Town Commission - Regular Meeting

We will call the meeting to order. Uh, Mrs. Brown, if you will call the role. Mayor Allison Dennington here. Vice Mayor Terry Cronin here. Commissioner Anna Butler here. Commissioner Tim Reid here. Commissioner Sher Corey here. Town Manager A Marie Smith here. Town attorney Ryan Knight here. Public Works Director Tom Davis here. Town Clerk Amber Brown is also present. Okay, we'll stand and say the pledge of allegiance to the flag of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God, indivisibley andice for all.

Okay, good evening everyone. It is March 18th and we are here for our regular meeting. Um I will uh we will have a moment of silence uh and then I'll read the civility pledge. Amen. Okay. Um, I will read the civility pledge. The commission and the staff of the town of Melbourne Beach pledge to conduct all public discourse in a civil manner. The mayor and all members of the commission will treat one another with courtesy and respect and ask the public to do the same towards the commission, towards each other, and towards staff. We will be respectful of one another

even when we disagree. We will direct all comments toward the issues and we will avoid personal attacks. Um, looks like we don't have a lot of people here. I thought might we might, but if we do, I do just want to say um, we have public comment in the general public comment section where you have three minutes. You can speak about anything you want and then each of the agenda items. You can speak for your three minutes for then. Uh but please don't speak from the audience. Um you know, please don't laugh, make comments because what it does is it disrupts whoever is speaking when they're speaking and it, you know, it's rude. So you can get up when you when it's your turn, but don't um interrupt other people. If it does happen, I'll give a general audience sort of warning. After that, if it happens, I will point out some if people are talking, I will point them out by name if I know their name or otherwise. After that, on the third one, I will ask an officer to escort whoever it is out if if we're disruptive. Um, so use your time, your three minutes to speak. Welcome everyone to come up and speak. You can say whatever you want during that three minutes, okay? But let other people speak without interruption. Um, so those are the ground rules. Um uh we will now we're on item four which is additions, deletions, and changes. There are a couple items up here which look like they're walk-on. And my practice has always been to just to say what the these are, who provided them, kind of count the pages. So, um I looks like I have one document that is stapled double-sided and three looks like it is uh nine pages total. So, I've got three documents up here. The first one is nine pages total. The engagement survey 2025 people element. The second document I have up here is two pages front and back. uh it looks like a PowerPoint, so it's got a bunch of different um it doesn't have a title. And then the third

document is just one page front and it's a townboard application. So we know what that one is, but as to the other two are the the do these relate to a specific item in the agenda? Is this a walk-on agenda item? Um the PowerPoint relates to my manager's report. Okay. and it was uh in response to a request on what the budget cycle would look like and it's just a high level okay how that looks

um oh I also just want to say I'm still not in my mayor email so if I've gotten any emails I wasn't able this week I I spent a couple hours I haven't been able to reset after I got the Bit Locker key back from the computer experts um I wasn't able to reset my my computer so I haven't logged in because I don't want to use any of my other devices so if any emails have gone around if anything to the commissioners you'll need to tell me because I don't know about any of them. Okay, we can talk about that afterwards. Um, so and then the people element item that is part of uh B of new business. Okay, so was this provided by a commissioner? Okay. Um, it's in it's in addition to the rest of that miss.

Well, and what is the rule on walk-on items additions? So, it's not a new agenda item. It is supporting documentation for a current item on the agenda. I got it. And Okay. And you just didn't have this before by the deadline or correct. Okay. All right. Um Okay. So, I had I had most of it and I added That's Yeah, that's fine. I'm I feel like I'm Yeah. Um Okay. So, those are three walk-ins and you'll be able to update the um packet online with these items at some point or already have perhaps. Yes. Okay. And the public works director would like to pull new business item C. Okay. The replacement of the community center doors.

Oh, okay. We're pulling that. Okay. Um, new business item C is being pulled. Okay. A I know that you did a ton of work on that, Mr. Davis, but um, okay. Pulled by Davis. Okay. So, then are there any other additions, deletions that we know of? No. Um, okay. So, at this point then I would need Um, may I make a a suggestion? Yes. Does anyone want to move anything around? Um, should we add the volunteer application to the consent agenda? Yes, I think so. That would be a great suggestion. Um, you need a motion. Yes, I would need a motion.

A motion to add the volunteer application um for the parks board to the consent agenda as F. Okay. A second. Okay. We have a motion and a second. I don't know. Do we take a public comment on that? I don't know that we do. Any public comment on that? Seeing none, we'll close public comment on that. Um, all in favor say I. I. I. I.

All opposed. Okay, that carries five votes. So, one of the walk-on items is it's just a one-page one-sided town board volunteer application for Lisa Kosagi um for which board does it uh for parks board. And that will become uh 10F. So, a new 10F on the consent agenda. Okay. Okay. So now um and remember when we get to the consent agenda items, people can pull them if they want. So when we approve the agenda, it doesn't mean that all the consent. So but at this point if there's if does anyone have any other would any commissioners like to move anything around or if not then I would need um a motion to approve the cons the uh agenda that's published.

Make a motion to approve the agenda. Okay. Is there a second? Second. Okay. All in favor say I. I. I. I. All opposed. Okay. That carries. 5. Um, okay. Now we are on 5A. Uh, proclamations, awards, announcements, and the, uh, town clerk, Mrs. Brown, on page four of, um, has announcements regarding upcoming events. So, I turn it over to you. Yes. So, the list is in the packet. Um the only change is that of course we were going to have the springfest this past weekend because of whether it was cancelled. Um they just met this evening to discuss rescheduling it. I don't know if they have a set date picked.

Okay. We do. Um it's going to be Saturday, April the 18th. Same time as before. Okay. Same time. And that that was approved. And that's Yes, they did. They Yeah, they had a quorum and they did approve it. Okay. Uh do we need to approve that or is there any objection? Okay. All right. So, Springfest, yay. That's such a great event. Will now be April Saturday, April 18th next month, uh which start at the same time. Okay. Um any other announcements, Miss Brown? No.

Um I do want to say I like the um I like the the format of these announcements that you have in there. It looks nice. Thank you. Um, looks like we've got the egg hunt. Um, and the NASA photography. I thought that was quite that's a new thing. That's interesting. So, the history center board occasionally has speakers come in and do presentations. This is the next one they have scheduled. Okay. So, just for everyone who's interested, the history center um and will that be

will that be the one down on Yes. Okay. So that the the old town hall um it's open on Saturdays. It's a really great it's got history of of Melbourne Beach, Melbourne Beach, but it also has Bard History, Florida history. They're open on Saturdays. It is an amazing amazing little place. If if y'all have never been, y'all should go. But um looks like they're going to have a speaker. Helen Milbert uh brings a unique perspective that bridges storytelling in the Space Coast beginning. So it's early NASA photography. So if anyone's a history buff, interested in NASA, head down there. It's a great little building. the history of that building is pretty cool. So, um then April 4th we've got the Extravaganza Easter egg hunt and the 11th is nature day and then the 18th will be kids fair. So, all right. Uh then it looks like the other events are are regular events that you've got.

Yes, those are the either weekly or on a routine. Okay. Um All right. So, now we are down to presentations by special guest. I don't believe we have any or do we? No. Okay. So, we will move on to public comment. So, um now is your opportunity to come and speak. Public comment on anything that's not on the agenda. Um yeah, come on up. Um, also this Saturday,

also this Saturday, um, Bill Fisk, president of the Space Coast Ottabon Society, will be presenting in the Melbourne Beach Library, uh, 10 to 12 about our local birds and migratory birds and a very unique um, population of birds that we have here that we need to preserve through preserving habitat. And thank you, Commissioner Corey, for fighting for those oaks on Riverside, at least trying. Um, but I also want to, um, continue my request that I have a long history of coming to the board with, and Commissioner Corey, you remember that as well back in 2018, Mazny Room going over the plans. We were supposed to be on the list of uh, storm water report areas. Um, we are at the river's edge of basin 8, kind of the drain of basin 8, and gravitationally it goes a foot upwards from the 13 ft at the ocean to the river. Um, it's it pulls there and cannot go to can we don't have access to the river, which as a property owner, we have the right to the nearest um waterway. So, it floods there. The former mayor even said it was designed to flood. Uh, Commissioner Corey, you had asked why does the pipes why do the pipes go across the street two different times at 90 degrees angles that last half block and then go into smaller pipes uphill? You you did ask. You never got an answer and neither did we. I got a petition. I ran for commission on that issue. Um, I've done everything I can, including we've done everything to fortify our property. But now, and I think I start to case her on it, but then my new neighbor across the street after the former neighbor widowed with two girls,

the new neighbor moved in, single mom and her new furniture that she had moved in with that hadn't quite made it out of the garage that it all got flooded with this recent just water event. Not a hurricane, not a big storm, just a rain event. Um, we need help and I know the other areas you're working on a lot. I know you're doing a lot and thank you so much for your This is a very hardworking commissioner commission and mayor especially. You have fought against the I don't know what is going on. It's very divisive. Um, I feel disenfranchised. Anna, I supported you and I feel like you turned your back on half the town. So, I need everyone to pull together. We're all towns people and and and I' I've asked for help and I'm I'm just I've got a paper trail. So, thank you.

Um I'm going to take that as a question and just for one minute because we're allowed to do that under the rules. But what I recall, you know, when we got when we when we found out we BSE we didn't have a contract and we fixed that. We now have three engineers. Um you know, we were going to do this global thing. We had one project. But I thought that there was something that one of the when the interim manager was here that they were going to take some somebody was going to take a look just at that either using BC. I don't know what happened with that because she's not here. But um what's that? There's a 2019 report. Okay. I have it. Yeah,

I have the design. But since 2019, I had thought that the interim manager had because uh you know was going to just have them kind of get some information, take a look at at it. Um now I don't know what that's happened. So I guess what I would just like to ask is if you possibly maybe could get with the clerk and look to see when the interim manager was here if that basin was discussed because I thought she was when one of the times the engineer was out going to have them just look at something and get some information. So, I don't know what happened to I could be wrong, but um anyway. Yeah. And the former town manager also said we would be next and we weren't. So,

um but uh perhaps you could get with the new manager kind of fill her in. Um you know, because she's permanent. Um and then maybe if she does a little research, she can find out if there has been a second look and we can start working on Okay. on it again.

U Mr. Davis and I have uh uh taken a look because I did get your email and I told you I would uh do a little bit I need to do a little research before I could respond to you. So we found the 2019 plan. I was not aware of any other requests from the interim town manager. So, I will go back and take a look at that and also meet with you, Miss Wilburn, on um you know what you would like seen done and maybe you know take a look at your properties. I got the plans and everything from Exactly. Wonderful. Exactly. But we have been researching and I am sorry. I know it's been forever and I'm you know sorry. Thank goodness. I haven't been I love the drought. I haven't been effective at being able to you know I I can only fight so many battles but I

Yeah, but she is good and on top of things. So, I do think that hopefully she'll look into it and we can get it started again and look. So, thank you. Okay. Any other public comment? Okay. Oh, yeah. Come on up.

Uh, my name is David Drake. I've been here a couple of times to visit. Um, thank you, Miss Smith, and thank you, Mr. Davies, for helping me with the light that I'm trying to get removed from Alden Place. Um, first time I was here, I submitted a uh request from signed by all the owners who abuted the property to get the light removed. And as I left with the impression that the town council said, "Sure, let's get the light removed." Now, we have to figure out how to do it. All right, Mr. Reid, if you didn't give me that information, then all the owners are ready and it's time to ask for the council to do something and move forward that way. Mr. Mr. Davies and Miss Smith have been actually helping me. Um, I haven't been able to talk to Mr. Knight. The town of Satellite Beach has a process for what they call uh a vacation of easement and so I just copied their system. Um, they took out the town of Satellite Beach title and then as a means of proposing a mechanism for the town of Melbourne Beach to adopt a system just kind of mirror that. So I took the uh three pages that are requested for any land that is impacted by the uh variance. They need a vacation at easement letter to go to the municipal to go to the utility that is causing the variance that has the variance. So I filled those out. I had them signed by the owners of the land that it impacts and we could if we like send that to FPL. I have a contact at FPL who's waiting to receive them and a response to the email that was sent today um saying that the town is willing to get rid of the easement. Would like to get rid of the easement. So, if we can do that, that would be great on another that would keep us moving forward. Um it's still going to be a long probably

90 to 140 day process. The other process is getting a system set up for the town to make vacation of easements and other things um easier or at least give it a set plan. And again, like I said, I copied Satellite Beaches. I have that information and I volunteer to help um not to put anything else on your plate because I know you guys are busy. happy to do whatever I can to help that effort get put forward so that we could adopt a policy have a checklist at the building and grounds or the building department so that when someone comes in for an easement they can know what to do. um the things that are required by satellite beach besides the 500 ft radius notification which has to be done by the town um our certified plot plan which I have here letters from all the people who are impacted by the variance that's going to be taken away or the easement that's going to be taken away and um these letters of intent from for vacation of the of the easement. So we have everything that's ready according to

um your time is up but would anyone because I do think that this is an important issue. I mean like we we do need to have a process. Would anyone like to make a motion to give him a few more minute few like 30 more seconds since he is bringing so moved. Okay. So uh or or I should just say is there any objection to giving him 30 more seconds? One minute. One minute. Okay. Continue for one minute. Yep. All you have to do is say yes, I could use your help and I'll be glad to help any way I can. And other than that, what I'd like to walk out of here with is permission for the town manager to send a letter to FPL or to send an email to FPL saying, "Yes, we want to move forward with this vacation of easement."

Um, yeah. So, what I think that I think ultimately the town has to approve a process, but I think if you're willing to do the leg work and it does seem like you already have, and I have looked into this and talked to the town attorney, um, other cities do have this vacation easement process, it's good to have a process because I think if you don't have a process, citizens can do it anyway. there's like a sort of state statute where you know but so if we're going to do it we ought to have here's what you have to do pay a fee you know pays for sort of whatever we have to do and it's a standard process across the board. I love the idea that you've done the research and could give that to us because we could put that on the agenda item next month agenda next month and say, "Okay, we're going to create a process. We may alter it in some way, but at least you've already done a bunch of the leg work." Then we have But in the meantime, I think that since we don't have a process, you've been working on this for months, you you could request that the commission approve it right now. I will defer to Mr. Knight. I think ultimately the the the commission does need to vote on vacating it. I do think since we don't have a process right now and you've pretty much done everything, we could potentially approve that.

I don't know. So, there's a process that we'll have to go through as far as notice and a hearing at the end that will culminate into a resolution um that you all approve vacating the easement. However, in the meantime, I think the most important thing at this point is to get uh FPNL, I believe it is, to sign that vacation because that will be part of the petition, right, that you'll submit to the to the commission. So, in the meantime, my recommendation would be to get with FPNL. You you don't need the commission's approval prior to doing that. They should be able to sign off on that um as part of your packet.

Well, I But so, here's what I'm I'm concerned about, though. If FPL services one light and the town hasn't vacated that light yet, I I would think FPL is going to say, "Well, you need to get the town to vacate it first." Um and like unless the town wrote a letter say tentatively saying we do have to go through a process there going to be a hearing but the commission has already voted like that they are okay with tentatively so that FPL could agree if we agreed. That's kind of what this does. Yeah. So I don't I don't think it's correct necessarily to tell him before we take any action that he's got to go to FPL. FPL is just going to say well we're not going to vacate it because we still have to service a light. FPL has a lease with you guys and you're paying for the light. Yeah.

So, in order to get the lease adjusted, you have to say you don't want the light anymore. I think we vacate the light if we're going to do it. And then FPL says, "Okay, we literally now have no longer have any any one where we're servicing." Then they would vacate it. Well, I'm I'm we're like way out of process here. Um we're working an item here in public comment, which I think is okay. Improper. Um, if we want to work this, then let's put it on the agenda and and work on it. Yeah.

Um, I guess I'm I I will say I'm opposed to the idea of removing the light. I don't think we need to re remove the uh the easement. I I think you could if you were to underground the power, you would solve the problem of the cosmetic part of it that you're you're unhappy with. Are we talking able to retain? I'm talking. Okay. Yeah. But are but you just said this was improper, but now we are going to talk about it. Is that I mean I guess I'm could I'm just you you've been talking for 20 minutes about it. So I'm just putting in this and trying to wrap it up and and put it away.

Could you propose it next month and request a just put it on the agenda? Um request a hearing request a public hearing to vacate the easement. That way it will Can I request that now? Uh yes, I guess you could, Mr. Knight. There's a statutory process that we have to follow where we have to provide notice to the property owners through a mailing, a posting on the property. So yeah, but how does a citizen initiate to to have the town do that? So without any procedures, we looked and did some information regarding how Bvard County does it and also how Satellite Beach does it. So he is correct. He does have the forms needed for that, but there is a statutory framework for it.

Yeah, but the fact that we don't have a process yet and probably should shouldn't necessarily hold him up. I think this has been four months he's been coming. He can go ahead and Can he request a hearing? We'll still have to follow the statuto. All right. So, that's what I I would say make a formal request to the town manager that you want a hearing. Can I make that request? Mr. Drake, we'll we'll work on this together as we have. Okay. Tom and I will work with you on moving this forward. Okay. I appreciate your help. Thank you very much. Whatever recommendations you have for a process, we'll take those too. That would be helpful. Okay. Appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you. Any other public comment?

Seeing none, we will close public comment. General public comment. Okay. Now we will move to um the town manager's report which is

evening commission. Um I have uh three items that I wanted to uh provide an update on that uh I was asked about at our last meeting, our last regular meeting. Uh and that would be uh responding to the employee survey concerns. Uh a high level overview of the budget process and the joint legislative auditing committee. So I just want to give you an update on all three of those. All right. So with the survey there were three areas and you do have a copy of the survey. It's not with the item but I you know fortuitously you have it in front of you. Um the first uh biggest item was the relationship with the commission but also was um concerns about the salary and then thirdly about the benefits. So, I have picked up where the interim uh town manager left off and I've contacted the uh Florida City and County uh municipal I mean managers association as well as ICMA and um we have spoken to them and set a meeting with Tom Hamer and George Forbes on Friday. this Friday. Uh there were some initial concerns about um their uh participation because they were concerned about um you know latigious actions. But I've explained to them that uh you know I'm going to bifurcate this process. We're going to have a process for the employees and maybe a workshop for the commission. And so they were willing to talk to me about um you know this thought process and idea of what we want to do. Uh in addition, I talked to Tammy Bond who um uh Commissioner Butler had uh referred to me from the Melbourne

Chamber of Commerce. Thank you very much. Uh she's excellent. We we did vet her and I'm hoping to have a conversation with her either tomorrow or Friday as well. So we don't need to have one necessarily one provider for since we're bifurcating the process. So I'll be having those conversations and moving forward. Um ICMA is um low cost or no cost. I have to see what Miss Bond uh with Bond Enterprises will charge. Um but that is moving forward. Uh the second area was the salary and for that we're probably going to have to do more of a uh they call a classification compensation study. Uh we could do a formal one. We could look at some of the ones that were done by uh neighboring towns. I think Indian Harbor Beach has done one, but I would suggest that's something that you take a look at while we look at the budget process. It's not something we can really handle right now, but it will be something we look at during the budget process. Uh the third item was health insurance and to this I wanted to um first thank Mark Lower with the uh tech advisory board. Um he had actually done some research for us about the health insurance policies and we've been going through each of the different items. Um, I did want to bring up to you there was one item that the uh town finance manager and I thought was fruit was going to be fruitful and it has to do with Florida state law that states that municipalities with populations less than 12,500 residents can apply to the state group insurance program. Uh we did have a meeting with the director of the group health insurance and it's very interesting. This has been on the book for more than a decade. Um, for your reference, it's title 10, chapter 110, section 1228.

And if you want, I can pro provide a copy of that afterwards. Um, and it does say that, but what it doesn't say and what it doesn't do is allow the smaller towns to be put into the same pool as the state employees. So, it allows you to have the same benefits, but you have to pay for those out of your own pocket, which is not really helpful. Um, and uh, in fact, Miss Saunders said that since the law was put into place, not a single municipal government has actually applied for this. So they did say that um last year legislation was passed where um some of the colleges and universities have been able to join the plan with uh state government under the same pool. So the law was amended for that group of people. And I don't know if that might be something we want to pursue or if you have um contacts in uh the state legislature who may want to take a look at that. But um you know according to the uh group health insurance for the state they were saying that it really is ineffectual that piece of uh legislation that law is ineffectual. So it may be something worthwhile to take a look at. And I know we're not the only town in that situation, but healthc care costs are rising and um you know they're not they're they never go down. So I just want to let you know first of all I did take a look at all those areas and uh that's where we are but I could use your help with that if uh you know anybody there.

I do know that the the legislature they've had some bills I don't know if they passed but they they are looking actually changing their benefit plan structure because of a big deficit that they have. Um It does make you wonder, well, if they passed this law 10 years and not a single town got in, you know, if they were maybe they if they allowed you to get the same benefits, it actually brings more people into the plan, it could potentially make their plan itself, which has a deficit more. Now, it's not something that they just ended the session. They're going to go into special session that's already planned, but so it's not something they could tackle this year, but it's definitely something to bring to them. Correct. This, you know, um, and maybe they could work on it next year, but thank you for that information. The research is great. It's first time we've even heard that. So,

yeah. So, I mean, if you know, well, we can talk, you know, individually, but if you know anybody who might be interested or if you could bring that to some state legislators, that would be that would be helpful. I do know that somebody contacted me about um their health insurance uh and wanted a meeting and I said, "Well, you'd have to speak to the manager, but um they said that they that they've got better plans and they could be lower." So, I may pass that information on to you. Okay. I I don't know anything about health insurance, so I didn't want to even touch that. Yeah. Yeah. It is very very complicated. Um actually, um I did get an email today from um somebody who I uh was introduced to me through, uh Melbourne City Councilman Marcus Smith. That's it. Yeah. Marcus. Yeah.

Was that okay? Yep. Uhuh. That's his That's Yes. So, I do have that email. Good. Great. Then contact him. Yeah. Because that was okay. before uh anyway. Okay. Okay. Um I don't know if we can get up the PowerPoint presentation if it's working. It's if not I know you have it handed to you and apologies to um audience about this. Our computers are not connecting properly. Um and there's not there isn't a written report in here for you, is there? Okay. Sorry.

No, there is no written report. I just wanted to update you on items. Uh so this is just a highle overview of the the town's uh budget cycle. I had been asked to put it in a format that you could see how it works annually the cycle. Um let's see if we can so I put it in a graphic form so that you can follow along while they're getting that up. So right now we are at the February March segment where the departments are preparing their requests. Uh next month the town manager reviews and prepares for the workshops. In May uh the commission starts making decisions and a draft budget and millage rate is produced in July. Uh if you look at the next page which has a little more specificity or you you guys have the next slide I guess the third slide.

We we've got to have like readers to my magnifiers for this and I apologize I had made this bigger for you all to take a look at. So the second slide is we're saving paper basically the same thing but um and ink.

Yeah. So I what I wanted to say is that a couple of dates are there to highlight and it's August 4th and that's the date that we must provide a proposed millage rate and hearing date and also in September we hold hearings and must adopt the millage rate and the budget. Um and I mentioned those two dates. August if we do not uh provide that then we go to the previous year's uh roll back rate and so that will um steeply limit what we can afford. In September we have to um I I've highlighted that for you because we're going to have hearings and if at all possible please don't leave town. Please be here for those hearings because uh some of the votes depending on how much of an increase you have on the millage rate it may require a majority of uh the members maybe not a simple majority but maybe twothirds majority or all all included. So I wanted to mention away that from you. Uh the takeaway though is that um our budget process is dynamic and it is a team effort. It's going to take um a lot of vigilance and I and the town staff will be guiding this process with input from the commissioners, residents and the other stakeholders. Uh I am really sorry this didn't come together but I hope this diagram will help us as we go through the process and that it is um a little bit more intuitive um because I know some of you this may be your first budget uh session. So

um this is super helpful with the dates. It's nice. Thank you.

Okay. Okay. Great. Uh lastly, third thing uh joint legislative audit committee. So for the last two weeks we had uh we had the joint legislative audit committee here in this building. Um there were three state auditors. They interviewed just about everybody from each of the commissioners to you know our building clerks. Um there were constant requests for information for files and reintering uh staff uh throughout the time. uh while they're not on site, they plan this to be auditing us through the end of the summer and they continue to contact us through uh email for different things and um we like for for instance we have a call tomorrow with the lead auditor. There's just a lot of things that we have to um make sure we understand their requests because sometimes they're a little too general and we don't understand exactly what they're asking for and you know we have limited staff time because everything else going on. So it's easier to try to ask them um what's you know if they want something in in specific um go ahead and click into the uh okay so so for the audience here is our budget process it is something that's going to be published and I think you know we'll put that into our budget book as well so everyone kind of understands that process but this is what I was talking about about the different uh uh months if you can click to the next next one. And then these are some of the dates of the budget process that we need to abide by and the ones that are highlighted are the ones that we really need to stay on top of. Um, thank you very much, uh, Madame Clerk. Um, anyways, I'm going to leave the update on any of our, uh, current

lawsuits to the town attorney, but I just wanted to let you know that, um, the auditing process is going to continue. It is constant. It is taking a lot of time uh from staff. We are pulling records and because not everything is uh electronic. We have to go to the file cabinets. We have to pull those records and we do have to explain um in interviews or calls with the auditors because they are asking us very very detailed questions about everything. It's just not about finances. It's about HR. It's about public records requests. It's about any and everything you can imagine. It's a full audit. So, I wanted to make you aware of that. But we are very much on our way with it.

Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

Um I wanted to before I forget um when I was up in Tallahassee u twice um I did have an opportunity to go um a bunch of committees. Um I also had an opportunity to speak at length with somebody from the EDC which is the they're basically the state sort of auditors. There's two arms. There's one that's revenue like what this you know brings in the other one is expenses. They every year they do um it's the like three-year estimating conference. So they sort of look at where you were. They look at the legislation that you pass and they estimate every year like where are you going to be in three years. there is a a big sort of deficit that um the state is looking at which is part of the reason why if you look in the house the house has passed a ton of um bills regarding property tax but if there's no companion bill in the senate they will die there was no companion bill in the senate um and that they they have um recessed however they are calling a special session it's already been announced that was like yesterday uh there so there's a special session that specific typically going to be on property tax. So that the issue is still alive. I won't say who I did speak to, but I there is some indication potentially that there will potentially be a Senate bill, but it's going to be ma m scaled it would be scaled back. So the information that I got was that there's the potential that the uh there's a number of between 125,000 to 200,000 of exemption off of homestead. Anything more than that will really put under a lot of towns. And so that's sort of the the breakpoint number. So what I all of this stuff can happen really fast. If there is something that passes, you know, in the special sessions, it could go on the ballot. Um so what I would suggest is it's just my suggestion. and you do whatever you want, but if when y'all are running the numbers when this budget cycle, I would say take that 125 to 200

that if you know, we know how many homestead properties there are and then imagine if every single one of those homestead properties got 125, you know, um up to $200,000 exemption. What would that look like in terms of the revenue that we bring in? You also are going to have to take out business taxes are going to go away, which we only make about $17,000 on that. But there's a there are a couple other smaller things, but that's sort of the big one because that will give us an idea of if that passes what our uh revenue is going to be. The the Senate has said whatever they do pass it may be a phased in. So it may be that they pick a 125 but they phase it in or something. Uh Mon'nique Miller's bill was a structured one where over 10 years. So anyway, that those are just the numbers. I think if the Senate does do something, it's going to be somewhere between 125 and 200.

Okay. Okay. All right. Uh, Mr. Knight, town attorney report. Um, so I'm not going to get into anything specific with the litigation other than that it's ongoing um with discovery proceeding. Um, I do not have an update as far as a resolution to the case at this point. If I do get anything regarding a resolution, then I will bring that before y'all. um either in public meeting or at shade hearing, whatever it may be. Um to date, the litigation expenses for the public records case is $9,365. Um the litigation amount in the other case, which is the breach of the settlement agreement case, is uh $4,17. Uh last meeting there was um discussion regarding synthetic turf. Uh there was a notice of change uh from the Department of Environmental Protection that was just uh published yesterday uh changing some of the language on the proposed rule. So that is still in the process of being finalized. Um, so once they finalize that, then we can present a um an ordinance and get that to PNZ uh for review. Um, other than that, I don't have anything else. Does anybody have any questions?

Thank you.

Thank you. Um, I did forget I wanted to mention three bills that just a suggestion for the manager and the town attorney to get together of some things that did pass um and that will likely be signed. So, there is a bill and it it's interest relates to short-term and long-term rentals for houses, residential. So, like a standalone residential house. So, not condo buildings or multif family, but a standalone residential house. Um, and it's not just short-term rentals, it's long-term rentals, too. But there is um they that we're actually getting some local control um and requirements of what we can do. So, I would suggest that the town attorney, the manager, if they wanted to, and the commissioners, but pull that bill and kind of look because it does give us it it particularly for short-term rentals, it it gives us some an additional thing that we can inspect and that you can pull their license, they can be fined. And it because um drowning or for children, drowning has been an issue. And so, that was a bipartisan bill. It was like roundly supported. and um we might want to go ahead it becomes operational you know assuming the governor doesn't um veto it like you know July. So it would be nice if we were ahead of the curve on that and went ahead and folded it into our our statutes. There's also an interesting bill and it has to do with um local registration of vessels because as you know everybody in Florida you see derelch vessels that have been there forever and there there there's a there's an issue with getting rid of the vessels because you have to know where they're registered. So they're trying to figure out a way to speed up getting getting pulling the derelch vessels out. So they're going to allow or require local registration of vessels. So we ought to look into that and um kind of be prepared for that. Um and we might even be able to utilize our marine rescue and our fire to get certified for removing derelch vessels because um

there is also some grant funding for that. Um there is also uh grant funding for they just passed and there's a chunk of money. Um I forget what it was. What was it? It'll come to me. Then there was um there was another bill. I I'll get with the manager, but I just there was a couple ones that were pertinent that that are going to pass or passed um that it would be nice if we went ahead now and were prepped for them so that they became law, you know. Anyway, so if I think of it later, I'll mention it, but that's all. Okay. Anybody else? All right. So, now we will move on to the consent agenda. Um, does I would like I Does anyone have any anything that they want to pull? cuz I was going to just pull the two um I had some questions about the the two uh houses D and D and E. So, I'd like to pull those. But does anybody else have any questions or changes on the minutes or anything else?

No. Nope. Okay. So then we um by consent uh items 10 A, B, C and new item F um are approved. Without objection, uh items D and E will move down to um new business 13E and F unless anyone would like to move those up because I do believe that one of the um one of the applicants is here. I don't know if both applicants are here, but perhaps we could move that up to um a for at least one of the items so that she would not have to wait. Would anyone be opposed to that? No objection.

Um and I believe is that the is that 30 Mrs. Cox, I see you over there. Is that 307 or I'm terrible with 307? Okay. So, um is anyone from 506 poinsetta here? No. Okay. So um without objection we will make uh what was 10D which is 307 we will make that um new business 13A so a new A and everything else will shift down um so A B C D and well C is gone so can you help me with the numbering so 307 will become A but then the poinsetta because I don't see them here that will be we'll take that at the end yeah D okay Uh well actually it would be E cuz 307 will be A. Then what was A will be B. What was B will be C. C is gone. We'll still have D and then we'll have an E. Yes. So we add the E. Okay. So poinsetta will become E and 307 will become A. Okay. So all right. Uh unfinished public hearing special orders. I don't believe we have any which was uh 11. So then unfinished business 12. Is there any unfinished business? There's nothing on the agenda. So anyone?

No. Okay. So then we will be uh able to move straight to Mrs. Cox. Um so uh 13 new item A which is approval of the site plan for 3073rd Avenue. Do you need us to Are we ready to speak?

Yeah. Um uh yeah. No, I um I don't have any any issue with it at all. I just I always for these kind of things, especially I just always feel like there should be a chance of public comment and a record on it. So, um I just had some questions actually for the way um with the zoning official. it when I was reading this information, it seemed like the zoning official because he's the zoning official. He gives zoning interpretations. That's what our charter says. What planner you mean? Uh Cory Cory Ogorman.

It seemed like he is instead of giving an opinion, he's kind of just deferring to Mr. Knights. I'm curious about um and I'm curious about what the what the why did he have a question about whether or I mean the pictures clearly show that it was you know could you explain to us what the issue is for the public I guess what what the issue that the zoning official wasn't sure about and that you gave an opinion on because here's my thing

all in the record um it was a house that had burned um and sustained damage to that so uh the question was whether if it was built in its original footprint, then if would it require additional permitting? Um, and I did provide an answer to Mr. O' Gorman. I believe that is included in his staff report. Um, but other than that, it was standard uh process of he had a question, we went back and forth and okay, we were able to get to the answer.

I guess this is what I would like to make as a suggestion. If you look up, there's other cities where they have so everybody has a zoning official planner. They some cities have a zoning department. They got an in-house person. We contract out for it. But those cities have what's called a zone like zoning interpretation opinions. So basically when the zoning official or the town attorney has an opinion um I mean you basically assisted him in his opinion but now we have an opinion on a particular issue that we follow the lead of other cities where what they do is they there's just a letter and it basically there was a question about a particular issue in a particular z and he formed an opinion. So they they write up a little letter where it says we interpret, you know, and they provide the circumstances and what that code means now and they and they in the other cities they publish that on their website. It's like you just go you type in zoning opinions and you'll come up with a list of zoning position. So if somebody else comes along and has the s same or similar issue as the Cox did, they don't have to go and maybe make public records requests for every time this, you know, this issue came up and then search through however many years. They basically can go up and look at the zoning opinions. And in these other cities and in our code too, once there's been an official zoning opinion like that and you publish it, anybody can challenge it within 30 days. Um, but beyond that, it's, you know, it's public notice and we actually have some protection on it. I feel like it would be, it would streamline a lot of things for people in the future and for us. So, because there is a zoning opinion in these records somewhere, but it's never said that and you would never be able to find it. So, that was my and I'm sorry for bringing it all up, but if there had been if this had happened before and there was a zoning opinion on this and you guys were able to just look and read that, it would have made it a lot easier

perhaps because I I I read through it. It seems like y'all had to wait and go back and forth a bunch. There's a lot of back and forth and yeah, the the different town um the cook was I mean I I just wouldn't I wouldn't encourage more opinions, that's all. Well, but it makes it easier for people going forward that because the thing is if say two years from now, three years, there's a different zoning official and this comes up and they have a totally different opinion. Well, people might not even know that, you know, this was the opinion before um provides more certainty.

My understanding was it was an interpretation by the lawyer, city's lawyer. It was an interpretation of something in the code of the code. and and we had four building officials throughout the process of this house which led to some up and downs and opinions and things but appreciate you guys yeah but getting here this vote

um so that that's just that's my recommendation uh even the town did assist with that so I it is confusing to me whether it's actually a town attorney opinion or not so you know in our town code it says that the the planner the zoning official that they shall and it's they're the only ones that can give a zoning opinion. Basically, you can challenge it in court later. A court could change their mind, but we have administrative rights to be able to give a zoning opinion, but the only person that can do it is the zoning official. He has essentially given a zoning opinion, nobody would ever be able to find it. So, my suggestion is just to turn when from going forward when these things happen to turn them into a one-page letter that we can publish on our website as a zoning opinion

for consistency. So I think the site plan review that he did publish would be his opinion, but you can't find it anywhere because none of these emails like the emails are in this packet, but there's no like other cities they have they they they when these things come up and they get in one case they take a letter and they publish that that we interpreted this provision to mean it's like a one and it's opinion. It's an administrative opinion that's you know. So um okay. So with that said, does anybody else have any questions or is there a motion to approve? So moved.

I don't understand why what your question was and why you pulled it off the consent agenda. I wanted to know what the genesis was of how the zoning opinion came about and and how it was decided and what in the future how do citizens in the future who might have a similar issue find out about that and and to suggest and I and I got information they said that they it was the town attorney that kind of gave the opinion that they went back and forth and so that is why but uh is there is there a so there's a motion on the floor I didn't hear So I moved it. I didn't hear. I so moved when you asked. Okay. So is there a second? Yes.

Okay. We have a uh motion and a second to approve. And then we have discussion. All right. So just Third Avenue. Just a just a a point. Um if you are looking to develop a database based upon all these opinions so that people have access to that's something we should probably put on the agenda and maybe develop it a little further. Yeah, I think I will. Yeah. Um but I just because this is a a good example. it's an an opportunity basically to mention it. So I do I think I probably will put it on the agenda for next month, right? Um but in the con, you know, and I wouldn't say that we would go back and recreate a database. I'm just my idea is going forward when things like this happen. Sure.

And it's a way for me to mention it to y'all and mention it to the town attorney in the context of an actual example. So, but I will put it on the agenda. My only concern since you're bringing it up would be if you're putting it up there for people to comment for up to 30 days. I mean, there's enough things that hinder and slow down the process as it is. It just seems that with all the opinions floating around town, if one person's opinion could hold up a building process by another 30 days, that's a lot when it comes to construction loan carrying costs. I mean, there's I look for us, I can tell you exactly what it cost me each month, I get delayed. So, but it wouldn't because once we approve this, it wouldn't delay you at all. It's just my Yeah,

but allow putting something up just for the purpose you said there's two purposes. One is to help other people through. I see it more as something people who have nothing else to do could rumage around and take umbrance with something and bring it up and then tell you guys and you feel you'd have to do something about it and you just slow down the process over. No, not really. Suppose somebody is six months out and wants to do the exact same thing or do something, you know, and there's an opinion in your case like where they didn't provide the opinion that they would have thought would happen. Um but that's but then they see it they they could potentially then go oh well we want to do that in six months and we think they're wrong I'd rather go ahead now it doesn't affect yours at all but I appreciate

I mean there's a certain case by case right I mean there's so many unique situations out there to say that our situation now is sets the president moving forward so I think you're still going to have to come down to certain things are case by case how this you know how something's interpreted by the zoning board the attorney or whatever else. So yes, um I think sometimes we think we're making solutions, but I just think we just add more to the mix. Thank you. You're correct.

So I would like to say because it's a reminder talking about posting online. Anyone who builds a house or proposes a house and gets a packet for their house gets 10, 12, 15 spam emails in a row. And um it looks very official that the town wants $4,000 more dollars to go before the BOA or the PNZ. And I know they're aware of it and working on a solution, but if whenever our address was posted or our my email was on there, if maybe we can take out that public information. Yeah. Because there's a lot of spam happening to every person that goes through this process. I did not know that.

It looks very legit. Oh my gosh, I'm so happy that you mentioned that. I was not aware of that at all. No, I I get like a million spams, too. So, I almost paid it. The other couple that were here the night we had a PNZ meeting. They had it and they were ready to write a check for $4,000. They just figured because you just get numb to the fees, right? It's like whatever, hold it up, I'll jump through the hoop. And they would, you know, so maybe the posting of information in the packet could be done differently so that people are a little more protected. Yeah. I wonder, Mr. tonight. Could we um could we provide a like a signature with the when they do a development order where they say they that they're they have to communicate by email but they want to be able to have their email private so they don't get spam. Can we and all email is public record. Yeah. So yeah,

unless there's a statutory basis for the redaction. Yeah. The only honestly do is have a sheet, you know, these are the fees you should expect, right? Just sort of laid out these are things you should expect once this is approved. But I just figured we saw it. I was like, "Here we go." You know, but I'm glad you brought But you know what we could do is we could tell people, "Look, we can't redact your email." Yeah, we could redact your email, but you might want to create just a like a just for this because we we can't redact it and you might wind up getting spam and if you do, you get requests for money, call in and double check because I was not aware of this and that's it. It's been posted on our website. Okay. Um,

thank you. I was going to say that we did find out about the issue and we did post it on the website. Yeah. Thank Okay. Um what a beautiful sweet baby. Thank you. Uh okay. Is there any other discussion? Any public comment? Hey, come on up. Mr. Brner, Dan Brunger, uh 6th Avenue in the comments that was uh made about spam. Um, isn't there something maybe uh the local police chief or uh the town council can do to go after these people that are doing the spamming? I've never heard about anybody making that comment.

Yeah. Well, I got some threatening spams to me and I've tried to file police report and nothing's happened for that. So, vote. Yeah. Uh, all in favor say I. I. I. I.

All opposed. Okay. That motion carries 50. Thank you so much. Uh all right. So now we will move down to what was 10. Is it 10 or 12? 10. Let me find my uh Okay. Yeah. New business. Uh it was A but it has now become B which is consideration of an RFP for grant writing administrative services. Commissioner Tim Reid page 137 to 39. Mr. I will turn it over to you to present. Um if you'll present it but then um reserve the discussion for you know when we have our discussion or how long do you need to present?

Which question did you want me to answer first? How long do you need to present? Uh probably a couple minutes.

Okay. All right. Go ahead. So this is a as the title says is it's a proposal about a um an RFP for grant writing. So background information you can read it here what I wrote is you know other than the the fire department the town has no real capability to uh pursue grant offering um without a resource to actually write and do the timely applications um it's kind I think feel like the town has really has no likelihood of securing grant grant funding. So, um, these there are services out there that that you can contract with to do that. Uh, they typically charge a percentage of the award or an hourly fee. Um, and the costs are what you get. Um, you incur the cost regardless of whether the grant is is is one or not. So, I have um some current grant opportunities of interest identified below here. There were some on on the next page down page 138. Um the first one was for the uh find Florida in the navigation district. So that that that that is passed. We we because we had no way of to uh move on it that that went outside out the window. So the next one is uh Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation has one. Um it's unlikely that we'll be able to to meet that either. This last one here from the Department of Environmental Protection um for the Resilient Florida grants. I I think this is one we should seriously be trying to go after and uh I'd hate to see us miss out on this an annual thing. Um but and it's for doing uh planning efforts for storm water and this this is something we we would be able to take advantage of if it and it would help us. Um, also provided here is

the Florida League of Cities has a very good grant um, assistance program where they for counseling and advice and whatever. They've also had a list here which I is provided of um, companies that do the the grant services uh, the writing and the administration services. is the first one, the Ferguson group there. They al also offer um a uh some kind of a discount for Florida League of City member discounts. Um I also found a a local um grant writer here called Cape Canaveral Scientific, which is lo they're located here in in Melbourne Beach. So that would be um another opportunity. So the idea was that uh if we uh we go out for the um an RFP, we can actually find out what the actual costs for getting these kind of services are. We don't have to necessarily act on it to uh and and do go forward. We could we could do that cost collection then we would know and we could look at it for uh next year's funding and maybe if we can work it into the budget for for doing that. Um but the the bottom line kind of is without really getting um a um a resource for doing it um then this it's unlikely that the town is going to be outside the fire department is going to be able to get grants. So I I'm bringing this forward to to make a motion to uh make a motion that we go out the town goes out for RFP for grant writing and administration services. Can I see?

Uh, yes. Go ahead.

Okay. Um, you know, I've talked to Commissioner Reid about this. I agree. We do need um a way to We don't have uh staff to be able to write grants. Um, a lot of these grant writing services, you really need to be able to um target what you're going after. Um I think it's you in my experience it's a waste of time and resources if you just try to do catches catch can. So for instance you know Mr. Reed had some u storm water grants and all that those are focused on areas where we need and I think that's the thing we first need to do is you know I think yes we can go out to RFP and collect information on costs but I think if we are to hire somebody we really do need to focus on what kinds of grants we need. Um I know Mr. Davis and um Dave Micah had worked on the first two grants that uh Mr. Reed had indicated and uh you know it turned out when we looked into you know a little bit further in that there was a lot of data collection and other information that was needed that we just didn't have and there was no way we could meet the deadlines for for that. So, we did investigate that, but that again is very indicative that you really need to be focused and targeted because you can't just last minute say, "Oh, I saw this grant. I'm going to go for it." And it requires a lot of planning um in the background. So, I just want you all to keep that in in mind as well that that's going to be something that the planning of it that you can't necessar you can get some sort of planning but you really still need to have control you as the town on um what you want to go for otherwise those grant costs can really go out of control. So, I just just want to put that cautionary note there. I I would just add one thing is that I I would encourage you to reach

out to the managers of India Atlantic um and to uh Indian Harbor Beach. I in the past I've spoken to them because they don't have grant writers either. Uh you know Indian Atlantic is a little bit bigger and then Indian Harbor Beach is a little bigger but they're still small. Satellite Beach um they've gotten a lot of grants in the like a lot of money and that Courtney was there. She was really good at grant writing. So now she's moved on. But um we had talked before about that group, Satellite Beach, Indian Harbor Beach, Indie Atlantic, and Melbourne Beach forming some sort of like joint like like a where we could go after grants all four together because especially for some federal grants you they they're too big for us to even try to go after. Um what but what they like to do is they like to get continuous jurisdiction. So I do think that we ought to really just focus on storm water. That's our major issue. But we're contiguous with Indie Atlantic. There might be an area where you know if we join together and we're going to do they were going to do a project. We're going to do a it's a bigger project. We could get more money. just reach out to them with um the you know would because even with Indie Atlantic we could say hey we might do an RFP but we're just focused on storm water but you know we could potentially have a joint agreement where we utilize the same grant writer do you see what I'm saying? So I'm on the South Beach Coalition so I meet with them every month

with people from all of exactly who you're talking about. So, I be happy to either connect you or or at our next meeting have a conversation if you want to give me some highlights of what I could ask and discuss because they're they're great. All right, let's do that.

Yeah. And in the past, I've spoken to those commissioners of the mayor of those cities and they said, "Yeah, we would be interested in that." Even with Satellite Beach before, they were they had said, "Yeah, we would be interested in that." Because, you know, if like there's things that Satellite Beach like they had other like they could sort of delegate if we're doing a joint project. just even identifying potential projects in the future that might be possible joint projects if we kind of knew that and had an ongoing dialogue with the managers when something came up we might be able to go for it because we you know if we already had an idea so that would just be what you know I would encourage you to do is reach out to them and maybe look into that. Go ahead.

Thank you. Great job Commissioner Reid. I I just got a couple questions for you. This is really fantastic work. Um, one of the one of the uh, grants that you were looking at, the uh, Florida Department of Environmental Protection, um, seems like the one that would be great for what we're after. What if what if we just reached out and send an email to all these groups that you found and just asked them, "How much would it cost for you to help us with this storm water grant?" Would they tell us or would it would that be going outside the the lines? I I don't know what they would tell you. Yeah.

Um they it's a business, so I they they may give you some information. They would probably want to come and talk to you. Um yeah, I don't think they're you're going to get a an answer over the phone or in an email. No. Okay. Okay. So, that's what I want to know. Also, I've had some residents who are retired grant writers offer their services.

Um and I wonder is that something that we should should look after or look into? if that's if that's a real option, I I would say yeah. So, I mean, if they Yeah, that if that's really truly an option and they willing to do uh do the work. I mean, it's more than just the writing of the the filling out the application or writing the grant, there's there's going to be a considerable amount of some information and and basis that you're going to have to create. So, you're going to have to go and get that information or find who has that information. So there's a big coordination administrative part of it to actually put it together. The writing part of it is kind of the the the smaller piece but but without doing anything you you're not you're not going forward. The idea about you know banding together with other cities I guess that's that's also that's how perhaps that would work. Um but you the nature of these is that you know you're competing with everybody that you're so you're um submitting everybody's submitting in so everybody's competing with each other so a group of us would be basically compete competing with each other so

well not necessarily because Indie Atlantic and Indian Harbor Beach in the past like when I've spoken to them this like last year I mean they said that they don't really go for a lot of grants because they don't have a grant writer and they just don't have the time but what they had said because, you know, um because there are other cities, they join together and they actually go as a group for a grant and and for state and federal grants, you're much more likely to get a grant if it's actually two or more contiguous cities because they like doing larger runs. So, you're right that if we were doing a grant on our own and going for the same Atlantic was, we would be competing on

Yeah. it would still require a body within the town, you know, and spending time and and resources to to do that. And that's the problem. We don't even have we don't have that. We don't have the person that with the time to to to do it. So even even if the idea of banning that, yeah, that all say that all works, you still need there still has to be somebody spending the time um doing it. either if they're willing to do it for free. Hey. Yeah. But um Right.

Yeah. It's a lot. What I would suggest because I have heard that too, Vice Mayor. And I'm just going to throw this out there. It would be something that if you if you wanted to take this on, but um and people have like don't create more boards. But I've thought about this before because I've had several people, oh, we've got these people. I would say, listen, what if we created a a board, but it's literally just like they meet once a year, maybe twice a year, right? like would you be interested in being on that? Because if we we could you can create a board or advisory group or sort of where we say okay look you know we we may not you may not want to do the whole grant but would you even be interested in doing the leg work to just do research like once or twice a year to come up with like a list of grants that might that you know knowing what we have and what we do that that we might be able to go for because that that's part of the work itself is coming up with a list of grants you know small to medium whatever that we potentially could if they're if they're experiencing grants, they can do that kind of search because then we can look for those when they come up. So, that would be what I would suggest. Maybe

I I kind of feel like I did that work. Yeah. For the town this beginning of this year. I was was paying attention and looking at and going through the database that's available to us to see Yeah. what the grants are. So, these I tried to pull out these ones and and highlight them as things that we could potentially get on. And there is still a little bit enough runway to to be able to maybe move on them, but we don't have the resource. And trying to solve the resource issue is the reason for maybe potentially outsourcing it.

I agree. I agree. I think no matter what, if we're going to go for these grants, but my my thought is is that you are very detailed and have done a ton of research, you know, but we may not have somebody every year that's going to do that. But if we do have people that are experienced and we were to say, "Look, would you be willing to be on a board that met twice a year and there was some continuity where they did that every year that it might be something that could take off if we ever did decide to go for these because you also can you can hire a grant writer just contract basis for a specific grant if you have identified something ahead of time. So that's those are just my comments. So perhaps you could reach out to them and and look into that, Vice Mayor. And I've I've thought before too, there's got to be a way that we can utilize this. Well, you know, people volunteer to do things, but it's not always uh

you know, when you put put the responsibility on our souls, maybe it's a bigger job than we think. Yeah. But I I just think that this list that uh Commissioner Reed put together is really good. And and I'm thinking to myself, if these are the experienced people, and they probably have a a method uh to doing this, and they're experienced doing, they also might be able to help us with uh with grants that they've gotten in the past and said, "You know what would be really good? We've been able to do this for you." and they don't have to recreate the wheel. Maybe reaching out to them, we could find that they have some some experience helping municipalities like Melbourne Beach, you know. Um, but uh what's the next step? If I may.

Yes. I believe I believe what you're asking for, Commissioner Reid, is for us to allow the town manager to um do an RFP for grant writing and administration services. So, I think the the step um vice mayor is to make a motion to allow the um manager to do that and uh take it from there and also perhaps um mention it to your uh people that may be interested in doing it at no cost

um to reply to that RFP. So, we have their credentials that we can put in there um so that the manager kind of knows who they are and what they're capable of. I I agree with Commissioner Reid. Um we can come up with these grant lists all day long, but until we have the ability to make the actual applications, um it's just a list. And I I don't know a lot of the grant writers um they may be able to find uh grants that we could use other local contiguous municipalities um to go in with us. But I think that would be the grant writer that would figure that out. I don't think it would be something that we necessarily can have a person come in twice a year and figure out. Um I think we need to look into professional services and um try to go for this free money and I think it's going to end up being that after the professional services that we will even with a match that we will end up having funds that will benefit our residents. So um that's I think the motion I think I made it. So if anybody wants to second it

I'll second. Yep. All right. Is there any other discussion? We have a motion and a second. We will go to public comment. Yes,

Bruce Picket 1501. Um, wholeheartedly agree with Commissioner Reid and uh, Commissioner Cronin. The grant process is just that. It's a process. And if you're not prepared for that process, you're basically going to get nothing. A lot of the grants take a lot a lot of research and time, not necessarily in the writing thereof. If you're a good writer, that's well and good. But you have to have the documentation to prove that what you're asking for is what they'll give you. Some of these grants will take six months to a year prior to to get the information so that that grant can be put in in a manner to where those people will receive it. So, I think that there's a lot of ideas, but I think that a professional entity that does this will give you a better product with the research as well as the writing. And since they're doing it for money, I would imagine that they will say, "And oh, by the way, six months down the road, a year down the road, there's another one coming up that y'all might qualify for." So, I would encourage you all to approve that. Not only that, if you get the money, they help you implement it because there are reporting requirements which staff would have to do or so. Um, any other public comment? Seeing none, we have a motion and a second. All in favor say I.

I. I. I.

All opposed. Okay, that carries 50. Thank you, Commissioner Reid, very much for all of your effort on this. Maybe we can do something about the storm water on second. Get some grant money. Okay. So, the next item, um I need to take Does anyone need to take a break? I need um Can we take a We'll take a five minute break um real quick. Yes. Okay. We're gonna take just a five minute uh break. I just realized that

All right, recess is over. We'll go back on the record if uh Mrs. Browntown clerk will call the role. Mayor Allison Dennington here. Vice Mayor Terry Cronin here. Commissioner Anna Butler here. Commissioner Tim Reid here. Commissioner Sher Corey here. Town Manager A Marie Smith here. Town attorney Ryan Knight here. Public works director Tom Davis here. Town clerk Amber Brown is also present.

Um okay. Uh right before we were at break, Mrs. uh um Smith, you you mentioned something to me that um that Mr. Davis had an item that he had wanted to put on the agenda. He pulled the item that's on the agenda, but there was another item. Um, do you want to do do you want to mention that now? We could um Yeah, it was it was a quick item. Um, I know that you've already passed the order of the agenda, but if you could let him go before I guess what was originally item C. His I mean item B. His is item D on original agenda. Yeah, his original agenda was C, which we pulled, but um D there's another item D.

Oh. Oh. Oh, okay. D. But oh to let him go ahead and present that now so that he could go. Yes. Yes. I think that that would be but that would be good because I think Yeah. Yeah. Because there's no no sense in holding you hostage. We don't know how long the next one will be. Would somebody like to make a motion then for that to to allow um item uh uh well it's original D but then it's it's still D because every the way everything got shifted but it is the consideration of auction alpha signs. To just bump that up real quick so that Mr. Davis could present and um because are are you not staying for the are you not staying for the uh for your report? Are you heading out? I mean I have no Yeah.

I I have no Yeah. Okay. So, we have a request from the manager to allow Mr. Davis. Could somebody make a motion because it is a change to the agenda that we'd have to make real quick? Or if not, we'll just proceed. I'll make a motion to make um item D now item B and B will turn to C. Is that correct? Um yeah, it gets confusing if you move things around, but basically right now we are on I think that's what it is. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Second. Okay. Uh we have a motion, a second. All in favor say I. I. I. I.

All opposed. Okay. That carries 5. I I hope that we did that procedurally correct. It was a to the agenda. And do you have that, Mrs. Brown? Do you have what you need from us? Yes, but I think the letters are mixed up. Yeah. Um, it should be item B or I'm sorry, C and D, would it be? So, original item A became B. Original B became C. Original C got pulled. So, D would have moved up to C, but but D just stayed D. And the reason why is pulled the 10 and we pulled those down. So essentially it's C and D are switching. Yes.

Not B. Well, C got pulled. I just original item D, whatever it is, is going to now become C. Um, substitute item C, which was original B. Yeah. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. That's what you're saying. The amended C, not the original C. Correct. Amended. becomes D and original D becomes C. Got it. Yes. Okay. All right. Uh please present. I mean Yeah.

Okay. Um you have the brief overview and I think you get the gest of my desire is uh a sell some of the signs and not continue to. My old theory had always been I collected old signs that were still legible but not desirable for a major event, a storm, and then I wouldn't I'd have temporary signs. That was just me. I'm I'm willing for the space and to move forward, sell the ones that we replace that are still legible, not reflective. So that's how we end up with a surplus of 75 signs on hand right now. Uh that that being said, my thinking was uh we would auction those. Uh the funds would then go to assist us if we choose to go forward with the great protections on our storm water outlets to uh while it's not mandatory. It's not a mandate. It would be nice to do and we are the manity capital of the world right now. national news says with Melbby

and the interesting thing is the challenge coins that that hopefully will be available too. So it'll be a real cool event. I think we'll get some good money out of it and I it will all fund. Uh the only caveat to that is if there's a surplus, I would go to the manager probably and ask for maybe a,200 to have a small boat so we can continue to check those ourselves from the water. I knew you were going to it's it's not like Gavin's, believe me. But John, right? That's all. Well, that's we'll get one of these. just enough one of these deer like

just enough to work under the pier for uh trout and red fish. But yeah, uh yeah, so that that's what I want to do. Uh it it it is very laborious. The mayor worked it and tried to it's it has to be carefully organized and orchestrated. What I would like is to see each of you give me an hour and I'll stay for the eight hours if need be. I would be the the common ground or if you would like to designate another person to be the records and the gatekeeper. I don't want any discrepancies on signs. Yeah.

I don't want the signs. I want to sell the signs. Uh so that that's what I'm asking for. If you want, even if you don't volunteer, if you approve it, the manager and I have spoken and I I've said I'll commit to make certain that we get 9 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. And uh we'll do that.

I um I thank you. I um 75. That's great. So people that know, we did this for the first time last year. It was sort of my little idea. It was actually a huge hit. We made $2500. Um and there were a lot of signs that people were asking for. I think that it's a great idea to do it every year. a lot of other cities either auction them off or sell them. Um, so it's a nice way for us to make money. Um, and I think, you know, it was a learning experience last year. Um, like fig had figured out it it went great, but I'm so happy. And I actually think that the idea about like putting the money towards the manity is brilliant. I want to thank you for that because, you know, that made big news and I think that will even encourage people to come and bid on the signs more and because I know that it's going to, you know, I feel like it'd be we can even promote it a little bit more. we um manager and I have spoken about

I'll I'll get with you to kind of tell because you learned a lot I learned a lot of things but like how I did it last year how because especially at the end like people start hovering over because we're trying to outbid each other but um I'd be definitely be willing to sit for an hour um I've also thought it would be I think we should get a dunk tank where each commissioner sits in the dunk tank for an hour and people pay we could do it together anyway but totally different at at Founders Day. I bet you guys can make a lot of money off people wanting to dunk me. But anyway, it's neither here nor but I appreciate this and I think it's a great idea and thank you so much for this. I and I'll give you all my tips on what I learned. So

So you're on the record committed to an hour. Anybody that bully? Yeah, I will definitely commit an hour. I also do have like some extra tables that three tables that you can do because it'll be helpful if you do a four table and some tents. So there I I just also want to mention that I I know uh police chief Xander is not here, but um he is going to get mented for us uh challenge coins from the police and they're going to be Melbby challenge coins. So it'll have uh it will have Melb the manatee. Yeah. On one side and then I think his uh his symbol of the police department says protecting paradise with a sea turtle on that side. And a sea turtle on that. It'll be really

I thought they knew. I'm sorry Marie. I thought they already had been mentioned. All right. Um All right. So, motion to approve. Yeah. Okay. Is there a second? Second. Okay. We have a motion, second. Any public comment? Seeing none. All any discussion? None. All in favor say I. I. I. All opposed. Motion carries. 50. Do you think that you could um get like Tom to have maybe a little list where we can put it online and say we're going to be auction them off this year and here's like a list of some of the names and sort of that the money's going to so we could get a little bit of publicity this time around.

Yes, we can do that. We'll let people know it's going to be for the manatee protection and um we can maybe even get a mockup of the the challenge coin too that will go with each sign. So that'll be what's different and you know for the manatees. Okay, great. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Tom. Uh, before he goes, did anybody have any questions about the public works report? I don't I don't think so, but that way you could head on out of here. Yeah. Okay. No questions. All right. Thank you, Mr. Davis. Have a good night. Uh, okay. Now, we will move to um 13. It was original uh B. It is now D. So, 13D. And I will uh turn the floor over to Commissioner Butler. This is your item.

Thank you. Um well first of all I think perhaps you should pass the gavl. Oh yes. Sure. Yes. Um I uh I will pass the g since this is a um I mean it's not a monetary what anyway. I'm fine. How would you suggest that I um that I word the passing of the gavvel? Because it's just a letter to the governor. It's not um but I regardless of whether it is something I have to pass govern or not. want to but how do I word the sort of Mr. tonight cuz normally it's if there you have like a special communic something interest. Yeah. So I mean all you have to say is that you're just going to pass the gavvel because this

Yeah. is about me. Any potential motion could be about you. Okay. And then I won't vote on it. Do I vote on it? No. So you can announce that you know you have a conflict. You will not be voting. Um and then pass the gabble. Okay. So um this item is about me that Mrs. uh uh Commissioner Butler brought and um I will be passing the gavl to the vice mayor who did a great job last time and I appreciate so um uh and I will not be voting on this item so I will recuse. So here you go. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Thank you. And madame mayor, you have to uh notify the town clerk with some form. Oh, it's a 8B. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right, Commissioner Butler.

Thank you. So this is um regarding submission of a letter to the governor of the state of Florida to be reviewed by the commission and voted upon um Florida State statute 112-51 municipal officer suspension removal from office. And just kind of as an intro and a little bit before we really get into the meat of this, I'd like to just say in our last commission meeting, a few of us on the commission expressed that we were feeling disheartened and saddened by being put in a position to vote on whether or not we wanted to continue fighting the lawsuits brought against the town by Funo LLC. Tonight, I find myself with similar feelings regarding this request to approve a letter to the governor to Governor D. Santis asking that he recommend that the Florida Ethics Commission review the conduct of Mayor Dennington and require her to step down from office. Before I read the letter and present it to the commission for a vote, I would like to ask Mayor Dennington to consider stepping down from office voluntarily. If the mayor were to step down on her own valition, I believe it could demonstrate to the town residents, staff, and elected officials that she is able to put the best interest of Melbourne Beach at the forefront and that the much necessary healing could commence. Mayor Dennington, would you please take this opportunity for the town of Melbourne Beach and voluntarily step down from your office of mayor effective immediately? Madame Mayor, do you want to answer?

I will not be answering. I don't know. You don't You don't have to reply if you don't want to. Commissioner uh Butler, go on. Okay. All right. I will proceed then with the letter. Um this is in the packet. Everybody can read. Um there are there are documents referenced throughout the letter that will be included um in the letter going to Governor Dantis if that is what we vote upon. Um, I'm not going to obviously read all of those. They're they are in the packet. Um, and the one thing that was added tonight is just one part that I kind of forgot on the on the survey. So, I apologize for that. Dear Governor Dantis, thank you for taking the time to consider the content. I wonder if

I'm sorry. I realized my phone was not volume down and I realized I was like in case.

Thank you for taking the time to consider the con content of this letter as I take the subject matter very seriously and fully understand the gravity of the request as multiple years have now passed during which time the mayor of Melbourne Beach has consistently demonstrated conduct that may constitute misfeasance, malfeasants, neglect of duty, and incompetence in office. It has become evident that any and all measures that have been taken by the previous commissions as well as the sitting commission have not prompted a change in the contact conduct nor a solution. It is my humble request that you with the authority vested in you as governor of the state of Florida make a recommendation to the Florida Ethics Commission to review the conduct of Mayor Allison Dennington based upon the following facts. one litigation against the municipality both prior to and while serving as mayor in three previous cases filed personally by Alson Dennington against the town of Melbourne Beach. The results were that Dennington agreed to a voluntary dismissal with prejudice. I I then referenced those three documents. There are currently three more lawsuits with Funo LLC as the plaintiff and the town of Melbourne Beach as the defendant. The two managing members are Allison Dennington, mayor, and her husband, Elvin Dennington, Jr., MD. This litigation is not only a financial burden to the town, but it raises significant concerns regarding conflicts of interest, impairment of fiduciary duties, the appearance of self-interested governance, and the potential misuse of municipal resources in defending such actions. Two, Mayor Dennington has within the last two years been formally censured by the town commission in response to her constant and defiant deviance from acceptable standards of conduct conduct and governance. Again, a reference to the center resolutions are included. Being that the mayor of Melbourne Beach's role is titular titular only, this raises concerns about her ability to

effectively administer municipal functions. Number three, interference with the town's safer grant application. The town pursued federal funding through the staffing for adequate fire and emergency response grant program to support critical public safety services. Mayor Dennington in a commission meeting alleged that the town's grant application contained inaccurate or fraudulent information and undertook actions that interfered with the application process. Specifically, Mrs. Stennington contacted FEMA and/or the Department of Homeland Security. Again, I attach a document. She did this unilaterally without the knowledge or approval of the commission. I submit that interference with the public safety funding process may constitute misfeasance or neglect of duty when undertaken by the chief executive officer of the municipality responsible for protecting the public welfare. Number four, repeat and unfounded complaints to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. Mayor Dennington has submitted multiple complaints to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement regarding municipal officials, town employees, and residents. Again, attached documents. Although I recognize that public officials have the right to report suspected misconduct, these repeated complaints were unsubstantiated and dismissed, raising concerns regarding misuse of state investigative resources, attempts to intimidate and disrupt municipal administration and abuse of official position. Number five, overwhelming results in an anonymous employee engagement survey with large percentages of responses accusing Mayor Dennington of quote unquote bullying quote unquote intimidating and fostering a quote unquote hostile workplace. This culminated in a 0% trust and satisfaction by the town staff in the commission. Again, attached items.

This request is made after many efforts by both citizens and town commissioners to rectify this situation in a mutually respectful manner to no avail. I am very proud to serve on the commission for the town of Melbourne Beach and I am bringing the situation to light because the commission including the mayor has a responsibility to the residents who elected us and I believe we are all to be held accountable. I sincerely thank you for your time and attention to this lengthy letter. It is an honor to live in the beautiful state of Florida, specifically under your governorship. Respectfully, Anna Butler, commissioner, town of Melbourne Beach. So, um I I believe if I'm correct, town attorney, that we can have someone make a motion to approve the letter and if it's seconded, then we can have discussion. Is that the correct next step?

Yes. Okay. Thank you. I'll make a motion to approve the letter. A second. Okay. Discussion.

I I just short discussion. I just want to say that just because someone says something in a letter, she outlined all these things. doesn't mean that a any of those things are true or true that the way she says for example um I have reached out to doge and I uh I I have never said I speak for the commission all individual commissioners elected officials are allowed to speak for themselves so it's there's nothing wrong with as elected official so the characterization as if there is something wrong or so I've never said I spoke speak for the commission I speak for myself, which you have a right to do. Um, I do want to note that and you also have the right to make a whistleblower complaint. Um, I never interfered with the FEMA. You have a right and a duty if you know if you believe that there has been some kind of fraud. I do want to point out that a year ago, I made a request as mayor. This is when we're about to vote on this the in the budget. with like 22 budget meetings and um I made a request as mayor for information from the fire department data as well as the risk assessment. Nobody that was when Mascara was here they wouldn't respond. Didn't get any you know it was like six weeks I'm sending this they won't even respond. So I then I said even though I shouldn't have to make a public records request I made a public records request for the risk assessment. That term is used like 20 times in the FEMA grant application. So, I basically just said the risk assessment, like a copy of the risk assessment that's been pending for a year, no response. It'll like we'll get to it when we can or whatever. But we just had a meeting the other day where the town where uh fire chief Gavin Brown finally for the first time admitted there is no risk assessment. So, FEMA has a definition of a risk assessment when you apply for these grants. It is a

written document with a bunch of requirements in the grant application where we were asking for he was asking for a million dollars. He says over and over that he they did a risk assessment based on the risk assessment. Um there is no risk assessment that it took a year and finally that's that's what we know. There's no risk assessment. So if we've gotten that grant and they had done some auditing or and requested a copy of the risk assessment that you state that he stated in that application, we wouldn't be able to provide them one because it doesn't exist. I reached out to FEMA to say I believe that there's false information in that. That was all I did. And by the way, that was a whistleblower complaint that I reached out to FEMA and there has been a contact back on that. And that's all I'm going to say on that. Uh the other stuff, you know, I I disagree with a lot of it, but I'm not going to go through every point. Just because you it's your opinion on the you know, there's other opinions. That's your slant on the facts or what you believe are the facts. There's a lot more information. So that's one side. I don't I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to go through point by point. So

can I make a point, Miss Smith? Sure. Thank you. Um, I did want to mention that we did have a meeting with uh the town attorney, uh, the fire chief, the mayor, and myself. Um, and while there was no written risk assessment, there was an informal risk assessment that was done, I did look at the grant application. Um, and there was no, um, requirement for a written risk assessment. So um I just wanted to make that clarification that the FEMA regulations have a definition of a risk assessment and it is a written report. So that

okay all all I'm saying is that there was no requirement for a risk assessment or for a written risk assessment in what they were requesting. Thank you, Miss Smith. But they do incorporate the regulations. So they don't have to interrupt you. They don't have to put it in there because they incorporate the regulations. I'm going to let Commissioner Reid, Commissioner Reid.

Sure. The um I I understand uh the the angst and and the the the um the purpose behind uh Commissioner Butler's letter here. Um I I'm not sure what we would be voting on here as a commission and if that there's any need as a commission to vote on this. My understanding was we had last time in the special meeting we had established that anyone can can write a letter to the governor at at any time. Um this letter is is um has your name on it here. It's signed signed by you. Um, so I'm assuming all these words are are yours. Um, and that you're not that there's no one else um co-writing this with you. Um, so I mean, so if if you've if you have in that deed wrote this yourself, why haven't you just mailed it? We, like I said, we already established that anyone can write that letter. I don't I don't understand what you're asking the commission to approve. I don't think it's an a commission approvable item. Do

you want me to answer? Yes. Go ahead, Commissioner Butler. I thought, and perhaps I misunderstood that the last meeting that we had when we discussed this that we decided that I was going to write a letter and bring it to the commission and get approval from the commission. If that's not the case, I'll be happy to do it. I I wanted input and and I thought that's what we agreed upon. And if I misunderstood, I apologize. And um yes, I did write it myself because I'm actually a pretty good writer. I have a question. Madam Mayor,

so one of the things in your letter has to do with the one of the centur, which by the way, I'm actually fairly proud of those censures. Um so they're like a badge of honor. Um especially, you know, the circumstances where they came up. Um the censure item literally related to an email that I sent to Doge um where I was like saying y'all need to look into the town like they're paying that we don't have a contract with an engineer and they've been the manager's been saying there's an engineer. It was like all of these different things. And then in that it I don't mention by name but I did use the word idiot. you know, one of the commissioners which got elected is an idiot like blind or whatever, doesn't see what's going on. And I said when that cent I said the one thing I will apologize for is that that one thing I could have done better even though you know I think Baldwin who brought the censor motion called me a psycho it but that was okay but so I did apologize for that but are you not conflicted on this topic? Is she not does she not have a conflict since literally this is a was about an issue with her but that's not a conflict. I'm I'm just curious.

I got a I've got a question. If I could interrupt this question. A voting conflict. I've got a question. Um so we did we did at the last meeting talk about bringing a letter to the commission that we could all vote upon. Uh and if if we could have a friendly amendment, maybe we could add the names of the other commissioners to this if we accept this. But I want I remember at the last meeting there was talk about uh defamation and if things were you have to be very careful in these kind of things that we wouldn't want to uh defame anybody. Um can you uh tell us Ryan a little bit about defamation of a of a a public servant.

Um so there's specific laws that govern basically private citizens and people who are elected. Um there are different standards for that. Defamation is essentially um a false statement that the person knows uh is not false in order to cause injury to somebody else um in a nutshell. But, you know, as elected officials, there's a much higher standard for defamation for an elected official, which is why you see people on Twitter, people, you know, calling elected officials different names, saying stuff about them because it's almost something that comes with the job. Um, so there is a heightened standard for that. Um, I don't know if you want me to get like into the case law or anything like that, but uh there is a distinction between an elected official and a private citizen. I just wanted to make that clear. And then uh Commissioner Reid, did you did you want to make a friendly amendment or were you just thinking that this should just be sent by by an uh Commissioner Butler on her own?

I would say that the town may have um I'm sorry. Hold on. Commissioner, hang on. Commissioner Reed has the floor up next because All right. I'll I'll recog um privacy lawsuit on your hands for what is mentioned in this letter. There are public There are people that are not public officials. Commissioner Reed. Yeah, I I was pretty certain in the last meeting and Mr. Knight perhaps you can clarify that that we had established that anyone can can write that letter to the governor um and make their and make their case and that it didn't require the commission to approve that happening.

Yeah, that's correct. So, anybody can write a letter. I believe the vote at the last uh meeting was for uh Commissioner Butler to write a letter um to present to the commission. Really, my only recommendation with that letter is that if there are people who are voting in the affirmative for that, that their signature blocks be added to that so it's clear who's actually supporting it and who's not. Okay. Madame Mayor,

um I just I do want So yes, when you're a public official, there is more leeway in terms of getting sued for defamation. Um there's slander, there's liel, and there's defamation. So he can tell you what there are. So you know, slander is the spoken word, one-year statation, liel is written word, and there's a longer sul. It's false statement fact. Defamation is sort of and then there is also invasion of privacy. So, this letter does mention my husband. He's a private citizen, but it mentions him by name, and you guys are going to send a letter with my husband. And you even got MD in here. Uh, and it mentions the company. So, you know, it's one thing to write a letter about me and then even, you know, reference a case number if you want, but when you start putting in private like this, it's, you know, it's a public, it's already a public record right now. So, you guys, there's a problem. you y'all have a problem right now because you know I mean it's it's one thing to go after me but it's another thing to be putting my husband my husband's never even been to a meeting why is my husband's name in here

maybe maybe I could answer isn't he a manager of manager of fo and that's all I said I do want to put and that is a fact and I'm only I'm not going to argue with you or debate with you however I will tell you that what I put in there is fact okay

he is the manager ofo as you are. End of story. Okay. But number three about the safer grant, just so you know, there's an OIG FEMA OIG investigator that contacted about that. So, um, you know, there's retaliation for a whistleblower complaint, right? So, I mean, like like y'all are going to do what you want, but be careful because one, the governor, first of all, I'm not even sure he's going to read like a three-page letter. I mean, honestly, but um you know what if he does look into this and or or somebody looks into it and they realize, well, you know, maybe they ought to look at y'all. I mean, I'm just and I I do take objection to my husband's name and I imagine my husband would take a huge objection to his name being in in here. So, um I just think that I think that it would be smarter for the town and I'm like that each each everyone who wants to write a letter to the governor, write your own letter because then the town is not on the hook for invasion of privacy, all of these different things. The official themselves may or may not be, but the town itself isn't. When the town votes to do something, it does change it. And you know um also there is a first amendment association right. So there's freedom of speech, there's freedom of association. There is also a state constitutional right to public records and there is a first amendment um and state right to the courts. Right? So um FNU is an entity. It's a separate corporate person. They have a right to request public records and if they don't get them, they have just like anyone does has a right to access the courts. In a way, y'all can do whatever you want to me, but by mentioning these things, y'all are it's it's like an intimidation sort of tactic in a way to like instead of dealing with the actual public

records and just producing them. It's like you're you're kind of turning this political theater and in a way potentially violating an entity's first amendment and constitutional rights which could you know and trying to intimidate them and defame them. So do whatever you want but I just you know Thank you madam. I'm going to ask Ryan to comment on that. Ryan, is there a concern u by mentioning the names of the manager of Feno LLC in this document? Is there a risk? Is it an invasion of privacy or is that a public I mean there's always a risk because anybody can always sue for anything. True.

Um you know what you want to be careful of is that you're not saying anything that's not true. So if it's a factual statement then that's something the town would be able to argue. The mayor brings up a good point as far as you know it being essentially sanctioned by the town and the town commission. Um you I would have to agree with her that you know anybody can send a letter. So you essentially have two courses of action. One is to have uh each individual commissioner send a letter if they would like. The other course is to uh submit this letter as is um with the signature block for the uh commissioners who are voting in the affirmative for it.

So I got a another question, a follow-up question. Sometimes it seems like the argument here is how many hats we're wearing. You know, like uh the mayor the mayor mentioned that she uh she reached out to uh uh the people with the safer grant as a private citizen, but she's also the mayor, you know. So if we send a letter individually, we're still commissioners, you know, we're not just p private citizens, we're elected officials, and that is the hat we wear. So if you call if you call an entity and you say you think that there's some kind of fraud or something going on and you wear the hat as the mayor, the leader of the town, you're still the mayor no matter what. So it it gets to the same kind of thing. So it seems to me you're giving advice saying that if we did this individually, it would not put the town at risk, but it would certainly it certainly is the same because we're commissioners.

No, because it's not a vote that the commission took. Okay. and and the vote is an official action by the town. Okay. So it that would not be the case if you all each individually submitted a letter to the governor.

Okay. All right. Any other discussion? Commissioner Corey. All I can say is um if it's if it's better for the town um for each person whether resident or commissioner to send a letter individually um then I would be for that um because I'm I'm about protecting the town and the residents. Um, so I think that's that's pretty good advice. Um, as far as as my limited knowledge, if if a company that's an LLC in the state of Florida is listed, it it's on the internet under Sunbiz with all the information. So that would seem like that would not be um information that everyone could not access. So I'm I'm I'm a little confused about why that's a big deal. Um and and I think that um I think the bottom line is is that everyone is being attacked um from the north side and the south side and center on everything that's in this and and um it just seems like there needs to be some kind of resolution. So, I'm I'm all for if it needs to be done individually, I'm all for that. Um and I don't think we would need to share what

we sent to the governor individually. um and and that would protect the town and so I would be I would be in favor of that if that is a good recommendation. Thank you. So is that a friendly amendment? It would is that something uh Commissioner Butler that you would accept as a friendly amendment?

Yes. And would and it kind of eliminates the need for a vote it sounds like to me. So and I amable to that if this again this is all about what's best for the town. This has got nothing to do with a vengeance or anger. It's got nothing I I I started this by saying it's it's it's a horrible situation. Um so if it's best for the town, according to the attorney for us to do our own thing, which I've said all along I would do, and if anybody else does, that's their private business, then I'm happy to take it off the table as far as a vote. Before you withdraw it, I did want I did want to say something. Yes. If that's okay.

You know, I talked about uh people wearing two hats and the difficulty of being the town leader and also having a leg uh litigation against the town, the opponent being the opponent of the town. And I think this puts puts such such the town in such conflict and and chaos. And and I wonder, you know, in seeing seeing all this written out so so nicely that, you know, if the if the mayor were to withdraw these this litigation against the town, I I I would consider that a win, not only for the mayor, but for the town. And I and you know, I as I said the last meeting, the litigation is harming the town. And so if you're wearing the hat as the town leader, how can you do both? How can you be the town leader and how can you continue to harm the town? So, I beg, I plead, I hope that you withdraw it. If if you're not comfortable doing that, if you're not ready, then I think we we move on.

And just for the record, for me, my letter is not it's not um dependent upon the litigation. There's more to it. So even if the litigation was dropped, I would continue to send the letter because there are more issues in there than just that, i.e. the treatment of the staff and and various things that I've stated. So yes, I I would love to see the litig litigation dropped, but that would not preclude me from continuing with um with making the governor aware of what's been going on for a long time. Well, I you know I obviously when when you're in negotiations for things, no one walks away happy, right? And so sometimes I ask for a little bit of grace on each person's part because you have to look at the legacy of this. What what is this going to mean? I I had many uh many uh residents reach out to me and say, "Hey, why are you causing so much trouble? You know, uh the mayor is going to be gone in November, right? you the town doesn't need all this stuff. And I think that that's kind of true. You know, what's the legacy? You know, oh, we're finally rid of her. You know, that's a terrible thing to think about. How about the legacy is that the that the mayor put the town above her personal interests, that the commissioners put their angst above their personal interests and that we forgave each other and we moved on and we did what's best for the town. That would be the step in the right direction and that would be what Melbourne Beach needs. I put that to you. I hope that you can take that to heart and think about it and I'll I'll give everybody a chance to reply to that. Uh, Madame Mayor,

um, there's this guy on Instagram and he's he's like an attorney and he's but he's real he has these things that he says these little one minute things and I watched one the other day and what he said what he he was like he's got this real calm voice and he was saying that um, you know, conflict what is conflict like it's you know what is the name conflict? I mean it's it's in a way it's like you know it's like conflict or fighting or whatever. But what he what he said was he said you know um conflict is not bad conflict is good. Uh it's how the conflict you know happens but but conflict is the change maker. That was what he said. Um he said what you have to work on is one being comfortable with conflict and being able to assert yourself and how you go about it. Right? And everybody has their own sort of litness, have their own ethics sort of of what what drives, you know, whatever. When I ran for office, it was because I'd been coming to meetings forever. And the votes and the discussion, it was like they had everyone had already decided, you know, it was like this public performance of a vote, but everybody already knew. There was no public information that was getting out. There were they weren't following the codes, you know. Um, so I ran for office. Um, and by the way, the way you get records, the way you get information when the when the when the commission's not doing what they're supposed to is by public records, but then if nobody responds to those, then then what the law says is, well, you have a right to go to court to enforce it. So, um, conflict is the change maker. Okay? Transparenc is important. Transparency fixes everything, y'all. I've heard people say, and you say legacy, no, it hasn't been easy, but I'm pretty darn proud of myself because guess what? Elizabeth Mascara is not here anymore. And she was a cancer on this town. She was a cancer on this town. She was one of the huge problems. She's not here anymore. She would still be here if it

had not been for me. I mean, in December, I made a motion to to fire her then. Um, but she she's finally and I think even everybody up here, even Baldwin and Barlo when we had like 22 budget meetings where repeatedly she was supposed to bring us something at the next meeting and then literally still didn't have it, you know, and kept like our budget. It was like like that's her main job, right? So, she's gone because so that's my legacy. We have an amazing manager now and Lisa Frasier was amazing too. We had her. So you want to talk about let but you know what that does that never would have come about without a fighter and without conflict. Conflict is the change maker. Also talk about like the record scanning project and all that. First of all they're still not even scanned available. But that never would have happened if it hadn't been for me coming to meetings when I was on the other side you know trying to get information not being able to get it. Um you know I mean we got the U citizens advisory board like you know I got that done. So, we amended our charter. I had to fight with the very first commission on that. We got the technology advisory board that they've been great. Um, so there we I pushed through I fought I fought I fought I had weekly meetings for like a year plus on short-term rentals because the former commission said, "Well, there's nothing we can do. You know, we have the regulation." Now, had is it being enforced? No. Because when Mascara was here, she was dragging her feet. But, you know, and I tried to work on that, too. and I got ridiculed for it, but we tightened up our Airbnb regulations and I fought for that despite just being, you know, um, so I am proud of my legacy and conflict is not bad. Conflict is a change maker and sometimes it's needed to change and you know and and there are not ever before a lot of people willing to do it

and you want to know why? Because they come for you. If you say that we need to reduce some of our staff size because we we're bloated in staff, they come for you. But you know what? That's what this job is. So there's a reason why nobody ever would vote would run before because they don't want this to happen. You get in the seat and then you're supposed to do what you you know what you campaigned on. We have literally every single thing I campaigned on I you know we even have a hotline. I mean I don't know if we're using it but we tightened up our Airbnb like all of these things. So you talk about legacy, but I'm really proud of my legacy actually. And again, FANU is a corporate entity. It's completely different. The the Florida statutes have a provision and it happens all the time where there are people that sit up here that have conflicts. You recuse, you know, on the vote. There is no ethical there is no issue. I don't vote on I've recused whenever it's come up. There literally is no ethical issue. But what y'all are trying to do really is intimidate Fenu or anyone else out there who ever wants to make a public records request because it's like you know what y'all are doing or anybody maybe who wants to run. I mean but do whatever you want but you know I am proud of my legacy. there have been a lot of changes and none of those I think wouldn't have come if it hadn't been for me and it hadn't been for me taken so many hits you know so yeah

well that's that's why I say you you've accomplished many things you set out to do and I would take I would recommend taking the win and withdraw the cases so you don't harm the town any further well I'm not the plaintiff so I'm not you're you request like oh I'm sorry I'm sorry as manager of feno I would hope that you would withdraw the case. Well, I'm not going to discuss that. There's I'm not discussing the the litigation. I'm discussing myself as mayor. Very good. Okay. Commissioner Butler,

something quickly just to address that and not being your you. Um your open letter to the town of Melbourne Beach when you were running for mayor. I came across it because I was trying to look up the exact name of, you know, to make sure I got everything right in the letter and that popped up and I read it and in there you state Funo is my company. You state it. I Well, I didn't you didn't it's a four member entity.

Well, I'm just saying to you that you are very adamant about saying it is not you. However, if you refer to that, which is still available if you Google, I saw it and I said, "Huh, that's interesting. I just want to put that out there." I don't remember. So, I I have to look at it. But you're welcome to. Commissioner Corey,

it's not it's a four member LC. I think that I think that what is is being lost in the argument is that the translation of what you believe that you've accomplished that you believe is is good for the town and the expense to the taxpayers that is not good for the town and the hardship upon the staff. that doesn't seem to be good for the town. So, I think that if you weigh that scale, you'll you'll see that the angst, as it was described, is that what we're what we're being put through um for the definition of your legacy is not fair to the taxpayers. And I think that if you want to still try to do all this stuff that you feel um needs to be done, then don't keep suing everybody over it. Just do it and and for the betterment of the town, drop all the expensive lawsuits. I mean that that's what everybody is um mostly concerned about is the amount of of taxpayer money that's going towards that. If if you feel that there's something that needs to be done as an agenda item, you know, accomplish that, but let all of the other stuff go. That's I think that's what the nuts and bolts of this is really about is we're not trying to circumvent. We're trying to make this

better and but it's costing a fortune and that's what I think is the issue is the expense of your legacy. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, I'm going to let Commissioner Reid have the have the last word on this and then uh, Commissioner Butler, if you want to withdraw, we can. I I had nothing to add. I was just going to try to we go back to perhaps where Commissioner Butler wants to go with this then.

Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Butler. in the best interest of the town upon the advice of the attorney. It sounds as though it's it would behoove the town if I withdraw this as an agenda as an as an item to vote upon and that people can do anybody any citizen anybody on the commission can do it. Um, and I guess you know the question then is if I do it, am I a commissioner or am I just somebody that lives on Avenue A? Depends on how you say

I'm asking the attorney. Thank you. The way it's written now would be as a commissioner um with the current wording. So, if you were to change that, well, I can change it if I if that would be advisable. But then, you know, if somebody's going to slap something on me, uh, what what is in my best interest because clearly there's been a threat about that. So, we've all heard it. Yeah. So, so let's just let's just call a spade a spade. I don't think he adal. Yeah. In your individual capacity. That's could he answer instead of It's not something that I can address right now. I would object to him giving you Well, he's not going to answer the question.

He He

Madame Mayor, would you like to say something? Um no he addressed I I wanted to also point out I forgot one I didn't go through my my like leg whatever but BSE we now have three engineers that we can use and projects are going faster I believe because we have those three engineers we you know uh and that issue alone was one of the reasons why the state auditors are here because I made a public record as a citizen for the BSE contract it's contract it's simple like four years never could get it when I became mayor I requested the contract. I was sworn in November 2023. I asked for it just ignored by the former manager. Again, Elizabeth Mascara was a cancer and the staff. Yes. But you know, she cultivated she cultivated an atmosphere of just fear and sort of gossipiness.

Madam Madame Mayor, I'm just going to I'm going to interrupt you just for a second. It's not nice to call somebody cancer. It's defaming. That's not appropate. previous not appropriate and I think it's incredibly inappropriate. It is. I agree. So, um um so you withdrew did you withdraw this and you're going to do it on your own? Yes. All right. And and Madame Mayor, you're not going to withdraw your cases from Fel. I'm no comment. No comment. All right. I'm going to pass this back and you go on.

Okay. All right. So, next So, we will move on. Next item on the agenda is um we have um poinsetta 506 poinsetta pages 97 to 136. Is that correct, Mrs. Brown? Am I on the right item? Poinsetta. Okay. All right. And I have that here. Okay. Uh does anyone have any questions or any comments on um this or is there any public comment for discussion? I I thought you pulled it. So yes, I did because I The reason why is when I was used to sit out there, there were times when members of the public

like would complain about the fact that there was there were houses because it's building and development on the consent agenda that like how is it that they're they're on the agenda, but there's never any opportunity for public comment. So minutes are one thing, but I for my thing is I always I I I pull these items because that way it gives it an opportunity for there to be a public comment. Sometimes there's questions, sometimes it's just, you know, for there an opportunity to be public comment and there was nobody here from that, you know, so we're not holding them up either, but this way it allows an opportunity for public comment. So I don't have any issues with it. I just wanted there to be an opportunity for it. If they had actually been here, I would have said, you know, can we move them up so they don't have to wait? But we never So that that's all. If there's any public comment or any questions then if not then somebody can make a motion to approve.

So moved. Okay. Is there a second? Second. Okay. We have a motion and a second to approve 506 Poinsettia Road. Um it's an addition. Is there any public comment on the motion? Seeing none, all in favor say I. I. I. All opposed. That carries 50. Okay. Now we will move to uh reports. Is that what we are on? Finance or finance. And I don't see the finance manager. So I will turn it over to Miss Smith, the manager.

Yes. Um as you can see on pages 175 to 214, you have the finance budget report. I don't know if you have any questions about it. um the finance manager um she had to take some days off because she had worked a lot of hours in um dealing with the auditors. So um we had to minimize her hours to keep it to 80.

Miss Smith, do you have any update on the FEMA obligated funds?

Yes, I do. Um, we had gotten notice that uh FEMA because they're part of Homeland Security and because they aren't completely funded that they are minimally funded right now. Uh we were told that right now uh FEMA is only working on uh Hurricane Helen uh grants. Uh however uh we still have been working with uh Florida Emergency Management and they're the uh conduit to get the FEMA money. So, they have asked us for a bunch of documents and we have provided them um as much information. We are waiting to hear back from them to see if they need anything else, but I think they're looking through what we have supplied them.

Thank you. Any other questions? Anyone? Uh anybody? No. Okay. So, we do um per our charter, we do have to approve the finance report. That's the only reports that we have to approve. So, if there's no other questions or comments then but we don't take public comment when we approve it. Um I make a motion to approve the finance budget as is. Second. I'm sorry. Okay. Fighting for it. Okay. So, we have a motion from uh Commissioner Butler and the vice mayor. Um, all in favor say I.

I. All opposed? Nay. So, the finance report carries 41. I'm dissenting. Okay. So, then next report. Is it town clerk? Where are we at? What's that? Technology. Technology. Okay. Do and we do have a member from the technology advisory board, but no report. Okay. Um. All right. So then we will move on to the next report which is building um uh and I will give that to the town manager.

Okay. Uh the building department report is pages 215 to 223. Um I want to see if you have any questions about it. Um, I don't have a question, but I do have something in anticipation of the budget when we get to the budget. Um, I think that we do need to raise our building fees because I don't um uh forever the history of the town, like the building department has has been in the red, you know, before. And um when we when we did the RFP for the building services, I mean, several of them said like, "Yeah, I think that you're they're actually too low. You ought to raise them." in it. So, in addition to all the other stuff, you know, with the property tax and something that might be something that we really do ought to consider, um, you know, and when you think about it and people may complain, but we need to be able to have the funds for a building department. Um, so I I think that that would be something that we should look into. I don't we don't need to vote on it, but that would just be something that other people have suggested it before. And um that's the those fees are something outside of property taxes. So it would you know um and I would like to send you some information about a particular company. I've mentioned it before with a former manager but there is a company there's a pilot we can use it for free. Um, and it is an there's several states that have mandated this and Florida may be moving towards this, but it is a automated AI program that um that's that does everything electronic for certain types of building permits. And I think that we there's a category of building permits that we could potentially use this pilot program for free and take that category away from the building. It's like fences. There's a couple things where um and that actually might free up the time for the building official for doing other things. I will get you in information. Just wanted to mention it.

Um the state of Florida probably at some point will move towards this. They're already requiring certain more things like to be faster and you know actual like building and stuff we need to have a building official but things like fences you know it's there's it's it's just an AI program would be perfect for it. So, there's a way to get it in the ground floor and use it for free because they want to have a pilot in Florida. Okay. I I will research the uh fees with other neighboring jurisdictions and uh if you could send me the information on this company, I'd appreciate it. Thank you. That's all I have. Any other questions?

I have a question in in the building report on page uh 22 222 at the at the bottom there. the the final two items there for 207 Flamingo Lane. So, it it shows um approved and it shows the inspector as Roberto Moreno, who which I believe was the previous um building inspector and hasn't been here for many months and it has a date of being completed in uh this this last this last month and I I don't believe he was here. Um, I saw is there is this a different Robert Moreno or I'm conf confused on if he's not our building inspector. Was he doing the in this inspection? So,

I am not familiar with any other Robert Moreno. So, I'll have to investigate and find out who um why his name is on the or he may have been the one who issued the permit, but I don't wondering if he's Yeah. who did the inspection. I'll get clarification on that. Commissioner, get back to you. Um, Commissioner Knight or um Reed, what page was that? Did you say did you 222?

Okay. 22. Okay. Page. I'm just looking at my notes. Page 22. Okay. Good. All right. Any other questions or issues? Okay. So, we can move on then to the I believe it's the code code report next. So, um uh are there any questions? Anybody? Public works is next I think. Oh, is it? Sorry, I'm just going in here. Building department.

Okay. Don't we didn't we usually have the the we did with the inspection report the code? Well, it's on the agenda, but it's just building. It's we they used to be Oh, yeah. That's weird. But in the pages, it it comes before. Okay. Like the code is before public works. All right. Public work. Any questions on public works? Yes. Go ahead. I'm just annoyed at the continued vandalism of our public bathrooms

and this is something a month after month we hear this and I don't know what the solution is. Um um we we talked I think at one meeting that there's a difficulty in putting up a surveillance because it's a bathroom, right? So you can't you can't invade people's privacy. But I wonder if there's a way that we can surveil outside the bathroom. Yeah. You know, right? That would be that would you know maybe even a some kind of like a surf cam where you could have you could view the surf and who's ever going into the bathroom, you know? Well, yeah. I mean, you can have a you can have a a camera outside out outside. I mean, if it's public property, um I I agree because, you know,

if we had a camera, all of this going on, we probably we would we could document the days and times that it's happening over a stretch of time. And that data alone is going to potentially tell you, you know, if it's always happening like around a certain time, you know, if it if it always happens like around spring break or I mean, you know what I mean? Like I feel like we might be able to narrow it down as to who it is. Plus, we'd have sus like whoever was around that area and went into the bathroom on the day it got vandalized. Yeah.

So, if if I if I could have the commission's permission, I'd like to reach out to Chief Sander and just give him these kind of ideas. I I I bet you it's just one crazy kid. And I was a crazy kid when I was young, but I wasn't that crazy, but I knew some that would do that. And it's always this one guy, you know. So, we got to get them. We got to get them. Um I would suggest Yeah. I think reach out to Xander. Maybe you could ask Xander to get like to to to spec what like where we might be able to put a camera, you know, where they have to have one or two and what angles and like come back to us because then then we could potentially approve because granted that's going to cost a little money, but we're spending a ton of money having to fix them and it's like always happening. So if he could if the cameras are not going to show you anything,

but they're going to show you who. So say, but you're going to accuse you been in that bathroom at 10:00 p.m. I bet you that on the toilet. Here's the thing. If we have cameras there, say it got vandalized today on this night and a month from now it got vandal a different night and a month from that and then you look at that that footage and the only the only thing that's the same is that this one person is the one going in. That is some evidence, right? I think that Then what you could do is you see that person then in the future going on it and the police we could go in and catch them. I mean to talk to Chief Sander. Yeah. If if I get your your permission. I don't understand why we don't have cameras there already. But

is there anybody who uh doesn't want me to talk to Chief Sander hearing? Okay. So I'll do that. Thank you. Okay. Um, I would like a long time ago there was an issue with the dumpster over um and some like water pooling and foulness over by the sand on the beach. There's some residents. Um, the town was going to look into it and if it happened again, they were going to start taking like some more aggressive enforcement. I haven't heard about it happening again, but that's something that every now and then comes up and there's some residents that they have some children and they walk by that area. It's like right by their house. Just to follow up, could you look into see if that issue has better if it was addressed to Tom probably because he's looked into it before?

Okay. But I would say put that on their radar because when it's happened before um the former manager said if it happens again, we are going to actually take an enforcement action. So with you being new, but um is this on Ocean Avenue by the ocean? Yeah, it's it's it's the restaurant area. Um it's first avenue behind the restaurant. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. There's that those Okay. Um, could I ask a question? Yes. Um, do we have anybody that may become our code enforcement officer as an applicant? What what is happening in that?

Yeah. So, right now the um we have somebody who we have we have a two twopronged approach on that. Um right right now we had to put the uh recruitment on um temporary hold because um we wouldn't have the time even to interview people. Uh the last two weeks has just um just drowned us. Uh so the second approach is we are going we have asked one of our um uh town employees who was interested to see if he would want to step up and he is uh going out with uh the fire chief uh I'm sorry the fire uh marshall who does the vacation rental inspections and he is uh showing this employee the ropes. I think part of the problem we've had is that uh there's not been that uh uh connection with the town and it was just about salary and benefits. Um this particular employee has has shown an interest in you know and a loyalty to the town for about two years and uh an interest in wanting to do this. So, uh we're going to train for about um four weeks and see if uh this person has the aptitude for it and uh vice versa. See if he wants to do this job and um we're going to open up in four weeks the uh job again and uh he can apply for it. Uh we will see what other applicants we have. Um, but it's not advisable to have a job that's opening that's opened up for about a month or two and no action on it. People get kind of irritated. Um, you know, people who have applied to the job, they get frustrated. So, we just decided temporarily to close it because we knew we couldn't be able to do it over the course of the next four weeks. But instead, we are using that time to train someone. and even if he does not take

the job, we have somebody who kind of is a um fall back, you know, who can do at least some of the code enforcement. So, that just started um this week. Thank you. Um I did for two other things that I wanted to mention and uh can you send an email?

Um no, I can't get into my email so I don't have so I can't Sorry. Um but it won't be very long. So um there is a lady named Lori Adler. She lives in town. She worked with the former manager. Um she is blind. Um and um she the the former manager was working and you can talk to Tom Davis too about because the light right there. One of the things when I was in Tallahassee, the state of Florida actually has got a a chunk of money um for small communities to get funds um and I think it's like 100% apply for it. We need to we need to look into it and apply for it right away because um and and with DOT or whatever, but to to put in um accessibility um at lights. So that I perked up when I heard that because it's something that she's wanted and it actually and it's not really it's not just for you know um it it's you know older people, elderly, we have that one light and it's pretty scary crossing. Um it's expensive to put those in and we don't necessarily have it in the budget but there is a chunk of grant money because the state is actually pushing to try to get those more throughout the state for safety. So, that's one thing to look into. The I and I remember the other thing that the legislature um scooters and electric bikes, we're going to be able to regulate them locally because as y'all have probably know, there's been injuries and there was a death not very far from here up north. Um and so that's been an issue. So, there there are a areas in which we actually get authority and that is one of them. Um, so we can look into and pass um an ordinance where where basically we can regulate them. And one of the things that was interesting, I don't quote me on that. I I'm going to get the manager the information, but you know, we have our pedway where all the kids and everybody goes and I've had several citizens say that, you know, the people whiz by. We actually can post I

think it's like a a you know, a speed limit there for the electric bikes and that there is a new they're putting in a state requirement that you have to slow down to 10 like to 10 miles an hour when you pass anybody on those when you're on an electric vehicle, but that's not on the road. So we probably I would say we need to look into it, find out what it is and be ready to you know to implement that because that's there's a lot of citizens that have you know complained about that and people in the state you know a woman got hit by somebody on electric bike and was killed. So um on code enforcement why can't we use our our police officers? I know that I I did and I and I do get that the um I I read the the police um Xander's um discussion about you know why they don't want to but here's my thing um in our code code enforce it's a misdemeanor or whatever and that the police like that's what it says in our code that enforce it they can enforce it if we train them I know that the police like to be sort of the you know the happy kind of, you know, they do coffee with a cop and they do all these different events and they like to sort of be the everybody loves, you know, and and that is important because you do, you know, you want people to trust the police and stuff. So, they maybe don't want to do code enforcement because they don't want to sort of be the bad guys as, you know, as opposed to like writing tickets or whatever. um we're in this predicament and we you know talk about safety but code enforcement especially for you know big issues is a safety issue and we spend a lot of our budget I mean half more than half of it on our police department and we don't have a lot of crime but we need code enforcement we have there are a lot of communities where they have they use their police for code enforcement for both so I just I don't understand why we aren't

efficiently actually using that. Madame Mayor, that was addressed in the police report.

I know. I know. And he said, you know, the reason why, but I but that is Chief Xander's, you know, opinion, but also as a commission and the manager. I mean that we we literally are spending money for trained people that have the authority to do code enforcement, but we're just not using it. And if you talk about safety code, if you code, that's safety. So, it's just something that I I don't understand why we're not using it. I mean, we we spent a lot of money on our budget on on our on our police department, which is great. And why don't we use them? that if we have a shortfall of money and we have to cut, you know, we could use an existing resource. Could I ask a question?

Um I would ask this uh to Mr. Knight. Um co I mean uh um Chief Xander commented that using police officers as code enforcement officers blurs uh the roles and can lead to unnecessary legal gray areas and potential challenges. Do you have any thoughts on this and and maybe you could educate what what does that mean to us? Um, so there's there are different encounters that code enforcement officers have as opposed to police officers. One, most code enforcement officers are not armed with a weapon, with a firearm, right?

Um, for code enforcement, there's special rules. You can't go into the backyard. You can't, you know, peer over um a fence, something like that. Um, a police officer, you might get to a situation where if he's chasing someone, he goes through someone's backyard, then notices a code enforcement issue. sort of weird one-off issues like that. Um, I can say most municipalities do have dedicated offic code enforcement officers. Um, so you really don't see a lot of patrol officers pulling up for code enforcement violations. Um, a few reasons for that. Uh, one, you're paying the police officers more. um for the special magistrate hearings, it would require them showing up and essentially presenting the case to the special magistrate. You don't know if they're going to be on duty for that. You don't know if it's going to be their off day, but whatever case they have, they would be required to present that to the special magistrate. So, there's a lot of sort of tangental issues with that. Um but I can say normally there is a dedicated and a separate code enforcement officer.

Thank you. I do want to say we have officer burn over there and one of our very successful code enforcement cases was based on I mean just driving by and just sort of like hey you know at like there was a house that wasn't registered and they're having an Airbnb and he just there was there was a complaint I think about noise or whatever and went by or okay yeah driving by and he was like hey you know um I mean it was just like a random convers and um and they basically just said to you like that um I think there was a video too or was there? Yeah. That oh yeah, we're renting this house. It's an Airbnb and so like that was a code enforcement case which the evidence we needed because you have to have some um you can't just have hearsay. So we had anyway I mean I I get it. It I do think that there's issues or whatever. Um but again I mean you can avoid some of these issues just with I mean our police officers are smart. They have to do a lot of training. We actually have they Chief Xander incorporated this extra training in. So you basically just train you know there's you just train when you're when you're doing code enforcement this like you could even don't wear your holster and change into a code enforcement shirt. I mean you know like you can train and I know you said that most don't. Yes. But I don't know that you've necessarily done a survey of all the cities in like you know I would be interested to kind of see if there is any data on are there any cities in Florida that use their police officers because I do think there are some more serious ones where they do. I don't know the statistics on that

but I think that there you know but so there might be a few outliers. You know the problem also is code enforcement is a lot of paperwork. Yeah. You're having to send out notices. You're having to constantly monitor that. Yeah. Um, so you know, you're probably going to get to a situation where police officers, I don't know if they're going to have time to do that, time to monitor that, time to show to the hearing. Yeah. And he addressed that on Yeah. on page 229, 230, 231. Yeah. I think I think it's important to know that, you know, Chief Sander has an opinion that's pretty pretty well vetted being Yeah. very experienced in this.

Well, I I wouldn't expect our police officers to do all the paperwork. I think that there's administrative staff even like there's administrative staff within the police department and the town that could do the bulk of a lot of the paperwork like they may have to sign things. My understanding that whoever the person is that has the violation has to do all the paperwork and all the has to be in front of the magistrate has to file everything or go to court. Well, they would come. So, that would take the that would take a police officer a lot of time off duty and then we would be short-handed for for for um police business. Pretty well.

I would say excuse me, I'm not done speaking. I understand that the reserve, but I also understand the point that uh the chief brought up and talking with some of the um situations that have happened in our code enforcement, it is it is something that is a more than just an eight hour a day job. So, I think we need a we need to continue our efforts to hire someone. Thank you.

Agree. I we need to continue efforts. My only thing is, you know, Airbnb short-term rental, it's always always been an issue. They're not it's not being enforced. Our regulations aren't tight enough. We get the regulations tight, but still it's like the list grows and residents are frustrated and it's like, you know, um so it is a way. I mean, personally, I would be in favor of saying that we have like that we could we if we're going to use like we could use our police officers maybe just for Airbnbs because that's a particular thing that we could train them for and we like you're not going to do any other code enforcement. Nothing that has to do with building, you know, not the grass, none of it. Because if we that we we have we keep getting code enforcement after they leave, but you know what we have continuity with? We have 12 officers that we pay for and if they just did Airbnb stuff and they had admin staff to help them with all the paperwork plus we have the um we have the software that we pay for. So that actually does a lot of the reporting of the paperwork that might that would be a way where we could actually start tackling the Airbnb and have continuity and have training on just a specific area that is really important town. I think everyone up here ran on that, you know, short-term rental. And so that's just my suggestion is that we really ought to consider that. it it would be a way to tackle um going after the Airbnb ones. And I think that maybe the police officers, you know, because a lot of times, here's the thing, police officers are already responding to noise complaints and calls about Airbnbs or parking. So we could have like train them all in some of the basics and maybe rotate around and designate every three months like two officers are going to be the Airbnb code enforcement officers like you know just just ideas but like because regard if we did something like that regardless of whether we have a code enforcement officer that comes or goes we'd have some continuity on the Airbnb front

which is something that residents have wanted for a long time. I'm just saying. However, the code enforcement for other issues is, in my opinion, a bigger issue right now. The houses that are dilapidated and and abandoned are prevalent. So, anyway, can we move on to the next one?

Okay. Yep. Uh, anything else? Okay. Um, so we are on um fire department, I believe, because we did code enforcement. and right fire department and um is there any questions? We don't have the chief here but pages 226 to27. Any questions from the commission or shall we move on? I had just one question. Okay, Commissioner Reed, you got the floor.

So, he he typically provides the report. But I I guess it it didn't make maybe it didn't make it into the package or if we could get that as an later as a an add-on to the package. Um page 226. I'm sorry. What specifically are you referencing? I'm sorry. In his report, he typically has his table with all the calls and uh the detailed information of that. So maybe it just didn't get into the package this time and if if it's not a a burden if we could get it as a addition later would be good.

On page one he has a breakdown but it's not in that format that you're referencing but it does have a breakdown. Yeah because you know in the past like response times all that if we're going to be comparing things like we need we need to have the same information. And if he's changing the information, we can't then compare anymore. So why is there a reason why he changed? Um I'll I'll check with him. Okay. And I'll get back to you. Okay. Yeah. Anybody else have any? I'm not aware of any any changes. It may just not have made it to the report. Okay. Um and you'll follow up just with an email on that to the I can follow with you. I thought your email was broken.

Well, yeah, but it'll be there hopefully whenever I can get into it. I mean, I'm gonna have to go buy a whole new computer on my own expense because the computer move on to the um police department. Town kept my Bit Locker key. Are we ready to move on to police? I am.

Yep. No other questions on fire. Okay. Uh we're on the police report and Chief Xander is not here. Um does anybody have any questions? I do. Uh I wanted to know about page 228 completed work on town hall PDF public works. So that's basically like all the town property key system and security accountability. Um and then the volunteers have completed 59 total hours of volunteer service for the month and 140 total hours for the year. I did learn that the volunteers are what some of their activities are and it was concerning. the volunteers are shredding personnel, shredding police records without um they're not complying with the state law where where the you provide an inventory of what you're shredding and then you have a an official with authority either the manager or the police chief sign off that the town has retained that the the records that are being shredded have been retained for the the longest category that they fall in because sometimes a record falls into bunch. But um apparently um Chief Xander is having untrained volunteers shred police records

apparently this week. I think you're leaving out that they're also scanning those into the system.

Okay. But the town the the town um in 2024 was presented with a request by the town clerk to um exactly this to uh once we scan the records in. She requested it was an item that the town clerk put up. Once we scan the records in, I would like to have the electronic record be the quote master copy because under state law and because this the scanned record is a copy but not the master copy and the town commission did not approve that. So that's never been taken up again. So the they can scan the records in but those are the scanned records are a copy because the town commission specifically was brought this and decided not to do that at a public meeting in 2024. So but for whatever reason volunteers are shredding our master copies of records without any certification or inventory. They're shredding our master copies. So I am curious if that's what some of these volunteer and and I I don't even know I don't understand how volunteers because I it's great but personnel records you usually don't have anybody that's not an employee even looking at personnel records. So again that's concerning too that volunteers are going over personnel records from the police department. So anyway, I just I'm concerned about that. I

I believe uh Chief Jander said that his volunteers have been trained um in doing the digitization and uh case work and looking over the different records. So I believe they did receive training for that. Um you know, I'll go back and verify what specific training, but he

Yeah, I mean I don't think volunteers should touch personnel, right? You know, we have um volunteers on the technology advisory board that were not given access. It was like, "Oh, we can't share any of this." Blah, blah, blah. Even if they they're trained, even if they sign like non-disclos all of that, but then so that was it was like, okay, but but then the volunteers are going over personnel records because personnel records are actually one of the one of the personnel records are there's aspects of them that are that are sensitive. So like sometimes even so yeah, anyway, I just it's very concerning to me. Um I but I would like to know about the security and accountability because I understand that the also the volunteers were given a set of keys. Apparently there's like a giant chunk of keys and they've been going around because there's some you know uh doors and like trying to figure out which door you know where like get the set of keys sorted. But again, I I think it's great that he has volunteers, but I am really concerned about the fact that Chief Sander is using volunteers for really kind of important things. And um like was our key system for town hall, for public works, for fire department, was our key system and our security accountability a problem that we needed to fix? So, I know that this started before you were here. Um, but what is that about? What was the problem? What's what's

Does this refer to your uh your litigation, madam? Uh, no. This is right here. Right here on I know, but your your questions about keys and key fobs. Doesn't that lead into your litigation? Uh, it is on his report. Uhhuh. And it's a legitimate question. I'm not You're mentioning litigation, but I'm asking about what what is this? Possibly. You could have asked him and had a conversation not on the dasis. Yeah. Oh, point of order. Uh, uh, Mr. Knight, is that inappropriate questioning? So, you have to follow your procedures for that. If you have a point of order, you have to say what it is. Yeah. What's What is the point of order? I'll tell you. The chair will make a ruling and then you guys point of order is

it's fine. 4710 Robert's rules. You're you have a you have a special uh situation because you're involved in this litigation. So when you bring this up, you are you're you're getting into the area where you're going to look not impartial. You're not going to look impartial. It's on his report. Sure it is. But you're asking questions. I can ask questions about something on his report. You asked Miss Smith about keys. Your point is not well taken. Okay. So um I said a point of order not well taken. Basically, you're saying, can I ask the lawyer for his opinion? You're saying that there's a conflict. You say that there's a conflict and I should recuse or not ask, but I that's not something that is ruled on. If you disagree with the

You can file an ethics complaint. That's why we have the attorney. I mean, we have we are being recorded by a court reporter. So people know there's a court reporter. Hello. There's a court reporter here. And you were questioning the town about keys. I'm reading from his inappropriate. I am reading. This is what Chief Xander wrote on his report. I had nothing. It says completed work on town hall. Absolutely true. BDF FD. No, I just said what is this about? You did. That's what I asked. That's what I'm saying. It's inappropriate. Okay. Well, it's not Mr. Knight. So, she's asking what it's about. Chief Sanders not here. My recommendation would be to direct that to the town manager and then she can get an answer for you. That is what I'm I'm I'm I'm requesting. Could you move provide information of what this is about? All right. Let's move on.

I'll I'll check with Chief Xander. Okay. All right. Uh, any other questions? Nope. Okay, we will move on to Are we at clerk report now? Yes. Okay, Mrs. Brown, go ahead. Does the commission have any questions? I have a question. I'd like to know when the mayor is going to hand over the public records that are called for on the report that are in her possession and under her management.

Um, I I've got a great answer for that. The day that the clerk the day that the clerk sent me an email about that, I responded and said, I believe I do have some records, but I need and I responded to her. I responded to the town attorney and I responded to the former manager and I said, "And I am ready, willing, and happy, and able to. I need you to get me some IT assistance." Um, and I am waiting for a response. And then I resent that several times. every time they asked and I I I never even got so much as a we got your email, we're looking into it. So, the town attorney has said before at a meeting that yes, it is the town's responsibility to get commissioners assistance and the former manager, she she didn't. Since then, he has said like, "Okay, we're going to try to get like some um it." However, since then, I did an update to 26 to iOS 26 and I have two phones that are completely bricked that you cannot get anything from them. And I I told them this, too. Um I pay $150 for those cell phone numbers that I can't use. And I bought those phones personally and I can't use them, but I haven't done anything because there's a public records request. However, by the way, you'll note that um the town also hasn't provided Joyce Barton's uh she's on there, too. So, when the clerk says that waiting on commissioner, it's really not technically accurate because I've been waiting on the town. I made specific requests that day. I need IT assistance and they've just been ignored. So, it's actually the town we're waiting on. And that's why it was brought to y'all um for a phone because you know somebody sent an email to me. They they I get spam all the time and they used my personal cell phone and then they ran it through the town

system. So they signed me up for a subscription and it was Dennington with my personal cell phone. That's No, that's what it is. And I I said before maybe point of order that's it's what it was. It went through the town email system. Point of order inappropriate language that we have heard from.

Okay. Well, I didn't want to get it either and I didn't want somebody putting my personal cell phone and signing me up for stuff. But so you're y'all are not waiting on me. I've been waiting on y'all to answer your question. I've been waiting on y'all. I've been wait the the manager that you loved Mascara ignored that email for two months and never even responded and did not provide the it. So that's the reason Mascara is the reason why that response the town's the the requesttor is not waiting on me. I've been waiting on the town. Madam Mayor, yes,

we're all cosmopolitan enough that you can just give us the initials. We don't have to you don't have to speak from the dis with that language. Um I just had a a question that was brought to my attention and uh this is uh about public records. Um when we were together last time I I had done some research about stuff and and you had asked me if if you could look at my papers and someone said by letting you look at my research that becomes a public record and that I'm in I'm in uh ethical violation. Is that true? I don't know what papers you're talking about. If somebody just looks at them, it's and you're sharing information or

It was the research I was doing on the litigation. The research I was doing on litigation and the mayor asked if she could look at it. I shared it with her and I guess I guess it was on video and people said that that's an ethical violation. If that's not true, I mean, is it a public record now that I shared it with the mayor? So, I would have to look and see what was shared, what it was. But it would be like something if you're sharing an email, it would depend on that. I I just when you were I can look at it after you were reading it, you mentioned a statue. So, I was like, "Oh, cuz I wanted to see the stat." I was like, "What's the statute?" Of course, but I got I got some grief about it. So, I just want to be sure I want to be sure that I'm trying my best. I'll take a look at it.

Okay. let us all know because I'd be I mean I do know that like when you make notes like I make notes on my things I mean I think that they potentially are public record so I keep all of these my it's like it's just block of every one of these meetings I mean well it's a burden not you know our communic ability to communicate is a burden and it's difficult yes but it's also it's it's for a good reason you know I mean it's like the best intention so are we done can we make Sure. Um, anything else? Any other questions? No. Clerk's report.

I'd like to say thank you. It looks like you have been incredibly busy and I I very much appreciate your work.

I I would like, you know, you track the public records, but you always have that note on there that when commissioners ask for stuff, they don't always capture it. But what do you have? Have you figured out a rule on that yet? because, you know, I do think it's a little bit it's like I'm always curious because whenever I've asked for stuff in the past, it doesn't I don't think it will happen anymore, but like they literally just get ignored. I don't get stuff and then I'm like, "Okay, fine. I'll have to make a public records request." But um I know I know for a fact other commissioners in the time I've been here ask for things sometimes go directly to staff and ask for things or go through manager and they get stuff and that never gets put on the public, you know, the thing. So I am curious. Do you keep a log of that or has the tech ever come up with some process because it seems

so the commission was discussing it and then it dropped and to my knowledge it has not become an issue anymore because the commissioners are going through the town manager. Okay. Rather than directly contacting staff now. Okay. Um so to my knowledge it hasn't become an a problem. Okay. And the reason I have kept that on there is because if the commissioners are going to the town manager, it is being processed differently. Okay. It is not going through public records. It is not going through just foya. It is not being timed. Yeah. Invoiced. That sort of thing. Um that's why I keep it on there. Yeah. That goes through the town manager now. And it's not going to staff to my knowledge.

Yeah. Just FYI, I never went to staff. I always went through the town manager. It was like town manager, CC to whoever. I just never got a response from anybody. So like which you know whatever but other people I other commissioners I I know go straight to staff even though that whole thing like you don't go to staff. I never went to staff. I went straight to the manager. I don't believe it is a problem anymore. Okay. So I I will respond. Okay. Yes. All right. In a timely manner. Okay. All right. Um okay. Are we done? Anything else? Before we uh before we adjourn that, I'd like to recommend we talk about um our a workshop opportunity coming up next month. Okay.

Um we we have a standing workshop each each month that um we took advantage of last time to uh discuss the uh the u the nonadalorum stuff. Well, I I would like to in in kind of keying off of what the the town manager has shown us here. I mean, she's in the process of the budget um um of getting obtaining inputs from her departments as to um their inputs for that. So I I was going to suggest that we could use a workshop as an opportunity for us to make, you know, comm to generate commission in inputs for for the budget stuff to to be um to to be addressed.

I think that's a great idea. Um so are you like I mean we are about to be at budget season. I think it would be we could potentially use our workshop time to basically be um like budget stuff. So we could even say okay like this I'm happy to draft um a an agenda item for that if if we can uh agree to have a um a workshop. I'm which what day would that be? Mrs. Brown first Wednesday and April 1st. I'm I'm asking Mrs. Brown. April 1st. Very how how appropriate. Thank you. I know. Um very April Fool's Day. We're gonna cover the budget. Say no more.

Um is is the We don't have any conflicts meeting wise with with that date. No. Okay. Uh I would like to make a suggestion or an idea. I I like the idea of you doing the thing, but potentially we could um we could say we're going to start using those workshops for budget, but uh um we could potentially say we could do the first one as just like budget, but then we could potentially use the next ones and say, "Okay, we'll go by department like have like a like a real department specific." So, we would maybe could take like public or like we can talk about that in the workshop what you're talking about.

Yep. Exactly. But can I um ask the attorney, don't we have to have certain notifications about discussing the budget in any of our meetings? We have to notify the public if it's a budget item. That's usually what you're if you're voting on something such as the millillage, if it's just a workshop, a preliminary workshop, normally it's just something you would just stick on the town website and say, "We're having a budget workshop

or we're starting the budget season." I think it's almost like the the meetings that various commissioners have with department heads and the manager in the past like the leadup to the budget. It's almost like let's say let's say like let's maybe do these in public ahead of time um and sort of discuss it. Other communities they do workshop where they do department by department. So it's like that depart so you're not having all the departments every time but you be like okay this time we're going to have as you lead up like what kind of things you need what are the issues challenges. So then the next month you have like another department but in the workshop.

Yeah, you could do it that way. Um sometimes um other um cities do it by themes like uh life and safety and that might include your police and your fire or anything else. Or you might pick um you know storm water management or water issues and then you would have storm water other kind of flooding issues or infrastructure. Yeah. you know, you might have bigger themes like that, too. So, it kind of gives you um, you know, maybe a three to five year look at, you know, what you would like to accomplish as opposed to just a year by year. Yeah. So, you could do it that way, too. I love having the police like a safety one, police and fire together because they kind of go together and plus, you know, money for one like

like where they can present to us here's what we need like we're going, you know, we're going to have these things and it's public and we sort of Okay. Um so we are going to keep our so basically you're going to present something that um but the idea is maybe going forward we have those workshop meetings. Let's let's plan and commit to using them and let's let's start with one. Okay. Okay. All right. And uh and we can work we can see where that takes us. So when would you need my agenda item by then? by Friday or it technically the deadline would be this Friday. Okay. Thank you. Do we need a motion to to to have this workshop? I don't think so.

But we still need to pick a to confirm the date and time works for people. So I you know typically we do these at 5 or 6 PM if people are available on that that date at that time. The way it works is we have that scheduled for a commission workshop and so we don't have to agree. Basically any commissioner can be like if you inject like I want to have a workshop and this is what it is. Um and even if there's not a quorum like you can still come like if there were two people we had we had a workshop with Marie Walker. It was just Marie View Walker. There wasn't a quorum but we existed anyway because you're not voting at a workshop and we had a full public it was about Airbnb. So how much does it cost? How much does it cost if we're going to have a How much does a workshop cost Miss Brown?

Well, how much cost the town? The main cost is if the town attorney has to be present. Yeah. Which I don't think he would for these for these. But if we Yeah. Normally not. Yeah. He's not. Yeah. So it's minim It's minimal. Yeah. It's minimal. Okay. Okay. Well, I I think it's a great idea. I'm not saying that. I just thought we need to make a motion. I was going to second it.

Yeah. I I I I appreciate the idea that it costs money, but as as you just mentioned, you and you and we're bemoning the fact that we because because of the sunshine law, it makes communication difficult. So, unfortunately, uh in order for us to um have a conversation, we have to have it in the in the in a meeting, in a public meeting. So, that's the the basically the cost of doing business for the town. Plus, I think with a brand new manager, I think when if we're able to meet and things are presented, um, even though we're not voting, she and the they may get a sense of whether we're yes on this or no, which will help her is to like maybe, you know, it seemed like there was consensus, maybe three votes, not vote. So, I am going to put this in my budget. um you weren't on the commission, but the other commissioners remember how like in that budget, but like when you get down to the wire, too, you know, and and and the manager generally needs to kind of know what to put in there. So,

and we're all good having April 1st. If I could just make a um directed uh request, 5:30. 5:30. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I mean, with me. So, instead of six, because we never have at 6, we can do it at 5:30, but I can't do five. Um Oh, yeah. No, no, no. We don't normally do the workshop. Normally they're at 6:00. Okay. So, um I think we only did that one at 5 because um there was the special meeting or whatever. Right. Right. Whatever that was. So, are we doing 5:30? So, normally the workshops are at 6. 5:30 would be great. Yeah. 5:30 actually is good. Okay. Might still be some April 1st. Okay.

Okay. I just as a commissioner report want to reiterate that I did not pull or negate the letter that I presented for tonight. I just decided not to put it up for a vote. Thank you. Okay. Motion to adjurnn. Second. All in favor say I. I. All opposed. We are journed. Thank you.