Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

good evening everyone uh I'd like to call to order the March 4th 2025 uh meeting for the Planning and Zoning commission for the City of Fenton our first item on the agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance so please stand if you're able hey thank you our next item is our roll call uh secretary Abbott if you could take roll please uh yes sir thank you uh chairperson yman here uh Vice chairperson Cheryl here Abbott is here Alderman Harold here mayor Morra here commissioner Wiis Brock here commissioner Vorhees here uh commissioner Glover is Nelson here biky have seven great thank you um and do we have any City officials today sorry no worries uh well we have Mike Abbot from The Parks Board and well Robin's here somewhere okay okay roolling around all right thank you secretary have it um our next item is our notice to the public uh so and our ground rules if you wish to speak please uh pick up a speaker request form these forms are located at the signin table in the back please complete the form and present it to secretary Deb Abbott prior to the public comment section of the agenda the chairperson will call your name during the public comment section of the agenda your comments and questions from the members of the public will be limited to 3 minutes they will not be recognized to speak until you

have filled out the form please address all comments to the Planning and Zoning commission if you have a question for a petitioner please address that question directly to the commission all questions will be referred to the petitioners at the end of the public comment portion of the agenda the commission demands respect and courtesy for others during the proceedings inappropriate behavior will result in the forfeiture of the speaker's allotted time and may result in removal from the proceedings the Planning and Zoning commission wants to hear what you have to say about the items on today's agenda as it relates to cases at present and next we have our notice to petitioners the next board committee meeting is Thursday March 13th at uh uh I'm sorry March 13 2025 uh the next Board of alderman meeting and public hearing is Thursday March 27th 2025 also a simple majority vote of the commission shall be necessary to constitute a positive recommendation the board of alderman okay so that that covers our notices uh next uh we have on the agenda our approval of our minutes from our February 4th uh 2025 meeting did anyone have any comments or Corrections for the minutes okay given that there are none I'd like to move that we approve the uh February 4th uh Planning and Zoning minutes can I get a second commissioner commissioner Wiis Brock seconds all in favor I I and wasn't here okay one abstention any opposed okay the minutes are approved all right uh so this now takes us to our public comments uh portion of the agenda um don't believe we received any forms I know there's a short amount of time were there any members of the

public who are not petitioners who wanted to speak tonight okay um so then we can move on to Old business and the first item uh only item is case 2024 txt2 consideration of amendments to the zoning code related to the comprehensive development plan uh Amy did you have any comments on this just a request to continue okay I think everyone uh is likely in favor of that so I'll go ahead and move uh that we continue case 2024 txt2 the consideration of amendments to the zoning code related to comprehensive development plan we'll continue that to the next meeting um all in favor I can I get a second oh yeah I gotta get a second I get a sorry okay a second from uh Kevin sorry uh all in favor I I any opposed okay that item's continued uh so and then we move on to new business uh and the first case we have tonight is 2025 su4 a petition by Patricia omarov for a special use permit to operate a used automotive sales establishment at 524 gravo Road the property is zoned ot2 Oldtown District do you have a summary for us Amy I do um the petitioner is requesting to operate uh a special use permit to operate a used automotive sales establishment and that is on a .15 acre lot on at 524 grao Road the use is defined as an establishment primarily engaged in the sale of used automobiles including incidental outdoor display parking and indoor servicing of such Vehicles available for sale um there is no there was do not appear to be any indoor servicing proposed because it doesn't appear that that building would accommodate indoor servicing and because

of the definition no outdoor servicing would be um permitted as well um the petitioner submitted two site plans the first showed 10 proposed spaces in the rear lot but no parking space dimensions or drive aisles were provided so it was unclear how access to those spaces would be um provided a second aerial um site plan was submitted showing that they're proposing seven 9 by8 spaces the petitioner stated that these spaces would be parallel parking and would not include um parking for employees or customers and that would be provided in the front um when looking at the dimensions of the lot um according to the site plan on file it's approximately 111 fet from the rear lot line um to the southwest corner of the building um in order to provide seven 9 by8 spaces you would need 126 linear feet from the rear lot line um so it would not be possible to provide seven parallel spaces without uh locating one of the spaces in this area between the building and the lot line um and that would effectively block access to the rear lot um it is noted that parallel spaces under the code need are required to be 9 by 22 not 9 by 18 so at the required length Not only would access to the rear lot be blocked um but an additional space would be would uh have to be provided um in front of the uh the front elevation line of the building um the lot is accessed by a continuous curb cut along grabo Road the subject lot and the adjacent lots to the East and to the South are completely paved um so it gives the appearance of a collective parking lot however no cross access easements between the Lots uh was found on file and the site plan shows um that was on file with the commun development department shows that there's approximately only 5 feet

between the building and the East lot line so the only access to the rear of the lot would be by uh on the West Side here so uh we would not uh permit any parking spaces to be located there because it would effectively uh block access to the rear of the lot um as previously stated that petitioners indicated the employee and customer parking would be provided in front a Revis site plan was requested and at the time uh the memo went out a revised site plan had not been uh submitted to indicate where those spaces would be um and um as as of now we have not received a Revis site plan showing that either um so before a an occupancy permit would be um approved by the Community Development Department a revised site plan to scale would need to be um submitted showing the total number of spaces and the dimensions for the spaces for the inventory customer and employee parking and staff suggests that the lot also be striped in accordance um with the code to indicate those spaces as well um finally the fent and Fire Protection District may have additional requirements to ensure access for emergency vehicles and staff is requesting that any minor changes to the site plan required by fent and Fire Protection District be aditt administratively approved when in compliance with the code okay um thank you I think before we start to go into questions I would like to call attention to the um section 41080 B4 criteria that we use to determine a special use permit I'm going to read those go into the record um the first is that said use is designated located and proposed to be operated in a manner that the public health safety and general welfare will be protected the second is that visual compatibility with surrounding land uses including Building

height form materials and Landscaping third accessibility of the property to police fire refu collection and other Municipal Services adequacy of Ingress to and within the site traffic control adequacy quacy of off street parking spaces fourth said use will not cause substantial injury to the value of adjacent Lots or other Lots in the surrounding area and then last the use authorized by special use permit will conform to the applicable regulations of the zoning District in which it is to be located and I just call those to the attention of the commission because um that's a criteria we use when making the decision to issue a special use permit I want to just remind everyone to consider those factors as we um consider the um request in front of us are there other questions for Amy before we ask the petitioner to come up I think one other item of clarification Amy that I think was in the materials and you may have said it and I apologize if you did the um access for vehicular traffic based on the layout of the lot is limited to one side of the building yes that's correct um so access to the lot is off of grab Way Road but in order to get to the rear of the lot um we'd only be able to to use the west side of the of the lot because there's only five feet between the building and the adjacent lot line and there's no cross access easement on file that would allow um access to travel over that so even a car could pass through the building structures they would be encroaching on the neighboring property

that's correct okay okay um good to know mam so uh Amy does that mean that the accessible side what is that distance between the corner of the building and the lot line on the west side or the east side I'm going to call it the West Side the only accessible side um it's a a maximum maum of 14t and it Narrows down because the the lot does narrow down um to about 11t yeah it's 4.5 on the on the east side but on the west side I uh I'm talking about drive-thru side it would about 14 here at the widest point and 11 feet here at the narrowest point okay from the southwest corner of the of the building and there's there's no access from the rear of the lot correct there's no no public roadway or anything that allows access to back that's correct there is no okay you have to pass around the side of the structure the delineation go back to that other can you see where uh yes that that dash line it just say a 90 degree Baseline I'm not sure what that is indicating um this was an old site plan that we had on file it was the only one that was to scale that I was able to measure okay any other questions for Amy um we for sure ask the petitioner to come up but wanted to okay do we have a petitioner in the audience would like to

speak so we have a Podium over here and if you could state your name and address uh for the record and please use the microphone uh because we may have folks uh who are calling in from Zoom so if you could just state your name and address please Patricia ovich 622 IV Gate Drive 63129 welcome um so uh you're interested in starting a used car dealership yes uh can you tell us just a little bit about how you plan to use the space I plan on going to an auction a car a licensed Au auction for dealers and buying cars and taking it to the lot parking it in the back um s only used cars selling only used cars and pretty much it okay um so I think you can probably tell from the discussions we've been having that we have some concerns about the way the lot lays out and the ability to move vehicles to the back area as well as um indicate that you have room to have the number of cars there that you intend to sell um you know it's the responsibility of this group to make sure that if there is a business going into the area that um those considerations that I read into the record are addressed and one of them is that there has to be ability for Access through the lot without parked

cars obstructing the ability for fire and trash and other safety concerns to be addressed and I think the challenge that we're having right now is that the level of detail in the parking that has been provided to the city thus far at least in my opinion does not provide enough indication of where cars are going to go to ensure that there will be sufficient room for Access pretty important for you could you state your name and address for the record please okay uh Russell Sebert okay um I'm the owner of the building property okay what was your address sir Mr cber what was your address I'm sorry it's just we do that for everyone we ask for their name and address for okay the address my address yes 4812 Pagel Road motto Missouri okay thank you and you were saying okay um so the uh that is a shared we have a a shared sign agreement for an easement between those two buildings so each property owner can share them uh that that other property was owned by my family also put that agreement together for Enterprise caral uh for their car operation oh probably 20 years ago and proof of that they at one point in time had I don't know how many vehicles they had so there is a signed agreement and I will forward that to you for consideration yeah so you're saying it's between so the as the you see the diagram okay so the building next to you 520 as it's indicated here you're saying there's an easement between you and that uh adjacent property there's a a shared agreement

easement between the two parties for the two uh two properties because of that exact reason what you were that you brought up okay there's not enough room important to have that for both property okay so typically easements of that nature are filed in the public land records and would be available to the city to see and I don't believe the city had a record of of that easement um so uh we can continue to discuss this matter under the assumption that what you're saying is true but it'll be a condition that'll certainly be added to the record um and I don't know that it fully addresses all of our concerns I think I think even if there is an easement that satisfies the sort of legal review that the city would have to do to make sure it addresses the Ingress and egress concerns there's still a question of um I mean are you are you suggesting that it would also cover parking or you know because as it stands today an easement can allow you to maybe get through the buildings but then you're still confined to the narrow space to park typically hasn't been a problem with the 30 something 40 years we've been down in that operating that location and Enterprise was actually running their operation out of this location Opera our insurance agency and one point in time I don't know how many it was it didn't interrupt our business our insurance agency and at that time we probably had 10 people they at one point in time they probably had to have 10 12 plus veh not counting the staff that

working that's I mean I understand that there's a friendly arrangement with you and the neighboring property I think the challenge it presents for us to make a decision that we we need a level of detail on where the cars are going to go so that we can have confidence that you know in a worst case scenario let's say there's a fire on either one of those buildings fent and fires got to come in and get the trucks to where they need to be to put out the fire if we don't have a plan that clearly indicates where your cars are going to be on the lot then we could be approving something that all ows you to essentially block their access and create a health hazard for those two buildings I understand so and I just don't think anything that's been submitted thus far again this is my opinion we'll have to vote to ultimately determine this but in my opinion nothing that's been submitted thus far gives the commission enough information about where cars are going to go to make an effective decision and far as the buildings are so close to the road there far as a fire department we go put it right there on the street too if they hopefully that would never happen that that services are not needed but it's an it's an unlikely concern I acknowledge but it's one that we have to take seriously and if we don't if we don't have a level of detail and agreement on how you're going to be operating the cars on the lot then it's going to be very hard for us I think to approve this okay um do you go ahead is Enterprise how far back do your records go on what the process they did to approve it I mean would you happen to have that on files yeah we do I did I did look into that um it looked like there was a special use permit for

Enterprise and I think it was in maybe early 2000 um and they did share the parking lot with the adjacent lot um however under our code activities have to be related to the principal use on the co on the lot and the code does not allow for off- premises operations so parking vehicles for sale on the adjacent lot would not be permitted because that would not relate to the principal use of the adjacent lot okay is that is that uh shared agreement on the on the easement area in that file also it it was not I did not find that okay we can get that to you that's that would be great so I I want to draw attention to you those that last statement that Amy made is important yeah so I don't know how the code read at the time that Enterprise was using the lot but the way the code reads today would not allow for you to actually Park cars on that adjacent lot even with an easement it might allow for Ingress and egress you know coming and going but it would not allow for cars to remain parked on that adjacent lot no point in time did okay I don't know what what point in time all the years they operated never on our side because there wasn't any room on our side we had a full arm okay so so I don't know how that played out on the map they had many more than okay well I think I think what would be very helpful would be one to produce the easen and then two we really need a detailed architectural or you know um

AutoCAD if you know what that is you know a drawing using survey equipment and I realize that's comes at some cost but you you need a qualified person to draw up a plan that shows how the parking of the cars is going to be arranged with with detailed measurements so that we can understand how you intend to arrange the cars on the lot sure and I think I I think why you're holding maybe the space back and maybe that's exactly what should and I apologize for that is the just using on if it consider that all the activity like Enterprise used was between the two buildings or parking space spaces closer to the building yeah well this the city the city has ordinances that indicate how all of it should should work and if you're comfortable you know reading and interpreting that then I would encourage you you need to you know you need to make sure you're staying consistent with the way the ordinances read if that's something you're not comfortable with perhaps whoever you hire to help you draw this up will have a little more comfort with reading the city's code but it needs to comply um and and that'll make it I think a lot easier for you then to come back and explain to us how many cars you intend to have back there I I also just want to you know set your expectations that it's a small lot and so you know we're even even with a more detailed drawing we're still going to have to really consider whether the amount cars there feels appropriate for the space and safety concerns we're raising definely so um I think it would be my

recommendation that we try to continue this to next month if uh which means that you know we wouldn't we wouldn't be voting on it tonight we would be um basically giving you another month to pull together these additional materials and then um submit them to the city and then next month we'll come back with a little more information and maybe be able to make a decision I think there's other Commissioners and City officials mayor no I I think you uh I think you outlined that pretty well Mrs um hope I don't mess this up Omar roic do you do you do you currently have a lot somewhere else I do not have you operated a lot before no okay um I I just don't want to give false expectations even though we bring back a cross access agreement because I think you're exactly right from 2000 and I remember the uh car dealer or the laner car um but we've had several changes since that time which I think you alluded to um I just don't want to send these folks away um with the false expectations because I think this one is probably just a little little pushing that special use permit privilege at least in my mind and I think you know you uh you read into the records some of the concerns uh that we have to look at so uh from my perspective I'm just I'm just trying to be fair and honest with that yeah would you advocate for a vote tonight then uh I probably would but that's just me okay are are there other members of the commission that feel similarly I mean the mayor's not wrong I there you all will likely incur some cost to provide drawings that will meet the standard that I'm expecting and if

we're just going to ultimately say no anyway because we have other concerns about the size of the lot and the ability to put cars on it I think there's a fair uh point that the mayor is making that maybe a vote tonight um ultimately uh saves save some money for uh our petitioners here if that's where everybody thinks they're going to be regardless so um this isn't obviously an official vote but I'd like to sort of maybe get an idea from whatever comments people are willing to make whether they would you know prefer a vote I'd be willing to make absolutely um so got the seven spaces laid out where are can you speak into your microphone please where are you putting the cars are they going in those seven spaces yes ma'am okay and um the seven spaces you have are not large enough according to our code so you need four more feet space which is Cut You Down five spaces so that means you're only going to have five cars sale this is something that me that's not a very Lory um for a car lot so I'd kind of like to see us either or take a vote tonight as of right now I'll be honest I vote favor of this because it's I don't feel that safe go ahead this is this is something just to start me off as like I'm doing this by myself so I'm not wanting it to be like a huge

inventory and put a lot of pressure on myself because I am only 20 so this is just something to start me off for right now so having five cars four cars is perfectly fine with me because it's not something that I want to put a lot of pressure on myself to get all of these cars out of my lot and continue to buy cars if that makes any sense yeah that makes sense um are you planning on having people test drive these cars get them in and out EAS yes I just feel like you've got an awful small space posing okay well um I'd be willing to make okay all right um okay so we have a motion from uh Vice person Cheryl on case 2025 su4 um all it needs is a second do do you want to read the or motion motion to vote or motion to approve yeah was right want a motion take a motion so we could vote that would be a motion to approve right either a yay or a nay exactly yes that's I'm looking got it just want to make sure yes and I I have not read the conditions into the record so uh I'm assuming you would want to move with the conditions okay um all right it still needs a second before we would vote

um yeah I see commissioner Wiis Brock waving his hand are you seconding they I I think they should be read into the record at a minimum and then oh second first okay okay so we have a we have a second got it sorry this is a little different than our normal process okay so I will read the conditions into the record uh first that the special use permit is solely for Patricia omarov to operate a used automotive sales establishment at 524 grabo Road second no outdoor servicing or repair of vehicles will be permitted third the site plan shall be amended to indicate the location number and dimensions of the proposed parking spaces for used automotive sales in the rear lot and for employee and customer parking in the front lot in compliance with the zoning code the proposed spaces cannot block access to the rear lot fourth an occupancy permit will be needed before the space can be occupied fifth before an occupancy permit can be approved the lot will need to be properly striped additional markings indicating the area between the building and the West lot line as a no parking area shall also be provided six entry to the lot is via gravo Road only access via any adjacent lot is not permitted without a cross access e easement agreement I think we can add to this that um the petitioner will provide any cross access easement agreement to the city prior to occupying space seven any minor changes to the site plan required by Fenton Fire Protection District may be administratively approved by the community development director when in compliance with the zoning code and eth compliance with all other applicable

code and ordinance requirements so those are the conditions um and we'll go ahead and do a roll call vote Vice chairperson Cheryl nay commissioner Wiest Brock hey CH person yman nay secretary Abbott mayor morath nay Alderman Herold nay commissioner Vorhees n commissioner Nelson n commissioner biky motion is not approved okay so um um uh so what we just did was we voted on whether or not to move this forward in any capacity and we voted no so what that means is we are not making a recommendation to the board of aldermen that this be approved um Now procedurally remind me Amy and Aaron does it actually still go to the board yes yes it does yeah so we are recommending body which means the board of alderman will meet later this month uh in their own meeting and they will consider this case and they will have a recommendation from us not to approve it um that is also a public meeting and you have every right to show up there and Advocate to the board of aldermen uh but any any um alternative to a denial that you would like but as it stands from this body we've um officially denied the case if I may Mr chairman yes and let me just say that I I very much admire your enthusiasm don't give up and if this isn't the location I'm going to guarantee you there's going to be don't let let yourself get down on this um because I think you'll do a fine job but this lot this may be you know a benefit to you but do not give up I love your your your push and your admiration for

wanting to do this on your own you yep thank you very much good luck okay um we'll move on we'll move on uh to our next item it's uh case 2025 uh spr2 a petition by Tor Woodcock of Woodcock Investments LLC for site plan review of a new restaurant retail building at 1920 BS Avenue the property is owned hp1 Hospitality Park District Amy um yeah this is a site plan review request for a new 4,60 foot retail restaurant building with a drive through facility on the north side of the building and this is for a proposed uh the restaurant is for a proposed Jimmy John's um the lot is accessed via a private driveway easement that also provides access to two additional Lots within the subdivision um and looking at the lot requirements the uh proposed development meets all the setback and buffer requirements as well as the lot requirements for the district um the proposed building will have two two retail spaces and one restaurant with a drive-thru covered by a proposed canopy and the facade materials are architecturally designed metal panels ephas and brick were which are all approved materials for the district um regarding the parking um the proposed uses oops will require 28 spaces and 29 spaces are proposed and the spaces in drive a Dimensions all meet the requirements of the code with the exception of the access the two accessible spaces um the code requires that they be 10 ft um wide so the site plan will just need to be amended to indicate the uh correct uh width um the proposed drive-through facility will be

accessed by this uh private driveway easement um along the south side of the property uh the drive through Lane meets the width requirements and an order board is also proposed on the east side of the building right here um the a separate uh pay and pickup window is provided on the north side of the building Under The Canopy um there are 10 the 10 required parking or queuing spaces excuse me will will be provided including one queuing space located in front of the uh drive-through pickup window and that will uh be to allow um Vehicles exiting the the drive-through Lane to yield to oncoming traffic a second bypass lane is also proposed adjacent to the canopy and that's for um ready to go orders a rapid pickup for ready to go orders placed ahead of time so the petitioners explained that the customer will pull up to the to the order menu provide the order details at the menu board and then by the time the um customer comes around into the bypass lane there will be um an employee uh there ready to hand off the um the order this will expedite the process and reduce the number of stacked cars in the lane and because the vehicles are only stopping long enough to um have the order handed off the petitioner does not anticipate any impact to the flow of traffic or to access to the angle parking um staff did note that access to the angle parking is only provided by this drive-through entrance or the drive-through Lane um again the petitioner uh does not U anticipate any issue um with those angle parking because these spaces would be for employees employee parking and excuse me and would um only be mainly be utilized before and after the drive-thru Lane is open or at non peak time so at the opening and closing of the store or during um shift change so it's not

expected that these spaces would have high turnover and there would be little to no impact um on site circulation thata does suggest that directional signage be added um on site to promote safe uh site circulation though um the parking lot is proposed to be constructed with materials in compliance with the code and the lighting will also meet code requirements Landscaping will be um grass uh trees and shrubs with additional plantings in the bio retention area any plantings in the bio retention area will just need to meet the requirements from MSD and finally um separate sign permits will be needed for the proposed signage that is indicated on the elevation plans and for the menu board and separate building and land disturbance permits will also be required okay thank you questions for Amy I think I have one um I'm looking at the grading plan there you go and you know I'm aware of the fact that you you said in your intro that sort of the appropriate way to access these angled Lots is kind of through the drive-thru um that landscaping area to the right I'm assuming there's some sort of buffer there that like that can't be paved that's correct there is uh they're providing the required 15 foot buffler there right right okay um I think that's the only question I had before we talk to other other questions do we have a petitioner uh you wouldn't mind stating your name and address for the record yes my name is Chris wolf with wonderlick surveying engineering uh 512 East Main

Street you how are you Mr Wolf good how are you doing this well thank you um well you're welcome to make any preliminary comments you'd like or we can just go straight to questions okay um I did have a short PowerPoint that I submitted to Amy so run through that if you don't mind sure um also here with the owner okay one second all right uh yes we're here for a site plan review tonight uh for a proposed uh retail building Jimmy John's restaurant for Woodcock Investments at 192 BS Avenue I'm sure you guys are probably familiar where at um pleas um basically have the bandanas and then title car wash to the south of us this development used a Sonic drive-thru go approximately next slide um it exists in a hp1 Hospitality zoning District well as everything else around um and as you mentioned before the buffer yard requirements that we have shown our site plan um is we have to provide a 15 foot um

buffer yard um on all sides except for on the front we're put a there um and you can kind of see that on this plan as the dark line um we uh initially were looking at different options with this um but we decided to come to plan ifed buffer um except for on our South Line Private Drive is uh Cor Drive riding buffer yard um discussed we're providing the uh parking requirements based on restaurant and um comment that Amy brought up about the um Ada spaces need to be wider that should not be a problem to make that modification um one of the things on this plan is there is quite a bit of green space and one of the reasons for that is because the MSD requirements process MSD um typically a site like this would be considered a Redevelopment but because of Downstream um issues last couple years MSD is requiring us to go to fullblown design this site so it's not considered Redevelopment actually new development uh which increases the size of our basins and it will reduce greatly reduce the amount of runoff Downstream because of the requirements being that's why you kind of look at Basin sizes we actually have two basins south of the building and one Southwest

of the building um and basically those are inorder even as because slide um this is the QB diagram that Amy had talked about um plan for the parking to is or employees um basically uh that's the easiest way for us to control parking there in times um the secondary Lane kind of Amy alluded to of but as you pull up to the menu board U if you've already had your order call in order for pickup um basically you already ordered sandwich is already made ready for you already paid so you would then actually go around to secondary line and there's a door right there by the drive through where they actually just walk it straight out and handy you so the car stacking time that they're going to be in that Northern most Lane is going to be limited okay that process uh this is basically elevation view um you can kind of see drive through top of car is that way allows access to uh in drive to both cars drive is um next

slide question got um I know I went through it pretty quick um but if you guys have well explain yes said that up to um there how do they get sit in get up there to Woodcock um 3545 Highway D Bourbon Missouri 65441 so there is a way they can if they're a mobile Order ahead of time they can go ahead and get into that bypass lane there's a secondary speaker box that's between that drive-thru Lane and the pickup Lane underneath the canopy we can call out to the customer and we say Bill you here for your pickup and we can walk her right out to they don't necessarily have to stay in that nine car stack if they've already pre-ordered a h okay so I I I guess I'm still is there space there between the um people sitting and waiting to get to the window and the eement over here is there space to get up there I guess I'm still not clear on how are they going to get up to those where those l spots you're right if these are stack full right in front of have to wait for the this box okay but

bumper so got these stacked up in que at a couple of there's only two that line up there to get brought out to the car they've pre-ordered correct uh as it's displayed but those are are such a quick accessed customer um I don't expect it to ever back up too far we don't do a whole lot of pickups compared to the drive-through Lane by itself I concern I guess is the employees are parking in diagonal line and and call that got hurt imately how do they get out they start backing up and wait for somebody to slide over like I said those those cars in that secondary Lane is very limited and we have a pickup process similar to this in Washington it's never been a problem there's an R are they're dead I if Chick-fil-A can do it yeah Chick-fil-A is a very similar process this additionally Chipotle has been using these quite a bit as welled now the other question I have the other spots on the side in front of the retail and such those you just go to and you get to those is there any information on who no I ask no I don't have any one yet and there is there is space in the restaurant to come in and sit absolutely um I wish there was a detail showing the interior but we have 26 24 seats inside okay so people would

just pull up into those other spots here yes ma'am go all right thank you uh go ahead mayor where will your employees come out to service the prepays so right okay so yeah see that yellow canopy there's an access door okay so you're asking them is that safe to go through that line of traffic because I I know how I am and you know that that kind of concerns me a little bit typically sure you know Mcdonalds or one of these others they stay even with the building they don't have to Cross Lanes of traffic that I've ever seen you know you know what I'm saying right so we considered putting that access door in front of that car but we didn't like not having that visibility of the windows so the employees can see where the cars are exactly before they even exit the building additionally we have multiple delivery drivers and we have them weaving in and out of cars at all of our sites and in 18 years I've never had a driver hit by so that brings up another Point are you going to have parking for your delivery guys that adequate yes they're in the front of the building um have you have you all had a chance to go and just kind of sit and visibly watch as the car wash is an operation um you know I I go there pretty frequently you know and on either side of bowls coming into that that Stacks that Stacks pretty good it's out on bowls it's out on bowls when you're coming from the north trying to turn into the car wash vice versa from the other direction so that entrance access to the club car wash is right there off bulls yeah so there's no stacking combination for that whatsoever

um but but what I'm saying is they end up stacking on bus Avenue right which is that creates a real problem so fortunately for us we have enough distance there from BS to the drive-thru entrance in the back it would have to be it would have to be a Super Bowl Sunday in St Louis for us to get stacked all the way back to bus from that drive-thru [Music] entrance I think I think what mayor Morra is trying to say is just getting onto that just getting that street right there to get to your drive-thru that's where it gets stacked going that little Hill uh like right there especially I mean I'm sure we've all seen it there's a large truck or out of there um often times they're stopping traffic something that happens um I have a I I know we've already discussed the diagonal spaces on the North I am nervous about you know patrons coming in looking for a parking spot and sort of ready to go around the building thinking that there's going to be spaces and and then they realize they're all angled the wrong way and you know like how do you plan to address that concern of folks just like sort of you know creating congestion because they think they can go around the building and then all of a sudden they're in the middle of the drive-thru and there's nowhere to really go to try and park the car so only 25% of our business is now

in store orders um so the front door business is not what it used to be uh secondly there will be an entrance only sign at the drive-through entrance as well as what they call a Gateway sign that goes over the top of the whole drive-through Lane and marks through Lane and mobile pickup Lane to clearly Mark what the lanes are for um so we're going to try to make it as blatantly obvious as possible that that back entrances for drive-thru access will okay but then like I mean I guess what I'm concerned about is uh image that's up there now you know there's that little like Island sticking off the corner that the northwest corner of the building that has the bushes it's cars kind of coming around that way way thinking that like there's going to be space on that side of the building and then they realize that they're running into your drive through traffic and then it's hard to like swing into one of those parking spots because they're effectively coming the wrong way is there any signage that you're planning sort of in that general area to sort of warn cars of the lack of access sure we can paint signs across the the asphalt you know U One Way only and and marking it as clearly as possible no entrance um in Big Font on the on the asphalt so it's clearly marked okay I mean if there's no cars there I'm sure I could swing a left and get in there but okay um other questions I have one other and you know it's it's it's not our role or especially my role to lay this out for you but is there some problem that you couldn't use the other Ingress and egress off poles and reconfigure that as your entrance and then have your exit down

here it just seems it just seems getting in is going to be the hassle with both the car wash and your business now I understand that and yeah I appreciate that but we've looked at multiple different and one of issu um as you come around here right here access up that's why you're the engineer we drawn this up about 25 different ways you know what this has been a challenging location uh for years and years um you know I I I'm just very much concerned with the you know the entrance into this place and what problems you're going to have and I guarantee it'll we'll hear about it okay um so normally at this stage unless there's other questions uh there are some conditions associated with um this uh potential approval that the city recommended that we read into the record uh and if you could just acknowledge these conditions that would uh that would be ideal um first uh this approval is strictly for a proposed new 4,60 foot retail restaurant Trum building at 1920 BS Avenue as indicated

on plan submitted with the application dated January 31st 2025 um the site plan shall be amended to indicate the required 10- foot width for accessible spaces directional signage shall be required for safe traffic circulation within the site the community development director May administratively approve any any minor changes to the site plan is required by another reviewing entity such as the Fenton Fire Protection District and MSD separate building land disturbance and sign permits will be required through the City of Fenton in St Louis County last compliance with all other applicable City of Fenton codes and ordinances sir could I just add one other thing to the record I do have um Fire Marshall approval on this site plan as it's proposed okay thank you for informing us all right um so with those conditions I'd like to move for approval of case 2025 spr2 a petition by Tory Woodcock of Woodcock Investments LLC for site plan review of a new restaurant retail building at 1920 blls Avenue property is owned hp1 Hospitality Park District uh can I get a second second by commissioner Nelson can we do a roll call vote please CH person yman I commissioner Nelson I Vice chairperson Cheryl I secretary Abbott I mayor Mora May elderman Harold hi commissioner Wiis Brock hi commissioner bores hi commissioner bilie hi motion approved okay thank you as we discussed with the last last petition this is a

recommendation to the board of alderman there'll be a subsequent meeting um obviously the mayor's concerned about the traffic and he sits on the board of alderman too so uh well I don't vote unless there's a tie okay fair enough so um we'll be making a positive recommendation uh and appreciate you guys considering uh our questions and concerns best of luck to you okay uh next is uh case 2025 txt1 a petition by Philip T Perkins for a text amendment to section 42010 land use Matrix of the zoning code to allow a banquet facility as a use Allowed by special use permit in the ot1 Oldtown District Amy sorry I'm just trying to get my screen share again um yeah uh this is a request to amend that land use Matrix to add banquet facility as a use Allowed by special use permit in the ot1 district a banquet facility is defined as an establishment available for lease by private parties to accommodate functions including but not limited to Banquets weddings anniversaries and other similar celebrations or events including accessory facilities there too banquet facilities May serve alcohol and have outdoor dining as an accessory use um currently uh banquet facilities are permitted use in the ot3 the C1 and the hp1 district and if recommended for approval the petitioner is also requesting a special use permit to operative banquet facility at 505 Main Street and that will be considered under the following case 2025 su5 okay thank you uh these text amendments are sometimes tough because it's hard to

look at them in isolation uh without also the subsequent petition uh but I think that's sort of the idea here let's all remember that if we do approve this it will allow it for the entire zoning District uh ot1 as a special use uh which still gives us some level of control but we'd be essentially um you know acknowledging that it's a use that we would permit somewhere in Oldtown District uh provided that you know we felt comfortable with the conditions of a special use permit being met so that's fundamentally I think the question before us here is um do we think this is an appropriate use for the Oldtown District I'll kick off the conversation by saying that I think you know one of the challenges with the Oldtown district is that there's always been a limited amount of parking uh given the way the buildings lay out and um a banquet facility uh you know usually by Design is meant to bring a larger group of people and so there's sort of I suspect the reason it was never put in The Matrix to begin with probably had something to do with the concerns around adequate parking um May morath I don't know if you have any other history is to or thoughts to add you on the spot I don't know if I have any other history maybe Amy you know I don't know if you uncovered anything but I think I think you know what we need to understand is what the differ is what the banin center as opposed to what is allowed right now if you could kind of go through that and briefest I know you kind of tried to allude to it in your initial comments sure um probably the most similar uh use that we would have uh as far as um traffic or or occupancy uh would be

for a restaurant and um a restaurant is a permitted use uh by comparison this would be a special use permit so You' be able to look at each individual location that came before you to determine whether or not that would be appropriate at that location um on an individual basis so this wouldn't be like uh a permitted use like it is an ot3 C1 or hp1 it would would be a site specific request that you would look at and and is a restaurant a special use or is it just it is not it's permitted okay and the other thing I think the difference here is and if if I read this correctly hand out they're not going to prepare food that's correct we'll cover that in the next request but they I know we sometimes sometimes I think you gotta hear that to make these decisions and you know for full disclosure I do know the petitioner and his son works for the City of Fenton but I can tell you that that doesn't uh I have no bar that doesn't have any bearing on my decision um I think that uh in the past it's been used for lack of a better word a Banquet Center with the sisters tea house um I think it's a great use of the property great use of the building um I I mean we could ask the petitioners at some point in time um I don't think they're going to overload it because the occupancy permit of the building um just trying to be logical about it uh so okay uh other questions or items we want to ask Amy we I assume we have oh I'm sorry commissioner wish Brock is somebody living in that property no I don't believe there's

anybody living there no okay I I don't see giving us ability have a have the special use it would still come to us for approval or at least a recommendation to for approval I don't see any harm in that that's my perspective also you know adding little extra life the old town I feel like that's a thumbs up something good too um that's just my opinion when I I see this uh I I agree with you like that does open us up but at least we're you still have some yeah I mean my my feel on it is you just should not say yes if you think there's no place in the district that you would be okay with um but I don't think I'm not suggesting that that's the case here saying that would be my mind the logic any other thoughts question have access to for OT one district one I mean don't have I did not provide that in in my PowerPoint but okay um should we ask the petitioner to come up or not for this one probably not I think we can consider this absent the petitioner specific questions I don't think so it's a text amendment I think we get the idea here okay so I will move for case uh 2025 txt1 a petition by Philip T Perkins for a text amendment to section 42010 land use Matrix of the zoning code to allow a banquet facility as a use Allowed by special use permit in the ot1 Oldtown District uh I move for approval

do I get a second second from secretary Abbott uh let's go ahead and do a roll call vote chairperson yman I secretary Abbott hi Vice chairperson Cheryl hi mayor Morra hi Alderman Herold hi commissioner Westbrook hi commissioner Vorhees hi commissioner Nelson I commissioner biky I motion approved okay so with that we can move on to case 2025 su5 uh petition by Philip T Perkins for a special use permit to operate a banquet facility at 505 Main Street the property is owned ot1 Oldtown District uh Amy would you like to give a summary sure in conjunction with the previous text Amendment the petitioner um is proposing to operate a uh banquet facility at 505 Main Street he purchased this property um which is commonly known as the Navajo hotel from the city in 2020 this the property was formerly operated as a restaurant in a gift shop called the sisters tea house and uh in conjunction with with serving food they also did host uh um Gatherings and and private functions there as well uh the petitioner has been rehabbing the property since it's purchased in 2020 and would uh like to provide event space for private parties and celebration operations the proposed facility will not include a kitchen but will offer a space for Food Service uh to be provided by outside restaurants and Caterers banquet facilities can also serve alcohol so if alcohol service is proposed any necessary liquor license including cater Caterers licenses will need to be obtained through the state and through the city um the lot uh has 25 parking spaces and uh code requires for a banquet facility uh one space for every three people based on the maximum occupancy load So based on the 25 spaces this site could accommodate um up to 75

people it is noted that the parking lot for the adjacent Museum here is accessed by this this shared um entrance here there are 10 additional spaces in the back if the uh proposed banquet facility would need to utilize these um extra 10 spaces for overflow parking we would just need to have uh evidence of shared parking agreement between um the subject lot and the museum lot but uh that those extra 10 spaces if they are needed would be able to accommodate an additional 30 people okay other questions for Amy we have a petitioner who would like to come up and speak Perkins 599 Hawkins welcome how are you um well I will say this is a very cool building I've lived in Fenton since 2013 and I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't recognize it until I looked it up on online because I always just drive straight through uh you know on my way to uh the old grab boy area so um so this is is this is neat what you're trying to do and I commend you for uh you know taking on a building like this um thank you I think my my question to start off uh obviously Amy mentioned the kind of the um limitations on the number of people you can handle based on the parking um do you have any uh you what is the like building occupancy permit um aside from parking you know how many people are you allowed to have how many people are you expecting to have at the sort of events you're going to host I think it's on the

record 100 people we're figuring maybe 50 okay okay um well I think really the in my mind the biggest concern would just be you know having an event that's large enough that you would kind of exceed the parking available we obviously wouldn't want parking sort of flowing out onto the street uh so um and I don't think think that'd be permitted right Amy uh no there is no parking on no street parking on Main Street okay do you feel confident that the events you can host will sort of adhere to the right number of people yes okay um other questions for the petitioner not not really a question just a comment I think everybody knows how I feel about text amendments um I'm pretty adamant against them but in this case um whether it's Mr Perkins or anybody that owns this facility I think as you mentioned it'll give a boost to that Oldtown area I think it's what's needed it's what we attempted to do in the umen years that we had it and we were not very successful you know we had the sister's Tea House who uh who um you know had a function there for a while but I don't think it ever really got itself off the ground I think with um with Mr Perkins he'll he'll see that that happens how are are you trying to make this in every weekend uh you know is this is this going to be a full-fledged thing what what are your thoughts you can pull that up if you want you know I don't know I'm actually going to go out to my farm my wife take care of it come on up but uh I'm not sure we're going to keep it down to a minimum we're 5 years

older than we were when we bought it yep well pull that down so we can Perkins wife of Phil 37 years congratulations something to do I stayed home and raised our are you going to cater to beddings to whatever thinking more baby shower stuff like that wedding showers baby showers right and it said something about outdoor uh out set up I've been a few baby here yeah excellent thank you okay well I think um we do have a few conditions as you uh heard us on the other petitions if you wouldn't mind just acknowledging these as we go through that them uh this special use permit is solely for Philip T Perkins to operate a banquet facility at 505 Main Street as indicated on plans dated January 31st 2025 you're you're also allowed to operate minimally an occupancy permit will be required before the space is occupied uh should a liquor license be needed the applicant shall obtain all

necessary state and city approvals have to license um I'm not We're Not Gonna that you'd have to contact the city clerk about because I don't really know the rules but I do know that if there are catering there are Caterers licenses that would be needed if your Caterers are serving alcohol we I've got quite a few bring in the liqu that again you'd have to check with the city CL I I I don't know um I don't know what the rules would be just bringing in your own versus selling it or providing it so she would be the she would be the expert to ask on that it depends on what exact yeah um evidence of a shared parking agreement will be needed for the use of any off street parking area within 300 feet of the subject lot for overflow parking and compliance with all other applicable code and ordinance requirements you have to agree to that one oh agree I'm sorry okay I've never done this before I'm nervous you are fine um so with those conditions uh i' would like to move for approval of case 2025 su5 a petition by Philip T Perkins for a special use permit to operate a banquet facility at 505 Main Street the property is owned T1 Oldtown District uh can I get a second okay we have a second uh can we do a roll call vote please chairperson yman I commissioner Vorhees hi Vice chairperson Cheryl hi secretary abbit I mayor Morra hi Alderman Harold hi commissioner Wiis

Brock hi commissioner Glover oh he is not here sorry uh commissioner Nelson I commissioner B motion approved yeah all right congratulations and Tin why is your name on that petition why isn't it why isn't it his is oh because I'm not speaker I well you did fine did great said I stayed home for 37 years I'm G better at this we are excited to see events there soon yes we are too thank you okay so that concludes all of our new business uh on to announcements uh first is our report from the Community Development Department um we did not receive any new petitions for the April meeting um I do know that we continued case uh txt2 24 txt2 um we are what what I'm waiting on is we have some uh some things in the works with uh maybe a possible voluntary buyout for some flood prome properties in ot5 which would affect um uh rezoning that was related to um the comprehensive plan so I'm kind of putting that on hold until that kind of works itself out so um it's not likely that that will be ready in April either so um maybe no April meeting maybe no April meeting if yeah well we will uh unless we just want to sit and look at each other and continue a case again that meeting is April 1 kidding with us yeah right okay um um anything else no that's it okay next is a report from the chairperson um I really don't have anything for this month I appreciate everyone's uh contributions to today had some interesting items to discuss so uh

always appreciate the engagement uh next is our report from the mayor um I don't know if anybody there was a some kind of mixup with the f post office and our mailing individuals so I don't know if everybody got their newsletter um but I do mention um straight up that uh uh it was kind of a somber moment but uh one of our employees Billy P passed away at our public works department um our condolences go out to his family I I don't think I mentioned that last no that it wasn't so our condolences go out to to Billy Po and his family um but we also had one of our uh former Alderman's wife pass away and and went to her uh funeral today it is uh Deb Abbott's uh brother's wife and the only reason that I met mention um uh Joyce is because you know in these positions that we volunteer we're elected to um it takes us away from the family and you know so those folks like Joyce I know she was behind Tim every step of the way um but you know it's it it takes away so I just want to mention her and and U everybody who that knew Joyce just loved her so Deb our condolences uh I know I mentioned that to the family but then again thank you for your support and what you do for this St thank you mayor uh next is our report from the Planning and Zoning liaison um the only thing I have is Miss Wick of wicked fines that passed through Board of all was approve that's

all still one of my favorite business he was pretty exciting he clapped also excellent uh last our report from any other Commissioners uh anyone else okay so our next Planning and Zoning meeting if we have it is Tuesday April 1st uh 2025 at 700m at City Hall uh with that I will move that we adjourn uh tonight's meeting can I get a second a second from commissioner Nelson all in favor any opposed meeting's adjourned [Music]