aesthetically I don't think it looks good. I think it's an eyesore. I think it honestly depreciates it value. So, there's there's a lot of things that we look at and and uh and and I know we're going to go up and I appreciate I don't I don't you're not I guess comfortable with what you're seeing right now. I'm not either. I I look at I look at a plan and it's very very basic. If we came up with a plan, uh, even with these two end users, it would it would conform to what the city standards are. Now, is it going to be accepted with the public? Well, I there's not one development I've ever done in the past 23 years that I got 100% of acceptance from the public, even from, you know, city leadership. Um, but after I got that major the majority vote and I did what I did and I said what I I I said what I did what I said I was going to do. Uh, everybody

welcomes up to it, you know, it's just the nature of of of my business, frankly. So, only here to do good and and make an impact, a positive impact, sir. So,

yeah. No, I appreciate that. And and one thing I didn't mention is uh and I kind of started off by this is that you know we have like the downtown district and and I think you know like um easily I I think like the restaurant concept that you have there like in the downtown district I I don't think there would probably be any challenge or question about it right we have um already restaurants with drive-thru like the bread company um we even had um you fast food at one time, uh, which was formerly a Jack in the Box with the drive-thru. Um, but you know, again, those areas don't like when you look at the downtown district, you don't have any like home adjacent to it. So, it makes it more flexible to work with like some of those are ideal because you don't have that. But when you're bordering up against folks that live there and go to sleep at night, um you know, they're worried about like are they going to go to bed at night hearing uh vacuums and things like that. So, so I think it's only fair I have to ask bring that up. I have to bring that up because we do I have to look out for those residents and other folks here have mentioned that concern as well. So, so again, that's why I think there is going to be a little uh there's going to be even more scrutiny because these these lots are somewhat surrounded already by commercial uh by residents. Now, there is two gas stations there. So, we acknowledge there is some commercial there, but I'll tell you, even over the past years, I've gotten complaints about the the gas station, especially the one on the east side of 109 over the years. I haven't gotten any most recently, but um but there there have been issues. Uh so um you know I think we want to definitely try to maintain or improve the quality of life. Um and you know I think that's one thing that Wildwood does a really

good job is that it does listen to its people. We're very responsive to our residents and hopefully you've seen that as well. And so, um, you know, that's that's why we're sharing this feedback with you. Um, and and then it's up to you. That's your decision what you do with it. Certainly, we hope you listen to the feedback. Uh, but I think that's, uh, very helpful. And again to you know in the absence of information like knowing um even like a conceptual drawing

um it's sometimes an issue where you know folks just sometimes assume the worst and the per the worst scenario. So, I think to not knowing some things or not knowing what to expect or what it is exactly or what kind of traffic volumes you're going to see, uh, it just makes it challenging. It makes it difficult. So, um, you know, I I want you to know that. Um, but you know, do know the history that, you know, there it's it's a very tight-knit community that definitely makes its feelings known as to how they feel about something and, you know, we've seen that already. Um, and certainly, you know, residents have that right to to do that. So, um, but but like I said, I still stand kind of where I'm still feel uneasy about it because I just don't um, you know, given the proximity to the residences and what you're proposing there.

Well, I once again I thank you and and everything's well well received and and noted. So, thank you very much.

Uh, just to address a couple things. the uh two top prospects I would say are very much chameleons as far as their architecture goes. Um I can think of an instance with the QSR where we had to do a false second floor in uh Metropolitan Nashville recently. Um and there's it's just dead. There's nothing up there. But aesthetically they had to do it to garner municipal approval. Um, the wash can also adapt their architectural standards, but they have some tower elements that they like. It just be wrapped in like the tan I'm guessing the tan brick and the limestone accents I see through the uh town center there. Um, but certainly Joe, if you have specs on any of the kind of go-to color schematics, that'd be very helpful to have early on so we can kind of set the tone with our users.

Be glad to provide that. And then uh the m the um the um when we do the layouts on the particular on the one QSR pad closer uh to the BP, we put it up on the road away from the homes. While we do that, we garner the distance. We actually go a lot lower on the elevation, too. I think we're talking about nearly 15 ft from where those residents are uh above us down to where the finished floor elevation would be of the QSR pad. Um so there's a couple distance items in play that we've been thinking about. Also, the speaker box we kind of directed uh north towards the gas station rather than uh on the east side towards the home. So, just want you to recognize we are

right. What's the majority of QSR's hours of operation? That was a question that was asked before that we did not answer yet. So, you're cutting not really bad to probably 10 or 11. I'm sorry. I'm driving in the middle of Alabama here. um that I'm thinking it's 7 to 11 for the QSR, but I know for a fact the wash is 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. So it it will not be, you know, late into bedtimes. Okay. Thanks, Mike. I'll mute myself. Sorry, guys.

Yep. You're good. Thank you. Yeah. And do we get complaints about the noise from the wash at the BP station? Currently over time we've gotten complaints from Camberry. Uh we orientated the wash obviously um north and south so that it wouldn't go east. Um, and for the most part, they're supposed to keep the doors closed when the car is inside the the wash unit itself.

I don't know if that's being done, but the Philips 66, there's nothing around it right now. So, not gotten any complaints about the operation of their car wash. Okay. Yeah, because that the wash at the BP station, I'm pretty sure that's right up against some of those Cambury units. Um and and there there'll definitely be a lot more space here. Well, again, just historically, the AMO BP AMO station predated Wildwood there. They came in right after the incorporation wanting to expand and they needed a car wash and

at [clears throat] that time we had yet to see the Camberry development. So, right sequencing it was BP Ammo then Camberry. Oh, I I'm I'm well aware. But yeah, but I I know there's not much distance there between the two buildings. A lot less than going to be here, I feel like.

Very much so. Very much so. And just from my perspective after COVID and I started being able to work from home a few days a week, I I started patronizing the former Lion's Choice at the Philip 66. I was real disappointed when that shut down because now for granted their prices have gone up a fair amount, but for reasonable quick food I basically have to leave Wildwood. Um, so I I I'm in the minority, but I would personally love something I can walk to. Um,

yeah. I mean, if we're being totally honest here, you know, I have a 15-year-old, 13-year-old, and a nine-year-old, and they love two particular QSR drive-throughs, and I had to go 13 minutes to get to them. And that's honestly where the uh light bulb popped in my head. Um, I was trying to do a primrose school here. They passed on it and just started, you know, thinking about what we needed. And that's really how we got there. Just the practicality of it. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. the top prospect is not some unique destination one. There's thousands of them. So um you know but I think it serves a very practical role in the city.

Well it also it's also you know retain you know the leakage the sales leakage. Yeah I mean it's an opportunity because there's few opportunities is like when the mayor was speaking it's like you know the only opportunity is along 109. every single commercial user would love to be on 100 rather than 109 because of the traffic count but at the same time um you know few few opportunity and and I think the opportunity with the things that we have to continue to explore and we will be enhancing upon based on the feedback uh and also meeting with the uh HOA members with both subdivisions um I'm excited about it not just you know the opportunity if it all can work out. I understand the some of the challenges that have been um addressed here but I think I think as as we enhance upon things and I think the comfort level will will increase. [laughter] So

all right well um we've been going for an hour now and I do have to teach in about 15 minutes and would like to get a slice of the pizza I brought home. So, um, is there any final discussion before we adjourn? Yeah, David. Yes, sir. Just just one quick comment. I was there when Canberry came in to build after the gas station.

And the mayor's right, the people, you know, when there's nothing there, then how can you do this to me? But you guys do this on a a professional basis. The water line was a big concern. Everybody out there is complaining about water. So, and and I certainly understand the efficiency of the the car wash, but I think the roundabout uh really opens up a lot of opportunity to deal with the traffic issues that that would be there. But, uh it it will be tough because uh you know, everybody it's kind of a drawbridge mentality. Once I get my house, no one else can have one. But those lots have been there, as we all know, for 30 years. And uh I I just think that if it's done right, it could be very successful. It's going to be a tough one. Um, but I the f the first thing as soon as someone comes out, they're all going to talk about water pressure. So, I would deal with that one. Uh, and I know that you could probably run the car wash off of a garden hose, but that's not their issue. The issue is any kind of development uh creates a a challenge, and I don't think their water pressure has anything to do with any of the development will be going in, but but overall, it will be challenging. I would also be aware of the city's sign provisions uh as you get on into the development there. is along the the trail, but uh the sign uh regulations might be a little bit different than what you've had in some of the other locations. That's it for me. I wish you the best of luck if you try and put something together.

Thank you. All right. Thank you, Councilman Marshall. Um any find anything else or a motion to adjurnn? So moved. All right. Motion to adjurnn. Is there a second? I'll second. All right. Seconded by uh Councilman Galani. Um all those in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Any abstain? All right, we're ajourned. Thank you everyone.