Historic Preservation Commission - Regular Meeting

There you go. Rob, can you see us? Uh, yeah. I just You just came back like five seconds ago. That's what I was referring to. All right. Wonderful. Thank you. Nope. I just lost you again now.

Oh, it's on here. I don't know what's called What?

You're back now. Good evening everybody. Welcome to uh our early or should I say late monthly meeting. Uh we're going to let Robin do the roll call. Right. Thank you, Madame Chair. Uh Secretary Hunick present. Commissioner Lin present. Commissioner Boy present. Uh, our chair Porter present. Commissioner Berllo present. Commissioner Showel present. Alternate Labat present.

Council member Leaison Mabry present. Council member liaison ramp I'm here our uh historic preservation commission advisor Scott uh youth member Raguan present commissioner bore is not with us this evening and our wildwood historic society liaison bill bong present All right, Madam Chair, we do have a floor.

Great. Well, welcome back and thank you for braving this Arctic blast and join us for tonight's meeting. We also want to welcome any Zoom attendees who are staying bundled up at home and viewing our meeting. It's my pleasure to now be serving as chair for our commission. I only hope I can do as well of a job as Jan and Allan did for us all. Hopefully you all had an enjoyable Thanksgiving with lots of good eats and time spent with friends and family. We're close to the Christmas holidays and all this snow and ice has I'm sure made a little more difficult for some of us to get around and get those holiday errands done. We've all seen a lot of progress through our efforts with this commission. I recently before the snow took a little stroll around the village green and that gathering area and the Essen log cabin are going to be a wonderful attribute to Wildwood and to Route 66 um for our big celebration next year. So we have a few things that need our attention tonight this meeting and some things we'll have to wait for a future date. Um I'd like to start by asking Mrs. Broyals to lead us in the pledge of allegiance. Oh yes.

I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America to the republic which stands one nation under God indivisible liberty justice for all. Thank you Miss Broyals. We're going to move there if you don't mind. Before we get too much further along, I did want to make some introductions this evening. Right. Uh we do have a new alternate member with us, Don Lab. Labaz, am I saying that correctly?

Love. Don Levth uh joining us. Uh so we thank him. He came out to our site visit actually uh earlier or I say late in November. Um, additionally, I would also like some members that are in the audience. They are aspiring members hopefully to be appointed at city council. Uh, we have chair and welcome.

So, with that said, I'll turn it back to you. Now, you wanted to move um what 1121 to the front of the meeting tonight. Is that what it was? Uh uh we can handle that business once we get the old Okay. All right. So, we'd like to um look over the approval, get your approval on the um minutes from the October 30th meeting. Seems like it was forever ago. Um so, if anybody doesn't have any problems with that, like to make a motion to pass those minutes. That motion, Elizabeth. All right, motion has passed. Um, if is there any public comment?

Oh, he raised his hand right now. Yes, I can. So, we have any public comment on Zoom? Robin. Uh, at this time, if any attendees would like to make public comment, please use the raise hand. Are there any a madam chair? I don't see.

All right. So, do we have um some new updates from the Wild Historical Society, Jill? Uh, our open house, which is our holiday open house, is on Sunday, uh, December 14th, 1:00 to 4. We invite everybody. We always have lots of goodies, and I'll be giving non-stop tours of the museum. So, uh, I don't cook, somebody else does. And, uh, but there's always munchies and lots of good stuff to eat. uh just a generic comment is 2025 has been a year of extremes for the historical society. We've had super highs and achievements and some larger losses. Uh the historical society is still adjusting and attempting to find a new productive normal to that. Uh we have some targets and goals for 2026. So that I wanted to let the commission know about those. in the museum. Uh we have those panel theformational panels and we are going to update some of those based on information that we gained through the focus groups this summer and through the research performed in conjunction with the uh National Park Service National Underground Railroad Network to Freedom project and the National Park Service Network to the other Freedom to uh network to freedom project. Um, we're going to finish some other panels, including the burial wall, and uh edit some of them and start completing a couple of the other bays that have never been really addressed. Uh, in the meeting hall, our biggest thing that we're going to do is we're going to create an honor wall on the front wall. So, we're just as you all project onto

the uh your front wall, we do the same in in our meeting hall. So, the honor wall will be to the left of where any screen viewing will be and the top will be the uh an abbreviated version of our mission statement. And then in the very core will be the plaque that honors the people who gave the extra money for us to buy the property, the Henen property, because without them, we wouldn't be doing any of the things that we've done for the last 15 years or so. And then around that, all the other things that have been either locally recognized or nationally recognized. So, we have a lot of those wonderful things and nobody knows about them. So, we figured we should put those out there. Uh, in 2026, the the extra panels that are in the meeting hall are Route 66 uh oriented. And so, that's a lot of fun for this year. And in the future, new panels will be generated for each of our historic towns, and they'll be displayed along with special event kind of uh things. Now, the issue for some of this stuff to happen is that to get all of this to uh physically to happen, I need people who are younger, stronger backs, and have shoulders that work to move furniture and things like that. So, if any of you know of any older teenagers or a group of of people who want to ship in, it will take more than just one guy. Uh, we have some things that need to get moved around. So, I'm just throwing that out there. If anybody knows a youth group that wants some some certified hours, I'm willing to sign off on almost anything. So, that that's it for now. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, we're going to move on to old business. Oh, and by the way, last time I went to your open house, it was awesome and the food was great. So, I recommend it, especially if you've never been there. So under old business, our first is the historic preseration plan update. This is our review of the second draft. Madame chair, uh the department would respectfully request that we actually move to the front of the agenda um item B under review of proposed zoning plat site development plans and demolition requests. Uh this is uh regarding action and commission recommendation on variance requests that will be heard by the city board of adjustment on Thursday, December 18th, 2025 for a subject property located at 1128 Highway 109 Street. Um somebody would like and make a motion to move that further up on the agenda. Make a motion.

Thank you. Second. Thank you. Um, so do we have someone to speak about it? All in favor of the motion.

I pass. So we have someone here to speak on this variance request. Oh, okay. And madame chair, while Miss Keefe gets the slides ready, we do have representatives from rep. We have the property owners here as well as I believe a representative of the company that will provide the out building. All right, Madame Chair, members of this commission, uh we have a couple variance requests uh for a subject property located at 11 uh 28 Highway 109 that will be heard at the board of adjustment on December 18th, 2025. Uh just for your reference, uh this property is located off Highway 109, uh to the north, uh just south of Blum Farm Road and uh Suzanne Ridge, um and just north of Garden Valley Drive. Uh the reason that you are hearing about this uh about these variance requests is because uh the single family dwelling upon the property uh was built in circa 1918 uh which makes it over 75 years in age. And as you can see on the screen before you, it has been surveyed uh by the city and included in its historic uh building uh inventory. Uh it the single family dwelling is a

twostory frame house uh with modern siding and it sits on a lot that is 1.82 acres in size. Uh there is an existing open metal pole barn that was built in 1976 upon the property. Uh the owner does plan to demolish uh that uh structure due to some tornado damage and replace it with a larger out building of a similar type. However, this new structure uh will be set back 12 feet uh from where the present structure is currently located uh in lie of the 30 ft that is required by the non- urban residence district. And it is planned to be uh 2,816 square ft in area and 14 ft high with a 56 uh 56 ft wraparound cedar porch. It's made of steel, white in color with a black roof. And uh the reason uh its size is significant is because uh in the non- urban residents uh district, an accessory structure uh on a lot of this size can only be uh 1.5% of the overall lot area. Um, in this case, uh, we're looking at a a substantially larger size at 3.6%. Um, I believe. Uh, so both of these, uh, requests will need to be heard, uh, by the board of adjustment, uh, per the size of the structure and per the placement of upon, uh, the property. Uh here you see before you a site plan uh with the uh proposed garage. Uh this structure here is the existing garage. Uh the proposed structure will be set

back uh 12 ft uh for where the existing structure is. Um this is the historic dwelling on the property. Um, and my understanding is, uh, that the owners currently use the backyard area, uh, for for play base, bonfires, and some other things that that we saw when we were out at the property. Uh, this is a rendering that was supplied by the builder of of the garage. uh it I would not say it's to scale and it's certainly not in the appropriate placement. So all it can really do is is show you uh which elevation we'd be looking at uh in the context of the dwelling. This is uh to the rear of that same structure. Uh these are the elevations of the proposed building. Uh so here you can see uh this this would be the front elevation we'd be looking at from Highway 109. Um this is uh one of the sidewall elevations. Uh this is the rear elevation and then this is the other side of it. Uh this is the floor plan of the structure. Uh I did acquire more manufacturer information upon this commission's request. Uh Blundier Builders uh is a custom postframe construction company with 25 years of industry experience and they are responsible for the building. Um and I have uh a number of information up on this slide if you'd like to

peruse. Uh they are a seasoned contractor. where they perform a wide range of services including drafting, design, site work, logistics, foundations, and carpentry metal work. Um, and they have 180 employees. Uh, this is the front of the dwelling. Uh, we're looking east. Uh, this is the side of the dwelling as we look north. Uh this is uh the other uh this is the rear of the dwelling as we look west and uh this is the other side of the dwelling as we look south. Uh this is the existing garage structure. and its elevations. Uh this is the neighboring dwelling to the property to the south. Uh this is the backyard area that's currently being used by the petitioners. Uh so this commission did perform a site visit on November 21st of this year. Uh and we did have quorum. Uh however, no decisions were were made. The group did decide to table the discussion until this meeting. Um however, it was discussed by the group that the building should be white with a black roof uh to match the existing house. It was discussed that the window on the front elevation of the building should be increased in height to match the windows of the dwelling. It was discussed that trim around the

windows and doors would be a cost-effective method of improving the building's appearance. And furthermore, it was requested to have a rendering of the new garage and um to have the and to have more information about who manufactured the building which was provided. Uh the reason we're here this evening is because uh the department is requesting comments, suggestions, and recommendations from the historic preservation commission. Uh this commission does have authority um to review any uh requests that could potentially impact a historic dwelling, which in this case we have uh the proposed garage going right next door to the historic dwelling. Uh so we're requesting that you provide your comments, suggestions, and recommendations uh to the board of adjustment, which the department will then draft into a memorandum um share with you for approval and then submit to the board for its review on December 18th. Um the board of adjustment will ultimately have the decision-making authority in this case. Uh however they are um under that authority they do have the ability to add conditions to their approvals and one of those conditions could be to send the building back uh to this commission for further review and approval. So um so this process does does give you a substantial say in this matter. Um, at this time I'll close our presentation and open it up to any questions of staff u before we um also uh ask the applicants if they would like to say anything. question. Miss Keith, would it

miss Keith? Would it benefit I just a stray errant thought. Would it benefit the process and the flow of perspective to have the petitioner provide their presentation first or any additional detail um that isn't captured by the drawings and then once we had the benefit and advantage of having them provide their presentation with the detail, the orientation perspective, the insights, then we'd be better armed with questions in addition to what you presented. So it's it's two sides instead of having benefit of only yours. Is that a is that a Robert's rules of order violation?

Just typically we allow for staff questions in case there's something immediately that needs to be clarified, but then we come back and have a full discussion after the petitioners present. We got two chances at it then. That's good. Yes, you do. All right. Well, if there are no questions, I will go ahead and turn it over to the petitioners if they would like to present at this time.

My name is Dakota Long Necker on behalf of Blumir Builders and uh the Acman family. Um, the reason for this building is to tear down the old storage detached garage that's currently there in place. Um, and provide some more storage and kind of upgrade that property just a little bit. But, um, we can certainly, you know, move up that window in the front, place that in reference to wherever you want that, you know, in accordance to the house. Um, as far as trimming out the window, there's a few options that we have. Um we're not limited to anything, but we can, you know, entertain um jaying out the window differently, providing a J trim that is bigger that maybe matches um the nail flange windows on the house. Um whatever your recommendations would be, we'd be happy to to accommodate that. Um the windows that are planned uh for this building, they are an easy V. They're meant for post frame buildings. Um, it has a snap trim that goes on the sides of the window with a J above and below. Um, it does look nice. Um, obviously it's weathertight, but if we wanted to change that to something similar to what's on the house currently, uh, we could do a nail flange and then do a J channel around that would maybe, uh, be roughly the same size of what's on the house. So, if that's something that you would like to entertain, you know, we can definitely get a mockup, turn that in so you guys can can look at that for and if you have any other recommendations, I would I would be open to whatever. So, with that said, I do have the neighbor who owns the property behind and to the

uh the neighboring property to the south, um, Mr. Brian here. he has been on board with it. We have letters turned in that, you know, he's he thinks that tearing down that old shed would be a a great addition to the property and to the neighboring neighborhood. That said, that's all I have this evening. Thank you.

All right. Thank you. Um, I was out of town and was unable to attend the site visit, but the only thing I could just roughly see is is uh requesting that the sighting be a similar match in like direction or whatever, like if it's vertical or horizontal or whatever to match the the existing structure so it blend in better. That would be the only thing I could really see other than the other changes you're talking about making. Anybody else have any more comments on that? Now, I guess if if I may, I don't know if everybody saw the memo I put together on this. U you know, it's my feeling. I I I would not recommend it. Uh I think I do not believe it really benefits the it's detrimental to the historical residents and I feel it's it's too big for the site and too close to the house. Also I there was talk about being white to match the house. I think it should probably be more of a barn color and I had suggested a uh siding a metal siding which is a uh board and batten appearance which you can get in it's faux wood grain. It's not a but it would I think be more of a barn appearance and if could be moved further back be smaller further away from the house. That's that would be my recommendation. But uh

it does appear to be very like almost too close to the house. That's detrimental to the value of the house location the historical value of the house that that's my feeling on it. So but it's up to the commission. Um he's referred me. Yes, you can step up. Um,

as far as matching the house, the sophet fascia would be the same color as the house. White siding, definitely black roof, soft fasia match. So, that's all good. Um, the house, it is circa 1918. There are two additions to it. One is 70 years old. The front edition was built in 55. The back edition, I'm not sure when it was built. So the only thing circa 1918 is the twotory main part of the house and that location where you have it planned for is the only location that we were talking about moving it back 15 ft. Is that right? We can move it back 15. We can move it back potentially 20 ft. Right. Yeah. Our main concern was the side, you know, the variance to the side property.

Sure. Mr. Johnson's property. I did want to address it. You bring up a good point. I'm Cassie, wife of Jared. Um, so we would match the board in Batten, which I think it's hard to see in that drawing, but if you were out at the house, um, we did have samples, but I don't know if you were able to. I was on there already. Yeah.

But as a resident, I've been there 18 years in that home since I married my husband. And you've been there 24. So, as a resident living there, I I just wanted to say because um of your concern it being too large. There is not an attic, there is not um a basement, it is a cellar. So, storage and just the accommodations to that are very limited. And so, this addition would help, you know, the residents living there and being comfortable and having the amenities that we need. Because like right now if I have paint or something it goes into my laundry room and not you know into a garage or somewhere safe. So from that perspective it is very limited for um you know a family of four. But also in the drawing there was a small shed I would say a 10 by 10.

There was a a 20 by 14. I'm really bad at that the tornado actually took out. Um and there's another 10x10 shed that would be gone. So yes this building's bigger. We've already lost the 20 x 14. The 10 x 10 would be gone. So, we would take that out and use that. It's currently full with storage from not having a basement. That would be gone, too. So, that would allow, you know, additional storage and there would be less buildings on the property.

Are you turned on? I'd like to offer just what the field tour provided and that's for both the petitioners benefit and benefit of um the other uh members up here on the DAS the the really climbing on with Mr. Scott. Uh, and just as a the leazison from the council, uh, I can offer that the construction methods and the materials look really first rate. That that that checked off that first five boxes of the 10 that you usually do on a project. the the scale of this structure um overpowers the the original house. It's it um it just it's not I'm not trying to sound like I think it's monstrous, but it's just out of scale. And the fact that it's so close to the house has now been made more evident to me just just now with benefit of the owner's comment that they're using it as ancillary u service to the house not just to house and feed their RV or their tractors or whatever else they're doing. So every foot that we're asking them to step out to get to that that industrial pre-engineered metal building that is it's just it's just impending. Um and that was the comments that really reinforced and and built upon themselves. I think the neighboring resident might have caught those insights from us. Uh the need for

an easement is borne by the fact that the structure is so close to the house that it can't go any further north or it'll hit the house. And the need for the easement to the south um uh is no more when the structure is pushed further back to the east further away to the what's the backyard where the bonfires and the kids play and that adds foots steps getting to this to do the wash and to store booze and sundries. Um the the the profile um kept confounding me cuz I kept hearing I kept seeing the drawing. If you could pull up uh Miss Keef drawing page eight. There was a there was a graphic rendering of this project on page one. Start at page one first if we can on the packet of uh drawings from uh Bluni Blunier Bluni building. Looking at page one gave me the mindset that oh we're looking at what we're looking at and that's from what the people on the highway will see. It wasn't identified as any as which uh edifice it was going to be. It turned out that that's the one that's pointed to the to the back that nobody's going to see. But the one that we do see then without taking the time to have carefully found where the north error was on all the plan views, we go to page eight and we find out that page eight shows that no, the the attractive the attractive graphic rendering showing a sort of the wraparound porch that's supposed to be on the right front corner as you're looking from the highway. That's actually in the back of the

building. And what we're presented with is what's called end wall two elevation. And that canopy that's on the left, it's not really on the left of the front, it's on the left of the back. And however long this is, it's some 30 or 40t away. So sure enough, it's on the left side of the building, but it's it's on the back corner of the building. So having just seen the drawings uh that first time, you look at the page number nine and you see that the reason that the easement to the south has to be 12 ft and not 30. is because if you move it if you move the the entire structure further north, it's directly behind the house, which which looks like it's cramped on the property itself. I think that's a good reason why there's an ordinance that you need 3 and 12% uh that you need 1 and a.5% limit and not the 3 and 12% that the size of this is uh which is requiring the 12T easement which if it moved north 30 ft uh you'd erase that requirement that need it seemed that the most obvious solution for such a large structure overpowering the size of the house in the first place and on that size thought I didn't know it was only one and a fraction acres. Uh the first thing I saw before I ever went to the property is that thing needs to be moved further back behind the house and masked. I even recommended a line of narw spruces to hide it because it's just nothing but a detracting feature to the her the heritage perspective of that house. I've kept the floor a long time now. So I I'm just trying to gather the remarks that I've heard made by the different representatives that were a quorum, but

we all decided it'd be better for the whole body to pick up the line of discussion. So the the report that Mr. Scott provided really strikes for those um to to take to mind. Um the if if anything I could labor the point to go back to page eight that that end wall two elevation on the right that needs to go in the back that looks like that really does look like something not that industrial parks with prefabricated pre-engineered metal buildings is bad but the fact that I kept thinking end wall one elevation was the one that we were going to be presented with u as we enter as we see the property as we go buy the property as as that now becomes a complement to the to the lines and the even the additions of the original house now you've got gables on that thing and you're you're not looking at just end wall two elevation and that left tangent so far away you're never going to even see it now if the whole building's turned 180 um and move further to the back of the property. You don't need you you you can put it where it it's 30 ft away from the property to the south. So, it just seems a lot of inner working parts. It wouldn't cost any more except for the added pavement that it takes to get from where the garage doors were going to be to further back to the property where you have to pave to get to it. Now, um, and you pull the RV in from either side, uh, from either end, u pull it in and out the same way. Um, so those just the thoughts that were bannered back and forth on how to make how to make a solution of what seems like an overscaleed,

too non-residential looking structure that's just so large that it it slaps you in the it's the only thing you see when you drive by. The seal fear I think we we we felt in the field that hidden um it wouldn't detract from the otherwise valid perspective of having a uh this the heritage site as it is currently.

That's probably a whole lot of words more said than what you wrote. But I think I'm trying to capture the all the all the angles shooting at each other to to try and make this not go. but then being able to um with just about as much money then turn it around and and take the aesthetics aspects of it and now you don't need a board of adjustment uh reszoning. You can keep it 30t away from the next property. Um so that's really all appreciate the appreciate the floor as well. Yeah, thank you Madame Chair. Uh, Council Member Rambo has had his hand up for quite a while. And also, the neighbor would like to speak as well. Rob,

uh, I'm trying to turn on my Okay. Can you Can y'all hear me? Can y'all hear me? Little bit. Okay. I'm sorry. Um, uh, is that better? No. Oh, dang. There we go. We got you.

Okay. All right. Well, I raised my pad up. I should be on my computer, but I'm not. So, I'm sorry. And I've also got the camera on, but you may not be able to see me, but um you're so consider yourselves lucky. But um the um I agree with a lot of of what's been said. This thing is huge, particularly. It's tall, but on the other hand, um as was pointed out in the tour, it's quite far from 109, and I don't think it's imposing from 109. And if the folks on either side can live with the sidewall elevations, um it's it's the points are valid concerning storage and so on and so forth because we want to make it that entire home as livable as possible. And so I'm okay with it if the folks behind are okay with it. But I a lot of the stuff we've been talking about I don't think is in our purview anyway. And um I was just kind of hoping to focus on the architectural aspects. And the only the only comment that I have on any of those uh that hasn't already been said is the fact that we listed Robin listed initially that we uh suggested white siding and black trim and a black roof. And I think the best thing that these folks could possibly do for themselves is have a a white roof or a light colored roof because the energy efficiency uh gain um from that is extreme especially in a big um maybe not that well insulated uh poleb barn. And so that's my suggestion just to the owners. But, um, other than that, I think, um, I think they're, uh, they're trying to do, you know, what we've asked them to do and make it a little look a little bit more like it belongs there. Uh, I'm of two minds on on Mr. Scott's suggestion to make it look like a barn. That would be absolutely great if we could, but, um, folks have discretion in

terms of, you know, what color they want their buildings to be, uh, for the most part. So, um, that that's all I had was that roof. suggestion. Thanks. All right. Thank you, Rob. We have the neighbor would like to speak.

Hi, I'm Brian Johnson. I own the property to the rear and to the side of Jared's and Cassy's house. And uh I want to thank everyone that came out that one day. We had a we had a nice little visit and talked about a lot of stuff. But uh one thing that I want to point out is this is not considered a large building by any stretch of the imagination. I know because I own large buildings and this is not large. The other thing that we seem to keep forgetting is where they're going to build this. There is an existing metal building. It is over the threshold of the 1.5% already and it's already sitting very close to my property. They're suggesting to move it back from the existing location 12 feet and which also then moves it further away from my property line. But if we make this crazy, then it becomes cost prohibitive. And then we're sitting looking at an older, ugly, dilapitated building. And I'd much rather look at a brand new building that matches everything instead of this old broken down thing that got hit by a tornado. So, you know, I and you know, the last Rob Rob, you took a lot of the words out of my mouth and I don't think that anyone should be telling homeowners what color to make stuff. I think that's just ridiculous. And uh this is a garage that is going next to a house that has been modified many times. There is nothing that represents 1918 in that entire house. I know. I've been in there several times and if you think it's an old, you know, restored house, it's not. There's there's nothing in there. It's all completely modern and it's there's it's been added on to several times. And

so when we talk about a, you know, a historic home, this is not it. And as a matter of fact, I would suggest that it gets removed from the historic list because it it doesn't even meet the definition of it. Thank you. All right, Steve.

So, I'm going to echo a lot of what's been said to um and and remind everyone the focus here is to look at the historic character of the house and whether this garage changes that. Um I'm not one of the couple of architects we have here. Um they've got the specialty there, but as been said, the house has already been modified. To me, when I look at that house, it's older, but it doesn't seem like it's a historic house. It's got modern updates. It looks like it's got modern updates and um you know, so I don't think there's any historic character that's being altered and that's really our focus. Not the placement and how close it is. And you know, the board of adjustments is going to have to answer those questions and and that's what they're going to have to convince them about the placement. Um I don't think the placement really affects the historic character either. So I don't know if we're overly concerned. I agree with what Rob said. It's far enough away from the road. Um, I think a new building's going to look a heck of a lot better than what's there now. So, uh, I don't have any issue with it. I don't see any impact on the historic character of this house, which really is only on the list because of when it was built. So, that's all if I may.

Sure.

Um, yeah, I think uh, as Mr. Mayberry Barry pointed out the size of the building. The the lot is already a subsiz lot that was grandfathered in when the zoning went into effect. And as you can see, if you look at the site plan, the new building is bigger than the house. And I feel it's uh looking at on the site, it's too big for the site. And that's fits more in with not our responsibility as a commission, but or the uh planning, the zoning of the property that it's really too big for the site. That would be my only feeling. And uh I would say the existing size of the build of the existing building, you know, they would want to build one that size. Okay, that's there. It's not changing anything. It's not making anything worse. But this the fact that this building is so big on a small site, I don't think it goes along with the intent of the uh zoning for this property. So that that probably is not within the purview of this commission, but that's my feeling on the uh the actual planning of the the the zoning of the property. Joe, is there restrictions on how how much bigger this building can be than

the one that's presently getting ready to be tore down or

advertisement that Miss Keys prepared for our board of adjustment addresses the requirement in the non-urban resident district relative to the size of out buildings on a property less than five acres in size. An up building can be 1.5% of that lot size. And in this case, it's about I I think uh 1,200 square ft or something like that. Um and this particular building is about 3,200 square ft. The department revised the advertisement that you all see saw at the site visit because there is a covered porch and it's attached to the building that's part of the footprint and so that's included in it now as well. Um, yeah. So, again, we've got about 3,250 square feet of size with the covered porch included as part of the footprint, and it's about 1,200 square ft, which is allowed. Um, the maximum size before you need a simplified conditional use permit is just 24 square ft more than what it is being proposed. It's relative to our regulations. It's a large building and that's why the board of adjustment needs to consider it. I would encourage you all to give your opinions to help Miss Keefe and I when we prepare our recommendation report and I know the board of adjustment members, those five volunteers will appreciate it as well. And I know you've already come up with a lot of drawings. And I didn't know if there's a possibility of coming up with some drawings that are just a tad smaller to satisfy some some feelings around here or maybe go without the covered porch just to put some alternate drawings together. I don't know if that's even a possibility, but that might be something to review.

Any other comments? that in our realm. I'm just it's a it's just a an idea to try to, you know, satisfy some concerns. Yeah. Yeah. My biggest thing was that Mr. Johnson is okay with what they're doing. It's it's the residents around there that are the ones that are going to be affected. So, um and I'm a mom of in an old farmhouse and we have a barn with our Christmas Halloween everything stored in there. So, I have heart for that what you're saying. All right. If there's not any more comments, Madam Chair, I still see a raised hand for Council Member Rambo. I don't know if it's up from previous or if he wants to talk again.

Rob, you want to speak again? Uh, no. I just forgot to un raise my hand. Sorry. All right. Thank you. Oh, what? Oh, Mr. Scott.

Sorry. Let me jump in again. Um, the fact that the zoning ordinance set these square footages was based on good planning and it was accepted by the city, approved, has been enforced. The fact that if you just go changing that and saying, "Oh, well, nobody cares. Let them build it bigger. that's then they lose all the value that was put into the original zoning plan for the city and if we feel that that zoning plan was proper then and proper now or if it's not then we should change it. So I think it it basically goes against the rules that we've all approved of. So that's that's my feeling on it.

Oh yes. Yes. That's what this is. I know. And it's based on we should never we should never change what's written in the sir. Would you mind coming up to the microphone so people on Zoom can hear you? Okay. Go ahead. You have to have the ability to have a variance to any code period. There is reasons why things have to be changed and be thought about otherwise we wouldn't need this commission. We wouldn't need to be here.

So that's why we have these things and I'm going to leave this particular variance on the lot on the building size up to the commission that decides that. That's not the the purpose of this commission. Thank you. No, that's I I agree. I believe it's probably out of the juris just out of our responsibility

out of our purview but the fact that um they are variances which are usually based on a hardship or something some unusual thing like some ge site problem that you can't put the building where it is or it has to be this size for some other reason, but there's got to be reason for the variances. So that's that's my personal feeling, not my historical feeling. So should we just table this for now and then you guys uh can go do what you have to do next and then bring it back to us next time or what? Uh, madame chair, members of this commission, the next step for this is to go before the board of adjustment on December 18th. So this is the opportunity for this commission um to either come to some sort of consensus that we can summarize in a memorandum or we can just summarize all the various comments we've heard this evening uh which there have been arranged uh and just drop it into a memorandum for this group and we'll more more like but if this commission would like to take a position then Madame Chair, to kind of just summarize, we can prepare two reports relative to your discussion tonight. one that would contain a recommendation that has gained a majority of the commission members support or we'll prepare a report that basically summarizes each of your comments and that would that report would then go to

the board of adjustment for their use. So you don't have to come to a conclusion, a consensus. If you can, great. If you can't, we understand. But there'll be a a draft submitted to all of you to basically either agree to the report and the recommendation or to make sure we got your comments right. Thank you. One second question. Is this going to go before the architectural review board too or not? Mr. Hick, no. Um, single family dwellings outside town center and any accessory structures or buildings are not subject to architectural review by the city's board.

So, since we are have so many opinions here tonight, probably as you're saying the summation, the second summation you're mentioning, just send out a draft and have everybody then comment on that. Yes, Madam Chair, with your permission, if you could ask for a motion to consolidate the comments into a single report, provide that to the commission members to guarantee that we've accurately depicted that, and then have a second and a voice vote, that would be much appreciated. what Joe said. If uh somebody would like to set a motion for the all the opinions to be pied together for a draft, someone would set a motion for that.

Bob second. Second. Steve, right? It's moving. Everybody agree to that? No. Raise your hand. It's the voice. I'm sorry. voice. Yeah. Is that what you want? All in favor? Yeah. So, we're all in favor of the draft to about the comments. Anyone oppose? All right. It's passed. Yeah.

Director Bonich. Uh uh. So, as there's been a wide range of of uh insights or comments and then counter comments um you have any um asking a question, I already know the answer. You're going to be amply capable of catching all of the the point counterpoint and the variety of uh positions that have been taken, the variety of observations about the proposal that have been made. the the types, colors, materials, size, placement, purpose, all of that. Thank you. Yeah,

Mr. Mayberry, with the chair's permission, um certainly we'll be able to use the recording as well as the YouTube live stream to ensure that we capture everybody's. The trick that Miss Keefe has done very well is to summarize so that the board of adjustment doesn't necessarily spend an hour on this case when we have five other cases to consider that night as well. So the sum the sum sums summarization of your comments is what we want you to review to make sure we didn't miss a major point or points. All right. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you all.

All right. Thank you for coming in. You're welcome to stay and listen to the rest of the meeting or not. Thank you.

All right. Well, that took a little bit of our evening for that, but well points for everybody. Uh we're going to move on to old business and uh our next subject is the historic preservation plan update. Robin, did you want to go over some of that? Madame Chair, members of this commission, uh, as you may recall from the last meeting, uh, and we're probably anticipating during the month of November, uh, MIG was in the process of drafting, uh, our 70% completion milestone, which is essentially the a first full draft of the historic preservation plan for Wildwood. Uh the next step was for them to provide that plan uh to the department for its review and then we were going to forward it on to you so that we could potentially have some comments this evening. Obviously that did not happen. So I am here to provide you uh with an update. Uh but first just for the sake of some of the newer uh members in the room, I just want to give a little bit background on this historic preservation plan project. Uh this was actually originally uh recommended by the state historic preservation office uh when it came to visit Wildwood for its uh I believe it was 2023 evaluation visit. Um, one of the outcomes of that visit was they recommended that we have our own uh citywide historic preservation plan. And so ultimately this commission took that

suggestion and ran with it uh applying for uh historic preservation funds uh from the state uh to assemble such a plan. uh those funds were awarded and so uh the plan is being 60% funded by the Missouri Department of Natural Resources and the United States Department of the Interior because the federal government gives it to the state and the state administers it to us. Um so I just wanted to give you a little insight into how this plan came to be. Uh this commission did a lot of homework uh to get to this point uh in that uh everybody on the commission at that time was assigned a historic preservation plan from across the state of Missouri and asked to read it in full, summarize its uh summarize its key components um and then give some uh feedback as to what they liked, what they didn't like, and how we might fold that into our future planning effort. Um, after we received all of that feedback, uh, we were able to draft the request for propo or request for qualifications for the historic preservation plan. And, um, through that effort, we summarized all of our various plan components, which includes Wildwood's historical significance in the local, state, and national, and global context. Um, an overview of our program here in Wildwood. um the historic context uh and preservation approaches for uh our various historic areas in Wildwood, our Route 66 revitalization element, uh community outreach, engagement and partnerships, our opportunities um and challenges to our preservation work in Wildwood, our communitywide goals and objectives, priorities and

timeline for implementation, and finally our funding goals and options to obtain funding for those projects. Um so again I just discussed that process. I guess I should have put that slide first. Um so so once we put out that request uh for qualifications uh we did interview several firms um some national some local and ultimately MIG was selected after an interview process to develop the city's first citywide historic preservation plan. Uh the this commission executed several popup engagements throughout this past year including a June concert history tent engagement, our August back to school party engagement and celebrate Wildwood. Uh we also had an openhouse event on July 24th which was well attended and we held several focus groups um tapping key stakeholders on topics such as Route 66, Wildwood Historical Society um and our African um American and indigenous heritage as well as some of our our regional u partner perspectives. Um the last milestone we met was our 30% completion milestone. Uh this was submitted to the state historic preservation office uh with a plan outline, engagement summary and existing conditions report which we've all reviewed uh extensively. And now our next milestone is to meet that 70% uh completion of the plan which includes our first full draft of it. So, uh, that was just intended to bring us up to present date and also help link why you do not see that full draft before you this evening. Uh, ultimately, the department's review of uh, the full

plan draft uncovered several missing components um that were outlined in our request for qualification. So, this commission did agree that we wanted to see them. And so ultimately we uh asked MIG uh to consider refining uh their list of I believe it was 105 105 uh goals and objectives and priorities. Um we asked them to refine that list because ultimately this commission doesn't have the bandwidth to uh implement uh that number. Um and ultimately we want a clear and achievable direction for this commission's work. So we asked them to to look at that a little bit further and and we'll provide some insight as well. We also asked them to include the planning context for Wildwood um in in the form of a statement in the plan uh because we believe we have a very unique planning context when it comes to our historic preservation work. Uh we are um we are a city that is that is developing that is building uh and growing I should say. And um and that can be a challenge in terms of uh the the high uh land values here. Um in our preservation work, we're not like some of the other historic cities across across Missouri that have been there forever and have that very long history associated with their brand. Wildwood was incorporated in 1995. And we are constantly having to um uh we are constantly challenged with communicating our lawn history here in this area in the context of that because people hear Wildwood and they think new. They think there's no history here. You started in 1995. And so uh so we wanted a a planning context that puts our work in

perspective in the plan. Uh we also requested that they develop a little bit more place-based analysis. Uh we've you read the existing conditions report. We heard a lot about our existing program as it stands today, but we didn't necessarily hear a lot about the place of Wildwood and some of our key historic places and what exactly uh needs to preserve, what are some of those challenges, opportunities, threats, etc. And then finally, we just asked them to develop more of a historic context for our city um because uh right now um that was that was missing. So these were pretty substantive comments offered by the department and ultimately we felt that MIG needed a little bit more time to go back and retool um before uh handing it off to this commission's review because ultimately uh we want your input to be um to move it forward to its final final form and we need to do a little bit massaging first to get it there. So uh so this led to a revised schedule. Uh we are still looking to provide you with that 70% version or first full plan text um before your next meeting of the commission which is January 22nd. Um so we're hoping to have that version to you by January 16th. It means you will have just about one week to turn it around. So, I do hope you will make a note on your calendars that you should give yourself some extra time uh to review your packets um from January 16th to the 22nd. Uh the state historic preservation office has allowed us to extend the deadline to February 1st. Uh so we have

a little bit more time to uh get this full plan draft back to them. So, your comments will be folded into that that full plan draft um before it goes to the state. Uh so, we'll be working behind the scenes with MIG to get it where it needs to be over the next several weeks and then you'll get it in January. Um and I believe I covered these next steps. Um, again, we're we're moving things back to that February 1st marker, and that might mean moving back our virtual historic preservation openhouse that we discussed last time just a little bit. Um, it may still be held in January, but we might also be looking at early February just so that uh those who attend have an opportunity to look at a full plan draft before offering their comments um so that we're, you know, catching input at every stage. So, at this time, if you have any questions as to where we are today or why, uh, feel free to ask them, u, but I hope that brings you up to speed about where we are in this process.

Yeah, sure. Got it.

Um I I may have asked this at the last setting where deadlines goals. Of course, it might have been just been in the um highway 66, Route 66 uh um energies toward the the historic placards. But what about these dates been kicked back as much as two months? Um is there any threat or anything additional that needs to be applied in terms of effort um or resources to make certain that the city achieves some suspense date that's either state certification for something or any type of application that requires a certain deadline in order to be able to comply and conform with uh being granted some something the city's looking for from the state or the federal Are you speaking to the moratorum right now?

Oh, no. It this I'm sorry. This is just for having us able to hand a big packet of of information to some entity that's going to recognize that the city of Wildwood has got historic preservation plan and that it's been certified as a good one or or qualifies for certification along with all the other cities that have submitted their historic preservation plans as uh as qualifying for uh whatever it takes to qualify. ify for certification as a historic preservation plan for the state of Missouri. Is there no does no entity care that we're uh going to be providing them a detailed documentable um researched sufficiently historic preservation plan that that we are of meritive standing with all the other cities that are doing the same thing?

Yes, absolutely. And that is part of the review that the state historic preservation office is doing at each milestone step. So when we provide that milestone to the state historic preservation office, it is actually reviewed extensively. We they return comments to us so that we can uh bolded into the next reiteration of the plan uh for the next milestone. Um, so they are very much taking best practices as outlined by the Department of the Interior, applying them to their review and making sure that we're we're meeting all the standards that we need to meet as a city.

The Department of Interior actually gets their nose in this, huh?

Well, ultimately with us being a certified local government, it is actually a federal, state, local partnership. And so while the department of interior sets a lot of the standards that we use um criteria for you know reviewing historic buildings would be an example, the National Register of Historic Places and then the state is more of an administrative entity. So the the federal government sets those standards, the state reviews, administers, and make sure that they're enforcing that. So all of our edits and ads are not piling up to really cause a crunch to some deadline that's coming in March or April or something that is looming and isn't moved back just because we're taking extra extra steps to to improve or purify our our own plants. Nothing like that.

We're communicating with the state uh at every step so they're they're fully aware of these delays. Um ultimately we do have to complete this plan within 18 months. That's the hard deadline. So um so I will say that it does um probably give us a little bit more of crunch time at the very end of this process, but we have some built-in crunch time. So I'm not too worried about it. And given that the state has been informed at every step, um I think we're we're solid.

Thank you. Yeah. Uh you had mentioned that there was like 105 goals listed. How is that being paired down? And is that something that you're involved with so that you're sure they're making the right, you know, decisions on what what is attainable and and that type of thing? Yes, absolutely. we are going to be reviewing it and providing detailed feedback uh by mid midpoint of next week uh to MIG and then they'll be using that feedback to uh re-examine that list. Uh we did talk about a couple different ways to approach it. So they may not completely eliminate some of these suggestions that they have, but maybe fold it more into an appendicy and then you know really determine what those those core strategies are and outline those more towards the front of the plan where where they can be used. Um, so I'm not sure we're going to completely lose, you know, everything that's been suggested suggested. Uh, but we are going to refine that list for the purpose of of being able to implement it as a city.

Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Any other comments? All right. We'll move on to uh Essen Law Cabin updates. Thank you, Madam Chair. Madame Chair and members of the commission, I have more good news tonight than not. Now, it's all qualified by the weather we get over the next couple of months, but yeah, here we go. As you know, the city uh city contractor agreement was approved by city council. It was a very close vote, but there was a majority that supported it. The work on the village green site phase one has come to a point where it is unobstructed to the log cabin site which means sharet creek excavating the selected contractor will not have to compete for space for the layown area parking or any of the other items that typically go along with a project of this nature. Secondly, Chourett Creek Excavating has coordinated with Mr. Gayy who's been storing the logs for the last 10 years to bring them on site. Mr. McDonald, the primary contractor of Shereet Creek Committee will lay those out in the format necessary to build each wall in accordance with the appropriate logs and as they've been tagged by our architectural consultant pattern eyes. Um the location has actually been surveyed and staked. Um it's a little oversized, but if you go back there when you have time, um when it's slide out, you can see exactly now where the cabin's going to be placed on Village Greens. Um the footing and foundations contractor was actually out there today doing some preliminary investigations. um that will proceed forward and I think

weather permits and the materials necessary to complete the cabin are being ordered this week. So all of that is good news and I salute you all for your patience over the last 10 years to get this looked at. If there are any questions I'd be glad to ask them. Yes, director. I've got one. Yes, sir. Are they going to try and sneak in any structural concrete in in the winter?

That's a question we're um going to discuss. Miss Keefe, myself, um Carol Quigley, the architect of record and Mr. McDonald's. There's a meeting that we're scheduling to go through kind of okay, we had hoped this would be September, October start, it's now a December, January. What do we need to do to ensure that we're not sacrificing quality and longevity of the project or speed?

Temporary protection is is common, but it comes at cost obviously. Um you need you need to cure time and you need higher concrete of course. Um, just wonder if those discussions are already underway and if they're already getting some cost uh crunch or impact as a result, but I know you're already on it. So, I just wondered if it already happened or if it's in discussion.

It has not. As I say, the the process has been working through this week. Next week is a important week for us in log cabin reasssembly. We'll have that meeting. Um, I'll have some additional information thereafter. I've not done a project in a long time where there haven't been change orders. I guess I'm anticipating this. But the good news is is that when the completion of phase one of Village Green and now the unencumbered access to the cabin site, that was a $6,000 deduct. The department wasn't counting on that deduct. So, the city council approved the $288,000. You may have $6,000 for change orders if necessary. All change orders will be processed through the Historic Preservation Commission and ultimately go to city council as well. Any other comments?

Thank you.

All right. Thank you. All right. Moving on to the historic route 66 revitalization update. We've got the planning for the anniversary party and the historic marker. All right, madame chair, members of this commission, again I'm just going to give a little bit of background for the benefit of some of the newer members here this evening or newer aspiring members. uh Route 66 and its revitalization uh has become a pretty large priority for this commission um particularly since 2022 uh when we had a very large community event in partnership with Living Word Church and Big Chief Roadhouse um where we gave a a presentation to the community about Route 66 um and the importance of its revitalization and then followed that with a happy hour and talked to our community um about that. Following uh that effort, we formed a student Route 66 task force. Uh Commissioner Raggy Roman was a part of that uh effort uh which consisted of high school and middle school students representing five different area schools in Wildwood. Um, and these students helped not only plan and design a Route 66 roadside park, but also led several community events, uh, such as a drive-in movie night production of cars, um, and also a Route 66 scavenger hunt and also helped us film a 30 minute, uh, selfie tour video of our Route 66 historic corridor, uh, which is, uh, still being utilized today for education purposes. So, we accomplished quite a bit with their help and it gave a lot of momentum to our Route 66 efforts and we've been um really highlighting it in some of our

history tent activities particularly at the back to school party um and uh continue to do uh Route 66 events uh such as planning for next year's 100th anniversary. Uh so I do want to give you some updates to activities taking place for the 100th anniversary. And unfortunately some of these updates aren't as good as I would love to uh share with you. Um, but as you know, uh, city council, uh, has been reviewing, uh, the budget for next year and, um, and that's been a little bit of a tough discussion, uh, that has resulted in some, uh, cutbacks to certain items. And so uh for now uh I would just like to mention that our Route 66 grant program while this commission should still um further define the program and um including the criteria and objectives of it uh it has been delayed for a year due to budgetary concerns.

Um we are still working on a city wayfinding signage program for Route 66. We've completed banners along Old Manchester Road highlighting Route 66. So, those banners will be up in celebration uh next year. Uh and they've they've been up this year in in anticipation of it as well. Uh we are highlighting Route 66 in the city's historic preservation plan. Wildwood Historical Society has been an amazing partner in developing a Route 66 themed calendar for the 100th anniversary. And I will say that people have been coming in to to get that like hot cakes at city hall. So um yes, so that has a lot of information uh good information for the community. Uh we're working on a Route 66 historic marker which we'll talk about in a minute. And then we're planning several Route 66 events. We were able to keep most of our events, but we did have to k uh we did have to cut our bunion run. Um it was just another big event that uh unfortunately if we wanted to go all in on some of all the other events that we were going to do and do them well, we couldn't just do everything. We would have been a little spread too thin budget-wise. So, we cut the Bunion Run in service to making all of the other events that we're planning a huge success. And that would include a drive-in movie with the cities of Eureka and Pacific. Uh we're going to show Cars 2 at the back to school party next year. Uh we're going to do a Route 66 scavenger hunt again during the month of April. Uh we'll refine it a little bit from the first time around and make it a success. Uh we're going to have a Route 66 themed concert at one of our Music on Main uh concerts. Uh Joe Sderman has agreed to come to Wildwood and do a presentation. U maybe

we can do a trivia night at the same time. Um so we're still in the works planning that with him. Um we're going to work with our business community to do a Route 66 cruise event maybe on a monthly basis during the nice months. Um, and then I already mentioned the scavenger hunt. So, the complete list of those events uh will be listed on the city website with links of them uh in the Route 66 magazine special edition that will be coming out next year. So, that's where we are with with activities. Any questions um about that? Okay. Uh well, I'm excited to announce that we did make progress towards our Route 66 magazine effort. Um again, uh this for for the 100th anniversary next year, the cities of Wildwood, Eureka, and Pacific did team up with Leader Publications to do a special edition magazine uh for our area. Uh, Leader Publications has agreed to print 3,000 copies of this magazine, which will be distributed across the state of Missouri and up Interstate 55 towards Chicago. The magazine will be available in digital format as well, and we're we can post it on the city website um or perhaps on the app uh that Commissioner Raggie Ramen developed. Um, and the magazine is anticipated to be a keepsake, something that people actually want to hold on to past the anniversary. It should contain a lot of good content um about Route 66 um in addition to advertising some of our events that we plan to hold as a city uh for next year. Uh we did agree to purchase uh advertising uh within the publication. And so what you see before

you and with and they're in your packets this evening as well um are the outcome of that effort. Uh so we made sure to highlight the city of Wildwood and hopefully convince people that they wanted to come visit our Route 66. We have our Route 66 events link and we have a QR code that leads to the virtual tour of Wildwoods uh Route 66 as well. So that's our full page advertisement and then uh we have that one-third page uh for the Wildwood Historical Society uh which will also direct people to uh their website as well and encourages them to become members and support the museum's mission. Uh we also mentioned that they do have the original path of the mother road running back behind them as well. So, um, so hopefully we all agree that, uh, these are exciting. This is exciting content to have in the magazine and hopefully there will be a lot of eyes on it, uh, next year. Any questions about that?

No, it's great. Okay.

All right. Finally, uh we have been working on a historic marker for Route 66. And uh so on the front of the marker, we're anticipating having the verbiage uh before you. Um and on the back of the marker, we're going to have a map of our historic corridor that highlights the four historic communities and some of its largest landmarks such as the National Registered uh Big Chief Roadhouse. And this marker will actually be hosted by Big Chief Roadhouse uh once it's been developed. However, uh we've had a little bit of delay in this marker's development this year uh because we had some questions about who owned the original copyright to our uh Wildwood Historic Community Marker design. And we wanted to explore uh some potentially new firms for uh its design and fabrication. So ultimately we decided that since we've already highlighted each of our historic communities and that could be essentially one thing now maybe we could have a feature marker um that highlights specific um historic aspects of the city or or landmarks. So we designed a new marker and uh Arch Engraving gave us a cost estimate uh for what you see before you on the screen. This was draft two uh as uh decided by this commission at the last meeting. It is a little bit different in that they I guess they had to cut off the bottom curve in order to make it work for the mounting system. uh we have three blade shop shape options uh for for this component here and then it will be on a uh painted or galvanized post.

Um in order to have a double-sided marker uh the cost coded was 10,311 um as the total cost. If we wanted to do a single side marker, it would be less um let's see, single-sided, it would be $4,825,000. Compare that to in graphics for the original design of the marker, and their cost is $15,258. So, uh there is a substantial savings here um if we decide to go with a a redesign. So at this time the department would respectfully um ask you for your feedback um based on this new information.

Are you wanting us to uh have some kind of a vote on the uh blade shape options or how are you choosing that?

Uh I think first we would want to settle on uh on which path what overall direction we want to go with the marker. Do we want a new design with arch engraving? Um, and you know, go ahead and abandon and graphics um and the the present design of the marker. Um, and then if you want to wrap things like the blade shape options into a motion or do a separate motion, we can handle that um after after the larger discussion. And and what is the monetary difference between going with the original one versus switching all up to this whole different one, the second draft?

Well, it looks like it's approximately $5,000 difference, right? So, we have some feedback from anybody on what their feelings are about have incurring that much more of an expense or that much little bit of a change or what's the thought about a two-sided marker? Are any of the other historical markers that we have in Wildwood two-sided for all the little communities? Not all, but some.

Okay. I guess I've never noticed those. we we're having people see it really primarily from one side. So I don't know why we would need two sides for that. Um and it's a substantial cost savings. I would I would agree with that.

In those instances, Mr. Larson, where we did two sides of the historic community markers, it's generally where we people had to pull off and park. So they had to walk up to the sign and that gave them the opportunity to see both sides. Okay. Well, I know that we talked about putting it at um Big Chief. I always felt it was probably more a more neutral location, not with one landmark would be preferred, but um the park's not ready. I get that. So, if it was at the park, it might make sense to have both sides because you'd have people in the park and also on the road. So, but as it stands now, I don't know. Um I would be in favor of just the one side um if if it's a cost issue. And I like the new design here. Do I don't know if you have the original design handy

uh this evening. I do not, but I can pull it up if you would like to see it. So, do we want to place a motion on first on whether it's one-sided or two-sided? Certainly. Okay. Sure. The question is like how much verbiage should do we put on? Do we need two sides? Well, ultimately with the Route 66 uh historic marker, we were looking at putting the verbiage on one side and doing a map on the other so that people understood the context of of the corridor that there are four historic communities and where Big Chief Roadhouse is. Um so it's it's it was to orient.

I think the big chief people would would get out look at their parking, right? Mhm. Exa exactly where was it you proposing to put it at Big Chief? Would it be at that property that's just to the west of them in the green space between the sidewalk and the curb? Is that uh Big Chief agreed to host it so it actually be in front of Big Chief? Big Chief. So would it would be fairly accessible on both sides that people correct could walk around it. I think

and we had some previous conversation about putting it at the park if the if and when the park ever comes to fruition because me that makes sense as well, you know, but um that was a whole conversation itself. Wow.

The fact that it's cheaper than the our old two-sided sign I think is looks pretty good to me. the the whole um we're getting to the point I think where it needs to be the staff's um prioritization of whether they're going to go with a a placard that you're intended to see as you drive by and you see that there's print on it and you decide I'd better pull off and read that or in this case it's the other. So the motion wouldn't be are we going to go with one or we going to go with two. It's uh we're going to do both upon occasion upon application. And what's most fitting a two-sided is nearly mandatory in this instance where you want to put a a map of 66 on the back so that the same people reading it in the front can turn around and see additional reference uh points. And then there's going to be occasions where um if you're driving along at 35 miles an hour as as I do several of these old town markers, Westland Acres and and Orville, um you want to know that that as you're driving by at 25 or 35 miles an hour, you're seeing the sign and saying, "There's something to read there. I better pull off this driveway or this gas station and go back and read that." So it would seem to me that that's not a decision we can blanket for every different permutation of occasions. Um just a way to free up more leeway for the city to make uh prudent decisions. And not all of them are going to be the more expensive two sides for an extra what was it? An extra thousand five $5,000.

Uh I thought that the I thought that the this design was going to be $7,000. Oh, and then they then the two side. So, so if we're going with the 24 by 30 singlesided with a post, it would be 4,000 25 and then double-sided,000 and then it's end graphics. It's end graphics. It's 50% higher than even the 10,000. Correct.

Okay, got it. Yeah. So, u it would seem to me the motion would be for approving the design and um if there's any other is there any other committee or commission or ad hoc or anything that has purview over helping the staff decide whether this time it should be one side or this time it should be two side. Is there anyone else involved besides us or should every one of these signs that come come through get a get a handwave vote motion and a vote on us? Okay. This one's good for two. Well, this one's good for one.

Generally, that detail is decided by this commission and recommended forward. Uh, I mean, ultimately, city council does have an opportunity to look at what is proposed and make an action if it so desires, but um but at that level, generally, this commission is the one that that develops that that decision.

I wouldn't mind each one coming. I wouldn't mind each one coming before the commission. Then if it gives this if it gives staff an opportunity to to optimize the impact between one or two each given time. If we approve two all the time, there's no reason not to spend or not to have two all the time. And I don't think we need to have two all the time, but by the same token, we need more than one sometime. Ju just to be clear in the case of the Route 66 historic marker, this commission had several meetings where that detail was discussed where we provided content to the commission and decisions were made all along the way. So with every historic marker, we typically spend at least I would say at least 3 months of that back and forth process with this commission uh before it before something gets decided on and we start engaging the public with it. and uh taking it to city council for final action too.

Okay. From the historic standpoint, so I don't have a vote in any of this stuff, but I think this is so important and we're going to have a lot of people, crazy Route 66 people come through. And if we can provide the two-sided with the map on the back so that it gives not only the context but that they look and realize where the path was because Dave has a cousin who came over and did motorcycles from Germany. He came over from Germany and did the whole route 66 from Chicago to wherever he ended up. And so he wanted to know where it was in Wildwood. Where was the path and where was this? And so this year is this coming year is going to be really exciting for all of us I think. Um and uh the two-sided I think would serve everyone really well and and let people know who aren't familiar with the area exactly where everything is. I think that so it doesn't get lost in the they get stuck on 100 then they lose going on what the locals call old Manchester. So I think that's that would be my feedback that I can't vote on. I do think one thing or sorry uh is that the sign, you know, it's going to be there, right? It's it's permanent. It's going to be there a long time. So, I I mean, I think being two-sided if you have the budget for that would be the best thing to do. It's my two cents.

I'm going to edit my comment. I was under the impression, I don't know why, that each side would be identical. I I like the idea of a map on the other side that's different um for the reasons expressed. So, that makes more sense to me. Um if it's in the budget, I'm I'm in favor of that. So, if there's no more comment, would someone like to make a motion that we are going to uh go with two-sided sign on the new draft design? I I'll move and make a motion that we um consider the the new draft and the new signage, the new verbiage with with um language on both sides.

And then second, I'll second then there's questions. And there's questions. Then there's questions. Then there's questions after after the motion. Okay. So I'll second that. All right. I'll second and and any more comment? Comment. Um, can we make this motion tonight on just this sign and and do a definite two-sided with a map for this sign? And then the next time we want a a sign coming up, we decide, do we want a map on that one, too, or do we want just a one-sided or do we want two two-sided with the same copy on both sides? So, we're deciding this case. This almost sounds like a special case.

It could be an exception to something. So let's move along with this one one and then we come back and either cast a die one way or the other or we retain flexibility to meet the occasion with successful ones. We're not going to have 35 of these are we cost a lot of money. No, again to be clear, we do come back to this commission with each and every marker and we develop it together and that's then I request to amend the the motion uh or to have it recast and that would be uh just as prescribed everything Mr. Law said and just for this sign anyway.

So the motion was I I can formally amend the motion that we're considering now just for this sign here. pass the vote tonight, right? And second, go ahead. More discussion. Sorry. Do you need us to pick the shape at the bottom tonight? Uh, it would help move this process along if this commission did lend its or feedback or recommendation on that. Is the bottom choice the same one that's shown that

I believe so. Just option one or two. So, let's first clear up the first motion about the two-sided sign. So, Steve has made the motion and I have a second motion. So, all in favor of the two-sided one single sign for Route 66 Park. Okay. Black. Yeah. All right. So, all in favor, no oppos. All right. Now, we'll make a motion about the Well, we'll have some discussion about the shapes. It looks like we have basically the the first top one and the second one are the only options. The bottom one looks like they can't use. Is that correct? No, you can use

it says with your latest design, we'd have to eliminate the rounded bottom part. Yeah, the rounded bottom part of the the plaque. Oh, so originally that that plaque shape, you can see the original plaque shape down here. It was rounded on both sides. So now we have to choose between three. Yep. All right. Um, so I guess by a show of hands, who is interested in We'll say one, two, and three from the top to the bottom. Can I ask a question? Does staff have a recommendation? I didn't. Did you? I do not. It will depend on you tonight.

And thank you for asking. Will you get a mockup of it once it's we select it? So, yes, I'll act I'll ask for a final mockup. I would have liked to see an example of all three and how they look with this. I mean, I can sit here and kind of visualize it, but it's not the same thing. So,

well, I could I could certainly they're going to have to supply me with a proof for the Route 66 uh for the content on the marker anyway. So, um, I could ask them if they could supply like the three three markers with the Route 66 content so we can make both of those decisions at the next meeting if that would work for this commission. And if it had does it have to is there a time like are you trying to get this done quicker as quick as possible or Well, what I'm saying is I would fold both of those steps into one meeting. Okay. All right. And there's a consensus tonight. I I mean I don't want to delay things that you're trying to move.

Well, I think people want to see examples. You're saying mockup. Yeah. Because it's kind of hard to decide from that.

I Right. What about is there a potential for an email vote on this on those mockups rather than spending a half hour saying I like two, I like them, I like three. Uh let let me see how quickly Arch Engraving turns them around for us to look at. Um I could certainly send it out to this commission in advance. Um but either way, we're going to have to make a formal action on the design content itself, like once we have a final proof of the marker. So again, my my thought is I can just fold both of those decisions into next meeting um by just having them, you know, do do all three options for us so we can have a look.

All right. I'd say we go on with that. All right. Thank you.

Yes.

I have a comment just as we're in the Route 66 portion of life is that um with the grant stuff and this is kind of like hot off the museum news thing. We don't know what's going to happen in the future with grants. We didn't anticipate what happened earlier this year, but here's the news that happened yesterday. The American Alliance of Museums announced that their grant program is now back on track because the Institute of Museum and Library Services, which is called IMLS, reinstated their program. IMLS is the independent federal agency that supports libraries, archives, and museums in all 50 states and all US territories. They reinstated all federal grants that were withdrawn earlier this year. So maybe I mean I'm just this is just kind of hot off the press stuff as of last night that I don't know. Obviously, none of us know how this is all going to pan out, but maybe grant money might be eased as things go through the court process and things were found that procedures were not followed, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. So that aside, it might be that things are loosening up just a little bit and that maybe some things that we're having to feel constrained about may loose loosen up a little bit. So that was just something that came across my feed as as a museum person and I wanted to let you all know that that happened because that was a really really big deal. Um, that's helping a whole lot of museums and libraries across the country.

Great. That's it. Thank you. All right. All right. We still have the work program update.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Miss Keef and I are going to tag team you tonight. A couple of items. Um, late last night, the Department of Planning received an email from a potential buyer of the Lasal Institute. This particular buyer has a strong intention to retain all of the historic buildings, cemeteries, and gratos. He noted that the previous owner under contract that had submitted the PSA had uh dropped the project and that other owner wanted to remove everything except one cemetery and one gravel. So good news.

Yeah, that's great. If this particular suitor actually can do all of what they've described, it certainly would be preservation project that would retain that retain the existing building and all of the other items. And so that would be a a big win for the city. And what do they plan to do with the building?

He wants to do a conference center in the existing building. wants to do some um green houses in the back up in the area that's underutilized now. There are a couple of other things. The Department of Planning met with the group back in August, so it's been a bit I'd have to review my notes, but as I say, the email was good news, I think, for preservationists across the across the region.

Yes. Also this afternoon, I talked with the Gruie family. As you remember, the Guey family has a contract on the JP Connell property. They intend to close on the property sometime in early January and they have refined their proposal a little bit better. They would like to place the JP Connell House on a 1.5 acre site and ultimately that would be um donated to the city at some point in the future. No timeline. two and a half acres would then be retained by the Guruy family and it would be a buffer so to speak potentially um having some kind of uh housing um housing on individual lots that would complement the JP Connell house. The difficult part of the proposal is the remaining 10 and a quarter acres would seek an R6A resident district zoning and that's the most dense zoning in our zoning ordinance. So I explained to him that obviously the purchase of the property is good news. St. Albvin's properties does not have an interest in its development. It's good news that it's not commercial in nature and I'm not sure what the R6A district does. I explained to him that I would like to present it to you all tonight. He said he'd be glad that I did. So, that's the news I have on that particular property. Some good, some unknown,

and potentially some bad. But yeah, he Mr. Gruie would like to be on the commission's agenda for January 2. I think our next meeting is the 22nd. I'm not 100% sure of the date. So you'll get more information um next month and he is intending to put together a sketch plan. So hopefully we'll have a better idea. It looks like the sales going to move forward. And with that I'm going to turn it over to Miss Steve. Joe I have a question. Yes ma'am. Um, R6A, is that allowed in that area?

Only if the historic land use category, the master plan is endorsed by this commission, adopted by the planning and zoning commission, and then ultimately endorsed and ratified by city council. So, as as designated now, absolutely not. That's what I thought. But but I Yeah. Okay. The only way that could come to fruition and it could be a very difficult discussion is if that the historic land use category is utilized.

Sure. Other than that, it's 2,50% illegal and it could never be used for anything other than a president setting that would have every citizen of this city at city hall's throat. That's just my first blurt on that. There's nothing about a R 6A that far out of town center that could survive the light of day and anybody who'd voted for it would be run out of rail and and feather. Not just you violated the master plan, it's you need to be in jail. R 6A out that far.

Again, all I'm saying is is the historic land use category of the master plan could accommodate that if it goes through all three of those filters, historic preservation commission, planning and zoning commission, and city council, and is endorsed. So again, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but there is an avenue that could accommodate it, but that'd be a lot of voting for it.

That takes three that takes three proofs that our master plan, I didn't say sucks, but uh is really flawed and deficient of all moral purposes. And I'm not speaking as I hate R6A and people who live in them and people who build R6A. No, none of that. It's you can't sell this out there. And and it's a it's kind of surprising that someone with a high school education opposing that and then getting in on the loophole that well insane, but they've said we can do something insane that people vote for.

Well, certainly that's the opinions we'll be seeking from the commissions both historic and planning and zoning. and ultimately the ones that city council will want to listen to versus let's say others. So I can see 300 of those I can see 300 of those R sixAs then coming up in Hollow and and Melrose and it all over and there'd be no legal way we could you did it for them. You we got this property and all these citizens need to live here and um we get sued left and right. we approve the first one. That's just and I'm not a city staff member. Um just

and I'm certainly not advocating for it. All I am saying is there's an avenue. I'd like as I told Mr. I'd like to see what you're talking about.

Saying it over the telephone to me is my imagination went to the worst case scenario. But again, remember we have 400 plus properties on our inventory. Of those 400 properties, not all are created equal. Mary Cliff residents, Lasalo Institute, JP Connell House, River Craig, there's a grouping and hopefully in our historic preservation plan, that grouping will be identified where if you're going to make exceptions, these are the ones you should consider. I'm not saying that someone who owns a log cabin on their property that's restored it isn't historically important, but there are just those icons that deserve the historic land use categories consideration. That's why it was placed in the master plan. Hasn't been utilized, I think, only once and that ended up being denied by the city council. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So, we going on to new business now at this point.

Oh, okay.

Uh, Madame Chair, members of this commission, I'm just going to continue providing updates on the work program. Uh, one update just to keep this group in the loop um and on the pulse. Uh the citizen oversight group uh did meet on November 19th um to discuss the community services element of the master plan uh because we are working on that master plan update. That was the third of the six elements of the plan and the next element to be reviewed is the transportation element. Um and so we'll be meeting on December 9th uh for that. Uh secondly, uh this group has been involved um quite a bit in the partner park master plan process. Um as you know uh budgetary considerations have been affecting projects lately and one of those um effects was the partner park uh construction which had originally been set for 2026 and 2027 and now that's been delayed uh a few more years. Um, so I just wanted to give that update since this group has been involved in that discussion uh quite a bit. But on the good news front, um, and I hope this doesn't count as a public announcement. On the good news front, as you all know, uh, the National, uh, Underground Railroad Network to Freedom, uh, is in fact uh, awarding us with a designation for the Missouri River Crossing at House Ferry. Uh, so we will be nationally recognized as an Underground Railroad site. So,

yay. Yay. Celebrate that good news. All right. And that's all I got. If you have any questions at this time on anything on the work program, Director Vich and I are available to answer them.

So, do you want to move on to new business now? So, the memorial tribute program, the brick dedication, little briefing on how that went. All right, madame chair, members of this commission, uh it was a be beautiful uh November afternoon. It was a Sunday uh where we recognized our champions of history uh Jill Bong Gruben and Linda Hart Camp in memor memoriam. uh Mayor Geritano and our chair Cordneck uh led the proceedings uh uh led the ceremony at Old Pond School. And director Bunich also followed up with some uh I I think uh rather nice words about the memorial tribute program and why it was founded and uh how deserving we have uh or how deserving certain individuals in our community um are of this of this recognition. Uh so after the ceremony uh our recipients placed their bricks. Uh so that is Jill and her husband Dave and Linda's daughters uh placed Linda's brick. Um after which we had a good conversation and camaraderie at Old Pond School and that ended the festivities. It was a very nice event.

I thought so. That's why I threw it up there. That's right. So, at this time, I'd love to open it up to this group or anyone who may have been in attendance. um what your thoughts were on the day, uh what we could maybe do better for next time, uh or just anything you would like to share at this time.

Yeah, I thought it went very well and uh you know, it was a lot of nice summation for everybody and uh nobody got their fingers pinched when they put their bricks in. Um but I know Jill wanted a copy of the script, you know, so I was kind of flattered by that that she wanted a copy of the script. Yes.

Um, as one of the recipients, I was just so blown away by the experience. My husband was, my oldest daughter was able to attend. So, it was really amazing. I will tell you, between that and the National World War II Museum, cuz those things were about 6 weeks apart in my life, that it still hasn't all sunk in. I mean, it was just these are kind of like for someone like me, these are lifetime achievement things. And so, it's just so gratifying. Um, and not just gratifying, but like validating of the work that we do. Um, and just a note uh about it kind of loops in with the National World War II Museum first going there. You haven't gone, go. It's the most amazing thing in the world. Uh from a museum side, much less from the historical society, historic side, uh I learned a lot of techniques and things just by absorbing how they did things there. Uh second, my archival work was validated on a professional level by both the chief librarian and the archavist. So being a na national museum, these people are at the top of the game of their professions. So for them to say, "We couldn't have accepted these collections from the veterans if you hadn't done the work ahead of time because it was too big." And so, um, and they both shared with me that if I ever have any questions about anything archival or how to handle something or how to display something to please call them because they'll help us. And so, this was just a all of these things are cumulative and so it all wrapped up into that day. And so, there's a lot of

emotion and a lot of thanking and a lot of humbleness with it. So, thank everybody. My family thanks you. And that's that's it. Thank you. Yes.

I just say I was out of town. Sounds like it was a great event and sorry I couldn't attend, but also kudos to Wildwood and the department for recognizing these types of things and having these types of engagement activities in the community to recognize that great work. So, kudos to Wildwood as well.

Yes. Anybody else? Yep. All right, we'll move on to the annual work program progress update. Right, Madame Chair, members of this commission, uh typically in the month of December, this department uh presents to you with a proposed work program for the next year. um that gives us an opportunity to consider it, potentially revise it, um and then ultimately make a decision upon it. If not at that December meeting, then the next meeting in January. Uh the reason the department is not presenting to you a proposed work program uh this month is because you may have heard the theme uh that budget priorities are being shifted right now and ultimately that final decision is going to take place at the December city council meeting which is after this one. Uh so until we have that final budget uh decision um we felt it would be prudent to hold off on developing the work program so that we could take that into consideration uh for next year's activities um that we're proposing for for this commission. Um so if you have any questions about about that, we're certainly available to take them at this time. Um otherwise, you'll be seeing a work program from us in January. All right. All right. We're going to uh move on to the appointment of the nomination committee. So, I have the uh I've already reached out to a couple to see if um the following three people would be willing to be on the nominating committee. And I have appointed Kurt Henik and Mr. Steven Larson. And I'd

like to appoint one of our youth, Mr. Raan as one of the uh K nominating committee members. If you're all in agreement with that, you raise your hand. We'll just make sure we all see that. Need a motion or just as I just nominate them as the nominating committee. Yeah. Yeah. The chair the chair can appoint the nomination committee. Um, Madame Chair, if you don't mind, I'm just going to orient some of our newer members to this process.

Uh, so every year, uh, the commission, uh, appoints a nomination committee in the month of December. That nomination committee, uh, recommends, um, individuals for chair, vice chair, and secretary positions. Uh, we then reconvene in January, and that's when this commission holds elections. At that time they can vote on those individuals um individually. They can entertain uh nominations on additional individuals from the floor um or they can vote on the recommendation as a slate. Um so that's typically uh how that's conducted. Uh there's information in your memorandum uh this evening um including who's eligible to be officers and uh the commission's updated bylaws as well. So if you want to take a look um you're certainly welcome to. Um additionally the department would note uh that there are a couple additional housekeeping items for next month and that would be uh the commission may wish to reaffirm or redesate its advisor. Um so that's another consideration and then youth commissioner Ragu Ramen should take a month to consider whether he wishes to serve a third term. uh because if you do uh that would be the prime opportunity for this commission to endorse that as well. Um so you can take some time to think about it if you'd like but let me know by January. All right. Thank you.

Thank you Madam Chair. Madame Chair and members of the commission. As you may recall, approximately two months ago, the department presented to you a request to endorse a moratorum on demolition permits for historic assets that are on the city's inventory. Surprisingly, you all endorsed it without much discussion and that endorsement went to our planning and zoning commission. Planning and zoning commission must act under state statute relative to any moratorum um that may be uh considered and put into place. Planning and zoning commission this past Monday night was December 1st approved the recommendation of the historic preservation commission and endorsed boring their recommendation along with the supporting information from this commission to city council. City Council will receive the reports this coming Monday night, December 8th, along with an ordinance that's been prepared by our city attorney for action. So, congratulations. I think in a large part what we do here as the commission ultimately saves um some of our buildings and some of our assets and certainly I'd like to think maybe slowed down the cell institute process so we could have another crack at trying to preserve it. So if there are any questions regarding the process that's got us here and what will happen Monday night Kee and I'd be glad to answer them at this time. Thank you.

Yeah. All right. Um I don't see any other matters of consideration. Is there anything else to go over? Uh as mentioned in my email earlier, it would be very nice if we could have another end of the year group photo from this commission perhaps in front of the Christmas tree out there. Sure. Um, so if you don't mind after the meeting, stick around and let's take that photo. I think that generally is the only way out of the chamber. So, it's a if you just stop by, that doesn't work.

Our next meeting is Thursday, January 22nd. So, if you want to mark your calendars for that. Um, I don't I'm new to all this, so you'll have to let me get used to all the verbiage. And I appreciate the opportunity to to be uh Madam Chair. All right. Oh, you're dismissed. Hey, Debbie, I had one public service announcement, I guess. Uh, I read that I read that Lasal Institute is hosting an art fair on December 13th. So if anybody I've never been to Little Sal in I make just because I'd like to see the building and poke around there on the property. So December 13th from 10 to 4. Okay. Thank you. Art show.

What's that Robin? Is this needed for me? Okay. No. Is that a Saturday? I think it's a Yeah, probably a Saturday. No. Thanks. I bet I drive by a bit but it won't be there forever. Looks like it's going to be demolished. Right. Like what am I supposed to right there? I thought that was Has it changed?

I'm trying to come up. I guess I maybe I missed his remark. I guess I missed his remark. I don't know where maybe I was looking at the materials. So, you had it covered. I didn't know this. I don't know if you saw that. Good. I I guess I missed him his comment. I must have reading something in here, but Okay, good. No, that's great. Yeah. Yeah, that's what they That's what they were thinking. Well, that's good. That's good. That's been there a long time. Use of that. Yeah. Right. Right. Reserve a little space there. Yeah,

I bet. I bet. Yeah.

Right.

Okay. Yeah. Christmas.

I'll bring it out. Stop walking out that way. All right. Thank you. Nice job. I'm happy

right